Medieval Sandbox MMO from independent team

Bercilak

Originally posted by Darak
Do items decay ? otherwise they get recycled for ever, so no need for people to build new ones.

yes they do. They have a durability which is reduced per usage and over time. Comparable to Minecraft. So when you go out to do some wood-chopping you better take an alternate axe with you.

Bercilak

Originally posted by Dihoru

Originally posted by Allizar
Interesting, but PvP is a dealbreaker for me. I play sandboxes to build, not to have what I build or earn taken by some random gank.

Then what you build is pointless and you won't have enough space to build whatever you wanna build because nothing gets destroyed. You can likely hire people to protect your stuff :P.

100% Agree.

 

For us this is an essential game mechanism. If this is nothing for you, fair enough. We do not want to please everyone we have a clear vision of what we want to build.

Bercilak

Originally posted by Allizar

Originally posted by Dihoru

Originally posted by Allizar
Interesting, but PvP is a dealbreaker for me. I play sandboxes to build, not to have what I build or earn taken by some random gank.

Then what you build is pointless and you won't have enough space to build whatever you wanna build because nothing gets destroyed. You can likely hire people to protect your stuff :P.

What's wrong with decay?

 

My problem with it is not that people can destroy it, it's that people will go out of their way in games like this to destroy it for "fun", which is not realistic.

We are aware of these things happening. BUT ... we think in our game it is extremely unattractive to do it. Why? Because our game puts a huge focus on digital value. Economics will play an essential part. Griefing for fun is extremely expensive. Still people 

 

Another example: If you conquer an enemy territory you have two options

a) destroy the buildings on their and build new ones

b) take huge taxes on the usage of these buildings, eventually even find an agreement with the previous owner that you share the income of a forge for instance (you can take fees from others using your industry buildings)

 

Economically option b) is the smarter choice and if you dont act economically you will be fall behind compared to other guilds. In general we want the economy to be a key part everywhere in Albion, meaning that being rich makes you more powerfull then having good reflexes or a strong armor set. You can even hire mercenarys to protect your area (this feature is although not implemented yet but planned for Q3 this year)

Darak

So items deacy, you can kill anyone, you have to build everything and there is territorial pvp. Ok next on check list (i have a list, its got that bad).

Will there be any player skill involved, will there be anything to grind and will there be anything like eve's safe area system (ie graded playing areas). 

Bercilak

Originally posted by Dihoru

Originally posted by Cryght
will i be able to have a house?  it says build cities and towns, such  but whats the good if we cant also own our own bit of safehaven a place to call home and decorate?

http://albiononline.com/player-driven-economy/ scroll down.

 

Currently you can build player houses (currently 5 different ones available). They are your storage room for all your virtual goods. 

Another feature planned for Q3 is that you have huge modification possibilities of your houses and you can heavily upgrade them. 

 

Small Sidenote: Everything what we have currently is the result of 10 month development time. We have a long term vision of Albion with lots of more "sandbox-like" features but we hope we get the time to implement them. So please hang on there with us guys if not everything is perfect from the start, we are a dedicated team working hard every day for this vision of a sandbox MMO.

Bercilak

Originally posted by Darak

So items deacy, you can kill anyone, you have to build everything and there is territorial pvp. Ok next on check list (i have a list, its got that bad).

Will there be any player skill involved, will there be anything to grind and will there be anything like eve's safe area system (ie graded playing areas). 

Two questions

#1 (Grinding, player skill)

No there is no grinding at all nor any skill system. So there is no killing monster X 1000 times just to increase stats by 2%. Of course what we have for instance is that buildings houses takes some effort in terms that they need quite some ressources. If you do it alone this can be perceived as grinding if you make this a team effort in your guild it is easily done.

Regarding the skills, it works as follows.

If you craft a sword for instance you can choose two active and one passive spell to craft onto this sword from a selection of 6 (just an example, probably will change 20 more times during beta). If you wear this sword you can active these spells. Of course when you craft a plate armor you have different spells available then when you craft a cloth armor and so on.

But the interesting part is that you can create any different combination. So if you ever wanted to wear a mage robe but wield sword and shield this is the game where it even makes sense to do so. 

