Maybe it's just me, but I don't know why everyone is happy about the demise of the holy trinity. I personally see it as a good thing, it gives me a sense of purpose and role in an MMO.
I know that a lot of people will disagree, what with the release of the second coming of christ (GW2). Tbh, i really think thats what has put me off GW2, i need to know that im needed and not just an interchangeable part of a machine.
So, what do you guys think? Pro-trinity or not?
/Levi
I think you'll find that once people really understand that dps zergs going pew pew pew are boring they'll understand what you're getting at here.
I predict the game that finally kills wow will have a trinity.
I myself would like to go the other way, give me Tank, heals, dps, control, and support, actually if you make a class dedicated to control you could do away with tanking while still keeping solid group mechanics, but I'd like there to be 4-5 roles not three.
This i can get behind. Remember in CoH they had debuff classes, wouldnt mind seeing more roles that add an extra twist.
There are millions of people that genuinely enjoy tanking and healing. For that reason alone the trinity will never actually die.
We may see different reincarnations of it, but to say it's outright dying is simply oblivious to how different people enjoy their gaming.
I know my gf, among others, genuinely enjoys playing a healer. When it comes to PvP, I often find that playing a healer offers a more dynamic experience than dps roles.
Maybe it's just me, but I don't know why everyone is happy about the demise of the holy trinity. I personally see it as a good thing, it gives me a sense of purpose and role in an MMO.
I know that a lot of people will disagree, what with the release of the second coming of christ (GW2). Tbh, i really think thats what has put me off GW2, i need to know that im needed and not just an interchangeable part of a machine.
So, what do you guys think? Pro-trinity or not?
/Levi
I think you'll find that once people really understand that dps zergs going pew pew pew are boring they'll understand what you're getting at here.
I predict the game that finally kills wow will have a trinity.
I myself would like to go the other way, give me Tank, heals, dps, control, and support, actually if you make a class dedicated to control you could do away with tanking while still keeping solid group mechanics, but I'd like there to be 4-5 roles not three.
In big groups yes it's zerg zerg zerg but when your in a smaller group on focused encounters (dungeons) then thats where the lack of the holy trinity will shine, as in why people don't want it the trinity and want how GW2 combat is designed.
The Holy Trinity is designed for a controled combat enviroment and good for beginners. Once you progressed past that stage is when I think people will want a break away from the trinity and not feel restricted.
Actually DDO had that controller which I think is retarded. Makes encounters way to simplistic and forces people to take certain classes. Which is why I hate the trinity as if forces a certain make-up instead of relying on players skill and strengths to overcome an encounter and that any class can fulfill multiple roles as needed.
Maybe it's just me, but I don't know why everyone is happy about the demise of the holy trinity. I personally see it as a good thing, it gives me a sense of purpose and role in an MMO.
I know that a lot of people will disagree, what with the release of the second coming of christ (GW2). Tbh, i really think thats what has put me off GW2, i need to know that im needed and not just an interchangeable part of a machine.
So, what do you guys think? Pro-trinity or not?
/Levi
I think you'll find that once people really understand that dps zergs going pew pew pew are boring they'll understand what you're getting at here.
I predict the game that finally kills wow will have a trinity.
I myself would like to go the other way, give me Tank, heals, dps, control, and support, actually if you make a class dedicated to control you could do away with tanking while still keeping solid group mechanics, but I'd like there to be 4-5 roles not three.
In big groups yes it's zerg zerg zerg but when your in a smaller group on focused encounters (dungeons) then thats where the lack of the holy trinity will shine, as in why people don't want it the trinity and want how GW2 combat is designed.
The Holy Trinity is designed for a controled combat enviroment and good for beginners. Once you progressed past that stage is when I think people will want a break away from the trinity and not feel restricted.
Actually DDO had that controller which I think is retarded. Makes encounters way to simplistic and forces people to take certain classes.
Oh come on, acting like everyone being self-sufficient is somehow more advanced gaming is simply ridiculous. Being dependent on others for something is much more advanced than "Ok, I can tank, heal myself, CC, and dps all on my own - You died? No problem, let me go over and rez you while the next player uses his defensive cooldowns to tank for a few seconds.".
