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There are no raids... can you live with that?

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  • jazz.bejazz.be Member UncommonPosts: 962
    Originally posted by kidas52
    Originally posted by jazz.be
    Meh...raids are so overrated. Aren't there other interesting coop games out there?

    No there aren't. All the new. Games have horrible late game content because of people like you that say you want that then leave the game after 4 months giving everyone else nothing to do.

    Perhaps you don't need a game with good late game content? Maybe you just need some cooperation game with no leveling, no RP, no stories, no progression other than raids? With just a mailbox, an AH lobby and some crafting stations?

  • IselinIselin Member LegendaryPosts: 18,719
    Originally posted by kidas52
    Originally posted by jazz.be
    Meh...raids are so overrated. Aren't there other interesting coop games out there?

    No there aren't. All the new. Games have horrible late game content because of people like you that say you want that then leave the game after 4 months giving everyone else nothing to do.

     Damn. it`s Jazz.be`s fault. I wondered who was responsible image

    "Social media gives legions of idiots the right to speak when they once only spoke at a bar after a glass of wine, without harming the community ... but now they have the same right to speak as a Nobel Prize winner. It's the invasion of the idiots”

    ― Umberto Eco

    “Microtransactions? In a single player role-playing game? Are you nuts?” 
    ― CD PROJEKT RED

  • laokokolaokoko Member UncommonPosts: 2,004
    I'm more concerned with bad dungeon.  And 4 man dungeon? what the heck? Where's the 5 man dungeon.  They might as well make 1 man dungeon if this keep up.
  • KarteliKarteli Member CommonPosts: 2,646
    Originally posted by laokoko
    I'm more concerned with bad dungeon.  And 4 man dungeon? what the heck? Where's the 5 man dungeon.  They might as well make 1 man dungeon if this keep up.

    As games become more and more antisocial, they will eventually be 2 man .. then 1 man dungeons.

     

    At least with a 1 man raid there won't be any in-game drama.  It will all be kept out of game, with the synopsis of drama revealed on forums.

    Want a nice understanding of life? Try Spirit Science: "The Human History"
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U8NNHmV3QPw&feature=plcp
    Recognize the voice? Yep sounds like Penny Arcade's Extra Credits.

  • GenadiGenadi Member UncommonPosts: 110
    Originally posted by Winelen

    What does one do at lvl 50? 

    I think organizing a raid with people is what makes an MMORPG an MMORPG to some extent....

    It brings that player to player connection, it establishes a "friendship" with specific players making the entire MMO expierence that much more enjoyable each time you log on. 

    PvP :     Is this another stand still until my attack goes off game? The age old argument that its more skill than tab target is just a silly argument IMO, what is skillful about putting your cross hairs on a target and mashing a few buttons? It makes for very slow boring combat imo, if anything let me put my cross hairs on you and hit my buttons all while jumping/strafing/running.

    Im struggling to find something exciting about this game, something new and innovative, something that will make me want to come back to the game over and over again......

     

    This my friends is the problem with new MMORPG's. Players like this who want to play an MMO not an MMORPG.

     

    I remember the days when MMORPG's were fun and challenge first and social second as an added bonus. Now it seems due to the very vocal crowd who agrees with above poster MMORPG's have become MMO's and content is demanded by players instead of created by them. It really is quite sad what's become of the genre.

  • DraneanDranean Member Posts: 77

    I dont see a problem with what the OP wrote in regards to no raids etc. Guildwars 2 as an example is enjoyable (at least for a while) and they don't have the option to raid either :)

  • GenadiGenadi Member UncommonPosts: 110
    Originally posted by morbidlymystic
    Originally posted by Genadi
    Originally posted by Nanfoodle
    Originally posted by GreenHell
    I didn't vote because I'd really have to see how enjoyable the rest of the game is. I just think it's odd that they wouldn't include raids of any sort. I like options and limiting those options in this day and age seems kind of foolish. They are basically alienating a large portion of the MMO demographic that could be potential revenue for them. Doesn't make much sense .

