I will for a few items. I like my weapon to look really awesome but for the most part I wont care to much about gear. I will just be playing the game and what gear comes, comes.
I myself am so looking forward to spending hours in the explorable mode dungeons hunting for rare drops.
I absolutely loved that in Vanilla WoW in dungeons like BRD, LBRS, DM, and Scholo/Strath.
20-30 minute dungeons are BAD because you are "forced" to run them over and over and over because the expectation to run them over and over is built into the "time to completion" aspect of it.
Bring back the multi-hour crawls of Vanilla WoW days!
Nobody forces you to grind in any game. Even when i'm at a disadvantage, i quit.
To me, it's no fun repating dungeon crawls for insignificant gear drops. But, whatever, guess some players like to be feel better about themselves.
Of course not. What an incredible waste of time. Gw2 is famed for not having grind though; right?
Sometimes I get the feeling that you guys will say anything to justify your love for Gw2. I mean come on... spending hours of your time for gear that just looks different so you can show off or whatever... really... all of you would do that? I'm sure some will but I refuse to believe everyone above will. I'm sure some of you are just doing that "this is part of the game I like, so I must like everything about it" thing.
Its nice to be sure of something, isn't it?
I - for one - am sure that most of the posters above you REALLY don't mind a little grind. I am sure of that because many have given reasonable explanations for WHY they don't mind. You, on the other hand, have only given an unsubstantiated opinion about people you don't know. Refusal to believe something might get you some advancement in a religious sect or such, but it doesn't hold up in an argument. In fact, it makes people less likely to listen to a word you say. :P
... regarding myself ...
Since I am free to grind as much as I want for what I want from the high-level-get-go I'm okay with it.
What I hate is having to grind through one "tier of content" for stuff I don't want just so I can advance to the next higher tier of content because I want to grind something I can only get there. (f.e. WoW classic: "Grind" T1 to be able to grind T2)
I've never actually played WoW (tried my best to stay away from it) but pretty much played every major MMO in the market since 2002, and was appauled when they started to come out with T1 and T2 gear in mmorpgs. Knowing that you are grinding out a certain boring-ass dungeon 3x a week for months on end just so you can grind out the next dungeon to get gear that has marginally better stats was just horrendously stupid to me. It was especially awful when games that copied this formula didnt even bother to make the dungeons interesting- they just put in a mob after mob that just did a ton of damage and had a crazy amount of health, which had the potential to drop a tier item (f2p games, age of conan).
Most memorable games: AoC(Tryanny PvP), RIFT, GW, GW2, Ragnarok Online, Aion, FFXI, FFXIV, Secret World, League of Legends (Silver II rank)
This is one of those disturbing times when I realize how startingly out of touch I am with the mainstream in general.
I am astounded to see over 80% of respondents would grind for cosmetic gear, something I can't even imagine wasting time on.
No wonder so many cash shops sell cosmetic items, something I never would consider purchasing unless it actually did give real benefits/advantage.
And I always wondered who these people were that bought cosmetic items out of cash shops....now I know.
Thats somewhat simplistic...
Liking cosmetic gear is not the same as liking cash shops, though ofc there is cross over.
As a player that hugely enjoys cosmetic rewards, I also am a player that plays to achieve in game and I like to earn everything I get. I don't buy from cash shops.... I hate the model tbh and would much rather pay a sub.
Like I said before, stated progression is just an illusion anyhow when you are in a world that stays relative to your power level. All people have really been ever chasing isprestige, achievement, and change in content.
I myself am so looking forward to spending hours in the explorable mode dungeons hunting for rare drops.
I absolutely loved that in Vanilla WoW in dungeons like BRD, LBRS, DM, and Scholo/Strath.
20-30 minute dungeons are BAD because you are "forced" to run them over and over and over because the expectation to run them over and over is built into the "time to completion" aspect of it.
Bring back the multi-hour crawls of Vanilla WoW days!
Nobody forces you to grind in any game. Even when i'm at a disadvantage, i quit.
