Originally posted by Drughi is a really nice game, but not gonna revolutionize anything
So let's say the game sells 6 million copies and does well over the next several years.
You think it won't dramatically change the MMO market? You think everyone will still largely be making WoW-clones?
GW1 sold more than 6 million, did it not? That was...8 years ago? We've seen a hell of a lot of WoW clones since then... There will always be WoW clones because WoW sold between 50-80 million box sales. A hell of a lot more than GW, plus the sub model generates $40 a second for Blizzard.
The hype alone from Blizzards Titan will smash GW2 sales out of the water, and I bet the insides of my pockets, that game will have a sub. Then companies will be coming out with Titan clones.
I'm not trying to be "omg GW2 suxor, it won't revolutionise anything". Just trying to be realistic. Blizzard will have the genre by the grapes for the forseeable future, and because of their rediculous profits, there will always be "WoW clones".
Originally posted by Drachasor Originally posted by EbonheartOriginally posted by DrachasorOriginally posted by Drughiis a really nice game, but not gonna revolutionize anything
So let's say the game sells 6 million copies and does well over the next several years.You think it won't dramatically change the MMO market? You think everyone will still largely be making WoW-clones?Most gaming companies like reliable investments.Therefore they will always make WoW clones until WoW no longer exists.Yeah, because those WoW clones have proven to be soooo reliable, right?
Oh wait, most of them crash and burn. The ones that don't just crash or burn.
GW2 could demonstrate there's more reliable ways to model your MMO using more tried and true methods -- the same methods most games use.
Fact is, there is one model that out performs financially than any other, The wow p2p model.
TSW - AoC - Aion - WOW - EVE - Fallen Earth - Co - Rift - || XNA C# Java Development
Oh you're right. It's really just like Final Fantasy I. I mean, you're still fighting and questing at the end of the day. What the heck does the form it takes or system it uses matter? None right? Especially if it feels different. I mean, who cares about how the game plays. That's not what they are about or anything.
So is your contention that you can't have a revolutionary innovation within a very broad genre like "themepark MMORPG"?
All I'm getting at is some of the reasons people are stating to why GW2 is revolutionary can be slapped on other MMO's as they did certain things within the themepark genre sligthly differently.
IMO GW2 is NOT being revolutionary.
Now your adding innovative which is just taking existing ideas and improving/making them better. Which to me is subjective. I think GW2 does things better, some will disagree.
I think GW2 is going to do really well. This seems quite likely to me anyhow.
I hope the net result is not just people mimicking GW2, but a realization that you don't have to strictly adhere to the WoW model to make an MMO. And hopefully more movement towards a simple B2P model like most other games which is a healthier incentive for generating good gameplay.
GW2 is not the first to not adhere to the WOW model.B2P is a wake up call to other devs teams who charge a flat monthly rate and it's also a wake up call to the F2P model that has a cash shop and in game restrictions.
Granted, but it isn't going after a niche market unlike a lot of others, and it is polished. The B2P model is a huge part of it too, I don't disagree.
Oh you're right. It's really just like Final Fantasy I. I mean, you're still fighting and questing at the end of the day. What the heck does the form it takes or system it uses matter? None right? Especially if it feels different. I mean, who cares about how the game plays. That's not what they are about or anything.
So is your contention that you can't have a revolutionary innovation within a very broad genre like "themepark MMORPG"?
All I'm getting at is some of the reasons people are stating to why GW2 is revolutionary can be slapped on other MMO's as they did certain things within the themepark genre sligthly differently.
IMO GW2 is NOT being revolutionary.
Now your adding innovative which is just taking existing ideas and improving/making them better. Which to me is subjective. I think GW2 does things better, some will disagree.
Well, to play the dictionary game so we're on the same page:
rev·o·lu·tion·ar·y
adjective
1. of, pertaining to, characterized by, or of the nature of a revolution, or a sudden, complete, or marked change: a revolutionary junta.
2. radically new or innovative; outside or beyond established procedure, principles, etc.: a revolutionary discovery.
3. ( initial capital letter ) of or pertaining to the american revolution or to the period contemporaneous with it in U.S. history: Revolutionary heroes; Revolutionary weapons.
So, if it gets MMO makers to create B2P games, then it will be revolutionary. Same if it gets them to branch out from WoW clones. Both seem possible to me.
