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Mourning- Unethical Business and Horrid Game
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My friend you have no idea what has gone on with those forums for the past three years, no clue whatsoever. I was one of the staunchest supporters of the game for three years when everyone else was bailing, so please dont make it sound like I constantly denigrated the game, because that is not true... So move along.. I would show you some of my positive contributions, but some coward not only banned me (with good reason perhaps) but also deleted over 1700 posts. Have you noticed that the supporters of the game, minus a few long term stalwarts are all relatively new? Because the people that joined the game at the beginning, loved the concepts, and the interaction with the developers, have for the most part moved on. No disrespect to several that are still there, I have had many a good chat with them...
wow, now I call that ban-happy. Look fanobys, mourning publisher+devs are willing to ban their own mods now and delete all there posts.
Looks like spoonbender's prophesy is coming true. Let's see mods leaving, game failing, and the publisher keeps acting like the biggest jerk in the world. Seems like Spoon talked for ALL the mods.
"
I have given up on this game, for a lot of reasons. I know a lot of
people respect me, and my word carries a lot of weight. i cant support this game. I dont want to be the reason countless people buy the game
Let me be absolutely clear on a few points though. There is a game. Its not yet ready for release, but the devs are working their asses off because they want the game to succeed. This is not why I give up. In fact, the devs are the main reason Ive stayed on for so long. Because I like them and trust them, and because I thought they deserved this chance.
But how can a game succeed when the US publisher is the biggest jerk on the face of the planet? A man who has no respect for rules, even when theyre his own, and even less respect for his own customers, and less still for the people trying to work with him?
Ive spent months now, trying to keep people from leaving the community in disgust every time that man opened his mouth. I cant keep up with this level of superhuman stupidity and incompetence.
As a community member, I have to deal with him pissing us all off with arrogant and offensive remarks. I have to deal with this kind of person being in charge of a game Im interested in. I dont trust him to hire decent GMs. I dont trust him to buy decent servers. I dont trust him to fund the development long enough to get the game to a playable state.
As a beta tester, Im still tied by the NDA, and I respect that, for the devs sake. But I can say that you should all be glad youre not testers, because then youd have to put up with even more of Daves crap. You saw what happened with the videos. Some of us get permission to post screenshots and videos, and when we do, he insult us, and tell us not to post any more of either.
As a moderator? Well, dont even get me started. Again, I cant and wont give you any details, because unlike Dave, I have a minimum of respect for rules. But lets just say that if we could, and I speak for *every* mod here, and a few of the devs, we would have banned him countless times already.
And lets just say that you are extremely lucky you dont have to deal with him on the moderators board. Weve always tried to compensate for his incompetence, apologize when he did something stupid, and in general, try to help people deal with the fact of having him in charge. In return, we just have to put up with more crap. We have to put up with personal abuse, general insults, with the fact that the one person who most deserves a ban is outside the rules.
We have to put up with him changing the rules on the forum with no prior notice to us. We have to put up with him randomly deleting threads he doesnt like. We have to put up with him making a new account every week. We have to put up with him deleting an entire subforum for no particular reason, and without ever giving an explanation. We have to deal with him banning people (and moderators), and occasionally even deleting their account completely. We have to put up with being told that we simply dont matter.
[edit]
After posting this, I noticed that he has now even deleted a thread on the moderators forum. We complained about his recent actions, and even there, he deletes threads.
[/edit]
A lot of you have asked why I havent preordered. My answer has always been that I never preorder a MMO. That is true, but its not the full story. The other part of it is that the way things are going now, its not worth preordering. Not because the devs intend to s-c-a-m you, or because the game doesnt exist, or because the CC handling company is a registered spammer, or any of the other crazy conspiracy theories that are floating around.
Simply because the man in chargeof the American release (which is the only one you can preorder) is the most incompetent publisher Ive ever seen.