To me, it's no fun repating dungeon crawls for insignificant gear drops. But, whatever, guess some players like to be feel better about themselves.
Well if the only two options are "grind for better gear" or "quit" wouldn't that be a textbook case of forcing someone to grind? If they don't intend on quitting, that is.
In many/most themepark MMOs, you hit gear plateus you HAVE to overcome in order to continue progressing your character, and the vast vast majority of the time you are "forced" to grind for drops/badges/crafting mats/money/whatever in order to "gear up" enough to progress to the next stage.
In most themepark MMOs, PvP is an entirely seperate gear grind on top of the PvE gear grind.
So you either "give up" and accept that you won't be able to do content X or be competitive in content Y, or you quit, or you "get in line" and chase the carrot.
GW2 has none of these things, which is an awesome change of pace.
Feels like gear in UO to me - very easy to get what you "need" the rest is just what you want!
So as I said, taking off the preasure to have to get what you need and making it just about what you want feels like a revolution because we haven't really seen such a system ever since WoW made it big.
Just wondering how many of you would invest hours into PvE/PvP to get gear that looks awesome but has the same stats as common equipment. Personally if I saw someone with awesome gear in PvP i would still see them as a huge threat. Not because i know his gear is stronger than mine, its because he has probably played long enough to know how to literally wipe the floor with my ass.
What do you guys think?
Absolutelty yes.
Stated gear progression is just illusionary progression anyhow. All that people have ever been chasing in reality is the prestige, achievement, and change in content.
Anyone locked in to the idea that constantly higher stats = progression just haven't yet seen through the trick.
Certainly. Having done the original/early L2 gear grinds, most everything after that palls by comparison. I probably wouldn't do it for lower levels but max level items, sure. Another 'positive' is that along the way (while grinding) you are always going to get other stuff to sell or give away. I like mindless at times, especially when I am chatting with friends via Vent or TS.
I am the same. I enjoy grind, as long as it is the right kind of grind.
Like any part of these games though it can be designed well or... not so well.
Well if the only two options are "grind for better gear" or "quit" wouldn't that be a textbook case of forcing someone to grind? If they don't intend on quitting, that is.
Well, technically no. There's always "find a game that uses something else for skinner box motivational purposes".
Lots of rewards you can toss into that food hopper for short-term goal addiction. Gear just happens to be the easiest answer (for the devs).
Self-pity imprisons us in the walls of our own self-absorption. The whole world shrinks down to the size of our problem, and the more we dwell on it, the smaller we are and the larger the problem seems to grow.
I plan to grind out legendaries... so, yes, I would grind for cosmetic gear.
I sometimes wonder if people realize that GW2 gear has stats. GW2 gear isn't completely cosmetic and obtaining gear that has the stats you want will be part of the game, too.
I sometimes wonder if people realize that GW2 gear has stats. GW2 gear isn't completely cosmetic and obtaining gear that has the stats you want will be part of the game, too.
I myself am so looking forward to spending hours in the explorable mode dungeons hunting for rare drops.
I absolutely loved that in Vanilla WoW in dungeons like BRD, LBRS, DM, and Scholo/Strath.
20-30 minute dungeons are BAD because you are "forced" to run them over and over and over because the expectation to run them over and over is built into the "time to completion" aspect of it.
Bring back the multi-hour crawls of Vanilla WoW days!
Nobody forces you to grind in any game. Even when i'm at a disadvantage, i quit.
To me, it's no fun repating dungeon crawls for insignificant gear drops. But, whatever, guess some players like to be feel better about themselves.
I dont think the length of the dungeon that made the system bad. Its that people were running the dungeon for X gear off Y mob. So you were no longer playing for fun but how fast you could rerun the same dungeon over and over to get the one item you wanted. I remember one dungeon that the 1/2 point boss had a chance to drop a really nice tanking item. 5 runs in a row when that boss died the tank would drop group and we would be stuck with no tank. A new tank would join and see that boss was dead and would drop group. Was the moment I know WoW was dead to me.
