Well I disagree with the OP...at this point I HATE quest hubs. Like seriously, seriously, HATE them. In Rift, I basically did nothing for PvP to level because I couldn't stomach quest hubs...and I only lasted until level 18 in SWTOR for the same reason. I also tried getting back into WoW about 10 months ago, but didn't get past level 8 because I couldn't stand the quest hubs.
Every time I play a quest hub game I feel like I am getting groceries for a bunch of people.
"Yes, I would like 10 gnoll heads, 20 gnolls killed, and 1 shaman's totem"
"Yes, please bring me 5 bat tongues, 10 newt livers, and a gallon of milk"
Yes dear.
To me, this is like the most tedious and boring thing you can do in a game. There is zero freedom, you just get directions and go to them.
So I'm really happy that there is a game for folks like me that has ZERO quest hubs. I'm also happy that there are games for people that like quest hubs, like MoP .
Uhhh GW2 has those things. Events And hearts are quests in different wrappers. They are the same mind numbingly boring tasks repeated over and over. Sure things play out in realtime a little more, but in the end it is really the same.
I'm not talking about the fact that you still wind up doing those tasks in GW2, I actually never thought they were the problem. The problem is that those tasks have been presented in a way that makes them feel like an errand. You literally go to a place where a bunch of quest npcs are sitting around get a specific errand list from each, go out, do your errands, and then return to get more errands.
THAT is what sucks. And GW2 does not have that.
I'll admit Rift is pretty bad when it comes to turining in quests. "OMFG, you are giving me yet ANOTHER quest?" Some of those hubs did feel endless and that, I think was more from Rift's lack of real estate. But put that aside, GW2 still has the basic concept. If you go into WoW, Take the NPCs that are in a Hub and move them to the actual location of the quest, then take the need to interact with the NPC but make it so that the quest just auto accepts by you being in the area. Make the quest spawn some escorts or some kind of defend a camp of some sort and well, you have something very similar to GW2. Aside from the need to click on people, It's not that much of a difference.
And as far as Hearts go.......well to quote you "I HATE quest hubs. Like seriously, seriously, HATE them." LOL. I mean really? You come out of your personal story as the "Hero of Shaemor" and are highly regarded as the savior or Tyria. and oh btw, Please go collect apples. Please gather my escaped livestock, please go water my platns. Please go stomp on pest's nests. It's over the top how exaggerated tehy pile on the accolades in the personal story only to be smacked in the face with "FarmhandWars2" when you are done. And if I don't want to do those, I can just run around the map looking for orange circles.
I have to fully agree with the OP. The DE's affect and change NOTHING. Meanwhile the phased quests in WoW, which I cannot stand for wholely other reasons, actually changed the world permanantly.
I ran quests for the Otter folk, and as each finished things changed around the city. New buildings appeared, torches I lit stayed lit, a memorial statue appeared. Laters a village grew up hut by hut, vendors appeared, as I made the area safer. True, only I could see these changes, but I COULD see them.
In GW2 I save the caravan, but the merchant will then mysteriously appear back at the start and need to be rescued again, again and again and again...
I hate WoW and will never go back, but anyone that seems to think the Hearts in GW2 are any different at all is deluding themselves. And as to the DE's changing the world? LOL, for all of 5-10 minutes until everything resets and starts again.
OP what are you talking about? Go talk to the NPC if you want, oh and find randomly NAMED NPC's roaming around the world, they also have quests. I got tired of running to the next quest giver, running off to gather or kill for him/her, running back, getting another quest off him/her, rinse and repeating, and get a freaking cookie and 50 copper at the end and a full inventory with no vendor nearby to dump on. Heart quests are a good step in the right direction for the MMO design.
To be completely honest, I wouldn't mind a mix of hearts, de's and ... traditional quests. Once my personal story was finished I felt like I could have used some more direction.
If in 1982 we played with the current mentality, we would have burned down all the pac man games since the red ghost was clearly OP. Instead we just got better at the game.
I never like questchains and massive pve quests etc. that much... being able to run around looking at stuff and get events happening at the same time.. for me thats very nice.
Can understand people hating the lack of direction though
Well I disagree with the OP...at this point I HATE quest hubs. Like seriously, seriously, HATE them. In Rift, I basically did nothing for PvP to level because I couldn't stomach quest hubs...and I only lasted until level 18 in SWTOR for the same reason. I also tried getting back into WoW about 10 months ago, but didn't get past level 8 because I couldn't stand the quest hubs.
Every time I play a quest hub game I feel like I am getting groceries for a bunch of people.
"Yes, I would like 10 gnoll heads, 20 gnolls killed, and 1 shaman's totem"
"Yes, please bring me 5 bat tongues, 10 newt livers, and a gallon of milk"
Yes dear.
To me, this is like the most tedious and boring thing you can do in a game. There is zero freedom, you just get directions and go to them.
So I'm really happy that there is a game for folks like me that has ZERO quest hubs. I'm also happy that there are games for people that like quest hubs, like MoP .
Uhhh GW2 has those things. Events And hearts are quests in different wrappers. They are the same mind numbingly boring tasks repeated over and over. Sure things play out in realtime a little more, but in the end it is really the same.
I'm not talking about the fact that you still wind up doing those tasks in GW2, I actually never thought they were the problem. The problem is that those tasks have been presented in a way that makes them feel like an errand. You literally go to a place where a bunch of quest npcs are sitting around get a specific errand list from each, go out, do your errands, and then return to get more errands.
THAT is what sucks. And GW2 does not have that.
Not only that, in GW2 the quest givers are usually asking for help, and will come along and contribute to the quest, rather than sitting there stationary being lazy while you do all the work.
