Dynamic Events were first introduced as a concept for Guild Wars: Utopia back in 2006, long before the release of Rift
Exactly, besides how can anyone even compare rifts to DE's?
They are not even anything close to PQ's.
Rifts are static never changing spawn points who all follow more or less the same path.
Wave 1, Wave 2 etc etc etc.
Dynamic events are also scripted but they are not static , far more diverse usually actively tell and carry a story and they can make real persistent changes to the world. I have never seen any of those traits in either the Rifts or the PQ's.
I don't really care who comes up with the ideas I'm more interested in the company that implements them alongside a well thought out structure and with a certain quality (how the idea is packaged).
Its not about any one thing that makes GW2 a big deal its about the overall vision and how all of these things are tied together. you can reduce each individual concept back to its raw parts and say that its not origional but the overall package on offer is what is so special and the value for money that is on offer.
Beyond the obvious timing of some MMO release dates to coincide with GW2, Trion announced today that they are implementing what they call "PvP Normalization" in their next patch. Apparently, PvP Normalization is taking away the PvP specific stat benefits from gear to make it more about player skill.
I applaud ANet for forcing other developers to re-evaluate these aging MMO concepts, but you really gotta feel sorry for all the people who spent weeks / months grinding PvP just to have their stats go *poof*.
Maybe im wrong but, GW1 already did that, like any other e-spot game out there. WoW is all about gear, Korean MMOs are all about gear, but not all the MMOs are like that: in swtor ur earn ur BM gear in a week, and the gap between BM and WH gear is not a big deal. The SPvP in warhammer from T1 to T3 was normalized, and again same in swtor from level 10-49. Anet is not forcing anything GW2 is a casual e-sport MMO, easy like that.
Yeah, and Wow borrowed actually a lot for the great PvP revamp it did a few months after release.
But with GW2 the whole gaming community including the devs think it will be large so they are borrowing stuff from it even before launch. Borrowing a feature you think is nice is a good idea but it is even better to actually wait and try it a while instead of just beta testing it quickly and make big changes only based on this.
As have been said before in this thread: Trion is making a bad decision here because the feature were made for a very different game and just taking part of the feature (which is less gear focus) is not a good idea. They should instead do like GW1 and have PvE only skills and gear so that they could flag the worst OP gear as PvE only. That would work but here all you do once you hit max is grinding gear and PvP, this will just split up those 2 camps totally and more or less give the players less effective endgame.
Originally posted by Badaboom So you got SWTOR going F2P. WoW, TSW and RIFT releasing patches & expansions on or close to the GW2 release date. Guess we should start calling it the GW2 effect.
I like it. Lol. Hopefully we are seeing a dawn of innovation. Not that i am saying from what i have seen of gw2 is particularly innovative. It does possess the possibility though. Watching these games scrambling makes it fun too.
Agreed. Regardless of whether you like or hate GW2, all of what we are seeing, the GW2 effect", I believe is a good thing. Though GW2 will be the game for me, I think it shold be seen as a compliment when Trion "copies" you. Kudos to Trion for coming along into the future of mmos :-)
Here's the mystery in all this. Sure, among forum goers, bloggers and hardcore MMO fans the game is making a splash. The big mystery is what's happening OUTSIDE of the core gaming community? This is WoW territory. This is the territory that SWTOR or RIFT weren't able to penetrate. THAT's my question - how far will this game reach?
If in 1982 we played with the current mentality, we would have burned down all the pac man games since the red ghost was clearly OP. Instead we just got better at the game.
"Normal" items are nothing new if you take RPG as genre globally. It seems that only MMORPGs suffered from "ridiculous stat" items. Nothing innovative if you ask me, but still good.
Main MMO at the moment: Guild Wars 2 Waiting for: Pathfinder Online
Dynamic Events were first introduced as a concept for Guild Wars: Utopia back in 2006, long before the release of Rift
Exactly, besides how can anyone even compare rifts to DE's?
They are not even anything close to PQ's.
Rifts are static never changing spawn points who all follow more or less the same path.