I sometimes wonder if people realize that GW2 gear has stats.
Stats and slot-fillers to chase.
But we're on a forum, there aren't degrees of difference. Everything's only on or off. It's a stereo with a volume knob glued on 10.
Self-pity imprisons us in the walls of our own self-absorption. The whole world shrinks down to the size of our problem, and the more we dwell on it, the smaller we are and the larger the problem seems to grow.
I plan to grind out legendaries... so, yes, I would grind for cosmetic gear.
I sometimes wonder if people realize that GW2 gear has stats. GW2 gear isn't completely cosmetic and obtaining gear that has the stats you want will be part of the game, too.
I think you need to realise that yes GW2 does have stats, but obtaining the right set for you won't be a chore.
Also yes I will go for the armor I find best looking for my character. So I will be grinding in that respect. For the people that are going: Hah see it has grind. It's all optional. Same as it was in GW1.
I doubt I ever grind for gear just for a cosmetic look. I've never been one to sit around in town and show off armor/weapons, it just seems silly to me. I don't log into a game to sit in a city all day to show off gear. I'd much rather be out having fun playing WvsWvsW.
Since the game isn't a raid grind and dungeons can be done with just a group, I can see a lot of people doing the cosmetic gear hunting though. It wouldn't feel like a chore, since it's not raid grinding once or twice a week hoping for that scrap of armor you still need.
I sometimes wonder if people realize that GW2 gear has stats.
Stats and slot-fillers to chase.
But we're on a forum, there aren't degrees of difference. Everything's only on or off. It's a stereo with a volume knob glued on 10.
Which isn't really true, but you enjoy hyperbole as much as any of us, wouldn't be any fun without it.
No doubt there is some refinement of gear, but that's not quite the same as continuous character progression when you come right down to it. (at least from a power perspective)
Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing New Worlds atm
Fools find no pleasure in understanding but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV
Don't just play games, inhabit virtual worlds™
"This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon
Yeah, they're supposed to be special items for the people dedicated enough to get them.
If they were really easy, it would diminish the whole point.
Yeah I saw the pod cast sorry I've lost the link or I would of dropped it in here. There is meant to be a ranger bow which fires Rainbow effect when you shoot it and two warrior swords you combine and you have to do the quest twice to get each before you can combine them and many other cool looking items too.
In answer to OP question, I might be tempted but I'm far to busy making RL coin so I can retire next year and relax to play more games in the future....
I will enjoy NOT grinding for gear! If, and i mean IF, ArenaNet do this right, i might finally have an MMO game i can play without GRIND. An MMO i can play for the sake of playing, not because someone dongles a carrot infront of me.
I played WoW since vanilla, and i PVP'ed in Vanilla, and in BC, and in WotlK, and in Cata. Got some titles on arena etc. I always had to do something i DO NOT want to in order to do have an ability to compete in something i WANT to do months or work later.
In Vanilla, i rolled an ally druid, not knowing how screwed they were at that time, when i understood i'm 0 in PVP and can only heal in PVE, i decided i'll reroll horde rogue just for the sake of pwning ppl in pvp. I couldnt make it. I've quit before i reached 60 because of constant GRIND i had to do to get to level 60 (back in Vanilla, it was SLOW, not like now)
In BC, I rolled another rogue on another realm since i didnt like horde after all.
* First I had to grind the way to 70, do questing and dungeons, stuff i DIDNT WANT to do at all! All because i couldnt PVP in arenas/bg's without that.
* Then i had to grind my honor gear, because without it i would be useless and not competitive at all in arenas. I farmed day and night, on my work i'd stay afk or defend flags like stables on AB, trying to get to the BG's that are free win (back then queues were screwed and you could get reliably 10v2 on EOTS on my BG for ally). It still took me lots of time to get my honor gear in order to at least start trying arena (no resilience - nuked in GCD, gtfo!_
* Then i had to still underperform against people who somehow already had arena gear at my rating, and grind for arena gear
* By the time i had made myself a title in 2v2 and got myself decent amount of arena gear, i'd hate this game so much i quit
In WotlK, I had the same experience.