Pretty much all the escort DEs are triggered by someone talking to a NPC, they dont just start running off by themselves and hoping that they will get protected. Other DEs are triggered by invasions, which really dont need an invitation for you to help if you see a camp getting smashed by enemies.
Its all very organic and natural in how events happen. For instance I encountered a researcher who wanted some of the undead body parts from a swamp, so I went off to go get some for him. After handing him a bunch he then says thanks and walks back to his research lab, he didnt ask me to follow but out of curiousity I did, next thing I get treated to a humerous chat between the lead researcher and his crewe as they realise the body parts are reattaching themselves to form a giant undead monstrosity, luckily I was there to help defend them.
The quests are there, they have just been replaced by a more natural way of presenting them, rather than a big obnoxious ! or ? on someones head.
Well I disagree with the OP...at this point I HATE quest hubs. Like seriously, seriously, HATE them. In Rift, I basically did nothing for PvP to level because I couldn't stomach quest hubs...and I only lasted until level 18 in SWTOR for the same reason. I also tried getting back into WoW about 10 months ago, but didn't get past level 8 because I couldn't stand the quest hubs.
Every time I play a quest hub game I feel like I am getting groceries for a bunch of people.
"Yes, I would like 10 gnoll heads, 20 gnolls killed, and 1 shaman's totem"
"Yes, please bring me 5 bat tongues, 10 newt livers, and a gallon of milk"
Yes dear.
To me, this is like the most tedious and boring thing you can do in a game. There is zero freedom, you just get directions and go to them.
So I'm really happy that there is a game for folks like me that has ZERO quest hubs. I'm also happy that there are games for people that like quest hubs, like MoP .
Uhhh GW2 has those things. Events And hearts are quests in different wrappers. They are the same mind numbingly boring tasks repeated over and over. Sure things play out in realtime a little more, but in the end it is really the same.
I'm not talking about the fact that you still wind up doing those tasks in GW2, I actually never thought they were the problem. The problem is that those tasks have been presented in a way that makes them feel like an errand. You literally go to a place where a bunch of quest npcs are sitting around get a specific errand list from each, go out, do your errands, and then return to get more errands.
THAT is what sucks. And GW2 does not have that.
I'll admit Rift is pretty bad when it comes to turining in quests. "OMFG, you are giving me yet ANOTHER quest?" Some of those hubs did feel endless and that, I think was more from Rift's lack of real estate. But put that aside, GW2 still has the basic concept. If you go into WoW, Take the NPCs that are in a Hub and move them to the actual location of the quest, then take the need to interact with the NPC but make it so that the quest just auto accepts by you being in the area. Make the quest spawn some escorts or some kind of defend a camp of some sort and well, you have something very similar to GW2. Aside from the need to click on people, It's not that much of a difference.
And as far as Hearts go.......well to quote you "I HATE quest hubs. Like seriously, seriously, HATE them." LOL. I mean really? You come out of your personal story as the "Hero of Shaemor" and are highly regarded as the savior or Tyria. and oh btw, Please go collect apples. Please gather my escaped livestock, please go water my platns. Please go stomp on pest's nests. It's over the top how exaggerated tehy pile on the accolades in the personal story only to be smacked in the face with "FarmhandWars2" when you are done. And if I don't want to do those, I can just run around the map looking for orange circles.
First, hearts are widely considered to be the one part of GW2 that resembles traditional questing. But I'm sure you can see how even they somewhat alleviate the the grocery list concept Creslin described by frequently allowing you the freedom to complete them in a variety of ways.
Events, on the other hand, have none of that grocery list feel whatsoever. The on-the-fly presentation of hopping into the action of whatever is going on in the world whether or you choose to participate can feel much more immersive, as does not being given a definitive number objective for the event like "kill 10 of these then you're done." The event ends when the town has been saved, etc.
The most important point of all though is that in playing just this one PvE aspect of GW2, participating in the "stuff" the zones of Tyria have to offer, you are not asked to repeat any one task to the point of redundancy. By mixing up the heart quests with events with mini platforming games with rewarding exploration all in pursuit of map completion (the hook for progression oriented players), it never feels like you're being given a grocery list over and over again. And that makes all the difference to many players.
There are certainly pros and cons to both quest and event based systems, but the grocery list feel is definitely a con for quests while the lackthereof is definitely a pro for events.
I'll agree that there's a tremendous disconnect between the personal story and the actual world--even in more ways than you described--but that's a completely separate point.
Well I disagree with the OP...at this point I HATE quest hubs. Like seriously, seriously, HATE them. In Rift, I basically did nothing for PvP to level because I couldn't stomach quest hubs...and I only lasted until level 18 in SWTOR for the same reason. I also tried getting back into WoW about 10 months ago, but didn't get past level 8 because I couldn't stand the quest hubs.
Every time I play a quest hub game I feel like I am getting groceries for a bunch of people.
"Yes, I would like 10 gnoll heads, 20 gnolls killed, and 1 shaman's totem"
"Yes, please bring me 5 bat tongues, 10 newt livers, and a gallon of milk"
Yes dear.
To me, this is like the most tedious and boring thing you can do in a game. There is zero freedom, you just get directions and go to them.
So I'm really happy that there is a game for folks like me that has ZERO quest hubs. I'm also happy that there are games for people that like quest hubs, like MoP .
Uhhh GW2 has those things. Events And hearts are quests in different wrappers. They are the same mind numbingly boring tasks repeated over and over. Sure things play out in realtime a little more, but in the end it is really the same.
I'm not talking about the fact that you still wind up doing those tasks in GW2, I actually never thought they were the problem. The problem is that those tasks have been presented in a way that makes them feel like an errand. You literally go to a place where a bunch of quest npcs are sitting around get a specific errand list from each, go out, do your errands, and then return to get more errands.
THAT is what sucks. And GW2 does not have that.
