By that definition, there's no single player computer RPG which is a RPG either.
You, my friend, confuse "sandbox" with "rpg". The two can be assembled into one game, granted, but are definitely not mutually exclusive.
In pen and paper RPG sessions, the dungeon master tells you a story too. You can choose to ruin it and completely stray away from it, granted, and it can make up for some amusing sessions (I've improvised crazy stuff myself when that happened), but you better find another dungeon master or even RPG club to play with if you do that regularly.
There's a "core" group here on an anti-crusade against every single theme park MMORPG released, and they always use the same, wrong arguments. It's a bit like saying that a movie isn't a movie because it was never release in a theater but only shown on TV. It's nonsense.
There are different styles in the MMORPG genre, and no style makes the game less a "RPG".
No no....but I see your point; I should be more specific.
I understand that you can play someone else's role and it be an rpg. I still think GW2 is an rpg. You are definately playing a role.
I also understand that GW2 is massively multiplayer and online. I in fact understand that GW2 is technically an MMORPG.
It would be easy to say I'm talking about themepark vs. sandbox, but that is not the case. In fact, I almost exclusively play themparks. But I like themeparks where 'I' am the visitor. I go where I want when I want and act how I want to act. Today it feels like they haven't just given us the park, they've given us a stand-in to ride the rides for us. I stopped playing GW2 and SWToR for the same reason. I could not stand any of the 'roles' they chose for me. I hated the voice overs, because, I simply would not have my toon act like that or say those things. Not to mention that the dialogue is tired and cliche and seems to be a product of the games structure rather than informing the games structure.
For example;
In everquest, it was a themepark, but I felt like it was 'my toon' running it. My human sk didn't have the same voice over as every other human sk. Same in WoW believe it or not. You run their quests, but never feel like they are 'imposing' words or personality on your toon. In GW2 - they literally put the words in your mouth. And they are the same words of everyone else of your like build.
In DnD, as you rightly pointed out, you had a storyteller also. But it was interactive, unscripted and flexible. No matter how many times you run a dynamic event in GW2 it is essentially the same. Where I could run a module in DnD with a different character and have it be absolutely nothing like the last experience.
This is what I expected out of mmo's as well. It is what a lot of us expected. It's what developers told us they wanted to do.
This is simply an argument of symantics.
I think we can all agree that GW2 is an mmorpg as the industry and community at large conceive them. We are just saying that what has become of mmorpg's is not what we expected the genre to turn into.
So just don't be surprised if some of us ol' timers say things like, 'GW2 isn't an mmorpg' - we aren't 'wrong', we aren't just being 'difficult', we are simply alluding to the fact that at one time, the concept of an 'mmorpg' had a completely and utterly different connotation then what it does today.
Think of it like the word 'gay'. It used to mean happy, giddy. It doesn't any more. When ol' timers use 'mmorpg' we are using the old definition, because the new definition invokes negative connotations to us.
But let me say this again; it is not a themepark vs. sandbox argument. I love a lot of themeparks. But a themepark doesn't preclude the player as a creative force in the world. SWToR and GW2 have done something I never expected to happen in an mmo.
It used to be, when I looked at the log in screen, I saw a character I customized, I created, I invested in.
Now when I look at a log in screen, I see: bioware's consular or arenanet's warrior. Not mine.
There are those of us who feel this role 'creation' is an essential part of why we play these games. GW2 doesn't have it. Therefore, to us, if it is missing the central element, it ceases to be what we call 'mmorpgs'.
i didnt vote cuz theres no inbetween...yah its a "OK" title ...not really much out there for it to compete with and atm its no doubt the best mmo title out there only cuz its new..fresh..does things different..but is it super-duber-uber -great of a game? ..hell no! maybe its just me ..im geting older and mmos just cant keep my focus anymore IMO as gw2 is fresh / new theres ALOT of things i hate that it brings to the genra cuz maybe im just too old school..i own the game and played it for about a month 1/2 max out pvp'd and all that but it became dull as hell very quick to ME ..is it the holy trinity?..hell no..is it a great game for new comers that are new to the "new" type of mmo genra?..yea its easy peezy..does it deserve awards yah sure ATM theres nothing thats really out there but its far from being the greats game evar! lol..even the new title such as TSW SWTOR TERRA ARE GAWD AWFULL..but i have my fingers crossed on arche age but still not giveing my hopes up lol
Of course they are. MMORPGS are "Massively Multiplayer Online Role-Playing Games." I don't know how much more of a definition you need. You might throw in "persistent world" into the definition, like most do, and still GW2 squarely meets all the criteria. Whether a game is a "mmorpg" or not is still 100% fact-based thing. The only moment subjective feeling can come into play is with games which are somehow borderline vis-a-vis the definition which is contained in the acronym, (such as GW1, for example, or even D3) GW2 so perfectly meets all the classical criteria that it is perfectly natural that any "opinion" that GW2 is not in fact a mmo is met with derison.
