I never liked the subsciption model. Why should I have to pay more money just to play a game online? It got easier to stomach because I got used to it. But I'd much rather just pay a one-time purchase fee.
F2P, in my opinion comes with too many caveats. I'd rather avoid that stuff and just buy the box price. If you want to offer an online shop too, fine. Just don't unbalance the game or infringe on my experience because of it.
Originally posted by Darkmoth Here's another alternative for you:
GW2 should offer a subscription option.
Seriously. Let me pay $15 bucks a month for GW2. In return, I get 2500 gems each month, extra bank slots and character slots, and a couple of unlocked Black Lion Chests per month. I'd pay for that in a hot second, and I'm not the only one.
So basically you want $50 worth of goods for only $15. Yeah I'm sure Anet will go for that.
Come on, hoss, work with me here.
What are the chances I'm going to buy $50 worth of gems every month? Pretty much zero. But my sub is guaranteed cash:
Expected value of sub = $15 x 100% = $15
Expected value of spending 50 bucks = 50 x <some very low number> = <much less than $15>
Obviously they'd want to tweak the value some, but they'd have to offer more than $15 in goods to make the sub worthwhile.
Not a casualty of GW2, but one of the yet to be released WildStar. It's like Tabula Rasa, that was announced to be closed one year before the Aion release. Looks like NCWest will only keep 100% NCSoft (subsidiary) developed games in their stable. And since CoH originated from Cryptic (and TR from Divinity Games) which is not an 'original' NCWest subsidiary, it has to go.
Sad though that for this reason alone a good running game is shut down. I do remember seeing some official numbers here on how good CoH did since it went F2P.
I'd much rather pay $15 / mo for a game like Rift where the developers have a clue what they are doing, constant game updates, and excellent account/customer support. Arena net skimped on all of the above and STILL have a very constricting cash shop. 30 shared bank slots? really?
Originally posted by Darkmoth Here's another alternative for you:
GW2 should offer a subscription option.
Seriously. Let me pay $15 bucks a month for GW2. In return, I get 2500 gems each month, extra bank slots and character slots, and a couple of unlocked Black Lion Chests per month. I'd pay for that in a hot second, and I'm not the only one.
So basically you want $50 worth of goods for only $15. Yeah I'm sure Anet will go for that.
Come on, hoss, work with me here.
What are the chances I'm going to buy $50 worth of gems every month? Pretty much zero. But my sub is guaranteed cash:
Expected value of sub = $15 x 100% = $15
Expected value of spending 50 bucks = 50 x =
Obviously they'd want to tweak the value some, but they'd have to offer more than $15 in goods to make the sub worthwhile.
Basic business.
Made me smile.
It is a strange phenomenon of these forums, but people take things far too literal, and totally fail to see the secondary meaning behind the words that are written.
I blame the lack for formal reading in schools or something, just amazing how the concept you were trying to impart was missed by so many.
I agree, I could actually be encouraged to pay a sub for GW2 if it gave me some sort of benefits to do so. Of course, don't know if there's anything in the cash shop I want, put in an option for an "automatic I win button" which can be used once a day to kill a player of my choosing (even if they are on my server) and I'm signing up right now.
Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing New Worlds atm
Fools find no pleasure in understanding but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV
Don't just play games, inhabit virtual worlds™
"This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon
Wow has what, about 8 million more people playing it when GW2 does, in it's first month when more people are playing it then every will, and they should drop the sub?
It often amazes me how dogmatic many mmo players are . Several years ago I brought up the subject of subscription fees in various forums on various sites saying that many mmos should offer an extended trial with optional micro transactions and a optional subcription fee or reduced subscriptions . I was shouted down by idiots saying they would pay 30-40-50 dollars a month for a sub if the game was decent .
It was obvious to anyone with common sence ( sadly lacking in most gamers ) that in such a market things had to change .
