Nope, I think it went over your head. I never said GW2 is no different than other MMORPGs. I said the hype for GW2 is no different. Which no one has posted any actual facts debunking this. People are excited, it's a new game. It's to be expected.
I'm just saying taking opinions of fans who have already payed money for the game, and videos made for the media or by other fans, isn't a good idea compared to playing it yourself. I have the last 8 years worth of MMORPG releases to back up that statement, what do you have?
and how you can't see that still amazes me.. yes some is similar but overall it's very differen't for many reason as already stated before
And if in the blue if true you should be able to see the difference because it's not hard to see
We were all bought by Arenanet to advertise this game and what we say holds no value since all we have to say is scripted by Arenanet and we get paid to do so.
And there are absolutly no facts whatsoever to backup this games hype. I mean comeon, unless he personally plays the game and sees this for himself, then it will remain hype and thus never be fact regardless of the coreographed videos and the trained Arenanet employees who come on this site and go "ya its true, I've seen it with my own two eyes >.>"
The only real facts regarding the game as far as people liking disliking:
1. Some folks have played it for X number of hours/days/weekends (and some beta testers longer)
2. Some people like it and think it will 'go'. THE game for them.
3. Some think it isn't very different from other games in it's basis.
That's pretty much it.
No one actually knows whether it will go on to be a b BIG title that no one will want to be without.
Nor does anything know if it will prove to be 'just another game'.
I base my own (hopeful) opinion on it being a game I can enjoy on the fact that shortly after I started my 1st BWE, I knew I wanted a completion bonus based (mostly) on exploring every corner of every map. Haven't felt that way since my 1st MMO 18 years ago. Will that do it for everyone? Not at all. But it does do it for me.
OP - Let your better half play, watch her game for a couple days and roll an alt in the off hours. She can always come back and play with you if you decide you like it a few days in. Down-level scaling, ftw.
Why is it always one extreme or the other with some people?
If I'm playing a game, it's not with all of my free time.
Play this situation out in your head, just for a moment. People insist on having an open mind, so please do so.
You finish work, go out for some fun, maybe frizbee in the park, a trip to the arcade, shopping or just a nice walk with your family and then come home. Eat some dinner with the kids and then after everything is settled down, decide to have a nice drink with your wife while playing a video game for the remaining three hours of the night. We can be cooperative, laugh and have fun.
Seriously, WTF? Some people actually have real lives which involve having some pleasure in video games at some point. It's not "all or nothing".
Normally I choose not to respond to negative posts, but damn, get a clue. Some people actually have normal lives, I know, it's weird.
Posting an honest question on an MMO website is free, saves me from any impulse buying and stimulates a conversation. Win-Win. If that annoys you, too bad.
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Because it wasn't close to "all or nothing" in my post. You have been crying and lamenting for multiple posts now about how you don't have a choice about playing, You have complained that you have been looking at threads for days yet can't find anything to like.
If you already have the attitude to "decide to have a nice drink with your wife while playing a video game for the remaining three hours of the night. We can be cooperative, laugh and have fun" then you don't need this thread at all. If that's your goal when you play GW2 it'll be damn easy to achieve...
...and there were already about a dozen easy-to-find threads on the first few pages of this forum that would've informed you of that.
A lot of people think it's a very fun game. Either you will or you won't when you play, if you play.
Getting bent out of shape when someone calls you out on your posts in this thread - trust me the issue is with you not me.
Have a nice day.
My goal was to stimulate a positive conversation about the pro's and con's of the game. If you feel the need to "call me out" for doing so, so be it. If you mistake that for crying, oh well. That's just your internet rage speaking for you.
So I have been trying to find features and videos, wiki's and websites. I have been scouring the internet for things that will make me interested, nothing has so far. The game simply looks like exactly every other theme park MMO out there. Am I wrong? Am I the delusional one, or is everyone else, because I simply don't get the hype.
Not sure if your delusional, just that you have a different view of it. Personally I didn't think to highly of the game at first. When I played my second BWE that's when I started to understand how the game worked. The quests are presented in GW2 in such a way that if you think or act like they are the same quest structure as in WOW/Rift you will dislike it. Simply because you can't handle the quest like that. Some of the Quests have DE's attached to them. You won't know this unless you stick around or the DE activates...which it doesn't all the time. Not beacuse its on cd, but more so because something else didn't happen. Kind of like a bit of randomness to it.
You mostly explore and the quests come to you. However there are binoculars on the map that you can go to where there is a scout who will give you places on the map to do the heart quests. These are designed to ease a person intot he game. Keep in mind they become more rare as you level up.
You said you liked exploration that in itself makes this game really shine. Example...you just pick a direction and go..things just pop up. There is no goal other than your journey. Someone gave an example of Skyrim. I 100% agree with that. It's like your thrust into a world and they just tell you to go. You kind of create your own journey as you progress. This becomes apparent when you get to say level 7+. You sort of have to make your own objective, the hearts are there to kind of anchor you to something so you dont get too lost.
Not sure on the hype though. I would leave that out of this because none of that is relevant. It just depends on what you like. Honestly I would just have your wife get it and you watch her play. Sit behind her or to the side and just go through the motions discovering the world together...
There are a lot of concepts in this game that are tweaked considerably to present things in a more interesting no envasive way, that other's have covered.
From the video's I watched the game looks like a Rift on steroids, parts of every other successful game meshed into one, with a few new things or two sprinkled on top. You have questing, the same Destroy, Deliver, Discover, Gather and Defend quests that plague every other theme park MMO.
I like Rift, think its an awesome game with only potential to grow. That being said I would say in the way your looking at it yeah I guess it is a cluster of different ideas, presented a different way. Quests are there but you kind of dont have to do them, more so there to have an an anchor in case you dont know what to do. you go to the heart quests and do those. Which in turn sometimes pops up DE's. Also you can collect skill points which you need a lot of..never skimp on those.
They have dynamic events, which frankly are just taking Rift and Warhammer online and mashing their public quest systems together. I've watched many videos on those in paticular.
I think they are more advanced than Rift/Warhammer. Same basic premise though. However DE's start rathter simple but branch out as you get higher in level. With the leveling down system you can even come back to old places to do the content as it's never under leveled to you.