Wave 1, Wave 2 etc etc etc.
Dynamic events are also scripted but they are not static , far more diverse usually actively tell and carry a story and they can make real persistent changes to the world. I have never seen any of those traits in either the Rifts or the PQ's.
Lol, looks like you didnt played GW2 BW. All the DE in the game are statics with stages, Collect, Kill and then Kill the Big boss or protect that guy from A to B, same with the invasions, once you learn where it will happen, all you need to do is wait. And i do remember how rift and invasions changed the world around. I will play the game, mostly because is a e-sport and casual MMO, so i dont even need to level up all the way to 80 and at the end of the honey moon stage, most of the people will be there for the same reason, like it was in GW1, ¨the competitive PvP¨ or ¨sPvP¨, The PvE after a month will be bored, even more when you dont even need to do it, i mean i can get my ¨cosmetic gear¨ doing PvP, and still i dont really need it. The PvE is GW2 after 80 is just useless if u are there for the PvP, and most of the people who will play GW2 is there for, guess what, ¨the PvP¨.
Dynamic events are also scripted but they are not static , far more diverse usually actively tell and carry a story and they can make real persistent changes to the world. I have never seen any of those traits in either the Rifts or the PQ's.
Now I looking forward to playing GW2 as much as everyone else on these forums, but this just isn't correct. Dynamic Events do not make any greater change to the world than Rifts do in Rift. The spawning of dynamic events isn't any more random that Rifts and I'd say in the starting areas its even less random and the event always plays out exactly the same way influenced only by player involvement which determines success/failure, pretty much the same as zone events in Rift.
For example, in the last stress test I started a new character in Queensdale. I had to clear bandits off the bridge from the starting town 4 times in the 3 hours I was played. I had to stop bandits from blowing up the water pipes 2 times and repaired broken water pipes 3 times and made an antidote for the poisoned water 3 times and stopped the bandits from burning the hay at the farm 2 times and killed the giant wyrm at the farm 2 times and killed the bandit lieutenant in the cave 2 times (I hate that guy) and protected the guy going to the centaur armoury 3 times and so on.
GW2 does a much better job of telling the story of each event with voice acting and so forth but it doesn't provide persistant changes any more than Rift does and in the starter areas is even less diverse in its events than Rift. Even in the second human zone I was seeing the same events repeating multiple times.
For example, there was an event to stop Krait capturing humans at a coastal village. We failed that, so that then spawned an event to rescue humans which we succeeded at (don't think it had a fail condition). The game then spawned the first event again and Krait were again capturing humans at the village.
DAoC had skill caps, but never had gear normalization (and even less after ToA of course). Not to mention the rank grind which was just as bad if not worse than gear grinds in other games, and made veteran characters just as overpowered.
By the way, UO was already a game with PvP were gear was mostly irrelevant. That was 17+ years ago... And so was Asheron's Call.
Respect, walk, what did you say? Respect, walk Are you talkin' to me? Are you talkin' to me? - PANTERA at HELLFEST 2023
GW2 was not the first to do this, and will not be the last.
Also, didn't GW1 have it also?
We can certainrly point to past games but I believe that this recent change of heart at Trion is in direct response to what ArenaNet has done with GW2. Not to say that GW2 was the first but it is clearly making an impact on other games even before its release.
Seems like a good idea for Rift. You have separate factions, but for PvE content, faction members can work together, essentially doubling the pool of people available for PvE content. It sounds like they're moving more towards a system like TSW or GW2.
I especially like the PvP normalization. I think player builds will still have an impact, but I'm all for skill based pvp instead of pvp based on a time grind.
** edit ** Also, it's no secret that Trion is very responsive to changes in the industry and their player base. It would be more surprising if other games made changes to their core systems, but for Trion, making changes to accommodate new things in the industry is pretty standard.
I can not remember winning or losing a single debate on the internet.
Dynamic events are also scripted but they are not static , far more diverse usually actively tell and carry a story and they can make real persistent changes to the world. I have never seen any of those traits in either the Rifts or the PQ's.