And another interesting part is that you can from the looks of an enemy guess approximatly what kind of spells someone is having access to. We try to give certain items a certain character. So plate armor is all about protection. Or a hammer is mainly for crwod control spells. 

 

#2 Safe Areas

Yes there are lots of safe areas, the system though is a bit different compared to EVE. Ill explain it another time, since my post is a wall of text already

Kezzadrix

Originally posted by Kaneth

Originally posted by Crunchy222

Originally posted by MMOExposed

Why always have to have full loot FFA PvP?

when will a sandbox developer do something original with the PvP for once. 

 

Anyway, its a interesting concept. I will check it out.

 

Full loot adds so much to a game imo. 

 

I know a lot of people cant look past it, and envision a world where high level players are ganking them non stop for their loot.

 

Its sad really, considering full loot does wonders for a games economy and makes crafting vital.

 

In the end, full loot games always make gear very easy to obtain and stockpile.  Trade off for potentially losing stuff is pvp that has risk, which is good...pve that has some excitement...crafting made a key component of the game rather than a side dish.

 

 

People need to get over the fear of losing pixles.  Your never losing that putple raid set that took 3 months to get....and only those who refuse to adapt get griefed.  It does take some getting use to...learning when to bank, learning to perhaps scout an area first, learning to stay by freindlies or clan member, and learning to accept loss of improve.

 

Its exactly this crowd of people who begs for something different yet refuses to play games that dont follow the same old trend.  Its different and risk is involved...which imo, give the game a layer of depth that no themepark can match.

 

Game looks good btw.

It has nothing to do with the fear of losing pixels for me. It's the fact that full loot pvp games tend to cater to the lowest common denominator. The act of not being able to leave a certain area because someone is camping the hell out of it, is frustrating at best, and bordering on harrassment at worst. I understand that the concept can be appealing, but full loot pvp only ensures that a game will only be niche.

PvE Sandbox games can exist, with systems to ensure that gear will need to be replaced, and have new and interesting concepts to ensure that the game is different than a themepark. However, no developer out there has really had the foresight and intelligence to attempt to create such a game. Some games have come close, like Asheron's Call, but they are still lacking many typical sandbox elements.

The very first MMO I played was Ultima Online in 1997 and it was full loot pvp.  Sure, I experienced moments of being ganked and losing my things, especially while my character skills were low.   When that happened, I got myself re-equiped and went back to doing what I wanted to do, even if i had to go to another area to avoid danger.  Keep in mind that these kinds of games are not meant to be played solo.  You will always have more success when you play as a group.  If a group of players causes you greif, make some friends, organize a small army or form a guild and drive those players away.  The players who were causing you trouble will either do the same (which will make for some fun battles) or they will go hassle someone else.  The people who tend to not like this style of game are the kind that prefer to play solo all the time or with only a small group.  Stricty PvE games are probably better for that play style.

Looks like a good game Bercilak.  I will definitely keep an eye on this one.

MumboJumbo

Originally posted by Bercilak

#2 Safe Areas

Yes there are lots of safe areas, the system though is a bit different compared to EVE. Ill explain it another time, since my post is a wall of text already

Yes, if you could explain the territory control, that would help conceptualise your game.

Ok, feedback from the website: V. good.

1. Core features are clear and easy to see quickly (you guys honestly get it (ie hierarchy of design structure! ~ not surprised to see you are from Germany?!)
2. It is easy to find out WHO you are (our team - I like to spend money on people I like ie) and your VISION: Why make another mmorpg. Tick.
3. Your core ideas really appeal: Combat: RPS, Territory, Player-Guilds/factions, Economy, Cross-platform single-server, non-class based v good; medieval is a good choice too.
4. graphics are nice and clean and attractive and likely good for performance.
5. I think Vendetta Online is also cross-platform single-shard mmo, however, ie you may be 2nd in that respect?

=

• Q: How do battles work to ensure players can arrange to attack and defend land atst?
• Q: How do you limit one super-guild monopolizing everything?

 

 

Dihoru

Originally posted by MumboJumbo

Originally posted by Bercilak

#2 Safe Areas

Yes there are lots of safe areas, the system though is a bit different compared to EVE. Ill explain it another time, since my post is a wall of text already

Yes, if you could explain the territory control, that would help conceptualise your game.

