Just block grimal. They don't know anything about the game and it's likely they will never have anything of value to say about anything.
Yeah lets block everyone who doen't share same opinions...thanks for the nice idea. How come i never thought about this?
I mean it is an open discussion forum after alll.
His opinion of it not being an MMORPG is ridiculous and you can back him up all you like but you're still wrong. i could just go out and say call of duty isn't an fps because it's not exactly the same as how battlefield does fps's, but i would look stupid no matter how much i think i'm right.
Originally posted by Piiritus Well, in my very own very personal opinion GW2 is extremely shallow and mediocre game. Most Western MMOs are better than GW2 imo, even the old ones.
Shallow and mediocre compared to what MMO?
Compared to most Western MMOs as I said. GW2 story is so generic and bad that it feels like written by 12 yo for his/her classmates. As a PvEr I don't care much about PvP but still like to do it occasionally but this zergfest GW2 style isn't even PvP, it's just...zergfest. Honestly after the first area I had seen almost everything. Got my skills by level 5 and that was it. Every zone afterwards was copypaste from previous with an exception of killing bandits in one and washing or feeding cows in another. This is my opinon of course but for me personally GW2 is The Mediocricy.
No, you didnt. You may have had your weapon skills, but you did not have your utilities, elites, or traits, and most likely only had 1 of several heal skills available to your class.
Saying you had all your skills at 5 is like playing EQ2 and only getting your normal skills, completely ignoring the AA system and never spending any points and then claiming "I have all the skills in EQ2".
So what? Ofc I did not have all my elites etc but had weapon skills and knew whet to wait for. Turning into a wolf was also very epic experience lol. Thought about rolling a new toon to experience different things but honestly I just cannot force myself doing those tedious DE's again. So I rolled several more, played them to level 8-10 and then deleted. Would have played necro but that one was so good I got sick listening to that garbage honestly. GW2 is a good game but story wise it's a pure syrup with sugar. Only thing that I think is better than in other games are GW2 cities which are really big and beautiful.
It is a massively multiplayer role playing game which takes place in a persistent world to boot. So you might not "consider" it a mmo just like you might not "consider" an orange a fruit because.. you don't "feel" it to be a fruit. It's simply ridiculous to say that GW2 is not a mmo because it has all the objective features of a mmo.
Please, what you "feel" about a game is simply no yardstick on which genre it belongs to. You say that it lacks "character development" and "focus". I find it does not. a) It has oodles of character development and customization, much more than is the norm nowadays (SWTOR, bleh) and b) I have no idea what "focus" means. Please elaborate, I'm really curious to know what this "focus" thing is.
I am pretty sure no where he tried to present his opinions as facts or as a yard stick on which genre belongs. he even stated multiple times that it his own personal opinion.
i really hate it when people gang up on one person for giving his opinions.
I really think that if mom and pops are buying reviews, we would be nieve to think billion dollar corporations are not. On top of that, ratings companies are charging businesses (advertise with us) to clean up bad reviews.
Now I am no way shape or form saying that this is what is happening with "X" mmo, but if it were it seems pretty simple for a large company to give 50k to about 20 sites (in ads ofcourse) without making a dent in a 50m budget. Then pay another company 5k to produce 100 positive reviews. In fact it would be good business.
ot - When big money gets involved, it mucks up everything.
Just block grimal. They don't know anything about the game and it's likely they will never have anything of value to say about anything.
Yeah lets block everyone who doen't share same opinions...thanks for the nice idea. How come i never thought about this?
I mean it is an open discussion forum after alll.
His opinion of it not being an MMORPG is ridiculous and you can back him up all you like but you're still wrong. i could just go out and say call of duty isn't an fps because it's not exactly the same as how battlefield does fps's, but i would look stupid no matter how much i think i'm right.
Opinion is an opinion. That is all it is. You can not prove an opinion right or wrong unles he is distorting some facts etched into stones. And as far as i remember the definition of what is MMO is not set in stone or some universal fact.
So please be my guest and continue to argue about opinions.
I've been playing RPGs, starting with table top ones, for over 30 years now (I was like 12 or 13 when I played my first pen and paper session), and character progression (aka "spreadsheet gaming") has NEVER been the main or even a major part of a RPG. A RPG is a Role Playing Game, not Microsoft Excel made into a game. Some of the PnP RPGs I've played didn't even have character stats.
