If there is plenty people paying and getting them that, then it will carry on, but otherwise it is a financial burden. SWTOR just costs too much to operate.
If there is plenty people paying and getting them that, then it will carry on, but otherwise it is a financial burden. SWTOR just costs too much to operate.
I really doubt you or any other random forum poster knows anything about the current situation and how much it costs them to run SWTOR. The game isn't even that huge anymore or churning out huge content updates that they need a huge staff to run it. What is left there in SWTOR that requires huge chunk of money now after release?
"The problem is that the hardcore folks always want the same thing: 'We want exactly what you gave us before, but it has to be completely different.' -Jesse Schell
"Online gamers are the most ludicrously entitled beings since Caligula made his horse a senator, and at least the horse never said anything stupid." -Luke McKinney
"Haters" vs "fanboys" arguments/unconstructive community commentary"
I so wish every forum I visit would adopt such a policy in regard to this content. It used to be funny to read, now it's just mind-bendingly annoying.
I am always amazed with just how eager both sides always are to Engage in Forum Battle.
Like...it's new or something each time?
Makes them remarkably easy to bait (yes, either side).
Self-pity imprisons us in the walls of our own self-absorption. The whole world shrinks down to the size of our problem, and the more we dwell on it, the smaller we are and the larger the problem seems to grow.
Its not a case of we dont want any critisism of our game its more a case of tell us whats wrong but not in a manner such omg this sucks so bad why didnt they ect.ect.. and more a case of I beleive is X was done this way because of Y then i would be more inclined to use X or Y
I totaly agree with bioware/Ea for tightning there forum post rules as for to long have haters and whinners rulled the threads with zero constructive feedback
They do seem to be only wanting constructive feedback on stuff they can do, and suggestions to make the game better but is beyond their ability to do, also gets wiped.
Many people posted various threads on the SWG forums about improving / changing the game even if it stuff we all knew that could not be done, and SOE stated things would never happen, but they still let it carry on as long it remained civil. If any thread was created in a non constructive way, the thread would get locked/deleted but then told to repost in a constructive manner.
They do seem to be only wanting constructive feedback
Therein lies the rub.
Forums users (as a general rule) have forgotten how to do that.
IF EA wants a forum with 98% less gab, but what remains are actual attempts at constructive, I think they're entitled to have that.
Self-pity imprisons us in the walls of our own self-absorption. The whole world shrinks down to the size of our problem, and the more we dwell on it, the smaller we are and the larger the problem seems to grow.
If there is plenty people paying and getting them that, then it will carry on, but otherwise it is a financial burden. SWTOR just costs too much to operate.
I really doubt you or any other random forum poster knows anything about the current situation and how much it costs them to run SWTOR. The game isn't even that huge anymore or churning out huge content updates that they need a huge staff to run it. What is left there in SWTOR that requires huge chunk of money now after release?
It was stated before launch, and it was stated again there on 1st Aug, after the many layoffs and cut backs, and I do not see that fact changing, unless they say so. They can easily say that 500K figure, but seems stupid not to say something else, as that 500K figure gives the impression that game will be shut down if they can not get that many people. If they were to speak again and mention it only needs 200K then it would show the game has more chance of surviving, and more people will be willing to put time and money into it, I know I would. This is the main reason why I am not playing SWTOR as much as I am.
I don't understand. How is this different then ANY OTHER GAME FORUM OUT?
Answer: Because it's EA. Same thing happens with SOE. As far as most people are concerned. Both companies are the anti-christ that will bring about the end of days.
In War - Victory. In Peace - Vigilance. In Death - Sacrifice.
They do seem to be only wanting constructive feedback
Therein lies the rub.
Forums users (as a general rule) have forgotten how to do that.
IF EA wants a forum with 98% less gab, but what remains are actual attempts at constructive, I think they're entitled to have that.
That is not what I was getting at, you cut off the sentence taking it out of context
I was saying they are banning people still for constructive feedback on things they can not do.
They only want constructive feedback on things they can do.
Again, if they want the dead quiet message boards, with all of the venom taking place where they don't have to see it..
Well, careful or you might get what you ask for.
Doesn't EA have enough self-delusion issues?
Self-pity imprisons us in the walls of our own self-absorption. The whole world shrinks down to the size of our problem, and the more we dwell on it, the smaller we are and the larger the problem seems to grow.
I don't understand. How is this different then ANY OTHER GAME FORUM OUT?
Answer: Because it's EA. Same thing happens with SOE. As far as most people are concerned. Both companies are the anti-christ that will bring about the end of days.
This. There are plenty of constructive complaint threads about the game on the official forums. Some even get linked here by the very same people who claim that EA is silencing criticism.Whatever fits the days chosen narrative I guess.
Speaking of censorship, what's with all the locked threads around here? I see more locked threads in this subforum than I do over on the official boards. Riddle me that.
If there is plenty people paying and getting them that, then it will carry on, but otherwise it is a financial burden. SWTOR just costs too much to operate.
I really doubt you or any other random forum poster knows anything about the current situation and how much it costs them to run SWTOR. The game isn't even that huge anymore or churning out huge content updates that they need a huge staff to run it. What is left there in SWTOR that requires huge chunk of money now after release?
It was stated before launch, and it was stated again there on 1st Aug, after the many layoffs and cut backs, and I do not see that fact changing, unless they say so. They can easily say that 500K figure, but seems stupid not to say something else, as that 500K figure gives the impression that game will be shut down if they can not get that many people. If they were to speak again and mention it only needs 200K then it would show the game has more chance of surviving, and more people will be willing to put time and money into it, I know I would. This is the main reason why I am not playing SWTOR as much as I am.
I find it hard to believe that fear of shutting down is the only reason that is keeping you away from SWTOR. (don't think anyone is going to buy that)
However, i still can't find one logical reason as to why SWTOR is still a very expensive MMO to run and why they would need a huge staff to keep it running. Yes they spent a lot of money on it and only EA knows the profit they are making after F2P changes but that still doesn't answer the question i asked 'why is it too expensive to operate"? the game hardly gets any huge content updates or expansions which suggest they are not spending much on SWTOR at the moment.
