Damn I didn't know GW2 was not a RPG O_O everyday you learn something new, BTW keep it up I read this whole thread and it kept me entertained for about 30 mins at work, only 6 more hours to go.
So yea thank you for teaching me GW2 is not a RPG, some one get Ja rules on the phone.
The truth may be puzzling. It may take some work to grapple with. It may be counterintuitive. It may contradict deeply held prejudices. It may not be consonant with what we desperately want to be true. But our preferences do not determine what's true.
GW2 has been out long enough for the fans to form a solid opinion on the game. How do you feel about the critcal aclaim that the game has gotten from many reviews & game sites? Were they right on the money, or hyped up dramatically? Few examples below, but the list goes on.
G4 - Best MMO Game of 2012 Yes
JeuxVideo - Guild Wars 2 isn't a simple sequel, this MMO is a revolution! It's not a simple sequel but I wouldn't call it a revolution
PC Gamer #207 - groundbreaking world events and mind-blowing class design Not really..
VG247 UK - Ridiculous attention to details... shockingly good Former yes, latter good yes shockingly no, it doesn't deviate much from what i expected
Quarter to Three - This isn't just a great example of the genre and arguably the Second Coming of MMOs. Meh
Gamer.nl - After years of EverQuest clones the genre finally makes a great leap forward. Yes
I have no desire to scour through countless reviews to see if you cherry picked a few with the most hyperbole but the answer seems to lie in between yes and no based on these ones alone.
What he said. If they make wvw more exciting, I will definantly give it in the 9s. Till then, it is a 8.5 to me.
It has stats, gear & levels - its a rpg There are large amounts of players running around - its a mmo.
I can understand people saying planetside isn't a rpg (though it is a mmo)
I can understand, sort of, people saying swtor isn't a mmo (because your on you're own so much), but its still a rpg.
These guys are basicly saying, if your game ain't a EQ / wow clone it ain't a mmorpg.
The stuff about never ending power accumulation makes a game a mmorpg being particularly hilarious, that rules out just about every sandbox for a start.
I guess some people really can't cope without their epic loot fix.
Re story. Yeah the personal story is bobbins in gw2, but hey, you can just ignore it, gw2 allows you to level how the hell you like.
Like I said we need to contact Ja Rule to tell us what we can make of this situation. O_O
/popcorn
please keep it going I am still at work need entertainment!
The truth may be puzzling. It may take some work to grapple with. It may be counterintuitive. It may contradict deeply held prejudices. It may not be consonant with what we desperately want to be true. But our preferences do not determine what's true.
Originally posted by Lypheus She's a 2 weeker, after that it starts to go downhill - that was my feeling anyhow. TBH, I actually got a lot more out of TSW, but really they all feel very much the same and GW2 just doesn't bring much to the table over and above any other mmorpg i've played in the last couple years.
To be honest, I got nothing from TSW. Absolutely nothing at all. Of course... I never played it. That could have something to do with it.
But for me, GW2 is still going strong. The more I play, the more I learn and the better things get. There's enough of an addictive quality with getting a full set of exotics for me that it more than settles my waning need to chase the proverbial carrot, and I haven't even started to pursue legendaries yet. (All my exotics are karma bought or crafter, none bought off the TP.) WvW is becoming more and more engrossing. The PvE is second to none in my book. Or binder. I can't even go back to other MMOs. The archaic combats, trinities, etc... they just fall flat now. Or... as some old friends would say...
What rpg elements does it lack that makes it not an MMORPG?
I guess for some, RPG = endless tiered gear grind as "end game". That was never what a RPG was all about, though, it's just WoW's success which forced "us" into that mindset. All RPG elements are in GW2 - but they aren't force fed to you, which may confuse some players who are used to be leash led to everything they have to do.
A lack of attachment to a character is the main thing, plenty of people run from one zerg fest to another with no context.
But if it makes you feel better to fall back on the, 'people are too dumb to get it', argument, go right ahead. Don't let possible reasons get in the way.
Yep GW2 deserves all the positive press it recieves. Even when I can't play, the people who dislike GW2 keeps the entertainment flowing,
Great value and no doubt that those missing spvp features will be added. Compare that to other games where attemts at structured pvp still sucks after several years/close to a decade.