I'm sorry, but nothing I've seen in the group play in GW2 has shown any indications of being more advanced than trinity group play. You're talking about complete interdepedence vs co-operation. One requires a couple of individuals to take care of themselves well enough, the other focus on the whole group to look after each other.
Maybe it's just me, but I don't know why everyone is happy about the demise of the holy trinity. I personally see it as a good thing, it gives me a sense of purpose and role in an MMO.
I know that a lot of people will disagree, what with the release of the second coming of christ (GW2). Tbh, i really think thats what has put me off GW2, i need to know that im needed and not just an interchangeable part of a machine.
So, what do you guys think? Pro-trinity or not?
/Levi
I think you'll find that once people really understand that dps zergs going pew pew pew are boring they'll understand what you're getting at here.
I predict the game that finally kills wow will have a trinity.
I myself would like to go the other way, give me Tank, heals, dps, control, and support, actually if you make a class dedicated to control you could do away with tanking while still keeping solid group mechanics, but I'd like there to be 4-5 roles not three.
In big groups yes it's zerg zerg zerg but when your in a smaller group on focused encounters (dungeons) then thats where the lack of the holy trinity will shine, as in why people don't want it the trinity and want how GW2 combat is designed.
The Holy Trinity is designed for a controled combat enviroment and good for beginners. Once you progressed past that stage is when I think people will want a break away from the trinity and not feel restricted.
Actually DDO had that controller which I think is retarded. Makes encounters way to simplistic and forces people to take certain classes. Which is why I hate the trinity as if forces a certain make-up instead of relying on players skill and strengths to overcome an encounter and that any class can fulfill multiple roles as needed.
Worked great in CoX. Really, it all depends on how difficult and engaging you make the content. 8 utility dps classes isn't ground breaking, its regression and hyper unoriginal.
Oh come on, acting like everyone being self-sufficient is somehow more advanced gaming is simply ridiculous. Being dependent on others for something is much more advanced than "Ok, I can tank, heal myself, CC, and dps all on my own - You died? No problem, let me go over and rez you while the next player uses his defensive cooldowns to tank for a few seconds.".
I'm sorry, but nothing I've seen in the group play in GW2 has shown any indications of being more advanced than trinity group play. You're talking about complete interdepedence vs co-operation. One requires a couple of individuals to take care of themselves well enough, the other focus on the whole group to look after each other.
Show me where I was speaking complete interdepence. The Hoiy Trinity is a highly pigeonholed concept. GW2 allows tremendous levevway and options and playstyle. How is "okay wait a few secs guys for me to grab the mobs attention then go into your rotations" so much more advanced compared to a mechanic where each class has the tools to be etremely effective and where a lot more empasis on personal skill takes place and where deck building is a very strong concept?
I think the whole "Demise" of the trinity is nothing more than a PR stunt. Personally I enjoy the Holy Trinity, was a tank for six out of the eight years I've played MMOs. Enjoyed being able to say "I tanked the Lich King."
I wouldn't mind there being an interesting take on it though, like a warrior with mage abilities or a priest with rogue abilities. But that's just me.
You know what's fun about chaos? I do, but I won't tell.
Oh come on, acting like everyone being self-sufficient is somehow more advanced gaming is simply ridiculous. Being dependent on others for something is much more advanced than "Ok, I can tank, heal myself, CC, and dps all on my own - You died? No problem, let me go over and rez you while the next player uses his defensive cooldowns to tank for a few seconds.".
I'm sorry, but nothing I've seen in the group play in GW2 has shown any indications of being more advanced than trinity group play. You're talking about complete interdepedence vs co-operation. One requires a couple of individuals to take care of themselves well enough, the other focus on the whole group to look after each other.
Show me where I was speaking complete interdepence. The Hoiy Trinity is a highly pigeonholed concept. GW2 allows tremendous levevway and options and playstyle. How is "okay wait a few secs guys for me to grab the mobs attention then go into your rotations" so much more advanced compared to a mechanic where each class has the tools to be etremely effective and where a lot more empasis on personal skill takes place and where deck building is a very strong concept?
I am going to find out shortly, but if dungeon runs are just 4 dudes running in and dpsing everything to death while spaming dodge and pew pew pew, in other words if its just five players cooperating, not codepending, then this game will be a huge fail and will ultimately bore me,,,,,,,,,and many other people. As I've said, I am going to give it a chance, but the potential for fail here is staggering....at least as big as the upside.
