Maybe we need to take a step back from the mechnical side of rezzes. Instead of talking about rezz time in seconds or range in meters, CDs etc, lets talk about the basics.
You are probably correct, but I have wasted way too much of my life writing spell books not to take crack at it. So here goes. Unbalanced? Likely. Flawed? Certainly.
TL:DR - Three resurrection spells for consideration.
Description: The healer lays hands on Realm mate while invoking the divine and supernatural powers bestowed on her by knowledge, grace and connection to the Emissaries to revive her fallen mate at the healer’s present location with 40% of the target’s maximum health and mana. Skill cannot be used in combat or target a burned corpse. Casting, cost and resulting target vigor can be modified by enchantments and healer progression.
Description: The healer channels the grace of the Emissaries from a distance upon on a fallen Realm mate to revive the PC at the target’s present location with 40% of the target’s maximum health and mana. Skill may be used in combat, but not upon a burned corpse. Casting, cost and resulting target vigor can be modified by enchantments and healer progression.
Mass Battle Resurrection
Target: Up to 10 PCs of your Realm
Range: Circular area of effect defined by perimeter with radius extending 15 meters from the caster
Description: The healer makes the ultimate sacrifice of their lives for the greater glory of the Realm, reviving PCs at the target’s present location with 40% of the target’s maximum health and mana. Skill may be used in combat, but not upon a burned corpse. Casting, cost and resulting target vigor can be modified by enchantments and healer progression. Upon death, the healer is instantly transported to the Veil to fight its monstrosities at full vigor. If still alive after ten minutes, the healer is transported back to the spot of invocation at full vigor. If defeated in the Veil, the healer is sent to a bind point and suffers with resurrection sickness for ten minutes.
Maybe we need to take a step back from the mechnical side of rezzes. Instead of talking about rezz time in seconds or range in meters, CDs etc, lets talk about the basics.
You are probably correct, but I have wasted way too much of my life writing spell books not to take crack at it. So here goes. Unbalanced? Likely. Flawed? Certainly.
TL:DR - Three resurrection spells for consideration.
Description: The healer lays hands on Realm mate while invoking the divine and supernatural powers bestowed on her by knowledge, grace and connection to the Emissaries to revive her fallen mate at the healer’s present location with 40% of the target’s maximum health and mana. Skill cannot be used in combat or target a burned corpse. Casting, cost and resulting target vigor can be modified by enchantments and healer progression.
Description: The healer channels the grace of the Emissaries from a distance upon on a fallen Realm mate to revive the PC at the target’s present location with 40% of the target’s maximum health and mana. Skill may be used in combat, but not upon a burned corpse. Casting, cost and resulting target vigor can be modified by enchantments and healer progression.
Mass Battle Resurrection
Target: Up to 10 PCs of your Realm
Range: Circular area of effect defined by perimeter with radius extending 15 meters from the caster
Description: The healer makes the ultimate sacrifice of their lives for the greater glory of the Realm, reviving PCs at the target’s present location with 40% of the target’s maximum health and mana. Skill may be used in combat, but not upon a burned corpse. Casting, cost and resulting target vigor can be modified by enchantments and healer progression. Upon death, the healer is instantly transported to the Veil to fight its monstrosities at full vigor. If still alive after ten minutes, the healer is transported back to the spot of invocation at full vigor. If defeated in the Veil, the healer is sent to a bind point and suffers with resurrection sickness for ten minutes.
For what its worth, i like it. Obviously the devil lies in the detail of things like how the game determines when someone is in combat and how difficult it will be to burn a corpse and prevent a later rezzing.
Also the last one ... speaking as a healer im having trouble envisioning a situation where i would and could use that. Hard to pull off in a battle, and unnecessary after a battle.
Only partially thought out ideas, but the core elements are there. Curious to hear what you guys think.
A rez during a battle should be possible but several criteria should have to be met. In most situations it should make more sense for healers to have to wait until the end of the fight/push/retreat to rez the fallen and regroup. When you die your soul is captured by the Veil and you have a whole mess of new problems to deal with until you can be reanimated or are rejoined with your corporeal body. You cannot see the battle field, you have to deal with VW/VS, and have to navigate through the hostilities of the Veil. I envision 3 ways to reanimate.
1 Rez from rezzer in combat,
2 Rez from rezzer out of combat
3 Travel through the Veil to a stabilizer-
------------------------------
1. Battle rez should have significant cost. Both time and health/stats/mana. Durring a fight cast time is drastically longer (10-15 seconds) if the rezzer has recently casted an offensive spell, been attacked, or had an offensive spell cast on them. If the rezzer has been out of combat for 30-60 seconds their cast time could be fairly short.. Forcing the rezzer to purposefully remove themself from the action for the chance to rez another PC. A battle rez would also cost the Rezzer 25-40% mana or ~50% health Brief dazed/silence penalty. I think it would be cool for the veil and souls to play a role in a battle rez as well. Maybe both the healer, and the dead player have to sacrifice a captured soul fragment, or a fragment of their own soul to the Veil as a bribe to release their soul back into their body on the battle field.
