Meaningless ultra long grinds arent depth. And thats all that "old school" games had. Yes i played them, i just dont wear rose colored glasses.
I am just playing the devils advocate here i honestly belong to neither camp. because i am casual as well as hardcore gamer based on how much free time i can spare for gaming. However i do hate double standards.
Saying that modern MMOS cater to casuals and have very less depth, even go on to call them 'punks' and then if someone dares question GW2's depth the same guy jumps on him forgetting that in past that is all he has been doing ..complaining about modern MMOS being 'shallow'.
A game can be extremly indeapth and complex yet it can also be very casual friendly, EvE can both be played as hardcore complex game as the sametime it can be played very casual It's all about how you play the game and how you see it and how you understand it.
I can see your point of view BigandShiny however the gear progression (see, i resisted saying gear grind) you describe should not be confused with depth. Nore should 'gated content', or a whole bunch of other stuff.
I know you feel quite proud of yourself and though hahaha got him when you posted this with my quotes.
The word shallow means absolute nothing if you can't explain what is is that makes it shallow.
I really don't know why you thought you were smart by making those quotes about me liking GW2, as also quoted I have a sub running in Vanguard for my oldschool fix and I play GW2 because I find that form of gameplay refreshing and I find the dungeons challengeing and I like the WvW PvP so my quotes somehow in your troll mind should answer my question why he feels GW2 is shallow
i simply quoted you to answer your own predicament regarding how GW2 is not shallow. But your quots do make for very interesting read . But if we go by dictionary meaning shallow means somethign which lacks depth.
Granted it will vary from person to person but keeping your other posts in mind and your rant about modern games being easy and lackign depth i was hoping you would understand his post better and what he meant when he said 'GW2 is shallow'.
You mentioned that games after 2000 to 2012 and you can clearly see the games have gone from difficult and challenging to fast food industry gameplay with little brain activity needed to be able to play.
Your words not mine. Then you talk about lazy gamers who want everythign handed to them on silver platter. Who and which demographics do you think GW2 devs were aiming for? yes people with jobs, wives and kids who can hop in and out of the game on their own terms.
Why do game developers listen to these punks who want everything served on a golden platter with little effort needed and in the same time these people will leave after the first month anyway to scourge the forums for the next big hit.
Since when did the lazy carrot on a stick kids and I got a job,a wife and 2 children gamers have more power than the average gamer?
Again your words not mine. So yes actually you have already answered OP's question in past i just believe you have a very bi polar thing going on here. But to make it easier i will list the reasons based on your own posts.
1;) Fast food industry gameplay with little brain activity needed. (Check)
2;) Focusing on players who want everything served to them on silver platter. (Check)
3;) Catering to lazy carrot on stick kids and i got a job, wife and 2 children gamers. (Check)
4.) Games like Vanguard the only game which gives old school feeling these days somethign missing from games like GW2. (Check)
I can go on but isn't that what OP is trying to say but in different words? if this doesn't scream shallow than what does?
No I still haven't answerd my own question and I STILL WANT A ANSWER FROM HIM not you and YOUR opinions.
So I really don't care what you have to say and how you feel and how you think the word shallow apply to GW2.
So with your logic I should wait, what to 2050 so I can play a game that YOU aprove?
May I ask why you care so much? Do you have shares in ANet? Calm down, some people find the game shallow, you don't; is any further crap required on the subject?
Meaningless ultra long grinds arent depth. And thats all that "old school" games had. Yes i played them, i just dont wear rose colored glasses.
I am just playing the devils advocate here i honestly belong to neither camp. because i am casual as well as hardcore gamer based on how much free time i can spare for gaming. However i do hate double standards.
Saying that modern MMOS cater to casuals and have very less depth, even go on to call them 'punks' and then if someone dares question GW2's depth the same guy jumps on him forgetting that in past that is all he has been doing ..complaining about modern MMOS being 'shallow'.
A game can be extremly indeapth and complex yet it can also be very casual friendly, EvE can both be played as hardcore complex game as the sametime it can be played very casual It's all about how you play the game and how you see it and how you understand it.
So I fail to see your point.
Are you seriously implying GW2 is " in depth". The game is about as simple as you can get. Not knocking it but come on now...
1. For god's sake mmo gamers, enough with the analogies. They're unnecessary and your comparisons are terrible, dissimilar, and illogical.
2. To posters feeling the need to state how f2p really isn't f2p: Players understand the concept. You aren't privy to some secret the rest are missing. You're embarrassing yourself.
