I have as much nostolgia for aspects of UO and SWG as the next vet -
But yeah they were very grind heavy.
All quests and quests hubs are is a disguise for the grind - we all know that.
You can level up 1-max level in WoW or Rift or whatever without doing a single quest - it might suck a bit, might suck less in Rift cause of Rifts, but it can (and has) been done.
You can level up 1-80 in GW2 without completing a single Heart quest - except maybe by accident cause of a near by event - but as with all gaming "If you build it they will come" and they will also find the most efficient means to maximize reward gained per unit of time.
Personally, I'm a completionist and a min/maxer at heart. If I start doing Hearts and Skill Point challenges in a zone, I will complete that zone.
Because they are on the map and because they are optional, to me, means I have to do them. I know that is not logical, but I can't create that disconnect - many people are the same.
GW2 would have / could have been a lot more revolutionary if they didn't put the Hearts in, didn't mark the SP challenges and PoI's and Vistas, and instead spent that dev time on more (and more varied/linked) events.
Yes, I know you can turn off the items on the map and "ignore" the completion aspect of a map - but that's like asking an accountant to do billing without a calculator.
All I can say is if you want quests, go play wow or the many wow clones there are out there, I am glad gw2 did something diffrent for a change, well its still quests but just done in a more freeform way. Never was a fan of quests in wow, get quest run for 10-15 mins to kill 5 mobs, then go all the way back, mind you this doesn't happen nearly as much after the cataclysm prepare patch, but it still happens once in a while.
Me? I am waiting for vanguard to go f2p, heard its one of the better mmo's out there now a days. Especally after they started working on it again. I myself am tired of wow and all the clones its created, The whole quest hub shit is really old now and they need to find a new way to do it (like gw2 did). I don't own gw2, only played in beta, but even then it was one of the more enjoyable times I have had in a mmorpg. Thinking of picking gw2 up on the 19th actually come to think of it.
Being a pessimist is a win-win pattern of thinking. If you're a pessimist (I'll admit that I am!) you're either:
A. Proven right (if something bad happens)
or
B. Pleasantly surprised (if something good happens)
Because GW2 DE's are kill xo fo x for z too....they just dont have someone asking you to do that...instead 20 of x come in waves while you kill them...
I was talking about the hearts, not the DEs.
The DEs are meant to bring people together and cooperate. It's plain obvious that this usually means there's something to kill.
I slowly but surely get the impression that you guys are never content with anything. They could wipe your behinds with chinese silk and offer you caviar from the moon and you'd complain about how you're not allowed to craft your own paper and start your own space mission.
Sandbox my ass guys, just don't play a themepark then. Just - Don't. You friggin know what you'll get, just - don't - play.
GW2 would have / could have been a lot more revolutionary if they didn't put the Hearts in, didn't mark the SP challenges and PoI's and Vistas, and instead spent that dev time on more (and more varied/linked) events.
During a long time during development, there were no hearts. They added them to satisfy the WoW generation.
Respect, walk, what did you say? Respect, walk Are you talkin' to me? Are you talkin' to me? - PANTERA at HELLFEST 2023
GW2 would have / could have been a lot more revolutionary if they didn't put the Hearts in, didn't mark the SP challenges and PoI's and Vistas, and instead spent that dev time on more (and more varied/linked) events.
During a long time during development, there were no hearts. They added them to satisfy the WoW generation.
Protip: Disable all of the notices/icons on your map.
Originally posted by BadSpock I have as much nostolgia for aspects of UO and SWG as the next vet -
But yeah they were very grind heavy.
All quests and quests hubs are is a disguise for the grind - we all know that.
You can level up 1-max level in WoW or Rift or whatever without doing a single quest - it might suck a bit, might suck less in Rift cause of Rifts, but it can (and has) been done.
You can level up 1-80 in GW2 without completing a single Heart quest - except maybe by accident cause of a near by event - but as with all gaming "If you build it they will come" and they will also find the most efficient means to maximize reward gained per unit of time.
Personally, I'm a completionist and a min/maxer at heart. If I start doing Hearts and Skill Point challenges in a zone, I will complete that zone.
Because they are on the map and because they are optional, to me, means I have to do them. I know that is not logical, but I can't create that disconnect - many people are the same.
GW2 would have / could have been a lot more revolutionary if they didn't put the Hearts in, didn't mark the SP challenges and PoI's and Vistas, and instead spent that dev time on more (and more varied/linked) events.
