Difficulty and depth are quite different beasts. Incidentally, its worth re-iterating that people often confuse repetitive grindy mechanics, bigger numbers and various other forms of gating as difficulty anyway.
/sigh
Not sure why you folks need to go this route. I'm not saying if I had to do the same thing umpteen times to get the gear to do something else umpteen times that would be better.
Isn't my point at all. What I am saying is in some earlier games it took more than a few runs to complete the dungeon. Or at the very least some planning with classes or objectives. Can't say I had that happen once in GW2 whether it was in relation to DEs or dungeons.
On a bright note though, I didn't pay a sub so overall the purchase was worth it. Simply not from a PvE perspective. PvP wise though far as mmos go you cannot beat it.
Least considering the way gamers play the genre today.
1. For god's sake mmo gamers, enough with the analogies. They're unnecessary and your comparisons are terrible, dissimilar, and illogical.
2. To posters feeling the need to state how f2p really isn't f2p: Players understand the concept. You aren't privy to some secret the rest are missing. You're embarrassing yourself.
3. Yes, Cpt. Obvious, we're not industry experts. Now run along and let the big people use the forums for their purpose.
Isn't needed or remotely necessary for shit PvE wise.
I already said PvP wise the game shines. It is in regards to PvE the game is weak as fuck.
So, basically, you choose to ignore the tactical elements of the skills in PvE, therefore you declare the game "weak as fuck". I choose to combat PvE similar to PvP, using skills to their full effects (except tossing things off cliffs... doesn't work on mobs) and I find it rather complex and fun.
I think the weak element may not be the game.
Mmkay...yet we completed everything. So what was weak again?
1. For god's sake mmo gamers, enough with the analogies. They're unnecessary and your comparisons are terrible, dissimilar, and illogical.
2. To posters feeling the need to state how f2p really isn't f2p: Players understand the concept. You aren't privy to some secret the rest are missing. You're embarrassing yourself.
3. Yes, Cpt. Obvious, we're not industry experts. Now run along and let the big people use the forums for their purpose.
Isn't needed or remotely necessary for shit PvE wise.
I already said PvP wise the game shines. It is in regards to PvE the game is weak as fuck.
So, basically, you choose to ignore the tactical elements of the skills in PvE, therefore you declare the game "weak as fuck". I choose to combat PvE similar to PvP, using skills to their full effects (except tossing things off cliffs... doesn't work on mobs) and I find it rather complex and fun.
I think the weak element may not be the game.
Mmkay...yet we completed everything. So what was weak again?
From your description of things, if you in fact "completed everything" (whetever the hell that means) you make it sound as though you were carried through the more challenging content. By your descriptions of things and your dismissiveness of the tactical elements of skills I'm still inclined to believe you are, indeed, the weak element.
Isn't needed or remotely necessary for shit PvE wise.
I already said PvP wise the game shines. It is in regards to PvE the game is weak as fuck.
So, basically, you choose to ignore the tactical elements of the skills in PvE, therefore you declare the game "weak as fuck". I choose to combat PvE similar to PvP, using skills to their full effects (except tossing things off cliffs... doesn't work on mobs) and I find it rather complex and fun.
I think the weak element may not be the game.
Mmkay...yet we completed everything. So what was weak again?
From your description of things, if you in fact "completed everything" (whetever the hell that means) you make it sound as though you were carried through the more challenging content. By your descriptions of things and your dismissiveness of the tactical elements of skills I'm still inclined to believe you are, indeed, the weak element.
Lol...whatever helps you sleep at night. Amazing how I was able to do all the dungeons being "carried". Guess I'm just pro.
>_>
1. For god's sake mmo gamers, enough with the analogies. They're unnecessary and your comparisons are terrible, dissimilar, and illogical.
2. To posters feeling the need to state how f2p really isn't f2p: Players understand the concept. You aren't privy to some secret the rest are missing. You're embarrassing yourself.
3. Yes, Cpt. Obvious, we're not industry experts. Now run along and let the big people use the forums for their purpose.
I bought GW2 for what I hoped was world class,thoughtful, stategic, fun ,World vs World gameplay.I couldn't be more disappointed with the frenzied, thougtless zerg thats more like a basketball game to see who can score the most points in a mad scramble lasting weeks.(after which you act like nothing ever happened and start all over ! )
Now I play no mmog.I play SKYRIM(I'm blown away frankly)...and have hopes for Elder Scrolls Online.