    This is one of the reasons I voted no. To me this seems like a big mistake to chuck out whats been a major part of MMOing for the past 15 years. I really hope they change their minds on this and not as an after thought with a bunch of 1/2 done raids that are not tripple A quality. You know there will be a bunch of hard core MMOers who will rip the content apart and get to end game and say "There is nothing to do" and quit. A lot of MMOers live for end game content and I have no clue how this game will float with no raids. Maybe as well as GW2?

     

    Hopefully the game won't attract those players. It's the 'Feedz me more content' scrubs that have ruined nearly every mmo I've enjoyed over the past 15 years. I haven't much hope for the game now anyways but if there are no raids it's a step in the right direction to creating something like a TES game which IMO must have a sandbox feel.

     

    You mean like WOW?  Seeing as its by far the best MMO to date, and its earnings absolutely DWARFS anything else out there that is a pretty bold statement. 

     

    Do you want to know what actually ruins new MMOs?  Pandering to hardcore entitled casuals that wan't items without effort is what ruins new MMOs.  People go through the content in a few weeks, and then get bored, and quit. 

     

     

    No not like WoW, WoW from the very beginning was made for  'Feedz me more content' scrubs.

     

    I think you missed my point, actually after reading your tired old WoW argument it's clear you did. What's ironic is you go on to make one of the points I did, saying... "Pandering to hardcore entitled casuals that wan't items without effort is what ruins new MMOs.  People go through the content in a few weeks, and then get bored, and quit".

     

    TES is a sandbox series, end game raiding in new instances created every few months is the exact opposite. Nearly every other MMORPG is themepark and thanks to a very vocal (IMO idiotic) playerbase it looks even the king of sandboxes is going the same way. For those like myself (I know there are many) we find it very sad a series so close to our hearts and so special is being warped into something so different and so common.

  • GenadiGenadi Member UncommonPosts: 110
    Originally posted by morbidlymystic

    You completely just straw manned that guy.  He said nothing of the sort, in fact its likely you are 100% wrong, and the exact opposite is true.

     

    Hard content demands that you group together and form thos social aspects.  Easy content allows you to be anti-social and play by yourself.

     

    WoW for example has all but eliminated the need tor social interaction for most of its playerbase most of the time.  Normal raids and Heroic raids are the only exception to this.

     

     

    Hard content demands that you group together and form thos social aspects.  Easy content allows you to be anti-social and play by yourself.

     

    That is such a ridiculous statement and so incorrect in so many ways. If you don't see how it's not my place to explain, I would only suggest play some more mmorpg's and do your homework before you post such dribble.

     

     

    Edit - For the last time, don't try and turn it into an argument over WoW being successful or not. It's the tired cliche every carebear uses every time a discussion like this arises. We all know it's successful, we all know how dominant it is, the discussion has nothing to do with that.

  • LivnthedreamLivnthedream Member Posts: 555
    Originally posted by morbidlymystic

    You completely just straw manned that guy.  He said nothing of the sort, in fact its likely you are 100% wrong, and the exact opposite is true.

     

    Hard content demands that you group together and form thos social aspects.  Easy content allows you to be anti-social and play by yourself.

     

    WoW for example has all but eliminated the need tor social interaction for most of its playerbase most of the time.  Normal raids and Heroic raids are the only exception to this.

    Do not forget high end arena and rbgs. Though Ganedi really should read his own quote, cause that too is dead wrong.

    http://chroniclesofthenerds.com/nerdfight/

    Y U NO FLIP TABLE?!?!?!

  • LivnthedreamLivnthedream Member Posts: 555
    Originally posted by Genadi

    Hard content demands that you group together and form thos social aspects.  Easy content allows you to be anti-social and play by yourself.

     

    That is such a ridiculous statement and so incorrect in so many ways. If you don't see how it's not my place to explain, I would only suggest play some more mmorpg's and do your homework before you post such dribble.