I did however watch an interesting video about being able to discover hidden places, and that was interesting. My favorite time in games was before the in-game map system of Everquest. Navigating zones you had already explored was still a chore until you eventually memorized the entire zone and spawn points.
Yes I love exploring and this game has that. I remember in one BWE I was exploring and do to some feedback in the very next BWE they had added these puzzles called Vistas. They are jumping puzzles. I think the first one I did was on an asurian pyramid. Took me around 20 mins to get to the top. However they have other puzzles in game that leads to hidden bosses. I watched this one video of this Boss that was part of a DE..but there was also a Meta boss that you would not know is there unless you collected these keys and then attuned them with the proper elements. Then you jumped through a portal and you faced this boss. Thing is I think the keys are not dropped for everyone like if one person finds the key another person can't find it or something like that (speculation of course).
They have no holy trinity... yea, they actually do. They take the DPS, Tank, Healer role and rename them to Support, Control and Damage. Whether it is the classic trinity or not, it is still a trinity. I even watched a video where a developer stated the Thief class could become a tank if he wanted, Irony or just cursed to fill the classic trinity? That's directly from Rift.
I'm going to see if I can pin point how this system works. Okay so if you played RIft lets take say the Rogue soul and compare them. In Rift the rogue can tank and dps. Can't really heal itself except for bard and a couple of skills from the assassin tree. They can clearly specc into a tank role, and a support role but can't really heal themselves freely say like a chloromancer or cleric. In GW2 I'll take the ranger and thief...bot of those professions can heal but they are not healers because they can heal themselves, and some...some aoe healing. In GW2 you are responsible for healing yourself so your not really playing a dedicated role. There is not really agrro perse or rather no way of keeping it.
So my ranger can switch from a long bow to a sword and horn..send my bear in to attack and run up to melee, then if I'm getting my butt kicked I switch weapons maybe back to bow and run out now I'm dpsing...any class can do this. They just do it a bitt differently. You can however trait yourself to be more robust, or more dps not sure about healing though. But you will never be a dedicated tank. You wont' see looking for guardian or warrior tank. Heck you say 5 ppl needed for this dungeon...can have all same classes really doesn't matter because you all can be traited differently.
What people are really saying is that anyone can hold the attention of the mob if need be to allow the other person a chance to escape or recoupe. but no one is a dedicated go to tank, healer, although you all dps.
No player housing? Seriously? Is what comes to mind, I would think after all the immersion they are hoping for that player housing would have been one of the first things they implemented.
Rift is getting this with the expansion. Also as some have stated they will bring this post launch. Not sure when though.
What makes You want to buy Guild Wars? Hopefully some of that will rub off on me.
GW2 will appeal to you if you shrug off the old ways and open your mind as some have stated. At least the appeal to understand the game. Whether you want to continue is up to you. I find the game refreshing. It caters to my need to explore and get into mischief. My first act is to roll a ranger and collect all the pets then, I will wander off in a direction and see how many skill points and vistas I can get. Or I'll probably finish exploring all the beginner areas to level up faster as I get all my pets.
It seems you spouse wants to get the game. I say go with that and install it and see if you like it or not. Also roll a fresh character and give yourself 1Hr from the time you get into the game and explore..see how you feel. If nothing then yeah I wouldn't force it. You also seem already inclined not to like it. But here is hoping you do. Oh and if you need a explora-buddy lol look me up, or PM me here its all good.
I do like GW2. I pre-purchased, have played every beta weekend, and will be there for the the minute head start goes live. I'm just saying, there were people who have hyped every single MMORPG to date and it's no different for GW2. You need to play a game to know if you like it, don't trust others opinions.
and you are still missing the point completely.. but nm I give up on this point because for whatever reason you have a brick wall built in your head you are unwilling to see past on the subject.
The OP asked why other people like the game. I am telling him that it doesn't matter why people like the game, he needs to try it for himself. I don't see what point I am missing exactly.
not that the point about where "hype" comes from.. nevermind
And you know what? For every single other MMORPG, the fans said the exact same things. We know, you love GW2. It can do no wrong. This post isn't about you, though. It's about the OP asking why people enjoy the game. I am simply telling him not to buy into the hype, it's not going to get him any further than it got people who purchased the last 100 MMORPG releases based on media and player reviews.
As oppose to all those people who think GW2 is just the same as any other MMO post 2004?
I do find it funny though that through all this where you have been trying to say that GW2 is no different you don't actually show any evidence to prove your point even though others have shown evidence to debunk your claims.
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I don't need to post evidence as to why playing a game is a better way to tell if you like it than reading reviews from fans or watching videos made for the media. That's just common sense.
*woosh*
straight over your head.
Nope, I think it went over your head. I never said GW2 is no different than other MMORPGs. I said the hype for GW2 is no different. Which no one has posted any actual facts debunking this. People are excited, it's a new game. It's to be expected.
I'm just saying taking opinions of fans who have already payed money for the game, and videos made for the media or by other fans, isn't a good idea compared to playing it yourself. I have the last 8 years worth of MMORPG releases to back up that statement, what do you have?
No, what you have there is a nice collection oflogical fallacies backing you up. The last 8 years of releases are not important because this is not the same game as anything to have released in the last 8 years or even remotely similar, nor is the market itself.
Also; as you are so willing to constantly remind everyone you purchased the game that sort of gives you away.
And at this point I'm really done my discussion with you. You change the subject and then complain that people aren't following you and then use the 'but i bought gw2 as well!' card to try persuade people you are being honest when you are not. I called you out on you saying GW2 was like SWTOR when it came to the amount of information available prior to launch and you have been proven otherwise. The hype is also entirely different as most of the 'hype', if you can call it that, for GW2 has been done via word of mouth as oppose to being from the developers, not to mention the amount of video footage available of all the differeny systems that have been described by the developers but.. If you want to continue to make yourself look untrustworthy then keep posting your misinformation so even more can see.
Originally posted by Magnetia I generally found that whoever had the most health at the time should be the tank. If team-mates are down and you have agro, your job is to kite/tank/cc until another friend can get revived. The trinity of roles ebbs and flows depending on wahts happening in the battle.
Indeed. There are constantly people tanking/healing/DPS'ing, changing roles on the fly doesn't mean these roles aren't fulfilled any more. It's a different take on the trinity, but it's definitely still there.