3. Yes, Cpt. Obvious, we're not industry experts. Now run along and let the big people use the forums for their purpose.
I know you feel quite proud of yourself and though hahaha got him when you posted this with my quotes.
The word shallow means absolute nothing if you can't explain what is is that makes it shallow.
I really don't know why you thought you were smart by making those quotes about me liking GW2, as also quoted I have a sub running in Vanguard for my oldschool fix and I play GW2 because I find that form of gameplay refreshing and I find the dungeons challengeing and I like the WvW PvP so my quotes somehow in your troll mind should answer my question why he feels GW2 is shallow
i simply quoted you to answer your own predicament regarding how GW2 is not shallow. But your quots do make for very interesting read . But if we go by dictionary meaning shallow means somethign which lacks depth.
Granted it will vary from person to person but keeping your other posts in mind and your rant about modern games being easy and lackign depth i was hoping you would understand his post better and what he meant when he said 'GW2 is shallow'.
You mentioned that games after 2000 to 2012 and you can clearly see the games have gone from difficult and challenging to fast food industry gameplay with little brain activity needed to be able to play.
Your words not mine. Then you talk about lazy gamers who want everythign handed to them on silver platter. Who and which demographics do you think GW2 devs were aiming for? yes people with jobs, wives and kids who can hop in and out of the game on their own terms.
Why do game developers listen to these punks who want everything served on a golden platter with little effort needed and in the same time these people will leave after the first month anyway to scourge the forums for the next big hit.
Since when did the lazy carrot on a stick kids and I got a job,a wife and 2 children gamers have more power than the average gamer?
Again your words not mine. So yes actually you have already answered OP's question in past i just believe you have a very bi polar thing going on here. But to make it easier i will list the reasons based on your own posts.
1;) Fast food industry gameplay with little brain activity needed. (Check)
2;) Focusing on players who want everything served to them on silver platter. (Check)
3;) Catering to lazy carrot on stick kids and i got a job, wife and 2 children gamers. (Check)
4.) Games like Vanguard the only game which gives old school feeling these days somethign missing from games like GW2. (Check)
I can go on but isn't that what OP is trying to say but in different words? if this doesn't scream shallow than what does?
No I still haven't answerd my own question and I STILL WANT A ANSWER FROM HIM not you and YOUR opinions.
So I really don't care what you have to say and how you feel and how you think the word shallow apply to GW2.
So with your logic I should wait, what to 2050 so I can play a game that YOU aprove?
May I ask why you care so much? Do you have shares in ANet? Calm down, some people find the game shallow, you don't; is any further crap required on the subject?
Writing the word shallow and dont explain why is the same thing to write the word sucks both means nothing if you can't explain why.
Meaningless ultra long grinds arent depth. And thats all that "old school" games had. Yes i played them, i just dont wear rose colored glasses.
I am just playing the devils advocate here i honestly belong to neither camp. because i am casual as well as hardcore gamer based on how much free time i can spare for gaming. However i do hate double standards.
Saying that modern MMOS cater to casuals and have very less depth, even go on to call them 'punks' and then if someone dares question GW2's depth the same guy jumps on him forgetting that in past that is all he has been doing ..complaining about modern MMOS being 'shallow'.
A game can be extremly indeapth and complex yet it can also be very casual friendly, EvE can both be played as hardcore complex game as the sametime it can be played very casual It's all about how you play the game and how you see it and how you understand it.
So I fail to see your point.
If you really understand that you wouldn't have made a topic just to insult casual gamers now would you? call them punks and blame devs for catering more to people with jobs and family? i am just going by what you have said.
I think it is you who need to understand this point better because i have already mentioned i don't believe in hardcore or casual mindset at all.
"The problem is that the hardcore folks always want the same thing: 'We want exactly what you gave us before, but it has to be completely different.' -Jesse Schell
"Online gamers are the most ludicrously entitled beings since Caligula made his horse a senator, and at least the horse never said anything stupid." -Luke McKinney
Meaningless ultra long grinds arent depth. And thats all that "old school" games had. Yes i played them, i just dont wear rose colored glasses.
I am just playing the devils advocate here i honestly belong to neither camp. because i am casual as well as hardcore gamer based on how much free time i can spare for gaming. However i do hate double standards.