Yes, I know you can turn off the items on the map and "ignore" the completion aspect of a map - but that's like asking an accountant to do billing without a calculator.
I agree. These old games were terribly grindy. And we all hated those grinds. Jedi, IMO, was the worst grind ever introduced into an MMO. But the reward was equivalent. Today, we get the same level of rewards without the work invested. I'll bet you still remember the names of your gear in WoW TBC. I had a Hunter. Shortly after reaching 70, I wore the Felstalker crafted set that I upgraded to Ebon Netherscale. I had the Don Santos Rifle and the Legacy Axe. (I didn't have to look that stuff up) In Wrath, I retired the hunter and leveled a DK and I was in a hardcore Raid guild at the beginning of Wrath and had gotten the Tiered armor but I'll be damned if I remember what it was called.
I don't know what the solution to the traditional grind is, but I definitely think, giving the players bigger rewards for less investment has produced this generic, assembly line, mentality we have with our MMOs today. Ultimately, this is why I believe GW2 will settle into a niche PVP game.
I would rather gouge my eyes with a rusty spork then play another quest based MMO. I thank God every day that a company had the balls to develop and release an MMO that went away from the WoW model. IMO hub based quest games are dead to me. TSW style questing is as close to the WOW model as I'll ever get. Every time I see a WoW screenshot and the entire right side of the screen covered in quest text it just makes my skin crawl and head asplode.
Playing: GW2 Waiting on: TESO Next Flop: Planetside 2 Best MMO of all time: Asheron's Call - The first company to recreate AC will be the next greatest MMO.
GW2 would have / could have been a lot more revolutionary if they didn't put the Hearts in, didn't mark the SP challenges and PoI's and Vistas, and instead spent that dev time on more (and more varied/linked) events.
During a long time during development, there were no hearts. They added them to satisfy the WoW generation.
Protip: Disable all of the notices/icons on your map.
I pour vinegar in my eyes and play by sound alone. Very challenging! When I go epic mode I use a couple black cat firecrackers in each ear. Leveling is slower but I'm more satisfied with the effort.
Death is nothing to us, since when we are, Death has not come, and when death has come, we are not.
I know you'll laugh or flame... but really. You know, if you had asked me 6 weeks ago, I would have taken ANY bet, that I would NEVER say that. But I actually miss quests. I mean, you know, those with an NPC standing somewhere with a ? over the head.
I so welcomed the change of GW2 at first. But after played up to level 77, I simply can not take another "event". I just can't! You see, in a quest, there is a real story I read. It has a sort of purpose, and once done it gives me the illusion, I have accomplished something. In games like LOTRO or SWTOR that worked even relatively well, in LOTRO because often the stuff goes on around you in the story-quests and in SWTOR because of the story of course.
But here... sure there is also a sort of "story". But in reality, it is just a one-liner, and bar that is quickly filled or emptied and I mindlessly kill stuff or gather stuff. And moments later the event restarts all over again. I think that is really the worst of it. I know I fought the Centaurs off so many times in Ascalon refugee city (not sure of the English name), and 5 minutes later it all starts over. At least in my quests in other MMOs, I had SOME illusion of a finish, especially I must say in the phased WOW quests. When I freed the Redrige Mountain area after going through that story, it WAS free! I had permanently changed it. THAT was great! I loved that. It was neither a close instance as in LOTRO or SWTOR, but not an always returning 5 minute change as in GW2. To this day I still think, despite some issues, the phasing system of WOW plus normal quests remains the best solution. I am just not returning, because it's too old for me now.
Never thought I'd say that. But at least for me this "everything is an always circling event" simply doesn't catch me. Nothing against the game, just from my experience.
Fifth sign of the apocolypse: I agree with (and understand!) Elikal. Only difference: it didnt' take me 77 levels to get to this point.
But you know what, Elikal? We're obviously playing it wrong.
Ah, the you're playing it wrong reverse slam. Well, you *are* playing it wrong. The thing is there are effectively endless options for game play that is specifically centered around gear treadmills, quest hubs, and very linear driven mechanics. Why would you play a game that was billed from the start as specifically not centering on those features and then complain about it as if it is the fault of the game design.
What always gets me about people like you and the OP is that you bitch about something and then reference a game that supposedly does it right or solves your problem, but then have an excuse as to why you can't play what is out there. Elikal references how WoW does it right with phasing, but then goes on to say he can't go back there because it's too old. It's the same with people who bitch about sandboxes but won't play the many sandbox options out there becacuse there is always this one thing....
