Please refrain from posting your unqualified "expert" opinion so that you disagree with someone. To him it is iconic.... did you really need to post your diatribe with the "let me educate you" tone...???
Guess I have to repeat myself. Please don't make inane remarks.
First of all. My commentary was on the factual nature of fighter and warrior classes in games. It's ironic that you fling out the term 'unqualified' because it was an unqualified remark that my post had been addressed towards. It also happens to land on a subject matter I am greatly involved in and as I had noted in my first post, is consequently a peeve of mine for people to address incorrectly.
I said as much in my first post. It your own will that decided to ignore that factor and take it solely as this apparently high and mighty interpretation with your mindless righteous indignation.
Which brings me back to unqualified remarks and you. This is the second time you attack me as an individual and the second time you do so without any supporting reasoning and instead simply with unqualified remarks.
Like how your argument the first time was "You really don't have any idea what you are talking about."
It's again n exceptionally ironic moment that you'd mke an unqualified comment and insult in the same sentence as you use the word 'unqualified'.
Next point is the fact that you don't know what I have done with my life. You don't know the things I know and as consequence have no grounds to be making any claims on it aside from checking the validity of the comments made.
As it applies back to the OP it was, as I already said, a peeve of mine over his unqualified use of the term 'quintessential' in regards to a warrior type character using a greataxe. When the definition of the word used means "Representing the most perfect or typical example of a quality or class" then you should realize that's referring to a standard that in this case isn't true. And I clarified as such since it was an aspect I found incorrect.
Did I invalidate his opinions on the rest of his post? No.
Did I even try to comment on any ot the rest of it, knowing that it was largely opinion? Nope.
What I did was address a point of fact. He might have meant it as opinion, but it was not presented as such.
So I'll again return to my previous remark.
"Also stevebombsquad, please don't make inane remarks."
"The knowledge of the theory of logic has no tendency whatever to make men good reasoners." - Thomas B. Macaulay
"The greatest enemy of knowledge is not ignorance, it is the illusion of knowledge." - Daniel J. Boorstin
All I will say GW2 sure brings out the realness in people lol.
At least up to date, cause looking back at this you can tell who is really social and/or who really can be strategic and challenge themselves without being forced to form a Holy Trinity.
In fact GW2 shows who can still function without being forced to do things and who just needs to be forced because without the game having them to do things they can't actually figure out alternatives.
To be fair the big question is "What alternative?" Well my answer is just get with like minded people who love to challenge themselves and do more things like using combo fields and etc. I guess the next question is "Why challenge myself if I won't be rewarded." Well I would then say, if I truely enjoy challenging myself and being strategic in a MMORPG the best reward would be doing just that.
I think to those who just absolutely need to be forced to do things, play those games...I mean how many MMORPGs out there are based on Holy Trinity ancd Forced Group play? I know there are plenty.
Must I get started on how many out there are now F2P?
Cause GW2 doesn't need to have the Holy trinity nor forced social mechanics, it doesn't that's just being straight up and honest. I do think far as WvW they should show names or something along those lines, I do agree with some of the DAOC vets who have gripes over things. Though GW2 is just a MMORPG where is up to the player to form his/her own way to challenge themselves and to be strategic and for him/her to be social.
Now I understand the tired ass statement of "The game doesn't have moments where you have to think." Please keep telling yourself that if it makes you feel better.
The tragic part is one day reading because the game is hard it needs the holy trinity and then the next day the game is so easy it needs the trinity.
Lol is actually a bit worse reading people want change one day and then those same people believe a MMORPG isn't one unless it has the Trinity. As if there are not plenty of MMORPGs(Some look good to me to be honest) that rely on it.
Eh well, so be it ha ha.
Edited: Forgot to mention great players can seperate themselves from the norm but that's based on your skill lol...eh well once again.
In WvWvW it is very evident. Folks think because they can't outgear one another they are all the same. I have seen and been part of battles where three of us have struggled to kill one person. This holds true in any game though I guess, but skill is more prevalent in this game than any other.
If folks want to stand out among others, they can become a great leader on the field and play more of an authority in a tactial format.
Oh yea I agree, I think in my time of WvW I have met atleast someone of each proffesion hard to kill. Cause they did some things that was really smart.
Like in the midst of a fight I never thought "Hey I'm down and there is an animal over there, kill him and I'm up." Plus foods and etc help.
Though like I said GW2 just exposes those who really can't handle a change, I mean it is really obvious and a bit sad IMO. Needing roles to be different, need forced grouping to be social, needing gear grind to "stand out." I am sorry but it's really sad to read at times, cause I sit and just think "If you are actuallly social, skillful, and love to challenge yourself...why would you need the game to force you or better put require you to do this things?" I don't thin I have yet got an answer that's actually makes sense other than "Cause GW2 just doesn't have..." but then that's subjective.
AT the end of the day Holy Trinity isn't the best and for a fact is not the only thing that can work in a MMORPG, it is not a necessity, cause if it was especially for MMORPGs to be oh so successful, then I'm pretty sure GW2 would have literally failed along time ago. Holy Trinity in GW2 is learning the mechanics of the boss, then yea the challenge may not be there unless the bosses change each time you go for them, in games for Holy trinity, once you get that holy trinity down pack it is...oh yea, I thought so.
*Walks away...comes back* To add even more I without doubt know that expansion for games that rely on Holy Trinity set ups get easier than the previous cause all it takes is a good Holy Trinity, am I right? Cause if I am wrong then fine I will stand corrected. See with GW2 expansions it can get harder and harder cause you can't just go in with a Holy trinity, you got to learn the mechanics of the boss and repeat, over time you and your group might find it easy but surprisingly it won't be cause of the gear you have, or because you guys figured "Hey you sit here tank, I dps, you heal us all." It'll be because y'all as a group actually got...better lol.
I might get banned for this. - Rizel Star.
