By today's standards gw2 is an mmorpg.. it just doesn't really focus on the mmo part very well.
An MMORPG originally meant a lot of people (a massive amount) playing in a persistent world together, doing roleplaying game type stuff. Is gw2's world persistent? Yes and no... there are overflows and stuff which is basically just the districting design. You can't really choose to enter the persistent world, if it throws you into the overflow, you can't force it to let you into the normal persistent world whenever you wish. But yet it does let a lot of people into a zone together, so it is massive, it's just hard to call the world persistent because it is based on districting.
Does it deserve the critical acclaim? Not at all..
It didn't reinvent the wheel, everything people think it did differently, is just the same old in slightly different packaging to make them think it is something completely different.
Obviously everyone will have different opinions, but my rule of thumb is to always ask the most proficient people about a subject, not the mediocre people.
So if you ask the people that played gw2 the most proficiently (did the most with their characters, were more combat effective , etc) what they thought of the game... they would all tell you it was too easy and offered no challenge to keep them playing. If you ask people that aren't that proficient, they are going to think it is challenging and a solid game. But again, people who are the best at something and know the ins and outs and how to navigate a game well, probably have the most credibility as far as insights into the quality of something.
I think it does the MMO part very well. It's the RPG aspect, for me, it's missing out on.
This ^
When it comes to mechanics, GW2 is really a stellar game. And if you look at the reviews, most of them are reviewing it based on the mechanics. The 'MMO' aspect of the game.
However, especially after SWTOR and TSW, a lot of players now expect strong story elements from their MMOs. This is something GW2 tried to do, but they didn't do very well. While they technically delivered on their promises, the implementation of their personal story elements weren't done very well, and it unfortunately detracts from the rest of the game. It's really a shame, because the game has a ton of very rich & well written lore to draw from, but most players never really get that from the game.
Even though TSW's story kinda bugged me (both because you never say a damned thing, and because the plot arcs don't transition very well at all), it was implemented a lot better than what GW2 did.
When it comes to mechanics, GW2 is really a stellar game. And if you look at the reviews, most of them are reviewing it based on the mechanics. The 'MMO' aspect of the game.
However, especially after SWTOR and TSW, a lot of players now expect strong story elements from their MMOs. This is something GW2 tried to do, but they didn't do very well. While they technically delivered on their promises, the implementation of their personal story elements weren't done very well, and it unfortunately detracts from the rest of the game. It's really a shame, because the game has a ton of very rich & well written lore to draw from, but most players never really get that from the game.
Even though TSW's story kinda bugged me (both because you never say a damned thing, and because the plot arcs don't transition very well at all), it was implemented a lot better than what GW2 did.
I actually find the first parts of the personal story, while your dealing with your character past and personal motivations enjoyable.
When the game changes to the dragons story it isn't as enjoable to me.
Currently playing: GW2 Going cardboard starter kit: Ticket to ride, Pandemic, Carcassonne, Dominion, 7 Wonders
By today's standards gw2 is an mmorpg.. it just doesn't really focus on the mmo part very well.
An MMORPG originally meant a lot of people (a massive amount) playing in a persistent world together, doing roleplaying game type stuff. Is gw2's world persistent? Yes and no... there are overflows and stuff which is basically just the districting design. You can't really choose to enter the persistent world, if it throws you into the overflow, you can't force it to let you into the normal persistent world whenever you wish. But yet it does let a lot of people into a zone together, so it is massive, it's just hard to call the world persistent because it is based on districting.
Does it deserve the critical acclaim? Not at all..
It didn't reinvent the wheel, everything people think it did differently, is just the same old in slightly different packaging to make them think it is something completely different.
Obviously everyone will have different opinions, but my rule of thumb is to always ask the most proficient people about a subject, not the mediocre people.
So if you ask the people that played gw2 the most proficiently (did the most with their characters, were more combat effective , etc) what they thought of the game... they would all tell you it was too easy and offered no challenge to keep them playing. If you ask people that aren't that proficient, they are going to think it is challenging and a solid game. But again, people who are the best at something and know the ins and outs and how to navigate a game well, probably have the most credibility as far as insights into the quality of something.
I think it does the MMO part very well. It's the RPG aspect, for me, it's missing out on.
This ^
When it comes to mechanics, GW2 is really a stellar game. And if you look at the reviews, most of them are reviewing it based on the mechanics. The 'MMO' aspect of the game.
However, especially after SWTOR and TSW, a lot of players now expect strong story elements from their MMOs. This is something GW2 tried to do, but they didn't do very well. While they technically delivered on their promises, the implementation of their personal story elements weren't done very well, and it unfortunately detracts from the rest of the game. It's really a shame, because the game has a ton of very rich & well written lore to draw from, but most players never really get that from the game.
Even though TSW's story kinda bugged me (both because you never say a damned thing, and because the plot arcs don't transition very well at all), it was implemented a lot better than what GW2 did.
I agree, For me, the emphasis on story that those two games brought (back?) to the genre were most significant changes made this year. MMORPGs from the start never had the depth of storylines those two had.
They weren't implemented perfectly; many complained they felt they were playing a single-player RPG vs. the massive type. I only felt that at times but the risk taken was worth the it, I think. I had grown so tired of feeling guilty for having absolutely no interest in the story of the MMORPG I was playing for far too long. Usually by level 15 or so of any game I was skimming through the quest dialog just to get to the "Accept" button...a shame when they typically create this beautiful word to inhabit.
When I think back to a game like UO, they did the massive just right. And they also were so closesly tied to the Ultima RPG series that it felt like a natural progression. I think it's still possible to get back to that point plus include the rich story to go along with it. I firmly believe story is a very important element of the genre that has gone overlooked for too long.
Saying GW2 is not a MMORPG...or even a RPG....is the stupiest thing ever....
Some posters here are getting a bit "out of control" bashing on GW2...
...every single day over & over.
And then..not long ago..some claimed "Diablo 3" could be consider a MMO for beeing "online" FFS....
What´s next? A post saying GW2 is not even a game?
I´m fed up with this nonsense ¬¬
The stupidest thing is people who call others opinion stupidest. Disagree all you like but there no need for passive aggressive insults.
With this attitude i doubt anyone is even going to take your posts seriously. I surely didn't.
Halflife... there's a pretty big difference between someone having an opinion, and someone pulling crap out of their arse. What Zzad is talking about isn't bashing an opinion, it's being annoyed by the amount of BS that gets posted on these forums, and I've got to agree with him.