Again Massively Multiplayer Online Role-Playing Game. How much more of a definition do you need?
Does "Massively" refer to the concurrent population playing within visible range, same server or same game? Perhaps it refers to the accounts created or the game copies bought? How is massively defined and what is the least amount required for it stay "massively"? Is it perhaps tied to the design and max capacity? If a game has almost no population at one point but lots during previous years, is it still "massively" at the end?
What are the necessary requirements to be considered a "Role-Playing Game"?
you cannot just pick one word out of the acronym and question its definition, it's massively multiplayer online role playing game. Massively on it's own has no real meaning unless it's describing something. I'm pretty sure it was originally massive not massively.
Actually it was massively, not massive. Unlike some people like to believe, MMO has no bearing on the size of the world or anything along those lines. It can be a tiny little world, but if it is massively multiplayer, it could still be called an MMO.
MMORPG was a term first used by Richard Garriot to describe Ultima Online. It wasnt the size of the world, or seamless vs zoned, or any such nonsense that brought about the term MMORPG. It was simply the fact that large numbers of players could interact with eachother in the same world.
That is ALL an MMO is. A world in which large amounts of players can interact with eachother online. The rest of it, such as RPG, FPS, etc is of course subject to the specifics of that genre and what features the game has. That part could be more debatable as to what those specifics are, but MMO is not debatable, regardless of how much people enjoy thinking it is. IT wasnt some trendy term that people just randomly started using for the hell of it and nobody knows what it really means. It has a clear meaning & application which it was used for by the person who coined the term, Richard Garriott.
Oh this will be good, if it doesn't go the way the avid fans want their will be hell to pay lol.
And to answer the OP, no i don't think Guild Bores 2 deserves the acclaim, the novelty soon wears off and you are left feeling, what is the point.
It has a few good things going for it but it's not the second coming like some over the top fans think.
Of course this is just my take on it but i found it boring as hell, hence the name Guild Bores 2.
I have to agree, i still play GW2...but it feels more like a single player MMO with a multiplayer mode, i really dont feel the MMO aspects of this game at all, i pretty much play solo aside from events 90% of the time i spend in game, at level 50 i find the game very repetitive and boring, i still log in but the only thing i can say I honestly enjoy about this game is the exploration and world, they did a very good job on the world.
But aside from that the combat, story, MMO aspects of GW2 is as you said boring.
See? This is a proper opinion. "I don't feel the mmo aspects of this game at all." That's all proper and valid and you can even elaborate on why this might be so.
Can you folks see how this differs from the statement "This is obviously not a mmo because it does not feel that way to me."
this type of threads are really getting old. 1 guy doesn't like the game and he has to see if there's someone who shares his opinion.
Yes, the reviews were correct. Mostly everything I've read in the reviews is in the exact shape or form in the game.
And that is no wonder since everything ANET shared with their fans is in the game! Which can't be said for many devs out there nowadays and I think it's really really sad how the suits behind the devs are trying to screw their fans over lately.
Also, I've noticed that every thread which has a poll like that shows that there's more people who like the game than those which don't on this forums.
"Happiness is not a destination. It is a method of life." -------------------------------
I bought into the hype to only find myself burned out by lvl 30. All the beta events kinda steered me down that road. Its visually a awesome game but didn't poses much beyond that for me .
Originally posted by odinsrath i didnt vote cuz theres no inbetween...yah its a "OK" title ...not really much out there for it to compete with and atm its no doubt the best mmo title out there only cuz its new..fresh..does things different..but is it super-duber-uber -great of a game? ..hell no! maybe its just me ..im geting older and mmos just cant keep my focus anymore IMO as gw2 is fresh / new theres ALOT of things i hate that it brings to the genra cuz maybe im just too old school..i own the game and played it for about a month 1/2 max out pvp'd and all that but it became dull as hell very quick to ME ..is it the holy trinity?..hell no..is it a great game for new comers that are new to the "new" type of mmo genra?..yea its easy peezy..does it deserve awards yah sure ATM theres nothing thats really out there but its far from being the greats game evar! lol..even the new title such as TSW SWTOR TERRA ARE GAWD AWFULL..but i have my fingers crossed on arche age but still not giveing my hopes up lol
If your answer isn't, "GW2 deserves the critical acclaim", then the answer is, "No, it does not deserve the critical acclaim".
I can not remember winning or losing a single debate on the internet.
Oh this will be good, if it doesn't go the way the avid fans want their will be hell to pay lol.
And to answer the OP, no i don't think Guild Bores 2 deserves the acclaim, the novelty soon wears off and you are left feeling, what is the point.
It has a few good things going for it but it's not the second coming like some over the top fans think.
Of course this is just my take on it but i found it boring as hell, hence the name Guild Bores 2.
I have to agree, i still play GW2...but it feels more like a single player MMO with a multiplayer mode, i really dont feel the MMO aspects of this game at all, i pretty much play solo aside from events 90% of the time i spend in game, at level 50 i find the game very repetitive and boring, i still log in but the only thing i can say I honestly enjoy about this game is the exploration and world, they did a very good job on the world.
