You lost me at Perfect World. I don't intend to pay out monthly for a mount and everything else in the game. Last I checked, PW was still the devil. I'm definitely going to give it a try but my hopes and expectations are low.
I played WoW up until WotLK, played RoM for 2 years and now Rift. I am F2P player. I support games when I feel they deserve my money and I want the items enough. I don't troll, and I don't take kindly to trolls.
The game is free-to-play, meaning it is supported by a cash shop. However, it is far from P2W. You can enjoy the game perfectly without paying a dime.
There are no "locks" on content. You can experience everything, freely, without paying a dime. It is the same model as Guild Wars 2 in the sense that you can trade between cash-shop currency and in-game currency. As a player, you can exchange your astral diamonds for zen (if you want something from the cash-shop but don't want to spend money). The cash-shop is truly fodder for the "I got to have it now" crowd.
As for the player you leveled up purely by working the cash-shop, the same could be done in Guild Wars 2. Spend a lot of $$$$, convert all those gems to in-game money and then splurge on materials/resources and craft your way to the top. Same thing.
Dude, people have thrown nearly 2 million dollars at a game that doesn't even have an Alpha version, made by a guy whose last game was a disaster, you're in the wrong genre if seeing people spend money on virtual crap offends you this much that you're resorting to name-calling.
You make it sound as if all of us who play NW games are just going to open our wallets and let the money flow without any fore thought.
I work realy hard every day to earna paycheck and believe me i just don't throw around money. But thanks for your assumptions.
People who play F2P don't have any more constraints than an average person.
What F2P, and Neverwinter for that matter, do with the lockboxes is simply a form of online gambling. There have been many many people who lost their whole income on gambling, just like there will be people doing it in F2P games.
It's just gambling at this point, you don't even get the item you want from a shop in most F2P, you gamble and hope to get it.
F2P is a huge turnoff for me.
Also, if F2P had any constraints it wouldn't be the preferred business model, obviously some people who play F2P games are spending thousand upon thousands of dollars every month.
This is why I cannot stand the F2P crowd anymore. They think that all MMOs should be F2P with an Item Mall. So games now will come out F2P where you spend more money on all the unlocks in the game than what you would in a subscription. The F2P crowd can say how ignorant we are however they have created the problem we have in MMOs today where every publisher thinks they will hit it big with F2P cash shops and nickle and dime everyone. Its a mess and will in a few years will be different when people no longer spend hundreds of dollars on digtal in game items. They will want Subscriptions back and have to earn everything.
Free 2 play back in GW1 days worked today its just a mess just like the OP said. Its also one thing like in WoW to buy mounts or vanity items that people want to collect, its a totally different to make people use a Cash Mall vs a subscription.
This is why I cannot stand the F2P crowd anymore. They think that all MMOs should be F2P with an Item Mall. So games now will come out F2P where you spend more money on all the unlocks in the game than what you would in a subscription. The F2P crowd can say how ignorant we are however they have created the problem we have in MMOs today where every publisher thinks they will hit it big with F2P cash shops and nickle and dime everyone. Its a mess and will in a few years will be different when people no longer spend hundreds of dollars on digtal in game items. They will want Subscriptions back and have to earn everything.
No. Research shows that most F2P players don't pay a dime.
Personally i don't pay a dime. You don't need to unlock everything to have fun. I probably will never play a sub game again.
It is well known that only a small minority, the whales, are paying through the roof, and they subsidize everyone.
Also, if F2P had any constraints it wouldn't be the preferred business model, obviously some people who play F2P games are spending thousand upon thousands of dollars every month.
Yea and that is a problem when people will spend thousands of dollars every month on F2P and P2W games. That’s why I left Evony because you would get a dozen players that would spend a few thousand the day a new Evony server came out and they would already have full Level 10 everything and run the server. Then you get players like me that might be able to spend up to $50 a month on a game like it and it’s not good enough so what is the point of playing. In time publishers will see how the customer base will react and make changes. Just like more MMOs are starting to bring Sandbox back into the genera because the Themepark copies are no longer sticking well in the market.