So now we're in a place where we (as an mmo community) ask for innovation and complain about the stale and then are offered something with a slightly different twist and balk at the unfamiliarity of it. We're a bi-polar group that has made an awful bed we must now lie in.
That's the problem. There is always this one thing... How about pick a game and enjoy it for what it offers? Nothing wrong with pointing out criticisms, but the habitual returning and pointing out of why it's still not working is just insane. The last several threads he started about his disjoint desires and lack of satisfaction already made it perfectly clear.
See, here's the thing, as I've said before: the hearts bug me. I go to an area and my quest log pops up and says do "this". I don't have any frame of refference for why I'm doing "this".
The last time I brought this up, I was chided for not going and talking to the heart guys to see what was going on. Well, that's fine. So in order for me, a lore-nerd, to experience what I want from this game, I need to play it the same way I play every other themepark. Which is fine as well, I can do that.
But this leads me to believe that GW2 was, in fact, built from the ground up for those who simply want to run from place to place, getting stuff done without trully experiencing the world in which they are in.
I want a mmorpg where people have gone through misery, have gone through school stuff and actually have had sex even. -sagil
I know you'll laugh or flame... but really. You know, if you had asked me 6 weeks ago, I would have taken ANY bet, that I would NEVER say that. But I actually miss quests. I mean, you know, those with an NPC standing somewhere with a ? over the head.
I so welcomed the change of GW2 at first. But after played up to level 77, I simply can not take another "event". I just can't! You see, in a quest, there is a real story I read. It has a sort of purpose, and once done it gives me the illusion, I have accomplished something. In games like LOTRO or SWTOR that worked even relatively well, in LOTRO because often the stuff goes on around you in the story-quests and in SWTOR because of the story of course.
But here... sure there is also a sort of "story". But in reality, it is just a one-liner, and bar that is quickly filled or emptied and I mindlessly kill stuff or gather stuff. And moments later the event restarts all over again. I think that is really the worst of it. I know I fought the Centaurs off so many times in Ascalon refugee city (not sure of the English name), and 5 minutes later it all starts over. At least in my quests in other MMOs, I had SOME illusion of a finish, especially I must say in the phased WOW quests. When I freed the Redrige Mountain area after going through that story, it WAS free! I had permanently changed it. THAT was great! I loved that. It was neither a close instance as in LOTRO or SWTOR, but not an always returning 5 minute change as in GW2. To this day I still think, despite some issues, the phasing system of WOW plus normal quests remains the best solution. I am just not returning, because it's too old for me now.
Never thought I'd say that. But at least for me this "everything is an always circling event" simply doesn't catch me. Nothing against the game, just from my experience.
Fifth sign of the apocolypse: I agree with (and understand!) Elikal. Only difference: it didnt' take me 77 levels to get to this point.
But you know what, Elikal? We're obviously playing it wrong.
Ah, the you're playing it wrong reverse slam. Well, you *are* playing it wrong. The thing is there are effectively endless options for game play that is specifically centered around gear treadmills, quest hubs, and very linear driven mechanics. Why would you play a game that was billed from the start as specifically not centering on those features and then complain about it as if it is the fault of the game design.
What always gets me about people like you and the OP is that you bitch about something and then reference a game that supposedly does it right or solves your problem, but then have an excuse as to why you can't play what is out there. Elikal references how WoW does it right with phasing, but then goes on to say he can't go back there because it's too old. It's the same with people who bitch about sandboxes but won't play the many sandbox options out there becacuse there is always this one thing....
So now we're in a place where we (as an mmo community) ask for innovation and complain about the stale and then are offered something with a slightly different twist and balk at the unfamiliarity of it. We're a bi-polar group that has made an awful bed we must now lie in.
That's the problem. There is always this one thing... How about pick a game and enjoy it for what it offers? Nothing wrong with pointing out criticisms, but the habitual returning and pointing out of why it's still not working is just insane. The last several threads he started about his disjoint desires and lack of satisfaction already made it perfectly clear.
See, here's the thing, as I've said before: the hearts bug me. I go to an area and my quest log pops up and says do "this". I don't have any frame of refference for why I'm doing "this".