But aside from that the combat, story, MMO aspects of GW2 is as you said boring.
See? This is a proper opinion. "I don't feel the mmo aspects of this game at all." That's all proper and valid and you can even elaborate on why this might be so.
Can you folks see how this differs from the statement "This is obviously not a mmo because it does not feel that way to me."
How does it feel like a single player when you are constantly playing along side other players, it's up to you to interact with them or not. That's like saying i'm walking down a street with lots of other people but because i'm not talking to anyone i'm the only one on the street.
How does it feel like a single player when you are constantly playing along side other players, it's up to you to interact with them or not. That's like saying i'm walking down a street with lots of other people but because i'm not talking to anyone i'm the only one on the street.
Always found that part pretty amusing myself. For some reason a lot of people tend to interpret MMO as meaning requires grouping. When really it just means that people are there and you can interact with eachother. How you intereact with them is up to you, and there is no single type of interaction (such as grouping) that defines MMO. Wether or not you choose to interact at all also doesnt change things. The ability to interact is there, you just choose not to use it.
They could completely remove the ability to form parties from thes egames, and they would still be an MMO. Just because there isnt some little thing on your screen that says "Hey. Youre playing with this person!" doesnt mean they arent there.
Oh this will be good, if it doesn't go the way the avid fans want their will be hell to pay lol.
And to answer the OP, no i don't think Guild Bores 2 deserves the acclaim, the novelty soon wears off and you are left feeling, what is the point.
It has a few good things going for it but it's not the second coming like some over the top fans think.
Of course this is just my take on it but i found it boring as hell, hence the name Guild Bores 2.
I have to agree, i still play GW2...but it feels more like a single player MMO with a multiplayer mode, i really dont feel the MMO aspects of this game at all, i pretty much play solo aside from events 90% of the time i spend in game, at level 50 i find the game very repetitive and boring, i still log in but the only thing i can say I honestly enjoy about this game is the exploration and world, they did a very good job on the world.
But aside from that the combat, story, MMO aspects of GW2 is as you said boring.
See? This is a proper opinion. "I don't feel the mmo aspects of this game at all." That's all proper and valid and you can even elaborate on why this might be so.
Can you folks see how this differs from the statement "This is obviously not a mmo because it does not feel that way to me."
How does it feel like a single player when you are constantly playing along side other players, it's up to you to interact with them or not. That's like saying i'm walking down a street with lots of other people but because i'm not talking to anyone i'm the only one on the street.
I'm far from liking GW2 but I agree that I don't understand this no-MMO argument at all. GW2 is definitely an MMO with every required aspect and I saw other players in every single corner of the world. Tbh I would not want back old EQ style MMO where your only option to play was spamming lfg chat until you found a group. I like to have both options - either play in groups or just solo a bit if I feel I want to. GW2 is definitely an MMO.
How does it feel like a single player when you are constantly playing along side other players, it's up to you to interact with them or not. That's like saying i'm walking down a street with lots of other people but because i'm not talking to anyone i'm the only one on the street.
How about because when you interact with them, they don't interact back? Just because you have the capabilities of interaction doesn't mean it is happening. And it is not a one way street, not only do you have to reach out - someone has to respond.
This happens rarely in GW2 and you know it - social people and guilds are the exception to the rule. I'm sure there are thousands of people who have found social people and guilds in the game, but for the hundreds of thousands, it is still a game where people don't interact with each other very much.
Oh this will be good, if it doesn't go the way the avid fans want their will be hell to pay lol.
And to answer the OP, no i don't think Guild Bores 2 deserves the acclaim, the novelty soon wears off and you are left feeling, what is the point.
It has a few good things going for it but it's not the second coming like some over the top fans think.
Of course this is just my take on it but i found it boring as hell, hence the name Guild Bores 2.
I have to agree, i still play GW2...but it feels more like a single player MMO with a multiplayer mode, i really dont feel the MMO aspects of this game at all, i pretty much play solo aside from events 90% of the time i spend in game, at level 50 i find the game very repetitive and boring, i still log in but the only thing i can say I honestly enjoy about this game is the exploration and world, they did a very good job on the world.
But aside from that the combat, story, MMO aspects of GW2 is as you said boring.
See? This is a proper opinion. "I don't feel the mmo aspects of this game at all." That's all proper and valid and you can even elaborate on why this might be so.
Can you folks see how this differs from the statement "This is obviously not a mmo because it does not feel that way to me."
A proper opinion? that doesn't even make sense. what's a proper opinion?
Originally posted by Zorgo So just don't be surprised if some of us ol' timers say things like, 'GW2 isn't an mmorpg' - we aren't 'wrong', we aren't just being 'difficult', we are simply alluding to the fact that at one time, the concept of an 'mmorpg' had a completely and utterly different connotation then what it does today.