... if you're going to change the definition of trinity to be so loose that any game where you take damage, give damage and heal from damage is a trinity game, then so is Halo.
I think that makes the term so diffuse as to be nearly 100% useless.
When people talk about GW2 not being a trinity game, they're specifically meaning the holy trinity of healing, damage and tanking.
... and it's true, you can't be a tank, or a healer, the game simply doesn't support those as roles.
There is a sort of soft trinity, but it's support/control/damage, where tanking is more a subset of control, rather than being a really important role in and of itself, and healing is a subset of support.... and nobody is just a support, or a control (Hence it being a soft trinity)
When people are talking about a holy trinity game, and what GW2 is definitely not, is a game where the three basic roles are 'person who takes all the damage' 'people who dish out damage' and 'person who heals the damage'.
Roles 1 and 3 simply aren't workable, due to no aggro control, and heals that, quite frankly, suck compared to any MMORPG that uses the normal holy trinity model.
When people are talking about GW2 not being a trinity game, they're specifically referring to the lack of a viable tank or healer role, and the fact that characters don't have set roles, nor is that the most efficient way to play to try and wedge yourself into a niche you stick to.
yeah you explained that way better. Makes sense though. I can see how people still want to call it both though. First we would have to define trinity or holy trinity. I still think it has some trinity hence your soft example. But as for holy..definitely not.
Mewhead actually said there is a kind of trinity, which is the same as the OPs observations. They just aren't as static as they traditionally are.
I guess both people could be right. The trinity is the fact that you can do all 3, but its not dedicated or holy because everyone can do everything...
it's not the holy trinity because there is no straight tank or healer role.. you can argue all day control and support have some tank and healer "mechanics" but they are not tank or healer roles like in holy trinity games.
I angered the clerk in a clothing shop today. She asked me what size I was and I said actual, because I am not to scale. I like vending machines 'cause snacks are better when they fall. If I buy a candy bar at a store, oftentimes, I will drop it... so that it achieves its maximum flavor potential. --Mitch Hedberg
Thanks Graey, I appreciate the response. I also liked Rift, but after a while it did get a little stale.
The new Trinity feature of Guild Wars 2 does seem like an "On the fly" advancement of the Soul System from Rift.
I would agree it did. I have stopped playing for a couple months now. I log on here and there to check on things. I do like their update cycle and I will definitely purchase the expansion. I don't have a lot of time so I'll mostly do a lot of solo work.
It would but I'd say its a more evolved form or rather a horizontal form of the soul system. In that one character instead of switching out souls to do healing, dps, or tanking...can just do all 3. The ranger could just 2h sword it up while healing his pet..never really needing to switch skills. Honestly I don't switch them much lol...I'm sooo lazy
However you will quickly meet death if you dont switch out your pet when it's health gets low haha...and you will die a lot...i mean a lot lot lol. So in Rift you have to wait till out of combat, switch to dps from heals then carry on or respect to be more efficient in one or the other etc. GW2...switch to short bow to long bow, then cast poison shot, switch to a 1h sword and horn call those pesky birds to fly in and peck the opponent..which is super funny. All while your bear..name him cuddles is tearing the goblin bandit a new one.
Mewhead actually said there is a kind of trinity, which is the same as the OPs observations. They just aren't as static as they traditionally are.
I guess both people could be right. The trinity is the fact that you can do all 3, but its not dedicated or holy because everyone can do everything...
it's not the holy trinity because there is no straight tank or healer role.. you can argue all day control and support have some tank and healer "mechanics" but they are not tank or healer roles like in holy trinity games.
Yeah I know that but I'm looking more on the outside of how this is worded. In which you have the trinity tank, heals, dps, but yet your one toon is the trinity. So in respect you are all able to be a trinity but not in the traditional restrictive way. I agree and disagree lol...weird eh. Yes I would agree its not holy...definitely not that. More so as meow said soft..yes soft.. lol. So again I see why some say it is and some say it's not. Holy I would agree it is not, but soft trinity when you look at it then yes it is. But to a varying degree. Someone has to be the center of attention but since its everyone then what 20% tanky, everyone heals themselves so...15% heals and the rest dps cause let's face it we are all trying to kill what ever mob we are facing at that moment. And you know people go to that death stance or whatever with a quickness.
Mewhead actually said there is a kind of trinity, which is the same as the OPs observations. They just aren't as static as they traditionally are.
I guess both people could be right. The trinity is the fact that you can do all 3, but its not dedicated or holy because everyone can do everything...
it's not the holy trinity because there is no straight tank or healer role.. you can argue all day control and support have some tank and healer "mechanics" but they are not tank or healer roles like in holy trinity games.
Yeah I know that but I'm looking more on the outside of how this is worded. In which you have the trinity tank, heals, dps, but yet your one toon is the trinity. So in respect you are all able to be a trinity but not in the traditional restrictive way. I agree and disagree lol...weird eh. Yes I would agree its not holy...definitely not that. More so as meow said soft..yes soft.. lol. So again I see why some say it is and some say it's not. Holy I would agree it is not, but soft trinity when you look at it then yes it is. But to a varying degree. Someone has to be the center of attention but since its everyone then what 20% tanky, everyone heals themselves so...15% heals and the rest dps cause let's face it we are all trying to kill what ever mob we are facing at that moment. And you know people go to that death stance or whatever with a quickness.
but that's just it there is no tank or healer period. So you can't just say you can be all 3 when two don't even exist. There are pieces of what you may call a tank although very loose since there is no aggro control or taunt type skills and pieces of what you would call a healer but not enough to say the game has healer or tank roles at all which is why you have control and support.. So it's not just saying one person can play all three of the holy trinity when two of the 3 aren't really even there.
I angered the clerk in a clothing shop today. She asked me what size I was and I said actual, because I am not to scale. I like vending machines 'cause snacks are better when they fall. If I buy a candy bar at a store, oftentimes, I will drop it... so that it achieves its maximum flavor potential. --Mitch Hedberg
My goal was to stimulate a positive conversation about the pro's and con's of the game. If you feel the need to "call me out" for doing so, so be it. If you mistake that for crying, oh well. That's just your internet rage speaking for you.
