[POLL] You don't need max stat gear

killion81

The thought that GW2 has introduced a gear grind to their game through the additional of Ascended gear and the amount of work required to obtain Ascended gear with an infusion slot has been brought up on these forums.  I have seen several responses defend ANet's decision to introduce this gear with the idea that you do not need max stat gear to play or enjoy the game.  This is a simple poll to validate or invalidate this stance on this forum through the opinion of the majority of posters on this forum.

xpiher

I voted no because agony will be used as a gating mechanic, similar to T gear in WoW.

Toxia

I voted Yes, as i ran all dungeons in greens as i worked my way to exotics.

Will you need AGONY infusions to progress in the Specific fractals on the mist dungeon? Yes.

Yes you will.

irpugboss

I voted yes it is valid counter because the content is not truly gated by gear, only difficulty of the same content is gated by a specific stat on this gear.

You can grind out as much agony resist gear you want but you will see the same content others will see with a scaling reward based on the difficulty (or increase in agony)

 

WoW

Regular dungeons (new Content) --> Heroic dungeons (Same content) ---> Regular Raid (New content) ---> Heroic Raid (Same content) ----> new expansions/major patch  (repeat cycle)

 

GW2

Fractal lvl1 (New content ----> Fractal lvl 3(Same content) ---> Fractals 7 (Same content) ---> Fractals 10+ (same content) ---> new expansion/major patch (Unknown at this time...speculation is not a valid argument yet)

 

 

The stat increase is so nominal it isnt event worth grinding for hardcore WvWers who feel they may need a statistical advantage.

 

 

azzamasin

Originally posted by krage

I voted yes it is valid counter because the content is not truly gated by gear, only difficulty of the same content is gated by a specific stat on this gear.

You can grind out as much agony resist gear you want but you will see the same content others will see with a scaling reward based on the difficulty (or increase in agony)

 

WoW

Regular dungeons (new Content) --> Heroic dungeons (Same content) ---> Regular Raid (New content) ---> Heroic Raid (Same content) ----> new expansions/major patch  (repeat cycle)

 

GW2

Fractal lvl1 (New content ----> Fractal lvl 3(Same content) ---> Fractals 7 (Same content) ---> Fractals 10+ (same content) ---> new expansion/major patch (Unknown at this time...speculation is not a valid argument yet)

 

 

The stat increase is so nominal it isnt event worth grinding for hardcore WvWers who feel they may need a statistical advantage.

 

 

Tell that to my server that went from mid tier to top tier within a month and now we can't even field a valid defense because everyone is in fractals grinding gear for that advantage.

 

Fractals is IMO DAoC ToA 2.0 with same results.  No one is PvP'ing because of it!

irpugboss

Originally posted by azzamasin

Originally posted by krage

I voted yes it is valid counter because the content is not truly gated by gear, only difficulty of the same content is gated by a specific stat on this gear.

You can grind out as much agony resist gear you want but you will see the same content others will see with a scaling reward based on the difficulty (or increase in agony)

 

WoW

Regular dungeons (new Content) --> Heroic dungeons (Same content) ---> Regular Raid (New content) ---> Heroic Raid (Same content) ----> new expansions/major patch  (repeat cycle)

 

GW2

Fractal lvl1 (New content ----> Fractal lvl 3(Same content) ---> Fractals 7 (Same content) ---> Fractals 10+ (same content) ---> new expansion/major patch (Unknown at this time...speculation is not a valid argument yet)

 

 

The stat increase is so nominal it isnt event worth grinding for hardcore WvWers who feel they may need a statistical advantage.

 

 

Tell that to my server that went from mid tier to top tier within a month and now we can't even field a valid defense because everyone is in fractals grinding gear for that advantage.

 

Fractals is IMO DAoC ToA 2.0 with same results.  No one is PvP'ing because of it!

I have noticed no such change and I run the Tarnished Coast WvW Guild Alliance, ranking havent shifted significantly either. Must be a problem unique to your server.

xpiher

Originally posted by Toxia

I voted Yes, as i ran all dungeons in greens as i worked my way to exotics.

Will you need AGONY infusions to progress in the Specific fractals on the mist dungeon? Yes.

Yes you will.

