But again you are right, the market have spoken and what most said was that they woudl not pay a sub fot the game, now with that fixed we will ahev to wait and see what the market says next. After all if we should go by your logic EvE would have been dead trice over today.
Of games that have been shutdown, I'd agree TR is probably the poster child of failure. How could RG of Ultima fame blow it so badly>
Of games still running, WAR is the biggest let down in my book, I mean how could the creators of DAOC fail so badly in round 2?
But wait, perhaps a close 2nd is Vanguard, Brad M should have been able to deliver better.
And of titles that never were the recent closing of 38 Studios has to rank right up there with major failures and most people who followed Darkness and Light might call it one of the greatest failures.
SWTOR is still up and running and we don't have any real idea how much it cost to make, how much money they've recovered, nor how many subs they really have at this point.
I'll tell you this much, my guild still has 20+ raiders twice a week still playing so it couldn't have totally died off even if the majority have moved on to TSW and GW2.
So no, I don't see SWTOR as the greatest failure, except perhaps in not living up to the hype some folks put around it.
I mean hey, it's Star Wars, it's too big to fail.
Funny thing though, the people making TESO are saying the same thing, relying on the IP to carry the day. They'd better start making their F2P plans right now.
Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing New Worlds atm
Fools find no pleasure in understanding but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV
Don't just play games, inhabit virtual worlds™
"This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon
Originally posted by Souldrainer So, the OP has never heard of Tabula Rasa, Everquest 2, City of Heroes, Darkfall, Mortal Online, Hellgate London, APB, or Tabula Rasa? interesting...
how was CoH a complete failure? it's done pretty well for itself so has EQ2
Yeh, CoH and EQ2 really don't figure as failures in any way in my book...neither did they go F2P within the year, nor did they cost 100m + to make.
MMO developers need to anticipate innovations that will evolve the genre during the five years they will be spending developing the game and position the end result to compete with next generation games. TOR is maybe two generations behind and that's what killed them.
This, 100 times this! That is exactly how I felt when I tried TOR for a month. It's like they were building TOR and decided they wanted to compete with 2007 WoW and didn't bother to look at any innovations after that date. As you stated, had TOR released in 2007 it may well have competed with WoW, we'll never know, but there was no way it could compete in 2011/12.
What was really funny was when it launched many people pointed out all the features the game was lacking and all the fans defended the game pointing out how WoW didn't have this feature or that feature at launch and they missed the point that whenever you're creating anything, you need to be ready to compete with the competition as it exists when you go live, not what it used to have.
This has got to be the biggest MMO failure to date. Big and I mean BIG budget studios (BioWare, and then all of Mythic), many millions of dollars, reknown voice actors and actors, world-famous interllectual property (Star Wars - who doesn't know it???), one of the titans of video games, EA and many years of anticipated development - all of this to crash and burn in less than a year?
Sure you guys can argue that F2P is not a failure and that the game had "always been intended for F2P/Freemium" . Personally I think this view is bogus but whatever.
But the FACT remains that this game was THE WoW killer. Everyone from EA's CEO to BioWare's developers to SWTOR community managers said that this was the game that was going to face Blizzard's juggernaught, WoW. (You can look up articles posted during SWTOR's development that how this was the next big thing; I am not making this stuff up.)
Well, one game still requires you to buy the latest expansion at FULL PRICE. One game still requires you to buy the game to level to levelcap. One game still has a major expansion coming up. One game still requires a subscription fee. That game isn't SWTOR.
This has got to be the most monumental MMO failure - way beyond other "WoW killers" like AoC, War, etc. I mean, even WAR still has a subscription. How sad.
These are video games for people to throw this big of a temper tantrum over a game is ridiculous. A grow adult like myself who was let down by TOR would do what I did. I move on, I stopped playing, I didnt come on some website and think I know all and whine and cry about a game that failed. These post are old, boring and serve no purpose. I am happy for the people who enjoy TOR or any other game. Why do you care so much?
a superhero MMO based on the most popular superhero RPG system in history, made by the masters of Superhero MMO's (yes before champion Cryptic was looked upon as true blue example of the american dream, a small unknown studio that produced one of the best MMO launches seen to up to that point) and all that mounted up to absolutly jack and less.
SWTOR failed because of one thing; they were making a Star Wars MMORPG geared towards non-Star Wars fans. This translated to as 'easy-as-possible' or -basically- a dull world. EA thinks that easy-as-possible also means completely dumbing down everything, with no real depth to the game. They chase the illusionary 10-million casual crowd that simply does not exist. This lesson should have been learned after LoTRO failed to do any better than EQ II.