Just for information - I'm older than you, and been playing RPGs (pen and paper first) for 30+ years too ;-)
Only difference between us is that I don't wear rose colored nostalgia glasses ;-)
Respect, walk, what did you say? Respect, walk Are you talkin' to me? Are you talkin' to me? - PANTERA at HELLFEST 2023
How does it feel like a single player when you are constantly playing along side other players, it's up to you to interact with them or not. That's like saying i'm walking down a street with lots of other people but because i'm not talking to anyone i'm the only one on the street.
How about because when you interact with them, they don't interact back? Just because you have the capabilities of interaction doesn't mean it is happening. And it is not a one way street, not only do you have to reach out - someone has to respond.
This happens rarely in GW2 and you know it - social people and guilds are the exception to the rule. I'm sure there are thousands of people who have found social people and guilds in the game, but for the hundreds of thousands, it is still a game where people don't interact with each other very much.
So if someone doesn't say hello back to you that makes it a single player game? but if it was a single player game there would be nobody to say hello to in the first place. It is an MMO but it's just not to your tastes.
Oh this will be good, if it doesn't go the way the avid fans want their will be hell to pay lol.
And to answer the OP, no i don't think Guild Bores 2 deserves the acclaim, the novelty soon wears off and you are left feeling, what is the point.
It has a few good things going for it but it's not the second coming like some over the top fans think.
Of course this is just my take on it but i found it boring as hell, hence the name Guild Bores 2.
I have to agree, i still play GW2...but it feels more like a single player MMO with a multiplayer mode, i really dont feel the MMO aspects of this game at all, i pretty much play solo aside from events 90% of the time i spend in game, at level 50 i find the game very repetitive and boring, i still log in but the only thing i can say I honestly enjoy about this game is the exploration and world, they did a very good job on the world.
But aside from that the combat, story, MMO aspects of GW2 is as you said boring.
Ah, you're taking me back to my days of WoW with your description. Remember that game (if you played it)? Solo levelling up to 80 (at the time for me), then you enter the shallow, narrow path of endless dungeons and raids and... well, that's it. It's amazing how shallow and repetitive WoW actually is, moreso now with the skill tree pruning, but still I had years of enjoyment in there. Crazy, huh?
Now I see GW2... they've replaced static quests and hubs with dynamic events and hearts (hearts serving as basically "task hubs" to give those that want it specific areas of focus), they've replaced solo questing and avoiding other players while questing with active, semi-automatic grouping and benefits from randomly joining with others on the same events, they've replaced the competitive PvE in whole with cooperative PvE where it's never a race to tag a mob or tap a mining mode first... basically they've taken all the annoying aspects of PvE and made them significantly better as I personally see it. When I see other people, that's a fun thing, go over there and see what they're doing and help out. WoW... when I saw others then it's either go somewhere else and try and finish your quest later, fight them for mobs, etc.
So, in a nutshell, different opinions are different and remain opinions. You find GW2 repetitive and boring, I find it dynamic and exciting. I found WoW ultimately repetitive and boring, you found it... well wait, I have no idea what you found it if at all. But you see the point I hope. Basically, it's appreciated that you word things such that it's clear you're expressing an opinion. That will always earn far more respect than those that attempt to push their opinions as facts. You've seen them I'm sure... they claim there's no endgame in GW2, I'm finding more endgame than I can get to at the moment. They claim combat is dull, boring, etc. but I find it flowing, dynamic and integrating. To bad so few people express opinions as opinions.
I just realized I probably intended this post to go in a different direction but completely got sidetracked. That happens in game too... so many times I've been going to do something specific, then an event kicks off near me and soon I'm following a chain off in a different direction, totally forgetting what I originally planned to do...
Oh this will be good, if it doesn't go the way the avid fans want their will be hell to pay lol.
And to answer the OP, no i don't think Guild Bores 2 deserves the acclaim, the novelty soon wears off and you are left feeling, what is the point.
It has a few good things going for it but it's not the second coming like some over the top fans think.
Of course this is just my take on it but i found it boring as hell, hence the name Guild Bores 2.
I have to agree, i still play GW2...but it feels more like a single player MMO with a multiplayer mode, i really dont feel the MMO aspects of this game at all, i pretty much play solo aside from events 90% of the time i spend in game, at level 50 i find the game very repetitive and boring, i still log in but the only thing i can say I honestly enjoy about this game is the exploration and world, they did a very good job on the world.
But aside from that the combat, story, MMO aspects of GW2 is as you said boring.
See? This is a proper opinion. "I don't feel the mmo aspects of this game at all." That's all proper and valid and you can even elaborate on why this might be so.
Can you folks see how this differs from the statement "This is obviously not a mmo because it does not feel that way to me."
A proper opinion? that doesn't even make sense. what's a proper opinion?
An opinion which does not masquerade itself as an objective fact, obviously, duh. You can have a "subjective opinion" or "informed opinion" or even "expert opinion." but you can't have "factual" or even "objective" opinions. An opinion is by its definition subjective.