    What? Teamwork=socialization. Last I checked easy content does not promote it, and infact is often worse off with teamwork, for a variety of reasons.

    http://chroniclesofthenerds.com/nerdfight/

    Y U NO FLIP TABLE?!?!?!

  • GenadiGenadi Member UncommonPosts: 110
    Originally posted by Livnthedream
    Originally posted by Genadi

    Hard content demands that you group together and form thos social aspects.  Easy content allows you to be anti-social and play by yourself.

     

    That is such a ridiculous statement and so incorrect in so many ways. If you don't see how it's not my place to explain, I would only suggest play some more mmorpg's and do your homework before you post such dribble.

    What? Teamwork=socialization. Last I checked easy content does not promote it, and infact is often worse off with teamwork, for a variety of reasons.

     

    What on Earth are you talking about? Who said anything about easy content except for you lol? Like many before you, you have created an argument that wasn't there and isn't really up for debate to fit your narrative. Last few posts are a perfect example of why it's near impossible to have a normal discussion with players like yourself.

     

    I don't want easy content or hard content, I want the tools so the playerbase can create an end game. Like a true sandbox you know?

  • GenadiGenadi Member UncommonPosts: 110
    Originally posted by morbidlymystic

    EDIT:  Its slightly better now that you can't ninja gear, but still nothing remotely close to a health social environment.

     

    Ugh! Again another example of how far off we are regards to this discussion. It seems like many others you believe the importance of gear that has .02 better stam than another is a vital part of an mmorpg... I repeat, quite sad what's happened to the genre.

  • GenadiGenadi Member UncommonPosts: 110
    Originally posted by morbidlymystic
    Originally posted by Genadi
    Originally posted by Livnthedream
    Originally posted by Genadi

    Hard content demands that you group together and form thos social aspects.  Easy content allows you to be anti-social and play by yourself.

     

    That is such a ridiculous statement and so incorrect in so many ways. If you don't see how it's not my place to explain, I would only suggest play some more mmorpg's and do your homework before you post such dribble.

    What? Teamwork=socialization. Last I checked easy content does not promote it, and infact is often worse off with teamwork, for a variety of reasons.

     

    What on Earth are you talking about? Who said anything about easy content except for you lol? Like many before you, you have created an argument that wasn't there and isn't really up for debate to fit your narrative. Last few posts are a perfect example of why it's near impossible to have a normal discussion with players like yourself.

     

    I don't want easy content or hard content, I want the tools so the playerbase can create an end game. Like a true sandbox you know?

    Where did you learn your debate skills?  Faux Noise?

     

    Thanks for addressing the false argument you created to fit your fanboi narrative. You've helped prove my point :)

  • GenadiGenadi Member UncommonPosts: 110
    Originally posted by morbidlymystic     What you want is a failure of a game.  It will skyrocket and plummet just like every other trash f2p mmo out there if they rely on the playerbase to create their own endgame.

     

    Nice ninja edit to prevent your troll warning from mods.

     

    Your statement is untrue, in every single way untrue. Unless you have mind reading and future seeing abilities.

     

    See how the discussion derails into stupidity when you start creating things to fit a narrative.

     

    EDIT - You argue like Bill O'Reilly.

  • GenadiGenadi Member UncommonPosts: 110
    Originally posted by morbidlymystic
    What fanboy narrative troll?  I never even played ES, lol.

    Wow.... says it all ^^^^^^

     

    Thank you again for further proving my point with that statement.

  • Caliburn101Caliburn101 Member Posts: 636

    I have hardcore raided and played games without it.

    The thing I don't like about raids is the leetism and the fact thet they can be set up to effectively allow only a small % of the playerbase to do them.

    The guild-focus and sense of acheivement from challenging raids is a good game element though - one subsequently usually ruined by the need to grind farm-status bosses, but fun whilst you are learning the ropes.