I'll admit Rift is pretty bad when it comes to turining in quests. "OMFG, you are giving me yet ANOTHER quest?" Some of those hubs did feel endless and that, I think was more from Rift's lack of real estate. But put that aside, GW2 still has the basic concept. If you go into WoW, Take the NPCs that are in a Hub and move them to the actual location of the quest, then take the need to interact with the NPC but make it so that the quest just auto accepts by you being in the area. Make the quest spawn some escorts or some kind of defend a camp of some sort and well, you have something very similar to GW2. Aside from the need to click on people, It's not that much of a difference.
And as far as Hearts go.......well to quote you "I HATE quest hubs. Like seriously, seriously, HATE them." LOL. I mean really? You come out of your personal story as the "Hero of Shaemor" and are highly regarded as the savior or Tyria. and oh btw, Please go collect apples. Please gather my escaped livestock, please go water my platns. Please go stomp on pest's nests. It's over the top how exaggerated tehy pile on the accolades in the personal story only to be smacked in the face with "FarmhandWars2" when you are done. And if I don't want to do those, I can just run around the map looking for orange circles.
First, hearts are widely considered to be the one part of GW2 that resembles traditional questing. But I'm sure you can see how even they somewhat alleviate the the grocery list concept Creslin described by frequently allowing you the freedom to complete them in a variety of ways.
Events, on the other hand, have none of that grocery list feel whatsoever. The on-the-fly presentation of hopping into the action of whatever is going on in the world whether or you choose to participate can feel much more immersive, as does not being given a definitive number objective for the event like "kill 10 of these then you're done." The event ends when the town has been saved, etc.
The most important point of all though is that in playing just this one PvE aspect of GW2, participating in the "stuff" the zones of Tyria have to offer, you are not asked to repeat any one task to the point of redundancy. By mixing up the heart quests with events with mini platforming games with rewarding exploration all in pursuit of map completion (the hook for progression oriented players), it never feels like you're being given a grocery list over and over again. And that makes all the difference to many players.
There are certainly pros and cons to both quest and event based systems, but the grocery list feel is definitely a con for quests while the lackthereof is definitely a pro for events.
I'll agree that there's a tremendous disconnect between the personal story and the actual world--even in more ways than you described--but that's a completely separate point.
I am not saying I think the method of DE's suck. Even the concpet of hearts would be fine, assuming the actual tasks assigned were more fitting of an adventurer/hero. That aside, I think that a game can have a place for all these. But with some guidelines. I think there is a place for NPCs who assign quests. But they should not be errand based tasks in nature. I can't stand when an NPC is like 10yds away from some over run camp and says go reduce thier numbers while he just stands there. But yet when you get those truly epic quests that you remember when you think back down the road. Those I think have a place. But also, Hearts and DEs can also be all added in. Certainly ANET brings a lot of good ideas to the table. I just don't think GW2 is the game to deliver them.
Well I disagree with the OP...at this point I HATE quest hubs. Like seriously, seriously, HATE them. In Rift, I basically did nothing for PvP to level because I couldn't stomach quest hubs...and I only lasted until level 18 in SWTOR for the same reason. I also tried getting back into WoW about 10 months ago, but didn't get past level 8 because I couldn't stand the quest hubs.
Every time I play a quest hub game I feel like I am getting groceries for a bunch of people.
"Yes, I would like 10 gnoll heads, 20 gnolls killed, and 1 shaman's totem"
"Yes, please bring me 5 bat tongues, 10 newt livers, and a gallon of milk"
Yes dear.
To me, this is like the most tedious and boring thing you can do in a game. There is zero freedom, you just get directions and go to them.
So I'm really happy that there is a game for folks like me that has ZERO quest hubs. I'm also happy that there are games for people that like quest hubs, like MoP .
Uhhh GW2 has those things. Events And hearts are quests in different wrappers. They are the same mind numbingly boring tasks repeated over and over. Sure things play out in realtime a little more, but in the end it is really the same.
I'm not talking about the fact that you still wind up doing those tasks in GW2, I actually never thought they were the problem. The problem is that those tasks have been presented in a way that makes them feel like an errand. You literally go to a place where a bunch of quest npcs are sitting around get a specific errand list from each, go out, do your errands, and then return to get more errands.
THAT is what sucks. And GW2 does not have that.
but neither does TSW (which, btw was worked on and released prior to GW2.....so what's your point?)
Well I disagree with the OP...at this point I HATE quest hubs. Like seriously, seriously, HATE them. In Rift, I basically did nothing for PvP to level because I couldn't stomach quest hubs...and I only lasted until level 18 in SWTOR for the same reason. I also tried getting back into WoW about 10 months ago, but didn't get past level 8 because I couldn't stand the quest hubs.
Every time I play a quest hub game I feel like I am getting groceries for a bunch of people.
"Yes, I would like 10 gnoll heads, 20 gnolls killed, and 1 shaman's totem"
"Yes, please bring me 5 bat tongues, 10 newt livers, and a gallon of milk"
Yes dear.
To me, this is like the most tedious and boring thing you can do in a game. There is zero freedom, you just get directions and go to them.
So I'm really happy that there is a game for folks like me that has ZERO quest hubs. I'm also happy that there are games for people that like quest hubs, like MoP .
Uhhh GW2 has those things. Events And hearts are quests in different wrappers. They are the same mind numbingly boring tasks repeated over and over. Sure things play out in realtime a little more, but in the end it is really the same.
I'm not talking about the fact that you still wind up doing those tasks in GW2, I actually never thought they were the problem. The problem is that those tasks have been presented in a way that makes them feel like an errand. You literally go to a place where a bunch of quest npcs are sitting around get a specific errand list from each, go out, do your errands, and then return to get more errands.
THAT is what sucks. And GW2 does not have that.