The 3 million copies sold...says to me Areannet has gotten the message the games fine.It may be for others...but NOT for me.
I bought GW2 for what I hoped was world class,thoughtful, stategic, fun ,World vs World gameplay.I couldn't be more disappointed with the frenzied, thougtless zerg thats more like a basketball game to see who can score the most points in a mad scramble lasting weeks.(after which you act like nothing ever happened and start all over ! )
Now I play no mmog.I play SKYRIM(I'm blown away frankly)...and have hopes for Elder Scrolls Online.
The 3 million copies sold...says to me Areannet has gotten the message the games fine.It may be for others...but NOT for me.
Skyrim is a lot of fun... check out some of the mods if you really want to go crazy in there! Great game in it's own right.
Regarding WvW, did you find a good WvW guild with teamspeak and all that going on? Good commanders, etc? If not, and you ever decide to have another go at it, hop onto Jade Quarry and check the WvW there. Some great WvW guilds, great commanders and an overall fun experience. You'd be most welcome and may just find there's a lot more to it than may have initally met the eye.
I am saying that 3 million sold units for a triple A B2P RPG is nothing special. Many B2P RPGs sold more than that and D3 was just one example, so 3 million is perhaps above average for a triple A title.
Hell even subscriber based RPGs like AoC and SW:TOR sold over a million units, so 3 million for a B2P one is nothing special.
context from wiki -- this is all time sales -- not just sales for 5 months
i could be wrong but i think its realistic that GW2 will sell at least 10 million over a 3 year period
-- if it does, that places GW2 in top 10 PC games of all time for best sellers
This is an important point to make. 3 Million units is the total to date. I think there were around 2 million units sold by the end of September. An additional milion units in the 4th quarter is very solid for ongoing MMO sales.
However, this also provides some important information on the success of the B2P business model. GW2 produced $110US revenue in Q4. Unit Sales directly from Arenanet may provide $60/unit revenue, but with the wholesale prices for units sold through other retailers, the average revenue per unti sold would be less than $60/unit.
The wholesale price is probably closer to $36/unit. It's not unreasonable to guesstimate that the average revenue per unit is somewhere around $45. That would mean ~$65 million in revenue was produced via gem sales. That's pretty healthy revenue. Roughly the equivalent of the revenue produced by a subscription based game with a paying player base of over 1.4 million players! (If all 3 million GW2 accounts were being actively played, that would mean roughly half the revenue per account as a subscription based game, but few AAA MMOs released in recent years can boast of 700,000 active, paying subscribers).
These numbers look even better, relative to the competition, when you consider how many of the AAA P2P titles released in recent years have transitioned to F2P models, in some cases less than a year after the initial release.
GW2 will continue to build the total player base via box sales over time. Among that playerbase, people will come and go as far as active play time goes, but the expanding pool should continue to provide enough active, gem purchasing players to maintain and even grow the revenue stream over time.
Guessing this is great news for Ncsoft since Gw2 and Blade & Souls which last heard seemed to be doing well in Korea were they're two main drivers of revenue.
Didn't the game have around $45-$46 mill in revenues at the end of 3rd quarter 2012?At that point there were 2 mill plus box sales.End of 3rd quarter was Sept 30 and 2 mill was announced as sold on Sept 13th.
Not saying they did bad,but $48 of $60 would be probably $18 plus dollar's over what companies actually get.Pretty sure I saw the game on sale online for $40 over the holidays,it was a short sale but still.I don't see a store taking an $8 loss even for a day or 2.
$48 a box just doesn't come close to the financial's I read.
That's the same with most video game companies they don't tend to make money or rather showed the money earned in the quarterly earnings that month. E.g Take-Two routines has drops in revenue during quarters when they realise games during those quarters. Partially to marketing etc without taking into account revnue from the game itself. As stated in the link It was expected they mention they're be earnings from Q4 onwards not Q3. Which is par for course. Also the $48 came from NcSoft.
So nyah nyah .. whatever. Is that what you wanted? The server count is small, from what I saw. Each server is dead, from what I saw. My observation. Good day.
your observation is wrong : ) at least my server is pretty active, oh yes at 03:00 am its a ghost world ... yes ...