Examples:
Opinion: 'I don't like GW2 because I felt the personal story wasn't done very well.' or 'I though GW2 wasn't a good MMO, because I think MMOs should have endgame raiding'.
BS: 'GW2 isn't an MMO' or 'GW2 is a WoW clone' or 'GW2 has no customization'
See the difference?
It's one thing to get people who don't like the game for one reason or another (which is perfectly fine). Unfortunately we've been getting mostly option #2, which is batantly stating things that have no basis in reality. What Zzad is talking about are things that have very clear definitions. GW2 IS an MMO by any industry accepted definition, and it is an RPG by an industry accepted definition. Therefor it IS an MMORPG. To say otherwise would be stupid, by any stretch of the imagination.
If I stated that 'Call of Duty is the best MMORPG ever made', I wouldn't be someone stating an opinion. I'd be a moron.
Originally posted by Piiritus Well, in my very own very personal opinion GW2 is extremely shallow and mediocre game. Most Western MMOs are better than GW2 imo, even the old ones.
Shallow and mediocre compared to what MMO?
Compared to most Western MMOs as I said. GW2 story is so generic and bad that it feels like written by 12 yo for his/her classmates. As a PvEr I don't care much about PvP but still like to do it occasionally but this zergfest GW2 style isn't even PvP, it's just...zergfest. Honestly after the first area I had seen almost everything. Got my skills by level 5 and that was it. Every zone afterwards was copypaste from previous with an exception of killing bandits in one and washing or feeding cows in another. This is my opinon of course but for me personally GW2 is The Mediocricy.
By today's standards gw2 is an mmorpg.. it just doesn't really focus on the mmo part very well.
An MMORPG originally meant a lot of people (a massive amount) playing in a persistent world together, doing roleplaying game type stuff. Is gw2's world persistent? Yes and no... there are overflows and stuff which is basically just the districting design. You can't really choose to enter the persistent world, if it throws you into the overflow, you can't force it to let you into the normal persistent world whenever you wish. But yet it does let a lot of people into a zone together, so it is massive, it's just hard to call the world persistent because it is based on districting.
Does it deserve the critical acclaim? Not at all..
It didn't reinvent the wheel, everything people think it did differently, is just the same old in slightly different packaging to make them think it is something completely different.
Obviously everyone will have different opinions, but my rule of thumb is to always ask the most proficient people about a subject, not the mediocre people.
So if you ask the people that played gw2 the most proficiently (did the most with their characters, were more combat effective , etc) what they thought of the game... they would all tell you it was too easy and offered no challenge to keep them playing. If you ask people that aren't that proficient, they are going to think it is challenging and a solid game. But again, people who are the best at something and know the ins and outs and how to navigate a game well, probably have the most credibility as far as insights into the quality of something.
I think it does the MMO part very well. It's the RPG aspect, for me, it's missing out on.
What exactly do you mean by that. People have many definitions of what an "RPG" is. For me an RPG has nothing to do with the Stats, Character progression, or shaping your own story/following a set story, but how it handles the combination of all those together. The "Personal Story" of GW2 is no different the the "story" of WoW that you slowly progress through - you don't have to do it (I'm about 10 levels above my current "story" mission), so by that very similarity alone, if GW2's personal story disqualifies it as an MMORPG because it's "Someone else's story", then WoW is not an MMORPG either. In fact, that would eliminate all but a handful of games from being an MMORPG, only sandbox games would be true MMORPGs in that sense (ANY theme park MMORPG has its own story, that's why it's called a "Theme Park")
In contrast, if it's stats, GW2 has plenty of those (10 to be exact), they are just more streamlined and, well, less annoying than in a game like WoW, FFXI, or Everquest. I.E. instead of having to worry about my Strength as a Warrior or Intelligence as a Mage to improve base damage, I just worry about Power. Same for Precision (similar to Dexterity), Vitality, and Toughness. Why do you need 3 different stats that do the same thing, just for different classes?
If it's the Roles of DPS, Tank and Healer - why do we NEED those? I had way more fun working my way through the Ascalon Catacombs dungeon than in any WoW dungeon I ever played in. It was nice to try and outthink the AI than just sit there and soak dmg, deal dmg, or heal. It was freaking hard, that's for sure, but it was fun. And there are still roles, taking a shot at being a Crowd Control Guardian was a ton of fun (Going back to my damage build work a lot better in the end).
Personalization - It may not be as nuts as a game like WoW or Rift when it comes to the # of skills you have or the trees you have (Though with the launch of Pandaria, GW2's Trait System is definitely more robust than WoW's revamped Talent system) and with Skill builds, Gear, Dyes and Traits (not to mention a really in depth character creation system) you character does look very different from anyone else's out there. The problem you have in GW2 (and any MMO) is that there are people that will go out and just look up on the internet to find the most efficient way to play rather than just have fun. With GW2 that's finding the best build for you class (Weapon, skills, Armor and Traits), for WoW is the Gear and Talents based on Role... no different really, just achieved in different ways.
Halflife... there's a pretty big difference between someone having an opinion, and someone pulling crap out of their arse. What Zzad is talking about isn't bashing an opinion, it's being annoyed by the amount of BS that gets posted on these forums, and I've got to agree with him.
Examples:
Opinion: 'I don't like GW2 because I felt the personal story wasn't done very well.' or 'I though GW2 wasn't a good MMO, because I think MMOs should have endgame raiding'.
BS: 'GW2 isn't an MMO' or 'GW2 is a WoW clone' or 'GW2 has no customization'
See the difference?
It's one thing to get people who don't like the game for one reason or another (which is perfectly fine). Unfortunately we've been getting mostly option #2, which is batantly stating things that have no basis in reality. What Zzad is talking about are things that have very clear definitions. GW2 IS an MMO by any industry accepted definition, and it is an RPG by an industry accepted definition. Therefor it IS an MMORPG. To say otherwise would be stupid, by any stretch of the imagination.
If I stated that 'Call of Duty is the best MMORPG ever made', I wouldn't be someone stating an opinion. I'd be a moron.
very much agreed and is why so many of these silly threads go on and on.. no one cares if you don't like GW2 for xyz reasons but like said above when people are just making stuff up to make their claim of why they don't like the game it's pretty ridiculous IE GW2 is not a MMORPG, GW2 has no endgame, GW2 is nothing but a zerg fest, Every single zone is covered in bots.. ect.. or worse when numerous people come to the forums to bash the game who have no clue about the game and obviously have never played
I angered the clerk in a clothing shop today. She asked me what size I was and I said actual, because I am not to scale. I like vending machines 'cause snacks are better when they fall. If I buy a candy bar at a store, oftentimes, I will drop it... so that it achieves its maximum flavor potential. --Mitch Hedberg
When it comes to mechanics, GW2 is really a stellar game. And if you look at the reviews, most of them are reviewing it based on the mechanics. The 'MMO' aspect of the game.