What I predict now is in the next five years we will see many more buy to play games . It will slowly become the industry standard model and within ten years we will see very few new subscription based models that have to chance to freemium as they fail.
The likes of the Elder Scrolls Online would do well to look at Buy to Play with optional cosmetic cash shops , downloadable contnent packs and expansion packs . If they dont such games will crash and burn . Much in the ways ToR did and TSW and Terra are likly to do .
Not even WoW can survive such a buy to play revolution and Blizzard should it happen would have to change its payment model ultimatly .
Sounds a bit far fetched to many of you I bet but common sence and mmo gamers often doesn't go together . Buy to plays the future and you may argue all that you like but you will ultimatly be proven wrong .
We should act like WoW fanbois and tribute every other game closing down or merging from now on as proof that GW2 is superior even if its completely unrelated and make a stretch to call its features like its B2P paymentmodel supior too.
Ah jp, any chance you and bcbully are related? Warring twins perhaps?
I would love if they all went B2P but I don't think they need to.
...and talk about a stretch with saying those games closed because of GW2.
1. For god's sake mmo gamers, enough with the analogies. They're unnecessary and your comparisons are terrible, dissimilar, and illogical.
2. To posters feeling the need to state how f2p really isn't f2p: Players understand the concept. You aren't privy to some secret the rest are missing. You're embarrassing yourself.
3. Yes, Cpt. Obvious, we're not industry experts. Now run along and let the big people use the forums for their purpose.
I'd much rather pay $15 / mo for a game like Rift where the developers have a clue what they are doing, constant game updates, and excellent account/customer support. Arena net skimped on all of the above and STILL have a very constricting cash shop. 30 shared bank slots? really?
Not many like Rift though or EVE . If Blizzard plowed the same sort of share of thier profits into WoW as those games do . Imagine what sort of game WoW could have been . Instead we have a cash cow increasingly being aimed at children with poor patches and expansions .
id love to boot up my ff11 collection again but with my life being so busy right now gw2 b2p model is where its at i dont pay a sub so i dont feel like im wasting a few dollars when i am unable to play for a few days at a time
I never liked the subsciption model. Why should I have to pay more money just to play a game online? It got easier to stomach because I got used to it. But I'd much rather just pay a one-time purchase fee.
F2P, in my opinion comes with too many caveats. I'd rather avoid that stuff and just buy the box price. If you want to offer an online shop too, fine. Just don't unbalance the game or infringe on my experience because of it.
Maybe because hardware and staff to maintain so many servers that gives stable endgame cost? Maybe because support cost? Usually is virtually unexistant with nonsub games. Maybe because I know from sub staff is constantly working on game, changing experience, improving, ...
I was shouted down by idiots saying they would pay 30-40-50 dollars a month for a sub if the game was decent .
It was obvious to anyone with common sence ( sadly lacking in most gamers ) that in such a market things had to change .
I think you need to take it back a step. Your initial proposition doesn't discredit their willingness to pay 30, 40, 50 or more dollars per month.
I sitll would pay that much per month if it was "worth it".
If there is a buy to play or even f2p game where the initial "buy in" was 2.00 USD or even "completely free" such as Aion's model and I didn't like the game then "nothing I paid would be worth it". And if it was completely free then I would offer that my time would not be worth it if I didn't like the game.
The only common sense here is that companies need to find ways to make money and the subsription method doesn't work unless they increase that subscription. But since developers can't put content out fast enough for theme park games players start wondering "what am I paying for". If they are wondering that at $15 then they will really wonder that at $20 or $30.
It's much easier for a b2p or f2p because you know exactly what you are paying for. It's more tangible. Oh yes I'm buyting that expansion, oh yes I'm buying that cosmetic outfit.
It becomes less about "oh yes I've paid another $15 for this month like I paid the last few months but I don't see anything new added. I just see that I still have access.