* First i had to grind my levels AGAIN (something i dont want to do because i'm PVPer) doing stupid quests and basically wasting my time
* Then i had to grind honor AGAIN to get my honor gear, at least it was less intense in WotlK, gear came faster
* Then i also had to grind reputation in order to have enchants for my gear. More PVE quests DAILY, yay how cool is that? Grind grind!
* Then i had to grind PVE RAIDS because they would not have good second ring and offhand available for a PVP rogue through honor! Nor they would have weapons available - even honor ones requried you to have ARENA RATING WTF!? so you have to PVE for weapons! Yay! More grind!
* Then i had to grind for PVP arena weapons because you could only get those with 1800 rating, and if you dont play FOTM comp (which i didnt because my best friend wasnt a class that makes a FOTM setup with my class) this was seriously hard. Especially since for some reason a lot of people on the way there ALREADY HAD THOSE WEAPONS. Grind grind!
* By the time i had grinded myself enchants and gear and became really good, i hated the game so much that i once again got fed up and stopped playing.
Do i have to bore you with describing what happened in CATA? But wait, since i decided i want to change my gameplay and play a healer, i had to grind from 1 to 80 on another class all over again! HOW COOL IS THAT? MORE GRIND!
---------------------------
Bottom line - games today are PLAGUED by grind! PLAGUED! INFESTED! ROTTEN WITH IT!
It seemed like a good idea - an additional incentitive to actually play the game, not only you enjoy the process but you get rewarded for your time and skill as well. It was great, and i loved playing games like Might and Magic, or Elder Scrolls or Diablo I where you not only enjoy playing, but get more and more powerful in the process, and this feeling of increased power was great.
However, games that are online and require you to spend money constantly (monthly subs, or f2p cash shop which is just the same shit) needed to make sure you continue playing since that gave owners more profit. And so, grind became the #1 way to make people play the game longer, and so - pay more money. And so, games adopted this and it is just natural and expected now.
I come to Dota or CS or some RPG back in the old days and i want to play - i can get right in and play. On competitive, on pro level, on whichever level i want, if i have skill.
I come to some modern MMOFPS or LoL or WoW and i want to play - no way, i have to grind first, to gain levels, to unlock weapons and characters and gear, and only THEN i will be allowed to play on the big scale.
Worst of all - it doesnt bother the masses anymore. It doesnt bother people that they have to grind in order to finally do what they want in the game they bought. This is ridiculous! Insane! You wanna PVP in any modern game - you have to get used to grinding first. Wanna PVE for real? SAME THING! But its worser for PVPers since they need to grind PVE usually, while PVErs at least arent forced to grind PVP (although i hear SWTOR made people grind Illum as well no matter if you were PVP or PVE person)
-----------------------------
So, yeah, OH BABY YEAH, I WILL NOT FUCKING GRIND GEAR IN GW2! I SO FUCKING WONT! I SO FUCKING ENJOY EVEN THIKING ABOUT THAT!
A game that alllows me to PVP "with big boys" right from the beginning without any Grind? OH YEAH!
A game that doesnt give a player who played an advantage in PVP just because he played for longer? OH YEAH! (talking about sPVP here)
A game that allows me to PVP in the "final bracket" and never even PVE if i dont want to, getting me to max level solely through PVP? OH YEAH!
A game that generally doesnt emphasize gear over skill? OH YEAH!
If this game also gives me some form of reward, that being cosmetic gear, for enjoying myself in the first place, well i'd gladly take that as a nice bonus!
The reason for me to get gear in games like WoW was to progress throught the content or remain competitive in PvP. I do like cosmetic improvements as well, but the main reason to raid every week was not the gear, but the challenge of beating the content. The gear from raiding came naturally as you progressed. I really did not find few raids a week to be that much of a grind and was perfectly fine, if I did not manage to get the "ultimate" set of gear. I also got bored fairly quickly once we beaten the latest content and usually stopped playing until the next content patch.
