Originally posted by FoomerangWhat is your definition of gameplay? Its probably different than mine.edit: im getting off work now, so I probably wont see your response for a while.
Do you consider watching your avatar's walking animation "gameplay"?Gameplay is when the player makes interesting decisions. It's better gameplay if the decisions remain interesting for a long period of time.Travel lacks almost all gameplay because the only decision you're typically presented with is avoiding mobs. This is an alright minigame for about the first week we all encountered it in MMORPGs (if that.) After which, travel essentially becomes devoid of any interesting interactions -- it essentially just becomes a massive shallow timesink. Hence my argument in favor of either (a) removing it (fast travel), or (b) improving it (giving it deeper gameplay.) Since there are several game mechanics which require travel, option B is a possibility which should get explored more often.
Travel is(was) part of the experience. Maybe you ran into a mob or two. Maybe you took in the scenery. Maybe it gave you downtime to chat. Or perhaps organize your inventory and plan out the rest of your gaming session. It was all part of the gameplay.Think about it this way: When you play poker with a group of people and its not your turn, are you no longer playing cards? No. You're still playing cards. You're still in the game and participating even if you're not constantly betting or drawing. Maybe you're talking to another player, or looking at your pot or planning your next move. Its part of the experience.
The point is that it is NOT a fun part. If people want to skip it, they don't find it fun. Boring part of gameplay should be cut. Back in EQ when it was first released, you need to stare at your spellbook to gain back your mana.
It was part of the gameplay too, and it was part of the "experience". Few likes that "experience" very much and obviously they got rid of this ridiculous "gameplay".
So, it is not a defense saying that it is a part of the gameplay. If it is boring and considered bad gameplay by many, why have it?
Games that have one constant, screaming level of FUN! are dime a dozen. I don't need my games to be shoving action down my throat nonstop. Whats so wrong with a game having subtlety and dynamic range? What better format than a virtual world to give varied paces in the gaming experience? I understand you want action on demand. And there is a place for that. Id just like to see that dynamic range come back to virtual world mmorpgs. Thats what made the genre unique.
You can have both .. with an instant travel option.
For those who find walking from point A to point B again and again boring, you can skip it. For those who does not, walk to your heart content.
And how is walking from point A to B ... "subtle with dynamic range"? Those are vague words without andy actual details gameplay mechanics. Are we talking about encounters on the way? Changin scenary? Or what?
Yeah, but what is "fun"? For me, I'd include things like interesting, currious, wonderous, etc.
But also, I've always felt that if you're going to have things that sort of surprize people, you also need the normal.
Obvious different people have different ideas of fun. The only way to discuss is to have specifics. What is "interesting", "curous", and "wonderous" are also vague.
Personally, i find walking from point A to point B, on the same path (or ride the same boat) very boring after the 2nd time.
And you can say goodbye to that memory had there been insta porting to instances. There forgeting that the journy IS depth and IS gameplay. Its the things that COULD happen Thats keeps you traveling.
Thats what these other people just dont care about. One of the posters said it himself. "There throw away friends." These people dont mater to them. Not interested in anything but items. All their there for is to help him get the items HE wants. Selfish selfinduldged gamers that only have eyes for the "shinny"
That is BS. There is no depth in walking. Sure, you can make walking gameplay .. very BORING gameplay. Count me out.
Selfish? So what .. we are talking about entertainment here, not charity. I do rage quit in dungeon groups which i do not like. And i do have guild friends, and battle net friends ... but are they like rl friends ... of course not. I do not apologize for that. Games are entertainment. I do whatever ways i have fun. And if devs want my money, implement my preference. Very simple.
You can have both .. with an instant travel option.
I've already pointed out the depth/engagement of travel through a game world as well as how it can be improved upon so i'm not going to go over all that again. But that line you made needs to be qualified.
You can have both so long as the instant travel does not impact upon the integrity of the virtual world and the systems it drives. That is vitally important.
"Come and have a look at what you could have won."
I'm going to have to agree, playerbase on MMORPGs is very unstable these days, meaning that people quit far more often than they used to, only to be replaced by others who quit just as soon.
And the chat...it is certainly dead in most any game there is. People don't speak anymore save for "LFG" and a troll every now and then hiding behind an alt. Unless you are in a very active guild, you would guess the game is completely uninhabited, you can go up to people and chat to their face and yet they are seem to be automated robots. Nobody can say anything anymore without the awkward silence following after, which only adds to the discourement of any chat.
You can have both .. with an instant travel option.