I'm sorry. My bad, based on:
Originally posted by agnostic4eve
Thanks Graey, I appreciate the response. I also liked Rift, but after a while it did get a little stale.
The new Trinity feature of Guild Wars 2 does seem like an "On the fly" advancement of the Soul System from Rift.
maybe/hopefully you are really looking for answers as opposed to 2/3rds of the "Make me like GW2" posts we've seen.
One of the big differences between GW2 and RIFT (or most any WoW Clone) is while you can Spec and Gear to be more effective at Damage, Support, or Control - your Character is never exclusively performing that function in a group. Boons (Ally Buffs or Support) are often applied while using a Weapon Attack (Damage) as well as Conditions like Blind or Cripple (Control).
There are no Aggro Taunts to keep a Mob's attention on a character. Also most everybody can survive 1-2 attacks from a mob but will be 2-3-shotted if they try to "go toe-to-toe" without avoiding attacks through movement, dodging, and the occasional damage avoidance ability.
So where I really see the difference is everybody can and is most effective when they understand and are able to play all 3 roles pretty much at the same time.
Some have accused GW2 of having nothing more than zerg mechanics in group play and to someone who hasn't played in a group I can easily see where that perception comes from, but one of the things I love about the game is how dynamic and strategic combat can be. People stepping up and "taking turns" at protecting the group, or dropping Combo Fields to boost damage, or clearing Conditions while giving others time to recover and heal themselves back up - all while staying mobile dodging mob attacks or AoE and being able to cast on the move... I just find it so much more visceral, exciting, and simply fun than any other MMO combat I've played.
Mewhead actually said there is a kind of trinity, which is the same as the OPs observations. They just aren't as static as they traditionally are.
I guess both people could be right. The trinity is the fact that you can do all 3, but its not dedicated or holy because everyone can do everything...
it's not the holy trinity because there is no straight tank or healer role.. you can argue all day control and support have some tank and healer "mechanics" but they are not tank or healer roles like in holy trinity games.
Yeah I know that but I'm looking more on the outside of how this is worded. In which you have the trinity tank, heals, dps, but yet your one toon is the trinity. So in respect you are all able to be a trinity but not in the traditional restrictive way. I agree and disagree lol...weird eh. Yes I would agree its not holy...definitely not that. More so as meow said soft..yes soft.. lol. So again I see why some say it is and some say it's not. Holy I would agree it is not, but soft trinity when you look at it then yes it is. But to a varying degree. Someone has to be the center of attention but since its everyone then what 20% tanky, everyone heals themselves so...15% heals and the rest dps cause let's face it we are all trying to kill what ever mob we are facing at that moment. And you know people go to that death stance or whatever with a quickness.
but that's just it there is no tank or healer period. So you can't just say you can be all 3 when two don't even exist. There are pieces of what you may call a tank although very loose since there is no aggro control or taunt type skills and pieces of what you would call a healer but not enough to say the game has healer or tank roles at all which is why you have control and support.. So it's not just saying one person can play all three of the holy trinity when two of the 3 aren't really even there.
Oh I see what your saying. Granted I did give percentages of how much I thought there were of them. But yeah now that you explained it like that I can see what you're getting at. I'm thinking since you can heal and you can hold the attention not necesarrily the agrro of a mob then they still exist in a way. Since in theory if you can heal even yourself then your doing one of the trinities. But again I see what your saying. Then what would you call this...hybrid system of roles haha.
Oh I see what your saying. Granted I did give percentages of how much I thought there were of them. But yeah now that you explained it like that I can see what you're getting at. I'm thinking since you can heal and you can hold the attention not necesarrily the agrro of a mob then they still exist in a way. Since in theory if you can heal even yourself then your doing one of the trinities. But again I see what your saying. Then what would you call this...hybrid system of roles haha.
i just call in enjoyable combat:)
I angered the clerk in a clothing shop today. She asked me what size I was and I said actual, because I am not to scale. I like vending machines 'cause snacks are better when they fall. If I buy a candy bar at a store, oftentimes, I will drop it... so that it achieves its maximum flavor potential. --Mitch Hedberg
Oh I see what your saying. Granted I did give percentages of how much I thought there were of them. But yeah now that you explained it like that I can see what you're getting at. I'm thinking since you can heal and you can hold the attention not necesarrily the agrro of a mob then they still exist in a way. Since in theory if you can heal even yourself then your doing one of the trinities. But again I see what your saying. Then what would you call this...hybrid system of roles haha.
i just call in enjoyable combat:)
Touche' Aerowyn...touche'
You win this round Wyn, but I'll be back...whahahthahahahahahaha...cough gack..swallowed fly gack...
Originally posted by Aerowyn first section in my sig is "hot topics" talks about all those things like trinity, the DE's and pretty much everything else.. game isn't for everyone but you don't seem to understand many aspects of the game.. i'd take some time if you really want more information on the game and watch the videos I put together in my sig
I've spent the last two days of my free time watching video's, Main Page, this site, Wiki's and Youtube. My comprehension is also decent. I am trying to figure out how and why.
Am I the delusional one, or is this becoming a cult fanaticism, where those inside understand and are brainwashed to see and follow, while those on the outside just look on and grimace.
As to forcing myself to like it. My wife is interested and wants me to partake, it's a rough situation to be in, trust me.
My gf was playing this Flyff game online. When one day she asked me if I wanna install the game and play with her. I wasn't really loving the idea of playing the game I don't have any interest in, but since she wanted me to play a game with her I installed the game and played with her for few days (or shall I say, she was boosting my ass for few days xD)...
I still didn't like the game, but I played it... Ofcourse I kept getting myself killed all the time, but well
The game can be really stupid to you, but you can still have fun in it with your wife, it's only a matter of how you look at it
"Happiness is not a destination. It is a method of life." -------------------------------
I've pre-purchased GW2, and I did so because the videos seemed to suggest that this game could be good for at least a month before moving on to something else, and that's a lot better than any MMO has done for me since Age of Conan (lasted a whole two months, pretty good).
After reading the OP's post, I will say to the OP that this game is about everything you've concluded it is. The game is an improved version of some older MMO titles. It isn't immersive and it isn't sandbox - it's a theme park through and through.