"The person who experiences greatness must have a feeling for the myth he is in."
This is one of those disturbing times when I realize how startingly out of touch I am with the mainstream in general.
I am astounded to see over 80% of respondents would grind for cosmetic gear, something I can't even imagine wasting time on.
No wonder so many cash shops sell cosmetic items, something I never would consider purchasing unless it actually did give real benefits/advantage.
Meh, most are just clicking yes because they like GW2.
"I must convince myself I like an aspect of a game,despite the fact I disliked that aspect in other games, because it's in a game I like"
Come level 80, I really really doubt 80% of people (which the poll indicates will be the percentage) will care enough to grind for vanity.
While I also suspect that posters often simply vote for the option that they percieve is in favor of the game they like or against games they dislike (many posters who are anti-GW2 for whatever reason surely voted "no" for this poll as well, which balances out the effect somewhat), I actually think the oposite will prove true once players reach the theoretical "endgame." I think more than 80% will happly participate in the game's "grind" for these "cosmetic" items for a few reasons:
Prestige factor. I agree that character progression, as many have contested in this thread, is a strong driving force for many players. I fall into this category myself. But I suspect that once progression-oriented players get a feel for the many hard-to-get rewards in the game (from full dungeon sets, to full cultural armor, to karma tier sets, to legendaries) and come to realize the accomplishments these items symbolize, they too will be infused with some drive to pursue them.
Never underestimate players' desires to look good. There are games that essentially make their entire living off of skin or outfit cash shop sales. I laughed at my friends for well over a year for buying several League of Legends skins. A few donations of free Riot Points later and I had a few of my own. I've since modestly purchased perhaps 4 or 5 more for my most played champions. Almost everyonewho sees awesome looking gear wants to obtain that gear on some level. The incredible dye system in this game only accentuates this feature.
There is no one boring, grindy task players will be forced to participate in to obtain said prestigious rewards. Basically, there is no "grind." You continue to play the parts of the game you enjoy the most and you will find you are automatically working toward many of these rewards. Eventually obtaining some of them is inevitable.
While I also suspect that posters often simply vote for the option that they percieve is in favor of the game they like or against games they dislike.
You may be searching for "Entrenched Positions". There are, without a doubt, certain posters whose responses you can always predict. Reflexive.
I'm reliably pompous, for example :P
Self-pity imprisons us in the walls of our own self-absorption. The whole world shrinks down to the size of our problem, and the more we dwell on it, the smaller we are and the larger the problem seems to grow.
I voted yes, mainly because I don't grind for +stat gear anymore than I would for cosmetics. The moment I stop having fun, is the moment I stop playing. Which is usually the moment I complete all the raid content in the game 2-3 times and there is nothing left that isn't already trivialized.
At the same time though, I am not going to waste my life grinding for unicorn bows that shoot rainbows. Hopefully there are more choices that fit other tastes than some of the stuff they have released so far to us.
Comments
I will for a few items. I like my weapon to look really awesome but for the most part I wont care to much about gear. I will just be playing the game and what gear comes, comes.
Nobody forces you to grind in any game. Even when i'm at a disadvantage, i quit.
To me, it's no fun repating dungeon crawls for insignificant gear drops. But, whatever, guess some players like to be feel better about themselves.
Yes, i would. its the only thing i would actually grind for, that and the legendary weapon skins lol.
I've never actually played WoW (tried my best to stay away from it) but pretty much played every major MMO in the market since 2002, and was appauled when they started to come out with T1 and T2 gear in mmorpgs. Knowing that you are grinding out a certain boring-ass dungeon 3x a week for months on end just so you can grind out the next dungeon to get gear that has marginally better stats was just horrendously stupid to me. It was especially awful when games that copied this formula didnt even bother to make the dungeons interesting- they just put in a mob after mob that just did a ton of damage and had a crazy amount of health, which had the potential to drop a tier item (f2p games, age of conan).