I am going to find out shortly, but if dungeon runs are just 4 dudes running in and dpsing everything to death while spaming dodge and pew pew pew, in other words if its just five players cooperating, not codepending, then this game will be a huge fail and will ultimately bore me,,,,,,,,,and many other people. As I've said, I am going to give it a chance, but the potential for fail here is staggering....at least as big as the upside.
Those who zerged into dugneons n DPSed DPSed DPSed are the ones that failed miserablely over n over again. TB already pointed it out and ANet has stated that dungeons will be a real challenge and that teamwork is crucial. TB said that you have to plan things out and communicate with the team. This is something I found lacking in the Holy Trinity system typically. While fights can be complicated most times it's the tank runs in, DPS wait a few secs then goes pew pewing, healer spams heals while everyone stands out of the fire. GW2 system puts a whole lot more emphasis on individuals as a whole unlike the Holy Trinity where the few good ones pull the rest around.
Originally posted by teakbois Demise of the trinity? With the exception of a brief period in TBC Heroics, the Trinity has been dead since 2004.
Its now a Holy Duality.
enrage timers are fun ... /srsnod
im looking at you swtor.
LFD tools are great for cramming people into content, but quality > quantity. I am, usually on the sandbox .. more "hardcore" side of things, but I also do just want to have fun. So lighten up already
Originally posted by Ambros123 Originally posted by KingGatorOriginally posted by Ambros123Originally posted by helthrosOriginally posted by Ambros123Originally posted by KingGatorOriginally posted by Leviano
I am going to find out shortly, but if dungeon runs are just 4 dudes running in and dpsing everything to death while spaming dodge and pew pew pew, in other words if its just five players cooperating, not codepending, then this game will be a huge fail and will ultimately bore me,,,,,,,,,and many other people. As I've said, I am going to give it a chance, but the potential for fail here is staggering....at least as big as the upside.Those who zerged into dugneons n DPSed DPSed DPSed are the ones that failed miserablely over n over again. TB already pointed it out and ANet has stated that dungeons will be a real challenge and that teamwork is crucial. TB said that you have to plan things out and communicate with the team. This is something I found lacking in the Holy Trinity system typically. While fights can be complicated most times it's the tank runs in, DPS wait a few secs then goes pew pewing, healer spams heals while everyone stands out of the fire. GW2 system puts a whole lot more emphasis on individuals as a whole unlike the Holy Trinity where the few good ones pull the rest around.
how was it lacking in trinity games? good trinity games at least? nothing like 4 druids rezzing the same guy or the OT taunting 1 second after the tank uses def cooldowns. yes there are tons of crappy encounters out there that my cat could tank .. that doesn't make the trinity a bad thing. yes 5 man instances have become free gear fests. that doesnt mean you could beat heroic shadowlabs with a bunch of mouthbreathers for dps.
the games are catering to the exact kind of people you are saying the anti-trinity was designed to weed out. based on the face roll that is leveling sofar .. I doubt this game will play out like you think it will.
the trinity is not the reason that only the tank and healer really matter. the genre catering to instant gratification console gamers is the reason.
LFD tools are great for cramming people into content, but quality > quantity. I am, usually on the sandbox .. more "hardcore" side of things, but I also do just want to have fun. So lighten up already
Originally posted by KingGatorI myself would like to go the other way, give me Tank, heals, dps, control, and support, actually if you make a class dedicated to control you could do away with tanking while still keeping solid group mechanics, but I'd like there to be 4-5 roles not three.
Last this model was used was during Burning Crusade. That was the last game I can think of to use meaningful crowd control or support. Rift has support to an extent, but they completely half assed it and support hurts you in 98% of the games content.
Maybe it's just me, but I don't know why everyone is happy about the demise of the holy trinity. I personally see it as a good thing, it gives me a sense of purpose and role in an MMO.
I know that a lot of people will disagree, what with the release of the second coming of christ (GW2). Tbh, i really think thats what has put me off GW2, i need to know that im needed and not just an interchangeable part of a machine.
So, what do you guys think? Pro-trinity or not?
/Levi
I think you'll find that once people really understand that dps zergs going pew pew pew are boring they'll understand what you're getting at here.