We dont need casuals in our games!!! Errm... Well we DO need casuals to fund and populate our games - But the games should be all about "hardcore" because: We dont need casuals in our games!!! (repeat ad infinitum)
I can understand why people don't see GW2 as having the rpg part of a mmorpg. It definitely is, it just seems to be quite weak in the rpg department. And no, gear grind is not my definition of progression and advancement. If they staggered their skills through the whole game, along with the traits etc, and added in another ability progression from the WvW, I definitely wouldn't find it so shallow.
Don't even need to add a gear grind, although it is there, just cosmetically, which I find to be underwhelming.
Of course the actual roles kind of damage the rpg aspect for me too. I feel things are too simplified. And no not talking about having a trinity, besides games had more than just 3 roles before. Use to be 4 or 5, just becoming less and less. Guess that is innovation. /sarcasm
It's a good game from a single-player and/or co-op perspective.
It doesn't have any value as mmorpg.
From this year's co-op games, I rate it over Diablo 3, and below Borderlands 2. I haven't played Torchlight 2, but I will eventually before deciding what's the best of them.
My opinion is my own. I respect all other opinions and views equally, but keep in mind that my opinion will always be the best for me. That's why it's my opinion.
the mmorpg reviews almost always tend to be skewed, I don't know if it's simply because they hope to grow the genre or what but I don't ever remember a single mmorpg getting a "bad" review. the writers in this genre bend over backwards and at the end of the day will review horrible games as average so I can't blame GW2 for that.
For the record I voted no but again this is not an indictment of the game but of the shills who are hired to review these games.
By today's standards gw2 is an mmorpg.. it just doesn't really focus on the mmo part very well.
An MMORPG originally meant a lot of people (a massive amount) playing in a persistent world together, doing roleplaying game type stuff. Is gw2's world persistent? Yes and no... there are overflows and stuff which is basically just the districting design. You can't really choose to enter the persistent world, if it throws you into the overflow, you can't force it to let you into the normal persistent world whenever you wish. But yet it does let a lot of people into a zone together, so it is massive, it's just hard to call the world persistent because it is based on districting.
Does it deserve the critical acclaim? Not at all..
It didn't reinvent the wheel, everything people think it did differently, is just the same old in slightly different packaging to make them think it is something completely different.
Obviously everyone will have different opinions, but my rule of thumb is to always ask the most proficient people about a subject, not the mediocre people.
So if you ask the people that played gw2 the most proficiently (did the most with their characters, were more combat effective , etc) what they thought of the game... they would all tell you it was too easy and offered no challenge to keep them playing. If you ask people that aren't that proficient, they are going to think it is challenging and a solid game. But again, people who are the best at something and know the ins and outs and how to navigate a game well, probably have the most credibility as far as insights into the quality of something.
My issue is not that it got high acclaim but just how big of a joke some of the reviews from offical sites have put out. I don't have a problem with people saying its a great game, don't have a problem with people saying that it is the best game out that is your opinion. But when a official review from a site where people review MMO's for their living(or at least spend a large chunk of their time doing it) I expect a more truthful review then the biggest issue I have is having to wait in a queue for WvW. I don't care how great you say the game is there are issues bigger then waiting in a Queue.
In fact there will never ever be a game so great that its largest downfall is queue size, every game has issues with it none are perfect and I do not agree with painting a picture that the game is perfect expect too many people want to play it. That's crap.
My issue is not that it got high acclaim but just how big of a joke some of the reviews from offical sites have put out. I don't have a problem with people saying its a great game, don't have a problem with people saying that it is the best game out that is your opinion. But when a official review from a site where people review MMO's for their living(or at least spend a large chunk of their time doing it) I expect a more truthful review then the biggest issue I have is having to wait in a queue for WvW. I don't care how great you say the game is there are issues bigger then waiting in a Queue.
In fact there will never ever be a game so great that its largest downfall is queue size, every game has issues with it none are perfect and I do not agree with painting a picture that the game is perfect expect too many people want to play it. That's crap.
Journalistic integrity doesn't seem to matter in this day and age... hell you got forbes basically whoring itself as a giant LoL and GW2 advertisement.
It does in terms of introducing and popularizing the Buy 2 Pay model, which both works and doesn't annoy customers as much as any other payment models in existence at the moment (Freemium is clearly bullshit, and subscription is not necessary everyone's cup of tea).
It deserves accolades for being a great game (I firmly believe that).
But being a long-time MMORPG player, this game is not an MMORPG. So to give it any praise as that is simply underserving.