Most memorable games: AoC(Tryanny PvP), RIFT, GW, GW2, Ragnarok Online, Aion, FFXI, FFXIV, Secret World, League of Legends (Silver II rank)
Thats somewhat simplistic...
Liking cosmetic gear is not the same as liking cash shops, though ofc there is cross over.
As a player that hugely enjoys cosmetic rewards, I also am a player that plays to achieve in game and I like to earn everything I get. I don't buy from cash shops.... I hate the model tbh and would much rather pay a sub.
Like I said before, stated progression is just an illusion anyhow when you are in a world that stays relative to your power level. All people have really been ever chasing is prestige, achievement, and change in content.
Well if the only two options are "grind for better gear" or "quit" wouldn't that be a textbook case of forcing someone to grind? If they don't intend on quitting, that is.
In many/most themepark MMOs, you hit gear plateus you HAVE to overcome in order to continue progressing your character, and the vast vast majority of the time you are "forced" to grind for drops/badges/crafting mats/money/whatever in order to "gear up" enough to progress to the next stage.
In most themepark MMOs, PvP is an entirely seperate gear grind on top of the PvE gear grind.
So you either "give up" and accept that you won't be able to do content X or be competitive in content Y, or you quit, or you "get in line" and chase the carrot.
GW2 has none of these things, which is an awesome change of pace.
Feels like gear in UO to me - very easy to get what you "need" the rest is just what you want!
So as I said, taking off the preasure to have to get what you need and making it just about what you want feels like a revolution because we haven't really seen such a system ever since WoW made it big.
I am the same. I enjoy grind, as long as it is the right kind of grind.
Like any part of these games though it can be designed well or... not so well.
Well, technically no. There's always "find a game that uses something else for skinner box motivational purposes".
Lots of rewards you can toss into that food hopper for short-term goal addiction. Gear just happens to be the easiest answer (for the devs).
Self-pity imprisons us in the walls of our own self-absorption. The whole world shrinks down to the size of our problem, and the more we dwell on it, the smaller we are and the larger the problem seems to grow.
I plan to grind out legendaries... so, yes, I would grind for cosmetic gear.
I sometimes wonder if people realize that GW2 gear has stats. GW2 gear isn't completely cosmetic and obtaining gear that has the stats you want will be part of the game, too.
Very true.
I dont think the length of the dungeon that made the system bad. Its that people were running the dungeon for X gear off Y mob. So you were no longer playing for fun but how fast you could rerun the same dungeon over and over to get the one item you wanted. I remember one dungeon that the 1/2 point boss had a chance to drop a really nice tanking item. 5 runs in a row when that boss died the tank would drop group and we would be stuck with no tank. A new tank would join and see that boss was dead and would drop group. Was the moment I know WoW was dead to me.
I would not mind so long as it isn't grindy! Hmm...
Stats and slot-fillers to chase.
But we're on a forum, there aren't degrees of difference. Everything's only on or off. It's a stereo with a volume knob glued on 10.
Self-pity imprisons us in the walls of our own self-absorption. The whole world shrinks down to the size of our problem, and the more we dwell on it, the smaller we are and the larger the problem seems to grow.
I think you need to realise that yes GW2 does have stats, but obtaining the right set for you won't be a chore.
Also yes I will go for the armor I find best looking for my character. So I will be grinding in that respect. For the people that are going: Hah see it has grind. It's all optional. Same as it was in GW1.
I doubt I ever grind for gear just for a cosmetic look. I've never been one to sit around in town and show off armor/weapons, it just seems silly to me. I don't log into a game to sit in a city all day to show off gear. I'd much rather be out having fun playing WvsWvsW.
Since the game isn't a raid grind and dungeons can be done with just a group, I can see a lot of people doing the cosmetic gear hunting though. It wouldn't feel like a chore, since it's not raid grinding once or twice a week hoping for that scrap of armor you still need.