Ok, feedback from the website: V. good.

1. Core features are clear and easy to see quickly (you guys honestly get it (ie hierarchy of design structure! ~ not surprised to see you are from Germany?!)
2. It is easy to find out WHO you are (our team - I like to spend money on people I like ie) and your VISION: Why make another mmorpg. Tick.
3. Your core ideas really appeal: Combat: RPS, Territory, Player-Guilds/factions, Economy, Cross-platform single-server, non-class based v good; medieval is a good choice too.
4. graphics are nice and clean and attractive and likely good for performance.
5. I think Vendetta Online is also cross-platform single-shard mmo, however, ie you may be 2nd in that respect?

=

• Q: How do battles work to ensure players can arrange to attack and defend land atst?
• Q: How do you limit one super-guild monopolizing everything?

 

 

I think vendetta is single shard more out of neccesity than actual desire :-?? no dissing the game but I remember a time when they had multiple servers.

Coman

Originally posted by Bercilak

Just FYI. Currently on death there is a 50/50 roll on each item if it is being destroyed forever. Don't blame us for this but it is one of our sinks we need for the economy. We are highly concerned to avoid any kind of inflation and want to keep the value of the items. 

But please keep in mind that we are still testing out a lot of things and we are carefully listening to everything being said by veteran MMO players which we consider our target group. We do not want to create a mass market game but rather supply the niche. 

Sound good. This would have the same effect as a damage system. This is also not bad IF the items are not hard to replace. Meaning that even poeple who are bad in PvP can still have decent enough gear without the need to constantly grind for money or whatever. 

Torgrim

Originally posted by Kezzadrix

Originally posted by Kaneth

Originally posted by Crunchy222

Originally posted by MMOExposed

Why always have to have full loot FFA PvP?

when will a sandbox developer do something original with the PvP for once. 

 

Anyway, its a interesting concept. I will check it out.

 

Full loot adds so much to a game imo. 

 

I know a lot of people cant look past it, and envision a world where high level players are ganking them non stop for their loot.

 

Its sad really, considering full loot does wonders for a games economy and makes crafting vital.

 

In the end, full loot games always make gear very easy to obtain and stockpile.  Trade off for potentially losing stuff is pvp that has risk, which is good...pve that has some excitement...crafting made a key component of the game rather than a side dish.

 

 

People need to get over the fear of losing pixles.  Your never losing that putple raid set that took 3 months to get....and only those who refuse to adapt get griefed.  It does take some getting use to...learning when to bank, learning to perhaps scout an area first, learning to stay by freindlies or clan member, and learning to accept loss of improve.

 

Its exactly this crowd of people who begs for something different yet refuses to play games that dont follow the same old trend.  Its different and risk is involved...which imo, give the game a layer of depth that no themepark can match.

 

Game looks good btw.

It has nothing to do with the fear of losing pixels for me. It's the fact that full loot pvp games tend to cater to the lowest common denominator. The act of not being able to leave a certain area because someone is camping the hell out of it, is frustrating at best, and bordering on harrassment at worst. I understand that the concept can be appealing, but full loot pvp only ensures that a game will only be niche.

PvE Sandbox games can exist, with systems to ensure that gear will need to be replaced, and have new and interesting concepts to ensure that the game is different than a themepark. However, no developer out there has really had the foresight and intelligence to attempt to create such a game. Some games have come close, like Asheron's Call, but they are still lacking many typical sandbox elements.

The very first MMO I played was Ultima Online in 1997 and it was full loot pvp.  Sure, I experienced moments of being ganked and losing my things, especially while my character skills were low.   When that happened, I got myself re-equiped and went back to doing what I wanted to do, even if i had to go to another area to avoid danger.  Keep in mind that these kinds of games are not meant to be played solo.  You will always have more success when you play as a group.  If a group of players causes you greif, make some friends, organize a small army or form a guild and drive those players away.  The players who were causing you trouble will either do the same (which will make for some fun battles) or they will go hassle someone else.  The people who tend to not like this style of game are the kind that prefer to play solo all the time or with only a small group.  Stricty PvE games are probably better for that play style.

Looks like a good game Bercilak.  I will definitely keep an eye on this one.