I like the b2p offering much better than f2p because it raises the bar on who gets in (if you are going to pay to get in then you are going to be a little more serious about why you are there) it allows developers to get back a good amount (or some amount) of their investment and it gives them incentive to conintualy offer content.
What I dont like about this model (or f2p) is that their hands are constnatly out for money. "This week look at this special/today only double the points!/buy x amount of points and get 50% more!" etc.
Like Skyrim? Need more content? Try my Skyrim mod "Godfred's Tomb."
So you mean every other game needs to rip people of by selling necessary items in a cash shop and "pretend" Buy to Play?
LOL, sorry but good games still deserve my sub money because I´m getting new content and updates for my monthly sub.
(At least in EvE and TSW)
Btw, I have a sub for EvE and I got the liftetime sub for TSW; this is REAL Buy to Play because there is nothing in the cash shop anyone really "needs".
So you mean every other game needs to rip people of by selling necessary items in a cash shop and "pretend" Buy to Play?
LOL, sorry but good games still deserve my sub money because I´m getting new content and updates for my monthly sub.
(At least in EvE and TSW)
Btw, I have a sub for EvE and I got the liftetime sub for TSW; this is REAL Buy to Play because there is nothing in the cash shop anyone really "needs".
I haven't felt the need to buy anything. The GW2 cash shop model is a good one.
I haven't felt the need to buy anything. The GW2 cash shop model is a good one.
Yeah, haven't bought a thing. Nor do I plan on it any time soon if ever. Their model works fine for me XD
If I did for something like a character slot by the time I get to that point would probably just use gold to get gems.
1. For god's sake mmo gamers, enough with the analogies. They're unnecessary and your comparisons are terrible, dissimilar, and illogical.
2. To posters feeling the need to state how f2p really isn't f2p: Players understand the concept. You aren't privy to some secret the rest are missing. You're embarrassing yourself.
3. Yes, Cpt. Obvious, we're not industry experts. Now run along and let the big people use the forums for their purpose.
So you mean every other game needs to rip people of by selling necessary items in a cash shop and "pretend" Buy to Play?
LOL, sorry but good games still deserve my sub money because I´m getting new content and updates for my monthly sub.
(At least in EvE and TSW)
Btw, I have a sub for EvE and I got the liftetime sub for TSW; this is REAL Buy to Play because there is nothing in the cash shop anyone really "needs".
I haven't felt the need to buy anything. The GW2 cash shop model is a good one.
Uh-huh. Then if no one is buying stuff of their cash shop, I wonder how they will finance update work without laying off 2/3 of their staff within the next month.
NCsoft sold less GW2 copies than Bioware sold SWTOR copies, and since there is ZERO subscription money flowing in @NCsoft, it´s like if Bioware had lost all their subscribers after the 1st free month which was included with SWTOR.
I´m really wondering how that is going to work. At some point they will try to get more money, most likely with a paid expansion for another 50 bucks in 3-4 months.
Uh-huh. Then if no one is buying stuff of their cash shop, I wonder how they will finance update work without laying off 2/3 of their staff within the next month.
NCsoft sold less GW2 copies than Bioware sold SWTOR copies, and since there is ZERO subscription money flowing in @NCsoft, it´s like if Bioware had lost all their subscribers after the 1st free month which was included with SWTOR.
I´m really wondering how that is going to work. At some point they will try to get more money, most likely with a paid expansion for another 50 bucks in 3-4 months.
First of all, he said he felt no need not that he hasn't even bought anything himself. Lot of assuming you're doing there.
Secondly, of course it sold less initially than SWTOR. Who the hell in their right mind thought it would?
Third, it is way too early for anyone to say if their model will work long term one way or the other. Looks promising to me but that is just my personal opinion.
Someone linked to comments related to cash shop sales in a post on the GW2 forum and some have already spent an absurd amount of money in the store. Well...absurd to me but if they have the money to spend and want to do so then all the more power to them.
1. For god's sake mmo gamers, enough with the analogies. They're unnecessary and your comparisons are terrible, dissimilar, and illogical.