If you can handle that and want to seek out the few improved parts of a traditional MMO for some decent entertainment, this game may be a worth a buy. If you're not ready for a majority of the game to be a stale repeat of other MMOs with a sprinkle of new, then stay away, imo.
I've pre-purchased GW2, and I did so because the videos seemed to suggest that this game could be good for at least a month before moving on to something else, and that's a lot better than any MMO has done for me since Age of Conan (lasted a whole two months, pretty good).
After reading the OP's post, I will say to the OP that this game is about everything you've concluded it is. The game is an improved version of some older MMO titles. It isn't immersive and it isn't sandbox - it's a theme park through and through.
If you can handle that and want to seek out the few improved parts of a traditional MMO for some decent entertainment, this game may be a worth a buy. If you're not ready for a majority of the game to be a stale repeat of other MMOs with a sprinkle of new, then stay away, imo.
it's the most immersive themepark MMO i have played.. people have differn't perspectives on a lot of things
I angered the clerk in a clothing shop today. She asked me what size I was and I said actual, because I am not to scale. I like vending machines 'cause snacks are better when they fall. If I buy a candy bar at a store, oftentimes, I will drop it... so that it achieves its maximum flavor potential. --Mitch Hedberg
Basically, in a nutshell, not only is the OP not trying to convince himself to like the game he seriously has some misconceptions about the game (despite hours of footage hours of explanations and multiple stickies in these very own forums about the point, aspects, and features of this title.)
So in short, look at his history, and know that this thread is nothing to even bother with. Just a warning to late comers in here who might have missed the middle posts.
I don't think this is necessarily true.
There have been a number of people who have changed their opinions on GW2, both in favor of the game and against. Some people had preconceived notions about the game that later changed based on new information, and others played a BWE and decided that it wasn't what they were looking for.
I'd like to believe that the forums still have folks in them that use them for discussion and information gathering. This seems to be becoming less and less frequent, especially as we approach the launch of GW2 and passions rise.
And I do understand, in part, the OP's position. He's seen GW2 and doesn't react to it the the same way his wife/others do, but that's a reflection of people looking for different experiences in their free-time gaming.
"Loading screens" are not "instances". Your personal efforts to troll any game will not, in fact, impact the success or failure of said game.
I beta tested the original Guild Wars and was thoroughly unimpressed. When Guild wars 2 was announced I was even less impressed and frankly, just not interested. When release of the game came and went, I planned on just letting it pass me by.
However, recently my wife has been watching a few videos about the game and thinks she wants to give the game a try. I feel like a carnivore married to a vegetarian, which makes me a vegetarian as well, whether I like it or not.
So I have been trying to find features and videos, wiki's and websites. I have been scouring the internet for things that will make me interested, nothing has so far. The game simply looks like exactly every other theme park MMO out there. Am I wrong? Am I the delusional one, or is everyone else, because I simply don't get the hype.
From the video's I watched the game looks like a Rift on steroids, parts of every other successful game meshed into one, with a few new things or two sprinkled on top. You have questing, the same Destroy, Deliver, Discover, Gather and Defend quests that plague every other theme park MMO.
They have dynamic events, which frankly are just taking Rift and Warhammer online and mashing their public quest systems together. I've watched many videos on those in paticular.
I did however watch an interesting video about being able to discover hidden places, and that was interesting. My favorite time in games was before the in-game map system of Everquest. Navigating zones you had already explored was still a chore until you eventually memorized the entire zone and spawn points.
They have no holy trinity... yea, they actually do. They take the DPS, Tank, Healer role and rename them to Support, Control and Damage. Whether it is the classic trinity or not, it is still a trinity. I even watched a video where a developer stated the Thief class could become a tank if he wanted, Irony or just cursed to fill the classic trinity? That's directly from Rift.
No player housing? Seriously? Is what comes to mind, I would think after all the immersion they are hoping for that player housing would have been one of the first things they implemented.
PvP sounds interesting and if I do by the game it will generally be just to try out WvWvW PvP as that sounds rather interesting and maybe a throwback to my DAoC Days of playing a stealthed hunter during the castle seige waiting for a target for my spear.
In all honesty, I am trying to become interested, I really am. My goal was not to pick apart the game, but to make an informed decision on my own without having played the game. I missed the beta weekends, I know, shoot me or crucify me, or whatever.
What makes the game so appealing to the masses that would cause such a fanatical response? When I have approached people I knew about this game, I feel as if I am inquiring about religion, and we all know how well those conversatiosn go. They escalate quickly into "Hater vs. Fanboi" to them, which is when I turn and walk away, because, frankly, I am neither.
I have no reason to hate Guild Wars 2, and am trying to find a reason to want to purchase it. To make this thread a little less pointless, I will pose a question.
What makes You want to buy Guild Wars? Hopefully some of that will rub off on me.
It's clear you've pre-judged the game pretty harshly, which is completely tinting the lense through which you view the game as you have researched it. Also, let's be honest, most people once they've made a judgements will not admit the judgement was wrong. In your case, the level of resistance is only naturally increased because your wife wants to like the game and you do not!
It seems, like many of us, you aren't really happy with the status quo of MMO design, but you aren't really sure what you want from an MMO. Believe me, GW2 game design is very innovative. Arenanet have redesigned what wasn't working with MMOs, kept enough of the familiar that MMO fans could accept the game, while sticking to a design strategy that always looked at every feature and design decision from the perspective of how everything fits together as a whole.
The game is not a mish mash of features, rather, GW2 ends up being a game that is greater than the sum of it's individual parts. The innovation of the game's design becomes apparent in when you play and become immersed in the game, even if you can't appreciate the dozens of individual design innovations for the role they play in making the game so fun and immersive.
At this point, I'm not sure what anyone will be able to say to change your pre-judgement.
However, I can tell you that I've been around the genre for almost 14 years. I've played or tested almost every AAA MMO to be released in the last twelve years. I've become very jaded towards the genre, as game after game has failed to deliver. My expectations for new MMOs has become so lowered that if I can get 40-60 hours from an MMO I've purchased, I have had to consider that good value for the box price.
I saw the potential for this game with each new feature that was announced and with each new blog post or comment they shared that discussed their design philosophy for the game. However, I had also seen marketing hype many times before and remained weary until I got to try the game. My expectations were pretty high and though the game is not perfect, Arenanet have mostly delivered on the promise and potential that they represented for this game.