    I think raids have a place and should be put in with the following caveats;

    1. The gear they give is the best in game - but is matched by solo, small group and craftable routes

    2. Gear and other rewards come in a medium term timeframe so as not to require endless farming

    I mean why not have the way in which raiding works change to get rid of the bad and keep most of the good?

    It really shouldn't be about either/or...

  • LivnthedreamLivnthedream Member Posts: 555
    Originally posted by Genadi
    Originally posted by Livnthedream
    Originally posted by Genadi

    Hard content demands that you group together and form thos social aspects.  Easy content allows you to be anti-social and play by yourself.

     

    That is such a ridiculous statement and so incorrect in so many ways. If you don't see how it's not my place to explain, I would only suggest play some more mmorpg's and do your homework before you post such dribble.

    What? Teamwork=socialization. Last I checked easy content does not promote it, and infact is often worse off with teamwork, for a variety of reasons.

     

    What on Earth are you talking about? Who said anything about easy content except for you lol? Like many before you, you have created an argument that wasn't there and isn't really up for debate to fit your narrative. Last few posts are a perfect example of why it's near impossible to have a normal discussion with players like yourself.

     

    I don't want easy content or hard content, I want the tools so the playerbase can create an end game. Like a true sandbox you know?

    Any reasonable content that is soloable is by its very nature easier than content that you have to work with others to achieve, for a variety of reasons. Interdependency is at the crux of a good community, and a good playerbase. Also, the game is not a sandbox, in any sense of the word.

    http://chroniclesofthenerds.com/nerdfight/

    Y U NO FLIP TABLE?!?!?!

  • GenadiGenadi Member UncommonPosts: 110
    Originally posted by morbidlymystic 

    So wait.  First its bad if your an ES fanboy, and then its bad if you aren't?!

     

    lol, no one can be this dense.  So I am done with your trolling.

     

    Wow, reading comprehension fail +99. Where do you create this stuff??? When did I say you were an ES fanboi? Re-read the thread you're so vehemently posting in and try to grasp it all.

     

    You've failed to address any of the points I called you out on and proved you were speaking nonsense. Now you're calling me dense and accuse me of trolling.... again thank you for further proving my point.

  • LivnthedreamLivnthedream Member Posts: 555
    Originally posted by Caliburn101

    I have hardcore raided and played games without it.

    The thing I don't like about raids is the leetism and the fact thet they can be set up to effectively allow only a small % of the playerbase to do them.

    The guild-focus and sense of acheivement from challenging raids is a good game element though - one subsequently usually ruined by the need to grind farm-status bosses, but fun whilst you are learning the ropes.

    I think raids have a place and should be put in with the following caveats;

    1. The gear they give is the best in game - but is matched by solo, small group and craftable routes

    2. Gear and other rewards come in a medium term timeframe so as not to require endless farming

    I mean why not have the way in which raiding works change to get rid of the bad and keep most of the good?

    It really shouldn't be about either/or...

    As soon as you reward solo play the same as group play you disencentize the group play. If i can get something solo then its the much easier route than having to deal with others to get it.

    Define "medium term" since how long things take are often subjective. Many players often consider things too long, even though developers generally have the metrics to say otherwise.

    http://chroniclesofthenerds.com/nerdfight/

    Y U NO FLIP TABLE?!?!?!

  • GenadiGenadi Member UncommonPosts: 110
    Originally posted by Livnthedream

    Any reasonable content that is soloable is by its very nature easier than content that you have to work with others to achieve, for a variety of reasons. Interdependency is at the crux of a good community, and a good playerbase. Also, the game is not a sandbox, in any sense of the word.


    You guys really are too much.


    When did the discussion have anything to do with solo or group content? When did I ever mention anything of the kind?


    I know it's a not a sandbox dude, trust me I know. Thanks to players like morbidlymystic it couldn't ever be.

  • GenadiGenadi Member UncommonPosts: 110

    TES mmorpg should be sandbox.