 

You can't take UO as an example these days, why?

Simple really, MMOs has gotten so mainstream these days that the gankers and grefiers population are 1000x times more now than back in UO times.

There was a reason why trammel got introduced 2 -3 years after the release.

Dihoru

Originally posted by Torgrim

Originally posted by Kezzadrix

Originally posted by Kaneth

Originally posted by Crunchy222

Originally posted by MMOExposed

Why always have to have full loot FFA PvP?

when will a sandbox developer do something original with the PvP for once. 

 

Anyway, its a interesting concept. I will check it out.

 

Full loot adds so much to a game imo. 

 

I know a lot of people cant look past it, and envision a world where high level players are ganking them non stop for their loot.

 

Its sad really, considering full loot does wonders for a games economy and makes crafting vital.

 

In the end, full loot games always make gear very easy to obtain and stockpile.  Trade off for potentially losing stuff is pvp that has risk, which is good...pve that has some excitement...crafting made a key component of the game rather than a side dish.

 

 

People need to get over the fear of losing pixles.  Your never losing that putple raid set that took 3 months to get....and only those who refuse to adapt get griefed.  It does take some getting use to...learning when to bank, learning to perhaps scout an area first, learning to stay by freindlies or clan member, and learning to accept loss of improve.

 

Its exactly this crowd of people who begs for something different yet refuses to play games that dont follow the same old trend.  Its different and risk is involved...which imo, give the game a layer of depth that no themepark can match.

 

Game looks good btw.

It has nothing to do with the fear of losing pixels for me. It's the fact that full loot pvp games tend to cater to the lowest common denominator. The act of not being able to leave a certain area because someone is camping the hell out of it, is frustrating at best, and bordering on harrassment at worst. I understand that the concept can be appealing, but full loot pvp only ensures that a game will only be niche.

PvE Sandbox games can exist, with systems to ensure that gear will need to be replaced, and have new and interesting concepts to ensure that the game is different than a themepark. However, no developer out there has really had the foresight and intelligence to attempt to create such a game. Some games have come close, like Asheron's Call, but they are still lacking many typical sandbox elements.

The very first MMO I played was Ultima Online in 1997 and it was full loot pvp.  Sure, I experienced moments of being ganked and losing my things, especially while my character skills were low.   When that happened, I got myself re-equiped and went back to doing what I wanted to do, even if i had to go to another area to avoid danger.  Keep in mind that these kinds of games are not meant to be played solo.  You will always have more success when you play as a group.  If a group of players causes you greif, make some friends, organize a small army or form a guild and drive those players away.  The players who were causing you trouble will either do the same (which will make for some fun battles) or they will go hassle someone else.  The people who tend to not like this style of game are the kind that prefer to play solo all the time or with only a small group.  Stricty PvE games are probably better for that play style.

Looks like a good game Bercilak.  I will definitely keep an eye on this one.

 

You can't take UO as an example these days, why?

Simple really, MMOs has gotten so mainstream these days that the gankers and grefiers population are 1000x times more now than back in UO times.

There was a reason why trammel got introduced 2 -3 years after the release.

Dear God do you honestly believe that? XD it isn't that gankers increased in numbers it's that ganking became easier, traditional old style UO gankers were a cut above the themepark ganktards of today and that's because they had to live with the consequences of their actions, the reason why UO introduced trammel was because they also broke their game by making it less taxing to gank people in it (indirectly of course), the bounty hunting system in UO was never properly functional and they also began dumbing down/wowifing their game but you see once you dumb it down you remove consequences from your actions and once you do that ganking becomes more rampant and from there devs hit the ejection button by putting in safe zones such as trammel.

 

Also as stated many times before this won't be mainstream and gankers will have to live with their actions.

 

@the devs: Could you guys put a system in like EVE's API key system and allow people to steal from their guilds? That way guilds have reasons to check your api key and ergo the characters you have on your account, this may sound intrusive but it will also allow another level of metagaming and provide another way to strike back at reckless gankers (if a ganker has an alt to support his ways if he ever joins a guild people know who the alt is, hey presto he has to pay for his actions regardless).

Kushkut

Well, props for going through all the trouble doing this.

