Purely my opinion of course, but after playing GW2 and enjoying it to a degree, I don't see the game having very much longevity. Want to find out why? Click below:
Tell you what, skip all side content, just level up our toon to lvl 80 and complain that game have no longevity or something.
I bought GW2 first day pre-order was available. I was in headstart. I played the game as warrior and I knew what I'm doing since I was in beta weekends.
When I want to "advance" I'm doing my story, hearts and stuff. When I'm bored with that I'm going to town and I'm doing some crafting using money I got from traveling and mats I found on the map. When I have new equipment and I'm bored with crafting I'm going to reveal yet another area, find some vistas, point of interests and stuff. When I'm bored with that I join PVP.
When I'm bored with that I ask on guild chat and we are going on dungeon hunting.
When I'm traveling I'm always trying to find some nice places, jumping puzzles etc. Sometimes in far side of the cave or something you can find narrow path with nice place at the end and treasure box.
BTW: I still have world vs world and I can always go back to crafting or something. And there is also lot of dynamic events around Hundreds of them!
There is plenty stuff to do and I enjoy it all. This is what I like in this game. It's rewarding no mater what to do. As example, exploration in TOR or RIFT was useless. Waste of time. Nothing interesting. This is one of few games where I enjoy just wandering around and looking into every corner.
Longevity ? I have 2x lvl 30 toons and I'm playing from very first day. I think that after a year or something I will be able to say "I'm finished". Expansion will be coming then probably AND ANet promised that they have team that will provide new content on monthly basis (new equipment, events and stuff).
Doing speed run in game like this is just like forcing early ejaculation :P You just don't do that. Enjoy.
longevity really is all individual based.. i can't say one game will last longer for me or you or anyone.. it really depends on if you value what is there or not. For me I enjoy the content enough and want to actually strive to get legendary weapons, map completetion, best looking pvp gear, dungeon gear... others may not have this drive at all. I have no drive to do raids or do another gear power treadmill.. it's all personal preference and no one is right or wrong.. I will say I find GW2 offers more options of things to do than most other MMOs especially for a newly released game.
Funny how the GW2 grind is "striving for something", whereas the WoW grind is a "treadmill". Your point is fine, but your wording is, mildly put, offensive.
I am currently a lvl 80 ranger, I enjoy the game, but at times I grind dungeons just for money and gear.(tokens) It does burn out quickly, but thank god its not a sub game. Sub games i always feel like i have to get my moneys worth. I see how some are burnt out, its just about what kind of player you are.
This part makes me *sigh*.
I seems people have this compulsion in sub games to "get their money's worth" in a weird way. Some are willing to give up 10 bucks for a character slot, which is IMO a rip off, but if one doesn't play the game for hours upon hours they feel like they're wasting money on their sub.
It seems like mmorpgs lonegevity isn't even judged by game mechanics and quality anymore, but about how free or not it is. Makes me wonder what would happen if GW2 had a aubscription fee.
Makes me wonder what would happen if GW2 had a aubscription fee.
Most of the people posting and playing wouldn't pay and GW2 wouldn't be the best thing since sliced bread they claim it t be.
No sub is one of the main reasons why people are playing. Just look at the thread that asked how many people spent money in the shop. 70% of the people who responded haven't. Have to wonder if the game is as good as some say if the majority of people playing don't want to spend money to support it.
I would play and enjoy GW2 even if there was the usual $15/month subscription. I actually already bougth for 30 Euros worth of gems - the same I would have paid for one month for my two WoW accounts. Unlike some, I don't mind paying for a leisure activity I enjoy, and I don't expect everything on the Internet to be free either.
Originally posted by ApacHeAM
Well my experience with this game lasted 2 days, after those I gave my account and my box to my nephew. Result? After 36 hrs he gave me the game back.
Epic fail, back to SWTOR!!!!!!
Thank you. At least you made me laugh
Originally posted by nsignific
Funny how the GW2 grind is "striving for something", whereas the WoW grind is a "treadmill". Your point is fine, but your wording is, mildly put, offensive.
The difference is obvious... in GW2, you are not a "gimp" until to finished the "grind". You don't need to be canon fodder for weeks if not months before being able to compete. And that, for many, changes everything. It's the difference between being forced in the grind and something you do at your own pace because it's not mandatory.
Respect, walk, what did you say? Respect, walk Are you talkin' to me? Are you talkin' to me? - PANTERA at HELLFEST 2023
^ that. I got GW2 for the pvp. We held off a castle for 5 hours back on Sunday in world vs world, it was the most fun I've had since the player faction base raids in SWG back in 2004. Back in City of Heroes, Recluse's Victory was also fun (before the issue 11 pvp patch).
If 15 minute shoebox pvp zones is your thing (with long queue times in between), so be it. I got sick of that crap in WoW and TOR.
I find it interesting how players will make a sweeping, generalized and negative statement against another game typically loaded with Hyperbole, then turn around and give us an example of something they did in the game they like as if its just the way thnigs are, always and forever.
For every example of fun you have in GW2 PVP others can list many more where it was a steamrolling zergfest of a lynch mob. And for every example of PVP in a "shoebox" you state, there are many more who will tell you an example of an epic battle they had in Wintergergrasp or Conquest.
If all these one off examples of epic-ness were the rule and not the exception, I doubt we'd be seeing so much backlash against these games right after they launched and failed to deliver on the over rated hype they enjoyed during development.
The "steamrolling zergfest of a lynch mob" is not the game's fault it is the playerbase. Defending/taking down player bases in SWG was some of the best MMO PvP I have ever participated in. While my memories are of the epic battles full of strategy...most of the time it was zerging or fending off the zerg. GW2 WvW is the same... and it's fun as hell imho. BTW I agree with you about Wintergrasp, it was a smaller version of this and had it's excting moments. Too bad it was not on a larger scale.
If 15 minute shoebox pvp zones is your thing (with long queue times in between), so be it. I got sick of that crap in WoW and TOR.