This is why I cannot stand the F2P crowd anymore. They think that all MMOs should be F2P with an Item Mall. So games now will come out F2P where you spend more money on all the unlocks in the game than what you would in a subscription. The F2P crowd can say how ignorant we are however they have created the problem we have in MMOs today where every publisher thinks they will hit it big with F2P cash shops and nickle and dime everyone. Its a mess and will in a few years will be different when people no longer spend hundreds of dollars on digtal in game items. They will want Subscriptions back and have to earn everything.
No. Research shows that most F2P players don't pay a dime.
Personally i don't pay a dime. You don't need to unlock everything to have fun. I probably will never play a sub game again.
It is well known that only a small minority, the whales, are paying through the roof, and they subsidize everyone.
If you re-read my statement and then re-read yours you will understand that basically is what I am saying. There are many F2P mmo players that pay mutliple times the money on the Mall than they ever would in a subscription based game.
Honestly F2P will change here in the future because there are only so many people willing to spend thousands of dollars a month for a game. Subscriptions are the way to go with good MMOS not F2P. Now I do believe that there should be a F2P option in the sense of EQ2 and SWTOR only because people who are very casual players that play maybe 2 to 3 hours a week can play with only spending very little money. They might like something in the cash shop that spend money on once in a blue moon.
No. Research shows that most F2P players don't pay a dime.
Personally i don't pay a dime. You don't need to unlock everything to have fun.
You're also someone who has said time and time again you don't care for in-game community, you switch games every few months and you play MMO like single player games.
Your opinion is noted, but pretty irrelevant since you will be unable to see cash-shop issues because you jump from MMO to MMO every time the sun comes up.
No. Research shows that most F2P players don't pay a dime.
Personally i don't pay a dime. You don't need to unlock everything to have fun.
You're also someone who has said time and time again you don't care for in-game community, you switch games every few months and you play MMO like single player games.
Your opinion is noted, but pretty irrelevant since you will be unable to see cash-shop issues because you jump from MMO to MMO every time the sun comes up.
Yet, that is also how alot of more recent p2p games go. Tons of people shell out $50-$60 for a box, play a month, complain alot, then quit.
Honestly F2P will change here in the future because there are only so many people willing to spend thousands of dollars a month for a game. Subscriptions are the way to go with good MMOS not F2P. Now I do believe that there should be a F2P option in the sense of EQ2 and SWTOR only because people who are very casual players that play maybe 2 to 3 hours a week can play with only spending very little money. They might like something in the cash shop that spend money on once in a blue moon.
The market is roughly $12B in 2012 and F2P takes more than half.
No. Research shows that most F2P players don't pay a dime.
Personally i don't pay a dime. You don't need to unlock everything to have fun.
You're also someone who has said time and time again you don't care for in-game community, you switch games every few months and you play MMO like single player games.
Your opinion is noted, but pretty irrelevant since you will be unable to see cash-shop issues because you jump from MMO to MMO every time the sun comes up.
You mean i solve the cash shop issue by jump from MMO to MMO.
Yes, it is a way to get rid of the cash shop issue, with the added bonus of having something new to play.
Boycotting the game isn't going to do much to acomplish any type of precieved goal. Also, I'm having a lot of fun playing this game, you should give it a try.
Originally posted by Tjed Boycotting the game isn't going to do much to acomplish any type of precieved goal. Also, I'm having a lot of fun playing this game, you should give it a try.
No. Research shows that most F2P players don't pay a dime.
Personally i don't pay a dime. You don't need to unlock everything to have fun.
You're also someone who has said time and time again you don't care for in-game community, you switch games every few months and you play MMO like single player games.
Your opinion is noted, but pretty irrelevant since you will be unable to see cash-shop issues because you jump from MMO to MMO every time the sun comes up.
You mean i solve the cash shop issue by jump from MMO to MMO.
Yes, it is a way to get rid of the cash shop issue, with the added bonus of having something new to play.
some of us prefer to immmerse ourselve in MMOs rather then hope around, to be honest if i wanted to do that id would just stick to SP games or CO-OP games with friends since those normally are made better anyway for those aspects.
F2P may be the way of the future, but ya know they dont make them like they used to Proper Grammer & spelling are extra, corrections will be LOL at.