Computer gamers have been made to believe that raising numbers in an infinite hamster wheel driven carrot chase is the main element of a RPG. That has not always been true, and several MMORPGs like UO and AC1 have never been about that. It's EQ, WoW and clones which brainwashed "us" into thinking that was the only way to play a MMORPG.
For someone who has been playing RPG's for so long, you obviously missed the whole point. RPG's are all about character progression and development and always have been. This is through stats, equipment, and experience. The whole point of RPG's was to assume a role in a "fantasy" and develop a character and experiencing things.
By that definition, there's no single player computer RPG which is a RPG either.
You, my friend, confuse "sandbox" with "rpg". The two can be assembled into one game, granted, but are definitely not mutually exclusive.
In pen and paper RPG sessions, the dungeon master tells you a story too. You can choose to ruin it and completely stray away from it, granted, and it can make up for some amusing sessions (I've improvised crazy stuff myself when that happened), but you better find another dungeon master or even RPG club to play with if you do that regularly.
There's a "core" group here on an anti-crusade against every single theme park MMORPG released, and they always use the same, wrong arguments. It's a bit like saying that a movie isn't a movie because it was never release in a theater but only shown on TV. It's nonsense.
There are different styles in the MMORPG genre, and no style makes the game less a "RPG".
Respect, walk, what did you say? Respect, walk Are you talkin' to me? Are you talkin' to me? - PANTERA at HELLFEST 2023
Just block grimal. They don't know anything about the game and it's likely they will never have anything of value to say about anything.
Yeah lets block everyone who doen't share same opinions...thanks for the nice idea. How come i never thought about this?
I mean it is an open discussion forum after alll.
Its more a matter, in his case at least, of insisting his opinions on things he doesnt like = pure fact that cannot be argued.
It has zones and not a seamless world = it isnt an MMORPG, even though that has never been a defining factor in MMORPG. It is not called Massively Multiplayer Online Seamless Role Playing Game. You can have hundreds of players together in the same area doing the same content, which is what makes it Massively Multiplayer. Seamless or zones does not make a difference.
or
It doesnt have enough progression for my personal tastes so progression simply doesnt exist and there = not an RPG, even though there is plenty of progression (just try going into WvW at level 10 and fighting a level 80 by yourself), just not enough for him
I really think that if mom and pops are buying reviews, we would be nieve to think billion dollar corporations are not. On top of that, ratings companies are charging businesses (advertise with us) to clean up bad reviews.
Now I am no way shape or form saying that this is what is happening with "X" mmo, but if it were it seems pretty simple for a large company to give 50k to about 20 sites (in ads ofcourse) without making a dent in a 50m budget. Then pay another company 5k to produce 100 positive reviews. In fact it would be good business.
ot - When big money get involved, it mucks up everything.
Of course review are being bought and shadow accounts made by marketing departments in all sites and forums. It's an usual practice and I'd do the same thing if I were to market a product or do some damage control. It's all about ethics and whether a certain writer accepts your offer or not. Many are tempted. It doesn't even have to be so direct because most gaming sites depend on game companies' add money so it's crucial for them to be in good terms.
When Turbine announced Lotro going p2w then there appared so-called players on forum who had superpowers being able to answer any negative post in a splitsecond after it was written.
Just block grimal. They don't know anything about the game and it's likely they will never have anything of value to say about anything.
Yeah lets block everyone who doen't share same opinions...thanks for the nice idea. How come i never thought about this?
I mean it is an open discussion forum after alll.
His opinion of it not being an MMORPG is ridiculous and you can back him up all you like but you're still wrong. i could just go out and say call of duty isn't an fps because it's not exactly the same as how battlefield does fps's, but i would look stupid no matter how much i think i'm right.
I think you are missing his point. Scroll up and read my post.
GW2 may technically be an mmorpg. But for those of us there in the beginning, what mmorpg's have become is not what we had at first and not what we envisioned for the future.
Let me put it this way:
Is the game named Guild Wars 2? Yes. Is the focus of the game Wars between guilds? No. So technically it is named Guild Wars 2 but it is not actually about warring with guilds.
In the same way, Guild Wars 2 is an mmorpg. But guild wars has relatively little to do with creating your own role or persona within a game world.
To older folks, 'rpg' denotes a creative position. I create the role, I create what the character says, I choose where I go next. In this context, GW gives you the role, says things for your character and tells him exactly where to go.
In this sense, he is absolutely right - GW is not an mmorpg.
Think outside the box. When someone asks you to go Xerox something, do you scratch your head because your copier is made by Canon?