It's like saying "Pulp Fiction" is a brilliant comedy. Brilliant film, yes. Comedy? May have some elements but that hardly makes it one.
It's much more of a mmo than, say, SWTOR. I wonder what exactly defines a mmo in some people's minds, monthly subscription, lol? It's at least as much a mmo as a WoW is, and if you don't consider WoW a mmo, then...
I do consider WoW an MMORPG. GW2 I do not. For me it lacks too many RPG elements to be considered one. Hence, I would call it an MMO but not an MMORPG.
It is an MMORPG, no matter what your opinion is. That is fact.
No, it is not a Sandbox and if yo only call those MMORPG's, then you are missing a huge amount of games.
WoW and GW2 have many traits that are similar, so calling one an MMORPG and the other not, is just your bias and not reality.
It's not a fact that it's an MMORPG. If it is, what scientific law has declared it as such? Just because ANET wants to call it that doesn't mean it's true.
I do not consider it an MMORPG. If I did, I'd probably have to consider Diablo 3 an MMORPG as well since they both share a great deal of similarities.
Let's see if my two cents can help you out Grimal:
In an rpg, I expect to be the role's creator. I think of the backstory, if I'm good, I get it tied in with the game's lore. I choose the words which come out of my character's mouth. I create a persona. It is a role I created.
In GW2, you are the driver of someone elses character. Sure you get to decide whether you are charming or aggressive or whatever, but you don't get to choose there words. Therefore my aggressive norn warrior constantly says aggressive junk I would never say. It is cheesy and cliche and in fact, not very aggressive. This isn't my character - this isn't the role I wanted to play.......I'm driving some developers toon around and I think I'd be better at it.
The concept of mmorpg was brought to me in 1999. EQ gave me a world and I had to create a character which fit into that world. It was my creative energy which was driving my character, not a story line given to me by a dev. Even the presence of a storyline doesn't preclude and rpg - as long as the tools are in place to be the character you want to be in that story. But in GW2 that is not my dude talking in those cut scenes. I wouldn 't say that.
The central difference for a lot of us is this:
An mmorpg: you write the story.
An mmo: you read the story.
No, it is not the standard definition. GW2, in common vernacular is an mmorpg. But to some of us, mmorpgs did not turn out like they were sold to us at the turn of the century. Back then we were promised the worlds would become more our own, more immersive, more tools for unique-ifying our toon; more tools to write our role the way we see fit.
But more and more, we are being given Generic Warrior #1 who is to battle through a story we have written for him.
That technically may be playing a role, but if you are a creative personality, the role isn't your creation.
Simply stated, GW2 does not give you a world in which to write your own character and story. GW2 gives you a world where you can choose one of their characters to read throuogh their stories.
GW2 may be an mmorpg technically - but it is anything but an mmorpg philosophically.
Get used to my segment of the population. We were there when it all began, and I can tell you honestly, what the genre has become is the exact opposite of where the players and developers thought it would go at the beginning. We stood on the earth and thought the moon was in our future. They took us to the bottom of the ocean instead.
You brought up some good points here. TSW used cutscenes but your characater never spoke. Thus, it wasn't imprinting any sort of characteristics on your character; you were, in ways, the Everyman.
GW2, in contrast, scripts every character interaction. Essentially, they are dictating your role regardless of individual input. This combined with the limited character progression and the emphasis on continuous action with little downtime definitely feels like a "consolification" of the MMORPG genre. Their intentional streamlining to help make the genre more accessible, went too far.
I think this attributes to many players feeling little or no attachment to the character and game after its initial impression. What do you think?
By today's standards gw2 is an mmorpg.. it just doesn't really focus on the mmo part very well.
An MMORPG originally meant a lot of people (a massive amount) playing in a persistent world together, doing roleplaying game type stuff. Is gw2's world persistent? Yes and no... there are overflows and stuff which is basically just the districting design. You can't really choose to enter the persistent world, if it throws you into the overflow, you can't force it to let you into the normal persistent world whenever you wish. But yet it does let a lot of people into a zone together, so it is massive, it's just hard to call the world persistent because it is based on districting.
Does it deserve the critical acclaim? Not at all..
It didn't reinvent the wheel, everything people think it did differently, is just the same old in slightly different packaging to make them think it is something completely different.