Another naysayer - just wanting to prove he is right above all information to the contrary. Why are people so blind and dumb?
So nyah nyah .. whatever. Is that what you wanted?
The server count is small, from what I saw.
Each server is dead, from what I saw.
My observation. Good day.
your observation is wrong : ) at least my server is pretty active, oh yes at 03:00 am its a ghost world ... yes ...
Another naysayer - just wanting to prove he is right above all information to the contrary. Why are people so blind and dumb?
So when people actually SEE people and TALK to people and do EVENTS with people.....they are naysayers and blind and dumb???? OK I think I'm done with these forums, people seem to hate a game so much they resort to these kind off posts....unbelievable
There is still a significant number of people playing.
What I don't understand is why hasn't the stock gone up.
What I don't know is cost of production, how is the cash shop doing.
What I think is that the 5+ year production is more than what most orginally thought. Retention is lower than what was expected by the majority of the mmorpg community.
NCSoft isn't only Arenanet.
Arenanet has between 250 and 300 employees now.
On average, over the 5 years of development, lets consider 200 people, earning an average of $75K/year, which is on the high side for a game designer. Some people will earn more than that, but those 200 people aren't all game designers and will earn a lot less.
That is $15M a year or $75M development cost.
Considering the 2M sales far exceeded their expectations, I doubt the budget was over $30-50M.
They recently have sold 3 Millions, half of that from their own site, earning them something like $50. The rest lets assume they make $20 (30%).
1.5M*50= $75M
1.5M*20= $30M
Even if the budget was $75M, they already made a $30M. If the budget was $30M then they made $75M.
Then you have gems.
Lets assume around 10% of the players buy around $10/month in gems. That would be 300K players, but let make it 100K players (or 3% of all boxes sales).
100K*($10*4 months)= Another $4M.
I'll dig some NCSoft reports to check the amount of money Anet was draining.
Brb.
The thing is their 3rd qt report showed 48 million total. Analyst predicted that 1st qt 2013 will be much less due to sales being up front. This is what promted the the 50% loss of stock value.
There is still a significant number of people playing.
What I don't understand is why hasn't the stock gone up.
What I don't know is cost of production, how is the cash shop doing.
What I think is that the 5+ year production is more than what most orginally thought. Retention is lower than what was expected by the majority of the mmorpg community.
NCSoft isn't only Arenanet.
Arenanet has between 250 and 300 employees now.
On average, over the 5 years of development, lets consider 200 people, earning an average of $75K/year, which is on the high side for a game designer. Some people will earn more than that, but those 200 people aren't all game designers and will earn a lot less.
That is $15M a year or $75M development cost.
Considering the 2M sales far exceeded their expectations, I doubt the budget was over $30-50M.
They recently have sold 3 Millions, half of that from their own site, earning them something like $50. The rest lets assume they make $20 (30%).
1.5M*50= $75M
1.5M*20= $30M
Even if the budget was $75M, they already made a $30M. If the budget was $30M then they made $75M.
Then you have gems.
Lets assume around 10% of the players buy around $10/month in gems. That would be 300K players, but let make it 100K players (or 3% of all boxes sales).
100K*($10*4 months)= Another $4M.
I'll dig some NCSoft reports to check the amount of money Anet was draining.
Brb.
The thing is their 3rd qt report showed 48 million total. Analyst predicted that 1st qt 2013 will be much less due to sales being up front. This is what promted the the 50% loss of stock value.
It fell by 10%. And Q4 will very telling of this whole thing, though like I said games companies tend to post they're profts in the following quarter, for a host of reasons, right now for NcSoft investors will be keenly looking at the Q4 results.
Difficulty and depth are quite different beasts. Incidentally, its worth re-iterating that people often confuse repetitive grindy mechanics, bigger numbers and various other forms of gating as difficulty anyway.
/sigh
Not sure why you folks need to go this route. I'm not saying if I had to do the same thing umpteen times to get the gear to do something else umpteen times that would be better.
Isn't my point at all. What I am saying is in some earlier games it took more than a few runs to complete the dungeon. Or at the very least some planning with classes or objectives. Can't say I had that happen once in GW2 whether it was in relation to DEs or dungeons.
On a bright note though, I didn't pay a sub so overall the purchase was worth it. Simply not from a PvE perspective. PvP wise though far as mmos go you cannot beat it.