I'm not afraid to tell trolls what they [need] to hear, even if that means for me to have an forced absence afterwards.
P2P LOGIC = If it's P2P it means longevity, overall better game, and THE BEST SUPPORT EVER!!!!!(Which has been rinsed and repeated about a thousand times)
Common Sense Logic = P2P logic is no better than F2P Logic.
An MMO doesn't necesarrily need the classic "trinity", but it should have roles that make the experience enjoyable, and less chaotic with less zerg "tactics". As it is now, GW2's DEs & boss fights, are not as good as they could be. When was the last time you can remember failing a dragon event or just a regular dynamic event? Dungeons need more tactics too instead of everyone running around with their heads cut off.
I agree with someone above about WvW too. The capturing and retaking of keeps is too fast. It should literally take hours to take one keep and defeat one keep lord inside.
GW2 is sitll a great game, but it also needs more improvements just like every MMO made.
Just take a break and come back like i do, and this way you might enjoy it more this way.
I think to those who just absolutely need to be forced to do things, play those games...I mean how many MMORPGs out there are based on Holy Trinity ancd Forced Group play? I know there are plenty.
Must I get started on how many out there are now F2P?
Well "no" you shouldn't because you would have to actually look at the actual reasons they are f2p and not make incorrect correlations just because you think they prove a point.
It's amazing how many people jumpt to that arguemtn... "X went f2p from p2p because it didn't do Y. Yup, that's why it did that... no other reason possible" "
Like Skyrim? Need more content? Try my Skyrim mod "Godfred's Tomb."
The nice thing about the system GW2 is using is that you never obsolete content so you wind up with far more end-game than a treadmill based system like WoW for example, which has very little end-game at all. (Seriously, the latest raid, some PvP and that's it.) With GW2 all dungeons, Fractals, Guild challenges and missions, WvW, sPvP, world bosses, exploration, legendary objectives... all these remain viable content at end-game which is far more than most MMOs offer once you max out.
Just because everything is still viable doesn't make it interesting to do more than once. I'll never do 100% world again, ever.
The nice thing about the system GW2 is using is that you never obsolete content so you wind up with far more end-game than a treadmill based system like WoW for example, which has very little end-game at all. (Seriously, the latest raid, some PvP and that's it.) With GW2 all dungeons, Fractals, Guild challenges and missions, WvW, sPvP, world bosses, exploration, legendary objectives... all these remain viable content at end-game which is far more than most MMOs offer once you max out.
Just because everything is still viable doesn't make it interesting to do more than once. I'll never do 100% world again, ever.
So if the latest WoW raid in uninteresting, what do you do then? Well, if you want to progress, you're forced to do it anyhow, again and again, hoping for a piece of gear to drop you can use and that you'll actually win the loot roll on. GW2 lets you do what you want at max level to get the gear you want. Specific skins require specific content, but stats you can get any way you wish, including crafting. If you choose not to do 100% map completion again that won't punish you in any way. If you choose not to do the only end raid in WoW, that's it. Your character stagnates, end of game.
I'm going to keep this short in sweet but this was the biggest reason why I never played GW2.
The lack of the "Holy trinity" in a MMO is just not the type of MMO I want to play.
So while I would find it a little wierd that it took you this long for it to hit you, I can complelety understand why you left.
Completely agree. It took playing a game like GW2 to make me realize I like being important to a party for a specific role. It also helps each class feel unique and less homogenized.
If I think you are nuts? No but I think you are extremely shallow.
You understand yourself only as a surface which you feel commands the respect of your surroundings. When this surface is suddenly taken from you all that you are, identify yourself as, is gone.
And instead of understanding your importance as an officer and as meaningfull ties to other players, you show that these things mean basically nothing to you, as you without warning breaks all these ties.
You are not the leader type you like to dress up as.
I'm going to keep this short in sweet but this was the biggest reason why I never played GW2.
The lack of the "Holy trinity" in a MMO is just not the type of MMO I want to play.
So while I would find it a little wierd that it took you this long for it to hit you, I can complelety understand why you left.
Completely agree. It took playing a game like GW2 to make me realize I like being important to a party for a specific role. It also helps each class feel unique and less homogenized.
I find the "unique" argument to be a bit odd. Each profession in GW2 plays very differently from each other. There's no denying the uniqueness between them all. Yet in a trinity based system, for example if you're a dps role in WoW, all that matters at the end are your rotations and the numbers on recount when the fight is over. Every dps character is fully interchangable.
My mesmer, for example, is a balanced build of my own liking that allows me a good deal of flexibility in most fights. Null Field, for example, allows me to remove buffs from enemies or conditions from allies (or both) while also providing a combo field for allies to use. This also means that there are right and less-right times to use it. It requires being situationally aware of the whole battle instead of watching numbers on an add-on and hoping I don't blow my rotation. My elementalist and necro play completely differently even though they're also clothies.
In my experience, the hard role system has the opposite effect from what you mention. It makes all dps homogonized, all healers homogonized, all tanks are the same. As long as they don't blow the script they're all interchangable and who they are doesn't matter much at all. They're nothing but numbers, nothing unique.
I think to those who just absolutely need to be forced to do things, play those games...I mean how many MMORPGs out there are based on Holy Trinity ancd Forced Group play? I know there are plenty.
Must I get started on how many out there are now F2P?
Well "no" you shouldn't because you would have to actually look at the actual reasons they are f2p and not make incorrect correlations just because you think they prove a point.
It's amazing how many people jumpt to that arguemtn... "X went f2p from p2p because it didn't do Y. Yup, that's why it did that... no other reason possible" "
Cause that is not the reason I said that, I'm saying that if people want to play those games but never wanted to because they were p2p, then they can play some of them now cause they are f2p.
Damn.