My points:

1. Cross-platform: I never knew people would actually prefer to play MMO-games on their smart phones, but I guess you have done your market research. I for myself (being a smartphone, tablet, laptop and a PC user) can't really imagine playing MMO on any other platform than desktop PC. Why? Because it's just not efficient, you waste time pointing and clicking the screen and you get mad doing it. Plus you sacrifice so much for having the game this way... Not just graphics wise but depth wise as well.

The only thing I could see myself using a tablet (I would never be bored enough to play a game on my phone) for in an MMO are some "mini-games" such as crafting/market place trading.

2. To touch the full loot debate a little bit, this does not cater to post UO/EQ/EVE players at all. Do you think your game is hot shit enough to attract enough of the old school crowd? I understand this is your target group, not the new MMO era kids. But you see, there are actually some interesting sandbox titles coming out this year.

OR am I completely misunderstanding your desired competitive advantage? Are you really going with the "mobile MMORPG experience theme"? Is the cross-platform your biggest sales point?

In any case, I wish you the best of luck. There's some awkward grammar on the website by the way, would recommend to let an English native take a look at it.

 

 

Phaserlight

Originally posted by Kushkut

Well, props for going through all the trouble doing this.

My points:

1. Cross-platform: I never knew people would actually prefer to play MMO-games on their smart phones, but I guess you have done your market research. I for myself (being a smartphone, tablet, laptop and a PC user) can't really imagine playing MMO on any other platform than desktop PC. Why? Because it's just not efficient, you waste time pointing and clicking the screen and you get mad doing it. Plus you sacrifice so much for having the game this way... Not just graphics wise but depth wise as well. 

That's not really true in my experience; Vendetta Online has a full mobile port, and it plays very well without sacrificing any depth of gameplay.  For further reading, see this reddit convo with the lead dev.  He admits it was a challenge, but I think they did a very good job of making it playable on a smaller screen by using things like the accelerometer, touch areas (on the Xperia Play), and supporting plug-in game controllers along with redesigning parts of the interface.  Vendetta is kind of a unique example, I'll grant.

Dihoru

Originally posted by Kushkut

2. To touch the full loot debate a little bit, this does not cater to post UO/EQ/EVE players at all. Do you think your game is hot shit enough to attract enough of the old school crowd? I understand this is your target group, not the new MMO era kids. But you see, there are actually some interesting sandbox titles coming out this year.

Son I just think you put the father of sandboxes and its best son up to date next to the father of themeparks and said that those crowds interlap... they don't... not in the real sense and speaking as a EVE-Online veteran with over 7 years of experience and a abid hate of PVP (mostly because I've rarely been on the winning side and the only times I've walked out of a fight happy was when I was the recon pilot) I love the full loot system in EVE-Online (granted not everything on you drops when you die but it is a full loot system, you lose everything on your ship Hell if you're not careful you'll lose your pod to boot) because it makes the game so much more real, sure I fucking hated when I got jumped in a wormhole in my 1.5 bil tengu and lost the pod too but I also got a sadistic satisfaction that nothing of value from my ship dropped and my pod was only worth 200 mil so they didn't even get a good killmail.

 

True it will discourage some people from joining this game's community at first but you cannot rationally say that once the community and the game's dynamics stabilize that more daring and intrepid players won't be lured into a game that supplies a UO-esque experience, sans the bugs and exploits and with the thrill of danger and the excitement of loot somewhere out there in the wilds. This my dear chap is what a UO/EVE player craves, we may curse to high heaven when we get ganked but we also do a happy dance when we get home with a bag full of goodies,  a mind full of exciting tales and a few new good friends .

Kushkut

Originally posted by Dihoru

Originally posted by Kushkut

2. To touch the full loot debate a little bit, this does not cater to post UO/EQ/EVE players at all. Do you think your game is hot shit enough to attract enough of the old school crowd? I understand this is your target group, not the new MMO era kids. But you see, there are actually some interesting sandbox titles coming out this year.