2. To posters feeling the need to state how f2p really isn't f2p: Players understand the concept. You aren't privy to some secret the rest are missing. You're embarrassing yourself.
3. Yes, Cpt. Obvious, we're not industry experts. Now run along and let the big people use the forums for their purpose.
Uh-huh. Then if no one is buying stuff of their cash shop, I wonder how they will finance update work without laying off 2/3 of their staff within the next month.
NCsoft sold less GW2 copies than Bioware sold SWTOR copies, and since there is ZERO subscription money flowing in @NCsoft, it´s like if Bioware had lost all their subscribers after the 1st free month which was included with SWTOR.
I´m really wondering how that is going to work. At some point they will try to get more money, most likely with a paid expansion for another 50 bucks in 3-4 months.
First of all, he said he felt no need not that he hasn't even bought anything himself. Lot of assuming you're doing there.
Secondly, of course it sold less initially than SWTOR. Who the hell in their right mind thought it would?
Third, it is way too early for anyone to say if their model will work long term one way or the other. Looks promising to me but that is just my personal opinion.
Someone linked to comments related to cash shop sales in a post on the GW2 forum and some have already spent an absurd amount of money in the store. Well...absurd to me but if they have the money to spend and want to do so then all the more power to them.
I´m fine with GW2 being the guinea pig for the celebrated "buy2play" model (which is in fact like a cheaper version of a lifetime sub for a lot of other MMOs).
yeah perhaps there are enough people who spend insane amounts of money in the cash shop each month, to pay the bills for electricity, equipment, offices, staff and customer service at Arenanet to create updates and bugfixes. We will see...
Comments
I never liked the subsciption model. Why should I have to pay more money just to play a game online? It got easier to stomach because I got used to it. But I'd much rather just pay a one-time purchase fee.
F2P, in my opinion comes with too many caveats. I'd rather avoid that stuff and just buy the box price. If you want to offer an online shop too, fine. Just don't unbalance the game or infringe on my experience because of it.
Come on, hoss, work with me here.
What are the chances I'm going to buy $50 worth of gems every month? Pretty much zero. But my sub is guaranteed cash:
Expected value of sub = $15 x 100% = $15
Expected value of spending 50 bucks = 50 x <some very low number> = <much less than $15>
Obviously they'd want to tweak the value some, but they'd have to offer more than $15 in goods to make the sub worthwhile.
Basic business.
Not a casualty of GW2, but one of the yet to be released WildStar. It's like Tabula Rasa, that was announced to be closed one year before the Aion release. Looks like NCWest will only keep 100% NCSoft (subsidiary) developed games in their stable. And since CoH originated from Cryptic (and TR from Divinity Games) which is not an 'original' NCWest subsidiary, it has to go.
Sad though that for this reason alone a good running game is shut down. I do remember seeing some official numbers here on how good CoH did since it went F2P.
I'd much rather pay $15 / mo for a game like Rift where the developers have a clue what they are doing, constant game updates, and excellent account/customer support. Arena net skimped on all of the above and STILL have a very constricting cash shop. 30 shared bank slots? really?
Made me smile.
It is a strange phenomenon of these forums, but people take things far too literal, and totally fail to see the secondary meaning behind the words that are written.
I blame the lack for formal reading in schools or something, just amazing how the concept you were trying to impart was missed by so many.
I agree, I could actually be encouraged to pay a sub for GW2 if it gave me some sort of benefits to do so. Of course, don't know if there's anything in the cash shop I want, put in an option for an "automatic I win button" which can be used once a day to kill a player of my choosing (even if they are on my server) and I'm signing up right now.
"True friends stab you in the front." | Oscar Wilde
"I need to finish" - Christian Wolff: The Accountant
Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing New Worlds atm
Fools find no pleasure in understanding but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV
Don't just play games, inhabit virtual worlds™
"This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon
Wow has what, about 8 million more people playing it when GW2 does, in it's first month when more people are playing it then every will, and they should drop the sub?