Its not just about fractals. If ANET was only using this mechanic in the fractal dungeon then there wouldn't be an issue; however, they already stated they would be expanding on the Agony mechanic in future content updates. If they don'trequire you have this updates ascended and angony buffs to do the next content, then its not progression. 

NaughtyP

Answer is no. Of course people are only talking about PvE. Can't say I'm surprised. I don't have the time to save up 100000000 badges for when they add ascended to WvW rewards. I don't feel like getting curbstomped in PvP from fully geared ascended players either. Plus there is no timeline on the release of ascended for WvW, so once again PvE grinders get first crack. WvW = afterthought.

Toxia

Originally posted by krage

Originally posted by azzamasin

Originally posted by krage

I voted yes it is valid counter because the content is not truly gated by gear, only difficulty of the same content is gated by a specific stat on this gear.

You can grind out as much agony resist gear you want but you will see the same content others will see with a scaling reward based on the difficulty (or increase in agony)

 

WoW

Regular dungeons (new Content) --> Heroic dungeons (Same content) ---> Regular Raid (New content) ---> Heroic Raid (Same content) ----> new expansions/major patch  (repeat cycle)

 

GW2

Fractal lvl1 (New content ----> Fractal lvl 3(Same content) ---> Fractals 7 (Same content) ---> Fractals 10+ (same content) ---> new expansion/major patch (Unknown at this time...speculation is not a valid argument yet)

 

 

The stat increase is so nominal it isnt event worth grinding for hardcore WvWers who feel they may need a statistical advantage.

 

 

Tell that to my server that went from mid tier to top tier within a month and now we can't even field a valid defense because everyone is in fractals grinding gear for that advantage.

 

Fractals is IMO DAoC ToA 2.0 with same results.  No one is PvP'ing because of it!

I have noticed no such change and I run the Tarnished Coast WvW Guild Alliance, ranking havent shifted significantly either. Must be a problem unique to your server.

Same here on Jade Quarry, damn queues start early , even with fractals released

Toxia

Originally posted by NaughtyP
Answer is no. Of course people are only talking about PvE. Can't say I'm surprised. I don't have the time to save up 100000000 badges for when they add ascended to WvW rewards. I don't feel like getting curbstomped in PvP from fully geared ascended players either. Plus there is no timeline on the release of ascended for WvW, so once again PvE grinders get first crack. WvW = afterthought.

Have they said anything about WvW even getting ascended gear? The post i saw on the matter said they weren't putting it in pvp, to keep balance.

irpugboss

Originally posted by xpiher

Originally posted by Toxia

I voted Yes, as i ran all dungeons in greens as i worked my way to exotics.

Will you need AGONY infusions to progress in the Specific fractals on the mist dungeon? Yes.

Yes you will.

Its not just about fractals. If ANET was only using this mechanic in the fractal dungeon then there wouldn't be an issue; however, they already stated they would be expanding on the Agony mechanic in future content updates. If they don'trequire you have this updates ascended and angony buffs to do the next content, then its not progression. 

Well we dont know yet, they can either gate the content by baseline agony in new content 

OR

They can simply scale new content by levels with increasing agony as they have done with fractals

Lets not assume we know their future intentions. I know if it becomes truly gated by gear that must be regrinded every content expansion I will probably drop the game.Until then assumptions on how ANET will implement new agony based content are not valid for argument, all we can truly disucss is if the current implentation does not require a gear grind to experience the content and game.  

Now If there was a sub fee where we pay them a significant sum of money towards the next content release then knee-jerk speculations are fully warranted since if they fail to deliver our money was wasted.

Toxia

Originally posted by xpiher

Originally posted by Toxia

I voted Yes, as i ran all dungeons in greens as i worked my way to exotics.

Will you need AGONY infusions to progress in the Specific fractals on the mist dungeon? Yes.

Yes you will.

Its not just about fractals. If ANET was only using this mechanic in the fractal dungeon then there wouldn't be an issue; however, they already stated they would be expanding on the Agony mechanic in future content updates. If they don'trequire you have this updates ascended and angony buffs to do the next content, then its not progression. 

They also stated that when it moves out of just being a Fractals of the mist feature, the items will be dropped in normal pve events and as rewards for the events. So everyone will be able to get it no problem.