I've already pointed out the depth/engagement of travel through a game world as well as how it can be improved upon so i'm not going to go over all that again. But that line you made needs to be qualified.
You can have both so long as the instant travel does not impact upon the integrity of the virtual world and the systems it drives. That is vitally important.
That is simple. In fantasy world, you have magically portal. In sci-fi worlds, you have teleporters. You can always find an excuse for fast travel without breaking immersion from flight service, to portals.
OTOH, why is that "vitally" important? WOW has LFD that blatant teleport you to dungeons without any excuse. i am sure they can come up with one, with a little animation for added "immersion". But few cares enough to complain.
And the chat...it is certainly dead in most any game there is. People don't speak anymore save for "LFG" and a troll every now and then hiding behind an alt. Unless you are in a very active guild, you would guess the game is completely uninhabited, you can go up to people and chat to their face and yet they are seem to be automated robots. Nobody can say anything anymore without the awkward silence following after, which only adds to the discourement of any chat.
There are plenty of social guilds that chat about everything from video games to raising kids.
Sure, you don't chat much in LFG .. but that is not for chat .. that is for co-op groups.
That is simple. In fantasy world, you have magically portal. In sci-fi worlds, you have teleporters. You can always find an excuse for fast travel without breaking immersion from flight service, to portals.
OTOH, why is that "vitally" important? WOW has LFD that blatant teleport you to dungeons without any excuse. i am sure they can come up with one, with a little animation for added "immersion". But few cares enough to complain.
Perhaps you misunderstand. I am not talking about justifying it from a "lore" perspective. I am talking about it impacting upon major mechanics which drive virtual worlds.
If porting about like Sam Beckett on crack impacts upon the open and dynamic player driven economies, pvp, territory and resource control, specific to open, virtual world games. Then no, it is not alright to simply have a non restricted form of it within such a game world.
In games where the world actually matters very little and drives no larger systems, then fast travel all over the shop is fine and dandy.
"Come and have a look at what you could have won."
Originally posted by NaughtyP Thread about genre being dead turns into debate about travel being boring/immersive... I'm a a little confused how that became the burning issue lol.
i think it took the travel turn around page 54 of so. could have even been around page 38. hard to remember with this thread being 69 pages long now.
And you can say goodbye to that memory had there been insta porting to instances. There forgeting that the journy IS depth and IS gameplay. Its the things that COULD happen Thats keeps you traveling.
Thats what these other people just dont care about. One of the posters said it himself. "There throw away friends." These people dont mater to them. Not interested in anything but items. All their there for is to help him get the items HE wants. Selfish selfinduldged gamers that only have eyes for the "shinny"
That is BS. There is no depth in walking. Sure, you can make walking gameplay .. very BORING gameplay. Count me out.
Selfish? So what .. we are talking about entertainment here, not charity. I do rage quit in dungeon groups which i do not like. And i do have guild friends, and battle net friends ... but are they like rl friends ... of course not. I do not apologize for that. Games are entertainment. I do whatever ways i have fun. And if devs want my money, implement my preference. Very simple.
And here you have it folks. The reason the genre is in the toilet.
That is simple. In fantasy world, you have magically portal. In sci-fi worlds, you have teleporters. You can always find an excuse for fast travel without breaking immersion from flight service, to portals.
OTOH, why is that "vitally" important? WOW has LFD that blatant teleport you to dungeons without any excuse. i am sure they can come up with one, with a little animation for added "immersion". But few cares enough to complain.
Perhaps you misunderstand. I am not talking about justifying it from a "lore" perspective. I am talking about it impacting upon major mechanics which drive virtual worlds.
If porting about like Sam Beckett on crack impacts upon the open and dynamic player driven economies, pvp, territory and resource control, specific to open, virtual world games. Then no, it is not alright to simply have a non restricted form of it within such a game world.
In games where the world actually matters very little and drives no larger systems, then fast travel all over the shop is fine and dandy.
People like him dont care that it takes people out of the world and breaks gameplay. All he cares about are the shinny things he gets at the end of his random dungeon runs.
Originally posted by Quirhid Originally posted by FoomerangOriginally posted by nariusseldon
Games that have one constant, screaming level of FUN! are dime a dozen. I don't need my games to be shoving action down my throat nonstop. Whats so wrong with a game having subtlety and dynamic range? What better format than a virtual world to give varied paces in the gaming experience? I understand you want action on demand. And there is a place for that. Id just like to see that dynamic range come back to virtual world mmorpgs. Thats what made the genre unique.If you can't give any examples or explain "subtlety" or "dynamic range", they mean absolutely nothing.
wat?! lol thats what this whole thread is mainly about. Non combat activities, crafting, housing, creativity, player made content, permanence, travel, socialization in a non combat atmosphere, world building. things to do besides go out and kill each other or various creatures and bad guys. More than just mini games. More than just making a sword or armor to kill stuff better.