Not only that, in GW2 the quest givers are usually asking for help, and will come along and contribute to the quest, rather than sitting there stationary being lazy while you do all the work.
Pretty much all the escort DEs are triggered by someone talking to a NPC, they dont just start running off by themselves and hoping that they will get protected. Other DEs are triggered by invasions, which really dont need an invitation for you to help if you see a camp getting smashed by enemies.
Its all very organic and natural in how events happen. For instance I encountered a researcher who wanted some of the undead body parts from a swamp, so I went off to go get some for him. After handing him a bunch he then says thanks and walks back to his research lab, he didnt ask me to follow but out of curiousity I did, next thing I get treated to a humerous chat between the lead researcher and his crewe as they realise the body parts are reattaching themselves to form a giant undead monstrosity, luckily I was there to help defend them.
The quests are there, they have just been replaced by a more natural way of presenting them, rather than a big obnoxious ! or ? on someones head.
but what's wrong wtih calling a spade a spade? Regardless of how you "mask" a quest, it's still a quest...It appears that ANET put more effort into masking the quests than making them any good...the only question I have is, why didnt ANET pay attention to how SWTOR masked quests that were the same as other MMO's but worse? ANET kinda doubled down on that idea....
Certainly ANET brings a lot of good ideas to the table. I just don't think GW2 is the game to deliver them.
this! +1,000,000....the issue was that ANET was trying too hard to please the "pop" MMO crowd....not REAL MMORPG players. But, that's what money will do....
I'm level 67 and finding it harder and harder to be happy filling hearts and "grinding" map completion.
Maybe I'm in a wierd level range, but I rarely see more than 1-2 players in the same area as me - which means the DE's are popping a whole lot less often and I feel "stuck" grinding away map completion.
At this point I'm just trying to hit 80, finish my personal story, then hope WvW and dungeon running will revive my fanatical love for GW2.
Or it may just be that I don't have the patience and dedication for MMORPGs anymore.
Rift, TOR, EvE, GW2... after 4-6 weeks I'm just "bleh" and want something else.
Going to be tough for GW2 to compete with my time once Halo 4 comes out.
Halloween event will help break up the game play a bit, and I LOVE that I can come back to GW2 any time I want without having to resub - I'm sure I'll be playing GW2 on and off for a long, long time.
But I'm really, really starting to believe I am just a lost cause and will NEVER find the "one MMORPG to rule them all" that I'll want to play for years and years and years.
I'm level 67 and finding it harder and harder to be happy filling hearts and "grinding" map completion.
Maybe I'm in a wierd level range, but I rarely see more than 1-2 players in the same area as me - which means the DE's are popping a whole lot less often and I feel "stuck" grinding away map completion.
At this point I'm just trying to hit 80, finish my personal story, then hope WvW and dungeon running will revive my fanatical love for GW2.
Or it may just be that I don't have the patience and dedication for MMORPGs anymore.
Rift, TOR, EvE, GW2... after 4-6 weeks I'm just "bleh" and want something else.
Going to be tough for GW2 to compete with my time once Halo 4 comes out.
Halloween event will help break up the game play a bit, and I LOVE that I can come back to GW2 any time I want without having to resub - I'm sure I'll be playing GW2 on and off for a long, long time.
But I'm really, really starting to believe I am just a lost cause and will NEVER find the "one MMORPG to rule them all" that I'll want to play for years and years and years.
That is why it is a very good idea to play the game extensively before you make up your mind and go all defensive on forums.
As far as meeting more players. Even if you are on full server you won't see many till you reach the lvl 80 zone. But there also its hard to get players together for events. Only place you will always find players is in W v W or LA.
I came across total of 5 people from lvl 60 to 80 and i am on the server that is always full. I even transferred out to see if its the same on other servers. People just don't like ORR and i don't blame them.
I'm level 67 and finding it harder and harder to be happy filling hearts and "grinding" map completion.
Maybe I'm in a wierd level range, but I rarely see more than 1-2 players in the same area as me - which means the DE's are popping a whole lot less often and I feel "stuck" grinding away map completion.
At this point I'm just trying to hit 80, finish my personal story, then hope WvW and dungeon running will revive my fanatical love for GW2.
Or it may just be that I don't have the patience and dedication for MMORPGs anymore.
Rift, TOR, EvE, GW2... after 4-6 weeks I'm just "bleh" and want something else.
Going to be tough for GW2 to compete with my time once Halo 4 comes out.
Halloween event will help break up the game play a bit, and I LOVE that I can come back to GW2 any time I want without having to resub - I'm sure I'll be playing GW2 on and off for a long, long time.
But I'm really, really starting to believe I am just a lost cause and will NEVER find the "one MMORPG to rule them all" that I'll want to play for years and years and years.
That is why it is a very good idea to play the game extensively before you make up your mind and go all defensive on forums.
As far as meeting more players. Even if you are on full server you won't see many till you reach the lvl 80 zone. But there also its hard to get players together for events. Only place you will always find players is in W v W or LA.
I came across total of 5 people from lvl 60 to 80 and i am on the server that is always full. I even transferred out to see if its the same on other servers. People just don't like ORR and i don't blame them.
Not true at all. I usually see 20-30 people doing the main DE chains that require a group, and in high level zones (Orr) there are hundreds of players running around doing the big events at the temples of the gods. Not to mention the hundreds that flock to the 3 dragon spawns every hour.
Seriously, hearts are a very very bad way to level. They were only put in late in the beta to cater to the WoW crowd. Follow the DEs.
I literally just logged off after doing the Priestess of Lyssa event with probably 200 hundred players helping out since its a pretty tough event. Took 3 goes to get enough people, but we got the evil thing eventually.
I'm level 67 and finding it harder and harder to be happy filling hearts and "grinding" map completion.
