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How you want your rezzing?
naezgul
Member Posts: 374
A. Rezzing>reduced casting speed 10%/60 seconds....stacks to 50% reduction.
this affects ALL casting by the healer who rezzed
B.Reduce range of spell, longer cast time, have a cool down, rezzed player does not port to healers loc, must be rezzed within 20 seconds of death.
All factors can be raised/lowered with how Rez line is specced.
C. You die. You get rezzed into the veil.( you actually need to be rezzed by a realm mate, you DO NOT automatically go there) You can be attacked in the veil by VW's, veil mobs, other rezzed enemies. To get out of the veil an enemy player that was marked by the rezzer(realm mate that rezzed you)must be killed. You will drop into material plane. Otherwise it's on a predetermined time. If you die while in the veil your body materializes in the normal plane where you can be rezzed again.(rinse repeat) If you don't get rezzed within 45 seconds your body releases to your main city.
Lots of stuff to be tweaked with C.
Comments
It goes like this:
A -No penalty
B-Small penalty
C - huge penalty
i already have a nice text document talking about rez, but saving it for the backers forum lol, obviously most of the core players that were here at first moved to different places.
Bowbow (kob hunter) Infecto (kob cave shammy) and Thurka (troll warrior) on Merlin/Midgard DAoC
Thurka on WAR
Talk about changing rezzing. Move away from instant or short cast time rezzes as most are now. The push for a death having a bit more impact.
O hell i'll post it here and get some initial feedbacks :
Resurrection : Another big issue : First of all, i'm all for rezzes, but it shouldnt be too easy, too often, and allow rezzed player to get back into the battle quickly. those of course are pretty obvious, and mostly everyone agree on that (at least i think)
But how can we deal with those issues ? This is what i want to talk about. I'll propose some ideas that i had regarding this, some will be bad ideas, some will involve some of the BSC ideas already mentionned by MJ, some will just be modified versions of existing rezzing etc.
Cost of healing : Rezzing someone should cost a lot...a few people mentionned that it should be a % of your whole mana to rezz someone. i.e. 25%. So no matter how powerful the healer is, bringing someone back to life would always be costly to your overall mana ressource. it makes sense.
Time to cast : if its implemented without any other BSC ideas, a minimum of 5 seconds should be good, i'd even go up to 10 seconds without being interrupted. another thing that makes sense.
But i mostly want to discuss of the effects a rezz has on the person that is being rezzed, i think that most of the problems that comes with rezzing is regarding this aspect.
Simple non BSC ideas about that : a rez sickness, kinda like DAoC but different : a 5 minutes rez sickness. rez sickness would have those effect : you cannot receive any stat buffs for the duration of the rez sickness. your damage dealing is lowered, so are your resistance agaisnt elemental damage (i.e. you re basically stuck with only your racial bonuses and items bonuses for the duration of RS). The heals on you have reduced effectiveness. I thought of suggesting that you could not be affected by a group speed buff when rez sick, but depending on the situation, it would be pretty bad, you could most likely be left there to rot only because after you are rezzed, you would not be able to follow your group.
So basically, what most of us dont want to see, is someone dying, being rezzed and be able to run back into the battle within seconds, or even after a few minutes, it removes a lot of the strategies needed to win a battle, it's counterimmersive, it removes any impact on death. and as MJ mentionned, Death should matter.
So now...
Lets think outside the box, and add those BSC ideas that MJ mentionned in the big picture....
The souls could play an important part in the rezzing... What if you die...healer targets you, cast a rez....5 to 10 seconds later the spell is over..your body is brought back near the caster. Now, should it mean that you re able to stand up again and walk away ? what if the rezz spell was in fact a spell that allows your soul to find its way back to your body ? ...
Rewind....
You die...healer targets you, cast a rez....5 to 10 seconds later, your body is brought back near the healer, the spell is over...Your soul starts coming back to its body from wherever it went after you died, and it would take 5 minutes for your soul to reconnect with your body, allowing you to finally stand up and walk away ? It would also add some some of surprise effect, as the ennemy would see dead bodies all around, without knowing wich one will raise again
Also this possibility : you die, but once a rez spell has been cast on you, you re-appear as your soul, in the Veil, and you have to find you way back to your body ? ( i see some "cheating" involved in this i.e, but still, brainstorming only
, Of course you soul would re appear at a reasonable distance of your body, and you would be shown in wich direction your body lies over the compass, you would have to travel to the exact position of your body, but in the Veil, and once you're there, your soul re-enter your body ( that idea is a bit far fetched, but still, BSC only )
This would also prevent dead players to actually observe the battle and even help his groupmates like we often see, giving information to the group, (he's dead, he shouldnt be able to).
Those ideas including the BSC stuff from MJ would remove any needs for any rez sickness, as no matter what happens, once the rezz is cast, it would take 5 minutes for you to be able to do something again.(5 minutes is just serving as an example, it could be 10, 15 minutes, that time depending on many factors like size of maps, length of combat, amount of places where you can be bound etc)
Now, about souls, what if rezzing someone WOULD require a soul you captured ? Rezzing someone would require a healer to have captured souls with him, and each rez could cost 1 of those souls ? a Life for a Life ! that would make sense too, it would prevent excessive rezzing all the time, healers would have to consider rezzing someone before actually doing it.
i won't elaborate on souls much, (This is for another thread) but i see them playing an important part in resurrection.