"The problem is that the hardcore folks always want the same thing: 'We want exactly what you gave us before, but it has to be completely different.' -Jesse Schell
"Online gamers are the most ludicrously entitled beings since Caligula made his horse a senator, and at least the horse never said anything stupid." -Luke McKinney
If there is plenty people paying and getting them that, then it will carry on, but otherwise it is a financial burden. SWTOR just costs too much to operate.
I really doubt you or any other random forum poster knows anything about the current situation and how much it costs them to run SWTOR. The game isn't even that huge anymore or churning out huge content updates that they need a huge staff to run it. What is left there in SWTOR that requires huge chunk of money now after release?
It was stated before launch, and it was stated again there on 1st Aug, after the many layoffs and cut backs, and I do not see that fact changing, unless they say so. They can easily say that 500K figure, but seems stupid not to say something else, as that 500K figure gives the impression that game will be shut down if they can not get that many people. If they were to speak again and mention it only needs 200K then it would show the game has more chance of surviving, and more people will be willing to put time and money into it, I know I would. This is the main reason why I am not playing SWTOR as much as I am.
I find it hard to believe that fear of shutting down is the only reason that is keeping you away from SWTOR.
However, i still can't find one logical reason as to why SWTOR is still a very expensive MMO to run and why they would need a huge staff to keep it running. Yes they spent a lot of money on it and only EA knows the profit they are making after F2P changes but that still doesn't answer the question i asked 'why is it too expensive to operate"? the game hardly gets any huge content updates or expansions which suggest they are not spending much on SWTOR at the moment.
What is the point in putting money and time in a MMO that gets shut down before its time? Been there with that with SWG and COH, not going there again.
If it had been a roraring success close to WOW, then yes it most certainly would have made a differrence
It is too expensive to operate beause they need $7.5 million to break even. They make that or more than that, then they make a profit, and are in the black. They get less than that, then they are in the red.
If you can find more info to show that they will be OK, then fine, but even the last statement they said F2P was OK, but were not confident it would sustain being OK into the future
They do seem to be only wanting constructive feedback
Therein lies the rub.
Forums users (as a general rule) have forgotten how to do that.
IF EA wants a forum with 98% less gab, but what remains are actual attempts at constructive, I think they're entitled to have that.
I'm all for balanced moderation that promotes civility in the abstract, but that is very rarely how it actually plays out. There is usually some set of posters who are allowed to troll anyone with a criticism, valid or not, without any consequences. They are allowed to be as obnoxious as they want as long as they are on the company's side despite the established guidelines stating certain behavior won't be tolerated at all. That seems far more detrimental to me than heavy moderation/redacting since it actually promotes antagonistic interaction instead of squelching it.
___________________________ Have flask; will travel.
They do seem to be only wanting constructive feedback
Therein lies the rub.
Forums users (as a general rule) have forgotten how to do that.
IF EA wants a forum with 98% less gab, but what remains are actual attempts at constructive, I think they're entitled to have that.
I'm all for balanced moderation that promotes civility in the abstract, but that is very rarely how it actually plays out. There is usually some set of posters who are allowed to troll anyone with a criticism, valid or not, without any consequences. They are allowed to be as obnoxious as they want as long as they are on the company's side despite the established guidelines stating certain behavior won't be tolerated at all. That seems far more detrimental to me than heavy moderation/redacting since it actually promotes antagonistic interaction instead of squelching it.
You do make a point.
I've never read such vitrol along the lines of:
You are not a special snowflake.
Is this your first MMO?
This game is not for you.
Go play in Pokee-Pandaland.
Can I has your stuff.
WoW is ----------> that way.
Stop whining, quit. We don't want you anyway.
Have you checked with your ISP?
etc. on and on and on.
It's not as bad now simply because there just aren't that many posters left.
If there is plenty people paying and getting them that, then it will carry on, but otherwise it is a financial burden. SWTOR just costs too much to operate.
I really doubt you or any other random forum poster knows anything about the current situation and how much it costs them to run SWTOR. The game isn't even that huge anymore or churning out huge content updates that they need a huge staff to run it. What is left there in SWTOR that requires huge chunk of money now after release?
It was stated before launch, and it was stated again there on 1st Aug, after the many layoffs and cut backs, and I do not see that fact changing, unless they say so. They can easily say that 500K figure, but seems stupid not to say something else, as that 500K figure gives the impression that game will be shut down if they can not get that many people. If they were to speak again and mention it only needs 200K then it would show the game has more chance of surviving, and more people will be willing to put time and money into it, I know I would. This is the main reason why I am not playing SWTOR as much as I am.
I find it hard to believe that fear of shutting down is the only reason that is keeping you away from SWTOR.
However, i still can't find one logical reason as to why SWTOR is still a very expensive MMO to run and why they would need a huge staff to keep it running. Yes they spent a lot of money on it and only EA knows the profit they are making after F2P changes but that still doesn't answer the question i asked 'why is it too expensive to operate"? the game hardly gets any huge content updates or expansions which suggest they are not spending much on SWTOR at the moment.
What is the point in putting money and time in a MMO that gets shut down before its time? Been there with that with SWG and COH, not going there again.
If it had been a roraring success close to WOW, then yes it most certainly would have made a differrence
It is too expensive to operate beause they need $7.5 million to break even. They make that or more than that, then they make a profit, and are in the black. They get less than that, then they are in the red.
If you can find more info to show that they will be OK, then fine, but even the last statement they said F2P was OK, but were not confident it would sustain being OK into the future
Since release of WOW can you name me one MMO that was a rroaring success like WOW? and yet they are all alive and kicking.
Moreover, considering it is an EA which doesn't give a damn about its player base and would rather shut the game off (Earth and beyond anyone?) than incur losses, one has to think logicaly that the only reason why SWTOR is still going on is because EA is recouping its cost back. Although not at the same pace it expected but still is.
The initial investment in production is not same as ongoing cost to operate. two different things. That is the reason why i asked that what would be the reason for EA to pump more money into swtor..hence the operating cost.
I don't need to show anything here because unlike you i have no vested interest in SWTOR and i am not keenly watching or waiting for it to die off because i have a personal axe to grind with Bioware and EA.