He is speaking metaphorically, philosophically and there are a lot of people who agree that what we have now may be called 'mmorpgs' but to us they are anything but.
Just block grimal. They don't know anything about the game and it's likely they will never have anything of value to say about anything.
Yeah lets block everyone who doen't share same opinions...thanks for the nice idea. How come i never thought about this?
I mean it is an open discussion forum after alll.
His opinion of it not being an MMORPG is ridiculous and you can back him up all you like but you're still wrong. i could just go out and say call of duty isn't an fps because it's not exactly the same as how battlefield does fps's, but i would look stupid no matter how much i think i'm right.
Opinion is an opinion. That is all it is. You can not prove an opinion right or wrong unles he is distorting some facts etched into stones. And as far as i remember the definition of what is MMO is not set in stone or some universal fact.
So please be my guest and continue to argue about opinions.
People also had an opinion that the world was flat, his opinion does not disprove guild wars 2 being an mmorpg. Until he can prove so then guild wars 2 well remain an mmorpg.
Just block grimal. They don't know anything about the game and it's likely they will never have anything of value to say about anything.
Yeah lets block everyone who doen't share same opinions...thanks for the nice idea. How come i never thought about this?
I mean it is an open discussion forum after alll.
Its more a matter, in his case at least, of insisting his opinions on things he doesnt like = pure fact that cannot be argued.
It has zones and not a seamless world = it isnt an MMORPG, even though that has never been a defining factor in MMORPG. It is not called Massively Multiplayer Online Seamless Role Playing Game. You can have hundreds of players together in the same area doing the same content, which is what makes it Massively Multiplayer. Seamless or zones does not make a difference.
or
It doesnt have enough progression for my personal tastes so progression simply doesnt exist and there = not an RPG, even though there is plenty of progression (just try going into WvW at level 10 and fighting a level 80 by yourself), just not enough for him
That is your own interpretation. When a person claims multiple teimes that it is way of thinking and personal opinion on how he looks at the RPG part of GW2 it is pretty clear he is not giving his opinion as a pure fact.
Anyways, i warned him he will be flamed multiple times for giving his opinion. Somethings never change.
It is a massively multiplayer role playing game which takes place in a persistent world to boot. So you might not "consider" it a mmo just like you might not "consider" an orange a fruit because.. you don't "feel" it to be a fruit. It's simply ridiculous to say that GW2 is not a mmo because it has all the objective features of a mmo.
Please, what you "feel" about a game is simply no yardstick on which genre it belongs to. You say that it lacks "character development" and "focus". I find it does not. a) It has oodles of character development and customization, much more than is the norm nowadays (SWTOR, bleh) and b) I have no idea what "focus" means. Please elaborate, I'm really curious to know what this "focus" thing is.
I am pretty sure no where he tried to present his opinions as facts or as a yard stick on which genre belongs. he even stated multiple times that it his own personal opinion.
i really hate it when people gang up on one person for giving his opinions.
Opinion is one thing and objective facts are another. A game's genre placement does not fall into the category of "opinions." Most games can be very precisely placed within a genre - it is an objective category and that's where unsubstantiated subjective "opinions" have no place.
A valid "opinion" would be saying: "I feel the game lacks focus." - that is an opinion, it's subjectivity is implied and we can go into semantics what this "lack of focus" means and so on..
However, saying that "GW2 is not a mmorpg because it lacks focus" is not an opinion but a massive logical falacy masquerading as an honest subjective opinion. Whether a game is or is not mmorpg is an objective fact. It has nothing to do with "feelings" of "focus". The genre is not defined in those terms but whether it has some very objective features, such as being "Massive, Multiplayer, Role-Playing" We can even argue "how much" a game is or is not a mmorpg. Saying that GW2 is not an mmorpg is like saying, "Civilization V is not a PC game because it "feels" like a boardgame to me."
I'm all for nice clash of subjective "opinions", especially if they can be wittily argued. But let's not mix hard facts with opinions.
Just block grimal. They don't know anything about the game and it's likely they will never have anything of value to say about anything.
Yeah lets block everyone who doen't share same opinions...thanks for the nice idea. How come i never thought about this?
I mean it is an open discussion forum after alll.
His opinion of it not being an MMORPG is ridiculous and you can back him up all you like but you're still wrong. i could just go out and say call of duty isn't an fps because it's not exactly the same as how battlefield does fps's, but i would look stupid no matter how much i think i'm right.
