Originally posted by muffins89yeah sounds like they caved.
They have no choice but to cave in, the only way they are going to keep people playing is through end level item grinding. The problem is no matter what new dungeons they bring in they are always going to be just a zerg rez fest.
Now correct me if im wrong, But should not their primary goal be to get people to buy from the Gem Store? Not seeing how setting vertical progression of gear outside the store is gona help that goal.
Uh, I think making the game fun should be their primary goal?
Business perspective mate.
I know people would like to think they are only out to make the perfect 'fairy land' but they are in industry to make money primarily.
Not pissing your customers off is good business. Besides, some developers are genuinely interested in making good games. Developers like CDPRed and Valve, for example, or (I think) ANet. Do you know what the three have in common? Their games have been financially successful.
ANet also made tons of free content already and these conspiracy theories about their cash-grabbing plans have gotten old. If they put a pink whale hat in their cash shop in this update, some people would scream "cash grab" no matter how many free dungeons are released with it.
They do know planetside2 is coming out right? They do realise there's a large % of their players that only WvW apart from when they are forced to pve to raise cash? They do realise planetside 2 you agent forced to pve, because there is none, you can shock horror see your opponents names to build rivalry and no fluffy kittens diein the process. Do they also realise if pure a hardcore pve the, they will have to do lots lots more than this to drag you away from wow / rift?
They do (have blinders on). What I'm waiting for is to see if the armor sets they speak of for this dungeon are like the legendaries, only slightly better then the Exotics. If so this will end this nonsense right off the bat as it will show that it will be doubly unnecessary to grind for them but they added it in there so they can satisfy the needs of the crazed elitest jerk who has to prance around LA yelling "U Jelly?! while doing a /dance.
That pretty much sums up the gear progression player imo.
Either that or people like character development in their RPGs? If you cap the level at a relatively easy to obtain point, gear is the only thing that can really continue character development.
Uh no it's not. So i guess the entire achievement list (which they actually have tangable rewards for btw) isn't progression to you....smh
Originally posted by muffins89yeah sounds like they caved.
They have no choice but to cave in, the only way they are going to keep people playing is through end level item grinding. The problem is no matter what new dungeons they bring in they are always going to be just a zerg rez fest.
Now correct me if im wrong, But should not their primary goal be to get people to buy from the Gem Store? Not seeing how setting vertical progression of gear outside the store is gona help that goal.
Uh, I think making the game fun should be their primary goal?
Business perspective mate.
I know people would like to think they are only out to make the perfect 'fairy land' but they are in industry to make money primarily.
Not pissing your customers off is good business. Besides, some developers are genuinely interested in making good games. Developers like CDPRed and Valve, for example, or (I think) ANet. Do you know what the three have in common? Their games have been financially successful.
ANet also made tons of free content already and these conspiracy theories about their cash-grabbing plans have gotten old. If they put a pink whale hat in their cash shop in this update, some people would scream "cash grab" no matter how many free dungeons are released with it.
Exactly, I've already seen stupid posts recently about the nov update saying "a dungeon, a spvp zone and a whole new zone isn't content" "WE WANT MOAR FREE CONTENT" smh, weird how these people think...err don't think just parrot whatever sounds good at the time.
They do (have blinders on). What I'm waiting for is to see if the armor sets they speak of for this dungeon are like the legendaries, only slightly better then the Exotics. If so this will end this nonsense right off the bat as it will show that it will be doubly unnecessary to grind for them but they added it in there so they can satisfy the needs of the crazed elitest jerk who has to prance around LA yelling "U Jelly?! while doing a /dance.
That pretty much sums up the gear progression player imo.
Either that or people like character development in their RPGs? If you cap the level at a relatively easy to obtain point, gear is the only thing that can really continue character development.
Uh no it's not. So i guess the entire achievement list (which they actually have tangable rewards for btw) isn't progression to you....smh
It's not character development, no. You can consider it some form of progression if you want to. It still leaves out character development. I do not consider picking up the new trendy jeans character development either (cosmetic).
