Seriously, I so HAVE it had with those people always yelling "MORE DIFFICULT" please. Why are the devs always listen to them? I am really pissed. First The Secret World, which I quit because I died 2000 times. And now with GW2 it is the same again. The difficulty was just right in the late beta, but a few people whined with Esports mentality, some 16 year old action zergers asked for more hardcore, and now beyond level 16 both my Mesmer and my Thief are unplayable. I HATE those people. Why must they always cater THEM? While the world is fully crowded you get along, but play on irregular times, and those classes are a DAMN CHORE. And worse, the story instances are nightmares! I even took a friend along, and we died several times, even had to just ignore some instances, because even with two we simply could not do it, and to hell with levelling, because the DAMN GAME levels you down again, no matter.
I am so fed up with developers always listen to this hardcore crowd who ruin every game because they need games to be a dick size contest to PROVE themselves!
Grrrr
Devs never listen to the hardcore players. This is the reason all MMOs are exactly the same. If Devs didn't make childishly easy carebear games (see every themepark, including GW2, currently available) you would see a million clones of Eve Online. I always wondered what kind of idiot thought these games were hard.
Note to OP: They never listen to us... in fact, they are ONLY listening to you. GW2 is easy. Stop looking for quest lines and just start walking around and actually playing the game.
I am not a huge GW2 fan. I feel the PvP is a zergfest and the classes are extremely limited and unflexible. But, the PvE parts of the game are simply the best thing out right now.
When a company releases Star Wars Galaxies 2, I will poop my pants with joy!
I am sorry the OP has had such a hard time in MMOs.
I think your frustration stems from the fact MMO DEVs are trying to earn as much money as possible from a very varied audience, so they constantly stear the directoin of the game from Hard to Easy, Casual to Hard, trying to placate as many people as possible.
Look at the WOW Dev cylce, they have it down to an art...
Step 1. Inital content release with Heroic Mode, things are very tough since they added another tier of gear.
Step 2. Post launch content adjustment and tuning to make things a little easier so more players can WIN.
Step 3. Big Nerf to content to make is acceptable to the masses and easy to WIN with non communicating PUGs.
Step 4. Lastly hand out Welfare gear for tokens to allow the everyone to out gear the Nerfed content and cake walk through it practically solo.
Rinse , Repeat....
And your ... " I died 2000 times" comment just feeds into my dream of a hardcore MMO like old skool EQ1 wihith XP loss, where even 100 deaths you would have deleveled you to 1st level. All games don't need to be designed to be "Winnable" by all people to be good.
Being an old MMO player, I don't view myself as being PRO but I find it hard to believe that people would have trouble with the greater majority of main stream MMO content if they even half pay attention.
GW2 is easy mode. Took us a little more then 50 hours to cap out our first 80. A bit less for the second because my son doesnt work (he is 12!).
I wish games would get "Vangaurd" hard to be honest. It sucks that consol-itis now infiltraits our MMO's. We should lose lvls on death. Lose gear on pvp death. Etc.
What happened to WoW,dumbed down to the bottom,this post doesnt make any sense.
Dumbed down is good. Dumbed down is GREAT, because it makes me feel the HERO and not the useless twat I am for free in RL 24/7 already thank you very much.
Clearly you aren't a hero if you need a game in easy mode to become a hero.
There are people who feel heroic and do amazing things in games that actually have any difficulty. This stems from the same thought process that led to not keeping score in kids sports so that no one felt bad. It creates generations of people who have no drive to overcome adversity and make something of themselves.
I say take every game out there and make it minimum 2-3x as hard as it is now and we might be getting close to the golden age of gaming.
What happened to WoW,dumbed down to the bottom,this post doesnt make any sense.
Dumbed down is good. Dumbed down is GREAT, because it makes me feel the HERO and not the useless twat I am for free in RL 24/7 already thank you very much.
Clearly you aren't a hero if you need a game in easy mode to become a hero.
There are people who feel heroic and do amazing things in games that actually have any difficulty. This stems from the same thought process that led to not keeping score in kids sports so that no one felt bad. It creates generations of people who have no drive to overcome adversity and make something of themselves.
I say take every game out there and make it minimum 2-3x as hard as it is now and we might be getting close to the golden age of gaming.
No .. just no.
And no one is a real hero. We are talking about GAMES here. Make belief. People should have fun with them ... and not feel like the game is impossible.
What happened to WoW,dumbed down to the bottom,this post doesnt make any sense.
Dumbed down is good. Dumbed down is GREAT, because it makes me feel the HERO and not the useless twat I am for free in RL 24/7 already thank you very much.