That's called stupid business plan.
You just described a sub.
It often amazes me how dogmatic many mmo players are . Several years ago I brought up the subject of subscription fees in various forums on various sites saying that many mmos should offer an extended trial with optional micro transactions and a optional subcription fee or reduced subscriptions . I was shouted down by idiots saying they would pay 30-40-50 dollars a month for a sub if the game was decent .
It was obvious to anyone with common sence ( sadly lacking in most gamers ) that in such a market things had to change .
What I predict now is in the next five years we will see many more buy to play games . It will slowly become the industry standard model and within ten years we will see very few new subscription based models that have to chance to freemium as they fail.
The likes of the Elder Scrolls Online would do well to look at Buy to Play with optional cosmetic cash shops , downloadable contnent packs and expansion packs . If they dont such games will crash and burn . Much in the ways ToR did and TSW and Terra are likly to do .
Not even WoW can survive such a buy to play revolution and Blizzard should it happen would have to change its payment model ultimatly .
Sounds a bit far fetched to many of you I bet but common sence and mmo gamers often doesn't go together . Buy to plays the future and you may argue all that you like but you will ultimatly be proven wrong .
in the words of Fansy, the bard http://www.notacult.com/fansythefamous.htm
go go good team!
EQ2 fan sites
wow.
Just wow.
two games that are different from GW2, different themes, different subjects and you think that the recent release of GW2 made them immediately close?
Let's see how GW2 actually does over the year before we start saying that its very existence forces different games to cease to exist.
Godfred's Tomb Trailer: https://youtu.be/-nsXGddj_4w
Original Skyrim: https://www.nexusmods.com/skyrim/mods/109547
Serph toze kindly has started a walk-through. https://youtu.be/UIelCK-lldo
Ah jp, any chance you and bcbully are related? Warring twins perhaps?
I would love if they all went B2P but I don't think they need to.
...and talk about a stretch with saying those games closed because of GW2.
1. For god's sake mmo gamers, enough with the analogies. They're unnecessary and your comparisons are terrible, dissimilar, and illogical.
2. To posters feeling the need to state how f2p really isn't f2p: Players understand the concept. You aren't privy to some secret the rest are missing. You're embarrassing yourself.
3. Yes, Cpt. Obvious, we're not industry experts. Now run along and let the big people use the forums for their purpose.
Not many like Rift though or EVE . If Blizzard plowed the same sort of share of thier profits into WoW as those games do . Imagine what sort of game WoW could have been . Instead we have a cash cow increasingly being aimed at children with poor patches and expansions .
Maybe because hardware and staff to maintain so many servers that gives stable endgame cost? Maybe because support cost? Usually is virtually unexistant with nonsub games. Maybe because I know from sub staff is constantly working on game, changing experience, improving, ...
I think you need to take it back a step. Your initial proposition doesn't discredit their willingness to pay 30, 40, 50 or more dollars per month.
I sitll would pay that much per month if it was "worth it".
If there is a buy to play or even f2p game where the initial "buy in" was 2.00 USD or even "completely free" such as Aion's model and I didn't like the game then "nothing I paid would be worth it". And if it was completely free then I would offer that my time would not be worth it if I didn't like the game.
The only common sense here is that companies need to find ways to make money and the subsription method doesn't work unless they increase that subscription. But since developers can't put content out fast enough for theme park games players start wondering "what am I paying for". If they are wondering that at $15 then they will really wonder that at $20 or $30.
It's much easier for a b2p or f2p because you know exactly what you are paying for. It's more tangible. Oh yes I'm buyting that expansion, oh yes I'm buying that cosmetic outfit.
It becomes less about "oh yes I've paid another $15 for this month like I paid the last few months but I don't see anything new added. I just see that I still have access.