Least considering the way gamers play the genre today.
Sure, though you can challenge yourself somewhat in GW2. Just saying all those other games aren't really difficult either. Being unforgiving dosen,t make an MMO difficult, gating dosent make a game difficult. Having to learn a couple of boss paterns does not make a game difficult. Maybe this does not apply to you but a lot of people that are shouting out for difficulty confuse difficulty with unforgiving. These are the guys that often call themselves 'hardcore'. MMO's aren't really difficult to 'learn' compared to say doing MIT lectures in disciplines that are alien to you.
As you say pvp is a whole other kettle of fish, we can agree on that.
So nyah nyah .. whatever. Is that what you wanted?
The server count is small, from what I saw.
Each server is dead, from what I saw.
My observation. Good day.
your observation is wrong : ) at least my server is pretty active, oh yes at 03:00 am its a ghost world ... yes ...
Another naysayer - just wanting to prove he is right above all information to the contrary. Why are people so blind and dumb?
i am not blind and dump, i know where has problems GW2 and its not my best game, but its one of the best games these days, trying to prove the opposite cause its not your title its so wrong ...
this post sounds more logical and have some points to argument, not statements like the above ....
these are just copies sold which i can believe but i can tell you that there is no where near that about of people playing this game. I played the game religeously since release I do believe at one point the game did have atleast 400k concurrent users thats about the only statement I heard to be true from them. At this point I believe the game may only have at best 50k concurrent users. I actually believe it to be less 15-20k but im being nice.
All of the servers are more or less dead. Only 2 servers on NA an EU can barely fill WvW on a reset. all of the zones are empty with events that cant be completed when exploring you pretty much only see bots. Where are these people? they have a milllion people doing fractals? I don't think so. I would also point out that SPVP is a ghost town and might i remind you that spvp browser is your region so yup when you see only 200 people in the broswer thats it for all of north america which is pretty bad. Sorry I am not seeing the numbers they are coming up with.
All of the servers are more or less dead. Only 2 servers on NA an EU can barely fill WvW on a reset. all of the zones are empty with events that cant be completed when exploring you pretty much only see bots. Where are these people? they have a milllion people doing fractals? I don't think so. I would also point out that SPVP is a ghost town and might i remind you that spvp browser is your region so yup when you see only 200 people in the broswer thats it for all of north america which is pretty bad. Sorry I am not seeing the numbers they are coming up with.
I think the game is in a lot of trouble.
Can't say on the sPvP, haven't gotten into that yet.
these are just copies sold which i can believe but i can tell you that there is no where near that about of people playing this game. I played the game religeously since release I do believe at one point the game did have atleast 400k concurrent users thats about the only statement I heard to be true from them. At this point I believe the game may only have at best 50k concurrent users. I actually believe it to be less 15-20k but im being nice.
All of the servers are more or less dead. Only 2 servers on NA an EU can barely fill WvW on a reset. all of the zones are empty with events that cant be completed when exploring you pretty much only see bots. Where are these people? they have a milllion people doing fractals? I don't think so. I would also point out that SPVP is a ghost town and might i remind you that spvp browser is your region so yup when you see only 200 people in the broswer thats it for all of north america which is pretty bad. Sorry I am not seeing the numbers they are coming up with.
I think the game is in a lot of trouble.
Maybe they are all playing around me...
Cause I keep seeing dozens of people during my play sessions
Currently playing: GW2 Going cardboard starter kit: Ticket to ride, Pandemic, Carcassonne, Dominion, 7 Wonders
these are just copies sold which i can believe but i can tell you that there is no where near that about of people playing this game. I played the game religeously since release I do believe at one point the game did have atleast 400k concurrent users thats about the only statement I heard to be true from them. At this point I believe the game may only have at best 50k concurrent users. I actually believe it to be less 15-20k but im being nice.
All of the servers are more or less dead. Only 2 servers on NA an EU can barely fill WvW on a reset. all of the zones are empty with events that cant be completed when exploring you pretty much only see bots. Where are these people? they have a milllion people doing fractals? I don't think so. I would also point out that SPVP is a ghost town and might i remind you that spvp browser is your region so yup when you see only 200 people in the broswer thats it for all of north america which is pretty bad. Sorry I am not seeing the numbers they are coming up with.
I think the game is in a lot of trouble.