NaughtyP

Originally posted by Toxia

Originally posted by NaughtyP
Answer is no. Of course people are only talking about PvE. Can't say I'm surprised. I don't have the time to save up 100000000 badges for when they add ascended to WvW rewards. I don't feel like getting curbstomped in PvP from fully geared ascended players either. Plus there is no timeline on the release of ascended for WvW, so once again PvE grinders get first crack. WvW = afterthought.

Have they said anything about WvW even getting ascended gear? The post i saw on the matter said they weren't putting it in pvp, to keep balance.

They said they would be adding it to WvW as rewards (interview somewhere I think). Either way, if you walk into WvW with ascended gear on today, you will most definitely have a (minor) statistical advantage. When full ascended is in? Well, I'm screwed lol. I don't have the time to spend on getting another tier of gear whenever they feel like adding it.

TheDarkrayne

Most people have misunderstood the poll and voted yes to it being a valid counter arguement because they thought they were saying yes to needing max stat gear.

You need the gear to progress through the new PvE dungeon. You NEED it. That's a fact.

For PvP, you don't need it.

They have introduced PvE gear grind.

Toxia

Originally posted by NaughtyP

Originally posted by Toxia

Originally posted by NaughtyP
Answer is no. Of course people are only talking about PvE. Can't say I'm surprised. I don't have the time to save up 100000000 badges for when they add ascended to WvW rewards. I don't feel like getting curbstomped in PvP from fully geared ascended players either. Plus there is no timeline on the release of ascended for WvW, so once again PvE grinders get first crack. WvW = afterthought.

Have they said anything about WvW even getting ascended gear? The post i saw on the matter said they weren't putting it in pvp, to keep balance.

They said they would be adding it to WvW as rewards (interview somewhere I think). Either way, if you walk into WvW with ascended gear on today, you will most definitely have a (minor) statistical advantage. When full ascended is in? Well, I'm screwed lol. I don't have the time to spend on getting another tier of gear whenever they feel like adding it.

https://forum-en.guildwars2.com/forum/info/news/A-message-from-our-Studio-Design-Director-Chris-Whiteside/

'

Our goal is not to create a gear treadmill. Our goal is to ensure we have a proper progression for players from exotic up to legendary without a massive jump in reward between the two. We will slowly add the remaining ascended gear items and legendary items in future updates to allow people time to acquire them as we add exciting new content that deserves exciting rewards. We will not be adding a new tier of gear every 3 months that we expect everyone to chase after and then get the next set and so on.

Ascended and infusion rewards will be available in both PvE and WvW over time, and be made available through all sorts of content around the world including existing content. PvP will remain unaffected to ensure our intended PvP balance going forward. We are also working on other reward and progression systems for the game that tie into current and new content and features. As you know we care very much about your support and opinion and are listening intently to what you say.'

 

No, you will have no advantage. Sorry

 

VeryDusty

Originally posted by krage

I voted yes it is valid counter because the content is not truly gated by gear, only difficulty of the same content is gated by a specific stat on this gear.

You can grind out as much agony resist gear you want but you will see the same content others will see with a scaling reward based on the difficulty (or increase in agony)

 

WoW

Regular dungeons (new Content) --> Heroic dungeons (Same content) ---> Regular Raid (New content) ---> Heroic Raid (Same content) ----> new expansions/major patch  (repeat cycle)

 

GW2

Fractal lvl1 (New content ----> Fractal lvl 3(Same content) ---> Fractals 7 (Same content) ---> Fractals 10+ (same content) ---> new expansion/major patch (Unknown at this time...speculation is not a valid argument yet)

 Compare WoW when it first came out not the way it is now to GW2, as that is the best comparison. WoW is 8 yrs old and has had many expansions on it.

 

The stat increase is so nominal it isnt event worth grinding for hardcore WvWers who feel they may need a statistical advantage.

 

 I agree here - mountains out of mole hills.

 

irpugboss

Originally posted by VeryDusty

Originally posted by krage

I voted yes it is valid counter because the content is not truly gated by gear, only difficulty of the same content is gated by a specific stat on this gear.