Given the established procedure in MMOs these days, especially themeparks, is to make WoW Clones, GW2 is revolutionary here. It's not at all a WoW-clone, though it is an MMORPG themepark. Certainly it is quite innovative in how it does that, taking bits and pieces from a number of other games and expanding and improving upon them. DEs may trace themselves back to PQs but they are radically different from them, for example.
Err, ok, it doesn't have anything to do with the American Revolution. So you got me on that potential aspect. Nor does it revolve (I dropped that definition from the list.
There, using the dictionary makes things a bit less subjective.
I think level scaling will have the biggest effect on the way future developers think about designing themepark MMORPG content. This system ties into their idea of a gear plateau as well since they are able to balance all new content around a specific gear power level.
Since many themeparks seem to be struggling to develop enough content fast enough for the players, this could be one solution that helps developers keep people entertained in the long term. All new content added to the game is relevant forever. All old content in the game is relevant forever. Every piece of anything they add to the game is playable by potentially anyone that has the levels and the gear to complete it.
It seems like it's a small thing at first, but I think in the long term, this change to the way themeparks are made might be the thing about GW2 that developers latch onto the most in the future. You can call this change whatever you want (revolutionary, evolutionary, etc.), but I think it's already got some developers turning their heads.
They are not? Questing without requirements, questing without kill-stealing, questing at any point of a chain, players affecting the world in a major way, player actions affecting those around them, different outcomes in quests. For you it might not be a huge difference. For those who tried it and experienced it, it is a huge leap forward to the "usual" questing. You may say whatever you want but as someone else said: "in other MMOs players do quests, in GW2 quests do players" and I really liked that phrase, there is no "skip" or "accept" button, all npc conversations happen real-time with chat bubbles, allowing everyone to participate at any point, events happen with or without the presence of players, that's why it is dynamic and feels alive. This is what makes the game unique, immersive and revolutionary as no other game has ever done that before.
GW2 is being innovative, not revolutionary.
I'm glad its a small minority that are claiming its revolutionary. I would be bitterly disappointed if I bought it expecting it to be something completey different.
Originally posted by Syno23 Think about the PvP and how revolutionary that is. Thing about the PvE which are Dynamic Events and hearts. No more having to compete for quests and areas and tokens and items. Work together. Create a world that works with more and more players. WvW included.
no it wont.. simple as that...
GW2 is just a different twist on the same old things, there is nothing really revolutionary about the game.. not even the fact that its buy to play with no sub.. as it has a cash shop so at the end of the day its just like a f2p game but you have to pay for it as well..
Now im not saying it a bad game, infact i picked it up to play with my guild but its nothing really new and nothing super special..
Originally posted by Drughiis a really nice game, but not gonna revolutionize anything
So let's say the game sells 6 million copies and does well over the next several years.You think it won't dramatically change the MMO market? You think everyone will still largely be making WoW-clones?
Most gaming companies like reliable investments.Therefore they will always make WoW clones until WoW no longer exists.
Yeah, because those WoW clones have proven to be soooo reliable, right?
Oh wait, most of them crash and burn. The ones that don't just crash or burn.
GW2 could demonstrate there's more reliable ways to model your MMO using more tried and true methods -- the same methods most games use.
Fact is, there is one model that out performs financially than any other, The wow p2p model.
There's one game, you mean. That's not really much of a model if no one can replicate it, not in any useful sense. If there's another reliable way to make money with MMOs then that will likely be taken up by people who will simply be happy to have a more reliable method of making money than the huge gamble of a WoW clone (a gamble that many have tried and all have lost at).
I think GW2 is going to do really well. This seems quite likely to me anyhow.
I hope the net result is not just people mimicking GW2, but a realization that you don't have to strictly adhere to the WoW model to make an MMO. And hopefully more movement towards a simple B2P model like most other games which is a healthier incentive for generating good gameplay.
GW2 is not the first to not adhere to the WOW model.B2P is a wake up call to other devs teams who charge a flat monthly rate and it's also a wake up call to the F2P model that has a cash shop and in game restrictions.
Granted, but it isn't going after a niche market unlike a lot of others, and it is polished. The B2P model is a huge part of it too, I don't disagree.
Not every mmo that does not follow adhere to the WOW model is or was going for a niche market.
Their was a game called TCOS which was far away from the WOW model but the devs mess it up,it was a very different MMO and good IMO.Given the right backing it would of been a hit,so you see GW2 is not the first.
Oh and i like GW2 but some of you really are getting carried away,i bet many of you were saying the same thing about swtor, in fact i know many of you were.