Not if you have to stay alive with defensive abilities, and mobs can go against anyone.
Last this model was used was during Burning Crusade. That was the last game I can think of to use meaningful crowd control or support. Rift has support to an extent, but they completely half assed it and support hurts you in 98% of the games content.
Yeah Support is definitely something I'd like to see done well, mostly because it keeps all of combat active. Really all you need is enough to accelerate the other DPS by at least enough that in an average party an average (not spectacular, not weaksauce) Support player is contributing at least 1.5 players worth of DPS to the party. I'm playing RIFT lately but haven't really dug into analyzing class performance -- do support characters not achieve this when you sum up their personal contribution plus group benefits (they'd really only need to contribute 1.0 players worth of DPS to break even, of course.) And well...non-DPS contribution is also valuable but less quantifiably justified.
As for CC, I think it's a functional role worth having, but I do see the downside in that it makes fights less exciting by turning mobs off. Particularly when overdone ("CC 4 mobs, kill the only active one" wasn't the height of exciting combat with BC.) Seems like you could improve upon the situation and make it a dedicated role if you just limited CC with some better rules though. It wouldn't be hard to make it very lucrative to bring one CC'er but feel like a second one was overkill.
I also like CoH's usage of CC as an alternative to tanking. Your group needed a minimum amount of mitigation and/or control, but you could mix it up freely without too much issue (a pair of Controllers I think mitigated damage better than a single tank.) The enemy's alpha strike tended to be the tough thing to deal with though, as (IIRC) only certain Controller builds mitigated or limited enemy damage enough for softies to safely eat the alpha.
"What is truly revealing is his implication that believing something to be true is the same as it being true. [continue]" -John Oliver
Originally posted by Axehilt Originally posted by teakboisLike the original Holy Trinity was? Holy Trinity = Warrior(Tank) Cleric(Healer) Enchanter(Crowd Control)Last this model was used was during Burning Crusade. That was the last game I can think of to use meaningful crowd control or support. Rift has support to an extent, but they completely half assed it and support hurts you in 98% of the games content.
Yeah Support is definitely something I'd like to see done well, mostly because it keeps all of combat active. Really all you need is enough to accelerate the other DPS by at least enough that in an average party an average (not spectacular, not weaksauce) Support player is contributing at least 1.5 players worth of DPS to the party. I'm playing RIFT lately but haven't really dug into analyzing class performance -- do support characters not achieve this when you sum up their personal contribution plus group benefits (they'd really only need to contribute 1.0 players worth of DPS to break even, of course.) And well...non-DPS contribution is also valuable but less quantifiably justified.
As for CC, I think it's a functional role worth having, but I do see the downside in that it makes fights less exciting by turning mobs off. Particularly when overdone ("CC 4 mobs, kill the only active one" wasn't the height of exciting combat with BC.) Seems like you could improve upon the situation and make it a dedicated role if you just limited CC with some better rules though. It wouldn't be hard to make it very lucrative to bring one CC'er but feel like a second one was overkill.
I also like CoH's usage of CC as an alternative to tanking. Your group needed a minimum amount of mitigation and/or control, but you could mix it up freely without too much issue (a pair of Controllers I think mitigated damage better than a single tank.) The enemy's alpha strike tended to be the tough thing to deal with though, as (IIRC) only certain Controller builds mitigated or limited enemy damage enough for softies to safely eat the alpha.
bard definitely did when I played it. didnt raid though, but in 5 mans they were great to have.
LFD tools are great for cramming people into content, but quality > quantity. I am, usually on the sandbox .. more "hardcore" side of things, but I also do just want to have fun. So lighten up already
There are millions of people that genuinely enjoy tanking and healing. For that reason alone the trinity will never actually die.
We may see different reincarnations of it, but to say it's outright dying is simply oblivious to how different people enjoy their gaming.
I know my gf, among others, genuinely enjoys playing a healer. When it comes to PvP, I often find that playing a healer offers a more dynamic experience than dps roles.
No one enjoys playing a healer. I do not believe that a person "enjoys" clicking on 2 dimensional boxes on the corner of the screen watching green bars moving left and right.
Your GF, among others do not enjoy healing at all.
What they enjoy is helping thier friends and being there for them in time of need. They enjoy feeling needed. They have a very strong sense of companionship. They want to support others. Like a spoke on a wheel.