I find it interesting how players will make a sweeping, generalized and negative statement against another game typically loaded with Hyperbole, then turn around and give us an example of something they did in the game they like as if its just the way thnigs are, always and forever.
For every example of fun you have in GW2 PVP others can list many more where it was a steamrolling zergfest of a lynch mob. And for every example of PVP in a "shoebox" you state, there are many more who will tell you an example of an epic battle they had in Wintergergrasp or Conquest.
If all these one off examples of epic-ness were the rule and not the exception, I doubt we'd be seeing so much backlash against these games right after they launched and failed to deliver on the over rated hype they enjoyed during development.
i agree epic pvp battles are to be had in many games
but WOW Wintergrap keep and Tol Barad dont last longer than 30 minutes
Another thing. Lore and story are important to longevity. They are not the be all end all, ask bioware, but it's important to give players a sense of being a part of the world and what's happened and happening to it. It gives meaning to your actions.
If RIFT had better lore/story delivery, I'd probably still be playing. I played for 10 months. Up until now I felt RIFT had the worst story/lore delivery. GW2 now takes the cake, it's a bismal. I shouldn't have to look under a rock to find it. Level 55 with 200+ hours played, and no clue what's going on. Sure tell me I'm playing wrong, but I know I'm not the only one. I like that type stuff, it's nothing something that I gloss over when I come across. All I'm finding are a bunch of random plays telling me why I should escort or defend this camp.
^ that. I got GW2 for the pvp. We held off a castle for 5 hours back on Sunday in world vs world, it was the most fun I've had since the player faction base raids in SWG back in 2004. Back in City of Heroes, Recluse's Victory was also fun (before the issue 11 pvp patch).
If 15 minute shoebox pvp zones is your thing (with long queue times in between), so be it. I got sick of that crap in WoW and TOR.
I find it interesting how players will make a sweeping, generalized and negative statement against another game typically loaded with Hyperbole, then turn around and give us an example of something they did in the game they like as if its just the way thnigs are, always and forever.
For every example of fun you have in GW2 PVP others can list many more where it was a steamrolling zergfest of a lynch mob. And for every example of PVP in a "shoebox" you state, there are many more who will tell you an example of an epic battle they had in Wintergergrasp or Conquest.
If all these one off examples of epic-ness were the rule and not the exception, I doubt we'd be seeing so much backlash against these games right after they launched and failed to deliver on the over rated hype they enjoyed during development.
The "steamrolling zergfest of a lynch mob" is not the game's fault it is the playerbase. Defending/taking down player bases in SWG was some of the best MMO PvP I have ever participated in. While my memories are of the epic battles full of strategy...most of the time it was zerging or fending off the zerg. GW2 WvW is the same... and it's fun as hell imho. BTW I agree with you about Wintergrasp, it was a smaller version of this and had it's excting moments. Too bad it was not on a larger scale.
You missed my point. I was trying to say that it's easy to bash one game with generalizing hyperbole while ignoring anything positive to be said about it, then exaggerate some claim about another game with an example of "There was this one time..." as if it's always like that, to support the claim when in reality, both and/or neither actually deserve the descriptions they got by the poster.
longevity really is all individual based.. i can't say one game will last longer for me or you or anyone.. it really depends on if you value what is there or not. For me I enjoy the content enough and want to actually strive to get legendary weapons, map completetion, best looking pvp gear, dungeon gear... others may not have this drive at all. I have no drive to do raids or do another gear power treadmill.. it's all personal preference and no one is right or wrong.. I will say I find GW2 offers more options of things to do than most other MMOs especially for a newly released game.
Funny how the GW2 grind is "striving for something", whereas the WoW grind is a "treadmill". Your point is fine, but your wording is, mildly put, offensive.
It's like they are trying or coining terms and throwing out buzz words to discredit the entire industry and all that came before.
We'll see how this stratagy ends up working out. 2 million sold so far which is good, but that means there are about 13 million active mmorpgrs out there playing something else that these broad, simplified, general terms may offend.
I'll add why I think GW2 has enough content to make me busy for at least a year:
- 8 Challenging dungeons with 32 different experiences
at least not innovative
- over 1000 dynamic events. Arenanet stated they will be secretly adding new events to all zones
boring after lets say 50-100
- legendary weapons - they require a lot of effort and those who want to get prestige weapon skins with special effects has lots of work to do
too much grind for nothing
- exploration - tons of secret jumping puzzles
wow! jumping puzzles! what a kind of content...
- WvW - lots of fun, two week long matches, epic battles. This feature alone has tons of replayability.
repeatable zerg. nothing epic. just pure zerg
- sPvP - very adicting, almost DotA/League of Legends addicting, I can see myself spending lots of time here.
almost as dota / lol? you must be kidding
- Non-linear story. To see all branches of one race story you need to create at least 20 characters of the same race. Multiply that by 5 races and you get tons of replayability
non linear. 20 chars. tons of replayability. sure...
- By the end of this content new expansions will come, each adding 1 year worth of content
if you can play this kind of game/content for 1 year, then man, you are not an mmo player. you are a HERO!
longevity really is all individual based.. i can't say one game will last longer for me or you or anyone.. it really depends on if you value what is there or not. For me I enjoy the content enough and want to actually strive to get legendary weapons, map completetion, best looking pvp gear, dungeon gear... others may not have this drive at all. I have no drive to do raids or do another gear power treadmill.. it's all personal preference and no one is right or wrong.. I will say I find GW2 offers more options of things to do than most other MMOs especially for a newly released game.
Funny how the GW2 grind is "striving for something", whereas the WoW grind is a "treadmill". Your point is fine, but your wording is, mildly put, offensive.
It's like they are trying or coined terms and throughout buzz words to discredit the entire industry and all that came before.
We'll see how this stratagy ends up working out. 2 million sold so far which is good, but that means there are about 13 million active mmorpgrs out there playing something else that these broad, simplified, general terms may offend.
