Howdy, Stranger!
It looks like you're new here. If you want to get involved, click one of these buttons!
Quick Links
A plea for good archer mechanics (if there are archers, lol)
binskki
Member CommonPosts: 153
Yes, I know we really have no idea what classes there will be. But if there are archers, can we *please* have archers who need skill, timing, and clever strategic positioning to fire their arrows?
I didn't realize until I had stopped playing Dark Age how much satisfaction I got out of the fine art of getting the <nock an arrow><fire an arrow> rhythm right for my bows of different speeds, and knowing just how far I needed to edge up a hill to get that extra range needed for a kill shot.
Please, if there are archers of some sort, don't just give us a button that toggles on and off some sort of <fire arrows> ability. Boooooo to the toggle-on arrow-spamming ability. Where's the fun in that?. I am sure it's more complicated to code bows and arrows that actually behave sort of like bows and arrows...but it was a thing of beauty.
Comments
Emeryc Eightdrakes - Ranger of DragonMyst Keep - Percival
RED IS DEAD!
DAOC Live (inactive): R11 Cleric R11 Druid R11 Minstrel R9 Eldritch R6 Sorc R6 Scout R6 Healer
/agree about the supply of arrows...I had almost completely repressed that memory, meddyck, lol.
<edit for "not enough caffeine yet" typo.>
this x1000 but i was Hunter
Hunters used bows? I thought they just set their pets on scouts and ran the other direction til the RPs popped up.
I do agree though. However, I'd still like to keep the dynamic of the arrow types. Perhaps simply being able to swap between the type of ammo being used.
the first bow mechanic in DAoC was simply awesome.
on a side note, everything concerning weapon combat was great. you would see your character block, parry, evade, hear the blocking and parrying sound, it was very immersive. i hope all that is implemented in CU. close combat was also well represented, you could not hit your ennemy 12 feet away with your 3 feet long sword.
Bowbow (kob hunter) Infecto (kob cave shammy) and Thurka (troll warrior) on Merlin/Midgard DAoC
Thurka on WAR
Agreed. I hope it doesn't go the route of circle strafing and barrel rolls.
What's wrong with circle strafing/dodging?
Being able to sidestep , backstep, , etc were very much a part of historical combat and defense. Not getting hit was just as important as blocking or parrying and a good way to open up for a counter..
Yes, and dodging attacks is built in via evasion to simulate sidestepping and backstepping. No one was running circles around their opponent, jumping and spinning in circles all while attacking. Simply put, circle-strafing is the worst thing to happen to melee combat in MMOs.
'I think that there are certain crimes which the law cannot touch, and which therefore, to some extent, justify private revenge.' -Sherlock Holmes
Sidestepping and backpeddling are totally different than circle strafing. Stepping to the side to avoid a hit is fine. Running full tilt in a circle while keeping your eye on your target enough to fight effectively isn't normal and would wear you out in seconds.
DAoC had a built in penalty for trying to attack while strafing, bringing it back should be good enough.
Circle strafing, if done right, can be a HUGE step forward for melee combat.
I'm not talking about how mmo's have did it, where circle strafing didn't affect your "dodge" but was done simply to make TARGETTING you hard and annoying (IE "spam circle/jumping around).
I mean a mechanic that supports locking to your target and then allowing your s/d keys to move you in a circle around your target and having an ability that allows you to quickly side-step/dodge or roll (depending on class) out of the way to try and dodge attacks.
IF you have ever played the game Severance: Blade of Darkness (Just known as Blade of Darkness in the US) it uses this kind of system and it makes the movement in melee combat feel sooooooo much more natural and realistic.
Dodging (and blocking if you use a shield) is a vital important part of aspect and you can't "spam " things (stamina cost) and have to use things wisely. It makes movement in of itself an important aspect of combat and gives contorl of it more to the player.
To me that is (from a gameplay perspective) more funt o play as a melee class then the usual mmo-style of die rolls determing your "dodge/evasion." Those kinds of things with computers can be simulation and allow the player to control it while also have the character skills impacting it. Such as a person with high agility being able to move more quickly, being able to "roll" quickly instead of just a side-step, etc. There are many ways to make character skills influence it without having to make it completely a character-skill action.
No thanks, go play GW2
Ick! I just can't sign on for that. The combat in DAoC was great the way it was. If they can address the LoS issues concerning "running through" and other exploits, then it will be even better!
Emeryc Eightdrakes - Ranger of DragonMyst Keep - Percival
RED IS DEAD!
A realistic dodge roll would be some guy flinging himself out of harms way and scrambling to get back to his feet before he got skewered, not gracefully tucking and rolling back to his feet. Jumping and dodging would tire someone out in no time, but would be a good way to avoid that fatal blow here and there.