JeuxVideo - Guild Wars 2 isn't a simple sequel, this MMO is a revolution!A small revolution maybe, but it isn't a simple sequel, that much is true.
PC Gamer #207 - groundbreaking world events and mind-blowing class design.Groundbreaking world events, hmmmm, mkay, I'll be lenient on this part. Mind blowing class design due to no trinity? Probably not, the classes are still too unbalanced in PvP to be considdered mindblowing.
VG247 UK - Ridiculous attention to details... shockingly good. Yep.
Quarter to Three - This isn't just a great example of the genre and arguably the Second Coming of MMOs.Uhm? The second coming of MMO's?Let's see in a few years.
Gamer.nl - After years of EverQuest clones the genre finally makes a great leap forward. Yeah, already seeing its influence in other games.
Mostly it's deserved, but it can still be improved upon.
Oh this will be good, if it doesn't go the way the avid fans want their will be hell to pay lol.
And to answer the OP, no i don't think Guild Bores 2 deserves the acclaim, the novelty soon wears off and you are left feeling, what is the point.
It has a few good things going for it but it's not the second coming like some over the top fans think.
Of course this is just my take on it but i found it boring as hell, hence the name Guild Bores 2.
I have to agree, i still play GW2...but it feels more like a single player MMO with a multiplayer mode, i really dont feel the MMO aspects of this game at all, i pretty much play solo aside from events 90% of the time i spend in game, at level 50 i find the game very repetitive and boring, i still log in but the only thing i can say I honestly enjoy about this game is the exploration and world, they did a very good job on the world.
But aside from that the combat, story, MMO aspects of GW2 is as you said boring.
See? This is a proper opinion. "I don't feel the mmo aspects of this game at all." That's all proper and valid and you can even elaborate on why this might be so.
Can you folks see how this differs from the statement "This is obviously not a mmo because it does not feel that way to me."
A proper opinion? that doesn't even make sense. what's a proper opinion?
An opinion which does not masquerade itself as an objective fact, obviously, duh.
I thought it had to start with a capital letter for some reason.
Oh this will be good, if it doesn't go the way the avid fans want their will be hell to pay lol.
And to answer the OP, no i don't think Guild Bores 2 deserves the acclaim, the novelty soon wears off and you are left feeling, what is the point.
It has a few good things going for it but it's not the second coming like some over the top fans think.
Of course this is just my take on it but i found it boring as hell, hence the name Guild Bores 2.
I have to agree, i still play GW2...but it feels more like a single player MMO with a multiplayer mode, i really dont feel the MMO aspects of this game at all, i pretty much play solo aside from events 90% of the time i spend in game, at level 50 i find the game very repetitive and boring, i still log in but the only thing i can say I honestly enjoy about this game is the exploration and world, they did a very good job on the world.
But aside from that the combat, story, MMO aspects of GW2 is as you said boring.
See? This is a proper opinion. "I don't feel the mmo aspects of this game at all." That's all proper and valid and you can even elaborate on why this might be so.
Can you folks see how this differs from the statement "This is obviously not a mmo because it does not feel that way to me."
A proper opinion? that doesn't even make sense. what's a proper opinion?
An opinion which does not masquerade itself as an objective fact, obviously, duh.
but aren't you saying gw2 is not an mmo as if it's a fact?
I'm far from liking GW2 but I agree that I don't understand this no-MMO argument at all. GW2 is definitely an MMO with every required aspect and I saw other players in every single corner of the world. Tbh I would not want back old EQ style MMO where your only option to play was spamming lfg chat until you found a group. I like to have both options - either play in groups or just solo a bit if I feel I want to. GW2 is definitely an MMO.
For me, here is the 'non-mmo' part.
SWToR and GW2 were the first two 'mmo's' I've ever played where the developer put the actual words into my characters mouth.
For me, at this point it ceased to be 'my character' and became 'the dev's character which I was allowed to drive"
For me, this removed the one essential element for me which makes mmo's fun - it isn't my creation anymore. - First games took over my world. Second, games scripted my questlines to the letter - but the final straw, they've now created my character, how he would act and what he would say. All I get to choose any more is what my toon looks like.
Technically it may be an mmo. But it is not what an mmo means to me.
Originally posted by GrayGhost79 Originally posted by ragz45GW2 has been out long enough for the fans to form a solid opinion on the game. How do you feel about the critcal aclaim that the game has gotten from many reviews & game sites? Were they right on the money, or hyped up dramatically? Few examples below, but the list goes on. G4 - Best MMO Game of 2012 JeuxVideo - Guild Wars 2 isn't a simple sequel, this MMO is a revolution! PC Gamer #207 - groundbreaking world events and mind-blowing class design VG247 UK - Ridiculous attention to details... shockingly good Quarter to Three - This isn't just a great example of the genre and arguably the Second Coming of MMOs. Gamer.nl - After years of EverQuest clones the genre finally makes a great leap forward.