Maybe I'm in a wierd level range, but I rarely see more than 1-2 players in the same area as me - which means the DE's are popping a whole lot less often and I feel "stuck" grinding away map completion.
At this point I'm just trying to hit 80, finish my personal story, then hope WvW and dungeon running will revive my fanatical love for GW2.
Or it may just be that I don't have the patience and dedication for MMORPGs anymore.
Rift, TOR, EvE, GW2... after 4-6 weeks I'm just "bleh" and want something else.
Going to be tough for GW2 to compete with my time once Halo 4 comes out.
Halloween event will help break up the game play a bit, and I LOVE that I can come back to GW2 any time I want without having to resub - I'm sure I'll be playing GW2 on and off for a long, long time.
But I'm really, really starting to believe I am just a lost cause and will NEVER find the "one MMORPG to rule them all" that I'll want to play for years and years and years.
That is why it is a very good idea to play the game extensively before you make up your mind and go all defensive on forums.
As far as meeting more players. Even if you are on full server you won't see many till you reach the lvl 80 zone. But there also its hard to get players together for events. Only place you will always find players is in W v W or LA.
I came across total of 5 people from lvl 60 to 80 and i am on the server that is always full. I even transferred out to see if its the same on other servers. People just don't like ORR and i don't blame them.
Not true at all. I usually see 20-30 people doing the main DE chains that require a group, and in high level zones (Orr) there are hundreds of players running around doing the big events at the temples of the gods.. Not to mention the hundreds that flock to the 3 dragon spawns every hour.
Seriously, hearts are a very very bad way to level. They were only put in late in the beta to cater to the WoW crowd. Follow the DEs.
You don't have to say 'not true at all' because i am sharing my personal experince not some facts. I have transfered to two full servers in last 4 days to check level 80 zones and we couldn't even get 10 people together for events.
People just get their zone completion and dive in W vW to make karma since it is faster way to get the karma gear.
Maybe I'm in a wierd level range, but I rarely see more than 1-2 players in the same area as me - which means the DE's are popping a whole lot less often and I feel "stuck" grinding away map completion.
DE frequency has nothing to do with area population. The events happen regardless of how many players rock up, the difference is that they scale in difficulty unless they specifically say they are a group quest.
A lot of DEs need to be triggered, you also need to pay attention to local NPC chatter to see when an event is about to happen. Also dont leave immediately after an event, often the NPCs will lead on to another DE. Some NPCs will lead you around the entire map before the DE chain is exhausted.
Also look for the zonewide DE indicator to see where it is up to (orange text on your screen), it tells you where the main action is for each zone.
I'm level 67 and finding it harder and harder to be happy filling hearts and "grinding" map completion.
Maybe I'm in a wierd level range, but I rarely see more than 1-2 players in the same area as me - which means the DE's are popping a whole lot less often and I feel "stuck" grinding away map completion.
At this point I'm just trying to hit 80, finish my personal story, then hope WvW and dungeon running will revive my fanatical love for GW2.
Or it may just be that I don't have the patience and dedication for MMORPGs anymore.
Rift, TOR, EvE, GW2... after 4-6 weeks I'm just "bleh" and want something else.
Going to be tough for GW2 to compete with my time once Halo 4 comes out.
Halloween event will help break up the game play a bit, and I LOVE that I can come back to GW2 any time I want without having to resub - I'm sure I'll be playing GW2 on and off for a long, long time.
But I'm really, really starting to believe I am just a lost cause and will NEVER find the "one MMORPG to rule them all" that I'll want to play for years and years and years.
That is why it is a very good idea to play the game extensively before you make up your mind and go all defensive on forums.
As far as meeting more players. Even if you are on full server you won't see many till you reach the lvl 80 zone. But there also its hard to get players together for events. Only place you will always find players is in W v W or LA.
I came across total of 5 people from lvl 60 to 80 and i am on the server that is always full. I even transferred out to see if its the same on other servers. People just don't like ORR and i don't blame them.
Not true at all. I usually see 20-30 people doing the main DE chains that require a group, and in high level zones (Orr) there are hundreds of players running around doing the big events at the temples of the gods.. Not to mention the hundreds that flock to the 3 dragon spawns every hour.
Seriously, hearts are a very very bad way to level. They were only put in late in the beta to cater to the WoW crowd. Follow the DEs.
You don't have to say 'not true at all' because i am sharing my personal experince not some facts. I have transfered to two full servers in last 4 days to check level 80 zones and we couldn't even get 10 people together for events.
People just get their zone completion and dive in W vW to make karma since it is faster way to get the karma gear.
What servers? Ill go transfer to them and check it out. I have yet to see Orr not busy. For the record I am on Sea of Sorrows.
I am actually subbed to WoW for MOP right now and having fun with their new talent system. Yes its a watered down version of its original inception but I am strangely ok with that. I hate it when companies give you a ton of skills that are little more then just copies of other skills to cut corners (TSW comes to mind). GW2 is a game that is a ton of fun, but it is not a replacement to anything, I feel GW2 is there to act as a break from your primary gaming entertainment and I am ok with that. But I do agree with the OP it is fun to go back to the old quest system and get a little bit of nostalgia flowing.
I hope a company comes out that offers innovative and new questing systems but also gives players the option to switch between those systems at will. GW2 offers too much of the DE experiance that something gets lost in translation. I think the next game needs to find a happy medium between standard quests and DE's or public quests.
I'm level 67 and finding it harder and harder to be happy filling hearts and "grinding" map completion.
Maybe I'm in a wierd level range, but I rarely see more than 1-2 players in the same area as me - which means the DE's are popping a whole lot less often and I feel "stuck" grinding away map completion.
At this point I'm just trying to hit 80, finish my personal story, then hope WvW and dungeon running will revive my fanatical love for GW2.
