There are no raids... can you live with that?

Iselin

Originally posted by Nanfoodle

Originally posted by Iselin

Originally posted by hMJem

I remember WOTLK heroics. You could fall asleep, try to pull the whole dungeon at once, fall asleep, and still end up not dying. You realize that was the biggest critisim of WOTLK right -- It isnt that "everyone has access to it" People that think "end-gamers" or "raiders" dont want people to do content is just completely false. They want it to atleast be challenging. See, playing Halo might be fun sometimes, but its not fun if youre going 50 kills 0 deaths every game because by nature we want a challenge -- And I struggle to believe dungeons in this game will be challenging if crafting is what gives the best game in the gear and if there is or is not a trinity tank-heal-dps.

 I think people are misunderstanding that.

What they have said that has aroused my curiosity is that crafting will enhance the loot you find. It sounds like you will get great loot however you get it and then, you can make it better through crafting.

That is a very different concept than having crafted stuff competing with dropped loot.

The crafting video did say some slots would have best in slot for crafting. They didnt say that would be the case for all slots.

 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ed2VZXMJo8Y

5:15ish of the video is the part I'm talking about that has me excited. It talks about enchanters and weaponsmiths improving a found weapon...or not. It can also be "deconstructed" to learn its properties and get reagents.

My main in WOW is a max-level enchanter and I can improve most slots, but it's realtively limited. It sounds to me like they're expanding that concept here.

Nanfoodle

Originally posted by Iselin

Originally posted by Nanfoodle

Originally posted by Iselin

Originally posted by hMJem

I remember WOTLK heroics. You could fall asleep, try to pull the whole dungeon at once, fall asleep, and still end up not dying. You realize that was the biggest critisim of WOTLK right -- It isnt that "everyone has access to it" People that think "end-gamers" or "raiders" dont want people to do content is just completely false. They want it to atleast be challenging. See, playing Halo might be fun sometimes, but its not fun if youre going 50 kills 0 deaths every game because by nature we want a challenge -- And I struggle to believe dungeons in this game will be challenging if crafting is what gives the best game in the gear and if there is or is not a trinity tank-heal-dps.

 I think people are misunderstanding that.

What they have said that has aroused my curiosity is that crafting will enhance the loot you find. It sounds like you will get great loot however you get it and then, you can make it better through crafting.

That is a very different concept than having crafted stuff competing with dropped loot.

The crafting video did say some slots would have best in slot for crafting. They didnt say that would be the case for all slots.

 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ed2VZXMJo8Y

5:15ish of the video is the part I'm talking about that has me excited. It talks about enchanters and weaponsmiths improving a found weapon...or not. It can also be "deconstructed" to learn its properties and get reagents.

My main in WOW is a max-level enchanter and I can improve most slots, but it's realtively limited. It sounds to me like they're expanding that concept here.

Ya its about time crafters got their due =-) That video by far is my fav to come out. 

Nanfoodle

Originally posted by hMJem

Originally posted by severius

Originally posted by Nanfoodle

So can you live with a MMO that has no raids? Or will that make ESO a pit stop for you before you run off to a new MMO that you and your guildies can really enjoy?

Info comes from HERE!!!! : There are no raids, after all – "That's not Elder Scrolls," says Game Director Matt Firor – but there are four-man dungeons and three-faction open PvP with sieges in the beleaguered province of Cyrodiil.

POSTED BY, Livnthedream: Link to more info on this topic HERE!!!!

Personally I can care less about raids.

 I used to raid, A LOT.  Spent my time in top tiered raiding guilds.  Was the first person on Tichondrius PVP with Tranq Shot (in vanilla you actually had to earn it through a raid, not a freebie for every jackwagon huntard).  Then they put out an expansion pack.  Adding new raids and every piece of gear I had was suddenly worthless.

Eff the game companies that think its a good idea.  Well, it is a good idea, because you have plenty of mules who want that carrot regardless of how big a pole you use which of course allows you to maximize your profits with the least amount of effort. For that matter Eff the raiders who enjoy the gear grind which allows these developers to slack off.

 I want more from my games, learning the pattern was cool the first couple times.... but having to do it weekly for everyone in the guild, plus yourself, over and over and over again to make sure that everyone gets geared?  F#ck that.  I remember a stretch back with Blackwing for 6 months we ran that piece of sh!t weekly and there was one item that NEVER dropped.  NEVER. Can't remember what it was but I do remember we got the parts for the idiot Thunderfury and still never got the huntard drop.