The last time I brought this up, I was chided for not going and talking to the heart guys to see what was going on. Well, that's fine. So in order for me, a lore-nerd, to experience what I want from this game, I need to play it the same way I play every other themepark. Which is fine as well, I can do that.
But this leads me to believe that GW2 was, in fact, built from the ground up for those who simply want to run from place to place, getting stuff done without trully experiencing the world in which they are in.
Well I know it's your opinion that you need the prose backstory to experience the world, but just wanted to share my opinion, that I actually feel like this kind of story delivery actually detracts from the world sometimes.
For example, in a game like Minecraft, I never feel like I'm not experiencing the world just because I don't have some dude telling me that he needs 7 gnoll livers to save his daughter. And in Skyrim, while those quests do exist, I find most of them incredibly dull and cliche. There are SOME really cool ones, but they seem to be few and far between.
I mostly feel like I experience the world through having the freedom to explore a world that is detailed and rich. Story can be part of it, but I feel like scripted quests are way overdone in most RPGs.
Hearts could have worked, but as much as people will hate to admit it, anet was lazy with them. A single bar to fill with a few possible activities all contributing to it, and that's it? They could have had several stages for each heart, where a story develops in a single heart as you progress through it's stages, without changing the general concept.
See, here's the thing, as I've said before: the hearts bug me. I go to an area and my quest log pops up and says do "this". I don't have any frame of refference for why I'm doing "this".
The last time I brought this up, I was chided for not going and talking to the heart guys to see what was going on. Well, that's fine. So in order for me, a lore-nerd, to experience what I want from this game, I need to play it the same way I play every other themepark. Which is fine as well, I can do that.
But this leads me to believe that GW2 was, in fact, built from the ground up for those who simply want to run from place to place, getting stuff done without trully experiencing the world in which they are in.
regarding experiencing the world (for lore)
there is plenty of scattered GW1 lore that is *not* quest related
You want your quests back? They are still there! Go to the other games and get them, simple as that. Don't try to get our features that others enjoy taken away.
I know you'll laugh or flame... but really. You know, if you had asked me 6 weeks ago, I would have taken ANY bet, that I would NEVER say that. But I actually miss quests. I mean, you know, those with an NPC standing somewhere with a ? over the head.
I so welcomed the change of GW2 at first. But after played up to level 77, I simply can not take another "event". I just can't! You see, in a quest, there is a real story I read. It has a sort of purpose, and once done it gives me the illusion, I have accomplished something. In games like LOTRO or SWTOR that worked even relatively well, in LOTRO because often the stuff goes on around you in the story-quests and in SWTOR because of the story of course.
But here... sure there is also a sort of "story". But in reality, it is just a one-liner, and bar that is quickly filled or emptied and I mindlessly kill stuff or gather stuff. And moments later the event restarts all over again. I think that is really the worst of it. I know I fought the Centaurs off so many times in Ascalon refugee city (not sure of the English name), and 5 minutes later it all starts over. At least in my quests in other MMOs, I had SOME illusion of a finish, especially I must say in the phased WOW quests. When I freed the Redrige Mountain area after going through that story, it WAS free! I had permanently changed it. THAT was great! I loved that. It was neither a close instance as in LOTRO or SWTOR, but not an always returning 5 minute change as in GW2. To this day I still think, despite some issues, the phasing system of WOW plus normal quests remains the best solution. I am just not returning, because it's too old for me now.
Never thought I'd say that. But at least for me this "everything is an always circling event" simply doesn't catch me. Nothing against the game, just from my experience.
I understand why you miss quests. In many ways they are comfortable.
However, by getting too comfortable w/ quests to the point where you have to have them is setting yourself up for a big catch 22. One of the big problems MMORPGs are struggling with atm, is that they are constrained by the necessity of quests & story. Questlines & Story elements require developer guided content, which get consumed faster & faster with each new game. Simple put, it's impossible to constantly churn out more and more content than the game before (at launch) and still remain profitable. We've already seen the tipping point of that trend, which is why developers are starting to get away from it.
I understand the appeal of quests, but understand that they are one of the largest factors to what is holding back MMORPGs to this day.
I couldn't agree with you more OP. I got to level 44 and just quit. I'm sick and tired of these pointless events that mean nothing as they'll just simply start again in another 5-10 minutes. You can only guide people or kill things so much before it just is not fun.
With that said, I think the PvE aspect was a bomb. I like the story line, but i'm not going to keep grinding 4 levels out just to get to play 10 minutes of my story then having to grind another 4 levels out through boring events or something else boring.