To summarize:
You probably all know how big a part of a MMO customer service and GMs play. And guess whos in charge of this. You also know how important it is that the devs are given time to develop the game. Guess who makes this decision as well. Youve seen the screenshots and the movies. Make up your own mind on what they show, what they dont show, how they show it, and what it means for the game.
Youve seen their estimates on how many people to invite to beta, and how long it should run for. Compare that to how other games run their beta, and make up your own mind on what that means for the game.
So, in closing, Ill just ask you all to consider this game from an objective point of view. Forget the conspiracy theories. Forget the blind fanboyism and forget the people who want to flame the game. Stick to what you know. Stick to the available screenshots and movies, the info available from devs, the way they keep their promises, the way the publisher acts, the way the community is treated.
Then ask yourself this: Is it worth waiting for? Is it worth preordering?
I know its not worth it for me. It sucks, because the devs are good people, and the ideas behind the game are good. But I dont believe they can pull it off while Dave is involved with the project. And for that reason, they shouldnt count on my support any more. If, as Dave says, we moderators arent important, then theres no harm in me telling everyone why I dont believe in the game. The man in charge has told me nothing I do matters.
Im just sorry I led so many of you into giving this a second, third or twentieth chance when it clearly doesnt deserve it. And Im sorry for the devs who have their dream game tied up on a person like this.
Finally, I suppose I should just mention that I am completely serious in the above. I am not using all this as some kind of threat to get Admini to get his act together, because I dont believe for a second it will happen. I dont trust him to be able to do anything like that.
It is simply what it appears to be, a warning to the community. A warning from someone whos been here longer than most, and had to put up with more than most.
Important edit: (A bit of clarification)
All of this obviously only deals with the US publisher. Ive heard lots of good things about Gamigo, the publisher in Europe/Canada. And as I said, the devs are great, the ideas behind the game are great. So with any luck, the game can get the success it deserves there.
One of my main reasons for all this is that I dont want to be the reason people follow the game. I dont want to be blamed for luring people into believing all is well. I have no wish to hurt the game or the devs. I know that is what Ive done, but I never wanted to do so.
Im not saying the game is doomed. I am saying that I believe it to be doomed, in the US, at least. Not the I believe part. Its up to each of you to decide what you believe."
How about your truly funny and very sad. I really cannot see you living in the USA, like your profile claims. Your grasp of the English language is that of a small child.
Now, please use your own advice. You LOVE flaming mourning noobs(that bought the game and feel ripped off) on the premise of- 1) Not reading the thread and forums and 2) Not using constructive criticism. For some reason, you do neither. All you do is answer with one sentence flames with broken english and no punctuation. I have my sources, links and witnesses posted. Without making personal attacks, please explain why none of this is true........
1. i never said anything you said wasn't ture because it is ture.
2. i never flame anyone who bought the game and got ripped off.
3. the only person who's doing person attack is you
4. i do live in the usa but im not from the usa witch has nothing to do with anything
5. i do think its sad and kinda funny one company can be so dumb there get whats coming to them one way or the other
6. i thought the fbi thing was funny but i took my post down because i shouldn't post it in the frist place.
7 yes my english is bad
I'm not sure I understand. I do aplogize, I thought you said(before it was edited) that this thread was sad and funny. You seem to be one of the biggest fanbois on the mourning board, and one of the last real defenders of the game. Now your telling me Dave's company is dumb/sad and yet you play and defend the game? And that this thread is what was coming to them? Please explain to me how you can support them, and yet at the same time say their dumb? Also, I have seen you say "read the forums" when noobs say they got ripped off or the server is always down.
A few comments:
- People that preordered Mourning and wanted a refund have been refunded so the statement that the ones that preordered were scammed is not true (in fact is a blatant lie as almost all the information on this thread)
- The person that posted those threads on gamespot is a weird case. She (it was a she) bought the game and registered with a wrong email address. Consequently she did not receive the serial. After that she started flaming on the forums even if the community members told her to PM me and I will solve her problem. She did not PM me or send any email to the support department and basically refused any help. Furthermore, we considered the situation when a custmer uses an email address that does not exist when he/she registers so we have a web page where everybody can check the status of their account and can see their serial. She refused to retrieve her serial using the page! Consequently we canceled her account and refunded her.