You can grind out as much agony resist gear you want but you will see the same content others will see with a scaling reward based on the difficulty (or increase in agony)

 

WoW

Regular dungeons (new Content) --> Heroic dungeons (Same content) ---> Regular Raid (New content) ---> Heroic Raid (Same content) ----> new expansions/major patch  (repeat cycle)

 

GW2

Fractal lvl1 (New content ----> Fractal lvl 3(Same content) ---> Fractals 7 (Same content) ---> Fractals 10+ (same content) ---> new expansion/major patch (Unknown at this time...speculation is not a valid argument yet)

 Compare WoW when it first came out not the way it is now to GW2, as that is the best comparison. WoW is 8 yrs old and has had many expansions on it.

 

The stat increase is so nominal it isnt event worth grinding for hardcore WvWers who feel they may need a statistical advantage.

 

 I agree here - mountains out of mole hills.

 

I think it would be an even better case for GW2 if compared against vanilla wow, the gear gating just back with 40 mans and resistance sets was horrific...although at the time it was new, fresh, and fun.

 

I guess the fractals agony could be considered farming a resistance set to progress farther into the same dungeon, although its recycled content with higher rewards rather than wows new content with higher and DKP rewards lol.

killion81

Originally posted by Toxia

Originally posted by NaughtyP

Originally posted by Toxia

Originally posted by NaughtyP
Answer is no. Of course people are only talking about PvE. Can't say I'm surprised. I don't have the time to save up 100000000 badges for when they add ascended to WvW rewards. I don't feel like getting curbstomped in PvP from fully geared ascended players either. Plus there is no timeline on the release of ascended for WvW, so once again PvE grinders get first crack. WvW = afterthought.

Have they said anything about WvW even getting ascended gear? The post i saw on the matter said they weren't putting it in pvp, to keep balance.

They said they would be adding it to WvW as rewards (interview somewhere I think). Either way, if you walk into WvW with ascended gear on today, you will most definitely have a (minor) statistical advantage. When full ascended is in? Well, I'm screwed lol. I don't have the time to spend on getting another tier of gear whenever they feel like adding it.

https://forum-en.guildwars2.com/forum/info/news/A-message-from-our-Studio-Design-Director-Chris-Whiteside/

'

Our goal is not to create a gear treadmill. Our goal is to ensure we have a proper progression for players from exotic up to legendary without a massive jump in reward between the two. We will slowly add the remaining ascended gear items and legendary items in future updates to allow people time to acquire them as we add exciting new content that deserves exciting rewards. We will not be adding a new tier of gear every 3 months that we expect everyone to chase after and then get the next set and so on.

Ascended and infusion rewards will be available in both PvE and WvW over time, and be made available through all sorts of content around the world including existing content. PvP will remain unaffected to ensure our intended PvP balance going forward. We are also working on other reward and progression systems for the game that tie into current and new content and features. As you know we care very much about your support and opinion and are listening intently to what you say.'

 

No, you will have no advantage. Sorry

 

 

Read the sentence above the one you highlighted.  When he says "PvP" in the highlighted sentence, he is referring to SPvP/TPvP.

itgrowls

This is so not true. In WvWvW you need the added stats to keep an edge especially in smaller groups.

In dungeons even the older ones, gear directly affects the success and survival of the team.

In open world events you need the extra stats to kill faster and/or to have that added vitality/toughness to stay alive longer in major events especially with one shot style attacks that many mobs have in these situations.

The argument is moot anyway since their manifesto was definitely NOT supposed to have higher tier armor, was NOT supposed to force people into a single play style (a single dungeon as the only means to progress) and was NOT supposed to make crafting completely useless (horizontal progression)

They have successfully done all three in a single patch.

They've basically destroyed their reputation in a single patch. Bait and Switch describes exactly what they did.Only time will tell if people will trust them again.

Ryowulf

The actual difference in stats on gear is slight, but since they are making you get gear to do certain content I voted no.

 

 

Really you need the few points to get an edge, so someone has 13 might and someone else has 15 and that makes a big difference? I doubt it.  A skilled person is still going to come out on top even in greens.

 

xpiher

Originally posted by Toxia

Originally posted by NaughtyP
Answer is no. Of course people are only talking about PvE. Can't say I'm surprised. I don't have the time to save up 100000000 badges for when they add ascended to WvW rewards. I don't feel like getting curbstomped in PvP from fully geared ascended players either. Plus there is no timeline on the release of ascended for WvW, so once again PvE grinders get first crack. WvW = afterthought.