Son I just think you put the father of sandboxes and its best son up to date next to the father of themeparks and said that those crowds interlap... they don't... not in the real sense and speaking as a EVE-Online veteran with over 7 years of experience and a abid hate of PVP (mostly because I've rarely been on the winning side and the only times I've walked out of a fight happy was when I was the recon pilot) I love the full loot system in EVE-Online (granted not everything on you drops when you die but it is a full loot system, you lose everything on your ship Hell if you're not careful you'll lose your pod to boot) because it makes the game so much more real, sure I fucking hated when I got jumped in a wormhole in my 1.5 bil tengu and lost the pod too but I also got a sadistic satisfaction that nothing of value from my ship dropped and my pod was only worth 200 mil so they didn't even get a good killmail.

 

True it will discourage some people from joining this game's community at first but you cannot rationally say that once the community and the game's dynamics stabilize that more daring and intrepid players won't be lured into a game that supplies a UO-esque experience, sans the bugs and exploits and with the thrill of danger and the excitement of loot somewhere out there in the wilds. This my dear chap is what a UO/EVE player craves, we may curse to high heaven when we get ganked but we also do a happy dance when we get home with a bag full of goodies,  a mind full of exciting tales and a few new good friends .

What the fuck just happened.

Dihoru

Originally posted by Kushkut

Originally posted by Dihoru

Originally posted by Kushkut

2. To touch the full loot debate a little bit, this does not cater to post UO/EQ/EVE players at all. Do you think your game is hot shit enough to attract enough of the old school crowd? I understand this is your target group, not the new MMO era kids. But you see, there are actually some interesting sandbox titles coming out this year.

Son I just think you put the father of sandboxes and its best son up to date next to the father of themeparks and said that those crowds interlap... they don't... not in the real sense and speaking as a EVE-Online veteran with over 7 years of experience and a abid hate of PVP (mostly because I've rarely been on the winning side and the only times I've walked out of a fight happy was when I was the recon pilot) I love the full loot system in EVE-Online (granted not everything on you drops when you die but it is a full loot system, you lose everything on your ship Hell if you're not careful you'll lose your pod to boot) because it makes the game so much more real, sure I fucking hated when I got jumped in a wormhole in my 1.5 bil tengu and lost the pod too but I also got a sadistic satisfaction that nothing of value from my ship dropped and my pod was only worth 200 mil so they didn't even get a good killmail.

 

True it will discourage some people from joining this game's community at first but you cannot rationally say that once the community and the game's dynamics stabilize that more daring and intrepid players won't be lured into a game that supplies a UO-esque experience, sans the bugs and exploits and with the thrill of danger and the excitement of loot somewhere out there in the wilds. This my dear chap is what a UO/EVE player craves, we may curse to high heaven when we get ganked but we also do a happy dance when we get home with a bag full of goodies,  a mind full of exciting tales and a few new good friends .

What the fuck just happened.

Corrected your faulty logic and explained why it was faulty (Everquest and Ultima Online are two very different MMOs and EVE Online is Ultima Online's direct descendant in many ways so you equating players from those communities as wanting the same things in a game... Hell most EVE-Online players will likely dislike Albion because traditional EVE tactics won't work as the combat in terms of choke points will be less forgiving in Albion, Ultima Online-ers might be put off by the lack of recognizable , to them, skill sets and Everquest players will have the same gripe with the game as WoW/Rift/Tera/etc players will have with Albion: OH MAH GAWD!!! FULL LOOT DROP ON DEATH!??!!? GANKER GAME!!!!).

rounner

Originally posted by Dihoru

Originally posted by Kushkut

Originally posted by Dihoru

Originally posted by Kushkut

2. To touch the full loot debate a little bit, this does not cater to post UO/EQ/EVE players at all. Do you think your game is hot shit enough to attract enough of the old school crowd? I understand this is your target group, not the new MMO era kids. But you see, there are actually some interesting sandbox titles coming out this year.

Son I just think you put the father of sandboxes and its best son up to date next to the father of themeparks and said that those crowds interlap... they don't... not in the real sense and speaking as a EVE-Online veteran with over 7 years of experience and a abid hate of PVP (mostly because I've rarely been on the winning side and the only times I've walked out of a fight happy was when I was the recon pilot) I love the full loot system in EVE-Online (granted not everything on you drops when you die but it is a full loot system, you lose everything on your ship Hell if you're not careful you'll lose your pod to boot) because it makes the game so much more real, sure I fucking hated when I got jumped in a wormhole in my 1.5 bil tengu and lost the pod too but I also got a sadistic satisfaction that nothing of value from my ship dropped and my pod was only worth 200 mil so they didn't even get a good killmail.