Still you have not made any convincing case that SWTOR will indeed just shut down. All i see is pure seculations and grudge against a praticular game /company.
"The problem is that the hardcore folks always want the same thing: 'We want exactly what you gave us before, but it has to be completely different.' -Jesse Schell
"Online gamers are the most ludicrously entitled beings since Caligula made his horse a senator, and at least the horse never said anything stupid." -Luke McKinney
To put it simply, it is possible that due to the IP license, EA has to keep SWTOR open, and will continue to invest a minimum of new content, and most of that in the cartel shop, in an attempt to minimize losses. When the license expires, they could conceviably shut off the lights.
While they are perfectly in their right to shut down such threads, one would think that the sheer number of complaints coupled with the massive loss of customers since launch would signal the need for a radical change.
One thing that Bioware sucks at (at least for SWTOR) is communicating and developing rapport with customers. They had that guild summit way back when and made a pretense of logging suggestions. After that the wizard closed his doors and admitted no guests back into the tower (meaning that communications came to a halt once people started hitting endgame).
> What other company talks to customers like that?
-Who cares? This is Bioware's problem.
> They have a skeleton crew, there's no money for such a change
-A plan of how, even in small increments, this will be addressed would help the fans. Instead it's simply wait and see the next theme park mechanism rehashed from WoW (dungeon with giant-sized monster at the end). The cycle of useless hope is awful to watch. Guarantee that except for the players who are from the "good enough" crowd, the others are hanging on to some hope that features will be added without any substantive mention of this from Bioware. vapor-features.
So it isn't the logistics, it's the inability to adapt to the customer, and the lack of messaging to this effect. This is assuming they would actually want to bring in new customers instead of just settling for what they have.
The current plan seems to be to rely on the chum they are throwing off the back of the boat to bring the Update Curious back for a small cycle of play. This will result in repeated experiences of "I came back and nothing has changed enough" which you can see on the forums. Enough of that and you permanently extinguish interest.
If there is plenty people paying and getting them that, then it will carry on, but otherwise it is a financial burden. SWTOR just costs too much to operate.
I really doubt you or any other random forum poster knows anything about the current situation and how much it costs them to run SWTOR. The game isn't even that huge anymore or churning out huge content updates that they need a huge staff to run it. What is left there in SWTOR that requires huge chunk of money now after release?
It was stated before launch, and it was stated again there on 1st Aug, after the many layoffs and cut backs, and I do not see that fact changing, unless they say so. They can easily say that 500K figure, but seems stupid not to say something else, as that 500K figure gives the impression that game will be shut down if they can not get that many people. If they were to speak again and mention it only needs 200K then it would show the game has more chance of surviving, and more people will be willing to put time and money into it, I know I would. This is the main reason why I am not playing SWTOR as much as I am.
I find it hard to believe that fear of shutting down is the only reason that is keeping you away from SWTOR.
However, i still can't find one logical reason as to why SWTOR is still a very expensive MMO to run and why they would need a huge staff to keep it running. Yes they spent a lot of money on it and only EA knows the profit they are making after F2P changes but that still doesn't answer the question i asked 'why is it too expensive to operate"? the game hardly gets any huge content updates or expansions which suggest they are not spending much on SWTOR at the moment.
What is the point in putting money and time in a MMO that gets shut down before its time? Been there with that with SWG and COH, not going there again.
If it had been a roraring success close to WOW, then yes it most certainly would have made a differrence
It is too expensive to operate beause they need $7.5 million to break even. They make that or more than that, then they make a profit, and are in the black. They get less than that, then they are in the red.
If you can find more info to show that they will be OK, then fine, but even the last statement they said F2P was OK, but were not confident it would sustain being OK into the future
Since release of WOW can you name me one MMO that was a rroaring success like WOW? and yet they are all alive and kicking.
Moreover, considering it is an EA which doesn't give a damn about its player base and would rather shut the game off (Earth and beyond anyone?) than incur losses, one has to think logicaly that the only reason why SWTOR is still going on is because EA is recouping its cost back. Although not at the same pace it expected but still is.
The initial investment in production is not same as ongoing cost to operate. two different things. That is the reason why i asked that what would be the reason for EA to pump more money into swtor..hence the operating cost.
I don't need to show anything here because unlike you i have no vested interest in SWTOR and i am not keenly watching or waiting for it to die off because i have a personal axe to grind with Bioware and EA.
Still you have not made any convincing case that SWTOR will indeed just shut down. All i see is pure seculations and grudge against a praticular game /company.
SWTOR only needs to be a roaring success like WOW as they need $7.5 million to break even. Other MMOs do not need this. Any other MMO who had the subs of SWTOR would not have needed to take the game F2P. SWTOR needs $7.5 million.
They said in the last finnacial statemnt that F2P was just OK, and nothing awesome, but it will only be fine if it stays that way for the rest of the year and onwards. If it loses players this year like it did last year, then it may not see past 2013
If they were now making a profit I would expect Makeb to be in by the end of 2012, and MORE content coming for Spring as well, but all that is happening is Makeb
STO only has a fraction of the players of SWTOR but they are doing more for it, hiring more staff, and even got Denise Crosby, and have already put in Season 7 which was announced after Makeb, plus they have Season 8 and Season 9 outlined. 3 major content updates vs 1 with SWTOR. STO is not a roaring success, but progressing nicely. Rift is not a roraring success either, but no doom and gloom statements from Trion about the game, but it has had positive reactions to their expansion, even costing more, and has not even gone F2P yet. All other companies do not really give off any doom and gloom. Even SOE did more for SWG in its last 6 months after the closure announcement than EA has been doing for SWTOR.
It is not guranateed that SWTOR will shut down, and I am not saying that, just that it is not out of the realms of possibility, and its prognosis is not good. EA are just not doing enough to keep people interested. SOE did all they could to keep SWG alive, and devs worked around the clock in their own time, because they loved it. SWG only got shut down due to the licence, and they SOE still renewed it sverela times after the NGE. If SWTOR only has a 2 year licence and not enough money to pay for its renewal then bye bye SWTOR. If they have it for 5 years then it may last 5 years. But I would think that if they had plenty of years left in SWTOR, that EA would be doing more for it than they are.