Edited: To be fair I guess I'll elaborate more when I ask a question maybe I'll just answer it myself. I'm not oblivious to the reasons, I thought maybe if I had said "Must I get started on how many out there are now F2P because of the Forced Mechanics?" Would mean what you are talking about so I didn't state that. However what I'm saying is that games that have what people in this thread particular, want, are now F2P, cause I'm sure there are some out there who played GW2 because it was B2P, and maybe would play a certaint MMO with those forced mechanics if it wasn't P2P. Now that there are a lot of those F2P, I'm sure people can go play them now.
Edited Again: Trust me(If you want to lol) I never have (If I did then shame on me) stated that P2P games go F2P because of those forced mechanics. To be honest I think the payment model itself plays a part when going F2P, cause I mean MMO players might like it but umm I just don't see the point, the counter arguments would be cause it would be P2W or F2P for those kids. To me GW2 B2P and PS2 F2P with cosmectic shops are the best IMHO. In B4 gambles, if I can use in game gold to get cash shop items that's even better. I will say though it's all because of how GW2 is made, some of the things sold just wouldn't work for certain MMOs. Though to me I don't think P2P means automactic failure, hell look at WoW course overseas is helping out a lot. Maybe 5 dollars a month would be cool, but 15? No. Especialy if not only is it P2P but it has a cosmectic anti p2w cash shop like GW2, PS2, an I believe TSW.
P.S - It isn't just I who sees it as people(some or many) do as well but just really gets a bit hard each year seeing it as somehting worth doing when MMOs each year start out P2P and end up F2P. Maybe if it was optional but not limited like SWTOR, I think that would be fine.
I might get banned for this. - Rizel Star.
I'm not afraid to tell trolls what they [need] to hear, even if that means for me to have an forced absence afterwards.
P2P LOGIC = If it's P2P it means longevity, overall better game, and THE BEST SUPPORT EVER!!!!!(Which has been rinsed and repeated about a thousand times)
Common Sense Logic = P2P logic is no better than F2P Logic.
I guess that for those who lack the imagination to make up their own role with the tools given to them, the "on the rails" version of roles coming from WoW clones roles is a boon, and they feel lost when they don't have those rails.
And the "help each class feel unique and less homogenized" part is quite hillarious. Yeah, being exactly like every single other tank warrior, or holy priest, or whatever else out there because it's the only optimal way definitely makes on feel less homogenized... not being able to do any group content without the "tank/healer/dps" trinity makes everyone feel more unique and less homogenized... err wait... /facepalm.
Its mostly that these people want everything on rails and forced on them, from role, to grouping to quests to raiding to dailies....to enconter design. OTOH i find that approach as ultimate boredom after playing exact same games like that for years now.
I mean i understand those people to a degree, they want same ol same ol they feel comfortable with, but really do we need more EQ/WoW clones, as all of those people get bored of it as fast as anyone else.
Genre needs to evolve, it has stagnated for years now, no, more EQ/WoW clones arent doing that and GW2 is nice refreshment with some great ideas. Is it perfect? No. But it damn works, it brought lot of innovation to the table, i only wish that most new MMOs are so innovative.
I guess that for those who lack the imagination to make up their own role with the tools given to them, the "on the rails" version of roles coming from WoW clones roles is a boon, and they feel lost when they don't have those rails.
And the "help each class feel unique and less homogenized" part is quite hillarious. Yeah, being exactly like every single other tank warrior, or holy priest, or whatever else out there because it's the only optimal way definitely makes on feel less homogenized... not being able to do any group content without the "tank/healer/dps" trinity makes everyone feel more unique and less homogenized... err wait... /facepalm.
Its mostly that these people want everything on rails and forced on them, from role, to grouping to quests to raiding to dailies....to enconter design. OTOH i find that approach as ultimate boredom after playing exact same games like that for years now.
I mean i understand those people to a degree, they want same ol same ol they feel comfortable with, but really do we need more EQ/WoW clones, as all of those people get bored of it as fast as anyone else.
Genre needs to evolve, it has stagnated for years now, no, more EQ/WoW clones arent doing that and GW2 is nice refreshment with some great ideas. Is it perfect? No. But it damn works, it brought lot of innovation to the table, i only wish that most new MMOs are so innovative.
Thank you!!!!!
Oh and yea I agree with everything but just had to highlight this cause, if this was not true I know GW2 would not be around this long and/or it'd go down hill by now.
As a side note, I find it odd because a lot of naysayers arguments was that it's no different from WoW and etc but here in year 2013 it changed to it's not like WoW so it sucks. Really odd, it's like one month it's a same ol themepark and the next month it sucks because it's not like all the other themeparks.
I might get banned for this. - Rizel Star.
I'm not afraid to tell trolls what they [need] to hear, even if that means for me to have an forced absence afterwards.
P2P LOGIC = If it's P2P it means longevity, overall better game, and THE BEST SUPPORT EVER!!!!!(Which has been rinsed and repeated about a thousand times)
Common Sense Logic = P2P logic is no better than F2P Logic.
I'm going to keep this short in sweet but this was the biggest reason why I never played GW2.
The lack of the "Holy trinity" in a MMO is just not the type of MMO I want to play.
So while I would find it a little wierd that it took you this long for it to hit you, I can complelety understand why you left.
Completely agree. It took playing a game like GW2 to make me realize I like being important to a party for a specific role. It also helps each class feel unique and less homogenized.
I guess that for those who lack the imagination to make up their own role with the tools given to them, the "on the rails" version of roles coming from WoW clones roles is a boon, and they feel lost when they don't have those rails.
And the "help each class feel unique and less homogenized" part is quite hillarious. Yeah, being exactly like every single other tank warrior, or holy priest, or whatever else out there because it's the only optimal way definitely makes on feel less homogenized... not being able to do any group content without the "tank/healer/dps" trinity makes everyone feel more unique and less homogenized... err wait... /facepalm.