 

True it will discourage some people from joining this game's community at first but you cannot rationally say that once the community and the game's dynamics stabilize that more daring and intrepid players won't be lured into a game that supplies a UO-esque experience, sans the bugs and exploits and with the thrill of danger and the excitement of loot somewhere out there in the wilds. This my dear chap is what a UO/EVE player craves, we may curse to high heaven when we get ganked but we also do a happy dance when we get home with a bag full of goodies,  a mind full of exciting tales and a few new good friends .

What the fuck just happened.

Correct your faulty logic and explained why it was faulty (Everquest and Ultima Online are two very different MMOs and EVE Online is Ultima Online's direct descendant in many ways so you equating players from those communities as wanting the same things in a game... Hell most EVE-Online players will likely dislike Albion because traditional EVE tactics won't work as the combat in terms of choke points will be less forgiving in Albion, Ultima Online-ers might be put off by the lack of recognizable , to them, skill sets and Everquest players will have the same gripe with the game as WoW/Rift/Tera/etc players will have with Albion: OH MAH GAWD!!! FULL LOOT DROP ON DEATH!??!!? GANKER GAME!!!!).

Can you take the losers ship in eve or just take cargo? How does this game give equitable reward for different playstyles (ie adventuring for loot versus stealing loot from adventurers)?

Akulas

Should make it so if you have an attack skill then you automaticly become pvp that way you can still build stuff with not worrying about being killed.

Bercilak

Originally posted by Coman

Originally posted by Bercilak

Just FYI. Currently on death there is a 50/50 roll on each item if it is being destroyed forever. Don't blame us for this but it is one of our sinks we need for the economy. We are highly concerned to avoid any kind of inflation and want to keep the value of the items. 

But please keep in mind that we are still testing out a lot of things and we are carefully listening to everything being said by veteran MMO players which we consider our target group. We do not want to create a mass market game but rather supply the niche. 

Sound good. This would have the same effect as a damage system. This is also not bad IF the items are not hard to replace. Meaning that even poeple who are bad in PvP can still have decent enough gear without the need to constantly grind for money or whatever. 

The items are not hard to replace. See it more from a minecraft or EVE perspective where you have plenty of swords or ships. You loose them easily but it is also not so hard to get new ones.

 

Of course this depends on the tier of the items/buildings. Currently we have 6 Tier implemented (with a maximum of 8 planned) 

 

Even more important getting good gear from ressources is something completely different. We expect a lot of people professionalising on crafting in particular. In EVE Online you buy a miner in Albion Online you buy a crafting leather set  or special bags which allows you to carry more resources. 

fernetek

Apologies if this has already been asked, but how is the game controlled on PC? Honestly, as awesome as this game looks, I dunno  if I can play another Runescape-style point-and-click game rather than a WASD format.

Bercilak

Originally posted by fernetek
Apologies if this has already been asked, but how is the game controlled on PC? Honestly, as awesome as this game looks, I dunno  if I can play another Runescape-style point-and-click game rather than a WASD format.

No need to apologise!

Diablo/UO like controls (so fixed camera in iso perspective or as some say 2.5D)

Dihoru

Originally posted by Bercilak

Originally posted by fernetek
Apologies if this has already been asked, but how is the game controlled on PC? Honestly, as awesome as this game looks, I dunno  if I can play another Runescape-style point-and-click game rather than a WASD format.

No need to apologise!

Diablo/UO like controls (so fixed camera in iso perspective or as some say 2.5D)

Macro era UO or hotbar era UO? ( I am not assuming you have diablo style only 2 skills active out of n selected via easily modifiable tabs)

Axehilt

Some general feedback (my professional background: ~13 years game industry, ~5 years game design):

