There are no raids... can you live with that?

azarhal

Originally posted by morbidlymystic

Originally posted by azarhal

Originally posted by morbidlymystic

The game will rise and fall like SWTOR unless there is a real end game available.  The game has no chance without some real end game content like raids.   If you want a mediocre game like Eve, over the next gen BIG MMO, then there isn't much to say.  Its just sad.

SWTOR had raiding at release, I don't think you comparison is working here.

Anyone who actually played it will tell you it was bad.

The ops were too buggy and not challenging when the game was first released. In fact the hardest part about Soa was often just dealing with the bugs.

End game crafting was completely nonexistent.  There was one viable profession, biochem, and after you made your reusable consumables you were done. 

The game was really just too much of a ripoff of WoW as well.  

What you said in your first post is that ESO will fall without endgame like SWTOR did.  Bugs were SWTOR issue, not the fact that it didn't have endgame. Hence bad comparison. I'm just being picky.

Genadi

Originally posted by Nanfoodle

Originally posted by GreenHell
I didn't vote because I'd really have to see how enjoyable the rest of the game is. I just think it's odd that they wouldn't include raids of any sort. I like options and limiting those options in this day and age seems kind of foolish. They are basically alienating a large portion of the MMO demographic that could be potential revenue for them. Doesn't make much sense .

This is one of the reasons I voted no. To me this seems like a big mistake to chuck out whats been a major part of MMOing for the past 15 years. I really hope they change their minds on this and not as an after thought with a bunch of 1/2 done raids that are not tripple A quality. You know there will be a bunch of hard core MMOers who will rip the content apart and get to end game and say "There is nothing to do" and quit. A lot of MMOers live for end game content and I have no clue how this game will float with no raids. Maybe as well as GW2?

 

Hopefully the game won't attract those players. It's the 'Feedz me more content' scrubs that have ruined nearly every mmo I've enjoyed over the past 15 years. I haven't much hope for the game now anyways but if there are no raids it's a step in the right direction to creating something like a TES game which IMO must have a sandbox feel.

nerovipus32

Having endgame rading will just make the vocal minority rush to end game and then start complaining that there isn't enough content once they have done the raids. This happens with every mmo that has raiding..it's rush rush rush.

danwest58

Originally posted by morbidlymystic

Originally posted by azarhal

Originally posted by morbidlymystic

The game will rise and fall like SWTOR unless there is a real end game available.  The game has no chance without some real end game content like raids.   If you want a mediocre game like Eve, over the next gen BIG MMO, then there isn't much to say.  Its just sad.

SWTOR had raiding at release, I don't think you comparison is working here.

Anyone who actually played it will tell you it was bad.  Bad is the equivalent of it not existing.

 

The ops were too buggy and not challenging when the game was first released. In fact the hardest part about Soa was often just dealing with the bugs.

 

End game crafting was completely nonexistent.  There was one viable profession, biochem, and after you made your reusable consumables you were done. 

 

The game was really just too much of a ripoff of WoW as well.  

I will agree with you that the hardest part of SWTOR raids were the bugs.  That does not mean the game is bad.  It’s just built for casual gamer vs someone who wants to have hard progression.  You really are relying on personal opinion when it comes to what is a Bad game.  To me right now SWTOR is the game for me.  Why?  Because the raids are easy, I can spend the time with a handful of friends instead of needing a dozen or more people to raid.   MMOs right now at my point in life (working full time, having kids, and working on a BS Degree in CIS; working towards going for an MBA) are on the back burner.  This is why I don’t play WoW or Rift anymore, because they take too much time to get to end game raiding and require more time than I am willing to give.  SWTOR works well for me because I can cobble together a half ass set of gear and start raiding story modes.  Then work from Story to Hard and Hard to Nightmare, without spending more than 3 hours a week raiding and another 2 to 3 just doing other things.  I feel like I did something and I don’t need to spend the same effort in SWTOR as I did in Vanilla WoW raiding. 