     

    TES end game shouldn't be raids.

     

    TES end game shouldn't revolve around gear like 95% of the other theme park mmo's

     

    TES end game should revolve around...  Open PVP, Guild PVP, Territory Control, Emperor Elections, Politics... the list goes on but what isn't on that list is instanced raids providing the barbie doll mentality of 'I gotz to havez that new gearz!!!' that has failed every mmorpg since WoW besides WoW.

  • GenadiGenadi Member UncommonPosts: 110
    Originally posted by morbidlymystic  Simple, no one is talking to you troll.  You don't get to dictate the whole discussion.  ;p

     

    You quoted a post I wrote replying to another member to say that ^^^ Thank you for again further proving my point :)

     

     

    Edit - I've added all I can to this discussion, with the added bonus of having the typical player I was referring to in my first post come in and show us exactly what I said of them is true. Goodnight!

  • LivnthedreamLivnthedream Member Posts: 555
    Originally posted by Genadi
    Originally posted by Livnthedream

    Any reasonable content that is soloable is by its very nature easier than content that you have to work with others to achieve, for a variety of reasons. Interdependency is at the crux of a good community, and a good playerbase. Also, the game is not a sandbox, in any sense of the word.


    You guys really are too much.


    When did the discussion have anything to do with solo or group content? When did I ever mention anything of the kind?


    I know it's a not a sandbox dude, trust me I know. Thanks to players like morbidlymystic it couldn't ever be.

    Have you even looked at the title or read the op of the thread you are posting in?

    Originally posted by Genadi

    TES mmorpg should be sandbox.

     

    TES end game shouldn't be raids.

     

    TES end game shouldn't revolve around gear like 95% of the other theme park mmo's

     

    TES end game should revolve around...  Open PVP, Guild PVP, Territory Control, Emperor Elections, Politics... the list goes on but what isn't on that list is instanced raids providing the barbie doll mentality of 'I gotz to havez that new gearz!!!' that has failed every mmorpg since WoW besides WoW.

    Guess what, sacrifices need to be made to make your mediocre single player experience into a decent multiplayer game. Deal with it.

    Originally posted by morbidlymystic

    Except if the rates of acquiring gear is different.  Just because you can get equal gear, doesn't mean it will take the same amount of time.

    That is the only feasible way it COULD work.

    Not really. Look at the complaining you get with that very system in Rift. You will still get all of the same bs about the developers catering to the "elitist" raiders who refuse to carry them through stuff.

    http://chroniclesofthenerds.com/nerdfight/

    Y U NO FLIP TABLE?!?!?!

  • GenadiGenadi Member UncommonPosts: 110
    Originally posted by Genadi

    what isn't on that list is instanced raids providing the barbie doll mentality of 'I gotz to havez that new gearz!!!' that has failed every mmorpg since WoW besides WoW.

     

     

     

     

    Originally posted by morbidlymystic

    I copied this from another thread, but I think it illustrates my point.

     

    Originally posted by hMJem

    Again, it all depends on what Zenimax needs to have and wants to have subscriber number wise. If 30,000 subs is sustainable, then they can do without raids. If they want something like 2-3 million concurrent active subscribers, I dont see that happening in the current format

     

     If they want a medicore game that goes F2P, or starts off that way, then they don't need end game pve progression content. 

    If they wan't millions of active subs paying $13 a month then they need that progression and continual updates.

     

    Personally, I am hoping for millions of active subs to fuel content.

     

     

     

    It's like talking to an unpainted door -.-

     

     

     

  • GenadiGenadi Member UncommonPosts: 110
    Originally posted by Livnthedream

    Guess what, sacrifices need to be made to make your mediocre single player experience into a decent multiplayer game. Deal with it.

     

    I guess this is where opnion comes into it, I can't disagree or argue with you on that. If you think the TES series is a mediocre single player experience I can see why the discussion took the turn it did.... makes much more sense now.

This discussion has been closed.