I do not have a personal axe to grind with Bioware or EA (who are the same thing). I liked Bioware I liked every game they made. SWTOR is what it is, and I just say what it is, It is one side of things.
Originally posted by Doogiehowser Originally posted by superniceguy Originally posted by Doogiehowser Originally posted by superniceguy Originally posted by Doogiehowser Originally posted by superniceguy Originally posted by Wickedjelly Originally posted by tom_gore I'll give until the end of 2013 before EA pulls the plug on the servers.
No they won't.
They're still stringing along Warhammer which obviously has way lower net income for them. So why in the hell would they close this game?
If there is plenty people paying and getting them that, then it will carry on, but otherwise it is a financial burden. SWTOR just costs too much to operate.
I really doubt you or any other random forum poster knows anything about the current situation and how much it costs them to run SWTOR. The game isn't even that huge anymore or churning out huge content updates that they need a huge staff to run it. What is left there in SWTOR that requires huge chunk of money now after release?
It was stated before launch, and it was stated again there on 1st Aug, after the many layoffs and cut backs, and I do not see that fact changing, unless they say so. They can easily say that 500K figure, but seems stupid not to say something else, as that 500K figure gives the impression that game will be shut down if they can not get that many people. If they were to speak again and mention it only needs 200K then it would show the game has more chance of surviving, and more people will be willing to put time and money into it, I know I would. This is the main reason why I am not playing SWTOR as much as I am.
I find it hard to believe that fear of shutting down is the only reason that is keeping you away from SWTOR.
However, i still can't find one logical reason as to why SWTOR is still a very expensive MMO to run and why they would need a huge staff to keep it running. Yes they spent a lot of money on it and only EA knows the profit they are making after F2P changes but that still doesn't answer the question i asked 'why is it too expensive to operate"? the game hardly gets any huge content updates or expansions which suggest they are not spending much on SWTOR at the moment.
What is the point in putting money and time in a MMO that gets shut down before its time? Been there with that with SWG and COH, not going there again.
If it had been a roraring success close to WOW, then yes it most certainly would have made a differrence
It is too expensive to operate beause they need $7.5 million to break even. They make that or more than that, then they make a profit, and are in the black. They get less than that, then they are in the red.
If you can find more info to show that they will be OK, then fine, but even the last statement they said F2P was OK, but were not confident it would sustain being OK into the future
Since release of WOW can you name me one MMO that was a rroaring success like WOW? and yet they are all alive and kicking.
Moreover, considering it is an EA which doesn't give a damn about its player base and would rather shut the game off (Earth and beyond anyone?) than incur losses, one has to think logicaly that the only reason why SWTOR is still going on is because EA is recouping its cost back. Although not at the same pace it expected but still is.
The initial investment in production is not same as ongoing cost to operate. two different things. That is the reason why i asked that what would be the reason for EA to pump more money into swtor..hence the operating cost.
I don't need to show anything here because unlike you i have no vested interest in SWTOR and i am not keenly watching or waiting for it to die off because i have a personal axe to grind with Bioware and EA.
Still you have not made any convincing case that SWTOR will indeed just shut down. All i see is pure seculations and grudge against a praticular game /company.
SWTOR only needs to be a roaring success like WOW as they need $7.5 million to break even. Other MMOs do not need this. Any other MMO who had the subs of SWTOR would not have needed to take the game F2P. SWTOR needs $7.5 million.
They said in the last finnacial statemnt that F2P was just OK, and nothing awesome, but it will only be fine if it stays that way for the rest of the year and onwards. If it loses players this year like it did last year, then it may not see past 2013
If they were now making a profit I would expect Makeb to be in by the end of 2012, and MORE content coming for Spring as well, but all that is happening is Makeb
STO only has a fraction of the players of SWTOR but they are doing more for it, hiring more staff, and even got Denise Crosby, and have already put in Season 7 which was announced after Makeb, plus they have Season 8 and Season 9 outlined. 3 major content updates vs 1 with SWTOR. STO is not a roaring success, but progressing nicely. Rift is not a roraring success either, but no doom and gloom statements from Trion about the game, but it has had positive reactions to their expansion, even costing more, and has not even gone F2P yet. All other companies do not really give off any doom and gloom. Even SOE did more for SWG in its last 6 months after the closure announcement than EA has been doing for SWTOR.
It is not guranateed that SWTOR will shut down, and I am not saying that, just that it is not out of the realms of possibility, and its prognosis is not good. EA are just not doing enough to keep people interested. SOE did all they could to keep SWG alive, and devs worked around the clock in their own time, because they loved it. SWG only got shut down due to the licence, and they SOE still renewed it sverela times after the NGE. If SWTOR only has a 2 year licence and not enough money to pay for its renewal then bye bye SWTOR. If they have it for 5 years then it may last 5 years. But I would think that if they had plenty of years left in SWTOR, that EA would be doing more for it than they are.
Why jump to a new post and post the same thing you already posted in another swtor today? Kind of makes people wonder what is your real purpose on posting on swtor?
If there is plenty people paying and getting them that, then it will carry on, but otherwise it is a financial burden. SWTOR just costs too much to operate.
I really doubt you or any other random forum poster knows anything about the current situation and how much it costs them to run SWTOR. The game isn't even that huge anymore or churning out huge content updates that they need a huge staff to run it. What is left there in SWTOR that requires huge chunk of money now after release?
It was stated before launch, and it was stated again there on 1st Aug, after the many layoffs and cut backs, and I do not see that fact changing, unless they say so. They can easily say that 500K figure, but seems stupid not to say something else, as that 500K figure gives the impression that game will be shut down if they can not get that many people. If they were to speak again and mention it only needs 200K then it would show the game has more chance of surviving, and more people will be willing to put time and money into it, I know I would. This is the main reason why I am not playing SWTOR as much as I am.
I find it hard to believe that fear of shutting down is the only reason that is keeping you away from SWTOR.
However, i still can't find one logical reason as to why SWTOR is still a very expensive MMO to run and why they would need a huge staff to keep it running. Yes they spent a lot of money on it and only EA knows the profit they are making after F2P changes but that still doesn't answer the question i asked 'why is it too expensive to operate"? the game hardly gets any huge content updates or expansions which suggest they are not spending much on SWTOR at the moment.
