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BadSpock's Hitting Bottom: A Re-Review
BadSpock
Member UncommonPosts: 7,979
First off - want to say that I still think GW2 is a great game for what it is - the quality is high, the fun is worth the price of admission, and I still stand by my original review/op-ed that GW2 is an amazing game.
But I'm just not sure it's for me.
Longevity was always my biggest concern with GW2 - and I've hit that slump.
I know I'll be back, probably often as the business model is perfect for me - the "modern" MMO gamer who hops from game to game and can't stay interested in one thing for too long.
But i've just hit a wall.
-My main is level 77 or 78, and I've been seriously let down.
-Finally did a big dragon fight, Taquatl the Sunless - complete and total failure. Extremely disappointing. Right now it’s pretty much attack dragon -> get feared out of place -> run back and continue spamming.
-Finally got into Orr, 70-75 zone anyways. Extremely disappointing. What I thought/hoped would be a PvE battleground type experience (PvE WvW) is actually in fact just Zerg Merry-Go-Round.
Hop on the train, ride along the zerg from point A to B to C back to A again.
-Halloween event has thus far been extremely disappointing. Candy corn? Who cares, sell it all in TP. Costumes? Don't care. Costume brawl? Not even fun - randomly kicking around LA by Mystic Forge.
Couldn't figure out how to make the damn scanner work / figure it out - not going to cheat and google it. Pointless.
-WvW I have very little interest in. So many complaints of zergs, bugs/broken, lack of any real reason to care, and long wait times.
-sPvP I have very little interest in. Rewards / prestige don't match input. I get a lot of fun out of progression in PvP like in CoD or BF3 or Halo games, haven't found any reason to care about winning/losing in sPvP yet.
-Lost pretty much all interest in crafting, lost all interest in zone completion and grinding Hearts.
-I've run a handful of story mode and explorable mode dungeons. Where are the rewards? Where is the loot? Couple of shitty blues? 10-15 minute corpse hopping bosses? There is no skill/strategy there. And what's it all for, some cool looking cosmetic rewards (and the 10% stat bonus of Exotics?)
-Personal story is a bit of a miss. These "epic" events in the Vigil line are anything but. Apparently a "massive undead siege of Orrians" is 10-15 mobs. The scale and sense of epicness is just pathetic. Limitation of the MMO genre I suppose.
I still get some fun out of toying around with other classes (like right now a Mesmer) but I know if I play for too long I'm going to hit that wall and get bored again in like an hour.
Where's the "dynamic" in the dynamic events?
Where's the point of sPvP / WvW? I get a much better sense of achievement playing Halo or back in UO Factions where taking control of a city/town actually felt like it mattered.
Where is the feeling of accomplishment for doing a great job in a run? It's made me realize I really do miss the Trinity - I hate to say it, but I do. I've always been a Tank/Healer - and I've always strived to be a damn good one too. That was my main feeling of accomplishment beyond just the gear rewards and stat progression - knowing I was good at my job.
Now don't get me wrong - GW2 does some things absolutely great.
1. The combat is fun and exciting, for a while, but the limited skills per Weapon contibutes to getting bored fast. Cooldowns are too long, spend too much time auto-attacking and waiting for cooldowns or being forced to switch to your second set.
I've also grown frustrated for how weak I feel. The pace of combat was so much better at earlier levels. I had this problem MAJOR bad with TOR - fights just take too long for no reason. It doesn't make me feel like a "hero" when I can't cut through swaths of baddies with ease.
Sure, I like having elite/champion/veteran mobs that take a bit of effort to kill. That's fun. But I don't like feeling like I'm hitting with a wet noodle against normal mobs. TOR made this mistake BIG time, and the only MMO where I never felt this way - is WoW.
And yes, I've tried about 6 different trait combinations, weapon combos, etc. On my Guardian at level 77/78 using level 75 Rare weapons, even with the supposed "OP" Greatsword and then Sword/Torch combo. Yes I'm fully Runed 6/6 set w/ Weapon runes, all gear is 75+ blue/green/rare.
The utility skills feel weak. Great for situational help, but I have yet to press ANY button in any class at any level in GW2 where I felt like "Wow, I love this ability it is so freaking cool and awesome."