Fact is I thought boss fights sucked in the 80's at the arcade, on the atari and it is a HUGE reason why I hated the Nintendo, every japanese p.o.s. game has the moron boss fight mechanic, from the very first to the most recent.  People talk so much about innovation, yet they constantly give the japanese a pass for using the same mechanic in every single game for 30 years,

So whats the difference between grinding crafting recipes for the best gear in the game? Or spamming the same World Boss that is likely a tank and spank?

 

Come on, you dont actually think Maria whatever her name is has made AI so good it can beat humans do you? AI in all MMORPGs can be exploited.  I dont forsee any complex AI as advertised happening either. They, too, will have a pattern. Ok if I'm ranged do this, if I'm melee do this. It'll be that simple. Why? Because Elder Scrolls is a simple game.

 

And no, Paul Sage already says crafting gives you the best gear in the game, but they still want dungeons to drop "good gear" He said if youre a crafter, dungeons are even better, because a crafter can make the gear in dungeons EVEN BETTER. He talked like you can de-compose an item and learn how to make it. Oh, so I get an item, de-compose it, then I can make it whenever I want now if I have the mats? Talk about OP..

They have not said what gear system they will be using. Everything I have seen so far reminds me of DAoC and a non-gear system. Where you dont play to earn a new set of gear every 6 months to kill bigger mobs to get better loot kinda of treadmill. There is no PvP gear as well. I think it will be more like GW2, a gear plateau so to speak. If they add raiding or if their is raiding my guess players like you wont like what they add.

Arthasm

My friends quit GW2 because lack of raids (only few of us still playing), now they losing interest in this game, too...

severius

Originally posted by hMJem

Originally posted by severius

Originally posted by Nanfoodle

So can you live with a MMO that has no raids? Or will that make ESO a pit stop for you before you run off to a new MMO that you and your guildies can really enjoy?

Info comes from HERE!!!! : There are no raids, after all – "That's not Elder Scrolls," says Game Director Matt Firor – but there are four-man dungeons and three-faction open PvP with sieges in the beleaguered province of Cyrodiil.

POSTED BY, Livnthedream: Link to more info on this topic HERE!!!!

Personally I can care less about raids.

 I used to raid, A LOT.  Spent my time in top tiered raiding guilds.  Was the first person on Tichondrius PVP with Tranq Shot (in vanilla you actually had to earn it through a raid, not a freebie for every jackwagon huntard).  Then they put out an expansion pack.  Adding new raids and every piece of gear I had was suddenly worthless.

Eff the game companies that think its a good idea.  Well, it is a good idea, because you have plenty of mules who want that carrot regardless of how big a pole you use which of course allows you to maximize your profits with the least amount of effort. For that matter Eff the raiders who enjoy the gear grind which allows these developers to slack off.

 I want more from my games, learning the pattern was cool the first couple times.... but having to do it weekly for everyone in the guild, plus yourself, over and over and over again to make sure that everyone gets geared?  F#ck that.  I remember a stretch back with Blackwing for 6 months we ran that piece of sh!t weekly and there was one item that NEVER dropped.  NEVER. Can't remember what it was but I do remember we got the parts for the idiot Thunderfury and still never got the huntard drop.

Fact is I thought boss fights sucked in the 80's at the arcade, on the atari and it is a HUGE reason why I hated the Nintendo, every japanese p.o.s. game has the moron boss fight mechanic, from the very first to the most recent.  People talk so much about innovation, yet they constantly give the japanese a pass for using the same mechanic in every single game for 30 years,

So whats the difference between grinding crafting recipes for the best gear in the game? Or spamming the same World Boss that is likely a tank and spank?

 

Come on, you dont actually think Maria whatever her name is has made AI so good it can beat humans do you? AI in all MMORPGs can be exploited.  I dont forsee any complex AI as advertised happening either. They, too, will have a pattern. Ok if I'm ranged do this, if I'm melee do this. It'll be that simple. Why? Because Elder Scrolls is a simple game.

 

And no, Paul Sage already says crafting gives you the best gear in the game, but they still want dungeons to drop "good gear" He said if youre a crafter, dungeons are even better, because a crafter can make the gear in dungeons EVEN BETTER. He talked like you can de-compose an item and learn how to make it. Oh, so I get an item, de-compose it, then I can make it whenever I want now if I have the mats? Talk about OP..