However, especially after SWTOR and TSW, a lot of players now expect strong story elements from their MMOs. This is something GW2 tried to do, but they didn't do very well. While they technically delivered on their promises, the implementation of their personal story elements weren't done very well, and it unfortunately detracts from the rest of the game. It's really a shame, because the game has a ton of very rich & well written lore to draw from, but most players never really get that from the game.
Even though TSW's story kinda bugged me (both because you never say a damned thing, and because the plot arcs don't transition very well at all), it was implemented a lot better than what GW2 did.
I actually find the first parts of the personal story, while your dealing with your character past and personal motivations enjoyable.
When the game changes to the dragons story it isn't as enjoable to me.
Me too, but the problem is that none of those plot elements were ever really followed up or resolved well. This is a problem both GW2 and TSW share. In both games you start to have some really interesting plot developments, and then out of nowhere BAM! next plotline.
In TSW I found myself thinking 'wtf!? what happened to that ultra powerful artifact we just lost? Isn't that a major problem? Is it wreaking havok or wtf is the result of my failing?' Instead I got 'bad agent! okay, next assignment'
In GW2 I found myself thinking 'nice, I found my parents. But wtf actually happened to them? How did I end up where I am?' Instead I got 'found your long lost parents, alright lets go check out some skritt!'
Both games did progress storytelling further in the MMO genre, and GW2 (for the first 30-50 lvls) actually did a fairly good job with the whole 'choose your own adventure' aspect of it all. However, both games failed in delivering believable consequences or conclusions to their storylines. It's not an easy thing to do in an MMO format, but I'm hoping it's something that both games will be able to change in the future.
Saying GW2 is not a MMORPG...or even a RPG....is the stupiest thing ever....
Some posters here are getting a bit "out of control" bashing on GW2...
...every single day over & over.
And then..not long ago..some claimed "Diablo 3" could be consider a MMO for beeing "online" FFS....
What´s next? A post saying GW2 is not even a game?
I´m fed up with this nonsense ¬¬
The stupidest thing is people who call others opinion stupidest. Disagree all you like but there no need for passive aggressive insults.
With this attitude i doubt anyone is even going to take your posts seriously. I surely didn't.
Halflife... there's a pretty big difference between someone having an opinion, and someone pulling crap out of their arse. What Zzad is talking about isn't bashing an opinion, it's being annoyed by the amount of BS that gets posted on these forums, and I've got to agree with him.
Examples:
Opinion: 'I don't like GW2 because I felt the personal story wasn't done very well.' or 'I though GW2 wasn't a good MMO, because I think MMOs should have endgame raiding'.
BS: 'GW2 isn't an MMO' or 'GW2 is a WoW clone' or 'GW2 has no customization'
See the difference?
It's one thing to get people who don't like the game for one reason or another (which is perfectly fine). Unfortunately we've been getting mostly option #2, which is batantly stating things that have no basis in reality. What Zzad is talking about are things that have very clear definitions. GW2 IS an MMO by any industry accepted definition, and it is an RPG by an industry accepted definition. Therefor it IS an MMORPG. To say otherwise would be stupid, by any stretch of the imagination.
If I stated that 'Call of Duty is the best MMORPG ever made', I wouldn't be someone stating an opinion. I'd be a moron.
What ZZAD is talking about that anyone who has an opinion that GW2 is'nt a RPG or is lacking as an RPG MMO is stupid. I am not even going to touch 'whether it is MMO or not part because people are free to interpret MMOS and their definitions in any manner they like.
So nope it is still an opinion an opinion he can gracefully disagree with but he chose not to instead resorted to personal attacks as usual.
Yes I do. Because its meant to appeal to a mass audience. Most intelligent people know that the masses are a homogenous group of sheep. So yea, im not surprised GW2 is getting such a wide critical acclaim.
very much agreed and is why so many of these silly threads go on and on.. no one cares if you don't like GW2 for xyz reasons but like said above when people are just making stuff up to make their claim of why they don't like the game it's pretty ridiculous IE GW2 is not a MMORPG, GW2 has no endgame, GW2 is nothing but a zerg fest, Every single zone is covered in bots.. ect.. or worse when numerous people come to the forums to bash the game who have no clue about the game and obviously have never played
This is actually surprising in a way, coming from you.
I've laid out my reasons why I don't think GW2 meets the MMORPG criteria. I am not telling anyone that it isn't, I'm just sharing my opinion.
But when you come out and call me stupid for having a belief and providing reasons for that belief, well, that is trolling. And that is what you are doing.
Edit: I have played the game and continue to do so, so accusing me of not having played it is absolutely absurd.
very much agreed and is why so many of these silly threads go on and on.. no one cares if you don't like GW2 for xyz reasons but like said above when people are just making stuff up to make their claim of why they don't like the game it's pretty ridiculous IE GW2 is not a MMORPG, GW2 has no endgame, GW2 is nothing but a zerg fest, Every single zone is covered in bots.. ect.. or worse when numerous people come to the forums to bash the game who have no clue about the game and obviously have never played
This is actually surprising in a way, coming from you.
I've laid out my reasons why I don't think GW2 meets the MMORPG criteria. I am not telling anyone that it isn't, I'm just sharing my opinion.
But when you come out and call me stupid for having a belief and providing reasons for that belief, well, that is trolling. And that is what you are doing.
wasn't talking about you per say but in general.. although I do still find your view on what entails a MMORPG to be pretty narrow.. also about your edit that comment wasn't directed at you at all
I angered the clerk in a clothing shop today. She asked me what size I was and I said actual, because I am not to scale. I like vending machines 'cause snacks are better when they fall. If I buy a candy bar at a store, oftentimes, I will drop it... so that it achieves its maximum flavor potential. --Mitch Hedberg
I agree, For me, the emphasis on story that those two games brought (back?) to the genre were most significant changes made this year. MMORPGs from the start never had the depth of storylines those two had.
They weren't implemented perfectly; many complained they felt they were playing a single-player RPG vs. the massive type. I only felt that at times but the risk taken was worth the it, I think. I had grown so tired of feeling guilty for having absolutely no interest in the story of the MMORPG I was playing for far too long. Usually by level 15 or so of any game I was skimming through the quest dialog just to get to the "Accept" button...a shame when they typically create this beautiful word to inhabit.