Obviously everyone will have different opinions, but my rule of thumb is to always ask the most proficient people about a subject, not the mediocre people.
So if you ask the people that played gw2 the most proficiently (did the most with their characters, were more combat effective , etc) what they thought of the game... they would all tell you it was too easy and offered no challenge to keep them playing. If you ask people that aren't that proficient, they are going to think it is challenging and a solid game. But again, people who are the best at something and know the ins and outs and how to navigate a game well, probably have the most credibility as far as insights into the quality of something.
I think it does the MMO part very well. It's the RPG aspect, for me, it's missing out on.
Comments
Damn I didn't know GW2 was not a RPG O_O everyday you learn something new, BTW keep it up I read this whole thread and it kept me entertained for about 30 mins at work, only 6 more hours to go.
So yea thank you for teaching me GW2 is not a RPG, some one get Ja rules on the phone.
http://youtu.be/Mo-ddYhXAZc
The truth may be puzzling. It may take some work to grapple with. It may be counterintuitive. It may contradict deeply held prejudices. It may not be consonant with what we desperately want to be true. But our preferences do not determine what's true.
Carl Sagan-
Saying GW2 is not a MMORPG...or even a RPG....is the stupiest thing ever....
Some posters here are getting a bit "out of control" bashing on GW2...
...every single day over & over.
And then..not long ago..some claimed "Diablo 3" could be consider a MMO for beeing "online" FFS....
What´s next? A post saying GW2 is not even a game?
I´m fed up with this nonsense ¬¬
So there can be negative threads on other MMOs but only positive threads are allowed on GW2?
What he said. If they make wvw more exciting, I will definantly give it in the 9s. Till then, it is a 8.5 to me.
http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/innovation
This isn't really negative, it is actually very interesting. Other threads are.
http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/innovation
It has stats, gear & levels - its a rpg
There are large amounts of players running around - its a mmo.
I can understand people saying planetside isn't a rpg (though it is a mmo)
I can understand, sort of, people saying swtor isn't a mmo (because your on you're own so much), but its still a rpg.
These guys are basicly saying, if your game ain't a EQ / wow clone it ain't a mmorpg.
The stuff about never ending power accumulation makes a game a mmorpg being particularly hilarious, that rules out just about every sandbox for a start.
I guess some people really can't cope without their epic loot fix.
Re story.
Yeah the personal story is bobbins in gw2, but hey, you can just ignore it, gw2 allows you to level how the hell you like.
Like I said we need to contact Ja Rule to tell us what we can make of this situation. O_O
/popcorn
please keep it going I am still at work need entertainment!
The truth may be puzzling. It may take some work to grapple with. It may be counterintuitive. It may contradict deeply held prejudices. It may not be consonant with what we desperately want to be true. But our preferences do not determine what's true.
Carl Sagan-
To be honest, I got nothing from TSW. Absolutely nothing at all. Of course... I never played it. That could have something to do with it.
But for me, GW2 is still going strong. The more I play, the more I learn and the better things get. There's enough of an addictive quality with getting a full set of exotics for me that it more than settles my waning need to chase the proverbial carrot, and I haven't even started to pursue legendaries yet. (All my exotics are karma bought or crafter, none bought off the TP.) WvW is becoming more and more engrossing. The PvE is second to none in my book. Or binder. I can't even go back to other MMOs. The archaic combats, trinities, etc... they just fall flat now. Or... as some old friends would say...
Oderint, dum metuant.
A lack of attachment to a character is the main thing, plenty of people run from one zerg fest to another with no context.
But if it makes you feel better to fall back on the, 'people are too dumb to get it', argument, go right ahead. Don't let possible reasons get in the way.
This looks like a job for....The Riviera Kid!
Great value and no doubt that those missing spvp features will be added. Compare that to other games where attemts at structured pvp still sucks after several years/close to a decade.
We dont need casuals in our games!!! Errm... Well we DO need casuals to fund and populate our games - But the games should be all about "hardcore" because: We dont need casuals in our games!!!
(repeat ad infinitum)
It's a good game but it lacks longevity, Spvp, WvW and my friends list are dying.
Because there's no sense of accomplishment to anything in this "fun" game, but you see, "fun" only lasts so long.
I can understand why people don't see GW2 as having the rpg part of a mmorpg. It definitely is, it just seems to be quite weak in the rpg department. And no, gear grind is not my definition of progression and advancement. If they staggered their skills through the whole game, along with the traits etc, and added in another ability progression from the WvW, I definitely wouldn't find it so shallow.