Clearly you aren't a hero if you need a game in easy mode to become a hero.
There are people who feel heroic and do amazing things in games that actually have any difficulty. This stems from the same thought process that led to not keeping score in kids sports so that no one felt bad. It creates generations of people who have no drive to overcome adversity and make something of themselves.
I say take every game out there and make it minimum 2-3x as hard as it is now and we might be getting close to the golden age of gaming.
No .. just no.
And no one is a real hero. We are talking about GAMES here. Make belief. People should have fun with them ... and not feel like the game is impossible.
There is a reason the majority of people quit new MMOs after 2-6 weeks. A reason on why a game has 2 million in sales and 3 months later has 200k players only. That reason is the games are too easy. When you can max level, max gear, etc. in a couple of weeks, you get BORED.
Watch the forums and see the same people get hyped over each new release, get bored quickly and latch on to the hype of the next big release hoping it holds their attention.
Easy SEEMS fun when you are constantly getting rewards, getting stronger, destroying everything. However, in actuality it is boring you which is why you turn it off after a short time and don't go back.
I won't argue this point with you as they have done psychological studies to prove it already. What people THINK they want in games typically isn't what they actually want. They will in fact typically complain about the very things that make the game more exciting and fun and have no idea.
There is a reason the majority of people quit new MMOs after 2-6 weeks. A reason on why a game has 2 million in sales and 3 months later has 200k players only. That reason is the games are too easy. When you can max level, max gear, etc. in a couple of weeks, you get BORED.
Watch the forums and see the same people get hyped over each new release, get bored quickly and latch on to the hype of the next big release hoping it holds their attention.
Easy SEEMS fun when you are constantly getting rewards, getting stronger, destroying everything. However, in actuality it is boring you which is why you turn it off after a short time and don't go back.
I won't argue this point with you as they have done psychological studies to prove it already. What people THINK they want in games typically isn't what they actually want. They will in fact typically complain about the very things that make the game more exciting and fun and have no idea.
When you reach max level & max gear, you move on and play another game.
No one says a game needs to last forever. A few weeks is already longer than SP games. Making it too hard is obviously not the solution.
Just look at Sunwell raid back in BC WOW. Only 2% have played .. there is obviously something wrong when 98% of the players ignore the content.
There is a reason the majority of people quit new MMOs after 2-6 weeks. A reason on why a game has 2 million in sales and 3 months later has 200k players only. That reason is the games are too easy. When you can max level, max gear, etc. in a couple of weeks, you get BORED.
Watch the forums and see the same people get hyped over each new release, get bored quickly and latch on to the hype of the next big release hoping it holds their attention.
Easy SEEMS fun when you are constantly getting rewards, getting stronger, destroying everything. However, in actuality it is boring you which is why you turn it off after a short time and don't go back.
I won't argue this point with you as they have done psychological studies to prove it already. What people THINK they want in games typically isn't what they actually want. They will in fact typically complain about the very things that make the game more exciting and fun and have no idea.
When you reach max level & max gear, you move on and play another game.
No one says a game needs to last forever. A few weeks is already longer than SP games. Making it too hard is obviously not the solution.
Just look at Sunwell raid back in BC WOW. Only 2% have played .. there is obviously something wrong when 98% of the players ignore the content.
A fool and his money will soon be parted.
If you by a $60 MMO so that you can get 2 weeks of play out of it and move on, well you're proving the proverb right. I will not buy a single player game that does not have over a month of serious game time enjoyment (nor will I buy one for $60 if I expect only a month of enjoyment). I also will not buy an MMO that I expect less than 3 months enjoyment with and 3 months is already a sad number for a perpetual game genre.
There is a reason so many of the "hard" initial MMOs continue to run after 13 years.
Enjoy your easy mode, some people need it I guess. Although this next statement will likely be seen as a personal attack, it isn't. It is a general statement: I can't see how someone who needs a game "easy" to play it could achieve much in the real world as everything would be far too "hard" to get anything done. Guess that explains the current state of the world.
I miss the days when a game took a year or even more to get to max level. MMOs are all about the journey, that is why people never like endgame...in any game.
I have lurked on this site for years , mainly as to look at the state of our genre. This post is a good indication as to the state of our world. I may sound like a old man, which I am in gamer standards, but for the love of god SUCK IT UP PPL! I remember the days of dying dozens of time , just to get to one side of the zone just to sit for days literally for a mob to spawn. We don't need to up or down the difficulty just get back to basics.