Opinion is an opinion. That is all it is. You can not prove an opinion right or wrong unles he is distorting some facts etched into stones. And as far as i remember the definition of what is MMO is not set in stone or some universal fact.
So please be my guest and continue to argue about opinions.
People also had an opinion that the world was flat, his opinion does not disprove guild wars 2 being an mmorpg. Until he can prove so then guild wars 2 well remain an mmorpg.
World is not flat is scientificly proven fact. I didn't know MMOS were proven facts when it comes to their definitions.
I've been playing RPGs, starting with table top ones, for over 30 years now (I was like 12 or 13 when I played my first pen and paper session), and character progression (aka "spreadsheet gaming") has NEVER been the main or even a major part of a RPG. A RPG is a Role Playing Game, not Microsoft Excel made into a game. Some of the PnP RPGs I've played didn't even have character stats.
Computer gamers have been made to believe that raising numbers in an infinite hamster wheel driven carrot chase is the main element of a RPG. That has not always been true, and several MMORPGs like UO and AC1 have never been about that. It's EQ, WoW and clones which brainwashed "us" into thinking that was the only way to play a MMORPG.
For someone who has been playing RPG's for so long, you obviously missed the whole point. RPG's are all about character progression and development and always have been. This is through stats, equipment, and experience. The whole point of RPG's was to assume a role in a "fantasy" and develop a character and experiencing things.
No he really hasn't missed what an RPG is. I've been playing since Pen and Paper too and I agree with The_Korrigan that the carrot chase does not have to be the thing RPGs are all about. Maybe it is you that missed this aspect of an RPG?
Just block grimal. They don't know anything about the game and it's likely they will never have anything of value to say about anything.
Yeah lets block everyone who doen't share same opinions...thanks for the nice idea. How come i never thought about this?
I mean it is an open discussion forum after alll.
His opinion of it not being an MMORPG is ridiculous and you can back him up all you like but you're still wrong. i could just go out and say call of duty isn't an fps because it's not exactly the same as how battlefield does fps's, but i would look stupid no matter how much i think i'm right.
Opinion is an opinion. That is all it is. You can not prove an opinion right or wrong unles he is distorting some facts etched into stones. And as far as i remember the definition of what is MMO is not set in stone or some universal fact.
So please be my guest and continue to argue about opinions.
People also had an opinion that the world was flat, his opinion does not disprove guild wars 2 being an mmorpg. Until he can prove so then guild wars 2 well remain an mmorpg.
World is not flat is scientificly proven fact. I didn't know MMOS were proven facts when it comes to their definitions.
You can not state that your game is an mmo when it is in fact not. that is false advertising and you can be sued or have your product taken off the market.
I really think that if mom and pops are buying reviews, we would be nieve to think billion dollar corporations are not. On top of that, ratings companies are charging businesses (advertise with us) to clean up bad reviews.
Now I am no way shape or form saying that this is what is happening with "X" mmo, but if it were it seems pretty simple for a large company to give 50k to about 20 sites (in ads ofcourse) without making a dent in a 50m budget. Then pay another company 5k to produce 100 positive reviews. In fact it would be good business.
ot - When big money get involved, it mucks up everything.
Of course review are being bought and shadow accounts made by marketing departments in all sites and forums. It's an usual practice and I'd do the same thing if I were to market a product or do some damage control. It's all about ethics and whether a certain writer accepts your offer or not. Many are tempted. It doesn't even have to be so direct because most gaming sites depend on game companies' add money so it's crucial for them to be in good terms.
When Turbine announced Lotro going p2w then there appared so-called players on forum who had superpowers being able to answer any negative post in a splitsecond after it was written.
It sucks. I'm a person who wants to trust stuff...
It is a massively multiplayer role playing game which takes place in a persistent world to boot. So you might not "consider" it a mmo just like you might not "consider" an orange a fruit because.. you don't "feel" it to be a fruit. It's simply ridiculous to say that GW2 is not a mmo because it has all the objective features of a mmo.
Please, what you "feel" about a game is simply no yardstick on which genre it belongs to. You say that it lacks "character development" and "focus". I find it does not. a) It has oodles of character development and customization, much more than is the norm nowadays (SWTOR, bleh) and b) I have no idea what "focus" means. Please elaborate, I'm really curious to know what this "focus" thing is.
I am pretty sure no where he tried to present his opinions as facts or as a yard stick on which genre belongs. he even stated multiple times that it his own personal opinion.
i really hate it when people gang up on one person for giving his opinions.