Nicely put. It was not a game designed around the 30-40 somethings, as originally intended (with a splash of 20 somethings). It ended up, unfortuneately, to be made to compete with WoW for the teenage market, who was polluted with WoW and the instant gratification and easy mode methedology.
If it just hit a nice market with Star Wars fans with amazing new features never before seen (like how the original movies were such a shift from Star Trek clones in the 70s), this game would have been flippin amazing. Since it was made to be an equivalent to current interest (ie Star Trek in the 70's), it came off as not very innovative at all.
Was TR backed by a film moghul? Did TR have a world-famous IP? From what I have heard TR had great potential but some very poor design executions and the devs didn't give it a chance.
SWTOR has had its chance the market has spoken.
I don't think the Freemium model will bring it the consitent userbase EA hopes itn will. My evidence is AoC which has the same subscription/F2P model.
No TR was headed up by Richard Garriot..a man with far more talent and imagination than George Lucas and virtually his equivilent in the gaming world. If the number crunching penny grubbing suits had left Garriot alone to do his thing...Tabula Rasa would likely have a very different ending...perhaps even no ending.
Originally posted by Souldrainer So, the OP has never heard of Tabula Rasa, Everquest 2, City of Heroes, Darkfall, Mortal Online, Hellgate London, APB, or Tabula Rasa? interesting...
how was CoH a complete failure? it's done pretty well for itself so has EQ2
I think the poster was showing other games that went F2P without the world ending.
perhaps although tabula pretty much just shut down
I angered the clerk in a clothing shop today. She asked me what size I was and I said actual, because I am not to scale. I like vending machines 'cause snacks are better when they fall. If I buy a candy bar at a store, oftentimes, I will drop it... so that it achieves its maximum flavor potential. --Mitch Hedberg
Was TR backed by a film moghul? Did TR have a world-famous IP? From what I have heard TR had great potential but some very poor design executions and the devs didn't give it a chance.
SWTOR has had its chance the market has spoken.
I don't think the Freemium model will bring it the consitent userbase EA hopes itn will. My evidence is AoC which has the same subscription/F2P model.
No TR was headed up..initially by Richard Garriot..a man with far more talent and imagination than George Lucas and virtually his equivilent in the gaming world.
The movie industry is bigger than the gaming world. $300 million dollar budget is bigger than TR even if TR is ten thousand times the game SWTOR ever will be.
I'm basing my post on fact, not which game was better and failed in the eyes of gamers. I mean SWTOR is the game that had an opening event in Times Square, New York.
"Never argue with a fool; onlookers may not be able to tell the difference."
I'd say Tabula Rasa over SWTOR but if you just wanted to feel the glory on your sparkle pony, don't let me ruin your parade.
Yeah, Tubula Rasa, the Matrix Online or Vanguard were much bigger fails than The Old Republic, commercially and critically.
The Old Republic sold very well initially, over 2 million copies, and still has over 500k subscribers, so it is a failure somewhat but not to the same extent as the games mentioned above.
Don't let this site fool you, The Old Republic is not as hated everywhere as this site makes it out to be, I mean come on, could the "Worst MMO of all time" or "The death of the MMO genre" really retain 500k+ subs?
Also, people saying "The Old Republic is a failure because it hasn't made it development costs back" are stupid, it's an MMO, not a single player game, it's supposed to make the majority of it's money over years, not right away like a single player game.
Tabula Rasa and the Matrix did so bad they were shut down after just over a year each, and neither did very well critically. The Matrix had a massive IP and following, not as big as Star Wars, but still big. And Tabula Rasa had Richard Garriot behind it, probably the biggest and most well known man in the MMO genre.
Vanguard was a massive budget and some big names behind it too, SoE and the creators of EverQuest, and it did terribly commercially and critically. It's only now, years after it's release, well recieved and about to be re-launched.
Also, F2P will also keep The Old Republic from holding the title "Biggest MMO failure to date" it will make a heap of money from this conversion and probably keep 200-500k+ active subs, along with Free players who purchase from the item shop.
So, no, in my opinion The Old Republic is far from the "Biggest MMO failure to date."
MO was ended on its own terms. SWTOR is pathetically kept on life support - when the devs probably hoped it would be a racehorse. I'm sorry but this is definitely a huge fail. You guys are focusing on the end result ignoring the expectations that rode the games. People expected SWTOR to be "dethrone WoW" (stupid term but whatever). Instead it's struggling to keep 250k subs and going F2P.