When I think back to a game like UO, they did the massive just right. And they also were so closesly tied to the Ultima RPG series that it felt like a natural progression. I think it's still possible to get back to that point plus include the rich story to go along with it. I firmly believe story is a very important element of the genre that has gone overlooked for too long.
Completely agree.
However, I think part of the problem is that both games are trying to present story from a single-player mindset. As such both games' storylines get compared to SRPGs, which have their entire budget devoted to the story (so obviously the stories are going to be better done). Furthermore SRPGs can have a very clear beginning & ending. MMOs can't really do this, because the whole point is that the game is supposed to never end.
Because of this I'd rather MMOs start pushing story in a different way. You don't have to be the 'big hero' that saves the day. I like how TSW made you just a cog in the machine, but it was still interesting. I think having more stories that help explain the world around you is the way to go. It's a shame, because GW1 did that very well, but they kinda fell short on that in GW2. As a result a lot of the lore & backstory gets lost behind a story that feels fairly contrived by the end.
Wooden Potatoes actually talks about this a lot in his videos (and actually criticized the personal story fairly heavily). One of the really unfortunate things in GW2's case is that the personal story distracts from the game's lore. There's a lot of hidden bits of lore out in the world that most players never see, that seem to add a lot more to the story of the game than the personal story ever does =/.
very much agreed and is why so many of these silly threads go on and on.. no one cares if you don't like GW2 for xyz reasons but like said above when people are just making stuff up to make their claim of why they don't like the game it's pretty ridiculous IE GW2 is not a MMORPG, GW2 has no endgame, GW2 is nothing but a zerg fest, Every single zone is covered in bots.. ect.. or worse when numerous people come to the forums to bash the game who have no clue about the game and obviously have never played
And no one cares if you like the game for XYZ reason. So why stating your love for the game day in and day out, in hundreds of posts everyday is more imprtant than those who dislike it? this is not a fan site but an open forum for discussion where anyone can say good or bad as long as he or she is not resorting to personal attacks.
I like the game and play it as a casual gamer and it fits my time table but you will never see me white knghting for GW2 every day. Someone said something bad about GW2, and my entire world came crashing down around me. That is how you people make it look around here.
wasn't talking about you per say but in general.. although I do still find your view on what entails a MMO to be pretty narrow
an MMO or MMORPG? See, GW2 is a great MMO. Just like APB is a great MMO. I am not disputing that. But these games are different from what I consider MMORPGs. There is nothing wrong with that, they are just different games. The emphasis is more on action and less on character growth. As someone pointed out earlier in the thread, you don't have an option to actually play your character. All your dialogue is pretty much scripted already with little input aside from the occasional faction or strategy choice (from what I have seen). What if I don't like those choices my character said? Too bad. What if I don't like the skills that have been assigned to me? Too bad. See, there is very little choice in what you can do to customize your character.
This is all fine and dandy but there are a lot of people who are saying they feel this same detachment from the game and their character. I am not alone. I think this is one of the big reasons why. Open your eyes a little. I know you have invested almost five thousand posts into this game, but maybe, just maybe others see it different.
very much agreed and is why so many of these silly threads go on and on.. no one cares if you don't like GW2 for xyz reasons but like said above when people are just making stuff up to make their claim of why they don't like the game it's pretty ridiculous IE GW2 is not a MMORPG, GW2 has no endgame, GW2 is nothing but a zerg fest, Every single zone is covered in bots.. ect.. or worse when numerous people come to the forums to bash the game who have no clue about the game and obviously have never played
And no one cares if you like the game for XYZ reason. So why stating your love for the game day in and day out, in hundreds of posts everyday is more imprtant than those who dislike it? this is not a fan site but an open forum for discussion where anyone can say good or bad as long as he or she is not resorting to personal attacks.
I like the game and play it as a casual gamer and it fits my time table but you will never see me white knghting for GW2 every day. Someone said something bad about GW2, and my entire world came crashing down around me. That is how you people make it look around here.
show me where i'm doing this? all i do most of the time is get in discussions with people who make outrageous claims like said above.. game is noT a MMO,, game has zero endgame, pvp is nothing but a zergfest.. these are all not opinions about the game but straight up lies and misinformation.
I angered the clerk in a clothing shop today. She asked me what size I was and I said actual, because I am not to scale. I like vending machines 'cause snacks are better when they fall. If I buy a candy bar at a store, oftentimes, I will drop it... so that it achieves its maximum flavor potential. --Mitch Hedberg
wasn't talking about you per say but in general.. although I do still find your view on what entails a MMO to be pretty narrow
an MMO or MMORPG? See, GW2 is a great MMO. Just like APB is a great MMO. I am not disputing that. But these games are different from what I consider MMORPGs. There is nothing wrong with that, they are just different games. The emphasis is more on action and less on character growth. As someone pointed out earlier in the thread, you don't have an option to actually play your character. All your dialogue is pretty much scripted already with little input aside from the occasional faction or strategy choice (from what I have seen). What if I don't like those choices my character said? Too bad. What if I don't like the skills that have been assigned to me? Too bad. See, there is very little choice in what you can do to customize your character.
This is all fine and dandy but there are a lot of people who are saying they feel this same detachment from the game and their character. I am not alone. I think this is one of the big reasons why. Open your eyes a little. I know you have invested almost five thousand posts into this game, but maybe, just maybe others see it different.
you are basically making up your own definition of what a RPG is though.. which is fine you are entitiled to do so but not sure really what the point of it is.. by all industry standards the game is a MMORPG
I angered the clerk in a clothing shop today. She asked me what size I was and I said actual, because I am not to scale. I like vending machines 'cause snacks are better when they fall. If I buy a candy bar at a store, oftentimes, I will drop it... so that it achieves its maximum flavor potential. --Mitch Hedberg
very much agreed and is why so many of these silly threads go on and on.. no one cares if you don't like GW2 for xyz reasons but like said above when people are just making stuff up to make their claim of why they don't like the game it's pretty ridiculous IE GW2 is not a MMORPG, GW2 has no endgame, GW2 is nothing but a zerg fest, Every single zone is covered in bots.. ect.. or worse when numerous people come to the forums to bash the game who have no clue about the game and obviously have never played
And no one cares if you like the game for XYZ reason. So why stating your love for the game day in and day out, in hundreds of posts everyday is more imprtant than those who dislike it? this is not a fan site but an open forum for discussion where anyone can say good or bad as long as he or she is not resorting to personal attacks.