Have they said anything about WvW even getting ascended gear? The post i saw on the matter said they weren't putting it in pvp, to keep balance.

Yes they are. When they said something isn't going into PvP they are talking about sPvP. WvW is seen, by ANET, as casual PvP. 

xpiher

Originally posted by Toxia

Originally posted by xpiher

Originally posted by Toxia

I voted Yes, as i ran all dungeons in greens as i worked my way to exotics.

Will you need AGONY infusions to progress in the Specific fractals on the mist dungeon? Yes.

Yes you will.

Its not just about fractals. If ANET was only using this mechanic in the fractal dungeon then there wouldn't be an issue; however, they already stated they would be expanding on the Agony mechanic in future content updates. If they don'trequire you have this updates ascended and angony buffs to do the next content, then its not progression. 

They also stated that when it moves out of just being a Fractals of the mist feature, the items will be dropped in normal pve events and as rewards for the events. So everyone will be able to get it no problem.

If its still a RNG drop, then its doesn't matter were it comes from. 

VeryDusty

Agony, as A.Net said is just in this area. So it may be a one off so people don't farm them so much. As was stated, very similar to Spectral Agony from the Mursaat in GW1: Prophecies. The infusion in GW1 was only good those areas with the Mursaat.

SirFubar

Originally posted by azzamasin

Originally posted by krage

I voted yes it is valid counter because the content is not truly gated by gear, only difficulty of the same content is gated by a specific stat on this gear.

You can grind out as much agony resist gear you want but you will see the same content others will see with a scaling reward based on the difficulty (or increase in agony)

 

WoW

Regular dungeons (new Content) --> Heroic dungeons (Same content) ---> Regular Raid (New content) ---> Heroic Raid (Same content) ----> new expansions/major patch  (repeat cycle)

 

GW2

Fractal lvl1 (New content ----> Fractal lvl 3(Same content) ---> Fractals 7 (Same content) ---> Fractals 10+ (same content) ---> new expansion/major patch (Unknown at this time...speculation is not a valid argument yet)

 

 

The stat increase is so nominal it isnt event worth grinding for hardcore WvWers who feel they may need a statistical advantage.

 

 

Tell that to my server that went from mid tier to top tier within a month and now we can't even field a valid defense because everyone is in fractals grinding gear for that advantage.

 

Fractals is IMO DAoC ToA 2.0 with same results.  No one is PvP'ing because of it!

Loll this argument is nonsense since the ascended gear will give you like a +0.8% of upgrade in each stat (considering you already have all the best exotics you wanted), calculated from the character stats, not the difference between exotics and ascended (where most people don't seem to understand the difference and fail to do the math where it matters the most). So yeah, people who still think the upgrade is huge, go out and calculate how much of an upgrade the ascended gear REALLY IS from your character stats and you will understand.

Also, I bet it didn't come to your mind that its exactly because of the fact that you were in a mid tier server now on a top tier that you guys aren't able to field a valid defense? Playing against the best servers is not an easy task. Gear have nothing to do with it, only skill and coordination.

On topic, I voted yes it is, since I've not even tried the new dungeon yet and I couldn't care less about the minor upgrade of the ascended gear. It never stopped me to do 99% of the game's content and pwn the noobs who think they will be better in their ascended gear. I would say, instead of caring about stats, most people should just l2p properly instead of QQing. Your build and how you play is 1000x more important than some stupid meaningless stats upgrade. Sure I might have to start getting ascended gear at some point to experience the new content and the future ones  but we are far from there. And I'm pretty sure that when it will happen, the gear will be more accessible (Yeah I agree I was completely wrong about the grind of the ascended gear, I was pretty sure it was easy to get but I was soooo wrong lol).

xpiher

Originally posted by VeryDusty

Agony, as A.Net said is just in this area. So it may be a one off so people don't farm them so much. As was stated, very similar to Spectral Agony from the Mursaat in GW1: Prophecies. The infusion in GW1 was only good those areas with the Mursaat.

They didn't say its limited just to the fratals. They did say they plan on expanding on the system with future content patches. If agony is only limited to fractals, then its not progression. 

ThomasN7

So I want this bow but I have 2 to choose from. One has 18 agility and the other has 25 agility. Which one do I want ?  Tough choice!