Bowbow (kob hunter) Infecto (kob cave shammy) and Thurka (troll warrior) on Merlin/Midgard DAoC
Thurka on WAR
All players should be able to rez their comrades not just the healers.
but
There needs to be a proper death penalty eg 25% loss of hp stackable upto 3 times with a 20 minute cd on each stack, once you use your rez spell then it should be locked for 30 minutes.
There needs to be a better dp than what we have now in rvr games, else once again you can die without any consequence.
Daoc did it fine. 50% of the healer's mana bar, though i'd increase the cast to 5-10 seconds like bow suggested. I'd rather just see reduced damage/healing done rather than increased cast times for rez'd players, maybe a slow as well. I'd put it at like 2 minute duration though, 20-30 minutes is insane.
A bit more on the extreme side a 1 or 2 minute cooldown could be put on it. I'm mixed on rezzes honestly because if you take them out completely (MJ mentioned it was possible in KS comments) it'll be horrible, because small coordinated groups would be fragmented... I think punishing people for not being in the safety of the zerg (to be able to back out of a fight easily) is the wrong way to go.
I also see an issue with no cd rez in large battles making running out to fight an easy decision if a healer is around.
All players should be able to rez? lol no please no hahaha
Should be significant requiring rest before doing it again, ie. 50% like in daoc.
There was a rez sickness everytime you died where your stats were all reduced for Xmins. Makes sense? punishment for dieing.
5 sec cast means its really hard to rez in combat, which makes someone dieing sting even more.
Daoc did this right, was perfect, but again depends on how they do other things, so I would wait to adjust things until alpha/beta
Ozek - DAOC
Niix - Other games that sucked
rez sickness ... please no we dont need that, thats still way to carebear haha haha.
5 second rez casts are in loads of pvp games, it is very easy to rez with a 5 second cast, i know for i play a healer in these games.
Stop trying to make cu into another carebear rvr game, give cu a backbone and make death into a penalty that it should be.
Ohkkk I get it. I skimmed a few posts but here are my thoughts, from a healer's PoV:
1. Only healers should be able to rez, otherwise you have people popping up all over the place and suddenly death is meaningless. It also gives healer's more importance as well as adding in a layer of strategy for the enemy team. If they can keep the healer's from rezzing that guy they can turn the tide of battle in their favor, but if they don't know who is rezzing, they don't have that option.
2. Long cast, 5-10 seconds, takes up 50-75% of the MP bar. Has maybe a 20-30 second cooldown. So not epicly long but also doesn't allow you to spam rez back to back, although with rez taking up so much MP the healer would have to wait to regain mana anyway. It also forces them to make a choice - do I stop to rez this guy, or keep on healing my team for a bit until I can find the right moment? I do think it should work in combat, though.
3. Some sort of "rez sickness". So in TERA they had that stamina thing that made your stats lowered, requiring you to either sit by a campfire or drink a potion. Aion and WoW had a similar effect that only was reduced by waiting the appropriate amount of time (although I do like TERA's campfire idea because it allows the player to recover faster if he can find a safe spot with which to do so. Just not the potion thing because it makes it too quick and easy and pointless). All three cases allowed you to go back to town and pay an NPC to clear it for you.
4. Dying means your body is just sitting on the ground, no ghost form or veil or anything. If you die you should not be able to move anywhere or do anything. You're useless to your team unless they can find time to rez you, or you bite the bullet and go back to town. It needs to mean something. So you can sit there for say 30 mins until you get auto rezzed in town. For those 30 minutes you can either be rezzed by a healer, or auto rezzed at your town/bind point/whatever. But it's far away from battle either way, and in some sort of "safe" zone. Again, requiring you to make a choice.
I chose B, but to be honest I like the idea of exploring a way for it to involve the veil during testing. I didn't vote for the veil idea you listed, because, in my opinion, it is one of the least desirable veil Rez ideas that have been tossed around in the backers comments and other forums. There are much more interesting and elegant rezzing mechanics ideas being tossed around currently.
MJs comments in the Kickstarter yesterday seem to suggest it will not be anything close to DAoC style rezzing. Should be interesting.
DAOC Live (inactive): R11 Cleric R11 Druid R11 Minstrel R9 Eldritch R6 Sorc R6 Scout R6 Healer
I liked how daoc did it. Normal cast, decent amount of mana. Don't remember much of a sickness if you got a rez. The greater sickness was if you had to release.
Don't want rezzing to be a long chore. What if you had a major battle, killed off the other side, but half your group died. Rezzing those shouldn't take forever. The way some of you are talking, if you try getting those 50 people up, the enemy will probably be back at you before the rezzes are finished lol.