"Never argue with a fool; onlookers may not be able to tell the difference."
This has got to be the biggest MMO failure to date. Big and I mean BIG budget studios (BioWare, and then all of Mythic), many millions of dollars, reknown voice actors and actors, world-famous interllectual property (Star Wars - who doesn't know it???), one of the titans of video games, EA and many years of anticipated development - all of this to crash and burn in less than a year?
Sure you guys can argue that F2P is not a failure and that the game had "always been intended for F2P/Freemium" . Personally I think this view is bogus but whatever.
But the FACT remains that this game was THE WoW killer. Everyone from EA's CEO to BioWare's developers to SWTOR community managers said that this was the game that was going to face Blizzard's juggernaught, WoW. (You can look up articles posted during SWTOR's development that how this was the next big thing; I am not making this stuff up.)
Well, one game still requires you to buy the latest expansion at FULL PRICE. One game still requires you to buy the game to level to levelcap. One game still has a major expansion coming up. One game still requires a subscription fee. That game isn't SWTOR.
This has got to be the most monumental MMO failure - way beyond other "WoW killers" like AoC, War, etc. I mean, even WAR still has a subscription. How sad.
These are video games for people to throw this big of a temper tantrum over a game is ridiculous. A grow adult like myself who was let down by TOR would do what I did. I move on, I stopped playing, I didnt come on some website and think I know all and whine and cry about a game that failed. These post are old, boring and serve no purpose. I am happy for the people who enjoy TOR or any other game. Why do you care so much?
[mod edit]
I post on threads like this in an effort to help these poor poor OP's that cant let go. I really wanted TOR to work, it didnt, I moved on to a new game, well went back to a game. [mod edit]
Was TR backed by a film moghul? Did TR have a world-famous IP? From what I have heard TR had great potential but some very poor design executions and the devs didn't give it a chance.
SWTOR has had its chance the market has spoken.
I don't think the Freemium model will bring it the consitent userbase EA hopes itn will. My evidence is AoC which has the same subscription/F2P model.
No TR was headed up..initially by Richard Garriot..a man with far more talent and imagination than George Lucas and virtually his equivilent in the gaming world.
The movie industry is bigger than the gaming world. $300 million dollar budget is bigger than TR even if TR is ten thousand times the game SWTOR ever will be.
I'm basing my post on fact, not which game was better and failed in the eyes of gamers. I mean SWTOR is the game that had an opening event in Times Square, New York.
Tabula shut down completely at just over a year. Right now although no concrete numbers SWTOR still has thousands playing. If swtor shuts down for good next year sometime i'd say it would surpass Tabula as greatest MMO failure in my eyes..
I angered the clerk in a clothing shop today. She asked me what size I was and I said actual, because I am not to scale. I like vending machines 'cause snacks are better when they fall. If I buy a candy bar at a store, oftentimes, I will drop it... so that it achieves its maximum flavor potential. --Mitch Hedberg
Was TR backed by a film moghul? Did TR have a world-famous IP? From what I have heard TR had great potential but some very poor design executions and the devs didn't give it a chance.
SWTOR has had its chance the market has spoken.
I don't think the Freemium model will bring it the consitent userbase EA hopes itn will. My evidence is AoC which has the same subscription/F2P model.
No TR was headed up..initially by Richard Garriot..a man with far more talent and imagination than George Lucas and virtually his equivilent in the gaming world.
The movie industry is bigger than the gaming world. $300 million dollar budget is bigger than TR even if TR is ten thousand times the game SWTOR ever will be.
I'm basing my post on fact, not which game was better and failed in the eyes of gamers. I mean SWTOR is the game that had an opening event in Times Square, New York.
That's becoming arguable. (in red) My statement was taking that into account...Garriot is a virtual equal to Lucas relative to their fields and all things considered in proportion.. Of course it is an opinion. and though I have no proof I seriously doubt that Lucas (in any capacity .Lucasarts..films..whatever) contributed anything but a greenlight towards advertising..including the flash mob thing in times square. Once they gave EA/bioware the licensed for whatever fee they just ssat back and waited for the money to pour into their coffers. I guess they were a bit surprised.
MO was ended on its own terms. SWTOR is pathetically kept on life support - when the devs probably hoped it would be a racehorse. I'm sorry but this is definitely a huge fail. You guys are focusing on the end result ignoring the expectations that rode the games. People expected SWTOR to be "dethrone WoW" (stupid term but whatever). Instead it's struggling to keep 250k subs and going F2P.