What happens when you log off your characters????.....
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GFQhfhnjYMk
Dark Age of Camelot
Which isn't really true, but you enjoy hyperbole as much as any of us, wouldn't be any fun without it.
No doubt there is some refinement of gear, but that's not quite the same as continuous character progression when you come right down to it. (at least from a power perspective)
"True friends stab you in the front." | Oscar Wilde
"I need to finish" - Christian Wolff: The Accountant
Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing New Worlds atm
Fools find no pleasure in understanding but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV
Don't just play games, inhabit virtual worlds™
"This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon
Yeah I saw the pod cast sorry I've lost the link or I would of dropped it in here. There is meant to be a ranger bow which fires Rainbow effect when you shoot it and two warrior swords you combine and you have to do the quest twice to get each before you can combine them and many other cool looking items too.
In answer to OP question, I might be tempted but I'm far to busy making RL coin so I can retire next year and relax to play more games in the future....
Bandit
Asbo
Actually, you know what?
I will enjoy NOT grinding for gear! If, and i mean IF, ArenaNet do this right, i might finally have an MMO game i can play without GRIND. An MMO i can play for the sake of playing, not because someone dongles a carrot infront of me.
I played WoW since vanilla, and i PVP'ed in Vanilla, and in BC, and in WotlK, and in Cata. Got some titles on arena etc. I always had to do something i DO NOT want to in order to do have an ability to compete in something i WANT to do months or work later.
In Vanilla, i rolled an ally druid, not knowing how screwed they were at that time, when i understood i'm 0 in PVP and can only heal in PVE, i decided i'll reroll horde rogue just for the sake of pwning ppl in pvp. I couldnt make it. I've quit before i reached 60 because of constant GRIND i had to do to get to level 60 (back in Vanilla, it was SLOW, not like now)
In BC, I rolled another rogue on another realm since i didnt like horde after all.
* First I had to grind the way to 70, do questing and dungeons, stuff i DIDNT WANT to do at all! All because i couldnt PVP in arenas/bg's without that.
* Then i had to grind my honor gear, because without it i would be useless and not competitive at all in arenas. I farmed day and night, on my work i'd stay afk or defend flags like stables on AB, trying to get to the BG's that are free win (back then queues were screwed and you could get reliably 10v2 on EOTS on my BG for ally). It still took me lots of time to get my honor gear in order to at least start trying arena (no resilience - nuked in GCD, gtfo!_
* Then i had to still underperform against people who somehow already had arena gear at my rating, and grind for arena gear
* By the time i had made myself a title in 2v2 and got myself decent amount of arena gear, i'd hate this game so much i quit
In WotlK, I had the same experience.
* First i had to grind my levels AGAIN (something i dont want to do because i'm PVPer) doing stupid quests and basically wasting my time
* Then i had to grind honor AGAIN to get my honor gear, at least it was less intense in WotlK, gear came faster
* Then i also had to grind reputation in order to have enchants for my gear. More PVE quests DAILY, yay how cool is that? Grind grind!
* Then i had to grind PVE RAIDS because they would not have good second ring and offhand available for a PVP rogue through honor! Nor they would have weapons available - even honor ones requried you to have ARENA RATING WTF!? so you have to PVE for weapons! Yay! More grind!
* Then i had to grind for PVP arena weapons because you could only get those with 1800 rating, and if you dont play FOTM comp (which i didnt because my best friend wasnt a class that makes a FOTM setup with my class) this was seriously hard. Especially since for some reason a lot of people on the way there ALREADY HAD THOSE WEAPONS. Grind grind!
* By the time i had grinded myself enchants and gear and became really good, i hated the game so much that i once again got fed up and stopped playing.
Do i have to bore you with describing what happened in CATA? But wait, since i decided i want to change my gameplay and play a healer, i had to grind from 1 to 80 on another class all over again! HOW COOL IS THAT? MORE GRIND!