So keep saying how BAD SWTOR is.  It’s not Bad, its setup for a Casual MMO player like myself that rates Real Life and Real Achievements over a digital achievement. 

O and what you do not see that I do is this.  (MMO DATABASE) TBL_User_Account_Info

Columns

Account, CharacterName, Credits, Gear

EpicMMOGamer, SHIZKILLER, 9999999, ALL EPICS

^^^^ That’s all an MMO is, is information like this in a Database somewhere, you didn’t achieve anything tangible.   

nerovipus32

Originally posted by morbidlymystic

Originally posted by Genadi

Originally posted by Nanfoodle

Originally posted by GreenHell
I didn't vote because I'd really have to see how enjoyable the rest of the game is. I just think it's odd that they wouldn't include raids of any sort. I like options and limiting those options in this day and age seems kind of foolish. They are basically alienating a large portion of the MMO demographic that could be potential revenue for them. Doesn't make much sense .

This is one of the reasons I voted no. To me this seems like a big mistake to chuck out whats been a major part of MMOing for the past 15 years. I really hope they change their minds on this and not as an after thought with a bunch of 1/2 done raids that are not tripple A quality. You know there will be a bunch of hard core MMOers who will rip the content apart and get to end game and say "There is nothing to do" and quit. A lot of MMOers live for end game content and I have no clue how this game will float with no raids. Maybe as well as GW2?

 

Hopefully the game won't attract those players. It's the 'Feedz me more content' scrubs that have ruined nearly every mmo I've enjoyed over the past 15 years. I haven't much hope for the game now anyways but if there are no raids it's a step in the right direction to creating something like a TES game which IMO must have a sandbox feel.

 

You mean like WOW?  Seeing as its by far the best MMO to date, and its earnings absolutely DWARFS anything else out there that is a pretty bold statement. 

 

Pandering to hardcore entitled casuals that wan't items without effort is what ruins new MMOs.

Raiding doesn't require effort to acquire items, it's down to time and luck. I'd rather get items from a challenging encounter than to have to do the same content over and over and over again in the hope that a shiny drops.

Waiden

Originally posted by Genadi

Hopefully the game won't attract those players. It's the 'Feedz me more content' scrubs that have ruined nearly every mmo I've enjoyed over the past 15 years. I haven't much hope for the game now anyways but if there are no raids it's a step in the right direction to creating something like a TES game which IMO must have a sandbox feel.

In case you didnt notice... themepark mmorpgs are about 'Feedz me more content'. Doesnt matter if they have raids or dont ... So if themepark mmo dont impelement raids there must be something else that replace it, because crafting, or doing quests, story, exploring wont make pve players play the game for years .. I hope dungeons and those big 50+ player battles will be damn awesome and not lame gw2 dynamic event copy, which are the most useless events ever made in mmorpgs. They were fun while leveling, not as end/elder game content ..

 

themepark mmorpgs needs as much end/elder game features and content as possible. You would not like to live in real life if everything you could do is swim, going to park or chew the gum right .. you need choices and things to doo

 

 

nerovipus32

Originally posted by Dogblaster

Originally posted by Genadi

Hopefully the game won't attract those players. It's the 'Feedz me more content' scrubs that have ruined nearly every mmo I've enjoyed over the past 15 years. I haven't much hope for the game now anyways but if there are no raids it's a step in the right direction to creating something like a TES game which IMO must have a sandbox feel.

In case you didnt notice... themepark mmorpgs are about 'Feedz me more content'. Doesnt matter if they have raids or dont ... So if themepark mmo dont impelement raids there must be something else that replace it, because crafting, or doing quests, story, exploring wont make players play the game for years ..

The focus of this game is RVR, whereas in games like wow  the focus is on raiding.

Waiden

Originally posted by nerovipus32

Originally posted by Dogblaster

Originally posted by Genadi

Hopefully the game won't attract those players. It's the 'Feedz me more content' scrubs that have ruined nearly every mmo I've enjoyed over the past 15 years. I haven't much hope for the game now anyways but if there are no raids it's a step in the right direction to creating something like a TES game which IMO must have a sandbox feel.