Guess what those 250K (a little proof on the numbers please) enjoy the game. Why do you care again?
dont know if it is a failure or not but if it puts a end to WoW clones cause it lost lots of money then in my books its a win for mmos everywhere. Bring back hard mmos and proper sandbox games
The game was a massive failure from the start, terrible space combat called a minigame lol.....speeders that are slower then snails, no option to cruise the galaxy in your starship that was worthless, this is the future of gaming folks, people who think they know what people want in an MMO and buiuld a steaming pile of dung, real world pvp has been deleted from almost every MMO on the market, that right there is a failure...We need a developer with a FFA PvP mindset, no more of this 300 million dollar themepark garbage, Tera is the next game to fall on it's face, same with GW2
Also on a side note.... Had Garriot had his way a 300M budget woudl not have been enough to pay for the game he had planned to begin with. The man is brilliant... stark raving mad but brilliant.
Any way we have yet to see if this is a failure... Should the F2P move not bring in money then a will concede to you that it is a fail, but i do not think that will happen.
Yes they missejudged the market, not the first or last time that will happen. And they are fixing that, not much different from patching the game to fix coding errors. A tad more drastic but not much different.
This has got to be the biggest MMO failure to date. Big and I mean BIG budget studios (BioWare, and then all of Mythic), many millions of dollars, reknown voice actors and actors, world-famous interllectual property (Star Wars - who doesn't know it???), one of the titans of video games, EA and many years of anticipated development - all of this to crash and burn in less than a year?
Sure you guys can argue that F2P is not a failure and that the game had "always been intended for F2P/Freemium" . Personally I think this view is bogus but whatever.
But the FACT remains that this game was THE WoW killer. Everyone from EA's CEO to BioWare's developers to SWTOR community managers said that this was the game that was going to face Blizzard's juggernaught, WoW. (You can look up articles posted during SWTOR's development that how this was the next big thing; I am not making this stuff up.)
Well, one game still requires you to buy the latest expansion at FULL PRICE. One game still requires you to buy the game to level to levelcap. One game still has a major expansion coming up. One game still requires a subscription fee. That game isn't SWTOR.
This has got to be the most monumental MMO failure - way beyond other "WoW killers" like AoC, War, etc. I mean, even WAR still has a subscription. How sad.
Are you starting this thread because you are really happy about swtor's "failure"?
Kyleran: "Now there's the real trick, learning to accept and enjoy a game for what
it offers rather than pass on what might be a great playing experience
because it lacks a few features you prefer."
John Henry Newman: "A man would do nothing if he waited until he could do it so well that no one could find fault."
FreddyNoNose: "A good game needs no defense; a bad game has no defense." "Easily digested content is just as easily forgotten."
LacedOpium: "So the question that begs to be asked is, if you are not interested in
the game mechanics that define the MMORPG genre, then why are you
playing an MMORPG?"
To the OP, in a word: yes. Here's another: absolutely. When you talk about dollars spent, the height of expectations, the rapidity of the fall, no game excels over TOR in terms of fail. SWG is officially off the hook. There's a new king of collapse, and his name is TOR. Pity Star Wars games have to keep carrying this banner.
Comments
Let us agree to disagree on TR.
But again you are right, the market have spoken and what most said was that they woudl not pay a sub fot the game, now with that fixed we will ahev to wait and see what the market says next. After all if we should go by your logic EvE would have been dead trice over today.
This have been a good conversation
Of games that have been shutdown, I'd agree TR is probably the poster child of failure. How could RG of Ultima fame blow it so badly>
Of games still running, WAR is the biggest let down in my book, I mean how could the creators of DAOC fail so badly in round 2?
But wait, perhaps a close 2nd is Vanguard, Brad M should have been able to deliver better.
And of titles that never were the recent closing of 38 Studios has to rank right up there with major failures and most people who followed Darkness and Light might call it one of the greatest failures.
SWTOR is still up and running and we don't have any real idea how much it cost to make, how much money they've recovered, nor how many subs they really have at this point.
I'll tell you this much, my guild still has 20+ raiders twice a week still playing so it couldn't have totally died off even if the majority have moved on to TSW and GW2.
So no, I don't see SWTOR as the greatest failure, except perhaps in not living up to the hype some folks put around it.
I mean hey, it's Star Wars, it's too big to fail.