Oh noes it's XXDOOMSAYERXX, he can tell the future regarding the best MMORPG to date and it's downfall!
I have no idea where you get your data from or your predictions regarding the state of the game that millions are playing.
All of the servers are more or less dead. Only 2 servers on NA an EU can barely fill WvW on a reset. all of the zones are empty with events that cant be completed when exploring you pretty much only see bots. Where are these people?
Took about 5min for people to show up for Dragon DE on Far Shiverpeaks EU server few hours ago.
While I took this screenshot there were people behind me aswell.
The thing is their 3rd qt report showed 48 million total. Analyst predicted that 1st qt 2013 will be much less due to sales being up front. This is what promted the the 50% loss of stock value.
I missed that - you have link? i only recall analyst talking about Q4 2012
Originally posted by nerbon try planetside 2 if you wonna real twitchy combat i dont really like wow but still wow has like 100time more players then gw2
Played PS2 - would rather poke my eyes out with all the bots and cheaters there.
WoW? how many skills bars to you want? and Would you like to macro those skills while at it? SOrry - I played the beta of WoW and the combat was worse then GW1 - that is why I played GW1 over WoW.
Comments
/sigh
Not sure why you folks need to go this route. I'm not saying if I had to do the same thing umpteen times to get the gear to do something else umpteen times that would be better.
Isn't my point at all. What I am saying is in some earlier games it took more than a few runs to complete the dungeon. Or at the very least some planning with classes or objectives. Can't say I had that happen once in GW2 whether it was in relation to DEs or dungeons.
On a bright note though, I didn't pay a sub so overall the purchase was worth it. Simply not from a PvE perspective. PvP wise though far as mmos go you cannot beat it.
Least considering the way gamers play the genre today.
1. For god's sake mmo gamers, enough with the analogies. They're unnecessary and your comparisons are terrible, dissimilar, and illogical.
2. To posters feeling the need to state how f2p really isn't f2p: Players understand the concept. You aren't privy to some secret the rest are missing. You're embarrassing yourself.
3. Yes, Cpt. Obvious, we're not industry experts. Now run along and let the big people use the forums for their purpose.
Mmkay...yet we completed everything. So what was weak again?
1. For god's sake mmo gamers, enough with the analogies. They're unnecessary and your comparisons are terrible, dissimilar, and illogical.
2. To posters feeling the need to state how f2p really isn't f2p: Players understand the concept. You aren't privy to some secret the rest are missing. You're embarrassing yourself.
3. Yes, Cpt. Obvious, we're not industry experts. Now run along and let the big people use the forums for their purpose.
From your description of things, if you in fact "completed everything" (whetever the hell that means) you make it sound as though you were carried through the more challenging content. By your descriptions of things and your dismissiveness of the tactical elements of skills I'm still inclined to believe you are, indeed, the weak element.
Oderint, dum metuant.
Lol...whatever helps you sleep at night. Amazing how I was able to do all the dungeons being "carried". Guess I'm just pro.
>_>
1. For god's sake mmo gamers, enough with the analogies. They're unnecessary and your comparisons are terrible, dissimilar, and illogical.
2. To posters feeling the need to state how f2p really isn't f2p: Players understand the concept. You aren't privy to some secret the rest are missing. You're embarrassing yourself.
3. Yes, Cpt. Obvious, we're not industry experts. Now run along and let the big people use the forums for their purpose.
I bought GW2 for what I hoped was world class,thoughtful, stategic, fun ,World vs World gameplay.I couldn't be more disappointed with the frenzied, thougtless zerg thats more like a basketball game to see who can score the most points in a mad scramble lasting weeks.(after which you act like nothing ever happened and start all over ! )
Now I play no mmog.I play SKYRIM(I'm blown away frankly)...and have hopes for Elder Scrolls Online.
The 3 million copies sold...says to me Areannet has gotten the message the games fine.It may be for others...but NOT for me.
Skyrim is a lot of fun... check out some of the mods if you really want to go crazy in there! Great game in it's own right.
Regarding WvW, did you find a good WvW guild with teamspeak and all that going on? Good commanders, etc? If not, and you ever decide to have another go at it, hop onto Jade Quarry and check the WvW there. Some great WvW guilds, great commanders and an overall fun experience. You'd be most welcome and may just find there's a lot more to it than may have initally met the eye.