Originally posted by Scalpless ANet also made tons of free content already and these conspiracy theories about their cash-grabbing plans have gotten old.
Now steady on, I'm just saying they cant exersize their creative vision if they are getting the power cut because they cant pay the bill.
I'm not saying anything bad about arenas business practices, i'm just saying that their primary revenue generator "The Gem Store" Is the life blood of the whole project and from a business perspective should be the no 1 thing to promote in order to keep the project alive.
I know what we would like to see as customers. That sometimes doesn't meet eye to eye with business people.
TSW - AoC - Aion - WOW - EVE - Fallen Earth - Co - Rift - || XNA C# Java Development
They do (have blinders on). What I'm waiting for is to see if the armor sets they speak of for this dungeon are like the legendaries, only slightly better then the Exotics. If so this will end this nonsense right off the bat as it will show that it will be doubly unnecessary to grind for them but they added it in there so they can satisfy the needs of the crazed elitest jerk who has to prance around LA yelling "U Jelly?! while doing a /dance.
That pretty much sums up the gear progression player imo.
Either that or people like character development in their RPGs? If you cap the level at a relatively easy to obtain point, gear is the only thing that can really continue character development.
Uh no it's not. So i guess the entire achievement list (which they actually have tangable rewards for btw) isn't progression to you....smh
It's not character development, no. You can consider it some form of progression if you want to. It still leaves out character development. I do not consider picking up the new trendy jeans character development either (cosmetic).
So just because you personally don't call it that that makes it so, we can call the world flat doesn't make it so either. Seeing the whole picture has it's advantages. You're basically saying that armor and weapons are the only means by which a character progresses. that's such a small view it's no wonder people like you post things in these forums like "played it for 1 month after launch, bored now" smh
Well I was getting pissed of with WvW anyway not because of WvW itself, but because I had to go do boring pve now and again to keep my seige / repair fund in the black.
This just makes it easier for me to switch to planetside 2
They do know planetside2 is coming out right? They do realise there's a large % of their players that only WvW apart from when they are forced to pve to raise cash? They do realise planetside 2 you agent forced to pve, because there is none, you can shock horror see your opponents names to build rivalry and no fluffy kittens diein the process. Do they also realise if pure a hardcore pve the, they will have to do lots lots more than this to drag you away from wow / rift?
Seems a really bloody stupid decision.
You make a really good point here. I've been bugging tsw devs to go big pvp. Instead they have built on what they are best at, and what their core loves them for. This is why you see the sandbox theater and not more pvp maps...yet :y
Originally posted by ShakyMo They do know planetside2 is coming out right?
Not just PS2 which is looking very good indeed but also DFUW as well.
They do realise there's a large % of their players that only WvW apart from when they are forced to pve to raise cash?
Of course they do.
They do realise planetside 2 you agent forced to pve, because there is none, you can shock horror see your opponents names to build rivalry and no fluffy kittens diein the process.
Yup no PVE in PS2 at all, all it will take is the word to get out and people will move on to a PVP game that actually has meaningful PVP and not just a meaningless zerg.
Do they also realise if pure a hardcore pve the, they will have to do lots lots more than this to drag you away from wow / rift?
They are never going to win the PVE crowd because they game is lacking big time where PVE is concerned.
Seems a really bloody stupid decision.
Why play GW2 when other games do PVE or PVP better.
Originally posted by Entioch good, armor equality belongs in pvp and spvp, not pve :P
Then I expect arena net to block the use of the new items in wvw ,which will not happen so how is now gw2 different than any other game based on gear grind ?To the person who said it don't counts because pvp is skill based - i doubt it ,a lower lv player is useless in wvw and now it seems after 2-3 more content packs like this ,even a 80 lv player with the old armor will have no choice against people farming the latest dungeons for gear. Meet the "next" generation mmo ,same like the old generation mmo . Also people quit playing for thousands of different reasons, this is just ncsoft giving in to the vocal minority of "hardcores" from the forums and I doubt it will help ,people who wanted the gear grind have better games around.