Some of the best examples of this type of discrediting "all that come before" is when they go off on the "carrot on a stick" and how people like the gear treadmil talking about Raiding. Then they add something like "Because they want to stomp other players" as if that's their motivation. And those statements only bare their own ignorance anyway since noone stomps other players in Raid gear anyway.
Another thing. Lore and story are important to longevity. They are not the be all end all, ask bioware, but it's important to give players a sense of being a part of the world and what's happened and happening to it. It gives meaning to your actions.
If RIFT had better lore/story delivery, I'd probably still be playing. I played for 10 months. Up until now I felt RIFT had the worst story/lore delivery. GW2 now takes the cake, it's a bismal. I shouldn't have to look under a rock to find it. Level 55 with 200+ hours played, and no clue what's going on. Sure tell me I'm playing wrong, but I know I'm not the only one. I like that type stuff, it's nothing something that I gloss over when I come across. All I'm finding are a bunch of random plays telling me why I should escort or defend this camp.
i agree GW2 world lore lacks when compared to GW1
ive seen lore, especially in the charr zones, because you'll find landmarks w writing related to GW1 lore
if you dont do your personal story, you'll miss the ongoing lore
your level 28 story quest should have sent you to Lions Arch where primary pieces of the GW2 story are revealed indirectly through kids playing a game
Another thing. Lore and story are important to longevity. They are not the be all end all, ask bioware, but it's important to give players a sense of being a part of the world and what's happened and happening to it. It gives meaning to your actions.
If RIFT had better lore/story delivery, I'd probably still be playing. I played for 10 months. Up until now I felt RIFT had the worst story/lore delivery. GW2 now takes the cake, it's a bismal. I shouldn't have to look under a rock to find it. Level 55 with 200+ hours played, and no clue what's going on. Sure tell me I'm playing wrong, but I know I'm not the only one. I like that type stuff, it's nothing something that I gloss over when I come across. All I'm finding are a bunch of random plays telling me why I should escort or defend this camp.
i agree GW2 world lore lacks when compared to GW1
ive seen lore, especially in the charr zones, because you'll find landmarks w writing related to GW1 lore
if you dont do your personal story, you'll miss the ongoing lore
your level 28 story quest should have sent you to Lions Arch where primary pieces of the GW2 story are revealed indirectly through kids playing a game
Another thing. Lore and story are important to longevity. They are not the be all end all, ask bioware, but it's important to give players a sense of being a part of the world and what's happened and happening to it. It gives meaning to your actions.
If RIFT had better lore/story delivery, I'd probably still be playing. I played for 10 months. Up until now I felt RIFT had the worst story/lore delivery. GW2 now takes the cake, it's a bismal. I shouldn't have to look under a rock to find it. Level 55 with 200+ hours played, and no clue what's going on. Sure tell me I'm playing wrong, but I know I'm not the only one. I like that type stuff, it's nothing something that I gloss over when I come across. All I'm finding are a bunch of random plays telling me why I should escort or defend this camp.
i agree GW2 world lore lacks when compared to GW1
ive seen lore, especially in the charr zones, because you'll find landmarks w writing related to GW1 lore
if you dont do your personal story, you'll miss the ongoing lore
your level 28 story quest should have sent you to Lions Arch where primary pieces of the GW2 story are revealed indirectly through kids playing a game
Thank you. I will do some more of the story. Maybe the lore is better
ot - Nord personal story = The Great Hunt? All I could think about was doing the swtor bounty hunter storyline "The Great Hunt." uhg. I rolled human instead lol.
To GezerGamer - the personal doesn't contradict the lore. To me it actually enhances the lore, since it places the personal history of your character in the Tyrian lore. Yes the character acting could be better.
Do you understand all of the Tyrian Lore - or just GW1? There were 3 books that explain the lore AFTER GW1. To totally understand it all - one needs to read them also.
To GezerGamer - the personal doesn't contradict the lore. To me it actually enhances the lore, since it places the personal history of your character in the Tyrian lore. Yes the character acting could be better.
Do you understand all of the Tyrian Lore - or just GW1? There were 3 books that explain the lore AFTER GW1. To totally understand it all - one needs to read them also.
the lore exists (especially in GW1 and 3 published novels)
but i agree w bcbully that the availability of lore ingame could use improvement
I seems people have this compulsion in sub games to "get their money's worth" in a weird way. Some are willing to give up 10 bucks for a character slot, which is IMO a rip off, but if one doesn't play the game for hours upon hours they feel like they're wasting money on their sub.
It seems like mmorpgs lonegevity isn't even judged by game mechanics and quality anymore, but about how free or not it is. Makes me wonder what would happen if GW2 had a aubscription fee.
Makes me wonder what would happen if GW2 had a aubscription fee.
Most of the people posting and playing wouldn't pay and GW2 wouldn't be the best thing since sliced bread they claim it t be.
No sub is one of the main reasons why people are playing. Just look at the thread that asked how many people spent money in the shop. 70% of the people who responded haven't. Have to wonder if the game is as good as some say if the majority of people playing don't want to spend money to support it.
To be fair, i do think GW2 is indeed a good game, and quite possibly the best themepark available right now.
However, i do agree that the business model is probably the true main element of the game. It seems to me that the reason why people aren't worried about "endgame" and "longevity" is because they don't feel "trapped" or "pressured to play" by the fee.
So i wonder, if GW2 did have a sub, what would be players outlook on grinding dungeons and Orr for cosmetic gear, running the same events, crafting professions, and doing the same general stuff you do in other TP mmorpgs like dailies? I believe people would, once again, forced themselves to find a true reason to log in, like TOR and all others.
This all comes off to me as that GW2 really doen't have any more longevity than standart themeparks or is any different once the "journey" is over. It may end up standing the test of time not by it's features, merits, quality and ability to create a perpetual world without an "end" (game, hehe). But simply because it's free. Again, this is only an opinion, and not a fact all, since i definitely can't know what would indeed happen in this case.
It actually cames me feel sad and ashamed as a gamer when mmorpgs and their lasting appeal, the most vital component, is judged not on the game, but the business model.