- Today the company that processed the credit cards for preorders does not do this anymore for Mourning so anybody that got charged for anything related to Mourning after the boxes have been sent has been robbed and consequently I strongly advice him to go to police and report that. The only known case is one of our community member but he could not bring any prove that he has been charged 3 times.
The whole flame with people that got scammed and so on it is a complete lie, everybody that asked for a refund got refunded. There were a few mistakes (like 10) with people that did not get their preorder canceled and other people got their preorder canceled. We assume that other accounts were canceled instead of the needed ones.
Basically we have a thread of 510 posts based on:
1. The statements of a person that believes he is working for PCGamer
2. The statements of another person that thinks she was mistreated.
The customers are like 0.1% of the playerbase and I belive that they do not reflect the general oppinion regarding the game.
Moving to the next point: false advertising (you claim that on fileplanet where the game is listed we advertise the game as it would be finished).
Let me list the features that are put on fileplanet:
1. A state of the art 3D graphics engine which creates an immersive online world experience!
Done (I hope that you do not argue at this point...)
2.Four unique realms to adventure through which include: Human temperate lands, Dwarven snow covered ice lands, Orcish badlands, Elvish deep woods!
Done (there are screenshots on our site with all 4 realms)
3.Four unique starting races which include: Elves, Humans, Dwarves, Orcs
Done. Again there are screenshots on our site with characters from all our races.
4.Questing systems
Done (There are only 2 quests ATM but we are preparing a batch of new quests somewhere in the near future).
5.Mounts and travel
Done! I think that there are screenshots from the game when we are on the horseback. If there are not I will gladly provide them.
6.Player run economies
Done! You can sell, buy and trade items....
7.Guild systems
Done (The guild system was not working right at launch but now it is working with a few small bugs).
8.Dynamic offline crafting & tool sets
Done! You can download them from fileplanet too!!!
9.Melee/Magic combat systems
Done! (It is the skill system and the whole PvP system)
10.Resource harvesting
Done. It also includes crafting.
11.Armor systems, including skill based and multilayering
Done. There are multiple screenshots with characters dressed different.
12.Evolving storyline & lore
Done. We are updating the lore and storyline all the time
Where is the false adevertising I do not know. As long as the features listed on the site are present ingame I do not think that anyone should complain. If you think that those features are not there feel free to prove that to me.
What I find distrurbing is the fact that the people that tell most lies about the game are the ones that never played it and heared something from someone that heared someone that actually played the game.
Egomancer
a
Yet, you traded for 2 months withouth aknowledging it or making it clear on Fileplanet.
Also the features that were implemented in the game, were full of bugs, so in conclusion, when the game had been released, Mourning was still in Alpha (yes....no quests, no crafting system and rest of the features very buggy, means that the game was 50% of its potential, therefore is in Alpha).
I don't doubt that after 2 months, you managed to bring this game from Alpha(features missing) to Beta (features very buggy), but that doesn't make the game ready for release.
If you keep with this pace, it can take not less than 3-4 months before you can consider this game, well........... a game.
Of course I do expect Mourning to have some bugs, like any other MMO out there, but before this game can be sold, 90% of the features needs to work (and 2 quests means that only 0.1% for that particular feature is ready, so way to go).
To be honest, I still don't understand why you keep selling this game as a finished product.
As I mentionened in other posts, there were lots of people ready to pay for Beta.
People would have appreciated your honesty, and would have understood the financial problem that a small company have to face when developing a MMO, but when you try to deceive people in this way, you discourage even those that would like to spend the money for an unfinished product.
The reason is that people doesn't like to be taken for a ride, the sooner you understand that the better (you are digging your own grave, and the more you keep behaving this way, the deeper the grave will get).