Originally posted by Axehilt Originally posted by FoomerangGames that have one constant, screaming level of FUN! are dime a dozen. I don't need my games to be shoving action down my throat nonstop. Whats so wrong with a game having subtlety and dynamic range? What better format than a virtual world to give varied paces in the gaming experience? I understand you want action on demand. And there is a place for that. Id just like to see that dynamic range come back to virtual world mmorpgs. Thats what made the genre unique.
We're not talking about one screaming level of fun.
We're talking about not requiring a completely dull level of non-fun.
If every single moment outside your capital city was non-stop action, a MMORPG would still have plenty of players chilling in town unwinding and socializing. What's being requested here isn't even non-stop action outside of town, it's simply that the game never forces you into ultra-shallow activities.
I fish with the best of them, spending upwards of 15-30 minutes doing nothing but relaxing and catching fish in MMORPGs. This is not a required activity. A game where fishing was a required activity would be terrible, because some days the player isn't in the mood to sit and do nothing.
Im not saying you have to travel for an hour every time you log in. How bout you travel for an hour or so on monday to get to a spot that has plenty of action for the next week? You're making a case against it by stating you'll have to do something you don't enjoy constantly, which is obviously not the case. This is all about adding player choice here and not about forcing someone to do something they dont want. You dont like to travel? Then stay in one place. If something far away looks like a lot of fun? Take a trip. If its that awful, then stick with the non virtual worlds i guess.
Originally posted by FoomerangGames that have one constant, screaming level of FUN! are dime a dozen. I don't need my games to be shoving action down my throat nonstop. Whats so wrong with a game having subtlety and dynamic range? What better format than a virtual world to give varied paces in the gaming experience? I understand you want action on demand. And there is a place for that. Id just like to see that dynamic range come back to virtual world mmorpgs. Thats what made the genre unique.
We're not talking about one screaming level of fun.
We're talking about not requiring a completely dull level of non-fun.
If every single moment outside your capital city was non-stop action, a MMORPG would still have plenty of players chilling in town unwinding and socializing. What's being requested here isn't even non-stop action outside of town, it's simply that the game never forces you into ultra-shallow activities.
I fish with the best of them, spending upwards of 15-30 minutes doing nothing but relaxing and catching fish in MMORPGs. This is not a required activity. A game where fishing was a required activity would be terrible, because some days the player isn't in the mood to sit and do nothing.
Im not saying you have to travel for an hour every time you log in. How bout you travel for an hour or so on monday to get to a spot that has plenty of action for the next week? You're making a case against it by stating you'll have to do something you don't enjoy constantly, which is obviously not the case. This is all about adding player choice here and not about forcing someone to do something they dont want. You dont like to travel? Then stay in one place. If something far away looks like a lot of fun? Take a trip. If its that awful, then stick with the non virtual worlds i guess.
Walking from point A to point B is boring, whether i am doing it for 1 hour or 10 hours.
Travel for AN HOUR? I won't play a game that requires me to do it for 15 min.
How about THIS player choice: if you like to walk, walk, if not ... go through this portal and you are there instantly. Now THAT is player's choice.
People like him dont care that it takes people out of the world and breaks gameplay. All he cares about are the shinny things he gets at the end of his random dungeon runs.
Nah .. i care about shinnies *and* interesting combat. Taking out of the world ... that is fine. Apparently that is fine with many MMO players since LFD/LFR are so popular.
That is BS. There is no depth in walking. Sure, you can make walking gameplay .. very BORING gameplay. Count me out.
Selfish? So what .. we are talking about entertainment here, not charity. I do rage quit in dungeon groups which i do not like. And i do have guild friends, and battle net friends ... but are they like rl friends ... of course not. I do not apologize for that. Games are entertainment. I do whatever ways i have fun. And if devs want my money, implement my preference. Very simple.
And here you have it folks. The reason the genre is in the toilet.
What, your dream MMO requires walking and walking for hours?
No one is stopping you from quitting genre you do not like. Some just can't deal with progress and live in the past.
Walking from point A to point B is boring, whether i am doing it for 1 hour or 10 hours.
Travel for AN HOUR? I won't play a game that requires me to do it for 15 min.