I played close to 40 hours during the first Beta Weekend Event and I was sold on the game from that point on. I've now logged almost 150 hours between all events and tests. 150 hours! Already three times as many hours as most MMOs in recent years have been able to provide me before I got bored or frustrated, (with bad design decisions) and left. I had fun for almost the entire 150 hours and could never get enough of the game. It's been a long time since I've had that experience with an MMO.
In all those hours, I still managed to experience maybe only 20% of all the content that was available to us, which in turn was less than half of the content that will ships with the game!
Even if someone can't see the forest for the trees and can't appreciate the subtle and not so subtle innovations inherent in the game's design, I hope they can appreciate the value a game that can immerse even a jaded MMO fan in a game for 150 hours and leave them not only wanting for more, but having much, much more content and world space left to offer them!
I can easily see myself getting over 1,000 hours from the game in it's at release state. I had almost completely given up on finding a game I would play for months or years, where total /played time would be in the hundreds, (or thousands) of hours, rather then the tens. Then GW2 came along and made me believe I could actually buy an MMO with the expectation of it providing a long term gaming experience.
If you consider how much many of us long to the genre have wasted on MMO purchases that now sit on our shelves collecting dust, not to mention the money wasted on subscription costs, ~$60 for a game, that has no subscription fee, really isn't much to pay for a ticket to a game that actually has the potential to be a long term game for you as well.
If you can't see the innovation the game offers while sitting on the outside, then the only way you are ever going to appreciate the game is to actually play it, with some genuine effort to do so with an open mind and open heart.
Fortunately, you have a wife more receptive to the potential this game has to offer. If you find that you will actually be happy, for her and for yourself, if it turns out she was right and you were wrong, then there is still some hope for you yet!
If you just can't make yourself buy a copy and take a chance, you can always borrow your wife's account and give the game a spin, just don't expect it to be an easy task to get her to give up the keyboard to you for a while after the game releases!
In the end, it's a game and people play a game to have fun. GW2 is an extremely fun MMO. It never feels like a chore to play it. It immerses you in a beautiful world that feels much more alive than most MMO worlds. The game is designed to enhance the fun and minimize the things about MMOs that are not fun. I can't guarantee the game will be fun for you, or that you will allow it to be fun for you, but there is massive potential here for this game to be one that you do, indeed, find fun to play.
You won't know if you'll find the game fun until you actually play it. Just be willing to allow yourself to have fun and let go of any investment you've made in your pre-judgement of the game. You could make much worse bets on finding a fun, ongoing game experience for your $60!
I will say to the OP that this game is a much improved version of some older MMO titles, with lots of new innovating ideas, sure it does use features that started from other titles, but improves upon them and makes them perfect. It's like comparing a I7 with a 486, both have the same features, but one of them is a lot more powerful/innovative than the other. It is one of the most immersive MMORPGs, if not the most immersive one, even though it isn't a sandbox
Block the trolls, don't answer them, so we can remove the garbage from these forums
Well, I appreciate all the responses, both positive and negative(somewhat). I have decided to wait until the initial release and buy a copy for my wife. I'll mess around with her account and then make an even more informed decision. I most likely will be purchasing the game in the end, but I'm fine with that.
I would like to thank those who posted the long thought out posts in regard to my indecisive mind, Thank you.
Although for further comments, if anyone could explain the gearing that I have been watching and reading about, I would appreciate it.
Gear in GW2 will be mostly cosmetic with attachments? Yes? No? Maybe so? How exactly is this working. Every place I have seen does not give a solid answer, basicly just saying it does, none of them really hit the nail on the head per se.
Comments
We were all bought by Arenanet to advertise this game and what we say holds no value since all we have to say is scripted by Arenanet and we get paid to do so.
And there are absolutly no facts whatsoever to backup this games hype. I mean comeon, unless he personally plays the game and sees this for himself, then it will remain hype and thus never be fact regardless of the coreographed videos and the trained Arenanet employees who come on this site and go "ya its true, I've seen it with my own two eyes >.>"
The only real facts regarding the game as far as people liking disliking:
1. Some folks have played it for X number of hours/days/weekends (and some beta testers longer)
2. Some people like it and think it will 'go'. THE game for them.
3. Some think it isn't very different from other games in it's basis.
That's pretty much it.
No one actually knows whether it will go on to be a b BIG title that no one will want to be without.
Nor does anything know if it will prove to be 'just another game'.
I base my own (hopeful) opinion on it being a game I can enjoy on the fact that shortly after I started my 1st BWE, I knew I wanted a completion bonus based (mostly) on exploring every corner of every map. Haven't felt that way since my 1st MMO 18 years ago. Will that do it for everyone? Not at all. But it does do it for me.
OP - Let your better half play, watch her game for a couple days and roll an alt in the off hours. She can always come back and play with you if you decide you like it a few days in. Down-level scaling, ftw.
My goal was to stimulate a positive conversation about the pro's and con's of the game. If you feel the need to "call me out" for doing so, so be it. If you mistake that for crying, oh well. That's just your internet rage speaking for you.
No, what you have there is a nice collection of logical fallacies backing you up. The last 8 years of releases are not important because this is not the same game as anything to have released in the last 8 years or even remotely similar, nor is the market itself.
Also; as you are so willing to constantly remind everyone you purchased the game that sort of gives you away.
And at this point I'm really done my discussion with you. You change the subject and then complain that people aren't following you and then use the 'but i bought gw2 as well!' card to try persuade people you are being honest when you are not. I called you out on you saying GW2 was like SWTOR when it came to the amount of information available prior to launch and you have been proven otherwise. The hype is also entirely different as most of the 'hype', if you can call it that, for GW2 has been done via word of mouth as oppose to being from the developers, not to mention the amount of video footage available of all the differeny systems that have been described by the developers but.. If you want to continue to make yourself look untrustworthy then keep posting your misinformation so even more can see.
I guess both people could be right. The trinity is the fact that you can do all 3, but its not dedicated or holy because everyone can do everything...
Thanks Graey, I appreciate the response. I also liked Rift, but after a while it did get a little stale.