I totally disagree with author, but man, i must stress one thing. Author has to lay excuse after excuse for 1 minute just to make a video about HIS OPINION... And still gets bombed by dislikes. And rage of fanbois. And stuff.
I am shamed for GW2 fanboys. This is ridiculous. I love this game, but this either has to go, or... well, you continue poisioning life for yourself in the first place. You make your life worse, you make that other guy's life worse, you deter new players from playing the game you love (because they dont want to play with someone like you) and generally, you just do a lot of evil and no good.
If someone has an opinion and spends time to explain it and elaborate on it - debate with him on the points on his opinion, but disliking video for that reason? Come on...
That said, i completely disagree with most of the poins in the video.
1) Author generally says he dislikes story. Well, i do like story, until the point they started going too much of unneeded heroic deaths... But until that point, it was very fun. Tybalt is so cool. And overall, story made sense, felt like something personal and well, it played its part for me. Too bad you didnt like it, but this doesnt make other people being unable to like it. Doesnt make it bad, its just your presonal experience.
2) Author says "you have to be hooked to continue playing" - no you dont. It doesnt matter which game set the trend, it doesnt matter who does it where, it doesnt matter if 10 million players all over the world do it - you cannot say "this is how it should be, period" and in this case, its not one or two people who are against 10 million, but a lot of people disagree. I remember back in my school days, 10 years ago, we'd play Quake, C&C Renegade or Counter-Strike for hours.. because it was FUN! PRocess was fun! WE had no gear to grind, no items to gather, no achivements. We just came together in a lan cafe and played. Because it was fun to do so. Yes, it never got old for us until we finished school, and well, life changed, kinda.
Being hooked to play is one incentitive to play. Liking the process is another. Its a different view on life, and yes, there are both people in the world, both those who like the goal, and those who like the process. For example, european person would make origami to put it on his table, be like "i folded this cool stegosaurus and it took me 1 hour of hard work" and japanese person would make origami just to unfold it, because its the process of folding origami that matters, not the resulting figurine.
3) Author says "heart quests are too grindy". Well, once again, this is personal. You dont like it. I feel its pretty well balanced. I am at 70% map completion and I only had like 1 or 2 times when i was like "omg when am i going to finally complete this heart". Much more times (like 3 or 4 times), i was really in LOVE with heart quest (best one being learning about balance from Kodan, trading with Jotun coming second). And most of the time, they made sense and i like them.
4) I love jumping puzzle. What kind of feature is that? Its a feature i LOVE to have in GW2. Really. WoW hardocre raiders? Couldnt care less. They can hit their stupid bosses and feel "cool" and then come to WvW Eternal Battlegrounds and get owned by a jumping puzzle Yes, they can be implemented in any other MMO, and thats the point! Guild Wars 2 took something that can be done and... did it! Thats why we love it. It made something come true.
Game doesnt have to do something IMPOSSIBLE to prevail. Look @ SWTOR. They did OMG FULL VOICE DIALOGUE which noone ever did for MMO and never thought possible for an MMO. Did they win? NO, they failed! And now they say that expansions wont have full VO. Yep, epic fail.
GW2 did something everyone could do (dodge system, DE, jumping puzzles, quests with multiple ways to contribute to an end, frequent outdoor bosses, 3 side PVP, etc) and .... did it! Thats why its here, and thats why people play it.
5) Author doent like being able to buy from heart quest givers. Well, thats because those are not quests, but actually renown hearts. You dont accept work, you help for free. In turn, the person would become very pleased with you, and write you a PERSONAL LETTER, how cool is that? And yes, he/she will pay you for it! You can then buy stuff with money you got paid. And if you like, you can also get something from the person, but not for money, for currency that represents your renown in this world. You're soo cool and well known she's basically gonna give you a recepie of her apple pie, and some trinkerts for zero copper coins! For free (money-wise).
Author doesnt like it, but there are no arguments presented to prove its a faulty scheme. To me it pretty much works all right!
6) Looks. Yes low level gear is kinda same, unfortunately. When you get higher you get a lot of choices in gear, and endgame, gear appearance is the thing you grind for (like you grind for stats in WoW). Gear appearance has a lot of deph!
Btw, you say you dislike that you have to reach endgame to look cool, but you say WoW does it right where you not only have to get to endgame to look cool, but to play anything interesting or have cool stats. This is self-controversing. Eitehr you like to grind to endgame to get good gear, or you dont...
7) You do get new abilities as you level. You get one third of your active buttons over first half of your levels - your 3 utilities and ultimate (thats 4 buttons out of 7-10). You get different skills all over the game progress - you need skillpoints to unlock the skills, and it takes you more than reaching your max level to get all abilities your class has. So in some sense, this game has even bigger ability progression than WoW or WoW-Clones, where by lvl cap you have all abilitties your class has to offer.
8) I agree that DEs sometimes repeat too frequently and de-immersify you. However, in WoW its even worse, where EVERYTHING is temporarily (bandit leader you killed respawns 2 minutes later for other player to kill him).
Still, Author is entitled to his opinion. In my opinion, OP, you are bound by stupid stereotypes and thats what prevents you from having fun. You keep coming to "this is stupid because its not like WoW, my WoW friends would laugh at this". You dont need your WoW friends to approve what you're having fun doing! You can have fun, without anyone else approval.
If you dislike how game is made, thats your opinion, you dont have to continue playing. No problems.
I hate to tell you this, but GW2 will never get away from zerg fights. There are limits that are working in conjunction that will prettymuch ensure that the GW2 Trinity-less mechanics will never become mainstream adaptations in other MMOs.