Originally posted by Drughi is a really nice game, but not gonna revolutionize anything
So let's say the game sells 6 million copies and does well over the next several years.
You think it won't dramatically change the MMO market? You think everyone will still largely be making WoW-clones?
GW1 sold more than 6 million, did it not? That was...8 years ago? We've seen a hell of a lot of WoW clones since then... There will always be WoW clones because WoW sold between 50-80 million box sales. A hell of a lot more than GW, plus the sub model generates $40 a second for Blizzard.
The hype alone from Blizzards Titan will smash GW2 sales out of the water, and I bet the insides of my pockets, that game will have a sub. Then companies will be coming out with Titan clones.
I'm not trying to be "omg GW2 suxor, it won't revolutionise anything". Just trying to be realistic. Blizzard will have the genre by the grapes for the forseeable future, and because of their rediculous profits, there will always be "WoW clones".
GW1 didn't pretend to be an MMO. It doesn't call itself an MMO. And frankly, is rather niche and not that great in a number of ways. GW2 is a far more polished and well-designed experience and is a completely different game from GW1.
I am not saying WoW clones will disappear. I'm saying that more variety in MMOs will appear. At least, that seems like something that is quite possible to me if GW2 does well. By definition that qualifies as revolutionary.
Originally posted by Drughiis a really nice game, but not gonna revolutionize anything
So let's say the game sells 6 million copies and does well over the next several years.You think it won't dramatically change the MMO market? You think everyone will still largely be making WoW-clones?
Most gaming companies like reliable investments.Therefore they will always make WoW clones until WoW no longer exists.
Yeah, because those WoW clones have proven to be soooo reliable, right?
Oh wait, most of them crash and burn. The ones that don't just crash or burn.
GW2 could demonstrate there's more reliable ways to model your MMO using more tried and true methods -- the same methods most games use.
Fact is, there is one model that out performs financially than any other, The wow p2p model.
There's one game, you mean. That's not really much of a model if no one can replicate it, not in any useful sense. If there's another reliable way to make money with MMOs then that will likely be taken up by people who will simply be happy to have a more reliable method of making money than the huge gamble of a WoW clone (a gamble that many have tried and all have lost at).
Yeah, it's one game that was successful, not one model. A lot of games that were modeled after WoW have done very poorly. So poorly that they tend to change their model less than a year after release.
I think GW2 is going to do really well. This seems quite likely to me anyhow.
I hope the net result is not just people mimicking GW2, but a realization that you don't have to strictly adhere to the WoW model to make an MMO. And hopefully more movement towards a simple B2P model like most other games which is a healthier incentive for generating good gameplay.
GW2 is not the first to not adhere to the WOW model.B2P is a wake up call to other devs teams who charge a flat monthly rate and it's also a wake up call to the F2P model that has a cash shop and in game restrictions.
Granted, but it isn't going after a niche market unlike a lot of others, and it is polished. The B2P model is a huge part of it too, I don't disagree.
Not every mmo that does not follow adhere to the WOW model is or was going for a niche market.
Their was a game called TCOS which was far away from the WOW model but the devs mess it up,it was a very different MMO and good IMO.Given the right backing it would of been a hit,so you see GW2 is not the first.
Oh and i like GW2 but some of you really are getting carried away,i bet many of you were saying the same thing about swtor, in fact i know many of you were.
Ergo, TCOS wasn't polished.
Do I have to clarify that GW2 will be the first MMO since WoW that's not a WoW clone, not going after a niche market, AND IS NOT A STINKING PILE OF CRAP?
I thought we could just assume the last one.
And I certainly wasn't saying the same thing about TOR. It was innovative in only one respect, which only affected things between most of the gameplay. I in fact said this much on the TOR forums here.
Originally posted by Drughiis a really nice game, but not gonna revolutionize anything
So let's say the game sells 6 million copies and does well over the next several years.You think it won't dramatically change the MMO market? You think everyone will still largely be making WoW-clones?
Most gaming companies like reliable investments.Therefore they will always make WoW clones until WoW no longer exists.
Yeah, because those WoW clones have proven to be soooo reliable, right?
Oh wait, most of them crash and burn. The ones that don't just crash or burn.
GW2 could demonstrate there's more reliable ways to model your MMO using more tried and true methods -- the same methods most games use.
Fact is, there is one model that out performs financially than any other, The wow p2p model.