They do (have blinders on). What I'm waiting for is to see if the armor sets they speak of for this dungeon are like the legendaries, only slightly better then the Exotics. If so this will end this nonsense right off the bat as it will show that it will be doubly unnecessary to grind for them but they added it in there so they can satisfy the needs of the crazed elitest jerk who has to prance around LA yelling "U Jelly?! while doing a /dance.
That pretty much sums up the gear progression player imo.
Either that or people like character development in their RPGs? If you cap the level at a relatively easy to obtain point, gear is the only thing that can really continue character development.
Uh no it's not. So i guess the entire achievement list (which they actually have tangable rewards for btw) isn't progression to you....smh
It's not character development, no. You can consider it some form of progression if you want to. It still leaves out character development. I do not consider picking up the new trendy jeans character development either (cosmetic).
So just because you personally don't call it that that makes it so, we can call the world flat doesn't make it so either. Seeing the whole picture has it's advantages. You're basically saying that armor and weapons are the only means by which a character progresses. that's such a small view it's no wonder people like you post things in these forums like "played it for 1 month after launch, bored now" smh
Leveling and obtaining new skills are other forms of character development. I supposed unlocking areas through attunement or obtaining keys could be considered character development. Progression and character development are two different things. Progression refers to completing content or moving towards goals you may have. Character development is your character becoming more than it was prior to the development. Statistically better gear is one way that a character can develop.
On a side note, I find it interesting that anyone who's view differs from your own has "such a small view".
The only problem I have with this move is that it may be too late to entice the players that like progression back and also annoy those that dont like progression into leaving, it could very well bite them on the behind.
They should have thought this through in the first place tbh and included some form of end game progression from the get go, as long as the increase is small inbetween tiers, it would have been fine.
The WvW argument doesnt really stack as WvW is anything but balanced anyway, the fact that the numbers arent balanced and anyone from 1-80 can join means that there are stat and ability differences between each player anyway so adding a few extra stat points to level 80 gear is going to be like spitting in the ocean, it wont make the sea any less/more salty
Originally posted by Scalpless ANet also made tons of free content already and these conspiracy theories about their cash-grabbing plans have gotten old.
Now steady on, I'm just saying they cant exersize their creative vision if they are getting the power cut because they cant pay the bill.
I'm not saying anything bad about arenas business practices, i'm just saying that their primary revenue generator "The Gem Store" Is the life blood of the whole project and from a business perspective should be the no 1 thing to promote in order to keep the project alive.
I know what we would like to see as customers. That sometimes doesn't meet eye to eye with business people.
They are promoting the gem store all the time. Doesn't mean they won't release new content. If no one plays their game, no one buys gems. That's something crappy studios like current BioWare/EA don't seem to understand. The life blood of any business is having lots of happy customers who give you money.
I've been bugging tsw devs to go big pvp. Instead they have built on what they are best at, and what their core loves them for. This is why you see the sandbox theater and not more pvp maps...yet :y
I think the pvp changes for tsw are moving in the right direction. Points rewarded on a tick for territory possession rather than capture should stop the carebears trading facilities, would still prefer it if it was based upon kill assists with current possession acting as a modifier. The underdogs being able to summon a guardian sounds like it could be good too.
Why isn't it surprising that the people that spent time saying GW2 was meaningless because it was only cosmetic rewards and no actual power rewards bash GW2 at the hint they might introduce rewards that give more power?
One would start to believe they bash for the sake of bashing using something and the exact opposite of it to bash it.
A dungeon with increasing difficulty seems interesting.
Infuse in GW1 was a armor resist vs mursaats special skill. Additionally in GW1 you also had things like lightbringer rank to help vs tormented creatures.
I'll wait to see how Ascended Armor look.
Part of the gear treadmill is grinding a certain content to be able to participate the next, like doing dungeons to get a certain gear score to do the heroic dungeons to get the gear score to do the raid t1 to then raisegear score to do raid t2, etc,etc.