Oderint, dum metuant.
That's the same with most video game companies they don't tend to make money or rather showed the money earned in the quarterly earnings that month. E.g Take-Two routines has drops in revenue during quarters when they realise games during those quarters. Partially to marketing etc without taking into account revnue from the game itself. As stated in the link It was expected they mention they're be earnings from Q4 onwards not Q3. Which is par for course. Also the $48 came from NcSoft.
your observation is wrong : ) at least my server is pretty active, oh yes at 03:00 am its a ghost world ... yes ...
your observation is wrong : ) at least my server is pretty active, oh yes at 03:00 am its a ghost world ... yes ...
Another naysayer - just wanting to prove he is right above all information to the contrary. Why are people so blind and dumb?So when people actually SEE people and TALK to people and do EVENTS with people.....they are naysayers and blind and dumb???? OK I think I'm done with these forums, people seem to hate a game so much they resort to these kind off posts....unbelievable
The thing is their 3rd qt report showed 48 million total. Analyst predicted that 1st qt 2013 will be much less due to sales being up front. This is what promted the the 50% loss of stock value.
It fell by 10%. And Q4 will very telling of this whole thing, though like I said games companies tend to post they're profts in the following quarter, for a host of reasons, right now for NcSoft investors will be keenly looking at the Q4 results.
Sure, though you can challenge yourself somewhat in GW2. Just saying all those other games aren't really difficult either. Being unforgiving dosen,t make an MMO difficult, gating dosent make a game difficult. Having to learn a couple of boss paterns does not make a game difficult. Maybe this does not apply to you but a lot of people that are shouting out for difficulty confuse difficulty with unforgiving. These are the guys that often call themselves 'hardcore'. MMO's aren't really difficult to 'learn' compared to say doing MIT lectures in disciplines that are alien to you.
As you say pvp is a whole other kettle of fish, we can agree on that.
i am not blind and dump, i know where has problems GW2 and its not my best game, but its one of the best games these days, trying to prove the opposite cause its not your title its so wrong ...
this post sounds more logical and have some points to argument, not statements like the above ....
these are just copies sold which i can believe but i can tell you that there is no where near that about of people playing this game. I played the game religeously since release I do believe at one point the game did have atleast 400k concurrent users thats about the only statement I heard to be true from them. At this point I believe the game may only have at best 50k concurrent users. I actually believe it to be less 15-20k but im being nice.
All of the servers are more or less dead. Only 2 servers on NA an EU can barely fill WvW on a reset. all of the zones are empty with events that cant be completed when exploring you pretty much only see bots. Where are these people? they have a milllion people doing fractals? I don't think so. I would also point out that SPVP is a ghost town and might i remind you that spvp browser is your region so yup when you see only 200 people in the broswer thats it for all of north america which is pretty bad. Sorry I am not seeing the numbers they are coming up with.
I think the game is in a lot of trouble.
Can't say on the sPvP, haven't gotten into that yet.
The rest is full of guano.
Oderint, dum metuant.
Maybe they are all playing around me...
Cause I keep seeing dozens of people during my play sessions
Currently playing: GW2
Going cardboard starter kit: Ticket to ride, Pandemic, Carcassonne, Dominion, 7 Wonders
Are people really debating the depth of combat GW2 vs the competition?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=B_zMPcT2jgc#t=14s
Anyone care to retort against GW2's combat superiority now?
Oh noes it's XXDOOMSAYERXX, he can tell the future regarding the best MMORPG to date and it's downfall!
I have no idea where you get your data from or your predictions regarding the state of the game that millions are playing.
Took about 5min for people to show up for Dragon DE on Far Shiverpeaks EU server few hours ago.
While I took this screenshot there were people behind me aswell.
But I guess all those are botters huh?
If it's not broken, you are not innovating.
I missed that - you have link? i only recall analyst talking about Q4 2012
EQ2 fan sites
Great video.
That+combos is a great combat mechanic in GW2.
If it's not broken, you are not innovating.
i dont really like wow but still wow has like 100time more players then gw2
Played PS2 - would rather poke my eyes out with all the bots and cheaters there.
WoW? how many skills bars to you want? and Would you like to macro those skills while at it? SOrry - I played the beta of WoW and the combat was worse then GW1 - that is why I played GW1 over WoW.