Rezzing can be quick, just make it out of combat. That way it is more of a salvage after winning instead of trying to do it to win a fight. Does it really matter how fast or slow or annoying resurections are if the battle is already over and your side won?
then read what i posted, it involves much more requirement possible for rezzes and how they can be done.
i didnt talk about the risks in there yet, mainly how it could be managed. the risks are for another thread.
Bowbow (kob hunter) Infecto (kob cave shammy) and Thurka (troll warrior) on Merlin/Midgard DAoC
Thurka on WAR
The most memorable fights I've had in DAOC though were the ones where one healer died then the other rezzed him, he rezzed a caster, and we came back and won. Making rezzing during a fight impossible would make fights much less interesting. Then most of the time whichever side lost a player first would lose. Boring! Also during sieges there basically is never a time when you are out of combat until the siege is over. It wouldn't be very fun if you died at the beginning of a siege and had to wait until the very end to get rezzed.
DAOC Live (inactive): R11 Cleric R11 Druid R11 Minstrel R9 Eldritch R6 Sorc R6 Scout R6 Healer
My thought was similar to BowBow's soul idea. What if soul's could come into play more than just a token of a fallen enemy. What if you had a soul spec tree that determined what bonuses you got from souls when got them maybe, even activatable abilities. They could function like charges. Maybe offensive characters could boost their melee or spell damage, defensive oriented ones could again boost their defense. What if healers though could not only boost their healing but their activatable ability would be a rez. Depending on how they specced maybe that rez had less penalities. But because it was based on soul charges they had to actively be out there involved in murdering enemies in order to be able to rez.
If I get laughed at for that idea, I would also had a thought of what if rezzing didn't cost mana. What if it cost healers life instead. In order to bring back a life you had to sacrifice some of your own. Make it like 50 or 75% of the healers health to do. That would mean they would have to be very strategic about when they choose to rez someone. If its after a battle so be it. But if you tried to do it mid battle you'd make yourself a huge and easy target. It would also counter the fact that one healer could stand there and rez an entire army in a minute.
I think it would be very interesting to see rezzing either have very heavy penalties or even not exist.
Before reacting to that, just stop and imagine what that would do to any form of seige warfare.
It causes attrition to actually have a viable effect against a larger force if those people cant just be popped right back up after a skirmish.
Skilled players could ambush a zerg and then retreat, forcing them to either continue on weakened or wait for their killed comrades to return (giving the smaller force more time to gather reinforcements).
Not being fun is another
There is a balancing and let me tell you eliminating razzing is not reaching th balance
Ozek - DAOC
Niix - Other games that sucked
You die, maybe regroup with others who died at the spawn and start heading back towards the siege. Perhaps you run into more PvP with a different group on the way as fighting breaks out on the periphery of the main battle with players from different realms all moving towards the same area. Not sure why thats "not fun".
You seem really good at just defining "fun" and saying "no thats bad" without giving any actual reasons whenever you post about anything.
Other games needed rezzing for PvE content. Obviously you dont want to have a raid sit and wait because they need exactly X amount of dps to kill a monster.
However PvP is much more dynamic then that. You might have to shift goals, or change your strategy, but theres never a situation where you have to just sit around waiting for players x,y, and z if they happen to die.
Read the thread - and honestly I think it's too early to decide.
Why? Because the size of the world and the travel mechanics are not yet known.
The intent seems to be that players who are killed cannot simply jump back into the battle which is a good idea IMHO. (Remember I am a WWIIoLer and I have seen several changes in the spawning there and honestly I think it's better when people have to travel further - or take longer - to get back to battle. Although it is also frustrating at times.)
However, I do like the concept that a players could be 'rezzed' to the Veil - that idea has a lot of potential - depending on how the Veil works exactly.
Nothing says irony like spelling ideot wrong.
1v1?
not sure where you got that
A few of my thoughts:
- Only healers should be able to cast resurrection spells.
- Without a healer, players can resurrect in a "safe" location. No appearing out of thin air where you died.
- Any healer resurrection spells should be castable in combat, but probably with a pretty long cast time, and the ressed player having very low health.
- I'm OK with temporarity debuffs for a few minutes if you haven't got a healer to ress you. Even harsh ones. But there should be something interesting to do while you're waiting for it to go away.
- BSC idea: When players resurrect without another player ressing them, they resurrect at the closest Healer's House. A few Healer's Houses are placed, NPC-controlled, in a few areas to make sure there's always somewhere to ress. The simulation is that the player's body was carried to the Healer's House from the battlefield to be restored, or maybe that his soul was drawn there. To make treks back to the front shorter, crafters have the ability to construct Healer's Houses of their own and man them with NPCs. The catch is there's a limit to how many players can be resurrected in a healer's house in a given span of time, so if only a few die, they can return into fight relatively quickly if the HH isn't placed too far, although debuffs still apply. If lots of players are dying, many will have to be queued for resurrection at the closest HH or they'll need to find a HH further away with lower queue time or no queue time. This means smartly organised players can reinforce well as long as they don't die in big numbers. Some mechanic would be needed to prevent spamming Healer's Houses in the same area.