So lets see if the dungeon has requirements to enter /or to be able to finish it) and if the extra stats will be carried away to any other content or it is just exclusive to the dungeon.
I also remember some very long threads about how Exotics were too hard to get and were basically a gear grind just to have people getting exotics in a few days.
Currently playing: GW2 Going cardboard starter kit: Ticket to ride, Pandemic, Carcassonne, Dominion, 7 Wonders
Originally posted by biggarfoot And when this dungeon is done with by the majority, they will create a new dungeon with T5 gear, wash rinse and repeat, every few months, 2 yrs later players will be on T12 gear, sound familiar?
That's what i was think the issue might become. Adding Ascended may not be too problematic, but it's still really shocking that Anet is adding vertical gear progression when they said tehy wouldn't. So it's possible that in from update to update, the quality requirements increase.
Really, REALLY hoping this isn't the start of a vertical progression system. I'll wait and see, but if it does turn out to be my worst nightmare, I'm probably gonna discontinuing play of GW2. Even though I like things that have nothing to do with PvE, like Keg + Costume Brawl, or even structured PvP, I'm predicting I won't be able to stand anyone mentioning the game anymore.
And at that point, I'm definitely gonna delete my account off of MMORPG.com and create a different account so I can come on here and bash games to eternity like every other disgruntled former MMO player on here. This put me in such a horrifically bad mood.
Comments
Not pissing your customers off is good business. Besides, some developers are genuinely interested in making good games. Developers like CDPRed and Valve, for example, or (I think) ANet. Do you know what the three have in common? Their games have been financially successful.
ANet also made tons of free content already and these conspiracy theories about their cash-grabbing plans have gotten old. If they put a pink whale hat in their cash shop in this update, some people would scream "cash grab" no matter how many free dungeons are released with it.
They do realise there's a large % of their players that only WvW apart from when they are forced to pve to raise cash?
They do realise planetside 2 you agent forced to pve, because there is none, you can shock horror see your opponents names to build rivalry and no fluffy kittens diein the process.
Do they also realise if pure a hardcore pve the, they will have to do lots lots more than this to drag you away from wow / rift?
Seems a really bloody stupid decision.
Uh no it's not. So i guess the entire achievement list (which they actually have tangable rewards for btw) isn't progression to you....smh
Exactly, I've already seen stupid posts recently about the nov update saying "a dungeon, a spvp zone and a whole new zone isn't content" "WE WANT MOAR FREE CONTENT" smh, weird how these people think...err don't think just parrot whatever sounds good at the time.
It's not character development, no. You can consider it some form of progression if you want to. It still leaves out character development. I do not consider picking up the new trendy jeans character development either (cosmetic).
Now steady on, I'm just saying they cant exersize their creative vision if they are getting the power cut because they cant pay the bill.
I'm not saying anything bad about arenas business practices, i'm just saying that their primary revenue generator "The Gem Store" Is the life blood of the whole project and from a business perspective should be the no 1 thing to promote in order to keep the project alive.
I know what we would like to see as customers. That sometimes doesn't meet eye to eye with business people.
TSW - AoC - Aion - WOW - EVE - Fallen Earth - Co - Rift - || XNA C# Java Development
So just because you personally don't call it that that makes it so, we can call the world flat doesn't make it so either. Seeing the whole picture has it's advantages. You're basically saying that armor and weapons are the only means by which a character progresses. that's such a small view it's no wonder people like you post things in these forums like "played it for 1 month after launch, bored now" smh
This just makes it easier for me to switch to planetside 2
You make a really good point here. I've been bugging tsw devs to go big pvp. Instead they have built on what they are best at, and what their core loves them for. This is why you see the sandbox theater and not more pvp maps...yet :yWhy play GW2 when other games do PVE or PVP better.
Also people quit playing for thousands of different reasons, this is just ncsoft giving in to the vocal minority of "hardcores" from the forums and I doubt it will help ,people who wanted the gear grind have better games around.