How about THIS player choice: if you like to walk, walk, if not ... go through this portal and you are there instantly. Now THAT is player's choice.
What traveling gives you is the feeling that the world is big and alive. If everything is around the next corner its just gonna look like your own neighborhood... and that's the whole game. Of course i am not saying that everyone should like it this way. but i totally understand the people that do. IMO there is also something relaxing about traveling about and looking at new places, especially if the world is interesting and well made. Fight for some time, then travel for some time. Some times you have to make big trips. To me big trips gives an epic feeling. Again different tastes.
Walking from point A to point B is boring, whether i am doing it for 1 hour or 10 hours.
Travel for AN HOUR? I won't play a game that requires me to do it for 15 min.
How about THIS player choice: if you like to walk, walk, if not ... go through this portal and you are there instantly. Now THAT is player's choice.
What traveling gives you is the feeling that the world is big and alive. If everything is around the next corner its just gonna look like your own neighborhood... and that's the whole game. Of course i am not saying that everyone should like it this way. but i totally understand the people that do. IMO there is also something relaxing about traveling about and looking at new places, especially if the world is interesting and well made. Fight for some time, then travel for some time. Some times you have to make big trips. To me big trips gives an epic feeling. Again different tastes.
There is no MMO game world big enough, that you only travel from point A to B, ONCE. Surely, scenary *may* be interesting for the first time. How about the 10th time?
I have NEVER seen a MMO world that is "interesting" by the 4 or 5th i travel around it. Thus, it is customary that you have to travel the first time, and open by fast travel options.
Even SP RPG like SKYRIM let you do that.
Now if there are people who enjoy travel the same route for the 100th time, they are free to do so. However, a game is badly designed, if it does not allow an OPTION for those who does not want to travel the same route 100th times.
People like him dont care that it takes people out of the world and breaks gameplay. All he cares about are the shinny things he gets at the end of his random dungeon runs.
Nah .. i care about shinnies *and* interesting combat. Taking out of the world ... that is fine. Apparently that is fine with many MMO players since LFD/LFR are so popular.
No its not ok with MMO players. Its fine for your console jockeys though.
That is BS. There is no depth in walking. Sure, you can make walking gameplay .. very BORING gameplay. Count me out.
Selfish? So what .. we are talking about entertainment here, not charity. I do rage quit in dungeon groups which i do not like. And i do have guild friends, and battle net friends ... but are they like rl friends ... of course not. I do not apologize for that. Games are entertainment. I do whatever ways i have fun. And if devs want my money, implement my preference. Very simple.
And here you have it folks. The reason the genre is in the toilet.
What, your dream MMO requires walking and walking for hours?
No one is stopping you from quitting genre you do not like. Some just can't deal with progress and live in the past.
ROFL your just talking out your ass now. Never once did i say i wanna walk for HOURS. Did you gain ventriloquy superpowers to? You love to put words into other peoples mouths.
Walking from point A to point B is boring, whether i am doing it for 1 hour or 10 hours.
Travel for AN HOUR? I won't play a game that requires me to do it for 15 min.
How about THIS player choice: if you like to walk, walk, if not ... go through this portal and you are there instantly. Now THAT is player's choice.
What traveling gives you is the feeling that the world is big and alive. If everything is around the next corner its just gonna look like your own neighborhood... and that's the whole game. Of course i am not saying that everyone should like it this way. but i totally understand the people that do. IMO there is also something relaxing about traveling about and looking at new places, especially if the world is interesting and well made. Fight for some time, then travel for some time. Some times you have to make big trips. To me big trips gives an epic feeling. Again different tastes.
Bro dont even bother. Your talking to someone who in hindsight, doesent even want to play MMOs. Just a form of mmo with all the features of Black Ops and D3. Neather one is a MMO. Its pointless.
People like him dont care that it takes people out of the world and breaks gameplay. All he cares about are the shinny things he gets at the end of his random dungeon runs.
Nah .. i care about shinnies *and* interesting combat. Taking out of the world ... that is fine. Apparently that is fine with many MMO players since LFD/LFR are so popular.
No its not ok with MMO players. Its fine for your console jockeys though.
You haven't read the forums on TOR where players were asking for LFD/LFR?
You don't see all the WOW players lining up for LFD in Orgrimmar?
That is BS. There is no depth in walking. Sure, you can make walking gameplay .. very BORING gameplay. Count me out.