I like the game and play it as a casual gamer and it fits my time table but you will never see me white knghting for GW2 every day. Someone said something bad about GW2, and my entire world came crashing down around me. That is how you people make it look around here.
show me where i'm doing this? all i do most of the time is get in discussions with people who make outrageous claims like said above.. game is no a MMO,, game has zero endgame, pvp is nothing but a zergfest.. these are all not opinions about the game but straight up lies and misinformation.
Let us see... MMO has no definition set in stone atleast not that i know of. it is an ever changing and ever evolving medium sopeople can interpret MMo in any manner they like. The day there isa definition of MMO which is universally accepted maybe i will join you too.
Can GW2 be a zergfest? indeed. I have seen it happening in PVP and PVE too many times. people rez spawning and zerging events. Again matter of opinion and personal experince.
Game has zero endgame ofcourse GW2 has end game what they mean is that they don't like what it offers so yes that is BS. but rest is sitll an opinion not some facts.
very much agreed and is why so many of these silly threads go on and on.. no one cares if you don't like GW2 for xyz reasons but like said above when people are just making stuff up to make their claim of why they don't like the game it's pretty ridiculous IE GW2 is not a MMORPG, GW2 has no endgame, GW2 is nothing but a zerg fest, Every single zone is covered in bots.. ect.. or worse when numerous people come to the forums to bash the game who have no clue about the game and obviously have never played
This is actually surprising in a way, coming from you.
I've laid out my reasons why I don't think GW2 meets the MMORPG criteria. I am not telling anyone that it isn't, I'm just sharing my opinion.
But when you come out and call me stupid for having a belief and providing reasons for that belief, well, that is trolling. And that is what you are doing.
wasn't talking about you per say but in general.. although I do still find your view on what entails a MMORPG to be pretty narrow.. also about your edit that comment wasn't directed at you at all
And mine is hollow. And of course now, it's also the stupidest thing. So now having said I think GW2 barely qualifies as an RPG, and I've also said why. Things like the lack of character continuity, the fact that the game feels like separate sub games under a single title, the fact that while there is leveling and progression, it's either diminished or outright pointless depending on what you are doing at that given time all go against what an RPG is to me. These are valid reasons why I feel this game doesn't fit as an RPG, it goes against what I want to do in an RPG.
After many people have expressed their thoughts and given their reasons why, those who did are are told to stop posting, they are called Narrow, Closed Minded, Stupid, ignorant and the list goes on all for criticizing GW2 regardless of their validity or ability to back their statements.
And then after implying that the critics of GW2 are among the above groups, you have to sit there and wonder why these "silly" posts keep emerging? I find that amazing in and of itself.
wasn't talking about you per say but in general.. although I do still find your view on what entails a MMO to be pretty narrow
an MMO or MMORPG? See, GW2 is a great MMO. Just like APB is a great MMO. I am not disputing that. But these games are different from what I consider MMORPGs. There is nothing wrong with that, they are just different games. The emphasis is more on action and less on character growth. As someone pointed out earlier in the thread, you don't have an option to actually play your character. All your dialogue is pretty much scripted already with little input aside from the occasional faction or strategy choice (from what I have seen). What if I don't like those choices my character said? Too bad. What if I don't like the skills that have been assigned to me? Too bad. See, there is very little choice in what you can do to customize your character.
This is all fine and dandy but there are a lot of people who are saying they feel this same detachment from the game and their character. I am not alone. I think this is one of the big reasons why. Open your eyes a little. I know you have invested almost five thousand posts into this game, but maybe, just maybe others see it different.
you are basically making up your own definition of what a RPG is though.. which is fine you are entitiled to do so but not sure really what the point of it is.. by all industry standards the game is a MMORPG
MMORPG, by industry standards, has a very very different meaning from what it did twelve years ago. The industry can call it whatever they want.
At what point does something stop being something it was? Is there a line? Once that line is crossed, does it in fact no longer remain that thing but in name only?
And if there are still some of those old things around, isn't it foolish to keep calling this new thing the same when it in fact has become so very different?
Let us see... MMO has no definition set in stone atleast not that i know of. it is an ever changing and ever evolving medium sopeople can interpret MMo in any manner they like. The day there isa definition of MMO which is universally accepted maybe i will join you too.
Can GW2 be a zergfest? indeed. I have seen it happening in PVP and PVE too many times. people rez spawning and zerging events. Again matter of opinion and personal experince.
Game has zero endgame ofcourse GW2 has end game what they mean is that they don't like what it offers so yes that is BS. but rest is sitll an opinion not some facts.
what you are saying above is not mass generalization and lies and not the issue I have with many of these threads because they don't state what you say above all they say is GW2 pvp is nothing but a zergfest, game has zero engame, mobs don't use abilities, bots have overrun every single zone, WvW has no relics... what you posted above is an opinion but if you post it like I just said it that is a lie and misinformation.. not sure how you can't differentiate between the two
I angered the clerk in a clothing shop today. She asked me what size I was and I said actual, because I am not to scale. I like vending machines 'cause snacks are better when they fall. If I buy a candy bar at a store, oftentimes, I will drop it... so that it achieves its maximum flavor potential. --Mitch Hedberg
What ZZAD is talking about that anyone who has an opinion that GW2 is'nt a RPG or is lacking as an RPG MMO is stupid. I am not even going to touch 'whether it is MMO or not part because people are free to interpret MMOS and their definitions in any manner they like.
So nope it is still an opinion an opinion he can gracefully disagree with but he chose not to instead resorted to personal attacks as usual.
That's not an opinion though.
Saying 'GW2 isn't an RPG' is just as stupid as someone saying 'CoD isn't an FPS'. GW2, whether you like it or not, IS a role playing game. It's a game, and you are playing a role in that game. By the very definition of what makes a game considered an RPG, GW2 is an RPG. Saying differently isn't an opinion, it's a blatant lie.
That's the problem when you confuse the difference between opinion and fact. These terms 'MMO' and 'RPG' have very specific definitions. 'MMO' stands for 'Massive, Multiplayer, Online. 'RPG' stands for 'Role Playing Game. Put them together, and you have 'Massively, Multiplayer, Online, Role-Playing Game.
Is GW2 Massive? Yes. It has 100s of thousands of players all playing the same game.
Is GW2 Multiplayers? Yes. You play with other people.
Is GW2 Online? Yes. You play it over the internet.