2. Regular rez after the fighting, or if the rezzer chooses to jump out of the fight and take the time to rez. Still requires a soul fragment sacrifice from the dead player. Faster cast time. Slightly less mana cost but with stronger Rez sick penalty.
3. "Releasing" will be a pain too. Once you are dead you have to navigate your way to a Stabilizer where the strenght of the veil is much weaker. Once at the Stabilizer a healer or npc can channel your body to that area where you can rejoin your body with rez sickness and durability loss on your gear. blah blah blah when you have recovered you can look at getting back to the front lines. Maybe you reanimate with a random mutation from you encounter with the veil that takes time to wear off, or effort to reverse.
Also the last one ... speaking as a healer im having trouble envisioning a situation where i would and could use that. Hard to pull off in a battle, and unnecessary after a battle.
I often play healer as well. The design goal here was to make it difficult, expensive and a real pain in the neck.. but still quite heroic and potentially something that could turn a battle. It is way too early to pick those mechanical values (as you have stated) but somehow I feel like it clothes the ideas in a comfortable fabric for viewing.
Doesn't matter what you think you're saying taldier, but everything you say is making huge assumptions about daoc players and their motives, there are a lot of things that won't work from daoc but it would be STUPID to not take the good things from daoc and see how they interact in cu because maybe they work better than they did in DAOC?? Who knows ?? No one will know until like beta 2 lol
Originally posted by Niix_Ozek Doesn't matter what you think you're saying taldier, but everything you say is making huge assumptions about daoc players and their motives, there are a lot of things that won't work from daoc but it would be STUPID to not take the good things from daoc and see how they interact in cu because maybe they work better than they did in DAOC?? Who knows ?? No one will know until like beta 2 lol
Originally posted by Niix_Ozek Doesn't matter what you think you're saying taldier, but everything you say is making huge assumptions about daoc players and their motives, there are a lot of things that won't work from daoc but it would be STUPID to not take the good things from daoc and see how they interact in cu because maybe they work better than they did in DAOC?? Who knows ?? No one will know until like beta 2 lol
I'm actually not making assumptions about anyone. You'll note my constant use of qualifiers like "some" when I post. I'm not talking about DAOC players, so dont try to pretend I am just so you can act self-righteous.
I'm talking about a specific subset of DAOC players (i.e. you). I dont need to make assumptions because you've made it pretty clear in your posts that for any issue that comes up, having anything work in any way thats different from DAOC is unacceptable to you.
You dont want to take good concepts from DAOC. You want to take everything from DAOC in the same form that it was in DAOC. And you and a couple others have been very vocal in bashing the ideas of anyone who blasphemes against the almighty perfect DAOC, even when its MJ himself throwing out new ideas.
Originally posted by Niix_Ozek Doesn't matter what you think you're saying taldier, but everything you say is making huge assumptions about daoc players and their motives, there are a lot of things that won't work from daoc but it would be STUPID to not take the good things from daoc and see how they interact in cu because maybe they work better than they did in DAOC?? Who knows ?? No one will know until like beta 2 lol
I'm actually not making assumptions about anyone. You'll note my constant use of qualifiers like "some" when I post. I'm not talking about DAOC players, so dont try to pretend I am just so you can act self-righteous.
I'm talking about a specific subset of DAOC players (i.e. you). I dont need to make assumptions because you've made it pretty clear in your posts that for any issue that comes up, having anything work in any way thats different from DAOC is unacceptable to you.
You dont want to take good concepts from DAOC. You want to take everything from DAOC in the same form that it was in DAOC. And you and a couple others have been very vocal in bashing the ideas of anyone who blasphemes against the almighty perfect DAOC, even when its MJ himself throwing out new ideas.
Be nice Taldier. Just because I agree doesn't mean you need to be quite so sharp in your analysis.
When making any system for this game, we must consider RVR, CRAFTING, BUILDING. This is the core things that make this game fun for its fans. Any mechanic should enhance these.
my suggestion is to not worry to much about the actual REZ process. make healers able to rez, but make it hard to do, long cast times, easy to intturupt. even make it out of combat rezing only. nothing special here. Effectively, only good for end fight clean up. If you die in a active fight, you have to go back to a spawn point
What I want to see is the spawn point be a a structure you build in the RVR battle zone. It can be built in an RVR zone using a build plot with the assistance of crafters. When players die, they return to the closest built rez site. if there is none, then there could be a default spawn, but i suggest if this happens, you can spawn back in town. I would make it so crafters need to stay close and actively do something to the structure to keep it running
it enhances RVR, because a rez point is important, and it gives players something else to defend/attack instead of joining a zerg. It ups the complexity level of RVR
i enhances crafting since it gives crafters something to do directly in RVR. It plays well with the idea that crafters must be present and protected in RVR . It makes crafting required for RVR
it enhances building because it gives you more things to build.
----
I have heard some talk about souls, sounds boring.
I have heard about rezing into the veil, might be interesting, but seems to serve no purpose in enhancing RVR, crafting, and certainly, building. but since the veil is important to MJ, I will make this suggestion..... Use my same ideas. but instead of of spawning back at spawn, you have to return to a crafted or default rez point in the veil. Instead of fighting for a rez in the veil, you fight your way back to spawn against potential veil classes. If you die in the veil, you start stacking on rez sickness, or some other penalty. this gives solo veil classes something to do that can be very annoying and devestating to RVR activities.