Was that a veiled attempt to say I have no imagination? Anyway, insult aside, I disagree that I "need" the role defining to "not feel lost". I want the role defining so that my place in the party makes sense unlike in GW2 where it's just constant chaos in dungeon runs. I like to know as a tank who I need to pull threat from and the priority of each. I also as a healer need to know who's going to being taking the brunt of the damage and as dps and CC I like to know when I need to slow down or speed up or control adds and such. GW2 doesn't ever do that as I'm supposed to do all of that at once. It's annoying, tedious and frankly bores me to tears.
I end up never feeling like part of a party or a team but more like someone who rolled up next to a bunch of other players doing the same thing I'm doing trying to get through the dungeon. Like being pulled into a pack of running lemmings.
I'm going to keep this short in sweet but this was the biggest reason why I never played GW2.
The lack of the "Holy trinity" in a MMO is just not the type of MMO I want to play.
So while I would find it a little wierd that it took you this long for it to hit you, I can complelety understand why you left.
Completely agree. It took playing a game like GW2 to make me realize I like being important to a party for a specific role. It also helps each class feel unique and less homogenized.
I guess that for those who lack the imagination to make up their own role with the tools given to them, the "on the rails" version of roles coming from WoW clones roles is a boon, and they feel lost when they don't have those rails.
And the "help each class feel unique and less homogenized" part is quite hillarious. Yeah, being exactly like every single other tank warrior, or holy priest, or whatever else out there because it's the only optimal way definitely makes on feel less homogenized... not being able to do any group content without the "tank/healer/dps" trinity makes everyone feel more unique and less homogenized... err wait... /facepalm.
Was that a veiled attempt to say I have no imagination? Anyway, insult aside, I disagree that I "need" the role defining to "not feel lost". I want the role defining so that my place in the party makes sense unlike in GW2 where it's just constant chaos in dungeon runs. I like to know as a tank who I need to pull threat from and the priority of each. I also as a healer need to know who's going to being taking the brunt of the damage and as dps and CC I like to know when I need to slow down or speed up or control adds and such. GW2 doesn't ever do that as I'm supposed to do all of that at once. It's annoying, tedious and frankly bores me to tears.
I end up never feeling like part of a party or a team but more like someone who rolled up next to a bunch of other players doing the same thing I'm doing trying to get through the dungeon. Like being pulled into a pack of running lemmings.
You are just having problems playing a NEW game with different dynamics. It's not that roles don't exist, you just don't understand them. I guess it stands to reason that when something is beyond a person ability to understand, that they find it boring.
All of my posts are either intelligent, thought provoking, funny, satirical, sarcastic or intentionally disrespectful. Take your pick.
I get banned in the forums for games I love, so lets see if I do better in the forums for games I hate.
I enjoy the serenity of not caring what your opinion is.
I'm going to keep this short in sweet but this was the biggest reason why I never played GW2.
The lack of the "Holy trinity" in a MMO is just not the type of MMO I want to play.
So while I would find it a little wierd that it took you this long for it to hit you, I can complelety understand why you left.
Completely agree. It took playing a game like GW2 to make me realize I like being important to a party for a specific role. It also helps each class feel unique and less homogenized.
I guess that for those who lack the imagination to make up their own role with the tools given to them, the "on the rails" version of roles coming from WoW clones roles is a boon, and they feel lost when they don't have those rails.
And the "help each class feel unique and less homogenized" part is quite hillarious. Yeah, being exactly like every single other tank warrior, or holy priest, or whatever else out there because it's the only optimal way definitely makes on feel less homogenized... not being able to do any group content without the "tank/healer/dps" trinity makes everyone feel more unique and less homogenized... err wait... /facepalm.
Was that a veiled attempt to say I have no imagination? Anyway, insult aside, I disagree that I "need" the role defining to "not feel lost". I want the role defining so that my place in the party makes sense unlike in GW2 where it's just constant chaos in dungeon runs. I like to know as a tank who I need to pull threat from and the priority of each. I also as a healer need to know who's going to being taking the brunt of the damage and as dps and CC I like to know when I need to slow down or speed up or control adds and such. GW2 doesn't ever do that as I'm supposed to do all of that at once. It's annoying, tedious and frankly bores me to tears.
I end up never feeling like part of a party or a team but more like someone who rolled up next to a bunch of other players doing the same thing I'm doing trying to get through the dungeon. Like being pulled into a pack of running lemmings.
You are just having problems playing a NEW game with different dynamics. It's not that roles don't exist, you just don't understand them. I guess it stands to reason that when something is beyond a person ability to understand, that they find it boring.
People really need to cool it with the insults in this thread, saying "you don't get it" or "you just can't grasp how complex it is" is frankly ridiculous.
Enjoying GW2s system doesn't make you some kind of enlightened MMO savant.
While not enjoying it does not make you a slave to the old ways or whatever else people are trying to claim here.
I can play my guardian just fine, I still find the fights boring and tedious.
I'm going to keep this short in sweet but this was the biggest reason why I never played GW2.
The lack of the "Holy trinity" in a MMO is just not the type of MMO I want to play.
So while I would find it a little wierd that it took you this long for it to hit you, I can complelety understand why you left.
Completely agree. It took playing a game like GW2 to make me realize I like being important to a party for a specific role. It also helps each class feel unique and less homogenized.
I guess that for those who lack the imagination to make up their own role with the tools given to them, the "on the rails" version of roles coming from WoW clones roles is a boon, and they feel lost when they don't have those rails.
And the "help each class feel unique and less homogenized" part is quite hillarious. Yeah, being exactly like every single other tank warrior, or holy priest, or whatever else out there because it's the only optimal way definitely makes on feel less homogenized... not being able to do any group content without the "tank/healer/dps" trinity makes everyone feel more unique and less homogenized... err wait... /facepalm.