In traditional mechanics dodge is a stat that's built into your character. It's handled by RNG mechanics and damage is mitigated accordingly. Now, we have dodge as a manual skill which requires a much higer level of situational awareness than before. And while it's fun like in console games, there is a limit to the amount of information that a person can process. This Condition/boon system requires that all players be situationally aware of the conditions of everyone in the team. Just how well can the average casual gamer adapt to this? It's been called "skill" in GW2. lol, Learning to recognize visual queues and respond accodingly is indeed a skill. But its one we teach to small children and not difficult to master. And while this makes the game more exciting and fun....like a console game, it's got limits. Even the best most coordinated teams would probably begin to break down with much bigger groups in instances. Now combine this with the lack of Role focused tanking and healing and now boss fights must cater more to the individuals. So we can't have these huge bosses with big hits. I'm sure one or the other would handle better, but both mechanics at the same time. Good luck. Best you can do is tweak their AOEs. So now these large fights degenerate into a mass of players running around trying not to stand in red circles while getting as many hits in as possible between boss attacks. Just one big "every man for himself" session
YAY! FUN!
Will never get away from zerg fights. Ya, your probably right because sadly people would start making threads constantly on the difficulty of dungeons if they made it so you can't rez during a boss fight. And honestly I think they should, just to stop all this BS about zerging fights and thats how it is easy mode.
Ever once think that the designers didn't want people to just sit there and press buttons instead of being situationally aware of your sorroundings. I'm not saying other mmos don't require this... but at the same time, other mmos don't punish you nearly as bad for it. Calling hand eye coordination a childs game is just pointless. Would you rather them take the same exact approach that every other MMO took with combat where you can't move and cast, reaction is hardly an issue and fights are generalized to the point of making them tedious? This was a design choice, and it makes you think a little more and be more involved with your game rather than being afk pushing buttons or staring at meters.
Now you can actually follow fights, watch your footing, and instead of just dpsing, you are fighting with your group how you should be, on equal footing rather than expecting someone else to take the brunt of the damage and another heal your wounds.
Honestly, would you rather it catter to the group comp, rather than the individual? So that every fight is trivial in nature and your forced to match specific roles? The only thing I enjoyed in WoW and other raid oriented, trinity system MMOs was the interaction with guildies and friends. But now that I can do that and enjoy my PvE experience, how is this game worse in terms of mechanics. This game can easily put in instances as effectively as WoW or any other MMO can regardless of the lack of trinity system. I don't get how you think that cattering to the individual is such a hard concept from cattering to the roles. But if you don't like the dodging system or the fight mechanics, then don't play the instances. If you can enjoy your experience another way, then thats fine. But you can't honestly tell me that any other MMOs system is more complicated and difficult than GW2.
I guess we can leave out the fact that there are very team oriented fights too BTW, or that people can actually work together to make each other stronger, but you can keep that "every man for himself" quality. In GW2 instead of relying on your healer or tank, you have to rely on yourself while also being a team player, it's not a free for all like you think it is.
I will watch the Video later if I have time- But honestly I do not need to...Pretty sure I know whats said.
I agree too- It does lack longevity. Its not a full fledged MMORPG (more like an ARPG with Massive Online components). Its very casual...
But, its fun. And it doesnt need Longevity like a subscription title,
GW2 has done some very creative marketing and essentially sold a F2P cash shop game for $50- $60. Then they will get a small Xpac out every year or so for another $40- $50. Most have at least purchased Bag space from the CS... They are making money hand over fist and do not NEED high player retention (just enough to keep the servers active) and each Xpac will bring an influx of former players back to the game for a short time.
This was a genius marketing Blitz. And the game is fun.
No. It doesnt have "staying power" and if it were based on a "sub" I would feel pretty ripped off and (obviously) not re sub...But they already sold me a box and some Bag Space and I play a few hours a week (and plan to play at a casual rate) and it makes a nice second Online game to play while taking a break from your main Game.
I am happy.
curious in your opinion as to how it's not a full fledged MMO?
Its very much missing the "RPG" part IMHO.
A full fledged MMO it certainly is . But more of an "ARPG" (action role playing game) that has been simplified and is ultra casual. This is fine, but it truly lacks depth and is more "pick up and play" for a few hours here and there.
To put it simply- GW2 is more like Diablo (without the Loot) than like FF7 (without the loot). Bad comparison, I know, but I am trying to show a very stark difference in game styles- One being an ARPG.
Well we call WoW an MMORPG yet GW2 has more roleplaying in it (factually speaking it actually does) so why is GW2 not an RPG?
Or are you of the mindset that WoW is an ARPG?
PS - Geezergamer : are you really suggesting that situational awareness is a child level skill? Your post seriously doesn't make sense... first you say your average gamer will never be able to adapt to GW2's system then you say the skills that are required they teach to children. Are you saying everyone is stupid?
You don't need to bash skills you don't have. Situational awareness is a skill taught throughout life and is probably one of those "top tier" skills you can learn. It;s used everywhere.
However, i do agree that the business model is probably the true main element of the game. It seems to me that the reason why people aren't worried about "endgame" and "longevity" is because they don't feel "trapped" or "pressured to play" by the fee.
So i wonder, if GW2 did have a sub, what would be players outlook on grinding dungeons and Orr for cosmetic gear, running the same events, crafting professions, and doing the same general stuff you do in other TP mmorpgs like dailies? I believe people would, once again, forced themselves to find a true reason to log in, like TOR and all others.
This all comes off to me as that GW2 really doen't have any more longevity than standart themeparks or is any different once the "journey" is over. It may end up standing the test of time not by it's features, merits, quality and ability to create a perpetual world without an "end" (game, hehe). But simply because it's free. Again, this is only an opinion, and not a fact all, since i definitely can't know what would indeed happen in this case.
It actually cames me feel sad and ashamed as a gamer when mmorpgs and their lasting appeal, the most vital component, is judged not on the game, but the business model.
I also believe along these lines. Which then leads me to ask since so many judge an MMO based on its business model, are these critics being unfair to the games themselves?
I think so. A game should be held by its gameplay above cost.
An example:
Audi R8 Spyder (top of the line sportscar) is considered a great car, not because of it's price but because of its features.
Economy classed Hundai might be suitable for those on a budget, but if you compare each car to one another, most wouldn't consider the Hyundai a better car.
Why then should we automatically consider GW2 a superior game because it lacks a sub fee? I do believe a lot of people do this, sometimes unconsciously.