In case you didnt notice... themepark mmorpgs are about 'Feedz me more content'. Doesnt matter if they have raids or dont ... So if themepark mmo dont impelement raids there must be something else that replace it, because crafting, or doing quests, story, exploring wont make players play the game for years ..

The focus of this game is RVR, whereas in games like wow  the focus is on raiding.

Oh okey. So goodbye majority of pve players after few months? Nothing against it, just sounds weird when es was always about pve and now es mmo focus is RVR.. I thought PvE would be also very rich, I was wrong then ..

 

nerovipus32

Originally posted by Dogblaster

Originally posted by nerovipus32

Originally posted by Dogblaster

Originally posted by Genadi

Hopefully the game won't attract those players. It's the 'Feedz me more content' scrubs that have ruined nearly every mmo I've enjoyed over the past 15 years. I haven't much hope for the game now anyways but if there are no raids it's a step in the right direction to creating something like a TES game which IMO must have a sandbox feel.

In case you didnt notice... themepark mmorpgs are about 'Feedz me more content'. Doesnt matter if they have raids or dont ... So if themepark mmo dont impelement raids there must be something else that replace it, because crafting, or doing quests, story, exploring wont make players play the game for years ..

The focus of this game is RVR, whereas in games like wow  the focus is on raiding.

Oh okey. Bye bye majority of pve players after few months Nothing against it, just sounds weird when es was always about pve and now mmorpg is mainly pvp ..

 

Well of course it was about pve, it was a single player game. Theres no point developing raid content when all the raiders will just go back to wow after a month or two anyway.  WOW does raiding better than anyone else and trying to compete with them on that level will only make the game fail. Elder Scrolls didn't have any raiding either btw

Waiden

Originally posted by nerovipus32

Well of course it was about pve, it was a single player game. Theres no point developing raid content when all the raiders will just go back to wow after a month or two anyway.  WOW does raiding better than anyone else and trying to compete with them on that level will only make the game fail. Elder Scrolls didn't have any raiding either btw

I am just saying its -1 elder game feature thats all. I dont care about raiding tbh, dungeons are damn enought for me if created well but after playing gw2 I dont want to end up playing game where I end up creating alt every month because there is nothing else to do in pve .. Because I wont stay with game like this again xD

nerovipus32

Originally posted by Dogblaster

Originally posted by nerovipus32

Well of course it was about pve, it was a single player game. Theres no point developing raid content when all the raiders will just go back to wow after a month or two anyway.  WOW does raiding better than anyone else and trying to compete with them on that level will only make the game fail. Elder Scrolls didn't have any raiding either btw

I am just saying its -1 elder game feature thats all. I dont care about raiding tbh, dungeons are damn enought for me if created well but after playing gw2 I dont want to end up playing game where I end up creating alt every month because there is nothing else to do in pve .. Because I wont stay with game like this again xD

The game will have 16 dungeons at release.

Waiden

Originally posted by nerovipus32

The game will have 16 dungeons at release.

awesome now lets hope they will be challenging, fun and actually worth doing !

 

+ BIG Hope they wont be beatable in one or two days all of them. Numbers means nothing if they are doable in half an hour each

But why to speculate here right, game wont be relesed till 4Q/2013 and untill then there will be ARR/AA/WildStar etc. games to go play if it fails so lets just see

nerovipus32

Originally posted by morbidlymystic

Originally posted by nerovipus32

Well of course it was about pve, it was a single player game. Theres no point developing raid content when all the raiders will just go back to wow after a month or two anyway.  WOW does raiding better than anyone else and trying to compete with them on that level will only make the game fail. Elder Scrolls didn't have any raiding either btw

 

Seriously?!?  Skyrim didn't have single player raids... How enlightening!

 

Way to miss the point, and use a bad joke dude.  The point is the game is going to flop without some sort of REAL endgame, aka raiding. 

 

Here is an interesting story.  Back in 2004 everyone said EQ2 would dominate WoW.   The exact opposite occured. 