Was that a veiled attempt to say I have no imagination? Anyway, insult aside, I disagree that I "need" the role defining to "not feel lost". I want the role defining so that my place in the party makes sense unlike in GW2 where it's just constant chaos in dungeon runs. I like to know as a tank who I need to pull threat from and the priority of each. I also as a healer need to know who's going to being taking the brunt of the damage and as dps and CC I like to know when I need to slow down or speed up or control adds and such. GW2 doesn't ever do that as I'm supposed to do all of that at once. It's annoying, tedious and frankly bores me to tears.
I end up never feeling like part of a party or a team but more like someone who rolled up next to a bunch of other players doing the same thing I'm doing trying to get through the dungeon. Like being pulled into a pack of running lemmings.
You are just having problems playing a NEW game with different dynamics. It's not that roles don't exist, you just don't understand them. I guess it stands to reason that when something is beyond a person ability to understand, that they find it boring.
People really need to cool it with the insults in this thread, saying "you don't get it" or "you just can't grasp how complex it is" is frankly ridiculous.
Enjoying GW2s system doesn't make you some kind of enlightened MMO savant.
While not enjoying it does not make you a slave to the old ways or whatever else people are trying to claim here.
I can play my guardian just fine, I still find the fights boring and tedious.
People have proven that roles exist in GW2, yet other people say they don't exist. It's natural for a person to say that something doesn't exist when they don't understand it. It's not being rude, it's just being honest and fair. Just because a person can't see outside the box that they found themselves in, doesn't mean that what is beyond the limitations of their view is nonexistant. Do you feel it's cruel to mention it to them?
All of my posts are either intelligent, thought provoking, funny, satirical, sarcastic or intentionally disrespectful. Take your pick.
I get banned in the forums for games I love, so lets see if I do better in the forums for games I hate.
I enjoy the serenity of not caring what your opinion is.
i play a dedicated healer/boonbot guardian and staff ele. i carry my 5-man group in 5v20 zerg stomps in WvW. i also carry larger groups in WvW along with other support specs. boons and burst healing make all the difference. support builds are also REQUIRED in higher lever fractals. do you need help with your build? just ask instead of rage-quitting. too bad you couldnt figure it out.
I agree and disagree a bit. I loved GW2 when I did my first run through. I got my thief up to 80 and ran a couple dungeons. That's when the boredom and tedium hit me. I've never been one for dungeon grinding for armor just so I can get the best stats until the next expansion comes out.
So I started a new toon. However, due to the fact that I explored the world completely with my thief, I found myself doing 80% of the same dymanic events, and all the same hearts and skill points. Basically experiencing the same story as my thief. If I could suffer the grind, I would be content playing through to experience the personal story. However, just based on my hatred of grinding, I find myself unable to. So now GW2, originally the game I have looked most forward to in my life, I now play ocassionally for a change of pace from what I normally get into.
I don't find fault with the way they set the game up though. They took a big risk when they added in dynamic events and dropped the holy trinity. Hats off to them, in my opinon this genre needed something new. Guild Wars 2 fell a bit short overall, but did do a few things right.
My hope is that games in the future keep trying to innovate and bring in new ideas and continue to push the limits to the MMO. Ideally, one with little to no grind, or enough content to make you forget about the grind.
I'm going to keep this short in sweet but this was the biggest reason why I never played GW2.
The lack of the "Holy trinity" in a MMO is just not the type of MMO I want to play.
So while I would find it a little wierd that it took you this long for it to hit you, I can complelety understand why you left.
Completely agree. It took playing a game like GW2 to make me realize I like being important to a party for a specific role. It also helps each class feel unique and less homogenized.
I guess that for those who lack the imagination to make up their own role with the tools given to them, the "on the rails" version of roles coming from WoW clones roles is a boon, and they feel lost when they don't have those rails.
And the "help each class feel unique and less homogenized" part is quite hillarious. Yeah, being exactly like every single other tank warrior, or holy priest, or whatever else out there because it's the only optimal way definitely makes on feel less homogenized... not being able to do any group content without the "tank/healer/dps" trinity makes everyone feel more unique and less homogenized... err wait... /facepalm.
Was that a veiled attempt to say I have no imagination? Anyway, insult aside, I disagree that I "need" the role defining to "not feel lost". I want the role defining so that my place in the party makes sense unlike in GW2 where it's just constant chaos in dungeon runs. I like to know as a tank who I need to pull threat from and the priority of each. I also as a healer need to know who's going to being taking the brunt of the damage and as dps and CC I like to know when I need to slow down or speed up or control adds and such. GW2 doesn't ever do that as I'm supposed to do all of that at once. It's annoying, tedious and frankly bores me to tears.
I end up never feeling like part of a party or a team but more like someone who rolled up next to a bunch of other players doing the same thing I'm doing trying to get through the dungeon. Like being pulled into a pack of running lemmings.
You are just having problems playing a NEW game with different dynamics. It's not that roles don't exist, you just don't understand them. I guess it stands to reason that when something is beyond a person ability to understand, that they find it boring.
People really need to cool it with the insults in this thread, saying "you don't get it" or "you just can't grasp how complex it is" is frankly ridiculous.
Enjoying GW2s system doesn't make you some kind of enlightened MMO savant.
While not enjoying it does not make you a slave to the old ways or whatever else people are trying to claim here.
I can play my guardian just fine, I still find the fights boring and tedious.
People have proven that roles exist in GW2, yet other people say they don't exist. It's natural for a person to say that something doesn't exist when they don't understand it. It's not being rude, it's just being honest and fair. Just because a person can't see outside the box that they found themselves in, doesn't mean that what is beyond the limitations of their view is nonexistant. Do you feel it's cruel to mention it to them?
No, you don't understand that roles are all about the player's perspective and you can easily have contradicting perspectives for the same game mechanic. Both are correct, because that's how they are percieved by the players. It's hard to get past your insulting manner though to even argue the point.
I'm going to keep this short in sweet but this was the biggest reason why I never played GW2.
The lack of the "Holy trinity" in a MMO is just not the type of MMO I want to play.