Ste2000 the game has been officialy launched on 6th of May, so like 1 month ago
A feature is missing when it is...missing. All the features listed there were coded at launch and partially working (at least). If the feature has a bug then it has a bug, I do not understand what you do not get it? . Regarding the quest system you can say that it is working when you have only one quest put ingame, not 2, not 10000 or whatever ...
The crafting tools were put on fileplanet AFTER the game has been launched but that feature has been advertised on fileplanet AFTER the tools have been made available for the public. So once again you are misinformed (or maybe you are not and you just lie to promote some hidden agenda of yours).
Egomancer
a
Egomancer, I have to say that after following your forums for many months observing, I expected NOTHIN to work. So when I paid $19.95 for it about 3 weeks ago, and saw that it actually worked and played it for a couple of hours, I was so shocked that it even ran that I gave the game a 78% review score. I promised the people here who asked me to give another review after I had much more time in the game. I did that, and it is on my recent post in which I gave the game [i]every[/i/] more then fair score leaning as much as possible towards giving your game as good a score as possible. And after playing your game for more then 70 in game hours... I scored your bug-infested game at a horrid 36% score.
The game is choppy. The games animation sucks. Even pac-man games have more animation it seems, especialy in combat. There is absolutely nothing to do but fight the same 18 or so different mobs that I found over and over and over. Crafting did NOT work... and if it working, why is that not part of your auto-patching sequence? Should one really have to search Fileplanet or the web for this missing code?? Your cost of $20 now and $9.00 a month is too high for the game you serve. You need much more customization. You need tons more dungeons, quests, and mobs to challenge the player. You need better avatar and fighting animations. You need smoother gameplay. You need MUCH bigger servers. For example most of the 70 hours I played there was 8 or less people in game, but if more then say 12 or 13 were in game, the game got TWICE as choppy and lagged like hell. THIS IS NOT SOMETHING PEOPLE WANNA PAY REAL MONEY FOR. And before you attack my computer, I have a super-fast broadband connection with a 3.2 Ghz P4, 1.5 GB RAM and Nvidia 6800 video card!
The game runs yes. The game is not complete and you know it. Stop pretending this is a great and complete game worth paying for. Like said before, you are just continuing to dig yourself in deeper and deeper with your attempts to make this game seem great. I have played it intensively. It is far from even mediocre. I wouldn't play it if it was FREE any more then I did. It's not worth paying for as an mmo. The only reason I spent so much time in it was to try every part of your game to give it a fair grade. And that grade is a 36%.
- Zaxx
After april 1:st it was not possible to cancel your "pre-order" by your own words, of course "forum upgrade" wiped the forums to hide that fact (along with information that showed how you/company treated people that where critical).
Paying retail price for a cd-r with the beta client (which people already had) is a scam. Also WHERE IS 40% DISCOUNT, I have asked almost every time you have posted here. Oh yeah "the old billing company" which apparently decides YOUR PRICE on the product, yeah right.
I do not care for "Julie Blue" which was a semi-troll anyway (took 5 seconds to see it was a fake). Blaming on one troll/company is not very proffesional, then again calling others for being Dark & Light devs isnt either. Or throwing fake lawsuits EVERYWHERE.
Also your "state of the art" engine has nice screenshots (but so has Morrowind = single player rpg), ingame you have freezes all the time. Or is that crappy net-coding? Its one or the other. ("Lag" with 8-10 people online is a obvious problem).
"Npc server" being down all the time, bad coding or crappy hardware?
The content on your 4 "realms", making different skins for same 3-d models is not hard its just "fluff". Right now YOUR FANS are making most of the quests to supplement 2(!) quests that dont even work.
What?! Please explain this moon logic to me.24/7 Server uptime with a guy watching the server? Also a LIE from YOU.
With 2 quests its not very hard to do more since there isnt much to begin with. Also will you count FAN MADE quests as YOUR OWN?, something tells me yes since ripping off fans is not alien to you.There is a post asking if fans will be compensated for making quests, you have ignored that question.