I'm far from liking GW2 but I agree that I don't understand this no-MMO argument at all. GW2 is definitely an MMO with every required aspect and I saw other players in every single corner of the world. Tbh I would not want back old EQ style MMO where your only option to play was spamming lfg chat until you found a group. I like to have both options - either play in groups or just solo a bit if I feel I want to. GW2 is definitely an MMO.
For me, here is the 'non-mmo' part.
SWToR and GW2 were the first two 'mmo's' I've ever played where the developer put the actual words into my characters mouth.
For me, at this point it ceased to be 'my character' and became 'the dev's character which I was allowed to drive"
For me, this removed the one essential element for me which makes mmo's fun - First they took over my world. Second, they scripted my questlines - but the final straw, they've now created my character, how he would act and what he would say. All I get to choose any more is what my toon looks like. I don't choose where they go, what they do, how they act, what they say, etc.
Technically it may be an mmo. But it is not what an mmo means to me.
That might make sense if you were talking about the RPG part, and depending on your idea of an RPG. The lack of "control" over your chaacter and the role you are playing can definitely detract from that.
But that has no bearing on MMO. MMO = Massively Multiplayer Online. Has absolutely nothing to do with story, quests, your character, etc.
I'm far from liking GW2 but I agree that I don't understand this no-MMO argument at all. GW2 is definitely an MMO with every required aspect and I saw other players in every single corner of the world. Tbh I would not want back old EQ style MMO where your only option to play was spamming lfg chat until you found a group. I like to have both options - either play in groups or just solo a bit if I feel I want to. GW2 is definitely an MMO.
For me, here is the 'non-mmo' part.
SWToR and GW2 were the first two 'mmo's' I've ever played where the developer put the actual words into my characters mouth.
For me, at this point it ceased to be 'my character' and became 'the dev's character which I was allowed to drive"
For me, this removed the one essential element for me which makes mmo's fun. First they took over my world. Second, they scripted my questlines - but the final straw, they've now created my character, how he would act and what he would say.
Technically it may be an mmo. But it is not what an mmo means to me.
I'm guessing you mean "RPG" as opposed to "MMO"... no matter how you slice it, it's definitely a massive, multiplayer online game. That assumption being that... I know there are a good many players that really do the RPG aspect of it. I forget the server, but there's an unofficial RPG server where players are indeed putting their own words to their characters and getting the full RPG aspect of it themselves. Player driven, interacting with a dynamic world. I just wonder if that's more what you're thinking of or looking for.
It's true, the personal story, although heavily branched, does indeed take you down an ultimate path to the encounter with Zhaitan. But that's not the only story there is.
Comments
No no....but I see your point; I should be more specific.
I understand that you can play someone else's role and it be an rpg. I still think GW2 is an rpg. You are definately playing a role.
I also understand that GW2 is massively multiplayer and online. I in fact understand that GW2 is technically an MMORPG.
It would be easy to say I'm talking about themepark vs. sandbox, but that is not the case. In fact, I almost exclusively play themparks. But I like themeparks where 'I' am the visitor. I go where I want when I want and act how I want to act. Today it feels like they haven't just given us the park, they've given us a stand-in to ride the rides for us. I stopped playing GW2 and SWToR for the same reason. I could not stand any of the 'roles' they chose for me. I hated the voice overs, because, I simply would not have my toon act like that or say those things. Not to mention that the dialogue is tired and cliche and seems to be a product of the games structure rather than informing the games structure.
For example;
In everquest, it was a themepark, but I felt like it was 'my toon' running it. My human sk didn't have the same voice over as every other human sk. Same in WoW believe it or not. You run their quests, but never feel like they are 'imposing' words or personality on your toon. In GW2 - they literally put the words in your mouth. And they are the same words of everyone else of your like build.
In DnD, as you rightly pointed out, you had a storyteller also. But it was interactive, unscripted and flexible. No matter how many times you run a dynamic event in GW2 it is essentially the same. Where I could run a module in DnD with a different character and have it be absolutely nothing like the last experience.
This is what I expected out of mmo's as well. It is what a lot of us expected. It's what developers told us they wanted to do.
This is simply an argument of symantics.
I think we can all agree that GW2 is an mmorpg as the industry and community at large conceive them. We are just saying that what has become of mmorpg's is not what we expected the genre to turn into.
So just don't be surprised if some of us ol' timers say things like, 'GW2 isn't an mmorpg' - we aren't 'wrong', we aren't just being 'difficult', we are simply alluding to the fact that at one time, the concept of an 'mmorpg' had a completely and utterly different connotation then what it does today.
Think of it like the word 'gay'. It used to mean happy, giddy. It doesn't any more. When ol' timers use 'mmorpg' we are using the old definition, because the new definition invokes negative connotations to us.
But let me say this again; it is not a themepark vs. sandbox argument. I love a lot of themeparks. But a themepark doesn't preclude the player as a creative force in the world. SWToR and GW2 have done something I never expected to happen in an mmo.