The new Trinity feature of Guild Wars 2 does seem like an "On the fly" advancement of the Soul System from Rift.
yeah you explained that way better. Makes sense though. I can see how people still want to call it both though. First we would have to define trinity or holy trinity. I still think it has some trinity hence your soft example. But as for holy..definitely not.
it's not the holy trinity because there is no straight tank or healer role.. you can argue all day control and support have some tank and healer "mechanics" but they are not tank or healer roles like in holy trinity games.
I angered the clerk in a clothing shop today. She asked me what size I was and I said actual, because I am not to scale. I like vending machines 'cause snacks are better when they fall. If I buy a candy bar at a store, oftentimes, I will drop it... so that it achieves its maximum flavor potential. --Mitch Hedberg
I would agree it did. I have stopped playing for a couple months now. I log on here and there to check on things. I do like their update cycle and I will definitely purchase the expansion. I don't have a lot of time so I'll mostly do a lot of solo work.
It would but I'd say its a more evolved form or rather a horizontal form of the soul system. In that one character instead of switching out souls to do healing, dps, or tanking...can just do all 3. The ranger could just 2h sword it up while healing his pet..never really needing to switch skills. Honestly I don't switch them much lol...I'm sooo lazy
However you will quickly meet death if you dont switch out your pet when it's health gets low haha...and you will die a lot...i mean a lot lot lol. So in Rift you have to wait till out of combat, switch to dps from heals then carry on or respect to be more efficient in one or the other etc. GW2...switch to short bow to long bow, then cast poison shot, switch to a 1h sword and horn call those pesky birds to fly in and peck the opponent..which is super funny. All while your bear..name him cuddles is tearing the goblin bandit a new one.
Edited: realized my mistake. this wasn't the thread i thought it was. SORRY OP!
Yeah I know that but I'm looking more on the outside of how this is worded. In which you have the trinity tank, heals, dps, but yet your one toon is the trinity. So in respect you are all able to be a trinity but not in the traditional restrictive way. I agree and disagree lol...weird eh. Yes I would agree its not holy...definitely not that. More so as meow said soft..yes soft.. lol. So again I see why some say it is and some say it's not. Holy I would agree it is not, but soft trinity when you look at it then yes it is. But to a varying degree. Someone has to be the center of attention but since its everyone then what 20% tanky, everyone heals themselves so...15% heals and the rest dps cause let's face it we are all trying to kill what ever mob we are facing at that moment. And you know people go to that death stance or whatever with a quickness.
but that's just it there is no tank or healer period. So you can't just say you can be all 3 when two don't even exist. There are pieces of what you may call a tank although very loose since there is no aggro control or taunt type skills and pieces of what you would call a healer but not enough to say the game has healer or tank roles at all which is why you have control and support.. So it's not just saying one person can play all three of the holy trinity when two of the 3 aren't really even there.
I angered the clerk in a clothing shop today. She asked me what size I was and I said actual, because I am not to scale. I like vending machines 'cause snacks are better when they fall. If I buy a candy bar at a store, oftentimes, I will drop it... so that it achieves its maximum flavor potential. --Mitch Hedberg
maybe/hopefully you are really looking for answers as opposed to 2/3rds of the "Make me like GW2" posts we've seen.
One of the big differences between GW2 and RIFT (or most any WoW Clone) is while you can Spec and Gear to be more effective at Damage, Support, or Control - your Character is never exclusively performing that function in a group. Boons (Ally Buffs or Support) are often applied while using a Weapon Attack (Damage) as well as Conditions like Blind or Cripple (Control).
There are no Aggro Taunts to keep a Mob's attention on a character. Also most everybody can survive 1-2 attacks from a mob but will be 2-3-shotted if they try to "go toe-to-toe" without avoiding attacks through movement, dodging, and the occasional damage avoidance ability.
So where I really see the difference is everybody can and is most effective when they understand and are able to play all 3 roles pretty much at the same time.
Some have accused GW2 of having nothing more than zerg mechanics in group play and to someone who hasn't played in a group I can easily see where that perception comes from, but one of the things I love about the game is how dynamic and strategic combat can be. People stepping up and "taking turns" at protecting the group, or dropping Combo Fields to boost damage, or clearing Conditions while giving others time to recover and heal themselves back up - all while staying mobile dodging mob attacks or AoE and being able to cast on the move... I just find it so much more visceral, exciting, and simply fun than any other MMO combat I've played.
Oh I see what your saying. Granted I did give percentages of how much I thought there were of them. But yeah now that you explained it like that I can see what you're getting at. I'm thinking since you can heal and you can hold the attention not necesarrily the agrro of a mob then they still exist in a way. Since in theory if you can heal even yourself then your doing one of the trinities. But again I see what your saying. Then what would you call this...hybrid system of roles haha.
RIFT's soul system didn't solve the trinity for one reason.
No one still wanted to tank, they can switch to a tanking spec, sure, but why?
i just call in enjoyable combat:)
I angered the clerk in a clothing shop today. She asked me what size I was and I said actual, because I am not to scale. I like vending machines 'cause snacks are better when they fall. If I buy a candy bar at a store, oftentimes, I will drop it... so that it achieves its maximum flavor potential. --Mitch Hedberg
Touche' Aerowyn...touche'
You win this round Wyn, but I'll be back...whahahthahahahahahaha...cough gack..swallowed fly gack...
My gf was playing this Flyff game online. When one day she asked me if I wanna install the game and play with her. I wasn't really loving the idea of playing the game I don't have any interest in, but since she wanted me to play a game with her I installed the game and played with her for few days (or shall I say, she was boosting my ass for few days xD)...
I still didn't like the game, but I played it... Ofcourse I kept getting myself killed all the time, but well
The game can be really stupid to you, but you can still have fun in it with your wife, it's only a matter of how you look at it
"Happiness is not a destination. It is a method of life."
-------------------------------
I've pre-purchased GW2, and I did so because the videos seemed to suggest that this game could be good for at least a month before moving on to something else, and that's a lot better than any MMO has done for me since Age of Conan (lasted a whole two months, pretty good).
After reading the OP's post, I will say to the OP that this game is about everything you've concluded it is. The game is an improved version of some older MMO titles. It isn't immersive and it isn't sandbox - it's a theme park through and through.