Now I looking forward to playing GW2 as much as everyone else on these forums, but this just isn't correct. Dynamic Events do not make any greater change to the world than Rifts do in Rift. The spawning of dynamic events isn't any more random that Rifts and I'd say in the starting areas its even less random and the event always plays out exactly the same way influenced only by player involvement which determines success/failure, pretty much the same as zone events in Rift.
For example, in the last stress test I started a new character in Queensdale. I had to clear bandits off the bridge from the starting town 4 times in the 3 hours I was played. I had to stop bandits from blowing up the water pipes 2 times and repaired broken water pipes 3 times and made an antidote for the poisoned water 3 times and stopped the bandits from burning the hay at the farm 2 times and killed the giant wyrm at the farm 2 times and killed the bandit lieutenant in the cave 2 times (I hate that guy) and protected the guy going to the centaur armoury 3 times and so on.
GW2 does a much better job of telling the story of each event with voice acting and so forth but it doesn't provide persistant changes any more than Rift does and in the starter areas is even less diverse in its events than Rift. Even in the second human zone I was seeing the same events repeating multiple times.
For example, there was an event to stop Krait capturing humans at a coastal village. We failed that, so that then spawned an event to rescue humans which we succeeded at (don't think it had a fail condition). The game then spawned the first event again and Krait were again capturing humans at the village.
However, there should be more meta-events on late game areas that could or could not slow down this whole "repeat" thing, but its yet to be seen. If Orr will be at least 30% like that, it will be great.
They also need to be more difficult which would make them more "failable". It really adds to whole PvE fun factor.
Main MMO at the moment: Guild Wars 2 Waiting for: Pathfinder Online
Dynamic events are also scripted but they are not static , far more diverse usually actively tell and carry a story and they can make real persistent changes to the world. I have never seen any of those traits in either the Rifts or the PQ's.
Lol, looks like you didnt played GW2 BW. All the DE in the game are statics with stages, Collect, Kill and then Kill the Big boss or protect that guy from A to B, same with the invasions, once you learn where it will happen, all you need to do is wait.
you are over simplifying it
DEs have conditional branch outcomes leading to new DEs, RIFT has nothing like that
All Trion does is copy every game mechanic ever made and puts it into their own game. They are not progressing the genre at all, just plagarizing everything else other people do. I can't be surprised that they are doing something like this. While I applaud them for how much content and work they put into the game (making the sub fee worth it), everything feels like a total rip off and not as fresh and new as more innovative designers create. I think the main reason I lost interest in the game was because they kept dumbing everything down to easy mode levels of play. I want to play a game, not watch a boring ass movie of my character auto attacking stuff down.
Sounds like Trion are a third rate version of the Borg! lol
As an pvp gamer this is great news, i realy hate progresion gear in pvp. There are lots of mmorpg i could have returnd to and do some pvp in, but the ammount of time i need play cannon fodder until i get the proper gear is unacceptable so i ignored em instead.
I will most likely stil loose to veteran players but the gear difference is something i refused to put up with if pvp is my only goal.
Sometimes I wonder if you people play the same game as I am playing.
You mentioned queensdale right.... if you would continue exploring you would find the contested camp.
That right there is a clear peristent change to the world.
The camp stays in centaur possesion until the player comes/helps to liberate it. There are plenty of more events like this.
The further you progress into the game the more seemingly unrelated events are actually part of one big meta event.
Thats all I can say on that note.
I never claimed DE are not scripted, but they are not static as rifts or PQ's. Its nearly impossible for one person to see the full scope one 1 event. The problem with the opinions of people who only experience BWE's is that they don't really see how dynamic these events are. Because they are limited to the "tutorial" part of the world.
Of course you are only seeing the same small events over and over again.
Look, players making a dungeon available for play is a very persistent change to the world.
Comments
Ideas are so easy to have for anyone that you can't pretend to have some "original idea" anymore in any domain.
Meanwhile, the gamedesign, GW2's way of implementing those ideas, is clearly original. Which is what the job consists in, basically ;-)
***** Before hitting that reply button, please READ the WHOLE thread you're about to post in *****
Exactly, besides how can anyone even compare rifts to DE's?