Yes, you can keep coming back to GW2 after you buy it, but does that really enhance its longevity? If player A plays GW2 for 2000 hours over a 5 year period and player B plays WoW 2k hours over a 6 month period does that automatically mean GW2 has the better longevity? I don't think so. They both put the same amount of time in, hence played the same amount irregardless of how long it took them to put in that time.
To GezerGamer - the personal doesn't contradict the lore. To me it actually enhances the lore, since it places the personal history of your character in the Tyrian lore. Yes the character acting could be better.
Do you understand all of the Tyrian Lore - or just GW1? There were 3 books that explain the lore AFTER GW1. To totally understand it all - one needs to read them also.
I am more refering to game play than actual lore. It's like, in your personal story, it's actually over the top how you are regarded as a living legend. It's thick, but ok, it is what it is. You are the savior of the world.
And then as a reward, your "hero's welcome" is to go do hearts where you are treated more like a farmhand. Go do all these mimimum wage manual labor jobs that no one in their right mind would ever want to do in real life. Why on earth do I want to log in and do them in a fatasy setting?
Originally posted by bcbully Originally posted by halflife25Prime time EU, 9 servers are already on medium population. They were all high for first week. We will see how it goes in a month or so. I haven't checked US servers during prime time.
I've been looking at this too. US during prime time lastnight were all heavy none were full. There has been about eight or nine servers full up until the last few days.
I think it's too early to use this as an indicator of anything though, because I've "heard" they increased server size. I do think the less populated severs have gotten smaller though, judging by WvW.
Arenanet increased server capacity and turned on digital sales again, I'm assuming the server capacity also pushed the population threshold as well. Everyday on Yak's Bend, 99% of the zones kicks me into overflow during the evenings (west coast/mountain times).
Comments
Tell you what, skip all side content, just level up our toon to lvl 80 and complain that game have no longevity or something.
I bought GW2 first day pre-order was available. I was in headstart. I played the game as warrior and I knew what I'm doing since I was in beta weekends.
When I want to "advance" I'm doing my story, hearts and stuff. When I'm bored with that I'm going to town and I'm doing some crafting using money I got from traveling and mats I found on the map. When I have new equipment and I'm bored with crafting I'm going to reveal yet another area, find some vistas, point of interests and stuff. When I'm bored with that I join PVP.
When I'm bored with that I ask on guild chat and we are going on dungeon hunting.
When I'm traveling I'm always trying to find some nice places, jumping puzzles etc. Sometimes in far side of the cave or something you can find narrow path with nice place at the end and treasure box.
BTW: I still have world vs world and I can always go back to crafting or something. And there is also lot of dynamic events around
Hundreds of them!
There is plenty stuff to do and I enjoy it all. This is what I like in this game. It's rewarding no mater what to do. As example, exploration in TOR or RIFT was useless. Waste of time. Nothing interesting. This is one of few games where I enjoy just wandering around and looking into every corner.
Longevity ? I have 2x lvl 30 toons and I'm playing from very first day. I think that after a year or something I will be able to say "I'm finished". Expansion will be coming then probably AND ANet promised that they have team that will provide new content on monthly basis (new equipment, events and stuff).
Doing speed run in game like this is just like forcing early ejaculation :P You just don't do that. Enjoy.
Funny how the GW2 grind is "striving for something", whereas the WoW grind is a "treadmill". Your point is fine, but your wording is, mildly put, offensive.
I would play and enjoy GW2 even if there was the usual $15/month subscription. I actually already bougth for 30 Euros worth of gems - the same I would have paid for one month for my two WoW accounts. Unlike some, I don't mind paying for a leisure activity I enjoy, and I don't expect everything on the Internet to be free either.
Thank you. At least you made me laugh
The difference is obvious... in GW2, you are not a "gimp" until to finished the "grind". You don't need to be canon fodder for weeks if not months before being able to compete. And that, for many, changes everything. It's the difference between being forced in the grind and something you do at your own pace because it's not mandatory.
Respect, walk
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- PANTERA at HELLFEST 2023
The "steamrolling zergfest of a lynch mob" is not the game's fault it is the playerbase. Defending/taking down player bases in SWG was some of the best MMO PvP I have ever participated in. While my memories are of the epic battles full of strategy...most of the time it was zerging or fending off the zerg. GW2 WvW is the same... and it's fun as hell imho. BTW I agree with you about Wintergrasp, it was a smaller version of this and had it's excting moments. Too bad it was not on a larger scale.
i agree epic pvp battles are to be had in many games
but WOW Wintergrap keep and Tol Barad dont last longer than 30 minutes
TOR, i have no clue on duration of matches
EQ2 fan sites
Another thing. Lore and story are important to longevity. They are not the be all end all, ask bioware, but it's important to give players a sense of being a part of the world and what's happened and happening to it. It gives meaning to your actions.
If RIFT had better lore/story delivery, I'd probably still be playing. I played for 10 months. Up until now I felt RIFT had the worst story/lore delivery. GW2 now takes the cake, it's a bismal. I shouldn't have to look under a rock to find it. Level 55 with 200+ hours played, and no clue what's going on. Sure tell me I'm playing wrong, but I know I'm not the only one. I like that type stuff, it's nothing something that I gloss over when I come across. All I'm finding are a bunch of random plays telling me why I should escort or defend this camp.
You missed my point. I was trying to say that it's easy to bash one game with generalizing hyperbole while ignoring anything positive to be said about it, then exaggerate some claim about another game with an example of "There was this one time..." as if it's always like that, to support the claim when in reality, both and/or neither actually deserve the descriptions they got by the poster.
It's like they are trying or coining terms and throwing out buzz words to discredit the entire industry and all that came before.
We'll see how this stratagy ends up working out. 2 million sold so far which is good, but that means there are about 13 million active mmorpgrs out there playing something else that these broad, simplified, general terms may offend.