There's one game, you mean. That's not really much of a model if no one can replicate it, not in any useful sense. If there's another reliable way to make money with MMOs then that will likely be taken up by people who will simply be happy to have a more reliable method of making money than the huge gamble of a WoW clone (a gamble that many have tried and all have lost at).
It does not matter,WOW is still the leading model,it's as simple as that.Will BTP change that,it might but right now it hasn't.You can make all the excuses you want but the fact remains is WOW which is P2P is the leading model,you can't argue against it.
Name me one MMO that generates more cash that WOW?
Originally posted by aaradun how is this game revolutionary everything in it is stolen from other games, pvp from DAOC, events from rift and warhammer online.
And it improved upon them immensely. It's also not going with a Holy Trinity and gear grind setup, unlike those other games.
WoW was revolutionary and it did little more than copy from others and improve upon them. Sometimes that's all it takes. Though GW2 is more markedly different from other themepark MMOs than I think WoW was when it came out.
Originally posted by Syno23 Think about the PvP and how revolutionary that is.
Uh... you mean a slightly worse version of PvP we've had since 2001? Revolutionary?
No.
This^^.
There is nothing new about GW2 and certainly nothing revolutionary.
DAoC was doing 3 faction pvp and keep sieges 10 years ago, Warhammer's public quest system came long before Rifts "dynamic" events.
The actual pvp play in GW2 is nowhere near the best in the genre, it's pretty mediocre compared to some.
GW2 does exactly what WoW did, takes existing systems, polishes them a bit and reinvents them as their own concept. Thing is, while nothing in GW2 is new, what they have done is learn from other mmo's and improved on some of the recipes.
The only thing i find a bit new is a B2P model for a AAA title, most recent releases did so as subs and then went F2P. But then the box price on GW2 is higher then most.
Expresso gave me a Hearthstone beta key.....I'm so happy
I think GW2 is going to do really well. This seems quite likely to me anyhow.
I hope the net result is not just people mimicking GW2, but a realization that you don't have to strictly adhere to the WoW model to make an MMO. And hopefully more movement towards a simple B2P model like most other games which is a healthier incentive for generating good gameplay.
GW2 is not the first to not adhere to the WOW model.B2P is a wake up call to other devs teams who charge a flat monthly rate and it's also a wake up call to the F2P model that has a cash shop and in game restrictions.
Granted, but it isn't going after a niche market unlike a lot of others, and it is polished. The B2P model is a huge part of it too, I don't disagree.
Not every mmo that does not follow adhere to the WOW model is or was going for a niche market.
Their was a game called TCOS which was far away from the WOW model but the devs mess it up,it was a very different MMO and good IMO.Given the right backing it would of been a hit,so you see GW2 is not the first.
Oh and i like GW2 but some of you really are getting carried away,i bet many of you were saying the same thing about swtor, in fact i know many of you were.
Ergo, TCOS wasn't polished.
Do I have to clarify that GW2 will be the first MMO since WoW that's not a WoW clone, not going after a niche market, AND IS NOT A STINKING PILE OF CRAP?
I thought we could just assume the last one.
Ah, but now you are changing what you actually said.
As for TCOS,we are not talking about if it was polished,that's a whole other subject.
Originally posted by aaradun how is this game revolutionary everything in it is stolen from other games, pvp from DAOC, events from rift and warhammer online.
And it improved upon them immensely. It's also not going with a Holy Trinity and gear grind setup, unlike those other games.
WoW was revolutionary and it did little more than copy from others and improve upon them. Sometimes that's all it takes. Though GW2 is more markedly different from other themepark MMOs than I think WoW was when it came out.
WoW was not revolutionary either, WoW was simply the first mmorpg to go the mass marketting route, nothing in the game was new, it had all been done before.
Expresso gave me a Hearthstone beta key.....I'm so happy
Originally posted by Drughiis a really nice game, but not gonna revolutionize anything
So let's say the game sells 6 million copies and does well over the next several years.You think it won't dramatically change the MMO market? You think everyone will still largely be making WoW-clones?
Most gaming companies like reliable investments.Therefore they will always make WoW clones until WoW no longer exists.
Yeah, because those WoW clones have proven to be soooo reliable, right?
Oh wait, most of them crash and burn. The ones that don't just crash or burn.
GW2 could demonstrate there's more reliable ways to model your MMO using more tried and true methods -- the same methods most games use.