2. Quality of life features like "Send to Collections" is great. Trading Post from anywhere is superb. No competition for harvesting nodes is splendid. Overflow servers is freak'n brilliant. Dye system and "dye anything anywhere" is amazing. Not quite as great as it'd be with an appearance tab, but the Dye system is awesome.
3. No kill stealing, everyone gets loot, never a bad idea to help another player, cross-profession combos with anyone outside of grouping etc. is awesome and a huge, huge step forward in PvE.
I guess, as sad as it is at the end of the day... I need the carrot. The gameplay is just not sufficiently fun enough to keep me interested without the carrot to chase.
I need the Trinity, I need to have a role I am good at.
I think I'm about done with the MMORPG genre to be honest. I have a feeling I am never going to find a single game I am going to play for months and years on end without breaks.
Maybe it's just me. Maybe I'm just like the rest. I will probably end up like the rest bouncing from game to game, new release to new release like an addict chasing the next fix.
The dream of "the game to stick with" is gone for me.
I've hit MMORPG rock bottom.
This is BadSpock, signing off...
Comments
"We are gathered here today to pay final respects to our honored dead. But it should be noted that this death takes place in the shadow of new life, the sunrise of a new world; a world that our beloved comrade gave his life to protect and nourish. He did not feel this sacrifice a vain or empty one, and we will not debate his profound wisdom at these proceedings. Of my friend, I can only say this: of all the souls I have encountered in my travels, his was the most... human"
I couldn't help it.
Well written review Spock, and I have heard the same from my friend about GW2
i cried .Watch your thoughts; they become words.
Watch your words; they become actions.
Watch your actions; they become habits.
Watch your habits; they become character.
Watch your character; it becomes your destiny.
Lao-Tze
You're not burnt out old bean, it's just not a very good game.
Looks pretty, plays well, essentially soulless.
I want a carrot too, don't be ashamed. Loot is awesome. Getting cool shit is fun.
Cosmetics are not fun.
Dynamic events have been lauded as some kind of great evolution in gameplay.
They are not. Because their inevitable cycling is contradictory.
Rejection of trinity heralded as a revolution in player dynamics.
It is not, because homogeneity is not preferential to diversification.
It does some stuff well obviously. And they sold it well enough. But it's all a bit tedious. Also personal stories suck balls.
Agree. Hit 80 on my toon last night and going through the personal stories just became so tedious. In the end, I actually liked the story less than Tera b/c at least with Tera I wasn't forced to sit through boring instances.
I am 80 but I didn't finish my story as I can't be bothered to. I did 1 dungeon (AC), absolutely hated it and have no interes t at all in doing any others.
This game would work well on a console. But as a PC "RPG", it just doesn't sustain. Throughout my journey to level 80, I had a few WOW moments, but most of those travels felt repetitive and uninspired.
There are a lot of good things that happen early on in the game that seem fresh. But once the newness of these wears off, you are stuck with a very generic experience. I really think there are some great minds at ANET. The problem is there are also a lot of not-so-great ones. And those not-so-great ones got tasked with some of the more important elements (such as core progression, etc).
I might try logging in again a few times within the next few days, but I don't think I will be coming back to this game over and over through the years. I feel that I've seen enough and that trying to go back will just not hold me.
I angered the clerk in a clothing shop today. She asked me what size I was and I said actual, because I am not to scale. I like vending machines 'cause snacks are better when they fall. If I buy a candy bar at a store, oftentimes, I will drop it... so that it achieves its maximum flavor potential. --Mitch Hedberg
Maybe you should switch up your gameplay a bit. Have you tried playing the cash shop? Ive been told that its no different from going to a casino or trading baseball cards. Sounds like a fun change of pace
i kidding here folks. Just trying to lighten the mood.
Spock you busted my balls pretty bad in the past for saying the same things youre saying now. But you know what? Its all good, i did the same thing with swtor and 6 months later publicly ate my hat.
But you know after the dust settles youll have fond memories of what you do enjoy about gw2 and you can revisit anytime without having to put in a credit card number.