Is GW2 Role-Playing? Yes. You are assuming the identity of another character.
Is GW2 a Game? Yes. You are playing with a set of mechanics to achieve certain 'goals'.
I really shouldn't have to explain this in such detail. You do realise the difference between an opinion & a fact, yes?
Opinion: a belief or judgment that rests on grounds insufficient to produce complete certainty.
Fact: a truth verifiable from experience or observation.
In order for something to be considered an opinion, it can't have an assumed certainty (as is made clear by the above definition). Saying 'GW2 is not an RPG' assumes, with certainty, that the game doesn't fit a specific definition. As such it goes counter to the very definition of what makes an opinion, an opinion.
Edit: If you can find a source, that applies to gaming, in which the terms 'MMO' or 'RPG' don't stand for 'Massive, Multiplayer, Online' or 'Role-Playing Game', then I'll concede my point. Until then, they are very clear acronyms.
GW2 was the ultimate attempt to evolve the industry standard themepark model. It made no attempt to remake or reinvent old school mmorpg concepts. This is why I can not support it nor stand playing it.
Reviews reflect the money thrown at them as usual. If a game is playable and has high advertising money it seems to get an amazing score. This isn't likely to change.
I place GW2 review scores right along side the credibility of Swtor review scores.
What ZZAD is talking about that anyone who has an opinion that GW2 is'nt a RPG or is lacking as an RPG MMO is stupid. I am not even going to touch 'whether it is MMO or not part because people are free to interpret MMOS and their definitions in any manner they like.
So nope it is still an opinion an opinion he can gracefully disagree with but he chose not to instead resorted to personal attacks as usual.
That's not an opinion though.
Saying 'GW2 isn't an RPG' is just as stupid as someone saying 'CoD isn't an FPS'. GW2, whether you like it or not, IS a role playing game. It's a game, and you are playing a role in that game. By the very definition of what makes a game considered an RPG, GW2 is an RPG. Saying differently isn't an opinion, it's a blatant lie.
That's the problem when you confuse the difference between opinion and fact. These terms 'MMO' and 'RPG' have very specific definitions. 'MMO' stands for 'Massive, Multiplayer, Online. 'RPG' stands for 'Role Playing Game. Put them together, and you have 'Massively, Multiplayer, Online, Role-Playing Game.
Is GW2 Massive? Yes. It has 100s of thousands of players all playing the same game.
Is GW2 Multiplayers? Yes. You play with other people.
Is GW2 Online? Yes. You play it over the internet.
Is GW2 Role-Playing? Yes. You are assuming the identity of another character.
Is GW2 a Game? Yes. You are playing with a set of mechanics to achieve certain 'goals'.
I really shouldn't have to explain this in such detail. You do realise the difference between an opinion & a fact, yes?
Opinion: a belief or judgment that rests on grounds insufficient to produce complete certainty.
Fact: a truth verifiable from experience or observation.
In order for something to be considered an opinion, it can't have an assumed certainty (as is made clear by the above definition). Saying 'GW2 is not an RPG' assumes, with certainty, that the game doesn't fit a specific definition. As such it goes counter to the very definition of what makes an opinion, an opinion.
You can repeat it as many times as you like even though people have backed up their opinion with proper and elaborate reasoning.
On what established criteria of MMORPG definition are you calling their opinions stupid? it is not some scientficaly proven fact which can not be refuted by merely giving an opinion.
Is there some univeraly accepted definition of MMOS and RPG which are set in stone and hence not opened to difference of opinions? if yes please feel free to show it to me.
There is no factual definition of MMOS, i never came across one.
Comments
This ^
When it comes to mechanics, GW2 is really a stellar game. And if you look at the reviews, most of them are reviewing it based on the mechanics. The 'MMO' aspect of the game.
However, especially after SWTOR and TSW, a lot of players now expect strong story elements from their MMOs. This is something GW2 tried to do, but they didn't do very well. While they technically delivered on their promises, the implementation of their personal story elements weren't done very well, and it unfortunately detracts from the rest of the game. It's really a shame, because the game has a ton of very rich & well written lore to draw from, but most players never really get that from the game.
Even though TSW's story kinda bugged me (both because you never say a damned thing, and because the plot arcs don't transition very well at all), it was implemented a lot better than what GW2 did.
I actually find the first parts of the personal story, while your dealing with your character past and personal motivations enjoyable.
When the game changes to the dragons story it isn't as enjoable to me.
Currently playing: GW2
Going cardboard starter kit: Ticket to ride, Pandemic, Carcassonne, Dominion, 7 Wonders
I agree, For me, the emphasis on story that those two games brought (back?) to the genre were most significant changes made this year. MMORPGs from the start never had the depth of storylines those two had.
They weren't implemented perfectly; many complained they felt they were playing a single-player RPG vs. the massive type. I only felt that at times but the risk taken was worth the it, I think. I had grown so tired of feeling guilty for having absolutely no interest in the story of the MMORPG I was playing for far too long. Usually by level 15 or so of any game I was skimming through the quest dialog just to get to the "Accept" button...a shame when they typically create this beautiful word to inhabit.
When I think back to a game like UO, they did the massive just right. And they also were so closesly tied to the Ultima RPG series that it felt like a natural progression. I think it's still possible to get back to that point plus include the rich story to go along with it. I firmly believe story is a very important element of the genre that has gone overlooked for too long.
Halflife... there's a pretty big difference between someone having an opinion, and someone pulling crap out of their arse. What Zzad is talking about isn't bashing an opinion, it's being annoyed by the amount of BS that gets posted on these forums, and I've got to agree with him.
Examples:
Opinion: 'I don't like GW2 because I felt the personal story wasn't done very well.' or 'I though GW2 wasn't a good MMO, because I think MMOs should have endgame raiding'.
BS: 'GW2 isn't an MMO' or 'GW2 is a WoW clone' or 'GW2 has no customization'
See the difference?
It's one thing to get people who don't like the game for one reason or another (which is perfectly fine). Unfortunately we've been getting mostly option #2, which is batantly stating things that have no basis in reality. What Zzad is talking about are things that have very clear definitions. GW2 IS an MMO by any industry accepted definition, and it is an RPG by an industry accepted definition. Therefor it IS an MMORPG. To say otherwise would be stupid, by any stretch of the imagination.
If I stated that 'Call of Duty is the best MMORPG ever made', I wouldn't be someone stating an opinion. I'd be a moron.
So in fact you never really played the game ?