They are not even anything close to PQ's.
Rifts are static never changing spawn points who all follow more or less the same path.
Wave 1, Wave 2 etc etc etc.
Dynamic events are also scripted but they are not static , far more diverse usually actively tell and carry a story and they can make real persistent changes to the world. I have never seen any of those traits in either the Rifts or the PQ's.
I don't really care who comes up with the ideas I'm more interested in the company that implements them alongside a well thought out structure and with a certain quality (how the idea is packaged).
Its not about any one thing that makes GW2 a big deal its about the overall vision and how all of these things are tied together. you can reduce each individual concept back to its raw parts and say that its not origional but the overall package on offer is what is so special and the value for money that is on offer.
Maybe im wrong but, GW1 already did that, like any other e-spot game out there. WoW is all about gear, Korean MMOs are all about gear, but not all the MMOs are like that: in swtor ur earn ur BM gear in a week, and the gap between BM and WH gear is not a big deal. The SPvP in warhammer from T1 to T3 was normalized, and again same in swtor from level 10-49. Anet is not forcing anything GW2 is a casual e-sport MMO, easy like that.
I don't know about anyone else, but I'll be too busy playing GW2 to come here at that time.
Yep, and DAoC before it in 2001.
Yeah, and Wow borrowed actually a lot for the great PvP revamp it did a few months after release.
But with GW2 the whole gaming community including the devs think it will be large so they are borrowing stuff from it even before launch. Borrowing a feature you think is nice is a good idea but it is even better to actually wait and try it a while instead of just beta testing it quickly and make big changes only based on this.
As have been said before in this thread: Trion is making a bad decision here because the feature were made for a very different game and just taking part of the feature (which is less gear focus) is not a good idea. They should instead do like GW1 and have PvE only skills and gear so that they could flag the worst OP gear as PvE only. That would work but here all you do once you hit max is grinding gear and PvP, this will just split up those 2 camps totally and more or less give the players less effective endgame.
Same could be said for ArcheAge 2 months after release.
And the point is?
Main MMO at the moment: Guild Wars 2
Waiting for: Pathfinder Online
Agreed. Regardless of whether you like or hate GW2, all of what we are seeing, the GW2 effect", I believe is a good thing. Though GW2 will be the game for me, I think it shold be seen as a compliment when Trion "copies" you. Kudos to Trion for coming along into the future of mmos :-)
If in 1982 we played with the current mentality, we would have burned down all the pac man games since the red ghost was clearly OP. Instead we just got better at the game.
More onto topic:
"Normal" items are nothing new if you take RPG as genre globally. It seems that only MMORPGs suffered from "ridiculous stat" items. Nothing innovative if you ask me, but still good.
Main MMO at the moment: Guild Wars 2
Waiting for: Pathfinder Online
Lol, looks like you didnt played GW2 BW. All the DE in the game are statics with stages, Collect, Kill and then Kill the Big boss or protect that guy from A to B, same with the invasions, once you learn where it will happen, all you need to do is wait. And i do remember how rift and invasions changed the world around. I will play the game, mostly because is a e-sport and casual MMO, so i dont even need to level up all the way to 80 and at the end of the honey moon stage, most of the people will be there for the same reason, like it was in GW1, ¨the competitive PvP¨ or ¨sPvP¨, The PvE after a month will be bored, even more when you dont even need to do it, i mean i can get my ¨cosmetic gear¨ doing PvP, and still i dont really need it. The PvE is GW2 after 80 is just useless if u are there for the PvP, and most of the people who will play GW2 is there for, guess what, ¨the PvP¨.
if DAOC had normalization, they kicked it out the door w TOA in 2003
EQ2 fan sites
This ^
GW2 was not the first to do this, and will not be the last.
Also, didn't GW1 have it also?
Now I looking forward to playing GW2 as much as everyone else on these forums, but this just isn't correct. Dynamic Events do not make any greater change to the world than Rifts do in Rift. The spawning of dynamic events isn't any more random that Rifts and I'd say in the starting areas its even less random and the event always plays out exactly the same way influenced only by player involvement which determines success/failure, pretty much the same as zone events in Rift.