Or it may just be that I don't have the patience and dedication for MMORPGs anymore.
Rift, TOR, EvE, GW2... after 4-6 weeks I'm just "bleh" and want something else.
Going to be tough for GW2 to compete with my time once Halo 4 comes out.
Halloween event will help break up the game play a bit, and I LOVE that I can come back to GW2 any time I want without having to resub - I'm sure I'll be playing GW2 on and off for a long, long time.
But I'm really, really starting to believe I am just a lost cause and will NEVER find the "one MMORPG to rule them all" that I'll want to play for years and years and years.
No DE's, tons of DEs, empty areas, filled areas, will be quite luck/time based - it isn't uncommon for me to return to place that previously was empty and there was no DEs to be seen and npw is DE after De after DE with tons of people.
If you tired of filing hearts and hit 100%, don't. Just move on, go to area higher level than you change weapon/utility skills, do a dungeon, do WvW.
Those things should change your experience.
Last resort roll an alt to diversify playstyle.
That is one of the strengths of GW2, the ability to change the way you playing.
Currently playing: GW2 Going cardboard starter kit: Ticket to ride, Pandemic, Carcassonne, Dominion, 7 Wonders
[mod edit] What's the point of being disappointed about features that aren't in a game that no one is forcing you to play and not something you enjoy? I will never understand it. I swear you've already posted threads like this one... or was it about the Trinity? Either way, it's like if I kept posting threads in the TSW forums about how their events aren't dynamic enough and I miss them. What's the point? The game is not magically going to start giving you everything you want just because you want to like it. Here's a hint, maybe you (and others) don't actually like it and as a result, shouldn't be stressing yourself out over playing it.
Maybe you should "quest" for a new game.
I so agree with this.
Why come on MMORPG.com and say you dislike that GW2 isn't made the same way a gazillion of other games are made. And, I recall it's not the first completely useless negative thread the OP created on these boards. He just comes off as a perpetual unhappy MMO player. Perhaps these games aren't made for him.
He can always sub any of the HUNDREDS of games that have NPCs with a ? on top of their heads, or he can play GW2 for something different. If he misses them so much, he can hit the 'exit to desktop' button, and click on the panda icon.
I'm level 67 and finding it harder and harder to be happy filling hearts and "grinding" map completion.
Maybe I'm in a wierd level range, but I rarely see more than 1-2 players in the same area as me - which means the DE's are popping a whole lot less often and I feel "stuck" grinding away map completion.
At this point I'm just trying to hit 80, finish my personal story, then hope WvW and dungeon running will revive my fanatical love for GW2.
Or it may just be that I don't have the patience and dedication for MMORPGs anymore.
Rift, TOR, EvE, GW2... after 4-6 weeks I'm just "bleh" and want something else.
Going to be tough for GW2 to compete with my time once Halo 4 comes out.
Halloween event will help break up the game play a bit, and I LOVE that I can come back to GW2 any time I want without having to resub - I'm sure I'll be playing GW2 on and off for a long, long time.
But I'm really, really starting to believe I am just a lost cause and will NEVER find the "one MMORPG to rule them all" that I'll want to play for years and years and years.
That is why it is a very good idea to play the game extensively before you make up your mind and go all defensive on forums.
As far as meeting more players. Even if you are on full server you won't see many till you reach the lvl 80 zone. But there also its hard to get players together for events. Only place you will always find players is in W v W or LA.
I came across total of 5 people from lvl 60 to 80 and i am on the server that is always full. I even transferred out to see if its the same on other servers. People just don't like ORR and i don't blame them.
Not true at all. I usually see 20-30 people doing the main DE chains that require a group, and in high level zones (Orr) there are hundreds of players running around doing the big events at the temples of the gods.. Not to mention the hundreds that flock to the 3 dragon spawns every hour.
Seriously, hearts are a very very bad way to level. They were only put in late in the beta to cater to the WoW crowd. Follow the DEs.
You don't have to say 'not true at all' because i am sharing my personal experince not some facts. I have transfered to two full servers in last 4 days to check level 80 zones and we couldn't even get 10 people together for events.
People just get their zone completion and dive in W vW to make karma since it is faster way to get the karma gear.
What servers? Ill go transfer to them and check it out. I have yet to see Orr not busy. For the record I am on Sea of Sorrows.
I have tried two so called full servers on EU side. I transferred from desolation to far Shiverspeak and situation was the same.
If you pay attention to chat we were having hard time getting few people together to attempt lyssa. In straits of devastation the situation was the same. All WP contested and we had zero control of the map.
All this during 6 to 10 pm prime time for EU.
Last time i was on my lvl 80 engineer situation was the same. I keep hoping for more people to join in ORR as they level up but i guess people just don't like ORR.
So lucky for you if you can do events with 200 people because we can't even get 10 people together on FULL server.
NPCs standing around paying people to go fetch their laundry (or whatever) always bugged me. Go do it yourself! Also, if i have to kill 30 rats to get to a quest-giver, don't immediately send me off to kill more rats.
I vastly prefer the way GW2 handles things, especially the fact that I can complete hearts in the way I choose. If I prefer killing centaurs to watering crops, I can skip the latter and focus on the former. DE's are even better: rushing in to save civilians under attack feels a lot more heroic than reading a text box and following an arrow. Traditional questing makes the player into a glorified delivery boy at best, a paid thug at best.
Phasing is cool in theory as a way to show your effect on the world, but as others have pointed out, it just ends up isolating players from one another. Cataclysm had some amazing quests, but having them happen in a bubble really killed WoW for me. That goes double for SWTOR.
YMMV, but the questing system in GW2 is part of what hooked me. I'd hate to see it changed.