The healing mechanic as designed in WoW is a chore. It's an insult to human cognitive capabilities.
There are millions of people that genuinely enjoy tanking and healing. For that reason alone the trinity will never actually die.
We may see different reincarnations of it, but to say it's outright dying is simply oblivious to how different people enjoy their gaming.
I know my gf, among others, genuinely enjoys playing a healer. When it comes to PvP, I often find that playing a healer offers a more dynamic experience than dps roles.
No one enjoys playing a healer. I do not believe that a person "enjoys" clicking on 2 dimensional boxes on the corner of the screen watching green bars moving left and right.
Your GF, among others do not enjoy healing at all.
What they enjoy is helping thier friends and being there for them in time of need. They enjoy feeling needed. They have a very strong sense of companionship. They want to support others. Like a spoke on a wheel.
The healing mechanic as designed in WoW is a chore. It's an insult to human cognitive capabilities.
"no one" is a strong phrase. I highly doubt you have any evidence to back it up.
If people enjoy slot mechnics (which is much simpler than WOW healing mechanics), why would not a single soul enjoy some simple healing mechanics?
Personally i don't heal .. but i wouldn't rule out others who actually enjoy the simple whack-the-mole mechanics.
There are millions of people that genuinely enjoy tanking and healing. For that reason alone the trinity will never actually die.
We may see different reincarnations of it, but to say it's outright dying is simply oblivious to how different people enjoy their gaming.
I know my gf, among others, genuinely enjoys playing a healer. When it comes to PvP, I often find that playing a healer offers a more dynamic experience than dps roles.
No one enjoys playing a healer. I do not believe that a person "enjoys" clicking on 2 dimensional boxes on the corner of the screen watching green bars moving left and right.
Your GF, among others do not enjoy healing at all.
What they enjoy is helping thier friends and being there for them in time of need. They enjoy feeling needed. They have a very strong sense of companionship. They want to support others. Like a spoke on a wheel.
The healing mechanic as designed in WoW is a chore. It's an insult to human cognitive capabilities.
"no one" is a strong phrase. I highly doubt you have any evidence to back it up.
If people enjoy slot mechnics (which is much simpler than WOW healing mechanics), why would not a single soul enjoy some simple healing mechanics?
Personally i don't heal .. but i wouldn't rule out others who actually enjoy the simple whack-the-mole mechanics.
there are lots of people that enjoy healing. In fact, in most games tanks seem to be the rarest component. Females particularly seem to enjoy healing (or support) roles.
There are millions of people that genuinely enjoy tanking and healing. For that reason alone the trinity will never actually die.
We may see different reincarnations of it, but to say it's outright dying is simply oblivious to how different people enjoy their gaming.
I know my gf, among others, genuinely enjoys playing a healer. When it comes to PvP, I often find that playing a healer offers a more dynamic experience than dps roles.
No one enjoys playing a healer. I do not believe that a person "enjoys" clicking on 2 dimensional boxes on the corner of the screen watching green bars moving left and right.
Your GF, among others do not enjoy healing at all.
What they enjoy is helping thier friends and being there for them in time of need. They enjoy feeling needed. They have a very strong sense of companionship. They want to support others. Like a spoke on a wheel.
The healing mechanic as designed in WoW is a chore. It's an insult to human cognitive capabilities.
"no one" is a strong phrase. I highly doubt you have any evidence to back it up.
If people enjoy slot mechnics (which is much simpler than WOW healing mechanics), why would not a single soul enjoy some simple healing mechanics?
Personally i don't heal .. but i wouldn't rule out others who actually enjoy the simple whack-the-mole mechanics.
there are lots of people that enjoy healing. In fact, in most games tanks seem to be the rarest component. Females particularly seem to enjoy healing (or support) roles.
There are millions of people that genuinely enjoy tanking and healing. For that reason alone the trinity will never actually die.
We may see different reincarnations of it, but to say it's outright dying is simply oblivious to how different people enjoy their gaming.
I know my gf, among others, genuinely enjoys playing a healer. When it comes to PvP, I often find that playing a healer offers a more dynamic experience than dps roles.
No one enjoys playing a healer. I do not believe that a person "enjoys" clicking on 2 dimensional boxes on the corner of the screen watching green bars moving left and right.