Some of the best examples of this type of discrediting "all that come before" is when they go off on the "carrot on a stick" and how people like the gear treadmil talking about Raiding. Then they add something like "Because they want to stomp other players" as if that's their motivation. And those statements only bare their own ignorance anyway since noone stomps other players in Raid gear anyway.
i agree GW2 world lore lacks when compared to GW1
ive seen lore, especially in the charr zones, because you'll find landmarks w writing related to GW1 lore
if you dont do your personal story, you'll miss the ongoing lore
your level 28 story quest should have sent you to Lions Arch where primary pieces of the GW2 story are revealed indirectly through kids playing a game
Guild Wars 2: Destiny's Edge - Children's version
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fmcOMKCbB2g&feature=relmfu
EQ2 fan sites
Now, if only the personal story didn't contradict the rest of the GW2 experinence.
Thank you. I will do some more of the story. Maybe the lore is better
ot - Nord personal story = The Great Hunt? All I could think about was doing the swtor bounty hunter storyline "The Great Hunt." uhg. I rolled human instead lol.
To GezerGamer - the personal doesn't contradict the lore. To me it actually enhances the lore, since it places the personal history of your character in the Tyrian lore. Yes the character acting could be better.
Do you understand all of the Tyrian Lore - or just GW1? There were 3 books that explain the lore AFTER GW1. To totally understand it all - one needs to read them also.
the lore exists (especially in GW1 and 3 published novels)
but i agree w bcbully that the availability of lore ingame could use improvement
EQ2 fan sites
To be fair, i do think GW2 is indeed a good game, and quite possibly the best themepark available right now.
However, i do agree that the business model is probably the true main element of the game. It seems to me that the reason why people aren't worried about "endgame" and "longevity" is because they don't feel "trapped" or "pressured to play" by the fee.
So i wonder, if GW2 did have a sub, what would be players outlook on grinding dungeons and Orr for cosmetic gear, running the same events, crafting professions, and doing the same general stuff you do in other TP mmorpgs like dailies? I believe people would, once again, forced themselves to find a true reason to log in, like TOR and all others.
This all comes off to me as that GW2 really doen't have any more longevity than standart themeparks or is any different once the "journey" is over. It may end up standing the test of time not by it's features, merits, quality and ability to create a perpetual world without an "end" (game, hehe). But simply because it's free. Again, this is only an opinion, and not a fact all, since i definitely can't know what would indeed happen in this case.
It actually cames me feel sad and ashamed as a gamer when mmorpgs and their lasting appeal, the most vital component, is judged not on the game, but the business model.
I totally disagree with author, but man, i must stress one thing. Author has to lay excuse after excuse for 1 minute just to make a video about HIS OPINION... And still gets bombed by dislikes. And rage of fanbois. And stuff.
I am shamed for GW2 fanboys. This is ridiculous. I love this game, but this either has to go, or... well, you continue poisioning life for yourself in the first place. You make your life worse, you make that other guy's life worse, you deter new players from playing the game you love (because they dont want to play with someone like you) and generally, you just do a lot of evil and no good.
If someone has an opinion and spends time to explain it and elaborate on it - debate with him on the points on his opinion, but disliking video for that reason? Come on...
That said, i completely disagree with most of the poins in the video.
1) Author generally says he dislikes story. Well, i do like story, until the point they started going too much of unneeded heroic deaths... But until that point, it was very fun. Tybalt is so cool. And overall, story made sense, felt like something personal and well, it played its part for me. Too bad you didnt like it, but this doesnt make other people being unable to like it. Doesnt make it bad, its just your presonal experience.
2) Author says "you have to be hooked to continue playing" - no you dont. It doesnt matter which game set the trend, it doesnt matter who does it where, it doesnt matter if 10 million players all over the world do it - you cannot say "this is how it should be, period" and in this case, its not one or two people who are against 10 million, but a lot of people disagree. I remember back in my school days, 10 years ago, we'd play Quake, C&C Renegade or Counter-Strike for hours.. because it was FUN! PRocess was fun! WE had no gear to grind, no items to gather, no achivements. We just came together in a lan cafe and played. Because it was fun to do so. Yes, it never got old for us until we finished school, and well, life changed, kinda.
Being hooked to play is one incentitive to play. Liking the process is another. Its a different view on life, and yes, there are both people in the world, both those who like the goal, and those who like the process. For example, european person would make origami to put it on his table, be like "i folded this cool stegosaurus and it took me 1 hour of hard work" and japanese person would make origami just to unfold it, because its the process of folding origami that matters, not the resulting figurine.
3) Author says "heart quests are too grindy". Well, once again, this is personal. You dont like it. I feel its pretty well balanced. I am at 70% map completion and I only had like 1 or 2 times when i was like "omg when am i going to finally complete this heart". Much more times (like 3 or 4 times), i was really in LOVE with heart quest (best one being learning about balance from Kodan, trading with Jotun coming second). And most of the time, they made sense and i like them.
4) I love jumping puzzle. What kind of feature is that? Its a feature i LOVE to have in GW2. Really. WoW hardocre raiders? Couldnt care less. They can hit their stupid bosses and feel "cool" and then come to WvW Eternal Battlegrounds and get owned by a jumping puzzle
Yes, they can be implemented in any other MMO, and thats the point! Guild Wars 2 took something that can be done and... did it! Thats why we love it. It made something come true.
Game doesnt have to do something IMPOSSIBLE to prevail. Look @ SWTOR. They did OMG FULL VOICE DIALOGUE which noone ever did for MMO and never thought possible for an MMO. Did they win? NO, they failed! And now they say that expansions wont have full VO. Yep, epic fail.
GW2 did something everyone could do (dodge system, DE, jumping puzzles, quests with multiple ways to contribute to an end, frequent outdoor bosses, 3 side PVP, etc) and .... did it! Thats why its here, and thats why people play it.
5) Author doent like being able to buy from heart quest givers. Well, thats because those are not quests, but actually renown hearts. You dont accept work, you help for free. In turn, the person would become very pleased with you, and write you a PERSONAL LETTER, how cool is that? And yes, he/she will pay you for it! You can then buy stuff with money you got paid. And if you like, you can also get something from the person, but not for money, for currency that represents your renown in this world. You're soo cool and well known she's basically gonna give you a recepie of her apple pie, and some trinkerts for zero copper coins! For free (money-wise).