Funny thing though, the people making TESO are saying the same thing, relying on the IP to carry the day. They'd better start making their F2P plans right now.
"True friends stab you in the front." | Oscar Wilde
"I need to finish" - Christian Wolff: The Accountant
Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing New Worlds atm
Fools find no pleasure in understanding but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV
Don't just play games, inhabit virtual worlds™
"This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon
how was CoH a complete failure? it's done pretty well for itself so has EQ2
Yeh, CoH and EQ2 really don't figure as failures in any way in my book...neither did they go F2P within the year, nor did they cost 100m + to make.This, 100 times this! That is exactly how I felt when I tried TOR for a month. It's like they were building TOR and decided they wanted to compete with 2007 WoW and didn't bother to look at any innovations after that date. As you stated, had TOR released in 2007 it may well have competed with WoW, we'll never know, but there was no way it could compete in 2011/12.
What was really funny was when it launched many people pointed out all the features the game was lacking and all the fans defended the game pointing out how WoW didn't have this feature or that feature at launch and they missed the point that whenever you're creating anything, you need to be ready to compete with the competition as it exists when you go live, not what it used to have.
These are video games for people to throw this big of a temper tantrum over a game is ridiculous. A grow adult like myself who was let down by TOR would do what I did. I move on, I stopped playing, I didnt come on some website and think I know all and whine and cry about a game that failed. These post are old, boring and serve no purpose. I am happy for the people who enjoy TOR or any other game. Why do you care so much?
And if we shoudl speak of failed games going F2P
Champions Online
a superhero MMO based on the most popular superhero RPG system in history, made by the masters of Superhero MMO's (yes before champion Cryptic was looked upon as true blue example of the american dream, a small unknown studio that produced one of the best MMO launches seen to up to that point) and all that mounted up to absolutly jack and less.
This have been a good conversation
Nicely put. It was not a game designed around the 30-40 somethings, as originally intended (with a splash of 20 somethings). It ended up, unfortuneately, to be made to compete with WoW for the teenage market, who was polluted with WoW and the instant gratification and easy mode methedology.
If it just hit a nice market with Star Wars fans with amazing new features never before seen (like how the original movies were such a shift from Star Trek clones in the 70s), this game would have been flippin amazing. Since it was made to be an equivalent to current interest (ie Star Trek in the 70's), it came off as not very innovative at all.
Want a nice understanding of life? Try Spirit Science: "The Human History"
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U8NNHmV3QPw&feature=plcp
Recognize the voice? Yep sounds like Penny Arcade's Extra Credits.
No TR was headed up by Richard Garriot..a man with far more talent and imagination than George Lucas and virtually his equivilent in the gaming world. If the number crunching penny grubbing suits had left Garriot alone to do his thing...Tabula Rasa would likely have a very different ending...perhaps even no ending.
perhaps although tabula pretty much just shut down
I angered the clerk in a clothing shop today. She asked me what size I was and I said actual, because I am not to scale. I like vending machines 'cause snacks are better when they fall. If I buy a candy bar at a store, oftentimes, I will drop it... so that it achieves its maximum flavor potential. --Mitch Hedberg
The movie industry is bigger than the gaming world. $300 million dollar budget is bigger than TR even if TR is ten thousand times the game SWTOR ever will be.
I'm basing my post on fact, not which game was better and failed in the eyes of gamers. I mean SWTOR is the game that had an opening event in Times Square, New York.
"Never argue with a fool; onlookers may not be able to tell the difference."
I need to take this advice more.
Yeah, Tubula Rasa, the Matrix Online or Vanguard were much bigger fails than The Old Republic, commercially and critically.
The Old Republic sold very well initially, over 2 million copies, and still has over 500k subscribers, so it is a failure somewhat but not to the same extent as the games mentioned above.
Don't let this site fool you, The Old Republic is not as hated everywhere as this site makes it out to be, I mean come on, could the "Worst MMO of all time" or "The death of the MMO genre" really retain 500k+ subs?
Also, people saying "The Old Republic is a failure because it hasn't made it development costs back" are stupid, it's an MMO, not a single player game, it's supposed to make the majority of it's money over years, not right away like a single player game.
Tabula Rasa and the Matrix did so bad they were shut down after just over a year each, and neither did very well critically. The Matrix had a massive IP and following, not as big as Star Wars, but still big. And Tabula Rasa had Richard Garriot behind it, probably the biggest and most well known man in the MMO genre.
Vanguard was a massive budget and some big names behind it too, SoE and the creators of EverQuest, and it did terribly commercially and critically. It's only now, years after it's release, well recieved and about to be re-launched.