Seriously, I so HAVE it had with those people always yelling "MORE DIFFICULT" please. Why are the devs always listen to them? I am really pissed. First The Secret World, which I quit because I died 2000 times. And now with GW2 it is the same again. The difficulty was just right in the late beta, but a few people whined with Esports mentality, some 16 year old action zergers asked for more hardcore, and now beyond level 16 both my Mesmer and my Thief are unplayable. I HATE those people. Why must they always cater THEM? While the world is fully crowded you get along, but play on irregular times, and those classes are a DAMN CHORE. And worse, the story instances are nightmares! I even took a friend along, and we died several times, even had to just ignore some instances, because even with two we simply could not do it, and to hell with levelling, because the DAMN GAME levels you down again, no matter.
I am so fed up with developers always listen to this hardcore crowd who ruin every game because they need games to be a dick size contest to PROVE themselves!
If you by a $60 MMO so that you can get 2 weeks of play out of it and move on, well you're proving the proverb right. I will not buy a single player game that does not have over a month of serious game time enjoyment (nor will I buy one for $60 if I expect only a month of enjoyment). I also will not buy an MMO that I expect less than 3 months enjoyment with and 3 months is already a sad number for a perpetual game genre.
Originally posted by Gravarg I miss the days when a game took a year or even more to get to max level. MMOs are all about the journey, that is why people never like endgame...in any game.
Taking a long time != challenge.
In fact, it is worse .. it is just tedium. If it is about the journey, make it short and fun .. then move on to the next journey.
Originally posted by nariusseldon Originally posted by GravargI miss the days when a game took a year or even more to get to max level. MMOs are all about the journey, that is why people never like endgame...in any game.
Taking a long time != challenge.
In fact, it is worse .. it is just tedium. If it is about the journey, make it short and fun .. then move on to the next journey.
Except it isn't tedium to the players that enjoy the game. Just like repeating the same content in D3 might be a grind to some players, but exactly what others want in the game.
Don't blame others for your failure to adapt. Some MMO's are more than just a chat room, you have to strategize, plan, and think ahead. If something isn't working for you, then CHANGE. Switch classes, upgrade gear, learn to kite, etc. etc. There's already an MMO out there that's absolutely perfect for you, and it's still very popular. From what I hear your "type" is catered to very well there.
When you reach max level & max gear, you move on and play another game.
No one says a game needs to last forever. A few weeks is already longer than SP games. Making it too hard is obviously not the solution.
Just look at Sunwell raid back in BC WOW. Only 2% have played .. there is obviously something wrong when 98% of the players ignore the content.
No thanks. That's not fun.
I have single player, co-cp, normal multiplayer and lobby games for that kind of entertaiment.
Mmorpg bringing same kind of experience is really pointless. Since it is more conveniant, more fun and cheaper to play normal non-mmo lobby or mulitplayer games for that kind of experience.
Mmorpg are only fun when they are bringin challenging experience for long months or years coupled with virtual world experience.
Originally posted by GravargI miss the days when a game took a year or even more to get to max level. MMOs are all about the journey, that is why people never like endgame...in any game.
Taking a long time != challenge.
In fact, it is worse .. it is just tedium. If it is about the journey, make it short and fun .. then move on to the next journey.
Except it isn't tedium to the players that enjoy the game. Just like repeating the same content in D3 might be a grind to some players, but exactly what others want in the game.
I suppose. However, i doubt anyone want to take a YEAR to level up to max in D3. Doing D3 a few month is fun, but years? I highly doubt even the fringe fans (and i am a fan) will want that.
When you reach max level & max gear, you move on and play another game.
No one says a game needs to last forever. A few weeks is already longer than SP games. Making it too hard is obviously not the solution.
Just look at Sunwell raid back in BC WOW. Only 2% have played .. there is obviously something wrong when 98% of the players ignore the content.
No thanks. That's not fun.
I have single player, co-cp, normal multiplayer and lobby games for that kind of entertaiment.
Mmorpg bringing same kind of experience is really pointless. Since it is more conveniant, more fun and cheaper to play normal non-mmo lobby or mulitplayer games for that kind of experience.
Mmorpg are only fun when they are bringin challenging experience for long months or years coupled with virtual world experience.
Not really.
More convenient? It takes me the same amount of time to boot up & log into D3, vs WOW. I don't see a difference.
More fun? If the play style is the same, fun is the same.
Cheaper? Not really. D3 (not a MMO) costs $60. Many MMOs are FREE.
If MMOs provide a similar play style, similar fun level to co-op lobby MP games, and it is cheaper (in fact, MUCH cheaper), and as convenient, is there a really not to play it, if i like co-op lobby games? I think not.