Opinion is one thing and objective facts are another. A game's genre placement does not fall into the category of "opinions." Most games can be very precisely placed within a genre - it is an objective category and that's where unsubstantiated subjective "opinions" have no place.
A valid "opinion" would be saying: "I feel the game lacks focus." - that is an opinion, it's subjectivity is implied and we can go into semantics what this "lack of focus" means and so on..
However, saying that "GW2 is not a mmorpg because it lacks focus" is not an opinion but a massive logical falacy masquerading as an honest subjective opinion. Whether a game is or is not mmorpg is an objective fact. It has nothing to do with "feelings" of "focus". The genre is not defined in those terms but whether it has some very objective features, such as being "Massive, Multiplayer, Role-Playing" We can even argue "how much" a game is or is not a mmorpg. Saying that GW2 is not an mmorpg is like saying, "Civilization V is not a PC game because it "feels" like a boardgame to me."
I'm all for nice clash of subjective "opinions", especially if they can be wittily argued. But let's not mix hard facts with opinions.
What you are saying would make more sense if MMOS indeed had a a universal defnition on which every single MMO player agreed upon. And since there is no such definition of MMOS set in stone and since MMOS keep eveolving every year..people are free to interpret MMOS in whatever manner they feel like. hence nothing more than a subjective opinion.
If you can give me a unversaly accepted definition of MMOS i will agree with you. But sadly you can not define such an ever changing and evolving genre with one definitive definition.
Just block grimal. They don't know anything about the game and it's likely they will never have anything of value to say about anything.
Yeah lets block everyone who doen't share same opinions...thanks for the nice idea. How come i never thought about this?
I mean it is an open discussion forum after alll.
His opinion of it not being an MMORPG is ridiculous and you can back him up all you like but you're still wrong. i could just go out and say call of duty isn't an fps because it's not exactly the same as how battlefield does fps's, but i would look stupid no matter how much i think i'm right.
Opinion is an opinion. That is all it is. You can not prove an opinion right or wrong unles he is distorting some facts etched into stones. And as far as i remember the definition of what is MMO is not set in stone or some universal fact.
So please be my guest and continue to argue about opinions.
People also had an opinion that the world was flat, his opinion does not disprove guild wars 2 being an mmorpg. Until he can prove so then guild wars 2 well remain an mmorpg.
World is not flat is scientificly proven fact. I didn't know MMOS were proven facts when it comes to their definitions.
Of course they are. MMORPGS are "Massively Multiplayer Online Role-Playing Games." I don't know how much more of a definition you need. You might throw in "persistent world" into the definition, like most do, and still GW2 squarely meets all the criteria. Whether a game is a "mmorpg" or not is still 100% fact-based thing. The only moment subjective feeling can come into play is with games which are somehow borderline vis-a-vis the definition which is contained in the acronym, (such as GW1, for example, or even D3) GW2 so perfectly meets all the classical criteria that it is perfectly natural that any "opinion" that GW2 is not in fact a mmo is met with derison.
Again Massively Multiplayer Online Role-Playing Game. How much more of a definition do you need? What can possibly be unclear or ambigious in that?
I've been playing RPGs, starting with table top ones, for over 30 years now (I was like 12 or 13 when I played my first pen and paper session), and character progression (aka "spreadsheet gaming") has NEVER been the main or even a major part of a RPG. A RPG is a Role Playing Game, not Microsoft Excel made into a game. Some of the PnP RPGs I've played didn't even have character stats.
Computer gamers have been made to believe that raising numbers in an infinite hamster wheel driven carrot chase is the main element of a RPG. That has not always been true, and several MMORPGs like UO and AC1 have never been about that. It's EQ, WoW and clones which brainwashed "us" into thinking that was the only way to play a MMORPG.
For someone who has been playing RPG's for so long, you obviously missed the whole point. RPG's are all about character progression and development and always have been. This is through stats, equipment, and experience. The whole point of RPG's was to assume a role in a "fantasy" and develop a character and experiencing things.
No he really hasn't missed what an RPG is. I've been playing since Pen and Paper too and I agree with The_Korrigan that the carrot chase does not have to be the thing RPGs are all about. Maybe it is you that missed this aspect of an RPG?
Did you even read what I wrote? Reading comprehension goes a long way. I have played P&P since the early 80's. I wasn't even talking about a gear carrot chase. It was all about progressing and developing your character..... partially through gear, but more through experience and abilities....and please, what paladin was wanting to get a +5 Holy Avenger.... who wasn't excited every time they opened a chest or searched through a dragon's hoard.....