Fact is, there is one model that out performs financially than any other, The wow p2p model.
There's one game, you mean. That's not really much of a model if no one can replicate it, not in any useful sense. If there's another reliable way to make money with MMOs then that will likely be taken up by people who will simply be happy to have a more reliable method of making money than the huge gamble of a WoW clone (a gamble that many have tried and all have lost at).
It does not matter,WOW is still the leading model,it's as simple as that.Will BTP change that,it might but right now it hasn't.You can make all the excuses you want but the fact remains is WOW which is P2P is the leading model,you can't argue against it.
Name me one MMO that generates more cash that WOW?
Oh wow. You're right. GW2 won't be revolutionary because it hasn't change how other MMOs are made and sold before it's even come out. Eh...really? That's you're argument? Pretty lame.
And F2P and games moving to F2P mixed up the model a bit from WoW. So it is proof that things DO impact how companies handle such models. Indeed, some MMOs have been designed to be F2P since WoW came out. GW2 shows another way to go at things and another way to design MMOs (no trinity, no massive progression gear grinds, etc). It is sensible to conclude it would similarly have an impact on the market if it does well.
But I guess if you ignore how the market has already adjusted to non-WoW games (albeit only small changes given the differences of those games from WoW have only been in one or two areas), then yeah, nothing will change and no one will ever make a game that's not like WoW.
I guess we'll also ignore the fact that very successful games are often looked at and have elements copied in any genre. So likewise if GW2 does well, it will have people looking at it and copying it to one degree or another. Yes, also ignoring that you are completely correct.
The fact that 8 years have passed since WoW came out is only going to make investors MORE nervous about copying it given the horrific failures from all the major players for years and years and years. Investors don't like risk, and frankly, getting a successful P2P MMO is a pretty massive risk. A success of a less risky strategy will be noticed.
I think GW2 is going to do really well. This seems quite likely to me anyhow.
I hope the net result is not just people mimicking GW2, but a realization that you don't have to strictly adhere to the WoW model to make an MMO. And hopefully more movement towards a simple B2P model like most other games which is a healthier incentive for generating good gameplay.
GW2 is not the first to not adhere to the WOW model.B2P is a wake up call to other devs teams who charge a flat monthly rate and it's also a wake up call to the F2P model that has a cash shop and in game restrictions.
Granted, but it isn't going after a niche market unlike a lot of others, and it is polished. The B2P model is a huge part of it too, I don't disagree.
Not every mmo that does not follow adhere to the WOW model is or was going for a niche market.
Their was a game called TCOS which was far away from the WOW model but the devs mess it up,it was a very different MMO and good IMO.Given the right backing it would of been a hit,so you see GW2 is not the first.
Oh and i like GW2 but some of you really are getting carried away,i bet many of you were saying the same thing about swtor, in fact i know many of you were.
Ergo, TCOS wasn't polished.
Do I have to clarify that GW2 will be the first MMO since WoW that's not a WoW clone, not going after a niche market, AND IS NOT A STINKING PILE OF CRAP?
I thought we could just assume the last one.
Ah, but now you are changing what you actually said.
As for TCOS,we are not talking about if it was polished,that's a whole other subject.
I'm not. Look at the first post.
Good gameplay. B2P. Not adhering to the WoW model. Same stuff.
And you brought TCOS up as some sort of bizarre counterpoint. I am not sure how pointing at horrific games is some great counterpoint in your mind, but you did it, not me.
Originally posted by aaradun how is this game revolutionary everything in it is stolen from other games, pvp from DAOC, events from rift and warhammer online.
And it improved upon them immensely. It's also not going with a Holy Trinity and gear grind setup, unlike those other games.
WoW was revolutionary and it did little more than copy from others and improve upon them. Sometimes that's all it takes. Though GW2 is more markedly different from other themepark MMOs than I think WoW was when it came out.
WoW was not revolutionary either, WoW was simply the first mmorpg to go the mass marketting route, nothing in the game was new, it had all been done before.
By definition it was revolutionary, because it changed the face of the industry. If you disgree, take it up with the dictionary.
Alternative post:
You keep on using that word, but I do not think it means what you think it means.
Originally posted by Syno23 Think about the PvP and how revolutionary that is.
Uh... you mean a slightly worse version of PvP we've had since 2001? Revolutionary?
No.
This^^.
There is nothing new about GW2 and certainly nothing revolutionary.