The real problem is that devs are trying to make PVE and PVP work under identical conditions and it will NEVER work.
Pvp is often uncontrolled sloppy action with players all over the place doing their own thing.Balance NEEDS to be extremnely well done in pvp,especially 1on 1 which is pretty much what pvp is.
PVE on the other hand can accomodate unbalance and a great deal of it,because it is all about the group effort not the individual.
I have never liked the PVP push in rpg's,i prefer it to be content generated and players all working together to take down the content.
PVP on the otherhand is nothign about content,it is simply my player versus your player.I find too many players seem to be joining these MMORPGs ONLY to relinquish the game/content for a fast pvp end game.
NOBODY should be joining these MMORPG's asking what abotu end game,you shoudl be focused to play THE GAME and it's content.If people do not want content and just pvp there is tons of FPS games for that ,matter fact ,i play them and i am very good at it as well.
Never forget 3 mile Island and never trust a government official or company spokesman.
Comments
Devs never listen to the hardcore players. This is the reason all MMOs are exactly the same. If Devs didn't make childishly easy carebear games (see every themepark, including GW2, currently available) you would see a million clones of Eve Online. I always wondered what kind of idiot thought these games were hard.
Note to OP: They never listen to us... in fact, they are ONLY listening to you. GW2 is easy. Stop looking for quest lines and just start walking around and actually playing the game.
I am not a huge GW2 fan. I feel the PvP is a zergfest and the classes are extremely limited and unflexible. But, the PvE parts of the game are simply the best thing out right now.
When a company releases Star Wars Galaxies 2, I will poop my pants with joy!
Ug. I hate people that complain that a game is too hard. Just get better >.>
"Don't hate the Game, Hate your Aim"
[mod edit - referral removed]
So... I just want to know...
I didn't die a lot with my cute asura thief...
Does that make me a hardcore gamer with over the top skill? I'm flushing~
I am sorry the OP has had such a hard time in MMOs.
I think your frustration stems from the fact MMO DEVs are trying to earn as much money as possible from a very varied audience, so they constantly stear the directoin of the game from Hard to Easy, Casual to Hard, trying to placate as many people as possible.
Look at the WOW Dev cylce, they have it down to an art...
Step 1. Inital content release with Heroic Mode, things are very tough since they added another tier of gear.
Step 2. Post launch content adjustment and tuning to make things a little easier so more players can WIN.
Step 3. Big Nerf to content to make is acceptable to the masses and easy to WIN with non communicating PUGs.
Step 4. Lastly hand out Welfare gear for tokens to allow the everyone to out gear the Nerfed content and cake walk through it practically solo.
Rinse , Repeat....
And your ... " I died 2000 times" comment just feeds into my dream of a hardcore MMO like old skool EQ1 wihith XP loss, where even 100 deaths you would have deleveled you to 1st level. All games don't need to be designed to be "Winnable" by all people to be good.
Being an old MMO player, I don't view myself as being PRO but I find it hard to believe that people would have trouble with the greater majority of main stream MMO content if they even half pay attention.
To give feedback on moderation, contact mikeb@mmorpg.com
GW2 is easy mode. Took us a little more then 50 hours to cap out our first 80. A bit less for the second because my son doesnt work (he is 12!).
I wish games would get "Vangaurd" hard to be honest. It sucks that consol-itis now infiltraits our MMO's. We should lose lvls on death. Lose gear on pvp death. Etc.
/Signed,
Your friend,
-=W=-
"GW2 is the Methadone to WoWs Heroin."
Advertising has us chasing cars and clothes, working jobs we hate so we can buy shit we don't need.
hmm .. MMORPG .. the "G" stands for GAME. And MMOs are sold under VIDEO GAMES. If they are not games, what are they? Another life?
And i don't have to try .. MMOs are already games i like ... lobby based co-op GAMES. I can play many MMOs in that playstyle i like any time i want.
LOL .. we are talking about ENTERTAINMENT products here. We are not talking about real achievements, sports, career, or anything important.
Clearly you aren't a hero if you need a game in easy mode to become a hero.
There are people who feel heroic and do amazing things in games that actually have any difficulty. This stems from the same thought process that led to not keeping score in kids sports so that no one felt bad. It creates generations of people who have no drive to overcome adversity and make something of themselves.
I say take every game out there and make it minimum 2-3x as hard as it is now and we might be getting close to the golden age of gaming.
No .. just no.
And no one is a real hero. We are talking about GAMES here. Make belief. People should have fun with them ... and not feel like the game is impossible.