Selfish? So what .. we are talking about entertainment here, not charity. I do rage quit in dungeon groups which i do not like. And i do have guild friends, and battle net friends ... but are they like rl friends ... of course not. I do not apologize for that. Games are entertainment. I do whatever ways i have fun. And if devs want my money, implement my preference. Very simple.
And here you have it folks. The reason the genre is in the toilet.
What, your dream MMO requires walking and walking for hours?
No one is stopping you from quitting genre you do not like. Some just can't deal with progress and live in the past.
ROFL your just talking out your ass now. Never once did i say i wanna walk for HOURS. Did you gain ventriloquy superpowers to? You love to put words into other peoples mouths.
What you call progress i call regression.
You sounds like one who is stuck in the 90s. MMOs in 2012 is not the same anymore.
Walking from point A to point B is boring, whether i am doing it for 1 hour or 10 hours.
Travel for AN HOUR? I won't play a game that requires me to do it for 15 min.
How about THIS player choice: if you like to walk, walk, if not ... go through this portal and you are there instantly. Now THAT is player's choice.
What traveling gives you is the feeling that the world is big and alive. If everything is around the next corner its just gonna look like your own neighborhood... and that's the whole game. Of course i am not saying that everyone should like it this way. but i totally understand the people that do. IMO there is also something relaxing about traveling about and looking at new places, especially if the world is interesting and well made. Fight for some time, then travel for some time. Some times you have to make big trips. To me big trips gives an epic feeling. Again different tastes.
Bro dont even bother. Your talking to someone who in hindsight, doesent even want to play MMOs. Just a form of mmo with all the features of Black Ops and D3. Neather one is a MMO. Its pointless.
"a form of MMO with all the features of D3 and Black Ops" .. yeah .. those are the modern MMOs.
In fact, i think i will go queue up a mission in DCUO now. Wait ... DCUO is not a MMO anymore?
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Enter a whole new realm of challenge and adventure.
You can have both .. with an instant travel option.
For those who find walking from point A to point B again and again boring, you can skip it. For those who does not, walk to your heart content.
And how is walking from point A to B ... "subtle with dynamic range"? Those are vague words without andy actual details gameplay mechanics. Are we talking about encounters on the way? Changin scenary? Or what?
Obvious different people have different ideas of fun. The only way to discuss is to have specifics. What is "interesting", "curous", and "wonderous" are also vague.
Personally, i find walking from point A to point B, on the same path (or ride the same boat) very boring after the 2nd time.
That is BS. There is no depth in walking. Sure, you can make walking gameplay .. very BORING gameplay. Count me out.
Selfish? So what .. we are talking about entertainment here, not charity. I do rage quit in dungeon groups which i do not like. And i do have guild friends, and battle net friends ... but are they like rl friends ... of course not. I do not apologize for that. Games are entertainment. I do whatever ways i have fun. And if devs want my money, implement my preference. Very simple.
I've already pointed out the depth/engagement of travel through a game world as well as how it can be improved upon so i'm not going to go over all that again. But that line you made needs to be qualified.
You can have both so long as the instant travel does not impact upon the integrity of the virtual world and the systems it drives. That is vitally important.
"Come and have a look at what you could have won."
I'm going to have to agree, playerbase on MMORPGs is very unstable these days, meaning that people quit far more often than they used to, only to be replaced by others who quit just as soon.
And the chat...it is certainly dead in most any game there is. People don't speak anymore save for "LFG" and a troll every now and then hiding behind an alt. Unless you are in a very active guild, you would guess the game is completely uninhabited, you can go up to people and chat to their face and yet they are seem to be automated robots. Nobody can say anything anymore without the awkward silence following after, which only adds to the discourement of any chat.
F*ck the antisocials
That is simple. In fantasy world, you have magically portal. In sci-fi worlds, you have teleporters. You can always find an excuse for fast travel without breaking immersion from flight service, to portals.
OTOH, why is that "vitally" important? WOW has LFD that blatant teleport you to dungeons without any excuse. i am sure they can come up with one, with a little animation for added "immersion". But few cares enough to complain.
There are plenty of social guilds that chat about everything from video games to raising kids.
Sure, you don't chat much in LFG .. but that is not for chat .. that is for co-op groups.
Perhaps you misunderstand. I am not talking about justifying it from a "lore" perspective. I am talking about it impacting upon major mechanics which drive virtual worlds.
If porting about like Sam Beckett on crack impacts upon the open and dynamic player driven economies, pvp, territory and resource control, specific to open, virtual world games. Then no, it is not alright to simply have a non restricted form of it within such a game world.