Just block grimal. They don't know anything about the game and it's likely they will never have anything of value to say about anything.
Yeah lets block everyone who doen't share same opinions...thanks for the nice idea. How come i never thought about this?
I mean it is an open discussion forum after alll.
His opinion of it not being an MMORPG is ridiculous and you can back him up all you like but you're still wrong. i could just go out and say call of duty isn't an fps because it's not exactly the same as how battlefield does fps's, but i would look stupid no matter how much i think i'm right.
Opinion is an opinion. That is all it is. You can not prove an opinion right or wrong unles he is distorting some facts etched into stones. And as far as i remember the definition of what is MMO is not set in stone or some universal fact.
So please be my guest and continue to argue about opinions.
People also had an opinion that the world was flat, his opinion does not disprove guild wars 2 being an mmorpg. Until he can prove so then guild wars 2 well remain an mmorpg.
World is not flat is scientificly proven fact. I didn't know MMOS were proven facts when it comes to their definitions.
You can not state that your game is an mmo when it is in fact not. that is false advertising and you can be sued or have your product taken off the market.
Out of curiosity: does the term "MMO" have a legal definition?
Just block grimal. They don't know anything about the game and it's likely they will never have anything of value to say about anything.
Yeah lets block everyone who doen't share same opinions...thanks for the nice idea. How come i never thought about this?
I mean it is an open discussion forum after alll.
Its more a matter, in his case at least, of insisting his opinions on things he doesnt like = pure fact that cannot be argued.
It has zones and not a seamless world = it isnt an MMORPG, even though that has never been a defining factor in MMORPG. It is not called Massively Multiplayer Online Seamless Role Playing Game. You can have hundreds of players together in the same area doing the same content, which is what makes it Massively Multiplayer. Seamless or zones does not make a difference.
or
It doesnt have enough progression for my personal tastes so progression simply doesnt exist and there = not an RPG, even though there is plenty of progression (just try going into WvW at level 10 and fighting a level 80 by yourself), just not enough for him
That is your own interpretation. When a person claims multiple teimes that it is way of thinking and personal opinion on how he looks at the RPG part of GW2 it is pretty clear he is not giving his opinion as a pure fact.
Anyways, i warned him he will be flamed multiple times for giving his opinion. Somethings never change.
I wonder if youve seen some of his other posts, not just in this thread about how GW2 is not even in the genre of MMORPG and has more in common with Diablo than MMOs. Such comments arent opinions, theyre claiming facts.
Its like saying a movie isnt a comedy, because you personally didnt find it funny. It doesnt change the fact that it is classified as a comedy. It just means it doesnt appeal to your sense of humor.
Or better yet. George Carlin isnt a comedian, because you personally dont find him funny. He is just some guy who talks into a microphone.
Personal opinion does not change the definitions or means of classifying things.
Just block grimal. They don't know anything about the game and it's likely they will never have anything of value to say about anything.
Yeah lets block everyone who doen't share same opinions...thanks for the nice idea. How come i never thought about this?
I mean it is an open discussion forum after alll.
His opinion of it not being an MMORPG is ridiculous and you can back him up all you like but you're still wrong. i could just go out and say call of duty isn't an fps because it's not exactly the same as how battlefield does fps's, but i would look stupid no matter how much i think i'm right.
Opinion is an opinion. That is all it is. You can not prove an opinion right or wrong unles he is distorting some facts etched into stones. And as far as i remember the definition of what is MMO is not set in stone or some universal fact.
So please be my guest and continue to argue about opinions.
People also had an opinion that the world was flat, his opinion does not disprove guild wars 2 being an mmorpg. Until he can prove so then guild wars 2 well remain an mmorpg.
World is not flat is scientificly proven fact. I didn't know MMOS were proven facts when it comes to their definitions.
You can not state that your game is an mmo when it is in fact not. that is false advertising and you can be sued or have your product taken off the market.
Out of curiosity: does the term "MMO" have a legal definition?
It does when you market it as so. saying in public our game is an MMORPG.
Comments
His opinion of it not being an MMORPG is ridiculous and you can back him up all you like but you're still wrong. i could just go out and say call of duty isn't an fps because it's not exactly the same as how battlefield does fps's, but i would look stupid no matter how much i think i'm right.