Saying that modern MMOS cater to casuals and have very less depth, even go on to call them 'punks' and then if someone dares question GW2's depth the same guy jumps on him forgetting that in past that is all he has been doing ..complaining about modern MMOS being 'shallow'.
A game can be extremly indeapth and complex yet it can also be very casual friendly, EvE can both be played as hardcore complex game as the sametime it can be played very casual It's all about how you play the game and how you see it and how you understand it.
So I fail to see your point.
If you really understand that you wouldn't have made a topic just to insult casual gamers now would you? call them punks and blame devs for catering more to people with jobs and family? i am just going by what you have said.
I think it is you who need to understand this point better because i have already mentioned i don't believe in hardcore or casual mindset at all.
Why do you qoute me from another post to fuel your argument when I didn't want to talk with you to begin with?
Why do you qoute me from another post to fuel your argument when I didn't want to talk with you to begin with?
Touche! by the way you did quote me that is why i replied.
"The problem is that the hardcore folks always want the same thing: 'We want exactly what you gave us before, but it has to be completely different.' -Jesse Schell
"Online gamers are the most ludicrously entitled beings since Caligula made his horse a senator, and at least the horse never said anything stupid." -Luke McKinney
Meaningless ultra long grinds arent depth. And thats all that "old school" games had. Yes i played them, i just dont wear rose colored glasses.
I am just playing the devils advocate here i honestly belong to neither camp. because i am casual as well as hardcore gamer based on how much free time i can spare for gaming. However i do hate double standards.
Saying that modern MMOS cater to casuals and have very less depth, even go on to call them 'punks' and then if someone dares question GW2's depth the same guy jumps on him forgetting that in past that is all he has been doing ..complaining about modern MMOS being 'shallow'.
A game can be extremly indeapth and complex yet it can also be very casual friendly, EvE can both be played as hardcore complex game as the sametime it can be played very casual It's all about how you play the game and how you see it and how you understand it.
So I fail to see your point.
Are you seriously implying GW2 is " in depth". The game is about as simple as you can get. Not knocking it but come on now...
As simple as you can get? OK, you're a mesmer with greatsword and scepter/focus for the weapon sets. You're in combat. When would you use mesmer focus 4?
Writing the word shallow and dont explain why is the same thing to write the word sucks both means nothing if you can't explain why.
i agree - "one word" adjectives without detailing why - are meaningless
Because PvE wise you can accomplish anything with a pug group? With little struggle.
The game gives new meaning to tank and spank (Yes...I know how that will bring down the mighty throws of the lemmings that somehow feel not having a trinity nullifies the concept) the likes I have never seen. Albeit exploration mode does involve a working brain to a degree. Story mode simply involves nothing more than a full group bashing into the foray besides a few selective encounters.
From a "PvE" perspective the game is seriously shallow. I would, however, differ far as PvP goes...
1. For god's sake mmo gamers, enough with the analogies. They're unnecessary and your comparisons are terrible, dissimilar, and illogical.
2. To posters feeling the need to state how f2p really isn't f2p: Players understand the concept. You aren't privy to some secret the rest are missing. You're embarrassing yourself.
3. Yes, Cpt. Obvious, we're not industry experts. Now run along and let the big people use the forums for their purpose.
GW2 isn't deep because the loot, customization, rewards are SO simple. I'm not on edge during a story bossfight because I KNOW the boss isn't going to drop any cool gear, because hey, I don't have 50,000 tokens or a trillion karma or whatever, because gear has to be bought from the vendor.
I know that when I level up I won't get that awesome ability, because HEY I'm level 35 and, as long as I want to play this general build, I'm using the same skills for the rest of the time i ever play this character.
I know that when I finish that challenging dungeon with my friends, I won't be able to go out into the world and FEEL more powerful, killing mobs with ease, because endgame gear doesn't give you much advantage in the open world and zones scale to your level anyway, so you never feel truly powerful.
this is a personal truth for you
i dont relate -- chance at gear drops can make fights more exciting but its not the "be all" for me
GW2 mobs do die much easier if you scale down from upper levels, there is a sense of power when you scale down
As simple as you can get? OK, you're a mesmer with greatsword and scepter/focus for the weapon sets. You're in combat. When would you use mesmer focus 4?
Do you have any idea how laughable this is? This is your counter argument? Really?
1. For god's sake mmo gamers, enough with the analogies. They're unnecessary and your comparisons are terrible, dissimilar, and illogical.
2. To posters feeling the need to state how f2p really isn't f2p: Players understand the concept. You aren't privy to some secret the rest are missing. You're embarrassing yourself.