Originally posted by fixif In it's core all of those quests are exactly the same. Be that WoW, GW2 or Rift. GW2 didn't revolutionise anything. Except a ? and ! you have something else. Does that matter? Nope. Quests are same old, same old. Nothing new.
you can simplify it down to that but would be ignoring:- no quest log to maintainhaving to delete outdated quests you outleveled or had no room for in Questlog
Your "Questlog" is still there. If one does not finish said quest and leaves the area, your quest is still there. It is just not shown when you are not in the area for that quest. Do a few things for the quest, leave the area, and then come back. Your quest pops up again, right where you left off. No, you don't have to manage your "questlog" anymore, it is done for you. I will grant that quests never become "outleveled", though, thanks to down-leveling.
Originally posted by Nadia - no npc to "play fetch" tono redundant traveling back to npc to get experience for a quest you already finished
Yet every quest NPC becomes a "store" after said quest is done, so you go and talk to them anyway to see what they offer. Sometimes, the quest NPC has dialogue that continues into a DE. Aren't you traveling back to the NPC anyway? Sure, you don't have to, but many times it is a good idea to, just to check and make sure
- Al
Personally the only modern MMORPG trend that annoys me is the idea that MMOs need to be designed in a way to attract people who don't actually like MMOs. Which to me makes about as much sense as someone trying to figure out a way to get vegetarians to eat at their steakhouse. - FARGIN_WAR
I agree with the OP, but I also agree with others stating that if you want quests, then go play games with quests. I think it's awesome that games try to do things a little differently. Not all the differences will be amazing successes, but at least some developers are trying.
Originally posted by Zylaxx I would rather gouge my eyes with a rusty spork then play another quest based MMO. I thank God every day that a company had the balls to develop and release an MMO that went away from the WoW model. IMO hub based quest games are dead to me. TSW style questing is as close to the WOW model as I'll ever get. Every time I see a WoW screenshot and the entire right side of the screen covered in quest text it just makes my skin crawl and head asplode.
Here is the fork /fork
start diggin. So glad the facade has fooled you, didnt fool many others. GW2 IS a quest based game...(I know you can level by crafting....I can also cut a steak up with a plastic spork, but would I?)
It has a sort of purpose, and once done it gives me the illusion, I have accomplished something.
Maybe if you shut your eyes really hard it does...
You're saying you'd rather have text tell you "ya done good" rather than actually see the result of what you did change the game world?
You'd rather have static, overdone, unimmersive quests, than a living game world?
I understand that in the heat of the action you don't get the full story but, after the 20th "kill 10 wolves" quest in LotRO, I stopped caring about the story entirely, because it was always BS.
Quest based leveling, along with instances, were the two worst things to happen to MMOs. If I could I'd get rid of the heart quests too.
I agree...I like the dynamic events and the way the world changes depending on the outcome. I like exploring and coming across events and most do have a story if you stick with the event npc all the way to the end.
Originally posted by Zylaxx I would rather gouge my eyes with a rusty spork then play another quest based MMO. I thank God every day that a company had the balls to develop and release an MMO that went away from the WoW model. IMO hub based quest games are dead to me. TSW style questing is as close to the WOW model as I'll ever get. Every time I see a WoW screenshot and the entire right side of the screen covered in quest text it just makes my skin crawl and head asplode.
Here is the fork /fork
start diggin. So glad the facade has fooled you, didnt fool many others. GW2 IS a quest based game...(I know you can level by crafting....I can also cut a steak up with a plastic spork, but would I?)
Guy in our guild just dinged 80. He went from 2 to 80 purely in WvW. There's a large variety of ways to gain exp and level... from renown hearts (quest-like structures), dynamic events, exploring, WvW, crafting, etc.
Originally posted by Zylaxx I would rather gouge my eyes with a rusty spork then play another quest based MMO. I thank God every day that a company had the balls to develop and release an MMO that went away from the WoW model. IMO hub based quest games are dead to me. TSW style questing is as close to the WOW model as I'll ever get. Every time I see a WoW screenshot and the entire right side of the screen covered in quest text it just makes my skin crawl and head asplode.
Here is the fork /fork
start diggin. So glad the facade has fooled you, didnt fool many others. GW2 IS a quest based game...(I know you can level by crafting....I can also cut a steak up with a plastic spork, but would I?)