If you can handle that and want to seek out the few improved parts of a traditional MMO for some decent entertainment, this game may be a worth a buy. If you're not ready for a majority of the game to be a stale repeat of other MMOs with a sprinkle of new, then stay away, imo.
it's the most immersive themepark MMO i have played.. people have differn't perspectives on a lot of things
I angered the clerk in a clothing shop today. She asked me what size I was and I said actual, because I am not to scale. I like vending machines 'cause snacks are better when they fall. If I buy a candy bar at a store, oftentimes, I will drop it... so that it achieves its maximum flavor potential. --Mitch Hedberg
I don't think this is necessarily true.
There have been a number of people who have changed their opinions on GW2, both in favor of the game and against. Some people had preconceived notions about the game that later changed based on new information, and others played a BWE and decided that it wasn't what they were looking for.
I'd like to believe that the forums still have folks in them that use them for discussion and information gathering. This seems to be becoming less and less frequent, especially as we approach the launch of GW2 and passions rise.
And I do understand, in part, the OP's position. He's seen GW2 and doesn't react to it the the same way his wife/others do, but that's a reflection of people looking for different experiences in their free-time gaming.
"Loading screens" are not "instances".
Your personal efforts to troll any game will not, in fact, impact the success or failure of said game.
It's clear you've pre-judged the game pretty harshly, which is completely tinting the lense through which you view the game as you have researched it. Also, let's be honest, most people once they've made a judgements will not admit the judgement was wrong. In your case, the level of resistance is only naturally increased because your wife wants to like the game and you do not!
It seems, like many of us, you aren't really happy with the status quo of MMO design, but you aren't really sure what you want from an MMO. Believe me, GW2 game design is very innovative. Arenanet have redesigned what wasn't working with MMOs, kept enough of the familiar that MMO fans could accept the game, while sticking to a design strategy that always looked at every feature and design decision from the perspective of how everything fits together as a whole.
The game is not a mish mash of features, rather, GW2 ends up being a game that is greater than the sum of it's individual parts. The innovation of the game's design becomes apparent in when you play and become immersed in the game, even if you can't appreciate the dozens of individual design innovations for the role they play in making the game so fun and immersive.
At this point, I'm not sure what anyone will be able to say to change your pre-judgement.
However, I can tell you that I've been around the genre for almost 14 years. I've played or tested almost every AAA MMO to be released in the last twelve years. I've become very jaded towards the genre, as game after game has failed to deliver. My expectations for new MMOs has become so lowered that if I can get 40-60 hours from an MMO I've purchased, I have had to consider that good value for the box price.
I saw the potential for this game with each new feature that was announced and with each new blog post or comment they shared that discussed their design philosophy for the game. However, I had also seen marketing hype many times before and remained weary until I got to try the game. My expectations were pretty high and though the game is not perfect, Arenanet have mostly delivered on the promise and potential that they represented for this game.
I played close to 40 hours during the first Beta Weekend Event and I was sold on the game from that point on. I've now logged almost 150 hours between all events and tests. 150 hours! Already three times as many hours as most MMOs in recent years have been able to provide me before I got bored or frustrated, (with bad design decisions) and left. I had fun for almost the entire 150 hours and could never get enough of the game. It's been a long time since I've had that experience with an MMO.
In all those hours, I still managed to experience maybe only 20% of all the content that was available to us, which in turn was less than half of the content that will ships with the game!
Even if someone can't see the forest for the trees and can't appreciate the subtle and not so subtle innovations inherent in the game's design, I hope they can appreciate the value a game that can immerse even a jaded MMO fan in a game for 150 hours and leave them not only wanting for more, but having much, much more content and world space left to offer them!
I can easily see myself getting over 1,000 hours from the game in it's at release state. I had almost completely given up on finding a game I would play for months or years, where total /played time would be in the hundreds, (or thousands) of hours, rather then the tens. Then GW2 came along and made me believe I could actually buy an MMO with the expectation of it providing a long term gaming experience.
If you consider how much many of us long to the genre have wasted on MMO purchases that now sit on our shelves collecting dust, not to mention the money wasted on subscription costs, ~$60 for a game, that has no subscription fee, really isn't much to pay for a ticket to a game that actually has the potential to be a long term game for you as well.
If you can't see the innovation the game offers while sitting on the outside, then the only way you are ever going to appreciate the game is to actually play it, with some genuine effort to do so with an open mind and open heart.
Fortunately, you have a wife more receptive to the potential this game has to offer. If you find that you will actually be happy, for her and for yourself, if it turns out she was right and you were wrong, then there is still some hope for you yet!
If you just can't make yourself buy a copy and take a chance, you can always borrow your wife's account and give the game a spin, just don't expect it to be an easy task to get her to give up the keyboard to you for a while after the game releases!
In the end, it's a game and people play a game to have fun. GW2 is an extremely fun MMO. It never feels like a chore to play it. It immerses you in a beautiful world that feels much more alive than most MMO worlds. The game is designed to enhance the fun and minimize the things about MMOs that are not fun. I can't guarantee the game will be fun for you, or that you will allow it to be fun for you, but there is massive potential here for this game to be one that you do, indeed, find fun to play.
You won't know if you'll find the game fun until you actually play it. Just be willing to allow yourself to have fun and let go of any investment you've made in your pre-judgement of the game. You could make much worse bets on finding a fun, ongoing game experience for your $60!
If it's fun, play it. If it isn't, don't.
Want to know more about GW2 and why there is so much buzz? Start here: Guild Wars 2 Mass Info for the Uninitiated
Block the trolls, don't answer them, so we can remove the garbage from these forums
Well, I appreciate all the responses, both positive and negative(somewhat). I have decided to wait until the initial release and buy a copy for my wife. I'll mess around with her account and then make an even more informed decision. I most likely will be purchasing the game in the end, but I'm fine with that.
I would like to thank those who posted the long thought out posts in regard to my indecisive mind, Thank you.
Although for further comments, if anyone could explain the gearing that I have been watching and reading about, I would appreciate it.
Gear in GW2 will be mostly cosmetic with attachments? Yes? No? Maybe so? How exactly is this working. Every place I have seen does not give a solid answer, basicly just saying it does, none of them really hit the nail on the head per se.