Comments
I'll admit Rift is pretty bad when it comes to turining in quests. "OMFG, you are giving me yet ANOTHER quest?" Some of those hubs did feel endless and that, I think was more from Rift's lack of real estate. But put that aside, GW2 still has the basic concept. If you go into WoW, Take the NPCs that are in a Hub and move them to the actual location of the quest, then take the need to interact with the NPC but make it so that the quest just auto accepts by you being in the area. Make the quest spawn some escorts or some kind of defend a camp of some sort and well, you have something very similar to GW2. Aside from the need to click on people, It's not that much of a difference.
And as far as Hearts go.......well to quote you "I HATE quest hubs. Like seriously, seriously, HATE them." LOL. I mean really? You come out of your personal story as the "Hero of Shaemor" and are highly regarded as the savior or Tyria. and oh btw, Please go collect apples. Please gather my escaped livestock, please go water my platns. Please go stomp on pest's nests. It's over the top how exaggerated tehy pile on the accolades in the personal story only to be smacked in the face with "FarmhandWars2" when you are done. And if I don't want to do those, I can just run around the map looking for orange circles.
I have to fully agree with the OP. The DE's affect and change NOTHING. Meanwhile the phased quests in WoW, which I cannot stand for wholely other reasons, actually changed the world permanantly.
I ran quests for the Otter folk, and as each finished things changed around the city. New buildings appeared, torches I lit stayed lit, a memorial statue appeared. Laters a village grew up hut by hut, vendors appeared, as I made the area safer. True, only I could see these changes, but I COULD see them.
In GW2 I save the caravan, but the merchant will then mysteriously appear back at the start and need to be rescued again, again and again and again...
I hate WoW and will never go back, but anyone that seems to think the Hearts in GW2 are any different at all is deluding themselves. And as to the DE's changing the world? LOL, for all of 5-10 minutes until everything resets and starts again.
OP what are you talking about? Go talk to the NPC if you want, oh and find randomly NAMED NPC's roaming around the world, they also have quests. I got tired of running to the next quest giver, running off to gather or kill for him/her, running back, getting another quest off him/her, rinse and repeating, and get a freaking cookie and 50 copper at the end and a full inventory with no vendor nearby to dump on. Heart quests are a good step in the right direction for the MMO design.
If in 1982 we played with the current mentality, we would have burned down all the pac man games since the red ghost was clearly OP. Instead we just got better at the game.
I never like questchains and massive pve quests etc. that much... being able to run around looking at stuff and get events happening at the same time.. for me thats very nice.
Can understand people hating the lack of direction though
https://ashesofcreation.com/r/Y4U3PQCASUPJ5SED
Not only that, in GW2 the quest givers are usually asking for help, and will come along and contribute to the quest, rather than sitting there stationary being lazy while you do all the work.
Pretty much all the escort DEs are triggered by someone talking to a NPC, they dont just start running off by themselves and hoping that they will get protected. Other DEs are triggered by invasions, which really dont need an invitation for you to help if you see a camp getting smashed by enemies.
Its all very organic and natural in how events happen. For instance I encountered a researcher who wanted some of the undead body parts from a swamp, so I went off to go get some for him. After handing him a bunch he then says thanks and walks back to his research lab, he didnt ask me to follow but out of curiousity I did, next thing I get treated to a humerous chat between the lead researcher and his crewe as they realise the body parts are reattaching themselves to form a giant undead monstrosity, luckily I was there to help defend them.
The quests are there, they have just been replaced by a more natural way of presenting them, rather than a big obnoxious ! or ? on someones head.
First, hearts are widely considered to be the one part of GW2 that resembles traditional questing. But I'm sure you can see how even they somewhat alleviate the the grocery list concept Creslin described by frequently allowing you the freedom to complete them in a variety of ways.
Events, on the other hand, have none of that grocery list feel whatsoever. The on-the-fly presentation of hopping into the action of whatever is going on in the world whether or you choose to participate can feel much more immersive, as does not being given a definitive number objective for the event like "kill 10 of these then you're done." The event ends when the town has been saved, etc.
The most important point of all though is that in playing just this one PvE aspect of GW2, participating in the "stuff" the zones of Tyria have to offer, you are not asked to repeat any one task to the point of redundancy. By mixing up the heart quests with events with mini platforming games with rewarding exploration all in pursuit of map completion (the hook for progression oriented players), it never feels like you're being given a grocery list over and over again. And that makes all the difference to many players.
There are certainly pros and cons to both quest and event based systems, but the grocery list feel is definitely a con for quests while the lackthereof is definitely a pro for events.
I'll agree that there's a tremendous disconnect between the personal story and the actual world--even in more ways than you described--but that's a completely separate point.
I am not saying I think the method of DE's suck. Even the concpet of hearts would be fine, assuming the actual tasks assigned were more fitting of an adventurer/hero. That aside, I think that a game can have a place for all these. But with some guidelines. I think there is a place for NPCs who assign quests. But they should not be errand based tasks in nature. I can't stand when an NPC is like 10yds away from some over run camp and says go reduce thier numbers while he just stands there. But yet when you get those truly epic quests that you remember when you think back down the road. Those I think have a place. But also, Hearts and DEs can also be all added in. Certainly ANET brings a lot of good ideas to the table. I just don't think GW2 is the game to deliver them.
but neither does TSW (which, btw was worked on and released prior to GW2.....so what's your point?)
but what's wrong wtih calling a spade a spade? Regardless of how you "mask" a quest, it's still a quest...It appears that ANET put more effort into masking the quests than making them any good...the only question I have is, why didnt ANET pay attention to how SWTOR masked quests that were the same as other MMO's but worse? ANET kinda doubled down on that idea....
this! +1,000,000....the issue was that ANET was trying too hard to please the "pop" MMO crowd....not REAL MMORPG players. But, that's what money will do....