What is the point in putting money and time in a MMO that gets shut down before its time? Been there with that with SWG and COH, not going there again.
If it had been a roraring success close to WOW, then yes it most certainly would have made a differrence
It is too expensive to operate beause they need $7.5 million to break even. They make that or more than that, then they make a profit, and are in the black. They get less than that, then they are in the red.
If you can find more info to show that they will be OK, then fine, but even the last statement they said F2P was OK, but were not confident it would sustain being OK into the future
Since release of WOW can you name me one MMO that was a rroaring success like WOW? and yet they are all alive and kicking.
Moreover, considering it is an EA which doesn't give a damn about its player base and would rather shut the game off (Earth and beyond anyone?) than incur losses, one has to think logicaly that the only reason why SWTOR is still going on is because EA is recouping its cost back. Although not at the same pace it expected but still is.
The initial investment in production is not same as ongoing cost to operate. two different things. That is the reason why i asked that what would be the reason for EA to pump more money into swtor..hence the operating cost.
I don't need to show anything here because unlike you i have no vested interest in SWTOR and i am not keenly watching or waiting for it to die off because i have a personal axe to grind with Bioware and EA.
Still you have not made any convincing case that SWTOR will indeed just shut down. All i see is pure seculations and grudge against a praticular game /company.
SWTOR only needs to be a roaring success like WOW as they need $7.5 million to break even. Other MMOs do not need this. Any other MMO who had the subs of SWTOR would not have needed to take the game F2P. SWTOR needs $7.5 million.
They said in the last finnacial statemnt that F2P was just OK, and nothing awesome, but it will only be fine if it stays that way for the rest of the year and onwards. If it loses players this year like it did last year, then it may not see past 2013
If they were now making a profit I would expect Makeb to be in by the end of 2012, and MORE content coming for Spring as well, but all that is happening is Makeb
STO only has a fraction of the players of SWTOR but they are doing more for it, hiring more staff, and even got Denise Crosby, and have already put in Season 7 which was announced after Makeb, plus they have Season 8 and Season 9 outlined. 3 major content updates vs 1 with SWTOR. STO is not a roaring success, but progressing nicely. Rift is not a roraring success either, but no doom and gloom statements from Trion about the game, but it has had positive reactions to their expansion, even costing more, and has not even gone F2P yet. All other companies do not really give off any doom and gloom. Even SOE did more for SWG in its last 6 months after the closure announcement than EA has been doing for SWTOR.
It is not guranateed that SWTOR will shut down, and I am not saying that, just that it is not out of the realms of possibility, and its prognosis is not good. EA are just not doing enough to keep people interested. SOE did all they could to keep SWG alive, and devs worked around the clock in their own time, because they loved it. SWG only got shut down due to the licence, and they SOE still renewed it sverela times after the NGE. If SWTOR only has a 2 year licence and not enough money to pay for its renewal then bye bye SWTOR. If they have it for 5 years then it may last 5 years. But I would think that if they had plenty of years left in SWTOR, that EA would be doing more for it than they are.
Why jump to a new post and post the same thing you already posted in another swtor today? Kind of makes people wonder what is your real purpose on posting on swtor?
What? I am just responding to each person, and saying what I think is relevant
The real purpose of posting on SWTOR is to try and make SWTOR better for me and others to play it more. I have already spent loads on the game, and for EA to stop progressing the game fast enough is just a rip off. They wanted the game to be a MMO, so they need to treat it like one. If they can not, then it needs to go B2P like TSW did. It is certainly not worth being a game with constant costs.
SWTOR is mainly down to lazy developers than lazy gamers. SWTOR is the most expensive game ever to be made, and tonnes of content was cut from the game within the six months prior to launch because they wanted the game released ASAP. If they had delayed the launch or got more people on it to make the content viable instead of cutting it out, then maybe things would have been different
If a game is worthwhile and good then people will pay for it. If people wanted a free ride with SWTOR there would not have been as much as 2 million sales. MMOs are designed to last you a long time, and not a week or so like single player games. EA reckoned they had a 10 year lifespan with SWTOR, and I doubt over 1.5 million people who bought SWTOR at launch who knew about the monthly fee saw themselves quitting by the time it went F2P in Nov.
SWTOR is mainly down to lazy developers than lazy gamers. SWTOR is the most expensive game ever to be made, and tonnes of content was cut from the game within the six months prior to launch because they wanted the game released ASAP. If they had delayed the launch or got more people on it to make the content viable instead of cutting it out, then maybe things would have been different
If a game is worthwhile and good then people will pay for it. If people wanted a free ride with SWTOR there would not have been as much as 2 million sales. MMOs are designed to last you a long time, and not a week or so like single player games. EA reckoned they had a 10 year lifespan with SWTOR, and I doubt over 1.5 million people who bought SWTOR at launch who knew about the monthly fee saw themselves quitting by the time it went F2P in Nov.
F2p gamers out number those who will pay 6 to 1 right now. So yes swtor and every game from now on has to adapt to these lazy gamers. Swtor was expensive due to the voice acting which is the best of an mmo. They did screw up in other areas but now they have to adapt. I would say swtor is in the same boat as any company reducing cost due to a competition, cost and the change of the mmo community. The change i am referring to is the laziness and entitlement this new generation has.
This new generation is also led by dumbed down games, and ones that you do not feel like playing and ceratinly not paying years on. I was willing to pay for several SWG accounts per month, and so was others, but SWTOR is not worthy paying even one after you have done a couple of characters. WOW was a fluke to get the millions of subscribers, but then EA comes along and tries to copy its financial success. EA is just in it for the money, and put zero heart and soul into it - they do not care about whether the game is fun or not just as long as people pay money for it, whereas other developers do it for the money but also mainly do it for the fun and get a thrill from seeing people happy, which is probably what prompted the Doctors to leave Bioware - EA sucked all the fun out of creating games.