There is no difference.  A grind is a grind which, in devtard speak, is a timesink.  The longer they can keep you playing the better their chances of squeezing a nickel out of you.

baphamet

---

Originally posted by Arthasm
My friends quit GW2 because lack of raids (only few of us still playing), now they losing interest in this game, too...

---

there is no incentive to do GW2 endgame at all (last time i played at least) except to make your character look better.

i honestly don't see the issue as long as they make the "heroic dungeons" or whatever they will be called in TESO, extremely hard or have tiers of difficulty.

that said, i will say that this doesn't seem to be the game suited for larger guilds and wouldn't blame large already formed guilds for passing this one by.

race lock + no large group PVE content = not good for them.

then again, we will just have to wait and see how it actually turns out.

hMJem

Originally posted by baphamet

 

---

Originally posted by Arthasm
My friends quit GW2 because lack of raids (only few of us still playing), now they losing interest in this game, too...

---

 

there is no incentive to do GW2 endgame at all (last time i played at least) except to make your character look better.

i honestly don't see the issue as long as they make the "heroic dungeons" or whatever they will be called in TESO, extremely hard or have tiers of difficulty.

that said, i will say that this doesn't seem to be the game suited for larger guilds and wouldn't blame large already formed guilds for passing this one by.

race lock + no large group PVE content = not good for them.

then again, we will just have to wait and see how it actually turns out.

An MMO not suited for a large group of players PvE wise sounds ironic or something of the sort when you spell out MMO.

 

 

baphamet

---

Originally posted by Nanfoodle
Originally posted by hMJem Originally posted by severius Originally posted by Nanfoodle So can you live with a MMO that has no raids? Or will that make ESO a pit stop for you before you run off to a new MMO that you and your guildies can really enjoy? Info comes from HERE!!!! : There are no raids, after all – "That's not Elder Scrolls," says Game Director Matt Firor – but there are four-man dungeons and three-faction open PvP with sieges in the beleaguered province of Cyrodiil. POSTED BY, Livnthedream: Link to more info on this topic HERE!!!!

Personally I can care less about raids.  I used to raid, A LOT.  Spent my time in top tiered raiding guilds.  Was the first person on Tichondrius PVP with Tranq Shot (in vanilla you actually had to earn it through a raid, not a freebie for every jackwagon huntard).  Then they put out an expansion pack.  Adding new raids and every piece of gear I had was suddenly worthless. Eff the game companies that think its a good idea.  Well, it is a good idea, because you have plenty of mules who want that carrot regardless of how big a pole you use which of course allows you to maximize your profits with the least amount of effort. For that matter Eff the raiders who enjoy the gear grind which allows these developers to slack off.  I want more from my games, learning the pattern was cool the first couple times.... but having to do it weekly for everyone in the guild, plus yourself, over and over and over again to make sure that everyone gets geared?  F#ck that.  I remember a stretch back with Blackwing for 6 months we ran that piece of sh!t weekly and there was one item that NEVER dropped.  NEVER. Can't remember what it was but I do remember we got the parts for the idiot Thunderfury and still never got the huntard drop. Fact is I thought boss fights sucked in the 80's at the arcade, on the atari and it is a HUGE reason why I hated the Nintendo, every japanese p.o.s. game has the moron boss fight mechanic, from the very first to the most recent.  People talk so much about innovation, yet they constantly give the japanese a pass for using the same mechanic in every single game for 30 years,

---

So whats the difference between grinding crafting recipes for the best gear in the game? Or spamming the same World Boss that is likely a tank and spank?   Come on, you dont actually think Maria whatever her name is has made AI so good it can beat humans do you? AI in all MMORPGs can be exploited.  I dont forsee any complex AI as advertised happening either. They, too, will have a pattern. Ok if I'm ranged do this, if I'm melee do this. It'll be that simple. Why? Because Elder Scrolls is a simple game.   And no, Paul Sage already says crafting gives you the best gear in the game, but they still want dungeons to drop "good gear" He said if youre a crafter, dungeons are even better, because a crafter can make the gear in dungeons EVEN BETTER. He talked like you can de-compose an item and learn how to make it. Oh, so I get an item, de-compose it, then I can make it whenever I want now if I have the mats? Talk about OP..

---

They have not said what gear system they will be using. Everything I have seen so far reminds me of DAoC and a non-gear system. Where you dont play to earn a new set of gear every 6 months to kill bigger mobs to get better loot kinda of treadmill. There is no PvP gear as well. I think it will be more like GW2, a gear plateau so to speak. If they add raiding or if their is raiding my guess players like you wont like what they add.