The fork in the eye was an old failcom trick ...see if TSW fanbois actually posted in their own forms they might generate some intrest in that game ...as it now stands it appears that it's more fun to lurk in the GW2 forms than to play TSW
Comments
I have as much nostolgia for aspects of UO and SWG as the next vet -
But yeah they were very grind heavy.
All quests and quests hubs are is a disguise for the grind - we all know that.
You can level up 1-max level in WoW or Rift or whatever without doing a single quest - it might suck a bit, might suck less in Rift cause of Rifts, but it can (and has) been done.
You can level up 1-80 in GW2 without completing a single Heart quest - except maybe by accident cause of a near by event - but as with all gaming "If you build it they will come" and they will also find the most efficient means to maximize reward gained per unit of time.
Personally, I'm a completionist and a min/maxer at heart. If I start doing Hearts and Skill Point challenges in a zone, I will complete that zone.
Because they are on the map and because they are optional, to me, means I have to do them. I know that is not logical, but I can't create that disconnect - many people are the same.
GW2 would have / could have been a lot more revolutionary if they didn't put the Hearts in, didn't mark the SP challenges and PoI's and Vistas, and instead spent that dev time on more (and more varied/linked) events.
Yes, I know you can turn off the items on the map and "ignore" the completion aspect of a map - but that's like asking an accountant to do billing without a calculator.
All I can say is if you want quests, go play wow or the many wow clones there are out there, I am glad gw2 did something diffrent for a change, well its still quests but just done in a more freeform way. Never was a fan of quests in wow, get quest run for 10-15 mins to kill 5 mobs, then go all the way back, mind you this doesn't happen nearly as much after the cataclysm prepare patch, but it still happens once in a while.
Me? I am waiting for vanguard to go f2p, heard its one of the better mmo's out there now a days. Especally after they started working on it again. I myself am tired of wow and all the clones its created, The whole quest hub shit is really old now and they need to find a new way to do it (like gw2 did). I don't own gw2, only played in beta, but even then it was one of the more enjoyable times I have had in a mmorpg. Thinking of picking gw2 up on the 19th actually come to think of it.
Being a pessimist is a win-win pattern of thinking. If you're a pessimist (I'll admit that I am!) you're either:
A. Proven right (if something bad happens)
or
B. Pleasantly surprised (if something good happens)
Either way, you can't lose! Try it out sometime!
I was talking about the hearts, not the DEs.
The DEs are meant to bring people together and cooperate. It's plain obvious that this usually means there's something to kill.
I slowly but surely get the impression that you guys are never content with anything. They could wipe your behinds with chinese silk and offer you caviar from the moon and you'd complain about how you're not allowed to craft your own paper and start your own space mission.
Sandbox my ass guys, just don't play a themepark then. Just - Don't. You friggin know what you'll get, just - don't - play.
M
During a long time during development, there were no hearts. They added them to satisfy the WoW generation.
Respect, walk
Are you talkin' to me? Are you talkin' to me?
- PANTERA at HELLFEST 2023
Protip: Disable all of the notices/icons on your map.
I agree. These old games were terribly grindy. And we all hated those grinds. Jedi, IMO, was the worst grind ever introduced into an MMO. But the reward was equivalent. Today, we get the same level of rewards without the work invested. I'll bet you still remember the names of your gear in WoW TBC. I had a Hunter. Shortly after reaching 70, I wore the Felstalker crafted set that I upgraded to Ebon Netherscale. I had the Don Santos Rifle and the Legacy Axe. (I didn't have to look that stuff up) In Wrath, I retired the hunter and leveled a DK and I was in a hardcore Raid guild at the beginning of Wrath and had gotten the Tiered armor but I'll be damned if I remember what it was called.
I don't know what the solution to the traditional grind is, but I definitely think, giving the players bigger rewards for less investment has produced this generic, assembly line, mentality we have with our MMOs today. Ultimately, this is why I believe GW2 will settle into a niche PVP game.
Everything you need to know about Elder Scrolls Online
Playing: GW2
Waiting on: TESO
Next Flop: Planetside 2
Best MMO of all time: Asheron's Call - The first company to recreate AC will be the next greatest MMO.
I pour vinegar in my eyes and play by sound alone. Very challenging! When I go epic mode I use a couple black cat firecrackers in each ear. Leveling is slower but I'm more satisfied with the effort.
Death is nothing to us, since when we are, Death has not come, and when death has come, we are not.