SWTOR is mainly down to lazy developers than lazy gamers. SWTOR is the most expensive game ever to be made, and tonnes of content was cut from the game within the six months prior to launch because they wanted the game released ASAP. If they had delayed the launch or got more people on it to make the content viable instead of cutting it out, then maybe things would have been different
If a game is worthwhile and good then people will pay for it. If people wanted a free ride with SWTOR there would not have been as much as 2 million sales. MMOs are designed to last you a long time, and not a week or so like single player games. EA reckoned they had a 10 year lifespan with SWTOR, and I doubt over 1.5 million people who bought SWTOR at launch who knew about the monthly fee saw themselves quitting by the time it went F2P in Nov.
F2p gamers out number those who will pay 6 to 1 right now. So yes swtor and every game from now on has to adapt to these lazy gamers. Swtor was expensive due to the voice acting which is the best of an mmo. They did screw up in other areas but now they have to adapt. I would say swtor is in the same boat as any company reducing cost due to a competition, cost and the change of the mmo community. The change i am referring to is the laziness and entitlement this new generation has.
SWTOR is not exactly F2P in many peoples eyes, but a freemium extended trial 1-50, which will be even more-so highlighted when the level cap goes to 55 for non-F2P'ers. Anyways, the number of "MMO'ers" has been on the rise, but the number of people paying a subscription fee hasn't changed much over the last several years. 6.1 million active subscribers in 2007, 6.7 million active subscribers in 2012 (Western region). Saying all gamers are lazy isn't exactly true. My UI is messed up but here is the link: http://www.superdataresearch.com/case-study-does-it-pay-to-switch-to-free-to-play/
Comments
But does Warhammer require 500k subs ($7.5 million per month) to break even?
If there is plenty people paying and getting them that, then it will carry on, but otherwise it is a financial burden. SWTOR just costs too much to operate.
Star Trek Online - Best Free MMORPG of 2012
I really doubt you or any other random forum poster knows anything about the current situation and how much it costs them to run SWTOR. The game isn't even that huge anymore or churning out huge content updates that they need a huge staff to run it. What is left there in SWTOR that requires huge chunk of money now after release?
"The problem is that the hardcore folks always want the same thing: 'We want exactly what you gave us before, but it has to be completely different.'
-Jesse Schell
"Online gamers are the most ludicrously entitled beings since Caligula made his horse a senator, and at least the horse never said anything stupid."
-Luke McKinney
I am always amazed with just how eager both sides always are to Engage in Forum Battle.
Like...it's new or something each time?
Makes them remarkably easy to bait (yes, either side).Self-pity imprisons us in the walls of our own self-absorption. The whole world shrinks down to the size of our problem, and the more we dwell on it, the smaller we are and the larger the problem seems to grow.
They do seem to be only wanting constructive feedback on stuff they can do, and suggestions to make the game better but is beyond their ability to do, also gets wiped.
I bet if the MMORPG articles SWG Features I’d Love to See in SWTOR and The Slippery Slope of SWTOR’s Cartel Market were posted as threads on their forums that would get you banned too.
Many people posted various threads on the SWG forums about improving / changing the game even if it stuff we all knew that could not be done, and SOE stated things would never happen, but they still let it carry on as long it remained civil. If any thread was created in a non constructive way, the thread would get locked/deleted but then told to repost in a constructive manner.
Star Trek Online - Best Free MMORPG of 2012
Therein lies the rub.
Forums users (as a general rule) have forgotten how to do that.
IF EA wants a forum with 98% less gab, but what remains are actual attempts at constructive, I think they're entitled to have that.
Self-pity imprisons us in the walls of our own self-absorption. The whole world shrinks down to the size of our problem, and the more we dwell on it, the smaller we are and the larger the problem seems to grow.
It was stated before launch, and it was stated again there on 1st Aug, after the many layoffs and cut backs, and I do not see that fact changing, unless they say so. They can easily say that 500K figure, but seems stupid not to say something else, as that 500K figure gives the impression that game will be shut down if they can not get that many people. If they were to speak again and mention it only needs 200K then it would show the game has more chance of surviving, and more people will be willing to put time and money into it, I know I would. This is the main reason why I am not playing SWTOR as much as I am.
Star Trek Online - Best Free MMORPG of 2012
That is not what I was getting at, you cut off the sentence taking it out of context
I was saying they are banning people still for constructive feedback on things they can not do.
They only want constructive feedback on things they can do.
Star Trek Online - Best Free MMORPG of 2012
In War - Victory.
In Peace - Vigilance.
In Death - Sacrifice.
Again, if they want the dead quiet message boards, with all of the venom taking place where they don't have to see it..
Well, careful or you might get what you ask for.
Doesn't EA have enough self-delusion issues?
Self-pity imprisons us in the walls of our own self-absorption. The whole world shrinks down to the size of our problem, and the more we dwell on it, the smaller we are and the larger the problem seems to grow.
This. There are plenty of constructive complaint threads about the game on the official forums. Some even get linked here by the very same people who claim that EA is silencing criticism.Whatever fits the days chosen narrative I guess.
Currently Playing: World of Warcraft
Currently Playing: World of Warcraft
I find it hard to believe that fear of shutting down is the only reason that is keeping you away from SWTOR. (don't think anyone is going to buy that)
However, i still can't find one logical reason as to why SWTOR is still a very expensive MMO to run and why they would need a huge staff to keep it running. Yes they spent a lot of money on it and only EA knows the profit they are making after F2P changes but that still doesn't answer the question i asked 'why is it too expensive to operate"? the game hardly gets any huge content updates or expansions which suggest they are not spending much on SWTOR at the moment.
"The problem is that the hardcore folks always want the same thing: 'We want exactly what you gave us before, but it has to be completely different.'
-Jesse Schell
"Online gamers are the most ludicrously entitled beings since Caligula made his horse a senator, and at least the horse never said anything stupid."
-Luke McKinney
What is the point in putting money and time in a MMO that gets shut down before its time? Been there with that with SWG and COH, not going there again.
If it had been a roraring success close to WOW, then yes it most certainly would have made a differrence
It is too expensive to operate beause they need $7.5 million to break even. They make that or more than that, then they make a profit, and are in the black. They get less than that, then they are in the red.