Author doesnt like it, but there are no arguments presented to prove its a faulty scheme. To me it pretty much works all right!
6) Looks. Yes low level gear is kinda same, unfortunately. When you get higher you get a lot of choices in gear, and endgame, gear appearance is the thing you grind for (like you grind for stats in WoW). Gear appearance has a lot of deph!
Btw, you say you dislike that you have to reach endgame to look cool, but you say WoW does it right where you not only have to get to endgame to look cool, but to play anything interesting or have cool stats. This is self-controversing. Eitehr you like to grind to endgame to get good gear, or you dont...
7) You do get new abilities as you level. You get one third of your active buttons over first half of your levels - your 3 utilities and ultimate (thats 4 buttons out of 7-10). You get different skills all over the game progress - you need skillpoints to unlock the skills, and it takes you more than reaching your max level to get all abilities your class has. So in some sense, this game has even bigger ability progression than WoW or WoW-Clones, where by lvl cap you have all abilitties your class has to offer.
8) I agree that DEs sometimes repeat too frequently and de-immersify you. However, in WoW its even worse, where EVERYTHING is temporarily (bandit leader you killed respawns 2 minutes later for other player to kill him).
Still, Author is entitled to his opinion. In my opinion, OP, you are bound by stupid stereotypes and thats what prevents you from having fun. You keep coming to "this is stupid because its not like WoW, my WoW friends would laugh at this". You dont need your WoW friends to approve what you're having fun doing! You can have fun, without anyone else approval.
If you dislike how game is made, thats your opinion, you dont have to continue playing. No problems.
Will never get away from zerg fights. Ya, your probably right because sadly people would start making threads constantly on the difficulty of dungeons if they made it so you can't rez during a boss fight. And honestly I think they should, just to stop all this BS about zerging fights and thats how it is easy mode.
Ever once think that the designers didn't want people to just sit there and press buttons instead of being situationally aware of your sorroundings. I'm not saying other mmos don't require this... but at the same time, other mmos don't punish you nearly as bad for it. Calling hand eye coordination a childs game is just pointless. Would you rather them take the same exact approach that every other MMO took with combat where you can't move and cast, reaction is hardly an issue and fights are generalized to the point of making them tedious? This was a design choice, and it makes you think a little more and be more involved with your game rather than being afk pushing buttons or staring at meters.
Now you can actually follow fights, watch your footing, and instead of just dpsing, you are fighting with your group how you should be, on equal footing rather than expecting someone else to take the brunt of the damage and another heal your wounds.
Honestly, would you rather it catter to the group comp, rather than the individual? So that every fight is trivial in nature and your forced to match specific roles? The only thing I enjoyed in WoW and other raid oriented, trinity system MMOs was the interaction with guildies and friends. But now that I can do that and enjoy my PvE experience, how is this game worse in terms of mechanics. This game can easily put in instances as effectively as WoW or any other MMO can regardless of the lack of trinity system. I don't get how you think that cattering to the individual is such a hard concept from cattering to the roles. But if you don't like the dodging system or the fight mechanics, then don't play the instances. If you can enjoy your experience another way, then thats fine. But you can't honestly tell me that any other MMOs system is more complicated and difficult than GW2.
I guess we can leave out the fact that there are very team oriented fights too BTW, or that people can actually work together to make each other stronger, but you can keep that "every man for himself" quality. In GW2 instead of relying on your healer or tank, you have to rely on yourself while also being a team player, it's not a free for all like you think it is.
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Well we call WoW an MMORPG yet GW2 has more roleplaying in it (factually speaking it actually does) so why is GW2 not an RPG?
Or are you of the mindset that WoW is an ARPG?
PS - Geezergamer : are you really suggesting that situational awareness is a child level skill? Your post seriously doesn't make sense... first you say your average gamer will never be able to adapt to GW2's system then you say the skills that are required they teach to children. Are you saying everyone is stupid?
You don't need to bash skills you don't have. Situational awareness is a skill taught throughout life and is probably one of those "top tier" skills you can learn. It;s used everywhere.
I also believe along these lines. Which then leads me to ask since so many judge an MMO based on its business model, are these critics being unfair to the games themselves?
I think so. A game should be held by its gameplay above cost.
An example:
Audi R8 Spyder (top of the line sportscar) is considered a great car, not because of it's price but because of its features.
Economy classed Hundai might be suitable for those on a budget, but if you compare each car to one another, most wouldn't consider the Hyundai a better car.
Why then should we automatically consider GW2 a superior game because it lacks a sub fee? I do believe a lot of people do this, sometimes unconsciously.
Yes, you can keep coming back to GW2 after you buy it, but does that really enhance its longevity? If player A plays GW2 for 2000 hours over a 5 year period and player B plays WoW 2k hours over a 6 month period does that automatically mean GW2 has the better longevity? I don't think so. They both put the same amount of time in, hence played the same amount irregardless of how long it took them to put in that time.
I am more refering to game play than actual lore. It's like, in your personal story, it's actually over the top how you are regarded as a living legend. It's thick, but ok, it is what it is. You are the savior of the world.
And then as a reward, your "hero's welcome" is to go do hearts where you are treated more like a farmhand. Go do all these mimimum wage manual labor jobs that no one in their right mind would ever want to do in real life. Why on earth do I want to log in and do them in a fatasy setting?
Makes more sense. lol
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I think it's too early to use this as an indicator of anything though, because I've "heard" they increased server size. I do think the less populated severs have gotten smaller though, judging by WvW.
Arenanet increased server capacity and turned on digital sales again, I'm assuming the server capacity also pushed the population threshold as well. Everyday on Yak's Bend, 99% of the zones kicks me into overflow during the evenings (west coast/mountain times).
This was common knowledge even before the launch.
People ignored it.
Now it bites them in the arse.