See, here's the thing, as I've said before: the hearts bug me. I go to an area and my quest log pops up and says do "this". I don't have any frame of refference for why I'm doing "this".
The last time I brought this up, I was chided for not going and talking to the heart guys to see what was going on. Well, that's fine. So in order for me, a lore-nerd, to experience what I want from this game, I need to play it the same way I play every other themepark. Which is fine as well, I can do that.
But this leads me to believe that GW2 was, in fact, built from the ground up for those who simply want to run from place to place, getting stuff done without trully experiencing the world in which they are in.
I want a mmorpg where people have gone through misery, have gone through school stuff and actually have had sex even. -sagil
Well I know it's your opinion that you need the prose backstory to experience the world, but just wanted to share my opinion, that I actually feel like this kind of story delivery actually detracts from the world sometimes.
For example, in a game like Minecraft, I never feel like I'm not experiencing the world just because I don't have some dude telling me that he needs 7 gnoll livers to save his daughter. And in Skyrim, while those quests do exist, I find most of them incredibly dull and cliche. There are SOME really cool ones, but they seem to be few and far between.
I mostly feel like I experience the world through having the freedom to explore a world that is detailed and rich. Story can be part of it, but I feel like scripted quests are way overdone in most RPGs.
Are you team Azeroth, team Tyria, or team Jacob?
regarding experiencing the world (for lore)
there is plenty of scattered GW1 lore that is *not* quest related
https://forum-en.guildwars2.com/forum/game/lore/What-GW1-Lore-have-you-spotted
unfortunately it may be overlooked by players if they dont have background knowledge of the original guildwars
EQ2 fan sites
Plenty of mmo have sucky quests systems, GW2 aint one of them and aint becominig one of them.
That is entirely subjective
I understand why you miss quests. In many ways they are comfortable.
However, by getting too comfortable w/ quests to the point where you have to have them is setting yourself up for a big catch 22. One of the big problems MMORPGs are struggling with atm, is that they are constrained by the necessity of quests & story. Questlines & Story elements require developer guided content, which get consumed faster & faster with each new game. Simple put, it's impossible to constantly churn out more and more content than the game before (at launch) and still remain profitable. We've already seen the tipping point of that trend, which is why developers are starting to get away from it.
I understand the appeal of quests, but understand that they are one of the largest factors to what is holding back MMORPGs to this day.
I couldn't agree with you more OP. I got to level 44 and just quit. I'm sick and tired of these pointless events that mean nothing as they'll just simply start again in another 5-10 minutes. You can only guide people or kill things so much before it just is not fun.
With that said, I think the PvE aspect was a bomb. I like the story line, but i'm not going to keep grinding 4 levels out just to get to play 10 minutes of my story then having to grind another 4 levels out through boring events or something else boring.
Yet every quest NPC becomes a "store" after said quest is done, so you go and talk to them anyway to see what they offer. Sometimes, the quest NPC has dialogue that continues into a DE. Aren't you traveling back to the NPC anyway? Sure, you don't have to, but many times it is a good idea to, just to check and make sure
- Al
Personally the only modern MMORPG trend that annoys me is the idea that MMOs need to be designed in a way to attract people who don't actually like MMOs. Which to me makes about as much sense as someone trying to figure out a way to get vegetarians to eat at their steakhouse.- FARGIN_WAR
Proud MMORPG.com member since March 2004! Make PvE GREAT Again!
I agree with the OP, but I also agree with others stating that if you want quests, then go play games with quests. I think it's awesome that games try to do things a little differently. Not all the differences will be amazing successes, but at least some developers are trying.
Here is the fork /fork
start diggin. So glad the facade has fooled you, didnt fool many others. GW2 IS a quest based game...(I know you can level by crafting....I can also cut a steak up with a plastic spork, but would I?)
I agree...I like the dynamic events and the way the world changes depending on the outcome. I like exploring and coming across events and most do have a story if you stick with the event npc all the way to the end.
Guy in our guild just dinged 80. He went from 2 to 80 purely in WvW. There's a large variety of ways to gain exp and level... from renown hearts (quest-like structures), dynamic events, exploring, WvW, crafting, etc.
Oderint, dum metuant.
The fork in the eye was an old failcom trick ...see if TSW fanbois actually posted in their own forms they might generate some intrest in that game ...as it now stands it appears that it's more fun to lurk in the GW2 forms than to play TSW