Also you are the "Project Manager" which means you have the blame for ALOT, this cannot be blammed on "old billing partners" , trolls or whatever you can come up with.
Yes I can play the blame game since I have not sold crap & then taking credit for everything "good" but not the crap.
I'm fairly sure he was referring to the two people making claims against the game and it should have been "those customers" rather than "the customers".
*Notice: The views expressed in this post are solely those of the author... got sick of holding backspace.
-----------------------------------------
ParaTrooper, That guy that used to mod the MMORPG.com forums.
Ahh ok. Could be a "Freudian slip" also
.
Dont release a game for $20 (the price of a decent mmo) and have most features broken and charge a monthly fee.
I mean who in the right mind would pay for a crappy mmo (bearly playable) for $20 and $10 a month thats in early beta stage.
OR you could get a COMPLETLE mmo thats FUN and pay $3 more a month.
lmao ive seen videos of players playing mourning that edit it to make it look cool when fighting a single mob eq style with 1996 graphics. ( NOT COOL )
I am fool enough to answer you, but I have too.
The first time the game was launched was the 8 of April (wasn'n t it the time of the double charges on several accounts?)
After the first release went pear shaped, you made another launch of the game, relaunching the website and the forum.
You started charging people accounts the 6th of April, that means that the game was released 2 months ago.........and it was released in Beta.
You've got short memory my friend.
Even now the game is not ready for release let alone 2 months ago.
2 quests in the entire game?.................you are having a laugh.
People don't buy games to walk around the world and admiring the view, nor they want to kill mobs 24/7.
A MMORPG without quest is not a decent game, how hard is it to understand that?
Yes, I ve got a Ferrari fitted with 4 supermarket trolley wheels.........I still got 4 wheels though, but do you think that the Ferrari will actually move?
Having the features doesn't mean that the game is complete, 2 quests are just a joke...........but then again, you like to entartain people don't you?
Heyyy.... come on now STE2000 -
To Egomancer, Uhhh "Limitless Horizons" is 10 times better then Turbine, Mythic, and Sony together!
Mourning is 100 times better then Asherons Call could ever dream of being.
Mourning is 500 times more solid, and more fun then DAoC!!
Mourning is 900 times better then Everquest & Everquest 2
And if you don't believe me on all this, hell just ask Egomancer! He'll tell you how no other game even touches Mournings sheer quality.
lol.
- Zaxx
Ego,
This will not work for everyone, but here is a thought. Subscription based games get a greater portion of their money off the subscription. With that in mind. Free client download.
After that, you guessed it, free trial. Not 7 days, not 14 days, give us a month. NO credit cards required. I know you can do that.
Let me actually see what you have and let me actually see the changes happen. In one months time there should be a pretty good load of them.
Maybe then, by seeing your hard work and dedication, I might be swayed.
Its just a thought.
Theely, that is what I am suggesting to Egomancer for like..............forever?!
Do you think it will listen to you?
You just a fool like anyone else.............
He doesn't listen to people, he just thinks that people like to criticize him because we all hate him for no reason.
He won't do that, because he thinks that Mourning is an UBBAH game, therefore everyone should pay for it without trying it first.
In other words we should trust him...............yeah.........right
I would rather trust the devil in person, before trusting Egomancer on the quality of his product.
Ah no, no fool at all. Thus the whole no credit card thing.
And you are most likely 99.99999(repeating)% correct in that I typed my original for nothing but I figured what the hell, why not.
Heres the think guys. First off, Mourning's servers are already unstable with 8-30 currently playing. Add about 100 more freeloaders would crash the server about 1/1 of the time instead of the current 2/3 percent of the time. Remember, Spoon was talking about how the core code will not allow for the game to grow very much- the code should have been put in the begining and now causes lag and freeze when the game goes over 30. Second, many on the net think mourning is shutting down soon. It just doesnt have the resource to do anymore.