Cheer up man, its gonna be fine
I burnt out in the same way. It was so sweet until you hit the bitter aftertaste. It's obvious why this game doesn't have a sub, and that's because hardly anyone would keep playing it past the leveling experience. The strong launch will keep it floating for awhile yet but unless they churn out an expansion quickly those numbers are going to take a serious hit.
I thought I was done with MMOs after GW2. Played a lot of single player and co-op games for a bit. Then I started looking into Rift's expansion and decided to give it a try again since good things are on the way soon. I was pretty shocked though, playing Rift again was like a breath of fresh air after burning out on GW2. Have a year sub with Rift now (because the year deal with free expansion was good value compared to the alternative way of paying).
I'm not suggesting you play Rift .. I'm not trying to fanboi it to death. What I'm saying is that you don't know what you got until it's gone. While GW2 did some things well, it totally ruins the fundamentals that made MMORPG's addictive. It ruins the reason we love the genre in the first place. Give another MMO a try.. I don't even consider GW2 in the same genre as games like WoW, LOTRO, Rift, etc. GW2 is in a new genre called something like MMO-Lite.
All die, so die well.
Good reveiw but it sounds oddly familar from your SWTOR let down.
Pretty sure that wasn't me. Definately don't remember it if it was.
Edit - Ah you didn't mean to quote me I guess because you edited it.
GW2 is amazing value for money and does some things really, really well and there are some great little touches. But it has fk all longevity and fk all draw in terms of "meaningful" interaction in mmo terms. It really is just a big old faceroll with neat little touches.
It is interesting to see people starting to mention Orr more and more, some of us pointed out the short comings within the first week of release (I know, sad bastards) and most shot us down.
I intended it as an mmo to tide me over till Unholy Wars and to run along side it. Even being stuck in on a Friday night (/cry) I can't bring myself to log in.
EDIT: Btw wean yourself off the old carrot and try some of the sandboxes coming up. Probably all be shite but at least it may get you off the gear treadmill for a while
"Come and have a look at what you could have won."
i agree on a lot of your points made and why i made the decision awhile ago to just give up playing it as its just plain out boring to me. Where we are different though is world vs world , as i did that daily and ran a pretty decent gank guild that would do a lot of ninja taking (dolak camps , towers etc). We would imploy strategy like sitting up arrow carts and sometimes farming the zerge for over an hour with like 8 of us until they finally were able to get inside and the system just doesnt reward you at all for doing something great in pvp. Karma and experience is a joke and guild wars 2 left a pretty bitter taste in my mouth on what happens when casual players get their way in an mmorpg .
I doubt ill go back and no one i know through other games are playing it currently or have any plans to go back. Its kinda funny when your guild starts out at over 60 members and slowly but surely they just stop logging into game yet you come to sites like this and the talk is its the savior of the mmo genre and nothing is better than it. This game just wasnt for me either as the lack of rewards for putting in hard work just isnt there and the casuals will bite your head off for asking for any reward at all . Between the rabid fans who attack anyone who posts something negative about the game to the devs who honestly seem like clueless nitwits i think we are going to see more and more posts like this review poping up sooner more than later.
LOL Now your just dreamin
I have 2 80s now and in all honesty, I feel the same way you do. And not just about GW2.
I have always been a fanboi of all games. I revel in new games that come online because I love having choices. But even though GW2 has its problems, it ruined some of the other games for me and I can't go back to them (I tried). And at the same time, I am tired of GW2, so I am stuck wondering if the genre is dead.
At this point, my intuition tells me that anything "themepark" is not going to cut it long-term.
How much money would it cost to create a fully-polished sandbox game a la UO? I think that is about the only thing that will generate long-term buzz any more.
What your saying makes sense, but there are a lot of inherent flaws with a trinity-based, loot progression 'carrot' type of game.
It's sad to see people finding they 'need' that, because it's not sustainable. Think about what's been happening from game-to-game.
Nearly every MMO to have come out since WoW has been made this way. And nearly every last one of them has failed, and become stale at an increasing rate. Why? Because the design is inherently flawed. Loot grinds are becoming faster & faster, and players are plowing through them faster & faster. It's because you are replaying the same treadmill over and over. So while people are getting more efficient at grinding, the games are also getting more streamlined, because players don't want to spend as much time grinding.