 

With well executed raid feature TESO could tople WoW, or at least compete and maintain a subscription base.  Otherwise, its doomed to be just another F2P pile of crap that can at best keep you entertained for a couple months.

TESO won't topple wow and to even think it will is foolish. Raiding is the only real end game in your opinion, not everyone wants a game focused around that. Any game that has raiding never developes content in other areas, it's raid or die. TESO is about rvr hence why the races are split into 3 factions. Trying to be a jack of all trades will end up making the game master in none.

rygard49

Originally posted by Dogblaster

Originally posted by nerovipus32

Originally posted by Dogblaster

Originally posted by Genadi

Hopefully the game won't attract those players. It's the 'Feedz me more content' scrubs that have ruined nearly every mmo I've enjoyed over the past 15 years. I haven't much hope for the game now anyways but if there are no raids it's a step in the right direction to creating something like a TES game which IMO must have a sandbox feel.

In case you didnt notice... themepark mmorpgs are about 'Feedz me more content'. Doesnt matter if they have raids or dont ... So if themepark mmo dont impelement raids there must be something else that replace it, because crafting, or doing quests, story, exploring wont make players play the game for years ..

The focus of this game is RVR, whereas in games like wow  the focus is on raiding.

Oh okey. So goodbye majority of pve players after few months? Nothing against it, just sounds weird when es was always about pve and now es mmo focus is RVR.. I thought PvE would be also very rich, I was wrong then ..

You said it yourself... Crafting, doing quests, story and exploring doesn't keep players playing for years. What does? Repeatable content with increasing rewards, i.e. PvP, or progression PvE (also house management, but I think only a small percentage would find that worthy of years of their time).

PvE progression doesn't have to be pigeon holed into just raiding. Small group dungeons, the 50+ and 50++ zones, and the adventure zones will all have that progression. Not only that, but it has been said that there are raid style encounters within the adventure zones for large groups to battle and be rewarded from. The idea is that you can go in with a small group and complete much of the content, but if you can get the manpower you can trigger those bigger bosses to spawn and get better rewards.

nerovipus32

Originally posted by morbidlymystic

Originally posted by nerovipus32

TESO won't topple wow and to even think it will is foolish. Raiding is the only real end game in your opinion, not everyone wants a game focused around that. Any game that has raiding never developes content in other areas, it's raid or die. TESO is about rvr hence why the races are split into 3 factions. Trying to be a jack of all trades will end up making the game master in none.

10 million subs for years says you are wrong....

Says i'm wrong about what?

ragz45

Love people that spout these stastistics about only 5% of mmo players actually raiding like they are truth.  I would like to see the scientific study behind these numbers.  The only time I've ever seen bliz post numbers about raiding, was when they said only 2% of the pop saw AQ40 & Sunwell.  That had nothing to do with what % of population actually raided.  But how difficult the raids were to gear up to and complete.

There isn't any scientific proof of what % of mmo population actually enjoys raiding.

Waiden

Originally posted by rygard49

You said it yourself... Crafting, doing quests, story and exploring doesn't keep players playing for years. What does? Repeatable content with increasing rewards, i.e. PvP, or progression PvE (also house management, but I think only a small percentage would find that worthy of years of their time).

PvE progression doesn't have to be pigeon holed into just raiding. Small group dungeons, the 50+ and 50++ zones, and the adventure zones will all have that progression. Not only that, but it has been said that there are raid style encounters within the adventure zones for large groups to battle and be rewarded from. The idea is that you can go in with a small group and complete much of the content, but if you can get the manpower you can trigger those bigger bosses to spawn and get better rewards.

I said previously that if you dont have raids you have to have other featuers, etc. you showed me there are other features planed and thats enought I never said raiding is the only endgame pve stuff just to be clear !

 

Now I hope it will be fun maaan... and released today ^^

nerovipus32

Originally posted by morbidlymystic

Originally posted by nerovipus32

Says i'm wrong about what?