So what? Ofc I did not have all my elites etc but had weapon skills and knew whet to wait for. Turning into a wolf was also very epic experience lol. Thought about rolling a new toon to experience different things but honestly I just cannot force myself doing those tedious DE's again. So I rolled several more, played them to level 8-10 and then deleted. Would have played necro but that one was so good I got sick listening to that garbage honestly. GW2 is a good game but story wise it's a pure syrup with sugar. Only thing that I think is better than in other games are GW2 cities which are really big and beautiful.
I am pretty sure no where he tried to present his opinions as facts or as a yard stick on which genre belongs. he even stated multiple times that it his own personal opinion.
i really hate it when people gang up on one person for giving his opinions.
You know what's funny? They just (5 minutes ago) did a piece on CNN about companies buying reviews. Here is the New York Times version of the story.
http://www.nytimes.com/2012/10/18/technology/yelp-tries-to-halt-deceptive-reviews.html?_r=0
I really think that if mom and pops are buying reviews, we would be nieve to think billion dollar corporations are not. On top of that, ratings companies are charging businesses (advertise with us) to clean up bad reviews.
Now I am no way shape or form saying that this is what is happening with "X" mmo, but if it were it seems pretty simple for a large company to give 50k to about 20 sites (in ads ofcourse) without making a dent in a 50m budget. Then pay another company 5k to produce 100 positive reviews. In fact it would be good business.
ot - When big money gets involved, it mucks up everything.
Opinion is an opinion. That is all it is. You can not prove an opinion right or wrong unles he is distorting some facts etched into stones. And as far as i remember the definition of what is MMO is not set in stone or some universal fact.
So please be my guest and continue to argue about opinions.
For someone who has been playing RPG's for so long, you obviously missed the whole point. RPG's are all about character progression and development and always have been. This is through stats, equipment, and experience. The whole point of RPG's was to assume a role in a "fantasy" and develop a character and experiencing things.
By that definition, there's no single player computer RPG which is a RPG either.
You, my friend, confuse "sandbox" with "rpg". The two can be assembled into one game, granted, but are definitely not mutually exclusive.
In pen and paper RPG sessions, the dungeon master tells you a story too. You can choose to ruin it and completely stray away from it, granted, and it can make up for some amusing sessions (I've improvised crazy stuff myself when that happened), but you better find another dungeon master or even RPG club to play with if you do that regularly.
There's a "core" group here on an anti-crusade against every single theme park MMORPG released, and they always use the same, wrong arguments. It's a bit like saying that a movie isn't a movie because it was never release in a theater but only shown on TV. It's nonsense.
There are different styles in the MMORPG genre, and no style makes the game less a "RPG".
Respect, walk
Are you talkin' to me? Are you talkin' to me?
- PANTERA at HELLFEST 2023
Its more a matter, in his case at least, of insisting his opinions on things he doesnt like = pure fact that cannot be argued.
It has zones and not a seamless world = it isnt an MMORPG, even though that has never been a defining factor in MMORPG. It is not called Massively Multiplayer Online Seamless Role Playing Game. You can have hundreds of players together in the same area doing the same content, which is what makes it Massively Multiplayer. Seamless or zones does not make a difference.
or
It doesnt have enough progression for my personal tastes so progression simply doesnt exist and there = not an RPG, even though there is plenty of progression (just try going into WvW at level 10 and fighting a level 80 by yourself), just not enough for him
Reviewers doing reviews on sites which are paid with advertising money.
Who on earth except some sheeple care about review scores anymore today.
Of course review are being bought and shadow accounts made by marketing departments in all sites and forums. It's an usual practice and I'd do the same thing if I were to market a product or do some damage control. It's all about ethics and whether a certain writer accepts your offer or not. Many are tempted. It doesn't even have to be so direct because most gaming sites depend on game companies' add money so it's crucial for them to be in good terms.
When Turbine announced Lotro going p2w then there appared so-called players on forum who had superpowers being able to answer any negative post in a splitsecond after it was written.
All the AAA games released in the last year have been over-hyped.
This is the problem with an over saturated market reviewed by the same market that sells said products.
I think you are missing his point. Scroll up and read my post.
GW2 may technically be an mmorpg. But for those of us there in the beginning, what mmorpg's have become is not what we had at first and not what we envisioned for the future.
Let me put it this way:
Is the game named Guild Wars 2? Yes. Is the focus of the game Wars between guilds? No. So technically it is named Guild Wars 2 but it is not actually about warring with guilds.
In the same way, Guild Wars 2 is an mmorpg. But guild wars has relatively little to do with creating your own role or persona within a game world.