In games where the world actually matters very little and drives no larger systems, then fast travel all over the shop is fine and dandy.
"Come and have a look at what you could have won."
i think it took the travel turn around page 54 of so. could have even been around page 38. hard to remember with this thread being 69 pages long now.
And here you have it folks. The reason the genre is in the toilet.
People like him dont care that it takes people out of the world and breaks gameplay. All he cares about are the shinny things he gets at the end of his random dungeon runs.
Games that have one constant, screaming level of FUN! are dime a dozen. I don't need my games to be shoving action down my throat nonstop. Whats so wrong with a game having subtlety and dynamic range? What better format than a virtual world to give varied paces in the gaming experience? I understand you want action on demand. And there is a place for that. Id just like to see that dynamic range come back to virtual world mmorpgs. Thats what made the genre unique.
If you can't give any examples or explain "subtlety" or "dynamic range", they mean absolutely nothing.
wat?! lol thats what this whole thread is mainly about. Non combat activities, crafting, housing, creativity, player made content, permanence, travel, socialization in a non combat atmosphere, world building. things to do besides go out and kill each other or various creatures and bad guys. More than just mini games. More than just making a sword or armor to kill stuff better.
We're talking about not requiring a completely dull level of non-fun.
If every single moment outside your capital city was non-stop action, a MMORPG would still have plenty of players chilling in town unwinding and socializing. What's being requested here isn't even non-stop action outside of town, it's simply that the game never forces you into ultra-shallow activities.
I fish with the best of them, spending upwards of 15-30 minutes doing nothing but relaxing and catching fish in MMORPGs. This is not a required activity. A game where fishing was a required activity would be terrible, because some days the player isn't in the mood to sit and do nothing.
Im not saying you have to travel for an hour every time you log in. How bout you travel for an hour or so on monday to get to a spot that has plenty of action for the next week? You're making a case against it by stating you'll have to do something you don't enjoy constantly, which is obviously not the case. This is all about adding player choice here and not about forcing someone to do something they dont want. You dont like to travel? Then stay in one place. If something far away looks like a lot of fun? Take a trip. If its that awful, then stick with the non virtual worlds i guess.
Walking from point A to point B is boring, whether i am doing it for 1 hour or 10 hours.
Travel for AN HOUR? I won't play a game that requires me to do it for 15 min.
How about THIS player choice: if you like to walk, walk, if not ... go through this portal and you are there instantly. Now THAT is player's choice.
Nah .. i care about shinnies *and* interesting combat. Taking out of the world ... that is fine. Apparently that is fine with many MMO players since LFD/LFR are so popular.
What, your dream MMO requires walking and walking for hours?
No one is stopping you from quitting genre you do not like. Some just can't deal with progress and live in the past.
What traveling gives you is the feeling that the world is big and alive. If everything is around the next corner its just gonna look like your own neighborhood... and that's the whole game. Of course i am not saying that everyone should like it this way. but i totally understand the people that do. IMO there is also something relaxing about traveling about and looking at new places, especially if the world is interesting and well made. Fight for some time, then travel for some time. Some times you have to make big trips. To me big trips gives an epic feeling. Again different tastes.
There is no MMO game world big enough, that you only travel from point A to B, ONCE. Surely, scenary *may* be interesting for the first time. How about the 10th time?
I have NEVER seen a MMO world that is "interesting" by the 4 or 5th i travel around it. Thus, it is customary that you have to travel the first time, and open by fast travel options.
Even SP RPG like SKYRIM let you do that.
Now if there are people who enjoy travel the same route for the 100th time, they are free to do so. However, a game is badly designed, if it does not allow an OPTION for those who does not want to travel the same route 100th times.
No its not ok with MMO players. Its fine for your console jockeys though.
ROFL your just talking out your ass now. Never once did i say i wanna walk for HOURS. Did you gain ventriloquy superpowers to? You love to put words into other peoples mouths.
What you call progress i call regression.
Bro dont even bother. Your talking to someone who in hindsight, doesent even want to play MMOs. Just a form of mmo with all the features of Black Ops and D3. Neather one is a MMO. Its pointless.
You haven't read the forums on TOR where players were asking for LFD/LFR?
You don't see all the WOW players lining up for LFD in Orgrimmar?
You sounds like one who is stuck in the 90s. MMOs in 2012 is not the same anymore.
"a form of MMO with all the features of D3 and Black Ops" .. yeah .. those are the modern MMOs.
In fact, i think i will go queue up a mission in DCUO now. Wait ... DCUO is not a MMO anymore?