• Art style is excllent.  Compliments to the art team!
• The desire is to get away from a grind, yet some form of a grind (content to consume) needs to exist somewhere in the game.  Specifically some reason to spend a lot of time in the game needs to exist.
  • Those activity(ies) will be considered "grind" relative to how fun they are compared to how much time they require.  (When a player says "grind" they're saying they're bored with having to spend X hours in activity Y)
• So one concern is the activities most likely to be considered grind might be building up crafting capabilities.
  • The potential problem is that if PVP is intended to be a focus then less design muscle being applied to the combat system is a potentially bad move (especially if you have to develop for multiple platforms.)
• Full loot PVP is, of course, going to be one of the most massive sources of player dropoff.
  • This represents a design focus of, "Is our game painful enough to play?"
  • The most successful design teams have the opposite focus, "Is our game fun enough to play?"
• "Rock, Paper, Scissors" combat design is most enjoyable when it's based on player decisions during a fight.  Your opponent uses Skill A, and you skillfully counter with Skill B (the "rock" to his "scissors") and that puts you in an advantageous position -- with enough similarly skillful skill decisions, you'll win the fight.
  • Contrast this with many MMORPG PVP systems where Mage might be the counter to Warrior, which results in a very flat battle when it comes to singular combat.
  • This is especially important if you want to avoid zerg domination, because it means battles are won through consistently skillful decisions, rather than simply fielding enough of the right classes (loadouts in your case) of players so that you can strongly counter whatever you face.

But of course this is all based on a website feature list, so take it as you will.

Dihoru

Originally posted by Axehilt

Some general feedback (my professional background: ~13 years game industry, ~5 years game design):

• Art style is excllent.  Compliments to the art team!
• The desire is to get away from a grind, yet some form of a grind (content to consume) needs to exist somewhere in the game.  Specifically some reason to spend a lot of time in the game needs to exist.
  • Those activity(ies) will be considered "grind" relative to how fun they are compared to how much time they require.  (When a player says "grind" they're saying they're bored with having to spend X hours in activity Y)
• So one concern is the activities most likely to be considered grind might be building up crafting capabilities.
  • The potential problem is that if PVP is intended to be a focus then less design muscle being applied to the combat system is a potentially bad move (especially if you have to develop for multiple platforms.)
• Full loot PVP is, of course, going to be one of the most massive sources of player dropoff.
  • This represents a design focus of, "Is our game painful enough to play?"
  • The most successful design teams have the opposite focus, "Is our game fun enough to play?"
• "Rock, Paper, Scissors" combat design is most enjoyable when it's based on player decisions during a fight.  Your opponent uses Skill A, and you skillfully counter with Skill B (the "rock" to his "scissors") and that puts you in an advantageous position -- with enough similarly skillful skill decisions, you'll win the fight.
  • Contrast this with many MMORPG PVP systems where Mage might be the counter to Warrior, which results in a very flat battle when it comes to singular combat.
  • This is especially important if you want to avoid zerg domination, because it means battles are won through consistently skillful decisions, rather than simply fielding enough of the right classes (loadouts in your case) of players so that you can strongly counter whatever you face.

But of course this is all based on a website feature list, so take it as you will.

The bits outlined in red are a fallacy especially the underlined bit in red. EVE-Online has skill grinds via the time sink, yes but a player whom knows what he is doing has effectively leveled the playing field with veteran players in 6 months of skill training and unlike EVE this won't work because the player will lose interest in a F2P game if he/she has to wait that long, Albion seems to be banking on the same long term grind as EVE Online though, assets grind, which is brilliant and pretty easy to achieve due to the sinks on items already in play.

The underlined bit in white is something I personally dislike in what you said because you're talking about balancing things in a very boring way for the player, the predictability of combat, the aggravation of having slightly less experienced players on your side, etc will drive many people away, again I look to EVE for an example of how to better balance things out: Incomparables, basically skills which do not counter each other directly but who's effects help the player counter another, considering they've already stated skills will be item based an incomparables based balancing system in combat could work miracles in making combat fun, engaging, unpredictable and utterly enjoyable. EVE-Online has this to the point two completely incomparable ship classes: Carrier and Interceptor can and will counter each other if in the hands of a skilled enough player (the interceptor can tackle a carrier  and hold it down easily long enough to call in backup and get it down).

 

Not to belitte what you said dude but those 18 years seem to have been spent building rather cookie cutter games by what you've said, might I suggest looking up extra credits and watching their takes on balance? And then looking up some indie games with more unique forms of grind and balance.