So while I would find it a little wierd that it took you this long for it to hit you, I can complelety understand why you left.
Completely agree. It took playing a game like GW2 to make me realize I like being important to a party for a specific role. It also helps each class feel unique and less homogenized.
I guess that for those who lack the imagination to make up their own role with the tools given to them, the "on the rails" version of roles coming from WoW clones roles is a boon, and they feel lost when they don't have those rails.
And the "help each class feel unique and less homogenized" part is quite hillarious. Yeah, being exactly like every single other tank warrior, or holy priest, or whatever else out there because it's the only optimal way definitely makes on feel less homogenized... not being able to do any group content without the "tank/healer/dps" trinity makes everyone feel more unique and less homogenized... err wait... /facepalm.
Was that a veiled attempt to say I have no imagination? Anyway, insult aside, I disagree that I "need" the role defining to "not feel lost". I want the role defining so that my place in the party makes sense unlike in GW2 where it's just constant chaos in dungeon runs. I like to know as a tank who I need to pull threat from and the priority of each. I also as a healer need to know who's going to being taking the brunt of the damage and as dps and CC I like to know when I need to slow down or speed up or control adds and such. GW2 doesn't ever do that as I'm supposed to do all of that at once. It's annoying, tedious and frankly bores me to tears.
I end up never feeling like part of a party or a team but more like someone who rolled up next to a bunch of other players doing the same thing I'm doing trying to get through the dungeon. Like being pulled into a pack of running lemmings.
You are just having problems playing a NEW game with different dynamics. It's not that roles don't exist, you just don't understand them. I guess it stands to reason that when something is beyond a person ability to understand, that they find it boring.
No, we understand them, we just don't like them. We prefer a more defined and group traditional role. It doesn't make us too stupid to understand the resulting gameplay. Knock it off with the insults, dude.
Comments
Guess I have to repeat myself. Please don't make inane remarks.
First of all. My commentary was on the factual nature of fighter and warrior classes in games. It's ironic that you fling out the term 'unqualified' because it was an unqualified remark that my post had been addressed towards. It also happens to land on a subject matter I am greatly involved in and as I had noted in my first post, is consequently a peeve of mine for people to address incorrectly.
I said as much in my first post. It your own will that decided to ignore that factor and take it solely as this apparently high and mighty interpretation with your mindless righteous indignation.
Which brings me back to unqualified remarks and you. This is the second time you attack me as an individual and the second time you do so without any supporting reasoning and instead simply with unqualified remarks.
Like how your argument the first time was "You really don't have any idea what you are talking about."
It's again n exceptionally ironic moment that you'd mke an unqualified comment and insult in the same sentence as you use the word 'unqualified'.
Next point is the fact that you don't know what I have done with my life. You don't know the things I know and as consequence have no grounds to be making any claims on it aside from checking the validity of the comments made.
As it applies back to the OP it was, as I already said, a peeve of mine over his unqualified use of the term 'quintessential' in regards to a warrior type character using a greataxe. When the definition of the word used means "Representing the most perfect or typical example of a quality or class" then you should realize that's referring to a standard that in this case isn't true. And I clarified as such since it was an aspect I found incorrect.
Did I invalidate his opinions on the rest of his post? No.
Did I even try to comment on any ot the rest of it, knowing that it was largely opinion? Nope.
What I did was address a point of fact. He might have meant it as opinion, but it was not presented as such.
So I'll again return to my previous remark.
"Also stevebombsquad, please don't make inane remarks."
"The knowledge of the theory of logic has no tendency whatever to make men good reasoners." - Thomas B. Macaulay
"The greatest enemy of knowledge is not ignorance, it is the illusion of knowledge." - Daniel J. Boorstin
Oh yea I agree, I think in my time of WvW I have met atleast someone of each proffesion hard to kill. Cause they did some things that was really smart.
Like in the midst of a fight I never thought "Hey I'm down and there is an animal over there, kill him and I'm up." Plus foods and etc help.
Though like I said GW2 just exposes those who really can't handle a change, I mean it is really obvious and a bit sad IMO. Needing roles to be different, need forced grouping to be social, needing gear grind to "stand out." I am sorry but it's really sad to read at times, cause I sit and just think "If you are actuallly social, skillful, and love to challenge yourself...why would you need the game to force you or better put require you to do this things?" I don't thin I have yet got an answer that's actually makes sense other than "Cause GW2 just doesn't have..." but then that's subjective.
AT the end of the day Holy Trinity isn't the best and for a fact is not the only thing that can work in a MMORPG, it is not a necessity, cause if it was especially for MMORPGs to be oh so successful, then I'm pretty sure GW2 would have literally failed along time ago. Holy Trinity in GW2 is learning the mechanics of the boss, then yea the challenge may not be there unless the bosses change each time you go for them, in games for Holy trinity, once you get that holy trinity down pack it is...oh yea, I thought so.
*Walks away...comes back* To add even more I without doubt know that expansion for games that rely on Holy Trinity set ups get easier than the previous cause all it takes is a good Holy Trinity, am I right? Cause if I am wrong then fine I will stand corrected. See with GW2 expansions it can get harder and harder cause you can't just go in with a Holy trinity, you got to learn the mechanics of the boss and repeat, over time you and your group might find it easy but surprisingly it won't be cause of the gear you have, or because you guys figured "Hey you sit here tank, I dps, you heal us all." It'll be because y'all as a group actually got...better lol.
I might get banned for this. - Rizel Star.
I'm not afraid to tell trolls what they [need] to hear, even if that means for me to have an forced absence afterwards.
P2P LOGIC = If it's P2P it means longevity, overall better game, and THE BEST SUPPORT EVER!!!!!(Which has been rinsed and repeated about a thousand times)
Common Sense Logic = P2P logic is no better than F2P Logic.