This is pretty simple to me. I play games to have fun playing games, NOT to participate in some Fantasy RPG version of the Home Shopping Network. Part of the fun of playing games is seeing what you are able to achieve based on your own abilities to PLAY the game, not shop in an item mall.
Now back in the day, in single play games there were these things called "cheats" which allowed the player to artificialy boost thier abilities and make the game easier to beat. Players who got frustrated with the games difficulty level used them to make the game easier to play for them...those of us who didn't want that didn't use them. Since it was all single-player, no harm, no foul.
Fast forward to today and we have the item mall which is the modern MMO equivalent of a "cheat". I'd honestly have no problem with that....save for the fact that it's a multi-user environment...it's not really alot of fun playing a game with other players who are playing on a different "difficulty mode" then you are, and the MMO Developers is considering those "cheats" as thier main mode of income, so they are building the game with the expectation that a player will buy them.
Bottom line, I WON'T buy a "cheat" in a game, ever....not even a minor inconsequential one. It's not part of what is FUN about games for me...and I won't waste my time doing things that aren't fun. If a game is still FUN for me to play without buying cheats, then I will.....Too bad for that Developer though, as I do believe that people who provide a quality service should be fairly paid for thier work.....they've lost money I WOULD otherwise have paid them by basing thier revenue model on something that directly detracts from my fun in playing thier game.
If the game isn't fun without buying a "cheat"....then I won't play....if that means I never buy another MMO again....no big loss, there are so many other fun things in life to do.
Note, I'm not looking down on anyone who buys a "cheat"....loaded word I know..... if it's still fun for you doing that, good for you. It's just incompatible with what I find fun.
As far as Neverwinter......it pretty much got written off for me when I saw it was Cryptic producing it. Perfect Worlds involvement just sealed the deal. A companies past behavior is perdictive of future performance.....and muy time is too valuable to me to waste on bad bets. YMMV.
Has anyone even found hard evidence that this is B2W? I have seen these threads come up before for Neverwinter but I still havn't seen anything more then speculation? I understand the prices are higher then people want, but that is not enough of a case to call it B2W.
Anyone in game or have been playing in game that can comment further on this?
Originally posted by Torgrim I boycotted this game as soon as I knew Cryptic was behind the wheel.
So, your saying instead of giving a chance to a developer, you would just turn a cheek and ignore a game?
Yes with Cryptic track record and their own words that they can make a MMO in 2 years tells me that.
If you know anything about Cryptic then you should know that they are the Mc Donalds of MMORPGS, they just want to pump out as much games as possible in the shortest time with a massive item shop.
Why in hell should I give these clowns a second chance when they raped Star Trek IP and now the Forgotten Realms IP?
Has anyone even found hard evidence that this is B2W? I have seen these threads come up before for Neverwinter but I still havn't seen anything more then speculation? I understand the prices are higher then people want, but that is not enough of a case to call it B2W.
Anyone in game or have been playing in game that can comment further on this?
Not true P2W, although the founder companion and weapon make the first 20 levels or so VERY easy (not that they arent already easy).
Many of the store items are VERY convienient though, things that would make life alot more pleasant but that wil cost you, like bags, which you can only get very few of through quests, mounts, which help alot later on and the top tier ones are VERY expensive both in store ($40) and in game currency, and respec tokens ($6). Character slots are very reasonably priced at 2 for $5.
If things like the bags were account wide rather than just 1 character I would have a much easier time buying one or 2.
The cash shop is a ripoff, but that doesn't mean the gameplay is bad. I'll try it out just to see what the foundry is all about (I'm hoping like a SimDungeon type of thing), but I will never spend a dime in any cash shop.
I don't look at games which are not out with enough detail to comment on the cash shop.
But anyone who thought F2P was about playing for free needs their head examined. To those of you who talk about playing without needing to play I will say this. Do you really think it ends here? Do you really think the need to use the cash shop will not creep in more and more until it becomes very difficult to play without using it?
Cash shops are about making money. F2P is about making money. F2P is becoming B2W which in turn will become 'pay now and then' with a B2W option.
Comments
I played WoW up until WotLK, played RoM for 2 years and now Rift.