DAoC was doing 3 faction pvp and keep sieges 10 years ago, Warhammer's public quest system came long before Rifts "dynamic" events.
The actual pvp play in GW2 is nowhere near the best in the genre, it's pretty mediocre compared to some.
GW2 does exactly what WoW did, takes existing systems, polishes them a bit and reinvents them as their own concept. Thing is, while nothing in GW2 is new, what they have done is learn from other mmo's and improved on some of the recipes.
The only thing i find a bit new is a B2P model for a AAA title, most recent releases did so as subs and then went F2P. But then the box price on GW2 is higher then most.
And WoW was revolutionary, so ergo GW2 has a chance at being revolutionary.
Comments
GW1 sold more than 6 million, did it not? That was...8 years ago? We've seen a hell of a lot of WoW clones since then... There will always be WoW clones because WoW sold between 50-80 million box sales. A hell of a lot more than GW, plus the sub model generates $40 a second for Blizzard.
The hype alone from Blizzards Titan will smash GW2 sales out of the water, and I bet the insides of my pockets, that game will have a sub. Then companies will be coming out with Titan clones.
I'm not trying to be "omg GW2 suxor, it won't revolutionise anything". Just trying to be realistic. Blizzard will have the genre by the grapes for the forseeable future, and because of their rediculous profits, there will always be "WoW clones".
Most gaming companies like reliable investments. Therefore they will always make WoW clones until WoW no longer exists.
Yeah, because those WoW clones have proven to be soooo reliable, right?
Oh wait, most of them crash and burn. The ones that don't just crash or burn.
GW2 could demonstrate there's more reliable ways to model your MMO using more tried and true methods -- the same methods most games use.
Fact is, there is one model that out performs financially than any other, The wow p2p model.
TSW - AoC - Aion - WOW - EVE - Fallen Earth - Co - Rift - || XNA C# Java Development
All I'm getting at is some of the reasons people are stating to why GW2 is revolutionary can be slapped on other MMO's as they did certain things within the themepark genre sligthly differently.
IMO GW2 is NOT being revolutionary.
Now your adding innovative which is just taking existing ideas and improving/making them better. Which to me is subjective. I think GW2 does things better, some will disagree.
Granted, but it isn't going after a niche market unlike a lot of others, and it is polished. The B2P model is a huge part of it too, I don't disagree.
Well, to play the dictionary game so we're on the same page:
rev·o·lu·tion·ar·y
adjective2. radically new or innovative; outside or beyond established procedure, principles, etc.: a revolutionary discovery.
3. ( initial capital letter ) of or pertaining to the american revolution or to the period contemporaneous with it in U.S. history: Revolutionary heroes; Revolutionary weapons.
I think level scaling will have the biggest effect on the way future developers think about designing themepark MMORPG content. This system ties into their idea of a gear plateau as well since they are able to balance all new content around a specific gear power level.
Since many themeparks seem to be struggling to develop enough content fast enough for the players, this could be one solution that helps developers keep people entertained in the long term. All new content added to the game is relevant forever. All old content in the game is relevant forever. Every piece of anything they add to the game is playable by potentially anyone that has the levels and the gear to complete it.
It seems like it's a small thing at first, but I think in the long term, this change to the way themeparks are made might be the thing about GW2 that developers latch onto the most in the future. You can call this change whatever you want (revolutionary, evolutionary, etc.), but I think it's already got some developers turning their heads.
GW2 is being innovative, not revolutionary.
I'm glad its a small minority that are claiming its revolutionary. I would be bitterly disappointed if I bought it expecting it to be something completey different.
no it wont.. simple as that...
GW2 is just a different twist on the same old things, there is nothing really revolutionary about the game.. not even the fact that its buy to play with no sub.. as it has a cash shop so at the end of the day its just like a f2p game but you have to pay for it as well..
Now im not saying it a bad game, infact i picked it up to play with my guild but its nothing really new and nothing super special..
There's one game, you mean. That's not really much of a model if no one can replicate it, not in any useful sense. If there's another reliable way to make money with MMOs then that will likely be taken up by people who will simply be happy to have a more reliable method of making money than the huge gamble of a WoW clone (a gamble that many have tried and all have lost at).
Not every mmo that does not follow adhere to the WOW model is or was going for a niche market.
Their was a game called TCOS which was far away from the WOW model but the devs mess it up,it was a very different MMO and good IMO.Given the right backing it would of been a hit,so you see GW2 is not the first.