If you can find more info to show that they will be OK, then fine, but even the last statement they said F2P was OK, but were not confident it would sustain being OK into the future
Star Trek Online - Best Free MMORPG of 2012
I'm all for balanced moderation that promotes civility in the abstract, but that is very rarely how it actually plays out. There is usually some set of posters who are allowed to troll anyone with a criticism, valid or not, without any consequences. They are allowed to be as obnoxious as they want as long as they are on the company's side despite the established guidelines stating certain behavior won't be tolerated at all. That seems far more detrimental to me than heavy moderation/redacting since it actually promotes antagonistic interaction instead of squelching it.
___________________________
Have flask; will travel.
You do make a point.
I've never read such vitrol along the lines of:
You are not a special snowflake.
Is this your first MMO?
This game is not for you.
Go play in Pokee-Pandaland.
Can I has your stuff.
WoW is ----------> that way.
Stop whining, quit. We don't want you anyway.
Have you checked with your ISP?
etc. on and on and on.
It's not as bad now simply because there just aren't that many posters left.
Since release of WOW can you name me one MMO that was a rroaring success like WOW? and yet they are all alive and kicking.
Moreover, considering it is an EA which doesn't give a damn about its player base and would rather shut the game off (Earth and beyond anyone?) than incur losses, one has to think logicaly that the only reason why SWTOR is still going on is because EA is recouping its cost back. Although not at the same pace it expected but still is.
The initial investment in production is not same as ongoing cost to operate. two different things. That is the reason why i asked that what would be the reason for EA to pump more money into swtor..hence the operating cost.
I don't need to show anything here because unlike you i have no vested interest in SWTOR and i am not keenly watching or waiting for it to die off because i have a personal axe to grind with Bioware and EA.
Still you have not made any convincing case that SWTOR will indeed just shut down. All i see is pure seculations and grudge against a praticular game /company.
"The problem is that the hardcore folks always want the same thing: 'We want exactly what you gave us before, but it has to be completely different.'
-Jesse Schell
"Online gamers are the most ludicrously entitled beings since Caligula made his horse a senator, and at least the horse never said anything stupid."
-Luke McKinney
While they are perfectly in their right to shut down such threads, one would think that the sheer number of complaints coupled with the massive loss of customers since launch would signal the need for a radical change.
One thing that Bioware sucks at (at least for SWTOR) is communicating and developing rapport with customers. They had that guild summit way back when and made a pretense of logging suggestions. After that the wizard closed his doors and admitted no guests back into the tower (meaning that communications came to a halt once people started hitting endgame).
> What other company talks to customers like that?
-Who cares? This is Bioware's problem.
> They have a skeleton crew, there's no money for such a change
-A plan of how, even in small increments, this will be addressed would help the fans. Instead it's simply wait and see the next theme park mechanism rehashed from WoW (dungeon with giant-sized monster at the end). The cycle of useless hope is awful to watch. Guarantee that except for the players who are from the "good enough" crowd, the others are hanging on to some hope that features will be added without any substantive mention of this from Bioware. vapor-features.
So it isn't the logistics, it's the inability to adapt to the customer, and the lack of messaging to this effect. This is assuming they would actually want to bring in new customers instead of just settling for what they have.
The current plan seems to be to rely on the chum they are throwing off the back of the boat to bring the Update Curious back for a small cycle of play. This will result in repeated experiences of "I came back and nothing has changed enough" which you can see on the forums. Enough of that and you permanently extinguish interest.
Survivor of the great MMORPG Famine of 2011
SWTOR only needs to be a roaring success like WOW as they need $7.5 million to break even. Other MMOs do not need this. Any other MMO who had the subs of SWTOR would not have needed to take the game F2P. SWTOR needs $7.5 million.
They said in the last finnacial statemnt that F2P was just OK, and nothing awesome, but it will only be fine if it stays that way for the rest of the year and onwards. If it loses players this year like it did last year, then it may not see past 2013
If they were now making a profit I would expect Makeb to be in by the end of 2012, and MORE content coming for Spring as well, but all that is happening is Makeb
STO only has a fraction of the players of SWTOR but they are doing more for it, hiring more staff, and even got Denise Crosby, and have already put in Season 7 which was announced after Makeb, plus they have Season 8 and Season 9 outlined. 3 major content updates vs 1 with SWTOR. STO is not a roaring success, but progressing nicely. Rift is not a roraring success either, but no doom and gloom statements from Trion about the game, but it has had positive reactions to their expansion, even costing more, and has not even gone F2P yet. All other companies do not really give off any doom and gloom. Even SOE did more for SWG in its last 6 months after the closure announcement than EA has been doing for SWTOR.
It is not guranateed that SWTOR will shut down, and I am not saying that, just that it is not out of the realms of possibility, and its prognosis is not good. EA are just not doing enough to keep people interested. SOE did all they could to keep SWG alive, and devs worked around the clock in their own time, because they loved it. SWG only got shut down due to the licence, and they SOE still renewed it sverela times after the NGE. If SWTOR only has a 2 year licence and not enough money to pay for its renewal then bye bye SWTOR. If they have it for 5 years then it may last 5 years. But I would think that if they had plenty of years left in SWTOR, that EA would be doing more for it than they are.
I do not have a personal axe to grind with Bioware or EA (who are the same thing). I liked Bioware I liked every game they made. SWTOR is what it is, and I just say what it is, It is one side of things.
Star Trek Online - Best Free MMORPG of 2012
No they won't.
They're still stringing along Warhammer which obviously has way lower net income for them. So why in the hell would they close this game?
But does Warhammer require 500k subs ($7.5 million per month) to break even?
If there is plenty people paying and getting them that, then it will carry on, but otherwise it is a financial burden. SWTOR just costs too much to operate.
I really doubt you or any other random forum poster knows anything about the current situation and how much it costs them to run SWTOR. The game isn't even that huge anymore or churning out huge content updates that they need a huge staff to run it. What is left there in SWTOR that requires huge chunk of money now after release?
It was stated before launch, and it was stated again there on 1st Aug, after the many layoffs and cut backs, and I do not see that fact changing, unless they say so. They can easily say that 500K figure, but seems stupid not to say something else, as that 500K figure gives the impression that game will be shut down if they can not get that many people. If they were to speak again and mention it only needs 200K then it would show the game has more chance of surviving, and more people will be willing to put time and money into it, I know I would. This is the main reason why I am not playing SWTOR as much as I am.