On another Note:
Some new linkedge
Pker.org
http://www.pker.org/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=4493&KW=mourning
http://www.pker.org/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=4433&KW=mourning
http://www.pker.org/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=4487&PN=1
PCGamer
http://www.pcgamer.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=4521&highlight=mourning
SomethingAwful.com Thread on Mourning
http://forums.somethingawful.com/showthread.php?s=6ee3d142195caa3217d2c2825a169580&threadid=1523075&perpage=40&pagenumber=1
The Corpnews Thread on Mourning
http://www.corpnews.com/forums/viewtopic.php?t=1892&postdays=0&postorder=asc&highlight=mourning&start=0
http://www.corpnews.com/forums/viewtopic.php?t=2017&highlight=mourning
Plagueland.com Mourning:
http://plaguelands.com/?p=56
http://plaguelands.com/?p=23
Regarding Number10 and Pajaris responses on this thread:
http://www.realmsoftorment.net/forums/showthread.php3?s=20592b5be072aeb7722b4e25c345e82a&threadid=20764
I said I was leaving no doubt about that. In fact, I sent Tiamat a pm thanking him for some good chatting over the past three years. Logged on again later, and everything was deleted. One thing to ban, another is to delete an account with communication, its cowardly. So Pajari, peace mate, enjoyed the good chats on IRC, but see what you are supporting. The deleting created someone with admin privileges, either a dev or Dave himself.... Peace...
Now you put water into a cup, it becomes the cup,
You put water into a bottle, it becomes the bottle,
You put it in a teapot, it becomes the teapot.
Now water can flow or it can crash!
Be water, my friend.
~Bruce Lee
Either you are with them or you are against them.
There is no middle ground.
Natty is always been polite, and in his farewell post, he says that he will post in the Mourning forum from time to time, because he still thinks that Mourning devs can pull it off, one day.
Do you think they understood?
Of course not.
Natty is now considered a traitor, because he didn't support them blindly, although he never spoke too negatively about the game or devs.
They behave like children, when someone doesn't completely agree with them, they put them on the black list straight away.
This is the way they manage their fanbase, and that s the reason why their fanbase number is getting thinner by the time.
Good luck to everyone that want to deal with this bunch of imature people, because you gonna need it.
You know what the saddest part is Ego ?
There are more hard facts in this thread than you have had on your whole forum either before or after the wipe.
If this thread was the baseless rubbish you claim it is, you would not bother spending so much time trying to refute it.
Character Name : Egomancer
Special skill : -2 to credibility
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"MMOs, for people that like think chatting is like a skill or something, rotflol"
http://purepwnage.com
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"Far away across the field, the tolling of the iron bell, calls the faithful to their knees. To hear the softly spoken magic spell" Pink Floyd-Dark Side of the Moon
Ok. I honestly read all 52 pages of this stuff and I cant believe it, I had my eye on Mourning and thank god i didnt pre-order it. I hate to see good people get banned form the Mourning forums like in all the links given, because of (DAVE) <--- Ass
Grow up, why cant you just admit that you made a shi**y game with a record for being online 3 hours and a record of 30 people. You ban/erase anything/anyone thats against you, the game, the devs/mods or anything. Well Ego, or Dave, try to erase this. Not only does MMORPG.COM have a higher population than the Mourning forums but there are more respectable people here, more people will see what you have done here than anywhere else.
I wonder, did a Mourning forums mod read this topic, find any link that is a link to the Mourning forums and just erase it? I bet im right.
This is new for me, to see the company of a good go down in FLAMES, I didnt play WISH I had no idea what it was like so I cant relate, I find this amusing.
Ok.
To solve the ethic problems of the many we posted this: "This game is still in development and requires a low monthly fee to participate in the development period" jut before the link where the possible client goes to the page to purchase the serial.
I hope that this settles the whole problem.
As Natty says: Peace!
Egomancer
a
I am firmly convinced that Egomancer lives in a constant state of delusion.