Leveling and obtaining new skills are other forms of character development. I supposed unlocking areas through attunement or obtaining keys could be considered character development. Progression and character development are two different things. Progression refers to completing content or moving towards goals you may have. Character development is your character becoming more than it was prior to the development. Statistically better gear is one way that a character can develop.
On a side note, I find it interesting that anyone who's view differs from your own has "such a small view".
Hodor!
The only problem I have with this move is that it may be too late to entice the players that like progression back and also annoy those that dont like progression into leaving, it could very well bite them on the behind.
They should have thought this through in the first place tbh and included some form of end game progression from the get go, as long as the increase is small inbetween tiers, it would have been fine.
The WvW argument doesnt really stack as WvW is anything but balanced anyway, the fact that the numbers arent balanced and anyone from 1-80 can join means that there are stat and ability differences between each player anyway so adding a few extra stat points to level 80 gear is going to be like spitting in the ocean, it wont make the sea any less/more salty
They are promoting the gem store all the time. Doesn't mean they won't release new content. If no one plays their game, no one buys gems. That's something crappy studios like current BioWare/EA don't seem to understand. The life blood of any business is having lots of happy customers who give you money.
http://www.mmorpg.com/gamelist.cfm/game/404/view/news/read/26045/The-Secret-World-Big-PvP-Changes-Incoming.html
TSW - AoC - Aion - WOW - EVE - Fallen Earth - Co - Rift - || XNA C# Java Development
* Skinner laughs wickedly over his box*But.. it still suffers from the gear factor.
Why isn't it surprising that the people that spent time saying GW2 was meaningless because it was only cosmetic rewards and no actual power rewards bash GW2 at the hint they might introduce rewards that give more power?
One would start to believe they bash for the sake of bashing using something and the exact opposite of it to bash it.
A dungeon with increasing difficulty seems interesting.
Infuse in GW1 was a armor resist vs mursaats special skill. Additionally in GW1 you also had things like lightbringer rank to help vs tormented creatures.
I'll wait to see how Ascended Armor look.
Part of the gear treadmill is grinding a certain content to be able to participate the next, like doing dungeons to get a certain gear score to do the heroic dungeons to get the gear score to do the raid t1 to then raisegear score to do raid t2, etc,etc.
So lets see if the dungeon has requirements to enter /or to be able to finish it) and if the extra stats will be carried away to any other content or it is just exclusive to the dungeon.
I also remember some very long threads about how Exotics were too hard to get and were basically a gear grind just to have people getting exotics in a few days.
Currently playing: GW2
Going cardboard starter kit: Ticket to ride, Pandemic, Carcassonne, Dominion, 7 Wonders
I never based gw2 for not having progression pve endgame, in fast I welcomed it.
Things that currently annoy me in gw2
* no names in pvp
* being forced to pve so I can enjoy WvW
This change makes the latter worse its not an improvement for me.
It depends if the extra stats/effects are useful or carried to things other than the dungeon.
+ damage or damage reduction vs kratta or whatever it is means little vs human players.
Currently playing: GW2
Going cardboard starter kit: Ticket to ride, Pandemic, Carcassonne, Dominion, 7 Wonders
That's what i was think the issue might become. Adding Ascended may not be too problematic, but it's still really shocking that Anet is adding vertical gear progression when they said tehy wouldn't. So it's possible that in from update to update, the quality requirements increase.
Really, REALLY hoping this isn't the start of a vertical progression system. I'll wait and see, but if it does turn out to be my worst nightmare, I'm probably gonna discontinuing play of GW2. Even though I like things that have nothing to do with PvE, like Keg + Costume Brawl, or even structured PvP, I'm predicting I won't be able to stand anyone mentioning the game anymore.
And at that point, I'm definitely gonna delete my account off of MMORPG.com and create a different account so I can come on here and bash games to eternity like every other disgruntled former MMO player on here.
This put me in such a horrifically bad mood.