What exactly do you mean by that. People have many definitions of what an "RPG" is. For me an RPG has nothing to do with the Stats, Character progression, or shaping your own story/following a set story, but how it handles the combination of all those together. The "Personal Story" of GW2 is no different the the "story" of WoW that you slowly progress through - you don't have to do it (I'm about 10 levels above my current "story" mission), so by that very similarity alone, if GW2's personal story disqualifies it as an MMORPG because it's "Someone else's story", then WoW is not an MMORPG either. In fact, that would eliminate all but a handful of games from being an MMORPG, only sandbox games would be true MMORPGs in that sense (ANY theme park MMORPG has its own story, that's why it's called a "Theme Park")
In contrast, if it's stats, GW2 has plenty of those (10 to be exact), they are just more streamlined and, well, less annoying than in a game like WoW, FFXI, or Everquest. I.E. instead of having to worry about my Strength as a Warrior or Intelligence as a Mage to improve base damage, I just worry about Power. Same for Precision (similar to Dexterity), Vitality, and Toughness. Why do you need 3 different stats that do the same thing, just for different classes?
If it's the Roles of DPS, Tank and Healer - why do we NEED those? I had way more fun working my way through the Ascalon Catacombs dungeon than in any WoW dungeon I ever played in. It was nice to try and outthink the AI than just sit there and soak dmg, deal dmg, or heal. It was freaking hard, that's for sure, but it was fun. And there are still roles, taking a shot at being a Crowd Control Guardian was a ton of fun (Going back to my damage build work a lot better in the end).
Personalization - It may not be as nuts as a game like WoW or Rift when it comes to the # of skills you have or the trees you have (Though with the launch of Pandaria, GW2's Trait System is definitely more robust than WoW's revamped Talent system) and with Skill builds, Gear, Dyes and Traits (not to mention a really in depth character creation system) you character does look very different from anyone else's out there. The problem you have in GW2 (and any MMO) is that there are people that will go out and just look up on the internet to find the most efficient way to play rather than just have fun. With GW2 that's finding the best build for you class (Weapon, skills, Armor and Traits), for WoW is the Gear and Talents based on Role... no different really, just achieved in different ways.
So, what makes an MMO an RPG?
very much agreed and is why so many of these silly threads go on and on.. no one cares if you don't like GW2 for xyz reasons but like said above when people are just making stuff up to make their claim of why they don't like the game it's pretty ridiculous IE GW2 is not a MMORPG, GW2 has no endgame, GW2 is nothing but a zerg fest, Every single zone is covered in bots.. ect.. or worse when numerous people come to the forums to bash the game who have no clue about the game and obviously have never played
I angered the clerk in a clothing shop today. She asked me what size I was and I said actual, because I am not to scale. I like vending machines 'cause snacks are better when they fall. If I buy a candy bar at a store, oftentimes, I will drop it... so that it achieves its maximum flavor potential. --Mitch Hedberg
Me too, but the problem is that none of those plot elements were ever really followed up or resolved well. This is a problem both GW2 and TSW share. In both games you start to have some really interesting plot developments, and then out of nowhere BAM! next plotline.
In TSW I found myself thinking 'wtf!? what happened to that ultra powerful artifact we just lost? Isn't that a major problem? Is it wreaking havok or wtf is the result of my failing?' Instead I got 'bad agent! okay, next assignment'
In GW2 I found myself thinking 'nice, I found my parents. But wtf actually happened to them? How did I end up where I am?' Instead I got 'found your long lost parents, alright lets go check out some skritt!'
Both games did progress storytelling further in the MMO genre, and GW2 (for the first 30-50 lvls) actually did a fairly good job with the whole 'choose your own adventure' aspect of it all. However, both games failed in delivering believable consequences or conclusions to their storylines. It's not an easy thing to do in an MMO format, but I'm hoping it's something that both games will be able to change in the future.
What ZZAD is talking about that anyone who has an opinion that GW2 is'nt a RPG or is lacking as an RPG MMO is stupid. I am not even going to touch 'whether it is MMO or not part because people are free to interpret MMOS and their definitions in any manner they like.
So nope it is still an opinion an opinion he can gracefully disagree with but he chose not to instead resorted to personal attacks as usual.
This is actually surprising in a way, coming from you.
I've laid out my reasons why I don't think GW2 meets the MMORPG criteria. I am not telling anyone that it isn't, I'm just sharing my opinion.
But when you come out and call me stupid for having a belief and providing reasons for that belief, well, that is trolling. And that is what you are doing.
Edit: I have played the game and continue to do so, so accusing me of not having played it is absolutely absurd.
wasn't talking about you per say but in general.. although I do still find your view on what entails a MMORPG to be pretty narrow.. also about your edit that comment wasn't directed at you at all
I angered the clerk in a clothing shop today. She asked me what size I was and I said actual, because I am not to scale. I like vending machines 'cause snacks are better when they fall. If I buy a candy bar at a store, oftentimes, I will drop it... so that it achieves its maximum flavor potential. --Mitch Hedberg
Completely agree.
However, I think part of the problem is that both games are trying to present story from a single-player mindset. As such both games' storylines get compared to SRPGs, which have their entire budget devoted to the story (so obviously the stories are going to be better done). Furthermore SRPGs can have a very clear beginning & ending. MMOs can't really do this, because the whole point is that the game is supposed to never end.
Because of this I'd rather MMOs start pushing story in a different way. You don't have to be the 'big hero' that saves the day. I like how TSW made you just a cog in the machine, but it was still interesting. I think having more stories that help explain the world around you is the way to go. It's a shame, because GW1 did that very well, but they kinda fell short on that in GW2. As a result a lot of the lore & backstory gets lost behind a story that feels fairly contrived by the end.
Wooden Potatoes actually talks about this a lot in his videos (and actually criticized the personal story fairly heavily). One of the really unfortunate things in GW2's case is that the personal story distracts from the game's lore. There's a lot of hidden bits of lore out in the world that most players never see, that seem to add a lot more to the story of the game than the personal story ever does =/.
And no one cares if you like the game for XYZ reason. So why stating your love for the game day in and day out, in hundreds of posts everyday is more imprtant than those who dislike it? this is not a fan site but an open forum for discussion where anyone can say good or bad as long as he or she is not resorting to personal attacks.
I like the game and play it as a casual gamer and it fits my time table but you will never see me white knghting for GW2 every day. Someone said something bad about GW2, and my entire world came crashing down around me. That is how you people make it look around here.