It used to be, when I looked at the log in screen, I saw a character I customized, I created, I invested in.
Now when I look at a log in screen, I see: bioware's consular or arenanet's warrior. Not mine.
There are those of us who feel this role 'creation' is an essential part of why we play these games. GW2 doesn't have it. Therefore, to us, if it is missing the central element, it ceases to be what we call 'mmorpgs'.
i didnt vote cuz theres no inbetween...yah its a "OK" title ...not really much out there for it to compete with and atm its no doubt the best mmo title out there only cuz its new..fresh..does things different..but is it super-duber-uber -great of a game? ..hell no! maybe its just me ..im geting older and mmos just cant keep my focus anymore IMO as gw2 is fresh / new theres ALOT of things i hate that it brings to the genra cuz maybe im just too old school..i own the game and played it for about a month 1/2 max out pvp'd and all that but it became dull as hell very quick to ME ..is it the holy trinity?..hell no..is it a great game for new comers that are new to the "new" type of mmo genra?..yea its easy peezy..does it deserve awards yah sure ATM theres nothing thats really out there but its far from being the greats game evar! lol..even the new title such as TSW SWTOR TERRA ARE GAWD AWFULL..but i have my fingers crossed on arche age but still not giveing my hopes up lol
Actually it was massively, not massive. Unlike some people like to believe, MMO has no bearing on the size of the world or anything along those lines. It can be a tiny little world, but if it is massively multiplayer, it could still be called an MMO.
MMORPG was a term first used by Richard Garriot to describe Ultima Online. It wasnt the size of the world, or seamless vs zoned, or any such nonsense that brought about the term MMORPG. It was simply the fact that large numbers of players could interact with eachother in the same world.
That is ALL an MMO is. A world in which large amounts of players can interact with eachother online. The rest of it, such as RPG, FPS, etc is of course subject to the specifics of that genre and what features the game has. That part could be more debatable as to what those specifics are, but MMO is not debatable, regardless of how much people enjoy thinking it is. IT wasnt some trendy term that people just randomly started using for the hell of it and nobody knows what it really means. It has a clear meaning & application which it was used for by the person who coined the term, Richard Garriott.
See? This is a proper opinion. "I don't feel the mmo aspects of this game at all." That's all proper and valid and you can even elaborate on why this might be so.
Can you folks see how this differs from the statement "This is obviously not a mmo because it does not feel that way to me."
this type of threads are really getting old. 1 guy doesn't like the game and he has to see if there's someone who shares his opinion.
Yes, the reviews were correct. Mostly everything I've read in the reviews is in the exact shape or form in the game.
And that is no wonder since everything ANET shared with their fans is in the game! Which can't be said for many devs out there nowadays and I think it's really really sad how the suits behind the devs are trying to screw their fans over lately.
Also, I've noticed that every thread which has a poll like that shows that there's more people who like the game than those which don't on this forums.
"Happiness is not a destination. It is a method of life."
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If your answer isn't, "GW2 deserves the critical acclaim", then the answer is, "No, it does not deserve the critical acclaim".
I can not remember winning or losing a single debate on the internet.
How does it feel like a single player when you are constantly playing along side other players, it's up to you to interact with them or not. That's like saying i'm walking down a street with lots of other people but because i'm not talking to anyone i'm the only one on the street.
Always found that part pretty amusing myself. For some reason a lot of people tend to interpret MMO as meaning requires grouping. When really it just means that people are there and you can interact with eachother. How you intereact with them is up to you, and there is no single type of interaction (such as grouping) that defines MMO. Wether or not you choose to interact at all also doesnt change things. The ability to interact is there, you just choose not to use it.
They could completely remove the ability to form parties from thes egames, and they would still be an MMO. Just because there isnt some little thing on your screen that says "Hey. Youre playing with this person!" doesnt mean they arent there.
I'm far from liking GW2 but I agree that I don't understand this no-MMO argument at all. GW2 is definitely an MMO with every required aspect and I saw other players in every single corner of the world. Tbh I would not want back old EQ style MMO where your only option to play was spamming lfg chat until you found a group. I like to have both options - either play in groups or just solo a bit if I feel I want to. GW2 is definitely an MMO.
How about because when you interact with them, they don't interact back? Just because you have the capabilities of interaction doesn't mean it is happening. And it is not a one way street, not only do you have to reach out - someone has to respond.
This happens rarely in GW2 and you know it - social people and guilds are the exception to the rule. I'm sure there are thousands of people who have found social people and guilds in the game, but for the hundreds of thousands, it is still a game where people don't interact with each other very much.
A proper opinion? that doesn't even make sense. what's a proper opinion?
Just for information - I'm older than you, and been playing RPGs (pen and paper first) for 30+ years too ;-)
Only difference between us is that I don't wear rose colored nostalgia glasses ;-)
Respect, walk
Are you talkin' to me? Are you talkin' to me?