I am F2P player. I support games when I feel they deserve my money and I want the items enough.
I don't troll, and I don't take kindly to trolls.
The game is free-to-play, meaning it is supported by a cash shop. However, it is far from P2W. You can enjoy the game perfectly without paying a dime.
There are no "locks" on content. You can experience everything, freely, without paying a dime. It is the same model as Guild Wars 2 in the sense that you can trade between cash-shop currency and in-game currency. As a player, you can exchange your astral diamonds for zen (if you want something from the cash-shop but don't want to spend money). The cash-shop is truly fodder for the "I got to have it now" crowd.
As for the player you leveled up purely by working the cash-shop, the same could be done in Guild Wars 2. Spend a lot of $$$$, convert all those gems to in-game money and then splurge on materials/resources and craft your way to the top. Same thing.
^Read this and learn.
People who play F2P don't have any more constraints than an average person.
What F2P, and Neverwinter for that matter, do with the lockboxes is simply a form of online gambling. There have been many many people who lost their whole income on gambling, just like there will be people doing it in F2P games.
It's just gambling at this point, you don't even get the item you want from a shop in most F2P, you gamble and hope to get it.
F2P is a huge turnoff for me.
Also, if F2P had any constraints it wouldn't be the preferred business model, obviously some people who play F2P games are spending thousand upon thousands of dollars every month.
This is why I cannot stand the F2P crowd anymore. They think that all MMOs should be F2P with an Item Mall. So games now will come out F2P where you spend more money on all the unlocks in the game than what you would in a subscription. The F2P crowd can say how ignorant we are however they have created the problem we have in MMOs today where every publisher thinks they will hit it big with F2P cash shops and nickle and dime everyone. Its a mess and will in a few years will be different when people no longer spend hundreds of dollars on digtal in game items. They will want Subscriptions back and have to earn everything.
Free 2 play back in GW1 days worked today its just a mess just like the OP said. Its also one thing like in WoW to buy mounts or vanity items that people want to collect, its a totally different to make people use a Cash Mall vs a subscription.
No. Research shows that most F2P players don't pay a dime.
Personally i don't pay a dime. You don't need to unlock everything to have fun. I probably will never play a sub game again.
It is well known that only a small minority, the whales, are paying through the roof, and they subsidize everyone.
Yea and that is a problem when people will spend thousands of dollars every month on F2P and P2W games. That’s why I left Evony because you would get a dozen players that would spend a few thousand the day a new Evony server came out and they would already have full Level 10 everything and run the server. Then you get players like me that might be able to spend up to $50 a month on a game like it and it’s not good enough so what is the point of playing. In time publishers will see how the customer base will react and make changes. Just like more MMOs are starting to bring Sandbox back into the genera because the Themepark copies are no longer sticking well in the market.
If you re-read my statement and then re-read yours you will understand that basically is what I am saying. There are many F2P mmo players that pay mutliple times the money on the Mall than they ever would in a subscription based game.
Honestly F2P will change here in the future because there are only so many people willing to spend thousands of dollars a month for a game. Subscriptions are the way to go with good MMOS not F2P. Now I do believe that there should be a F2P option in the sense of EQ2 and SWTOR only because people who are very casual players that play maybe 2 to 3 hours a week can play with only spending very little money. They might like something in the cash shop that spend money on once in a blue moon.
IMO there is no difference in quality, content release or customer service between a good f2p and a good p2p, or a bad f2p and a bad p2p.
You're also someone who has said time and time again you don't care for in-game community, you switch games every few months and you play MMO like single player games.
Your opinion is noted, but pretty irrelevant since you will be unable to see cash-shop issues because you jump from MMO to MMO every time the sun comes up.
Yet, that is also how alot of more recent p2p games go. Tons of people shell out $50-$60 for a box, play a month, complain alot, then quit.
Boycott is having a big effect.
Servers and logins are a ghost town.
The market is roughly $12B in 2012 and F2P takes more than half.
http://www.superdataresearch.com/global-mmo-games-spending-exceeds-12bn/
"Both companies estimate the global MMO games market to rise above $12bn in 2012"
http://www.superdataresearch.com/us-free-to-play-does-it-pay-to-switch/
"The good news is that in 2012, F2P MMOs made more than their P2P counterparts, capturing the majority of the MMO US market’s revenue"
A $6B market (and it is growing) is enough to support MANY companies.