Your GF, among others do not enjoy healing at all.
What they enjoy is helping thier friends and being there for them in time of need. They enjoy feeling needed. They have a very strong sense of companionship. They want to support others. Like a spoke on a wheel.
The healing mechanic as designed in WoW is a chore. It's an insult to human cognitive capabilities.
"no one" is a strong phrase. I highly doubt you have any evidence to back it up.
If people enjoy slot mechnics (which is much simpler than WOW healing mechanics), why would not a single soul enjoy some simple healing mechanics?
Personally i don't heal .. but i wouldn't rule out others who actually enjoy the simple whack-the-mole mechanics.
I doubt it very strongly. The human brain is not designed for continuous repetitive chores. If the subject in question engages in this repetitive chore continously then I believe they do it because they have convinced themselves that they have to.
There are millions of people that genuinely enjoy tanking and healing. For that reason alone the trinity will never actually die.
We may see different reincarnations of it, but to say it's outright dying is simply oblivious to how different people enjoy their gaming.
I know my gf, among others, genuinely enjoys playing a healer. When it comes to PvP, I often find that playing a healer offers a more dynamic experience than dps roles.
No one enjoys playing a healer. I do not believe that a person "enjoys" clicking on 2 dimensional boxes on the corner of the screen watching green bars moving left and right.
Your GF, among others do not enjoy healing at all.
What they enjoy is helping thier friends and being there for them in time of need. They enjoy feeling needed. They have a very strong sense of companionship. They want to support others. Like a spoke on a wheel.
The healing mechanic as designed in WoW is a chore. It's an insult to human cognitive capabilities.
"no one" is a strong phrase. I highly doubt you have any evidence to back it up.
If people enjoy slot mechnics (which is much simpler than WOW healing mechanics), why would not a single soul enjoy some simple healing mechanics?
Personally i don't heal .. but i wouldn't rule out others who actually enjoy the simple whack-the-mole mechanics.
I doubt it very strongly. The human brain is not designed for continuous repetitive chores. If the subject in question engages in this repetitive chore continously then I believe they do it because they have convinced themselves that they have to.
I would say that is completely 100% wrong. The human brain is most definately designed for repetitive tasks. Whole classes are devoted to this. Schema theory, long term memory theory... are all based on the fact that the human brain purposefully builds patterns in order to react to similar/same events quicker and easier than before.
We may find it boring, but no doubt the brain is definately designed to continous and repetitve tasks.
Just because you don't like it doesn't mean it is bad.
Comments
This i can get behind. Remember in CoH they had debuff classes, wouldnt mind seeing more roles that add an extra twist.
There are millions of people that genuinely enjoy tanking and healing. For that reason alone the trinity will never actually die.
We may see different reincarnations of it, but to say it's outright dying is simply oblivious to how different people enjoy their gaming.
I know my gf, among others, genuinely enjoys playing a healer. When it comes to PvP, I often find that playing a healer offers a more dynamic experience than dps roles.
In big groups yes it's zerg zerg zerg but when your in a smaller group on focused encounters (dungeons) then thats where the lack of the holy trinity will shine, as in why people don't want it the trinity and want how GW2 combat is designed.
The Holy Trinity is designed for a controled combat enviroment and good for beginners. Once you progressed past that stage is when I think people will want a break away from the trinity and not feel restricted.
Actually DDO had that controller which I think is retarded. Makes encounters way to simplistic and forces people to take certain classes. Which is why I hate the trinity as if forces a certain make-up instead of relying on players skill and strengths to overcome an encounter and that any class can fulfill multiple roles as needed.
Oh come on, acting like everyone being self-sufficient is somehow more advanced gaming is simply ridiculous. Being dependent on others for something is much more advanced than "Ok, I can tank, heal myself, CC, and dps all on my own - You died? No problem, let me go over and rez you while the next player uses his defensive cooldowns to tank for a few seconds.".
I'm sorry, but nothing I've seen in the group play in GW2 has shown any indications of being more advanced than trinity group play. You're talking about complete interdepedence vs co-operation. One requires a couple of individuals to take care of themselves well enough, the other focus on the whole group to look after each other.
Worked great in CoX. Really, it all depends on how difficult and engaging you make the content. 8 utility dps classes isn't ground breaking, its regression and hyper unoriginal.