3. Yes, Cpt. Obvious, we're not industry experts. Now run along and let the big people use the forums for their purpose.
Because PvE wise you can accomplish anything with a pug group? With little struggle.
GW2 does not have raids - so yes, i would hope that anything can be accomplished with a PUG
i used to PUG dungeons in Everquest all the time
Through trial and error yes. But I have never been able to pug everything the first time through PvE wise like I did in GW2.
As I said before, from a PvP perspective the game has value. Far as PvE goes...you can get a much better challenge from other games available for sale.
Raids withstanding because I hate how cumbersome those tend to be. Although to be fair they have gotten a hell of a lot better than in the old days.
1. For god's sake mmo gamers, enough with the analogies. They're unnecessary and your comparisons are terrible, dissimilar, and illogical.
2. To posters feeling the need to state how f2p really isn't f2p: Players understand the concept. You aren't privy to some secret the rest are missing. You're embarrassing yourself.
3. Yes, Cpt. Obvious, we're not industry experts. Now run along and let the big people use the forums for their purpose.
Through trial and error yes. But I have never been able to pug everything the first time through PvE wise like I did in GW2.
I wasnt as fortunate as you but having PUG members that bail after they get killed didnt help
in Everquest, people didnt bail dungeons unless they had other things to do
plus it helped that you could spend hours in the dungeon - and see other player groups
im not a fan of instanced dungeons (popularized by WOW)
Not sure what your point is considering EQ was what got me into mmos in the first place. Outside of LOTR I probably spent more time in that game than any other.
I'm more than aware of how "things used to be".
Got to be honest though. I hated LDON.
1. For god's sake mmo gamers, enough with the analogies. They're unnecessary and your comparisons are terrible, dissimilar, and illogical.
2. To posters feeling the need to state how f2p really isn't f2p: Players understand the concept. You aren't privy to some secret the rest are missing. You're embarrassing yourself.
3. Yes, Cpt. Obvious, we're not industry experts. Now run along and let the big people use the forums for their purpose.
As simple as you can get? OK, you're a mesmer with greatsword and scepter/focus for the weapon sets. You're in combat. When would you use mesmer focus 4?
Do you have any idea how laughable this is? This is your counter argument? Really?
Here's the point. The combat system has far more depth than appears on the surface. Most of the skills are multi-faceted... having a base damage element in addition to secondary effects or tactical effects. I like to use mesmer focus 4 because it's one of my favorites. What it does seems simple on the surface... it creates, basically, a line on the ground. If you run through that line, you get a speed boost. If a foe runs through it, they get crippled. So right away we can see that it's not a "spam on cooldown" skill... you need to use it tactically. The beauty of it, though, is in the secondary effects. When you cast it, the skill on your bar changes to a shatter option. When you shatter the line foes in the area are pulled towards it. This is where it really begins to shine. You can not only use it for a speed boost or cripple, you can also use it to pull foes towards you if you wish. You can place it behind or to the side of foes to pull them away from you or an ally giving you more distance. Or, to really get a giggle out of it, you can use it to toss foes off cliffs and walls in WvW. Nothing like making it rain enemies on a sunny day.
Even skills that seem far simpler are better used with a tactical eye. Take the aforementioned great sword. Skill one is your base flat line dps skill. Skill 2 tosses and illusionary great sword at the foe applying damage. However, it also has a bounce effect; it;ll bounce between the foe and allies and apply might to allies in the area. If you see an ally closing on or near the target, timing that so they get the advantage of the bounces is beneficial. In addition, it'll create a clone at your first target. This means you also have the ability to use this skill to create a quick shatter bomb. For example, I'll often start with GS4, which creates a phantasm that damages and cripples the foe. This slows them down and gives me space. Then, since I'm traited for it, I'll dodge to create a clone and follow that with GS2. Bang, three illusions just like that... shatter. Dodge again for another quick clone and the fight is on.
These are just some simple examples of the skills associated with the weapons... it doesn't even cover how you can further change your gameplay with a deck of utility skills to select from and barely scratches the surface on how traits can completely modify your gameplay. Funny example (to me) of how traits have an effect on play style... you know the Fractal with the Ascalonians? It changes you to a Fire Legion charr. However, there was a bug... the trait to create a clone on dodge doesn't work when you're transformed in there. You have no idea how much that screwed me up or how many dodges I did out of habit expecting my shiny little portable weapon that never arrived.