You mean i solve the cash shop issue by jump from MMO to MMO.
Yes, it is a way to get rid of the cash shop issue, with the added bonus of having something new to play.
I definitely will, since it is F2P.
some of us prefer to immmerse ourselve in MMOs rather then hope around, to be honest if i wanted to do that id would just stick to SP games or CO-OP games with friends since those normally are made better anyway for those aspects.
F2P may be the way of the future, but ya know they dont make them like they used to
Proper Grammer & spelling are extra, corrections will be LOL at.
This is pretty simple to me. I play games to have fun playing games, NOT to participate in some Fantasy RPG version of the Home Shopping Network. Part of the fun of playing games is seeing what you are able to achieve based on your own abilities to PLAY the game, not shop in an item mall.
Now back in the day, in single play games there were these things called "cheats" which allowed the player to artificialy boost thier abilities and make the game easier to beat. Players who got frustrated with the games difficulty level used them to make the game easier to play for them...those of us who didn't want that didn't use them. Since it was all single-player, no harm, no foul.
Fast forward to today and we have the item mall which is the modern MMO equivalent of a "cheat". I'd honestly have no problem with that....save for the fact that it's a multi-user environment...it's not really alot of fun playing a game with other players who are playing on a different "difficulty mode" then you are, and the MMO Developers is considering those "cheats" as thier main mode of income, so they are building the game with the expectation that a player will buy them.
Bottom line, I WON'T buy a "cheat" in a game, ever....not even a minor inconsequential one. It's not part of what is FUN about games for me...and I won't waste my time doing things that aren't fun. If a game is still FUN for me to play without buying cheats, then I will.....Too bad for that Developer though, as I do believe that people who provide a quality service should be fairly paid for thier work.....they've lost money I WOULD otherwise have paid them by basing thier revenue model on something that directly detracts from my fun in playing thier game.
If the game isn't fun without buying a "cheat"....then I won't play....if that means I never buy another MMO again....no big loss, there are so many other fun things in life to do.
Note, I'm not looking down on anyone who buys a "cheat"....loaded word I know..... if it's still fun for you doing that, good for you. It's just incompatible with what I find fun.
As far as Neverwinter......it pretty much got written off for me when I saw it was Cryptic producing it. Perfect Worlds involvement just sealed the deal. A companies past behavior is perdictive of future performance.....and muy time is too valuable to me to waste on bad bets. YMMV.
Has anyone even found hard evidence that this is B2W? I have seen these threads come up before for Neverwinter but I still havn't seen anything more then speculation? I understand the prices are higher then people want, but that is not enough of a case to call it B2W.
Anyone in game or have been playing in game that can comment further on this?
Yes with Cryptic track record and their own words that they can make a MMO in 2 years tells me that.
If you know anything about Cryptic then you should know that they are the Mc Donalds of MMORPGS, they just want to pump out as much games as possible in the shortest time with a massive item shop.
Why in hell should I give these clowns a second chance when they raped Star Trek IP and now the Forgotten Realms IP?
If it's not broken, you are not innovating.
Not true P2W, although the founder companion and weapon make the first 20 levels or so VERY easy (not that they arent already easy).
Many of the store items are VERY convienient though, things that would make life alot more pleasant but that wil cost you, like bags, which you can only get very few of through quests, mounts, which help alot later on and the top tier ones are VERY expensive both in store ($40) and in game currency, and respec tokens ($6). Character slots are very reasonably priced at 2 for $5.
If things like the bags were account wide rather than just 1 character I would have a much easier time buying one or 2.
I don't look at games which are not out with enough detail to comment on the cash shop.
But anyone who thought F2P was about playing for free needs their head examined. To those of you who talk about playing without needing to play I will say this. Do you really think it ends here? Do you really think the need to use the cash shop will not creep in more and more until it becomes very difficult to play without using it?
Cash shops are about making money. F2P is about making money. F2P is becoming B2W which in turn will become 'pay now and then' with a B2W option.