I agree completely with the OP.
Show me where I was speaking complete interdepence. The Hoiy Trinity is a highly pigeonholed concept. GW2 allows tremendous levevway and options and playstyle. How is "okay wait a few secs guys for me to grab the mobs attention then go into your rotations" so much more advanced compared to a mechanic where each class has the tools to be etremely effective and where a lot more empasis on personal skill takes place and where deck building is a very strong concept?
I think the whole "Demise" of the trinity is nothing more than a PR stunt. Personally I enjoy the Holy Trinity, was a tank for six out of the eight years I've played MMOs. Enjoyed being able to say "I tanked the Lich King."
I wouldn't mind there being an interesting take on it though, like a warrior with mage abilities or a priest with rogue abilities. But that's just me.
You know what's fun about chaos? I do, but I won't tell.
I am going to find out shortly, but if dungeon runs are just 4 dudes running in and dpsing everything to death while spaming dodge and pew pew pew, in other words if its just five players cooperating, not codepending, then this game will be a huge fail and will ultimately bore me,,,,,,,,,and many other people. As I've said, I am going to give it a chance, but the potential for fail here is staggering....at least as big as the upside.
Demise of the trinity? With the exception of a brief period in TBC Heroics, the Trinity has been dead since 2004.
Its now a Holy Duality.
Those who zerged into dugneons n DPSed DPSed DPSed are the ones that failed miserablely over n over again. TB already pointed it out and ANet has stated that dungeons will be a real challenge and that teamwork is crucial. TB said that you have to plan things out and communicate with the team. This is something I found lacking in the Holy Trinity system typically. While fights can be complicated most times it's the tank runs in, DPS wait a few secs then goes pew pewing, healer spams heals while everyone stands out of the fire. GW2 system puts a whole lot more emphasis on individuals as a whole unlike the Holy Trinity where the few good ones pull the rest around.
enrage timers are fun ... /srsnod
im looking at you swtor.
LFD tools are great for cramming people into content, but quality > quantity.
I am, usually on the sandbox .. more "hardcore" side of things, but I also do just want to have fun. So lighten up already
I am going to find out shortly, but if dungeon runs are just 4 dudes running in and dpsing everything to death while spaming dodge and pew pew pew, in other words if its just five players cooperating, not codepending, then this game will be a huge fail and will ultimately bore me,,,,,,,,,and many other people. As I've said, I am going to give it a chance, but the potential for fail here is staggering....at least as big as the upside.
Those who zerged into dugneons n DPSed DPSed DPSed are the ones that failed miserablely over n over again. TB already pointed it out and ANet has stated that dungeons will be a real challenge and that teamwork is crucial. TB said that you have to plan things out and communicate with the team. This is something I found lacking in the Holy Trinity system typically. While fights can be complicated most times it's the tank runs in, DPS wait a few secs then goes pew pewing, healer spams heals while everyone stands out of the fire. GW2 system puts a whole lot more emphasis on individuals as a whole unlike the Holy Trinity where the few good ones pull the rest around.
how was it lacking in trinity games? good trinity games at least? nothing like 4 druids rezzing the same guy or the OT taunting 1 second after the tank uses def cooldowns. yes there are tons of crappy encounters out there that my cat could tank .. that doesn't make the trinity a bad thing. yes 5 man instances have become free gear fests. that doesnt mean you could beat heroic shadowlabs with a bunch of mouthbreathers for dps.
the games are catering to the exact kind of people you are saying the anti-trinity was designed to weed out. based on the face roll that is leveling sofar .. I doubt this game will play out like you think it will.
the trinity is not the reason that only the tank and healer really matter. the genre catering to instant gratification console gamers is the reason.
LFD tools are great for cramming people into content, but quality > quantity.
I am, usually on the sandbox .. more "hardcore" side of things, but I also do just want to have fun. So lighten up already
Like the original Holy Trinity was?
Holy Trinity = Warrior(Tank) Cleric(Healer) Enchanter(Crowd Control)
Last this model was used was during Burning Crusade. That was the last game I can think of to use meaningful crowd control or support. Rift has support to an extent, but they completely half assed it and support hurts you in 98% of the games content.