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an MMO or MMORPG? See, GW2 is a great MMO. Just like APB is a great MMO. I am not disputing that. But these games are different from what I consider MMORPGs. There is nothing wrong with that, they are just different games. The emphasis is more on action and less on character growth. As someone pointed out earlier in the thread, you don't have an option to actually play your character. All your dialogue is pretty much scripted already with little input aside from the occasional faction or strategy choice (from what I have seen). What if I don't like those choices my character said? Too bad. What if I don't like the skills that have been assigned to me? Too bad. See, there is very little choice in what you can do to customize your character.
This is all fine and dandy but there are a lot of people who are saying they feel this same detachment from the game and their character. I am not alone. I think this is one of the big reasons why. Open your eyes a little. I know you have invested almost five thousand posts into this game, but maybe, just maybe others see it different.
show me where i'm doing this? all i do most of the time is get in discussions with people who make outrageous claims like said above.. game is noT a MMO,, game has zero endgame, pvp is nothing but a zergfest.. these are all not opinions about the game but straight up lies and misinformation.
I angered the clerk in a clothing shop today. She asked me what size I was and I said actual, because I am not to scale. I like vending machines 'cause snacks are better when they fall. If I buy a candy bar at a store, oftentimes, I will drop it... so that it achieves its maximum flavor potential. --Mitch Hedberg
you are basically making up your own definition of what a RPG is though.. which is fine you are entitiled to do so but not sure really what the point of it is.. by all industry standards the game is a MMORPG
I angered the clerk in a clothing shop today. She asked me what size I was and I said actual, because I am not to scale. I like vending machines 'cause snacks are better when they fall. If I buy a candy bar at a store, oftentimes, I will drop it... so that it achieves its maximum flavor potential. --Mitch Hedberg
Let us see... MMO has no definition set in stone atleast not that i know of. it is an ever changing and ever evolving medium sopeople can interpret MMo in any manner they like. The day there isa definition of MMO which is universally accepted maybe i will join you too.
Can GW2 be a zergfest? indeed. I have seen it happening in PVP and PVE too many times. people rez spawning and zerging events. Again matter of opinion and personal experince.
Game has zero endgame ofcourse GW2 has end game what they mean is that they don't like what it offers so yes that is BS. but rest is sitll an opinion not some facts.
And mine is hollow. And of course now, it's also the stupidest thing. So now having said I think GW2 barely qualifies as an RPG, and I've also said why. Things like the lack of character continuity, the fact that the game feels like separate sub games under a single title, the fact that while there is leveling and progression, it's either diminished or outright pointless depending on what you are doing at that given time all go against what an RPG is to me. These are valid reasons why I feel this game doesn't fit as an RPG, it goes against what I want to do in an RPG.
After many people have expressed their thoughts and given their reasons why, those who did are are told to stop posting, they are called Narrow, Closed Minded, Stupid, ignorant and the list goes on all for criticizing GW2 regardless of their validity or ability to back their statements.
And then after implying that the critics of GW2 are among the above groups, you have to sit there and wonder why these "silly" posts keep emerging? I find that amazing in and of itself.
MMORPG, by industry standards, has a very very different meaning from what it did twelve years ago. The industry can call it whatever they want.
At what point does something stop being something it was? Is there a line? Once that line is crossed, does it in fact no longer remain that thing but in name only?
And if there are still some of those old things around, isn't it foolish to keep calling this new thing the same when it in fact has become so very different?
what you are saying above is not mass generalization and lies and not the issue I have with many of these threads because they don't state what you say above all they say is GW2 pvp is nothing but a zergfest, game has zero engame, mobs don't use abilities, bots have overrun every single zone, WvW has no relics... what you posted above is an opinion but if you post it like I just said it that is a lie and misinformation.. not sure how you can't differentiate between the two
I angered the clerk in a clothing shop today. She asked me what size I was and I said actual, because I am not to scale. I like vending machines 'cause snacks are better when they fall. If I buy a candy bar at a store, oftentimes, I will drop it... so that it achieves its maximum flavor potential. --Mitch Hedberg
That's not an opinion though.
Saying 'GW2 isn't an RPG' is just as stupid as someone saying 'CoD isn't an FPS'. GW2, whether you like it or not, IS a role playing game. It's a game, and you are playing a role in that game. By the very definition of what makes a game considered an RPG, GW2 is an RPG. Saying differently isn't an opinion, it's a blatant lie.
That's the problem when you confuse the difference between opinion and fact. These terms 'MMO' and 'RPG' have very specific definitions. 'MMO' stands for 'Massive, Multiplayer, Online. 'RPG' stands for 'Role Playing Game. Put them together, and you have 'Massively, Multiplayer, Online, Role-Playing Game.
Is GW2 Massive? Yes. It has 100s of thousands of players all playing the same game.
Is GW2 Multiplayers? Yes. You play with other people.
Is GW2 Online? Yes. You play it over the internet.
Is GW2 Role-Playing? Yes. You are assuming the identity of another character.
Is GW2 a Game? Yes. You are playing with a set of mechanics to achieve certain 'goals'.
I really shouldn't have to explain this in such detail. You do realise the difference between an opinion & a fact, yes?
Opinion: a belief or judgment that rests on grounds insufficient to produce complete certainty.
Fact: a truth verifiable from experience or observation.
In order for something to be considered an opinion, it can't have an assumed certainty (as is made clear by the above definition). Saying 'GW2 is not an RPG' assumes, with certainty, that the game doesn't fit a specific definition. As such it goes counter to the very definition of what makes an opinion, an opinion.
Edit: If you can find a source, that applies to gaming, in which the terms 'MMO' or 'RPG' don't stand for 'Massive, Multiplayer, Online' or 'Role-Playing Game', then I'll concede my point. Until then, they are very clear acronyms.
GW2 was the ultimate attempt to evolve the industry standard themepark model. It made no attempt to remake or reinvent old school mmorpg concepts. This is why I can not support it nor stand playing it.
Reviews reflect the money thrown at them as usual. If a game is playable and has high advertising money it seems to get an amazing score. This isn't likely to change.
I place GW2 review scores right along side the credibility of Swtor review scores.
You stay sassy!
You can repeat it as many times as you like even though people have backed up their opinion with proper and elaborate reasoning.
On what established criteria of MMORPG definition are you calling their opinions stupid? it is not some scientficaly proven fact which can not be refuted by merely giving an opinion.
Is there some univeraly accepted definition of MMOS and RPG which are set in stone and hence not opened to difference of opinions? if yes please feel free to show it to me.
There is no factual definition of MMOS, i never came across one.