An MMO doesn't necesarrily need the classic "trinity", but it should have roles that make the experience enjoyable, and less chaotic with less zerg "tactics". As it is now, GW2's DEs & boss fights, are not as good as they could be. When was the last time you can remember failing a dragon event or just a regular dynamic event? Dungeons need more tactics too instead of everyone running around with their heads cut off.
I agree with someone above about WvW too. The capturing and retaking of keeps is too fast. It should literally take hours to take one keep and defeat one keep lord inside.
GW2 is sitll a great game, but it also needs more improvements just like every MMO made.
Just take a break and come back like i do, and this way you might enjoy it more this way.
Well "no" you shouldn't because you would have to actually look at the actual reasons they are f2p and not make incorrect correlations just because you think they prove a point.
It's amazing how many people jumpt to that arguemtn... "X went f2p from p2p because it didn't do Y. Yup, that's why it did that... no other reason possible"
"
Godfred's Tomb Trailer: https://youtu.be/-nsXGddj_4w
Original Skyrim: https://www.nexusmods.com/skyrim/mods/109547
Serph toze kindly has started a walk-through. https://youtu.be/UIelCK-lldo
Just because everything is still viable doesn't make it interesting to do more than once. I'll never do 100% world again, ever.
haha quitting a game over a missing weapon type
.. what a joke
You sounded so serious i almost believed you.
So if the latest WoW raid in uninteresting, what do you do then? Well, if you want to progress, you're forced to do it anyhow, again and again, hoping for a piece of gear to drop you can use and that you'll actually win the loot roll on. GW2 lets you do what you want at max level to get the gear you want. Specific skins require specific content, but stats you can get any way you wish, including crafting. If you choose not to do 100% map completion again that won't punish you in any way. If you choose not to do the only end raid in WoW, that's it. Your character stagnates, end of game.
Oderint, dum metuant.
Completely agree. It took playing a game like GW2 to make me realize I like being important to a party for a specific role. It also helps each class feel unique and less homogenized.
If I think you are nuts? No but I think you are extremely shallow.
You understand yourself only as a surface which you feel commands the respect of your surroundings. When this surface is suddenly taken from you all that you are, identify yourself as, is gone.
And instead of understanding your importance as an officer and as meaningfull ties to other players, you show that these things mean basically nothing to you, as you without warning breaks all these ties.
You are not the leader type you like to dress up as.
I find the "unique" argument to be a bit odd. Each profession in GW2 plays very differently from each other. There's no denying the uniqueness between them all. Yet in a trinity based system, for example if you're a dps role in WoW, all that matters at the end are your rotations and the numbers on recount when the fight is over. Every dps character is fully interchangable.
My mesmer, for example, is a balanced build of my own liking that allows me a good deal of flexibility in most fights. Null Field, for example, allows me to remove buffs from enemies or conditions from allies (or both) while also providing a combo field for allies to use. This also means that there are right and less-right times to use it. It requires being situationally aware of the whole battle instead of watching numbers on an add-on and hoping I don't blow my rotation. My elementalist and necro play completely differently even though they're also clothies.
In my experience, the hard role system has the opposite effect from what you mention. It makes all dps homogonized, all healers homogonized, all tanks are the same. As long as they don't blow the script they're all interchangable and who they are doesn't matter much at all. They're nothing but numbers, nothing unique.
Oderint, dum metuant.
Cause that is not the reason I said that, I'm saying that if people want to play those games but never wanted to because they were p2p, then they can play some of them now cause they are f2p.
Damn.
Edited: To be fair I guess I'll elaborate more when I ask a question maybe I'll just answer it myself. I'm not oblivious to the reasons, I thought maybe if I had said "Must I get started on how many out there are now F2P because of the Forced Mechanics?" Would mean what you are talking about so I didn't state that. However what I'm saying is that games that have what people in this thread particular, want, are now F2P, cause I'm sure there are some out there who played GW2 because it was B2P, and maybe would play a certaint MMO with those forced mechanics if it wasn't P2P. Now that there are a lot of those F2P, I'm sure people can go play them now.
Edited Again: Trust me(If you want to lol) I never have (If I did then shame on me) stated that P2P games go F2P because of those forced mechanics. To be honest I think the payment model itself plays a part when going F2P, cause I mean MMO players might like it but umm I just don't see the point, the counter arguments would be cause it would be P2W or F2P for those kids. To me GW2 B2P and PS2 F2P with cosmectic shops are the best IMHO. In B4 gambles, if I can use in game gold to get cash shop items that's even better. I will say though it's all because of how GW2 is made, some of the things sold just wouldn't work for certain MMOs. Though to me I don't think P2P means automactic failure, hell look at WoW course overseas is helping out a lot. Maybe 5 dollars a month would be cool, but 15? No. Especialy if not only is it P2P but it has a cosmectic anti p2w cash shop like GW2, PS2, an I believe TSW.
P.S - It isn't just I who sees it as people(some or many) do as well but just really gets a bit hard each year seeing it as somehting worth doing when MMOs each year start out P2P and end up F2P. Maybe if it was optional but not limited like SWTOR, I think that would be fine.
I might get banned for this. - Rizel Star.
I'm not afraid to tell trolls what they [need] to hear, even if that means for me to have an forced absence afterwards.
P2P LOGIC = If it's P2P it means longevity, overall better game, and THE BEST SUPPORT EVER!!!!!(Which has been rinsed and repeated about a thousand times)
Common Sense Logic = P2P logic is no better than F2P Logic.
Its mostly that these people want everything on rails and forced on them, from role, to grouping to quests to raiding to dailies....to enconter design. OTOH i find that approach as ultimate boredom after playing exact same games like that for years now.
I mean i understand those people to a degree, they want same ol same ol they feel comfortable with, but really do we need more EQ/WoW clones, as all of those people get bored of it as fast as anyone else.
Genre needs to evolve, it has stagnated for years now, no, more EQ/WoW clones arent doing that and GW2 is nice refreshment with some great ideas. Is it perfect? No. But it damn works, it brought lot of innovation to the table, i only wish that most new MMOs are so innovative.