So yes, that's one counter argument against the alleged simplicity of the game.
Isn't needed or remotely necessary for shit PvE wise.
I already said PvP wise the game shines. It is in regards to PvE the game is weak as fuck.
1. For god's sake mmo gamers, enough with the analogies. They're unnecessary and your comparisons are terrible, dissimilar, and illogical.
2. To posters feeling the need to state how f2p really isn't f2p: Players understand the concept. You aren't privy to some secret the rest are missing. You're embarrassing yourself.
3. Yes, Cpt. Obvious, we're not industry experts. Now run along and let the big people use the forums for their purpose.
Not sure what your point is considering EQ was what got me into mmos in the first place. Outside of LOTR I probably spent more time in that game than any other.
EQ is somewhat offtopic and i was mentioning EQ because both WOW/GW2 and other mmos have players that bail the group when things start going bad -- such as they die once
you say GW2 dungeons were easy for you on your first try
im assuming no one dropped from your group after they got killed?
Writing the word shallow and dont explain why is the same thing to write the word sucks both means nothing if you can't explain why.
i agree - "one word" adjectives without detailing why - are meaningless
Because PvE wise you can accomplish anything with a pug group? With little struggle.
The game gives new meaning to tank and spank (Yes...I know how that will bring down the mighty throws of the lemmings that somehow feel not having a trinity nullifies the concept) the likes I have never seen. Albeit exploration mode does involve a working brain to a degree. Story mode simply involves nothing more than a full group bashing into the foray besides a few selective encounters.
From a "PvE" perspective the game is seriously shallow. I would, however, differ far as PvP goes...
Difficulty and depth are quite different beasts. Incidentally, its worth re-iterating that people often confuse repetitive grindy mechanics, bigger numbers and various other forms of gating as difficulty anyway.
Not sure what your point is considering EQ was what got me into mmos in the first place. Outside of LOTR I probably spent more time in that game than any other.
EQ is somewhat offtopic and i was mentioning EQ because both WOW/GW2 and other mmos have players that bail the group when things start going bad -- such as they die once
you say GW2 dungeons were easy for you on your first try
im assuming no one dropped from your group after they got killed?
No
Maybe it is my stellar personality XD
Did play on launch so that does tend to have peeps "try harder" I suppose. Still not sure what the problem is considering how easy they were. The end of the initial origin story line was especially annoying and simplistic.
1. For god's sake mmo gamers, enough with the analogies. They're unnecessary and your comparisons are terrible, dissimilar, and illogical.
2. To posters feeling the need to state how f2p really isn't f2p: Players understand the concept. You aren't privy to some secret the rest are missing. You're embarrassing yourself.
3. Yes, Cpt. Obvious, we're not industry experts. Now run along and let the big people use the forums for their purpose.
Isn't needed or remotely necessary for shit PvE wise.
I already said PvP wise the game shines. It is in regards to PvE the game is weak as fuck.
So, basically, you choose to ignore the tactical elements of the skills in PvE, therefore you declare the game "weak as fuck". I choose to combat PvE similar to PvP, using skills to their full effects (except tossing things off cliffs... doesn't work on mobs) and I find it rather complex and fun.
Comments
A game can be extremly indeapth and complex yet it can also be very casual friendly, EvE can both be played as hardcore complex game as the sametime it can be played very casual It's all about how you play the game and how you see it and how you understand it.
So I fail to see your point.
If it's not broken, you are not innovating.
May I ask why you care so much? Do you have shares in ANet? Calm down, some people find the game shallow, you don't; is any further crap required on the subject?
Ok then I stand corected.
There is no game to this date that is not shallow with that defenition.
If it's not broken, you are not innovating.
Are you seriously implying GW2 is " in depth". The game is about as simple as you can get. Not knocking it but come on now...
1. For god's sake mmo gamers, enough with the analogies. They're unnecessary and your comparisons are terrible, dissimilar, and illogical.
2. To posters feeling the need to state how f2p really isn't f2p: Players understand the concept. You aren't privy to some secret the rest are missing. You're embarrassing yourself.
3. Yes, Cpt. Obvious, we're not industry experts. Now run along and let the big people use the forums for their purpose.
Writing the word shallow and dont explain why is the same thing to write the word sucks both means nothing if you can't explain why.
If it's not broken, you are not innovating.