I find it hard to believe that fear of shutting down is the only reason that is keeping you away from SWTOR.
However, i still can't find one logical reason as to why SWTOR is still a very expensive MMO to run and why they would need a huge staff to keep it running. Yes they spent a lot of money on it and only EA knows the profit they are making after F2P changes but that still doesn't answer the question i asked 'why is it too expensive to operate"? the game hardly gets any huge content updates or expansions which suggest they are not spending much on SWTOR at the moment.
What is the point in putting money and time in a MMO that gets shut down before its time? Been there with that with SWG and COH, not going there again.
If it had been a roraring success close to WOW, then yes it most certainly would have made a differrence
It is too expensive to operate beause they need $7.5 million to break even. They make that or more than that, then they make a profit, and are in the black. They get less than that, then they are in the red.
If you can find more info to show that they will be OK, then fine, but even the last statement they said F2P was OK, but were not confident it would sustain being OK into the future
Since release of WOW can you name me one MMO that was a rroaring success like WOW? and yet they are all alive and kicking.
Moreover, considering it is an EA which doesn't give a damn about its player base and would rather shut the game off (Earth and beyond anyone?) than incur losses, one has to think logicaly that the only reason why SWTOR is still going on is because EA is recouping its cost back. Although not at the same pace it expected but still is.
The initial investment in production is not same as ongoing cost to operate. two different things. That is the reason why i asked that what would be the reason for EA to pump more money into swtor..hence the operating cost.
I don't need to show anything here because unlike you i have no vested interest in SWTOR and i am not keenly watching or waiting for it to die off because i have a personal axe to grind with Bioware and EA.
Still you have not made any convincing case that SWTOR will indeed just shut down. All i see is pure seculations and grudge against a praticular game /company.
SWTOR only needs to be a roaring success like WOW as they need $7.5 million to break even. Other MMOs do not need this. Any other MMO who had the subs of SWTOR would not have needed to take the game F2P. SWTOR needs $7.5 million.
They said in the last finnacial statemnt that F2P was just OK, and nothing awesome, but it will only be fine if it stays that way for the rest of the year and onwards. If it loses players this year like it did last year, then it may not see past 2013
If they were now making a profit I would expect Makeb to be in by the end of 2012, and MORE content coming for Spring as well, but all that is happening is Makeb
STO only has a fraction of the players of SWTOR but they are doing more for it, hiring more staff, and even got Denise Crosby, and have already put in Season 7 which was announced after Makeb, plus they have Season 8 and Season 9 outlined. 3 major content updates vs 1 with SWTOR. STO is not a roaring success, but progressing nicely. Rift is not a roraring success either, but no doom and gloom statements from Trion about the game, but it has had positive reactions to their expansion, even costing more, and has not even gone F2P yet. All other companies do not really give off any doom and gloom. Even SOE did more for SWG in its last 6 months after the closure announcement than EA has been doing for SWTOR.
It is not guranateed that SWTOR will shut down, and I am not saying that, just that it is not out of the realms of possibility, and its prognosis is not good. EA are just not doing enough to keep people interested. SOE did all they could to keep SWG alive, and devs worked around the clock in their own time, because they loved it. SWG only got shut down due to the licence, and they SOE still renewed it sverela times after the NGE. If SWTOR only has a 2 year licence and not enough money to pay for its renewal then bye bye SWTOR. If they have it for 5 years then it may last 5 years. But I would think that if they had plenty of years left in SWTOR, that EA would be doing more for it than they are.
Why jump to a new post and post the same thing you already posted in another swtor today? Kind of makes people wonder what is your real purpose on posting on swtor?What? I am just responding to each person, and saying what I think is relevant
The real purpose of posting on SWTOR is to try and make SWTOR better for me and others to play it more. I have already spent loads on the game, and for EA to stop progressing the game fast enough is just a rip off. They wanted the game to be a MMO, so they need to treat it like one. If they can not, then it needs to go B2P like TSW did. It is certainly not worth being a game with constant costs.
Star Trek Online - Best Free MMORPG of 2012
SWTOR is mainly down to lazy developers than lazy gamers. SWTOR is the most expensive game ever to be made, and tonnes of content was cut from the game within the six months prior to launch because they wanted the game released ASAP. If they had delayed the launch or got more people on it to make the content viable instead of cutting it out, then maybe things would have been different
If a game is worthwhile and good then people will pay for it. If people wanted a free ride with SWTOR there would not have been as much as 2 million sales. MMOs are designed to last you a long time, and not a week or so like single player games. EA reckoned they had a 10 year lifespan with SWTOR, and I doubt over 1.5 million people who bought SWTOR at launch who knew about the monthly fee saw themselves quitting by the time it went F2P in Nov.
Star Trek Online - Best Free MMORPG of 2012
This new generation is also led by dumbed down games, and ones that you do not feel like playing and ceratinly not paying years on. I was willing to pay for several SWG accounts per month, and so was others, but SWTOR is not worthy paying even one after you have done a couple of characters. WOW was a fluke to get the millions of subscribers, but then EA comes along and tries to copy its financial success. EA is just in it for the money, and put zero heart and soul into it - they do not care about whether the game is fun or not just as long as people pay money for it, whereas other developers do it for the money but also mainly do it for the fun and get a thrill from seeing people happy, which is probably what prompted the Doctors to leave Bioware - EA sucked all the fun out of creating games.Star Trek Online - Best Free MMORPG of 2012
SWTOR is not exactly F2P in many peoples eyes, but a freemium extended trial 1-50, which will be even more-so highlighted when the level cap goes to 55 for non-F2P'ers. Anyways, the number of "MMO'ers" has been on the rise, but the number of people paying a subscription fee hasn't changed much over the last several years. 6.1 million active subscribers in 2007, 6.7 million active subscribers in 2012 (Western region). Saying all gamers are lazy isn't exactly true. My UI is messed up but here is the link: http://www.superdataresearch.com/case-study-does-it-pay-to-switch-to-free-to-play/Want a nice understanding of life? Try Spirit Science: "The Human History"
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U8NNHmV3QPw&feature=plcp
Recognize the voice? Yep sounds like Penny Arcade's Extra Credits.