Thank you!!!!!
Oh and yea I agree with everything but just had to highlight this cause, if this was not true I know GW2 would not be around this long and/or it'd go down hill by now.
As a side note, I find it odd because a lot of naysayers arguments was that it's no different from WoW and etc but here in year 2013 it changed to it's not like WoW so it sucks. Really odd, it's like one month it's a same ol themepark and the next month it sucks because it's not like all the other themeparks.
I might get banned for this. - Rizel Star.
I'm not afraid to tell trolls what they [need] to hear, even if that means for me to have an forced absence afterwards.
P2P LOGIC = If it's P2P it means longevity, overall better game, and THE BEST SUPPORT EVER!!!!!(Which has been rinsed and repeated about a thousand times)
Common Sense Logic = P2P logic is no better than F2P Logic.
Was that a veiled attempt to say I have no imagination? Anyway, insult aside, I disagree that I "need" the role defining to "not feel lost". I want the role defining so that my place in the party makes sense unlike in GW2 where it's just constant chaos in dungeon runs. I like to know as a tank who I need to pull threat from and the priority of each. I also as a healer need to know who's going to being taking the brunt of the damage and as dps and CC I like to know when I need to slow down or speed up or control adds and such. GW2 doesn't ever do that as I'm supposed to do all of that at once. It's annoying, tedious and frankly bores me to tears.
I end up never feeling like part of a party or a team but more like someone who rolled up next to a bunch of other players doing the same thing I'm doing trying to get through the dungeon. Like being pulled into a pack of running lemmings.
You are just having problems playing a NEW game with different dynamics. It's not that roles don't exist, you just don't understand them. I guess it stands to reason that when something is beyond a person ability to understand, that they find it boring.
All of my posts are either intelligent, thought provoking, funny, satirical, sarcastic or intentionally disrespectful. Take your pick.
I get banned in the forums for games I love, so lets see if I do better in the forums for games I hate.
I enjoy the serenity of not caring what your opinion is.
I don't hate much, but I hate Apple© with a passion. If Steve Jobs was alive, I would punch him in the face.
People really need to cool it with the insults in this thread, saying "you don't get it" or "you just can't grasp how complex it is" is frankly ridiculous.
Enjoying GW2s system doesn't make you some kind of enlightened MMO savant.
While not enjoying it does not make you a slave to the old ways or whatever else people are trying to claim here.
I can play my guardian just fine, I still find the fights boring and tedious.
People have proven that roles exist in GW2, yet other people say they don't exist. It's natural for a person to say that something doesn't exist when they don't understand it. It's not being rude, it's just being honest and fair. Just because a person can't see outside the box that they found themselves in, doesn't mean that what is beyond the limitations of their view is nonexistant. Do you feel it's cruel to mention it to them?
All of my posts are either intelligent, thought provoking, funny, satirical, sarcastic or intentionally disrespectful. Take your pick.
I get banned in the forums for games I love, so lets see if I do better in the forums for games I hate.
I enjoy the serenity of not caring what your opinion is.
I don't hate much, but I hate Apple© with a passion. If Steve Jobs was alive, I would punch him in the face.
From what I understand there is a difference between there being roles and needed roles. Everyone says it is a zerg rush.
adding those two words really makes that sentence proper. Zerg rush in a dungeon in nonexistant anymore they've stopped that.
All of my posts are either intelligent, thought provoking, funny, satirical, sarcastic or intentionally disrespectful. Take your pick.
I get banned in the forums for games I love, so lets see if I do better in the forums for games I hate.
I enjoy the serenity of not caring what your opinion is.
I don't hate much, but I hate Apple© with a passion. If Steve Jobs was alive, I would punch him in the face.
Not sure on why the 'pro-gw2' posters are so defensive in this thread and calling ANet a liar.
ANet has acknowledged that tutorials are 'something for us to vastly improve on'.
Pretty sure calling Anet a liar isn't going to work out too well when discussing something, but whatever.
Gdemami -
Informing people about your thoughts and impressions is not a review, it's a blog.
OP, what are you crying about?
i play a dedicated healer/boonbot guardian and staff ele. i carry my 5-man group in 5v20 zerg stomps in WvW. i also carry larger groups in WvW along with other support specs. boons and burst healing make all the difference. support builds are also REQUIRED in higher lever fractals. do you need help with your build? just ask instead of rage-quitting. too bad you couldnt figure it out.
I agree and disagree a bit. I loved GW2 when I did my first run through. I got my thief up to 80 and ran a couple dungeons. That's when the boredom and tedium hit me. I've never been one for dungeon grinding for armor just so I can get the best stats until the next expansion comes out.
So I started a new toon. However, due to the fact that I explored the world completely with my thief, I found myself doing 80% of the same dymanic events, and all the same hearts and skill points. Basically experiencing the same story as my thief. If I could suffer the grind, I would be content playing through to experience the personal story. However, just based on my hatred of grinding, I find myself unable to. So now GW2, originally the game I have looked most forward to in my life, I now play ocassionally for a change of pace from what I normally get into.
I don't find fault with the way they set the game up though. They took a big risk when they added in dynamic events and dropped the holy trinity. Hats off to them, in my opinon this genre needed something new. Guild Wars 2 fell a bit short overall, but did do a few things right.
My hope is that games in the future keep trying to innovate and bring in new ideas and continue to push the limits to the MMO. Ideally, one with little to no grind, or enough content to make you forget about the grind.
Just my 2 cents.
No, you don't understand that roles are all about the player's perspective and you can easily have contradicting perspectives for the same game mechanic. Both are correct, because that's how they are percieved by the players. It's hard to get past your insulting manner though to even argue the point.
No, we understand them, we just don't like them. We prefer a more defined and group traditional role. It doesn't make us too stupid to understand the resulting gameplay. Knock it off with the insults, dude.