And then you have the trinity. It's like a childhood home. Very comfortable, but you can't really stick with it. And the longer a game is out? The harder it is to do earlier content, because most people will always play DPS and don't want to tank or heal. This also leads to content become stale, obscelete, or unplayable at an increasing rate.
GW2 is one of the only games to successfully circumvent all these problems to this day. There are still new players jumping into the game, having a blast, and doing so w/ out much trouble enjoying the content. There's enough incentives for people to go back, so that there are always people in the zones. It may not be the zergfest of launch, but it's still pretty populated.
The sadest part of what you & Spock are saying, is that the old model has glaring problems that we've seen get more & more noticeable since vanilla WoW. Problems that are built into the very foundation of its design. It's unsustainable. I too enjoyed the old style of gameplay, but I also know that if we are ever to get a new MMO we plan to enjoy for more than a few months, it can't be based around content grinding. It's just that simple.
Maybe you guys just need a break. Some time to play other genres and see how different games can be, and how there can be different incentives to playing games than just loot. Loot is fun, but it doesn't have much longevity anymore.
I'd agree that more 'sandboxy' features are the way to go.
However I think that a lot of people have it wrong, when they are looking backwards to get this answer. As much as I enjoyed UO, I don't think that's going to 'save' this genre. I'd still play it, but I wouldn't be surprised if a new UO just leads to yet more complaining, and people making the excuse 'well, this one just wasn't made as good as the original', regardless of whether or not that would be actually true.
What this genre needs is more forward-thinking. Stop trying to recreate the games you remember loving. What players actually want is a new experience. Recapturing an old one, at best, will usually just taint the old experience. There's too many preconceptions, and too much nostalgia there to live up to.
We need a new game, something with minimal expectations attached to, that allows for an environment in which players can create their own fun. Easier said than done, though.
very very much agreed +1
I angered the clerk in a clothing shop today. She asked me what size I was and I said actual, because I am not to scale. I like vending machines 'cause snacks are better when they fall. If I buy a candy bar at a store, oftentimes, I will drop it... so that it achieves its maximum flavor potential. --Mitch Hedberg
As a half-human, I'm a creature of habit... half the time.
I guess I just keep getting my hopes up and keep getting them dashed. Figure a Vulcan would learn from his mistakes?
I think I am going to re-invest myself into console gaming.
Lots of good stuff coming up, Halo 4, new CoD, I have never played any of the Assassin's Creed games, might pick a couple of those up... never finished Gears 2 or bought Gears 3....
Haven't picked up Skyrim DLC yet, new DLC coming out, I'm too jaded/bitter to pick up any Mass Effect 3 DLC but the multiplayer was a blast.
I'm sure I'll continue to check out new MMOs too - have some interest in Neverwinter (especially the Foundry for content creation!) as well as Elder Scrolls Online, Archeage, maybe even Final Fantasy XIV: A Realm Reborn.
And I'm sure I'll be back to GW2 from time to time. I'm sure I'll get another "let's play GW2!!" kick and try and finish up my personal story, check out some more dungeons... and I'm sure the game will improve as time goes on and very thankfully because of the B2P model I can just hop right back in.
/age of 172 hours. Just over 7 days /played.
Good write-up.
I have been playing since right after launch and I have talked to maybe five people total. I do not get the mmo feel at all in GW2. Crafting in mmo's has always been 80% of my gameplay, and I find the crafting in GW2 to be very very lackluster. It is not a bad game, but it isn't for me at all.
i still don't see how you guys play MMOs like this.. i don't care if the game mechanics force talking or not.. without a guild or a good list of friends any MMO would get boring to me after awhile.
I angered the clerk in a clothing shop today. She asked me what size I was and I said actual, because I am not to scale. I like vending machines 'cause snacks are better when they fall. If I buy a candy bar at a store, oftentimes, I will drop it... so that it achieves its maximum flavor potential. --Mitch Hedberg
the fact that you've only talked to five people is your fault not the games, i joined a guild and used my social skills to actually interact with the people in the guild, i don't need a game to tell me how to talk to human beings.
sorry dont agree with you at all.