Don't even need to add a gear grind, although it is there, just cosmetically, which I find to be underwhelming.
Of course the actual roles kind of damage the rpg aspect for me too. I feel things are too simplified. And no not talking about having a trinity, besides games had more than just 3 roles before. Use to be 4 or 5, just becoming less and less. Guess that is innovation. /sarcasm
It's a good game from a single-player and/or co-op perspective.
It doesn't have any value as mmorpg.
From this year's co-op games, I rate it over Diablo 3, and below Borderlands 2. I haven't played Torchlight 2, but I will eventually before deciding what's the best of them.
My opinion is my own. I respect all other opinions and views equally, but keep in mind that my opinion will always be the best for me. That's why it's my opinion.
the mmorpg reviews almost always tend to be skewed, I don't know if it's simply because they hope to grow the genre or what but I don't ever remember a single mmorpg getting a "bad" review. the writers in this genre bend over backwards and at the end of the day will review horrible games as average so I can't blame GW2 for that.
For the record I voted no but again this is not an indictment of the game but of the shills who are hired to review these games.
By today's standards gw2 is an mmorpg.. it just doesn't really focus on the mmo part very well.
An MMORPG originally meant a lot of people (a massive amount) playing in a persistent world together, doing roleplaying game type stuff. Is gw2's world persistent? Yes and no... there are overflows and stuff which is basically just the districting design. You can't really choose to enter the persistent world, if it throws you into the overflow, you can't force it to let you into the normal persistent world whenever you wish. But yet it does let a lot of people into a zone together, so it is massive, it's just hard to call the world persistent because it is based on districting.
Does it deserve the critical acclaim? Not at all..
It didn't reinvent the wheel, everything people think it did differently, is just the same old in slightly different packaging to make them think it is something completely different.
Obviously everyone will have different opinions, but my rule of thumb is to always ask the most proficient people about a subject, not the mediocre people.
So if you ask the people that played gw2 the most proficiently (did the most with their characters, were more combat effective , etc) what they thought of the game... they would all tell you it was too easy and offered no challenge to keep them playing. If you ask people that aren't that proficient, they are going to think it is challenging and a solid game. But again, people who are the best at something and know the ins and outs and how to navigate a game well, probably have the most credibility as far as insights into the quality of something.
My issue is not that it got high acclaim but just how big of a joke some of the reviews from offical sites have put out. I don't have a problem with people saying its a great game, don't have a problem with people saying that it is the best game out that is your opinion. But when a official review from a site where people review MMO's for their living(or at least spend a large chunk of their time doing it) I expect a more truthful review then the biggest issue I have is having to wait in a queue for WvW. I don't care how great you say the game is there are issues bigger then waiting in a Queue.
In fact there will never ever be a game so great that its largest downfall is queue size, every game has issues with it none are perfect and I do not agree with painting a picture that the game is perfect expect too many people want to play it. That's crap.
Journalistic integrity doesn't seem to matter in this day and age... hell you got forbes basically whoring itself as a giant LoL and GW2 advertisement.
It does in terms of introducing and popularizing the Buy 2 Pay model, which both works and doesn't annoy customers as much as any other payment models in existence at the moment (Freemium is clearly bullshit, and subscription is not necessary everyone's cup of tea).
In terms of tech, not a lot of major innovation.
Lol this guy!!!
Every new MMO goes through this. Maybe you need to stop visitng forums for a whie if it bothers you that much.
You brought up some good points here. TSW used cutscenes but your characater never spoke. Thus, it wasn't imprinting any sort of characteristics on your character; you were, in ways, the Everyman.
GW2, in contrast, scripts every character interaction. Essentially, they are dictating your role regardless of individual input. This combined with the limited character progression and the emphasis on continuous action with little downtime definitely feels like a "consolification" of the MMORPG genre. Their intentional streamlining to help make the genre more accessible, went too far.
I think this attributes to many players feeling little or no attachment to the character and game after its initial impression. What do you think?
I think it does the MMO part very well. It's the RPG aspect, for me, it's missing out on.
The stupidest thing is people who call others opinion stupidest. Disagree all you like but there no need for passive aggressive insults.
With this attitude i doubt anyone is even going to take your posts seriously. I surely didn't.