- PANTERA at HELLFEST 2023
So if someone doesn't say hello back to you that makes it a single player game? but if it was a single player game there would be nobody to say hello to in the first place. It is an MMO but it's just not to your tastes.
Ah, you're taking me back to my days of WoW with your description. Remember that game (if you played it)? Solo levelling up to 80 (at the time for me), then you enter the shallow, narrow path of endless dungeons and raids and... well, that's it. It's amazing how shallow and repetitive WoW actually is, moreso now with the skill tree pruning, but still I had years of enjoyment in there. Crazy, huh?
Now I see GW2... they've replaced static quests and hubs with dynamic events and hearts (hearts serving as basically "task hubs" to give those that want it specific areas of focus), they've replaced solo questing and avoiding other players while questing with active, semi-automatic grouping and benefits from randomly joining with others on the same events, they've replaced the competitive PvE in whole with cooperative PvE where it's never a race to tag a mob or tap a mining mode first... basically they've taken all the annoying aspects of PvE and made them significantly better as I personally see it. When I see other people, that's a fun thing, go over there and see what they're doing and help out. WoW... when I saw others then it's either go somewhere else and try and finish your quest later, fight them for mobs, etc.
So, in a nutshell, different opinions are different and remain opinions. You find GW2 repetitive and boring, I find it dynamic and exciting. I found WoW ultimately repetitive and boring, you found it... well wait, I have no idea what you found it if at all. But you see the point I hope. Basically, it's appreciated that you word things such that it's clear you're expressing an opinion. That will always earn far more respect than those that attempt to push their opinions as facts. You've seen them I'm sure... they claim there's no endgame in GW2, I'm finding more endgame than I can get to at the moment. They claim combat is dull, boring, etc. but I find it flowing, dynamic and integrating. To bad so few people express opinions as opinions.
I just realized I probably intended this post to go in a different direction but completely got sidetracked. That happens in game too... so many times I've been going to do something specific, then an event kicks off near me and soon I'm following a chain off in a different direction, totally forgetting what I originally planned to do...
Oderint, dum metuant.
Polls like this are never accurate, non players mostly vote negatively
The game is plain awesome, either as a casuall game or a 2nd game, or as a hardcore PvP game.
The game is less attractive for those that need a carrot or more a day
Best MMO experiences : EQ(PvE), DAoC(PvP), WoW(total package) LOTRO (worldfeel) GW2 (Artstyle and animations and worlddesign) SWTOR (Story immersion) TSW (story) ESO (character advancement)
An opinion which does not masquerade itself as an objective fact, obviously, duh. You can have a "subjective opinion" or "informed opinion" or even "expert opinion." but you can't have "factual" or even "objective" opinions. An opinion is by its definition subjective.
I thought it had to start with a capital letter for some reason.
Too much blood in my alchohol perhaps.
Oderint, dum metuant.
but aren't you saying gw2 is not an mmo as if it's a fact?
For me, here is the 'non-mmo' part.
SWToR and GW2 were the first two 'mmo's' I've ever played where the developer put the actual words into my characters mouth.
For me, at this point it ceased to be 'my character' and became 'the dev's character which I was allowed to drive"
For me, this removed the one essential element for me which makes mmo's fun - it isn't my creation anymore. - First games took over my world. Second, games scripted my questlines to the letter - but the final straw, they've now created my character, how he would act and what he would say. All I get to choose any more is what my toon looks like.
Technically it may be an mmo. But it is not what an mmo means to me.
http://www.metacritic.com/game/pc/guild-wars-2
Users 8.2
http://www.mmorpg.com/
Users 8.95
http://www.gamespot.com/guild-wars-2/user-reviews/
Users 9.0
Game is revieuwed with good scores as it is a very good game.
But in these time's people cry about anything and they are so vocal that they outshadow the people that are having tons and tons of fun.
gamer scores means evrything i dont thrust any local review Magazine /Site since Warhammer.
But GW2 is the best mmo out there atm even with 1 major flaw that is free transfers.
But what can you say ? haters gonne hate.
That might make sense if you were talking about the RPG part, and depending on your idea of an RPG. The lack of "control" over your chaacter and the role you are playing can definitely detract from that.
But that has no bearing on MMO. MMO = Massively Multiplayer Online. Has absolutely nothing to do with story, quests, your character, etc.
I'm guessing you mean "RPG" as opposed to "MMO"... no matter how you slice it, it's definitely a massive, multiplayer online game. That assumption being that... I know there are a good many players that really do the RPG aspect of it. I forget the server, but there's an unofficial RPG server where players are indeed putting their own words to their characters and getting the full RPG aspect of it themselves. Player driven, interacting with a dynamic world. I just wonder if that's more what you're thinking of or looking for.
It's true, the personal story, although heavily branched, does indeed take you down an ultimate path to the encounter with Zhaitan. But that's not the only story there is.
Oderint, dum metuant.