If you really understand that you wouldn't have made a topic just to insult casual gamers now would you? call them punks and blame devs for catering more to people with jobs and family? i am just going by what you have said.
I think it is you who need to understand this point better because i have already mentioned i don't believe in hardcore or casual mindset at all.
"The problem is that the hardcore folks always want the same thing: 'We want exactly what you gave us before, but it has to be completely different.'
-Jesse Schell
"Online gamers are the most ludicrously entitled beings since Caligula made his horse a senator, and at least the horse never said anything stupid."
-Luke McKinney
Why do you qoute me from another post to fuel your argument when I didn't want to talk with you to begin with?
If it's not broken, you are not innovating.
Touche! by the way you did quote me that is why i replied.
"The problem is that the hardcore folks always want the same thing: 'We want exactly what you gave us before, but it has to be completely different.'
-Jesse Schell
"Online gamers are the most ludicrously entitled beings since Caligula made his horse a senator, and at least the horse never said anything stupid."
-Luke McKinney
i agree - "one word" adjectives without detailing why - are meaningless
EQ2 fan sites
As simple as you can get? OK, you're a mesmer with greatsword and scepter/focus for the weapon sets. You're in combat. When would you use mesmer focus 4?
Oderint, dum metuant.
Because PvE wise you can accomplish anything with a pug group? With little struggle.
The game gives new meaning to tank and spank (Yes...I know how that will bring down the mighty throws of the lemmings that somehow feel not having a trinity nullifies the concept) the likes I have never seen. Albeit exploration mode does involve a working brain to a degree. Story mode simply involves nothing more than a full group bashing into the foray besides a few selective encounters.
From a "PvE" perspective the game is seriously shallow. I would, however, differ far as PvP goes...
1. For god's sake mmo gamers, enough with the analogies. They're unnecessary and your comparisons are terrible, dissimilar, and illogical.
2. To posters feeling the need to state how f2p really isn't f2p: Players understand the concept. You aren't privy to some secret the rest are missing. You're embarrassing yourself.
3. Yes, Cpt. Obvious, we're not industry experts. Now run along and let the big people use the forums for their purpose.
this is a personal truth for you
i dont relate -- chance at gear drops can make fights more exciting but its not the "be all" for me
GW2 mobs do die much easier if you scale down from upper levels, there is a sense of power when you scale down
EQ2 fan sites
Do you have any idea how laughable this is? This is your counter argument? Really?
1. For god's sake mmo gamers, enough with the analogies. They're unnecessary and your comparisons are terrible, dissimilar, and illogical.
2. To posters feeling the need to state how f2p really isn't f2p: Players understand the concept. You aren't privy to some secret the rest are missing. You're embarrassing yourself.
3. Yes, Cpt. Obvious, we're not industry experts. Now run along and let the big people use the forums for their purpose.
GW2 does not have raids - so yes, i would hope that anything can be accomplished with a PUG
i used to PUG dungeons in Everquest all the time
EQ2 fan sites
Through trial and error yes. But I have never been able to pug everything the first time through PvE wise like I did in GW2.
As I said before, from a PvP perspective the game has value. Far as PvE goes...you can get a much better challenge from other games available for sale.
Raids withstanding because I hate how cumbersome those tend to be. Although to be fair they have gotten a hell of a lot better than in the old days.
1. For god's sake mmo gamers, enough with the analogies. They're unnecessary and your comparisons are terrible, dissimilar, and illogical.
2. To posters feeling the need to state how f2p really isn't f2p: Players understand the concept. You aren't privy to some secret the rest are missing. You're embarrassing yourself.
3. Yes, Cpt. Obvious, we're not industry experts. Now run along and let the big people use the forums for their purpose.
http://lyrics.iztok.org/verse/Lynyrd_Skynyrd/Simple_Man/80615
I wasnt as fortunate as you but having PUG members that bail after they get killed didnt help
in Everquest, people didnt bail dungeons unless they had other things to do
plus it helped that you could spend hours in the dungeon - and see other player groups
im not a fan of instanced dungeons (popularized by WOW)
i did like EQ LDON but public dungeons were always more fun
EQ2 fan sites
Not sure what your point is considering EQ was what got me into mmos in the first place. Outside of LOTR I probably spent more time in that game than any other.
I'm more than aware of how "things used to be".
Got to be honest though. I hated LDON.
1. For god's sake mmo gamers, enough with the analogies. They're unnecessary and your comparisons are terrible, dissimilar, and illogical.