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Bottom line - games today are PLAGUED by grind! PLAGUED! INFESTED! ROTTEN WITH IT!
It seemed like a good idea - an additional incentitive to actually play the game, not only you enjoy the process but you get rewarded for your time and skill as well. It was great, and i loved playing games like Might and Magic, or Elder Scrolls or Diablo I where you not only enjoy playing, but get more and more powerful in the process, and this feeling of increased power was great.
However, games that are online and require you to spend money constantly (monthly subs, or f2p cash shop which is just the same shit) needed to make sure you continue playing since that gave owners more profit. And so, grind became the #1 way to make people play the game longer, and so - pay more money. And so, games adopted this and it is just natural and expected now.
I come to Dota or CS or some RPG back in the old days and i want to play - i can get right in and play. On competitive, on pro level, on whichever level i want, if i have skill.
I come to some modern MMOFPS or LoL or WoW and i want to play - no way, i have to grind first, to gain levels, to unlock weapons and characters and gear, and only THEN i will be allowed to play on the big scale.
Worst of all - it doesnt bother the masses anymore. It doesnt bother people that they have to grind in order to finally do what they want in the game they bought. This is ridiculous! Insane! You wanna PVP in any modern game - you have to get used to grinding first. Wanna PVE for real? SAME THING! But its worser for PVPers since they need to grind PVE usually, while PVErs at least arent forced to grind PVP (although i hear SWTOR made people grind Illum as well no matter if you were PVP or PVE person)
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So, yeah, OH BABY YEAH, I WILL NOT FUCKING GRIND GEAR IN GW2! I SO FUCKING WONT! I SO FUCKING ENJOY EVEN THIKING ABOUT THAT!
A game that alllows me to PVP "with big boys" right from the beginning without any Grind? OH YEAH!
A game that doesnt give a player who played an advantage in PVP just because he played for longer? OH YEAH! (talking about sPVP here)
A game that allows me to PVP in the "final bracket" and never even PVE if i dont want to, getting me to max level solely through PVP? OH YEAH!
A game that generally doesnt emphasize gear over skill? OH YEAH!
If this game also gives me some form of reward, that being cosmetic gear, for enjoying myself in the first place, well i'd gladly take that as a nice bonus!
Mine goes to 11.
If the gear fits with the look I'm trying to achieve better than what I already have, yes.
The reason for me to get gear in games like WoW was to progress throught the content or remain competitive in PvP. I do like cosmetic improvements as well, but the main reason to raid every week was not the gear, but the challenge of beating the content. The gear from raiding came naturally as you progressed. I really did not find few raids a week to be that much of a grind and was perfectly fine, if I did not manage to get the "ultimate" set of gear. I also got bored fairly quickly once we beaten the latest content and usually stopped playing until the next content patch.
"The person who experiences greatness must have a feeling for the myth he is in."
While I also suspect that posters often simply vote for the option that they percieve is in favor of the game they like or against games they dislike (many posters who are anti-GW2 for whatever reason surely voted "no" for this poll as well, which balances out the effect somewhat), I actually think the oposite will prove true once players reach the theoretical "endgame." I think more than 80% will happly participate in the game's "grind" for these "cosmetic" items for a few reasons:
You may be searching for "Entrenched Positions". There are, without a doubt, certain posters whose responses you can always predict. Reflexive.
I'm reliably pompous, for example :P
Self-pity imprisons us in the walls of our own self-absorption. The whole world shrinks down to the size of our problem, and the more we dwell on it, the smaller we are and the larger the problem seems to grow.
Yes... I like to pimp my toons!
I voted yes, mainly because I don't grind for +stat gear anymore than I would for cosmetics. The moment I stop having fun, is the moment I stop playing. Which is usually the moment I complete all the raid content in the game 2-3 times and there is nothing left that isn't already trivialized.
At the same time though, I am not going to waste my life grinding for unicorn bows that shoot rainbows. Hopefully there are more choices that fit other tastes than some of the stuff they have released so far to us.