I like the b2p offering much better than f2p because it raises the bar on who gets in (if you are going to pay to get in then you are going to be a little more serious about why you are there) it allows developers to get back a good amount (or some amount) of their investment and it gives them incentive to conintualy offer content.
What I dont like about this model (or f2p) is that their hands are constnatly out for money. "This week look at this special/today only double the points!/buy x amount of points and get 50% more!" etc.
Godfred's Tomb Trailer: https://youtu.be/-nsXGddj_4w
Original Skyrim: https://www.nexusmods.com/skyrim/mods/109547
Serph toze kindly has started a walk-through. https://youtu.be/UIelCK-lldo
Does not compute.
So you mean every other game needs to rip people of by selling necessary items in a cash shop and "pretend" Buy to Play?
LOL, sorry but good games still deserve my sub money because I´m getting new content and updates for my monthly sub.
(At least in EvE and TSW)
Btw, I have a sub for EvE and I got the liftetime sub for TSW; this is REAL Buy to Play because there is nothing in the cash shop anyone really "needs".
I haven't felt the need to buy anything. The GW2 cash shop model is a good one.
LOL. Sure, everyone stopped playing Sci-Fi multiplayer space combat, to pick up a sword and kill minotaurs in GW2.
Sure.. lol
Dark Prophecy ran out of money, that happens if you don´t have a hype machine and marketing budget behind your back
Yeah, haven't bought a thing. Nor do I plan on it any time soon if ever. Their model works fine for me XD
If I did for something like a character slot by the time I get to that point would probably just use gold to get gems.
1. For god's sake mmo gamers, enough with the analogies. They're unnecessary and your comparisons are terrible, dissimilar, and illogical.
2. To posters feeling the need to state how f2p really isn't f2p: Players understand the concept. You aren't privy to some secret the rest are missing. You're embarrassing yourself.
3. Yes, Cpt. Obvious, we're not industry experts. Now run along and let the big people use the forums for their purpose.
Uh-huh. Then if no one is buying stuff of their cash shop, I wonder how they will finance update work without laying off 2/3 of their staff within the next month.
NCsoft sold less GW2 copies than Bioware sold SWTOR copies, and since there is ZERO subscription money flowing in @NCsoft, it´s like if Bioware had lost all their subscribers after the 1st free month which was included with SWTOR.
I´m really wondering how that is going to work. At some point they will try to get more money, most likely with a paid expansion for another 50 bucks in 3-4 months.
First of all, he said he felt no need not that he hasn't even bought anything himself. Lot of assuming you're doing there.
Secondly, of course it sold less initially than SWTOR. Who the hell in their right mind thought it would?
Third, it is way too early for anyone to say if their model will work long term one way or the other. Looks promising to me but that is just my personal opinion.
Someone linked to comments related to cash shop sales in a post on the GW2 forum and some have already spent an absurd amount of money in the store. Well...absurd to me but if they have the money to spend and want to do so then all the more power to them.
1. For god's sake mmo gamers, enough with the analogies. They're unnecessary and your comparisons are terrible, dissimilar, and illogical.
2. To posters feeling the need to state how f2p really isn't f2p: Players understand the concept. You aren't privy to some secret the rest are missing. You're embarrassing yourself.
3. Yes, Cpt. Obvious, we're not industry experts. Now run along and let the big people use the forums for their purpose.
I´m fine with GW2 being the guinea pig for the celebrated "buy2play" model (which is in fact like a cheaper version of a lifetime sub for a lot of other MMOs).
yeah perhaps there are enough people who spend insane amounts of money in the cash shop each month, to pay the bills for electricity, equipment, offices, staff and customer service at Arenanet to create updates and bugfixes. We will see...
you may be right - but none of that has been announced
ANET gave a press statement that GW2 having over 1 million prepurchases for their headstart weekend
ANET has given no announcements of 1 day preorders
ANET has given no announcements of launch day sales ---- yet
EQ2 fan sites