Also, F2P will also keep The Old Republic from holding the title "Biggest MMO failure to date" it will make a heap of money from this conversion and probably keep 200-500k+ active subs, along with Free players who purchase from the item shop.
So, no, in my opinion The Old Republic is far from the "Biggest MMO failure to date."
MO was ended on its own terms. SWTOR is pathetically kept on life support - when the devs probably hoped it would be a racehorse. I'm sorry but this is definitely a huge fail. You guys are focusing on the end result ignoring the expectations that rode the games. People expected SWTOR to be "dethrone WoW" (stupid term but whatever). Instead it's struggling to keep 250k subs and going F2P.
"Never argue with a fool; onlookers may not be able to tell the difference."
I need to take this advice more.
I post on threads like this in an effort to help these poor poor OP's that cant let go. I really wanted TOR to work, it didnt, I moved on to a new game, well went back to a game. [mod edit]
Tabula shut down completely at just over a year. Right now although no concrete numbers SWTOR still has thousands playing. If swtor shuts down for good next year sometime i'd say it would surpass Tabula as greatest MMO failure in my eyes..
I angered the clerk in a clothing shop today. She asked me what size I was and I said actual, because I am not to scale. I like vending machines 'cause snacks are better when they fall. If I buy a candy bar at a store, oftentimes, I will drop it... so that it achieves its maximum flavor potential. --Mitch Hedberg
That's becoming arguable. (in red) My statement was taking that into account...Garriot is a virtual equal to Lucas relative to their fields and all things considered in proportion.. Of course it is an opinion. and though I have no proof I seriously doubt that Lucas (in any capacity .Lucasarts..films..whatever) contributed anything but a greenlight towards advertising..including the flash mob thing in times square. Once they gave EA/bioware the licensed for whatever fee they just ssat back and waited for the money to pour into their coffers. I guess they were a bit surprised.
Guess what those 250K (a little proof on the numbers please) enjoy the game. Why do you care again?
dont know if it is a failure or not but if it puts a end to WoW clones cause it lost lots of money then in my books its a win for mmos everywhere. Bring back hard mmos and proper sandbox games
The game was a massive failure from the start, terrible space combat called a minigame lol.....speeders that are slower then snails, no option to cruise the galaxy in your starship that was worthless, this is the future of gaming folks, people who think they know what people want in an MMO and buiuld a steaming pile of dung, real world pvp has been deleted from almost every MMO on the market, that right there is a failure...We need a developer with a FFA PvP mindset, no more of this 300 million dollar themepark garbage, Tera is the next game to fall on it's face, same with GW2
Also on a side note.... Had Garriot had his way a 300M budget woudl not have been enough to pay for the game he had planned to begin with. The man is brilliant... stark raving mad but brilliant.
Any way we have yet to see if this is a failure... Should the F2P move not bring in money then a will concede to you that it is a fail, but i do not think that will happen.
Yes they missejudged the market, not the first or last time that will happen. And they are fixing that, not much different from patching the game to fix coding errors. A tad more drastic but not much different.
This have been a good conversation
Project Copernicus.
Tabula Rasa and the Matrix Online
Proud MMORPG.com member since March 2004! Make PvE GREAT Again!
Are you starting this thread because you are really happy about swtor's "failure"?
Epic Music: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vAigCvelkhQ&list=PLo9FRw1AkDuQLEz7Gvvaz3ideB2NpFtT1
https://archive.org/details/softwarelibrary_msdos?&sort=-downloads&page=1
Kyleran: "Now there's the real trick, learning to accept and enjoy a game for what it offers rather than pass on what might be a great playing experience because it lacks a few features you prefer."
John Henry Newman: "A man would do nothing if he waited until he could do it so well that no one could find fault."
FreddyNoNose: "A good game needs no defense; a bad game has no defense." "Easily digested content is just as easily forgotten."
LacedOpium: "So the question that begs to be asked is, if you are not interested in the game mechanics that define the MMORPG genre, then why are you playing an MMORPG?"
To the OP, in a word: yes. Here's another: absolutely. When you talk about dollars spent, the height of expectations, the rapidity of the fall, no game excels over TOR in terms of fail. SWG is officially off the hook. There's a new king of collapse, and his name is TOR. Pity Star Wars games have to keep carrying this banner.
I almost forgot about that...though technically Project Copernicus never made it out of a few screenshots, so I'm not sure if that counts.