Not if you have to stay alive with defensive abilities, and mobs can go against anyone.
Yeah Support is definitely something I'd like to see done well, mostly because it keeps all of combat active. Really all you need is enough to accelerate the other DPS by at least enough that in an average party an average (not spectacular, not weaksauce) Support player is contributing at least 1.5 players worth of DPS to the party. I'm playing RIFT lately but haven't really dug into analyzing class performance -- do support characters not achieve this when you sum up their personal contribution plus group benefits (they'd really only need to contribute 1.0 players worth of DPS to break even, of course.) And well...non-DPS contribution is also valuable but less quantifiably justified.
As for CC, I think it's a functional role worth having, but I do see the downside in that it makes fights less exciting by turning mobs off. Particularly when overdone ("CC 4 mobs, kill the only active one" wasn't the height of exciting combat with BC.) Seems like you could improve upon the situation and make it a dedicated role if you just limited CC with some better rules though. It wouldn't be hard to make it very lucrative to bring one CC'er but feel like a second one was overkill.
I also like CoH's usage of CC as an alternative to tanking. Your group needed a minimum amount of mitigation and/or control, but you could mix it up freely without too much issue (a pair of Controllers I think mitigated damage better than a single tank.) The enemy's alpha strike tended to be the tough thing to deal with though, as (IIRC) only certain Controller builds mitigated or limited enemy damage enough for softies to safely eat the alpha.
"What is truly revealing is his implication that believing something to be true is the same as it being true. [continue]" -John Oliver
As for CC, I think it's a functional role worth having, but I do see the downside in that it makes fights less exciting by turning mobs off. Particularly when overdone ("CC 4 mobs, kill the only active one" wasn't the height of exciting combat with BC.) Seems like you could improve upon the situation and make it a dedicated role if you just limited CC with some better rules though. It wouldn't be hard to make it very lucrative to bring one CC'er but feel like a second one was overkill.
I also like CoH's usage of CC as an alternative to tanking. Your group needed a minimum amount of mitigation and/or control, but you could mix it up freely without too much issue (a pair of Controllers I think mitigated damage better than a single tank.) The enemy's alpha strike tended to be the tough thing to deal with though, as (IIRC) only certain Controller builds mitigated or limited enemy damage enough for softies to safely eat the alpha.
bard definitely did when I played it. didnt raid though, but in 5 mans they were great to have.
LFD tools are great for cramming people into content, but quality > quantity.
I am, usually on the sandbox .. more "hardcore" side of things, but I also do just want to have fun. So lighten up already
I really like playing specialised characters, so I suppose I'm "pro-trinity" in a sense. For me it doesn't have to be about the" holy trinity" though.
No one enjoys playing a healer. I do not believe that a person "enjoys" clicking on 2 dimensional boxes on the corner of the screen watching green bars moving left and right.
Your GF, among others do not enjoy healing at all.
What they enjoy is helping thier friends and being there for them in time of need. They enjoy feeling needed. They have a very strong sense of companionship. They want to support others. Like a spoke on a wheel.
The healing mechanic as designed in WoW is a chore. It's an insult to human cognitive capabilities.
"no one" is a strong phrase. I highly doubt you have any evidence to back it up.
If people enjoy slot mechnics (which is much simpler than WOW healing mechanics), why would not a single soul enjoy some simple healing mechanics?
Personally i don't heal .. but i wouldn't rule out others who actually enjoy the simple whack-the-mole mechanics.
there are lots of people that enjoy healing. In fact, in most games tanks seem to be the rarest component. Females particularly seem to enjoy healing (or support) roles.
Definitely agree. Tanks are the hardest to find.
I doubt it very strongly. The human brain is not designed for continuous repetitive chores. If the subject in question engages in this repetitive chore continously then I believe they do it because they have convinced themselves that they have to.
Control - Support - Damage
There's your trinity, but each class is not limited to one role.
Little forum boys with their polished cyber toys: whine whine, boo-hoo, talk talk.
I would say that is completely 100% wrong. The human brain is most definately designed for repetitive tasks. Whole classes are devoted to this. Schema theory, long term memory theory... are all based on the fact that the human brain purposefully builds patterns in order to react to similar/same events quicker and easier than before.
We may find it boring, but no doubt the brain is definately designed to continous and repetitve tasks.