Originally posted by nerovipus32

TESO won't topple wow and to even think it will is foolish. Raiding is the only real end game in your opinion, not everyone wants a game focused around that. Any game that has raiding never developes content in other areas, it's raid or die. TESO is about rvr hence why the races are split into 3 factions. Trying to be a jack of all trades will end up making the game master in none.

Millions of paying subs for nearly a decade says you are wrong....

Blizzard has grossed well over 12 billion dollars from WoW subs alone.   Thats not even including box sales or item store sales.

 

There is no reason it couldn't topple WoW, IF they do it right.  It would be a huge feat, but its certainly doable.   WoW is obviously not going to be on top forever!  However, just being 2nd and actually maintaining P2P for years would be sufficient. 

 

Unless Adventure zone is akin to Raiding then TESO is going to rise and crash, and it won't be a real MMO and it won't be worth spending years of time on.

Yes and how many devs have copied the wow formula and failed? So because TESO doesn't meet your expectations it's going to fail? The game will have no raids at launch. It's an RVR focused game,  either accept that fact or find a game that has the features you like.

nerovipus32

Originally posted by morbidlymystic

Originally posted by nerovipus32

Yes and how many devs have copied the wow formula and failed? So because TESO doesn't meet your expectations it's going to fail? The game will have no raids at launch. It's an RVR focused game,  either accept that fact or find a game that has the features you like.

 

Thats just it, they made a poor imitation of WoW and failed.  Why would you want to pay them $15 a month for a cheap knockoff?  TESO isn't a cheap knockoff, and that is why it has a chance to be something more than a cheap F2P pile of shit like all the other mmos out right now.

 

Yes, if it doesn't meet the end game expectations of the playerbase it will fail.  In this case when I say fail it won't be a truly great MMO for years and years to come.  It might make money, but thats the game companies idea of success, not the players. 

But it does have end game, It's called RVR.

nerovipus32

Originally posted by morbidlymystic
Pretty much every MMO has PvP, yet they are all F2P.

Pretty much every mmo has raids too.

immodium

Originally posted by morbidlymystic
Pretty much every MMO has PvP, yet they are all F2P.

Which I find strange. People are willing to pay a monthly fee for generic, predictible PvE content?

Panzerbase

So basically this is PS2 set in a limited TESO world? No thanks, you can bang the drums all you like but PVP is a sideshow in the MMO industry, propped up by the PVE base.  People think a bit too highly of themselves, sorry but expecting special consideration for said sideshow is asinine. The PVP crowd tends to be your non paying FTP hype machine, and this is what kills a game faster than anything else. I see another minor game on the horizon that will peak and sputter just like all the rest, never knowing all they had to do was go the extra mile and try harder. 

nerovipus32

Originally posted by Panzerbase
So basically this is PS2 set in a limited TESO world? No thanks, you can bang the drums all you like but PVP is a sideshow in the MMO industry, propped up by the PVE base. I think people think a bit too highly of themselves, you're not so important that they need to cater the game  to you, the PVP based crowd at the expense of everyone else. I see another minor game on the horizon that will peak and sputter just like all the rest, never knowing all they had to do was go the extra mile and try harder. 

No, the game has pve content it just doesn't have raids. I'm not saying they are catering the game to pvp crowd, i'm saying the devs are creating an RVR game with pve content, i didn't make the game i'm only going on what the devs have said.

nerovipus32

Originally posted by morbidlymystic

Originally posted by nerovipus32

Originally posted by morbidlymystic
Pretty much every MMO has PvP, yet they are all F2P.

Pretty much every mmo has raids too.

Except they pale in comparison to WoWs.  There is always some major flaws in the game.

 

WoW wouldn't be anywhere enar where it is now without Raiding.  There is just no way to make questing, farming, and PvP compelling for the majority of the MMO playerbase for years.  Its just not possible. 

Likes i said wow does raiding better than anyone else, theres no point trying to compete with them when it comes to raiding. You can try but you'll fail like all the others in the past.

pantaro

Originally posted by kabitoshin
This game to me seems like its main focus will be the PvP.

and thats why I love elder scrolls but this game is very VERY low on my radar!