Oh and i like GW2 but some of you really are getting carried away,i bet many of you were saying the same thing about swtor, in fact i know many of you were.
GW1 didn't pretend to be an MMO. It doesn't call itself an MMO. And frankly, is rather niche and not that great in a number of ways. GW2 is a far more polished and well-designed experience and is a completely different game from GW1.
I am not saying WoW clones will disappear. I'm saying that more variety in MMOs will appear. At least, that seems like something that is quite possible to me if GW2 does well. By definition that qualifies as revolutionary.
Yeah, it's one game that was successful, not one model. A lot of games that were modeled after WoW have done very poorly. So poorly that they tend to change their model less than a year after release.
Ergo, TCOS wasn't polished.
Do I have to clarify that GW2 will be the first MMO since WoW that's not a WoW clone, not going after a niche market, AND IS NOT A STINKING PILE OF CRAP?
I thought we could just assume the last one.
And I certainly wasn't saying the same thing about TOR. It was innovative in only one respect, which only affected things between most of the gameplay. I in fact said this much on the TOR forums here.
It does not matter,WOW is still the leading model,it's as simple as that.Will BTP change that,it might but right now it hasn't.You can make all the excuses you want but the fact remains is WOW which is P2P is the leading model,you can't argue against it.
Name me one MMO that generates more cash that WOW?
And it improved upon them immensely. It's also not going with a Holy Trinity and gear grind setup, unlike those other games.
WoW was revolutionary and it did little more than copy from others and improve upon them. Sometimes that's all it takes. Though GW2 is more markedly different from other themepark MMOs than I think WoW was when it came out.
This^^.
There is nothing new about GW2 and certainly nothing revolutionary.
DAoC was doing 3 faction pvp and keep sieges 10 years ago, Warhammer's public quest system came long before Rifts "dynamic" events.
The actual pvp play in GW2 is nowhere near the best in the genre, it's pretty mediocre compared to some.
GW2 does exactly what WoW did, takes existing systems, polishes them a bit and reinvents them as their own concept. Thing is, while nothing in GW2 is new, what they have done is learn from other mmo's and improved on some of the recipes.
The only thing i find a bit new is a B2P model for a AAA title, most recent releases did so as subs and then went F2P. But then the box price on GW2 is higher then most.
Expresso gave me a Hearthstone beta key.....I'm so happy
Ah, but now you are changing what you actually said.
As for TCOS,we are not talking about if it was polished,that's a whole other subject.
WoW was not revolutionary either, WoW was simply the first mmorpg to go the mass marketting route, nothing in the game was new, it had all been done before.
Expresso gave me a Hearthstone beta key.....I'm so happy
Oh wow. You're right. GW2 won't be revolutionary because it hasn't change how other MMOs are made and sold before it's even come out. Eh...really? That's you're argument? Pretty lame.
And F2P and games moving to F2P mixed up the model a bit from WoW. So it is proof that things DO impact how companies handle such models. Indeed, some MMOs have been designed to be F2P since WoW came out. GW2 shows another way to go at things and another way to design MMOs (no trinity, no massive progression gear grinds, etc). It is sensible to conclude it would similarly have an impact on the market if it does well.
But I guess if you ignore how the market has already adjusted to non-WoW games (albeit only small changes given the differences of those games from WoW have only been in one or two areas), then yeah, nothing will change and no one will ever make a game that's not like WoW.
I guess we'll also ignore the fact that very successful games are often looked at and have elements copied in any genre. So likewise if GW2 does well, it will have people looking at it and copying it to one degree or another. Yes, also ignoring that you are completely correct.
The fact that 8 years have passed since WoW came out is only going to make investors MORE nervous about copying it given the horrific failures from all the major players for years and years and years. Investors don't like risk, and frankly, getting a successful P2P MMO is a pretty massive risk. A success of a less risky strategy will be noticed.
I'm not. Look at the first post.
Good gameplay. B2P. Not adhering to the WoW model. Same stuff.
And you brought TCOS up as some sort of bizarre counterpoint. I am not sure how pointing at horrific games is some great counterpoint in your mind, but you did it, not me.
By definition it was revolutionary, because it changed the face of the industry. If you disgree, take it up with the dictionary.
Alternative post:
You keep on using that word, but I do not think it means what you think it means.
***** Before hitting that reply button, please READ the WHOLE thread you're about to post in *****
And WoW was revolutionary, so ergo GW2 has a chance at being revolutionary.