I understand its a game and some lean has to be had, but if we're talking realism, no one should be showing up to a fight with a dagger and a leather coat expecting to dance to victory.
But I'm fine with most of this being added if it is a means to survive and is neutral to disadvantageous to use in the long run and not a tool to get the upper hand.
Circle strafing is still stupid and has no place in any game though.
Back on topic, archer classes. I really think the game mechanics will allow archers to gather materials in the field and make arrows so they will have plenty and will not have to worry about carry so many in their quiver. Having said that, what they will have to carry in their quivers are the high power magic arrows that they have no ability to make themselves. My understanding is that the crafters will be the ones who can make these and sell them to players. So the archers will have to use their precious magic arrows wisely. As far as the actual shooting mechanics, old DAOC had it right.
Nanulak
You obviously either didn't read a word I said or haven't played GW2, it works nothing like GW2, which ihad a very "floaty" feel to it and targetted based attacks, it didn't have any real kind of kinetic impact on it's melee combat which felt more like a k"spam fest" then any real thought behind melee combat.
The difference between the way SEverance uses circle strafing, with dodges/blocks is leaps ahead of GW2 and completley different feeling and mechanics.
It has a stamina system tied into combat , you can't "spam " anything and doing so leaves you exhausted and open to being attacked.
Defense is a vitally important part of combat, more then any other melee action-game I played.
That's just my opinon on the whole circle strafing thing.
As far as archery goes, I wonder (like with the recent talk about Mages and fireballs "going somewhere" and people being able to dodge/block them) if Archery might perhaps work that way?
Where archers can fire attacks and people who are quick enough can dodge the arrow falling down or someone can step in front of it to save someone.
While I can see where you are coming from Meddyck. This was one area where crafters were needed.:)
Also how many of the old school parts do we do away with just because it is more convenient?
I believe the idea with CU is that arrows, and other lower-tier crafting is now capable of anyone , not just crafters. Since anyone can go up the first level of crafting mundane items and things like arrows is something people will have access to craft and won't haev to depend on a pure crafter for.
Correct.
As to archers, I want to see them in the game but I also want to see us do something interesting with them before I commit to them as a class. I also absolutely believe that quivers filled with arrows are an important part of their class. Having to carry them around/be smart with ammo, give us the ability to make them a bit more powerful and interesting because they also have a bit of a handicap.
I also don't want to see one-shoting being a thing, we can do better than that with our archers or we shouldn't put them in at launch. However, I'll be optimistic and say that I would be surprised if we didn't have them in at launch.
Mark Jacobs
CEO, City State Entertainment
Oh, please do not mention magic arrows. Normal physical arrows are more than good enough. We don't want WoW or current DAoC style archery, and, while I know you weren't getting at that, it is a short step away.
'I think that there are certain crimes which the law cannot touch, and which therefore, to some extent, justify private revenge.' -Sherlock Holmes
I think enchanted arrows are a great way to add utlilty to archer classes. Even just flame arrows, mm. Now that's a siege. King's landing is ours!
I like the idea of multiple methods of firing a bow as well as diferent mechanics based on the type of bow. I would love to see atleast two forms of attack: Direct Fire and Volley.
With Direct Fire, you simply aim at the target and release. When volleying, you can shoot much farther but you no longer aim at a specific target, you aim at an area. Volley fire should be much faster with you striking random targets in the area and missing much more often.
I would love for magic to have varuing mechanics as well. You can cast fast with less effect or take a longer amount of time to increase the intensity. You can aim directly at a target or aim at a general location and hope to hit something.
I bore of the simplicity of most MMORPG combat mechanics. Click target, click hotkey, repeat, win or lose. I would love to have more thought go into combat. Do I stay farther back and volley into the fight or do I get closer and try to pick off specific targets. In large fights I view archers as more like artillery.
Groovy! I think there are a lot of ways to go with archers. In addition to just powerful ranged DPS, they could use traps, pets, or be a light melee fighter also (think Legolas whipping out dual blades). And then there's Stealth, which is another issue. I don't necessarily think all archer classes must have stealth though.
Neither do I. I played a lot of archers and I really want to do something more interesting with them. I don't know what yet but I have no doubt that there will be a lot of good ideas on our forums. It's one of the reasons I'm really looking forward to have our own forums for this game, free-flowing ideas. The more that come from the community, the happier I am. I really, really don't want to be the guy who has to come up with every idea, that would mean that we didn't hire properly and that the community is bored even before the game launches. Somehow, I don't think that both are going to happen.
Mark Jacobs
CEO, City State Entertainment