To older folks, 'rpg' denotes a creative position. I create the role, I create what the character says, I choose where I go next. In this context, GW gives you the role, says things for your character and tells him exactly where to go.
In this sense, he is absolutely right - GW is not an mmorpg.
Think outside the box. When someone asks you to go Xerox something, do you scratch your head because your copier is made by Canon?
He is speaking metaphorically, philosophically and there are a lot of people who agree that what we have now may be called 'mmorpgs' but to us they are anything but.
People also had an opinion that the world was flat, his opinion does not disprove guild wars 2 being an mmorpg. Until he can prove so then guild wars 2 well remain an mmorpg.
That is your own interpretation. When a person claims multiple teimes that it is way of thinking and personal opinion on how he looks at the RPG part of GW2 it is pretty clear he is not giving his opinion as a pure fact.
Anyways, i warned him he will be flamed multiple times for giving his opinion. Somethings never change.
Opinion is one thing and objective facts are another. A game's genre placement does not fall into the category of "opinions." Most games can be very precisely placed within a genre - it is an objective category and that's where unsubstantiated subjective "opinions" have no place.
A valid "opinion" would be saying: "I feel the game lacks focus." - that is an opinion, it's subjectivity is implied and we can go into semantics what this "lack of focus" means and so on..
However, saying that "GW2 is not a mmorpg because it lacks focus" is not an opinion but a massive logical falacy masquerading as an honest subjective opinion. Whether a game is or is not mmorpg is an objective fact. It has nothing to do with "feelings" of "focus". The genre is not defined in those terms but whether it has some very objective features, such as being "Massive, Multiplayer, Role-Playing" We can even argue "how much" a game is or is not a mmorpg. Saying that GW2 is not an mmorpg is like saying, "Civilization V is not a PC game because it "feels" like a boardgame to me."
I'm all for nice clash of subjective "opinions", especially if they can be wittily argued. But let's not mix hard facts with opinions.
World is not flat is scientificly proven fact. I didn't know MMOS were proven facts when it comes to their definitions.
No he really hasn't missed what an RPG is. I've been playing since Pen and Paper too and I agree with The_Korrigan that the carrot chase does not have to be the thing RPGs are all about. Maybe it is you that missed this aspect of an RPG?
You can not state that your game is an mmo when it is in fact not. that is false advertising and you can be sued or have your product taken off the market.
What you are saying would make more sense if MMOS indeed had a a universal defnition on which every single MMO player agreed upon. And since there is no such definition of MMOS set in stone and since MMOS keep eveolving every year..people are free to interpret MMOS in whatever manner they feel like. hence nothing more than a subjective opinion.
If you can give me a unversaly accepted definition of MMOS i will agree with you. But sadly you can not define such an ever changing and evolving genre with one definitive definition.
Of course they are. MMORPGS are "Massively Multiplayer Online Role-Playing Games." I don't know how much more of a definition you need. You might throw in "persistent world" into the definition, like most do, and still GW2 squarely meets all the criteria. Whether a game is a "mmorpg" or not is still 100% fact-based thing. The only moment subjective feeling can come into play is with games which are somehow borderline vis-a-vis the definition which is contained in the acronym, (such as GW1, for example, or even D3) GW2 so perfectly meets all the classical criteria that it is perfectly natural that any "opinion" that GW2 is not in fact a mmo is met with derison.
Again Massively Multiplayer Online Role-Playing Game. How much more of a definition do you need? What can possibly be unclear or ambigious in that?
Did you even read what I wrote? Reading comprehension goes a long way. I have played P&P since the early 80's. I wasn't even talking about a gear carrot chase. It was all about progressing and developing your character..... partially through gear, but more through experience and abilities....and please, what paladin was wanting to get a +5 Holy Avenger.... who wasn't excited every time they opened a chest or searched through a dragon's hoard.....
Out of curiosity: does the term "MMO" have a legal definition?
I wonder if youve seen some of his other posts, not just in this thread about how GW2 is not even in the genre of MMORPG and has more in common with Diablo than MMOs. Such comments arent opinions, theyre claiming facts.
Its like saying a movie isnt a comedy, because you personally didnt find it funny. It doesnt change the fact that it is classified as a comedy. It just means it doesnt appeal to your sense of humor.
Or better yet. George Carlin isnt a comedian, because you personally dont find him funny. He is just some guy who talks into a microphone.
Personal opinion does not change the definitions or means of classifying things.
It does when you market it as so. saying in public our game is an MMORPG.