I'm level 67 and finding it harder and harder to be happy filling hearts and "grinding" map completion.
Maybe I'm in a wierd level range, but I rarely see more than 1-2 players in the same area as me - which means the DE's are popping a whole lot less often and I feel "stuck" grinding away map completion.
At this point I'm just trying to hit 80, finish my personal story, then hope WvW and dungeon running will revive my fanatical love for GW2.
Or it may just be that I don't have the patience and dedication for MMORPGs anymore.
Rift, TOR, EvE, GW2... after 4-6 weeks I'm just "bleh" and want something else.
Going to be tough for GW2 to compete with my time once Halo 4 comes out.
Halloween event will help break up the game play a bit, and I LOVE that I can come back to GW2 any time I want without having to resub - I'm sure I'll be playing GW2 on and off for a long, long time.
But I'm really, really starting to believe I am just a lost cause and will NEVER find the "one MMORPG to rule them all" that I'll want to play for years and years and years.
That is why it is a very good idea to play the game extensively before you make up your mind and go all defensive on forums.
As far as meeting more players. Even if you are on full server you won't see many till you reach the lvl 80 zone. But there also its hard to get players together for events. Only place you will always find players is in W v W or LA.
I came across total of 5 people from lvl 60 to 80 and i am on the server that is always full. I even transferred out to see if its the same on other servers. People just don't like ORR and i don't blame them.
Not true at all. I usually see 20-30 people doing the main DE chains that require a group, and in high level zones (Orr) there are hundreds of players running around doing the big events at the temples of the gods. Not to mention the hundreds that flock to the 3 dragon spawns every hour.
Seriously, hearts are a very very bad way to level. They were only put in late in the beta to cater to the WoW crowd. Follow the DEs.
I literally just logged off after doing the Priestess of Lyssa event with probably 200 hundred players helping out since its a pretty tough event. Took 3 goes to get enough people, but we got the evil thing eventually.
You don't have to say 'not true at all' because i am sharing my personal experince not some facts. I have transfered to two full servers in last 4 days to check level 80 zones and we couldn't even get 10 people together for events.
People just get their zone completion and dive in W vW to make karma since it is faster way to get the karma gear.
DE frequency has nothing to do with area population. The events happen regardless of how many players rock up, the difference is that they scale in difficulty unless they specifically say they are a group quest.
A lot of DEs need to be triggered, you also need to pay attention to local NPC chatter to see when an event is about to happen. Also dont leave immediately after an event, often the NPCs will lead on to another DE. Some NPCs will lead you around the entire map before the DE chain is exhausted.
Also look for the zonewide DE indicator to see where it is up to (orange text on your screen), it tells you where the main action is for each zone.
What servers? Ill go transfer to them and check it out. I have yet to see Orr not busy. For the record I am on Sea of Sorrows.
lolI am actually subbed to WoW for MOP right now and having fun with their new talent system. Yes its a watered down version of its original inception but I am strangely ok with that. I hate it when companies give you a ton of skills that are little more then just copies of other skills to cut corners (TSW comes to mind). GW2 is a game that is a ton of fun, but it is not a replacement to anything, I feel GW2 is there to act as a break from your primary gaming entertainment and I am ok with that. But I do agree with the OP it is fun to go back to the old quest system and get a little bit of nostalgia flowing.
I hope a company comes out that offers innovative and new questing systems but also gives players the option to switch between those systems at will. GW2 offers too much of the DE experiance that something gets lost in translation. I think the next game needs to find a happy medium between standard quests and DE's or public quests.
No DE's, tons of DEs, empty areas, filled areas, will be quite luck/time based - it isn't uncommon for me to return to place that previously was empty and there was no DEs to be seen and npw is DE after De after DE with tons of people.
If you tired of filing hearts and hit 100%, don't. Just move on, go to area higher level than you change weapon/utility skills, do a dungeon, do WvW.
Those things should change your experience.
Last resort roll an alt to diversify playstyle.
That is one of the strengths of GW2, the ability to change the way you playing.
Currently playing: GW2
Going cardboard starter kit: Ticket to ride, Pandemic, Carcassonne, Dominion, 7 Wonders
I so agree with this.
Why come on MMORPG.com and say you dislike that GW2 isn't made the same way a gazillion of other games are made. And, I recall it's not the first completely useless negative thread the OP created on these boards. He just comes off as a perpetual unhappy MMO player. Perhaps these games aren't made for him.
He can always sub any of the HUNDREDS of games that have NPCs with a ? on top of their heads, or he can play GW2 for something different. If he misses them so much, he can hit the 'exit to desktop' button, and click on the panda icon.
Thanks,
I have tried two so called full servers on EU side. I transferred from desolation to far Shiverspeak and situation was the same.
If you pay attention to chat we were having hard time getting few people together to attempt lyssa. In straits of devastation the situation was the same. All WP contested and we had zero control of the map.
All this during 6 to 10 pm prime time for EU.
Last time i was on my lvl 80 engineer situation was the same. I keep hoping for more people to join in ORR as they level up but i guess people just don't like ORR.
So lucky for you if you can do events with 200 people because we can't even get 10 people together on FULL server.
I vastly prefer the way GW2 handles things, especially the fact that I can complete hearts in the way I choose. If I prefer killing centaurs to watering crops, I can skip the latter and focus on the former. DE's are even better: rushing in to save civilians under attack feels a lot more heroic than reading a text box and following an arrow. Traditional questing makes the player into a glorified delivery boy at best, a paid thug at best.
Phasing is cool in theory as a way to show your effect on the world, but as others have pointed out, it just ends up isolating players from one another. Cataclysm had some amazing quests, but having them happen in a bubble really killed WoW for me. That goes double for SWTOR.
YMMV, but the questing system in GW2 is part of what hooked me. I'd hate to see it changed.