---

i sure as hell hope that's not the case. if they do endgame like GW2 did, that would be the game breaker for me.

i have to be progressing my character in some manner beyond max level.

baphamet

---

Originally posted by hMJem
Originally posted by baphamet   Originally posted by Arthasm My friends quit GW2 because lack of raids (only few of us still playing), now they losing interest in this game, too...

  there is no incentive to do GW2 endgame at all (last time i played at least) except to make your character look better. i honestly don't see the issue as long as they make the "heroic dungeons" or whatever they will be called in TESO, extremely hard or have tiers of difficulty. that said, i will say that this doesn't seem to be the game suited for larger guilds and wouldn't blame large already formed guilds for passing this one by. race lock + no large group PVE content = not good for them. then again, we will just have to wait and see how it actually turns out.

---

An MMO not suited for a large group of players PvE wise sounds ironic or something of the sort when you spell out MMO.

 

 

---

true, but the pvp seems to be massive at least. although, raids and large group pve content is not the only thing that makes an MMO, an MMO.

Iczer

Originally posted by hMJem

<snipped for brevity> ... So what is there to do after a couple months?  ... </snipped for brevity>

Is this what the MMO gamers mindset has devolved to these days?

I would HOPE TO GOD that one couldnt expereince all of any MMO's content after "a couple months". Further more I would EXPECT that the simple act of building a character to take much longer than that.

 

 

raistlinm

Luckily for me I have only raided sparingly no matter what mmo I was playing probably five or so times on WOW, about the same on LOTRO once on STO and that is really about it for me.

laokoko

what da.... no raid?

I don't want to go back to wow.

 

and 4 man dungeon.... ???  Why is every group content getting lesser and lesser people?  Diablo 2 have 8->diablo 3 have 4... Most mmorpg have 5.... TES get cut down to 4? 

I'm speechless.  I actually enjoy dungeon and raid and I'm very disappointed.

Livnthedream

Originally posted by Nanfoodle

Ooo pinatas =-) Will they have candy? Really we dont know, they could have boss phases and all sorts of depth. I would like more info on how they plan on doing this. If its zurg and tank/spank it wont take long till no one is doing them.

Aslong as you give them solid rewards they will. That is what drives the skinner box in the first place. Its a large part of what drives the WoW monster forward. Pvpers have a different stat so you cannot afk to high levels of gear. Pvers are given just enough garbage content to lock them into getting more gear mode, then the content is nerfed in such a way to keep the skilled players happy and the masses still collecting loot. As much as players whine about not liking it (and likely they don't) they still continue to do it in droves because psychologically they feel the need to. Its the whole reason farming works. Way back in the day it was the idea of retarded amounts of farming leading to a big score, WoW just one upped them and found a way to sell it to the masses with giving everyone "big" scores, but moving the goal posts.

JasonJ

Its been said before, it will be said again. If Closed faction/locked races/locked PvP in a world war is an OK piss poor game design decision for the sake of attempting to bring back DaoC...then no raiding is too because DaoC didnt have it until LONG after release.

We dont get TES style play, you dont get raiding.

Welcome back DaoC, welcome back!

Vembumees

Originally posted by Iczer

Originally posted by hMJem

... So what is there to do after a couple months?  ...

Is this what the MMO gamers mindset has devolved to these days?

I would HOPE TO GOD that one couldnt expereince all of any MMO's content after "a couple months". Further more I would EXPECT that the simple act of building a character to take much longer than that.

 

 

Don't you understand that a lot of people play a lot more than you do? Simple act of building a character to max level for  a hardcore player takes few days up to a week.

Livnthedream

Originally posted by Wraithone

Damn straight I can live with out the raid nonsense.  That focus attracts those who rush to the end game (GO! GO! GO!), and then after rushing through what ever is available, start howling that there isn't any content... ^^

I can also do without the total focus on dps meters and gear score, that all too many of the raider types end up pushing.

Lets see if they stick to their no raid policy.

Yeah, that has worked out GREAT for TSW!

Sephiroso

Originally posted by Vembumees

Originally posted by Iczer

Originally posted by hMJem

... So what is there to do after a couple months?  ...

Is this what the MMO gamers mindset has devolved to these days?

I would HOPE TO GOD that one couldnt expereince all of any MMO's content after "a couple months". Further more I would EXPECT that the simple act of building a character to take much longer than that.