There is a reason the majority of people quit new MMOs after 2-6 weeks. A reason on why a game has 2 million in sales and 3 months later has 200k players only. That reason is the games are too easy. When you can max level, max gear, etc. in a couple of weeks, you get BORED.
Watch the forums and see the same people get hyped over each new release, get bored quickly and latch on to the hype of the next big release hoping it holds their attention.
Easy SEEMS fun when you are constantly getting rewards, getting stronger, destroying everything. However, in actuality it is boring you which is why you turn it off after a short time and don't go back.
I won't argue this point with you as they have done psychological studies to prove it already. What people THINK they want in games typically isn't what they actually want. They will in fact typically complain about the very things that make the game more exciting and fun and have no idea.
When you reach max level & max gear, you move on and play another game.
No one says a game needs to last forever. A few weeks is already longer than SP games. Making it too hard is obviously not the solution.
Just look at Sunwell raid back in BC WOW. Only 2% have played .. there is obviously something wrong when 98% of the players ignore the content.
A fool and his money will soon be parted.
If you by a $60 MMO so that you can get 2 weeks of play out of it and move on, well you're proving the proverb right. I will not buy a single player game that does not have over a month of serious game time enjoyment (nor will I buy one for $60 if I expect only a month of enjoyment). I also will not buy an MMO that I expect less than 3 months enjoyment with and 3 months is already a sad number for a perpetual game genre.
There is a reason so many of the "hard" initial MMOs continue to run after 13 years.
Enjoy your easy mode, some people need it I guess. Although this next statement will likely be seen as a personal attack, it isn't. It is a general statement: I can't see how someone who needs a game "easy" to play it could achieve much in the real world as everything would be far too "hard" to get anything done. Guess that explains the current state of the world.
that must be a joke..
What money? F2P MMOs costs nothing.
Taking a long time != challenge.
In fact, it is worse .. it is just tedium. If it is about the journey, make it short and fun .. then move on to the next journey.
In fact, it is worse .. it is just tedium. If it is about the journey, make it short and fun .. then move on to the next journey.
Except it isn't tedium to the players that enjoy the game. Just like repeating the same content in D3 might be a grind to some players, but exactly what others want in the game.
Hilarious post by the OP, a great read overall.
Don't blame others for your failure to adapt. Some MMO's are more than just a chat room, you have to strategize, plan, and think ahead. If something isn't working for you, then CHANGE. Switch classes, upgrade gear, learn to kite, etc. etc. There's already an MMO out there that's absolutely perfect for you, and it's still very popular. From what I hear your "type" is catered to very well there.
No thanks. That's not fun.
I have single player, co-cp, normal multiplayer and lobby games for that kind of entertaiment.
Mmorpg bringing same kind of experience is really pointless. Since it is more conveniant, more fun and cheaper to play normal non-mmo lobby or mulitplayer games for that kind of experience.
Mmorpg are only fun when they are bringin challenging experience for long months or years coupled with virtual world experience.
I suppose. However, i doubt anyone want to take a YEAR to level up to max in D3. Doing D3 a few month is fun, but years? I highly doubt even the fringe fans (and i am a fan) will want that.
Not really.
More convenient? It takes me the same amount of time to boot up & log into D3, vs WOW. I don't see a difference.
More fun? If the play style is the same, fun is the same.
Cheaper? Not really. D3 (not a MMO) costs $60. Many MMOs are FREE.
If MMOs provide a similar play style, similar fun level to co-op lobby MP games, and it is cheaper (in fact, MUCH cheaper), and as convenient, is there a really not to play it, if i like co-op lobby games? I think not.
Well yo uare missing out on the real point OP.
The real problem is that devs are trying to make PVE and PVP work under identical conditions and it will NEVER work.
Pvp is often uncontrolled sloppy action with players all over the place doing their own thing.Balance NEEDS to be extremnely well done in pvp,especially 1on 1 which is pretty much what pvp is.
PVE on the other hand can accomodate unbalance and a great deal of it,because it is all about the group effort not the individual.
I have never liked the PVP push in rpg's,i prefer it to be content generated and players all working together to take down the content.
PVP on the otherhand is nothign about content,it is simply my player versus your player.I find too many players seem to be joining these MMORPGs ONLY to relinquish the game/content for a fast pvp end game.
NOBODY should be joining these MMORPG's asking what abotu end game,you shoudl be focused to play THE GAME and it's content.If people do not want content and just pvp there is tons of FPS games for that ,matter fact ,i play them and i am very good at it as well.
Never forget 3 mile Island and never trust a government official or company spokesman.