2. To posters feeling the need to state how f2p really isn't f2p: Players understand the concept. You aren't privy to some secret the rest are missing. You're embarrassing yourself.
3. Yes, Cpt. Obvious, we're not industry experts. Now run along and let the big people use the forums for their purpose.
Here's the point. The combat system has far more depth than appears on the surface. Most of the skills are multi-faceted... having a base damage element in addition to secondary effects or tactical effects. I like to use mesmer focus 4 because it's one of my favorites. What it does seems simple on the surface... it creates, basically, a line on the ground. If you run through that line, you get a speed boost. If a foe runs through it, they get crippled. So right away we can see that it's not a "spam on cooldown" skill... you need to use it tactically. The beauty of it, though, is in the secondary effects. When you cast it, the skill on your bar changes to a shatter option. When you shatter the line foes in the area are pulled towards it. This is where it really begins to shine. You can not only use it for a speed boost or cripple, you can also use it to pull foes towards you if you wish. You can place it behind or to the side of foes to pull them away from you or an ally giving you more distance. Or, to really get a giggle out of it, you can use it to toss foes off cliffs and walls in WvW. Nothing like making it rain enemies on a sunny day.
Even skills that seem far simpler are better used with a tactical eye. Take the aforementioned great sword. Skill one is your base flat line dps skill. Skill 2 tosses and illusionary great sword at the foe applying damage. However, it also has a bounce effect; it;ll bounce between the foe and allies and apply might to allies in the area. If you see an ally closing on or near the target, timing that so they get the advantage of the bounces is beneficial. In addition, it'll create a clone at your first target. This means you also have the ability to use this skill to create a quick shatter bomb. For example, I'll often start with GS4, which creates a phantasm that damages and cripples the foe. This slows them down and gives me space. Then, since I'm traited for it, I'll dodge to create a clone and follow that with GS2. Bang, three illusions just like that... shatter. Dodge again for another quick clone and the fight is on.
These are just some simple examples of the skills associated with the weapons... it doesn't even cover how you can further change your gameplay with a deck of utility skills to select from and barely scratches the surface on how traits can completely modify your gameplay. Funny example (to me) of how traits have an effect on play style... you know the Fractal with the Ascalonians? It changes you to a Fire Legion charr. However, there was a bug... the trait to create a clone on dodge doesn't work when you're transformed in there. You have no idea how much that screwed me up or how many dodges I did out of habit expecting my shiny little portable weapon that never arrived.
So yes, that's one counter argument against the alleged simplicity of the game.
Oderint, dum metuant.
Isn't needed or remotely necessary for shit PvE wise.
I already said PvP wise the game shines. It is in regards to PvE the game is weak as fuck.
1. For god's sake mmo gamers, enough with the analogies. They're unnecessary and your comparisons are terrible, dissimilar, and illogical.
2. To posters feeling the need to state how f2p really isn't f2p: Players understand the concept. You aren't privy to some secret the rest are missing. You're embarrassing yourself.
3. Yes, Cpt. Obvious, we're not industry experts. Now run along and let the big people use the forums for their purpose.
EQ is somewhat offtopic and i was mentioning EQ because both WOW/GW2 and other mmos have players that bail the group when things start going bad -- such as they die once
you say GW2 dungeons were easy for you on your first try
im assuming no one dropped from your group after they got killed?
EQ2 fan sites
Difficulty and depth are quite different beasts. Incidentally, its worth re-iterating that people often confuse repetitive grindy mechanics, bigger numbers and various other forms of gating as difficulty anyway.
No
Maybe it is my stellar personality XD
Did play on launch so that does tend to have peeps "try harder" I suppose. Still not sure what the problem is considering how easy they were. The end of the initial origin story line was especially annoying and simplistic.
1. For god's sake mmo gamers, enough with the analogies. They're unnecessary and your comparisons are terrible, dissimilar, and illogical.
2. To posters feeling the need to state how f2p really isn't f2p: Players understand the concept. You aren't privy to some secret the rest are missing. You're embarrassing yourself.
3. Yes, Cpt. Obvious, we're not industry experts. Now run along and let the big people use the forums for their purpose.
So, basically, you choose to ignore the tactical elements of the skills in PvE, therefore you declare the game "weak as fuck". I choose to combat PvE similar to PvP, using skills to their full effects (except tossing things off cliffs... doesn't work on mobs) and I find it rather complex and fun.
I think the weak element may not be the game.
Oderint, dum metuant.