 

 

Don't you understand that a lot of people play a lot more than you do? Simple act of building a character to max level for  a hardcore player takes few days up to a week.

don't even have to be hardcore...its the simple fact that 90% mmos play the same. an experienced mmo player barely has to learn how to play a new mmo.

Nanfoodle

Originally posted by Iczer

Originally posted by hMJem

... So what is there to do after a couple months?  ...

Is this what the MMO gamers mindset has devolved to these days?

I would HOPE TO GOD that one couldnt expereince all of any MMO's content after "a couple months". Further more I would EXPECT that the simple act of building a character to take much longer than that.

Be sure of it and they wont enojoy the content. They will power through it and not find all the little tid bits on every corner of the map. They will yell within a few weeks. DONE, NOW WHAT??!??! THIS GAME SUCKS!!! Seems to be a group of MMOers that doing nothing but that with every MMO that comes out.

Qallidexz

Instead of raiding at end-game, do something fun, and PvP.

rygard49

Originally posted by Qallidexz
Instead of raiding at end-game, do something fun, and PvP.

QFT.

Although I will admit I enjoyed WoW raiding purely from the lore/world story perspective.

Sephiroso

Originally posted by Qallidexz
Instead of raiding at end-game, do something fun, and PvP.

that is the problem with games these days. they do not offer anything fun to do. they only offer daily quests grinds, crafting grinds, dungeon grinds, reputation grinds, mob grinds.

 

at least WoW added fishing, pokemon, farming, colliseum, and a bunch of stuff i can't name atm. and yes i realize WoW didn't have any of that aside from fishing at the start, but times are changing, you can't just expect people to be complacent with what WoW had at vanilla in todays age. you have to have as much things to do that WoW has right now at launch to be truly successful, and that is where the problem lies.

 

and note, is aid things to do not content. WoW has fishing/a pve arena/farming/pokemon/raiding/and regular grind. A game can have all of that and only have 1/10th's of the raids that WoW has and it'll be amazing. You don't have to have the same amount of content, but variety in things to do in game goes a loooong way.

Vembumees

Originally posted by Qallidexz
Instead of raiding at end-game, do something fun, and PvP.

Why do casual PvP with unskilled players where I will be pretty much one of the best PvP players in the game within a small amount of time when I could play PvP games with higher skill cap and competition, which are designed 100% for PvP. LoL, Dota, sc2. It's hard to have fun in PvP in mmorpg's once you are an experienced player (exception being sandbox games and permadeath games).

Do something fun, most of us do something fun. If I'd play ESO I'd be doing probably more exploring and getting to secret areas via exploits than most of the players. But nevertheless I will have the game finished in 1-2 weeks having nothing left to do if all they have to offer is dungeons. Raiding endgame is for people who play a lot more than the casual crowd and mostly raiding takes time because it is mostly done just 3-4 hours a day due to people's different schedules and take a lot of preparation etc etc. That's how it lenghtens the content. I can assure you, I can finish this mmorpg with only 1-2 weeks and do it by 100% completion, unless they really add something time consuming in, like reputation farmings etc ( which would be annoying for most, but mechanics like that are very good for the lenght of the game, players whining about having to farm shit is a lot better than players whining about having to play a LOBBY ONLINE)

laokoko

ya I mean... I like doing hard dungeon or raid.

Quite honestly some of the post answered what I want to say.  Besides pvp those other mmorpg offers nothing.  They arn't even social.  I might as well go play other sandbox game, and I dont' even like any sandbox game on the market.

I mean the guy few post above me tell me to have fun and pvp.  What is there fun thing to do?  daily grind?  kill open world mobs that I can just auto attack and kill it?  Explore a map which isn't big?  and their very "perdictable" dynamic event?  reputation/gold grind? 

I'm sorry those are not fun.  I like to kill challenging boss.  That requrie coordination and strategy. 

Iselin

Originally posted by JasonJ

Its been said before, it will be said again. If Closed faction/locked races/locked PvP in a world war is an OK piss poor game design decision for the sake of attempting to bring back DaoC...then no raiding is too because DaoC didnt have it until LONG after release.

We dont get TES style play, you dont get raiding.

Welcome back DaoC, welcome back!

Damn. I thought you guys had declared victory and were busy celebrating somewhere else. 

I knew it was too good to be true  

pacov

Raids are just a part of a solution to keeping your attention. There could be many more ways of keeping my attention in a game, as long as they provide quality updates at least once a month. Introduce more content, add more interesting features etc etc....