For example, in the last stress test I started a new character in Queensdale. I had to clear bandits off the bridge from the starting town 4 times in the 3 hours I was played. I had to stop bandits from blowing up the water pipes 2 times and repaired broken water pipes 3 times and made an antidote for the poisoned water 3 times and stopped the bandits from burning the hay at the farm 2 times and killed the giant wyrm at the farm 2 times and killed the bandit lieutenant in the cave 2 times (I hate that guy) and protected the guy going to the centaur armoury 3 times and so on.
GW2 does a much better job of telling the story of each event with voice acting and so forth but it doesn't provide persistant changes any more than Rift does and in the starter areas is even less diverse in its events than Rift. Even in the second human zone I was seeing the same events repeating multiple times.
For example, there was an event to stop Krait capturing humans at a coastal village. We failed that, so that then spawned an event to rescue humans which we succeeded at (don't think it had a fail condition). The game then spawned the first event again and Krait were again capturing humans at the village.
The Enlightened take things Lightly
DAoC had skill caps, but never had gear normalization (and even less after ToA of course). Not to mention the rank grind which was just as bad if not worse than gear grinds in other games, and made veteran characters just as overpowered.
By the way, UO was already a game with PvP were gear was mostly irrelevant. That was 17+ years ago... And so was Asheron's Call.
Respect, walk
Are you talkin' to me? Are you talkin' to me?
- PANTERA at HELLFEST 2023
We can certainrly point to past games but I believe that this recent change of heart at Trion is in direct response to what ArenaNet has done with GW2. Not to say that GW2 was the first but it is clearly making an impact on other games even before its release.
Seems like a good idea for Rift. You have separate factions, but for PvE content, faction members can work together, essentially doubling the pool of people available for PvE content. It sounds like they're moving more towards a system like TSW or GW2.
I especially like the PvP normalization. I think player builds will still have an impact, but I'm all for skill based pvp instead of pvp based on a time grind.
** edit **
Also, it's no secret that Trion is very responsive to changes in the industry and their player base. It would be more surprising if other games made changes to their core systems, but for Trion, making changes to accommodate new things in the industry is pretty standard.
I can not remember winning or losing a single debate on the internet.
However, there should be more meta-events on late game areas that could or could not slow down this whole "repeat" thing, but its yet to be seen. If Orr will be at least 30% like that, it will be great.
They also need to be more difficult which would make them more "failable". It really adds to whole PvE fun factor.
Main MMO at the moment: Guild Wars 2
Waiting for: Pathfinder Online
you are over simplifying it
DEs have conditional branch outcomes leading to new DEs, RIFT has nothing like that
EQ2 fan sites
Sounds like Trion are a third rate version of the Borg! lolAs an pvp gamer this is great news, i realy hate progresion gear in pvp. There are lots of mmorpg i could have returnd to and do some pvp in, but the ammount of time i need play cannon fodder until i get the proper gear is unacceptable so i ignored em instead.
I will most likely stil loose to veteran players but the gear difference is something i refused to put up with if pvp is my only goal.
Not far from truth. The original Borg is the almighty Blizzard.
Sometimes I wonder if you people play the same game as I am playing.
You mentioned queensdale right.... if you would continue exploring you would find the contested camp.
That right there is a clear peristent change to the world.
The camp stays in centaur possesion until the player comes/helps to liberate it. There are plenty of more events like this.
The further you progress into the game the more seemingly unrelated events are actually part of one big meta event.
Thats all I can say on that note.
I never claimed DE are not scripted, but they are not static as rifts or PQ's. Its nearly impossible for one person to see the full scope one 1 event. The problem with the opinions of people who only experience BWE's is that they don't really see how dynamic these events are. Because they are limited to the "tutorial" part of the world.
Of course you are only seeing the same small events over and over again.
Look, players making a dungeon available for play is a very persistent change to the world.
Take that for what its worth.