What I want to see is the spawn point be a a structure you build in the RVR battle zone. It can be built in an RVR zone using a build plot with the assistance of crafters. When players die, they return to the closest built rez site. if there is none, then there could be a default spawn, but i suggest if this happens, you can spawn back in town. I would make it so crafters need to stay close and actively do something to the structure to keep it running
Exactly the reason for my suggestion. When venturing deep into enemy territory, players who are smart about building these "respawn points" will still have a way to reinforce, and it gives crafters another interesting type of structure to build.
gimmie a link so i can go back ya up.. never heard of the freddy forums
you know, I believe in my rough idea, that is, the idea of a buildable structure strongly enough that I think what I should do it make a concept video showing it. This is how ideas get noticed and convince the masses
What I want to see is the spawn point be a a structure you build in the RVR battle zone. It can be built in an RVR zone using a build plot with the assistance of crafters. When players die, they return to the closest built rez site. if there is none, then there could be a default spawn, but i suggest if this happens, you can spawn back in town. I would make it so crafters need to stay close and actively do something to the structure to keep it running
Exactly the reason for my suggestion. When venturing deep into enemy territory, players who are smart about building these "respawn points" will still have a way to reinforce, and it gives crafters another interesting type of structure to build.
Its worth considering that this could give the defenders too much of an advantage, and create the exact same sort of play we want to avoid.
Basically every single castle or town or whatever would have one or more of these built inside it. So not only does it encourage the "run into the mob and die so you can rez inside" mentality. But it also means that in order to effectively attack youre practically required to build your own walled area with a spawn inside somewhere nearby.
In short, you cant just have crafters building spawnpoints anywhere or else you just get rez point zerging with everyone running right off the pad and back into the battle with almost no delay (on the defender side at least and potentially on both).
In short, you cant just have crafters building spawnpoints anywhere or else you just get rez point zerging with everyone running right off the pad and back into the battle with almost no delay (on the defender side at least and potentially on both).
You're assuming that these spawn points will be permanent and easily constructed.
Though there will likely be permanent ones, I highly doubt player constructed spawn points will be as uber as you are assuming.
Already accounted for in my suggestion. I want a limit to how frequently you can ress people using the respawn points. If you have a keep with a Healer's House and lots of people die at the same time, only a few of them would get to respawn at the Healer's due to its limits. The rest would have to respawn further away.
Don't know how often it should be able to do it. Maybe one guy per 30 secs. Maybe more, maybe less. It depends. There might also be different quality Healer's Houses. And as mentioned there probably needs to be a mechanic to prevent people from spamming too many HHs in the same area.
An interesting thing for stealthers to do could also be sabotaging HHs.
Already accounted for in my suggestion. I want a limit to how frequently you can ress people using the respawn points. If you have a keep with a Healer's House and lots of people die at the same time, only a few of them would get to respawn at the Healer's due to its limits. The rest would have to respawn further away.
Don't know how often it should be able to do it. Maybe one guy per 30 secs. Maybe more, maybe less. It depends. There might also be different quality Healer's Houses. And as mentioned there probably needs to be a mechanic to prevent people from spamming too many HHs in the same area.
An interesting thing for stealthers to do could also be sabotaging HHs.
Heres a potential twist, what if you can just respawn at something inside your house? It would be much more easily controlled for a walled area of any given size by the number of building plots inside.
Then the defenders who actually lived in a town or keep could respawn inside, but other players of the same realm would respawn at their own nearby towns and have to travel back to the siege.
It also goes along with MJ's idea that building homes in contested territory should have advantages.
That could also be interesting. It could also work in tandem with the HHs. If your home is near, maybe it's best to ress there. If not, perhaps the HH if it isn't "on cooldown." (No town should be without one!)
Would give more incentive to build your home closer to the front, if that's a behaviour CSE want to see. It kind of depends on what role(s) personal housing should have in the game.
Comments
You are probably correct, but I have wasted way too much of my life writing spell books not to take crack at it. So here goes. Unbalanced? Likely. Flawed? Certainly.
TL:DR - Three resurrection spells for consideration.
Resurrection
Target: One PC of your Realm
Range: Touch
Casting Time: 10 seconds (channeled, interruptible)
Cost: 30% of caster’s health and mana
Cooldown: 15 seconds
Description: The healer lays hands on Realm mate while invoking the divine and supernatural powers bestowed on her by knowledge, grace and connection to the Emissaries to revive her fallen mate at the healer’s present location with 40% of the target’s maximum health and mana. Skill cannot be used in combat or target a burned corpse. Casting, cost and resulting target vigor can be modified by enchantments and healer progression.
Battle Resurrection
Target: One PC of your Realm
Range: 40 meters
Casting Time: 20 seconds (channeled, interruptible)
Cost: 70% of caster’s health and mana
Cooldown: 10 minutes
Description: The healer channels the grace of the Emissaries from a distance upon on a fallen Realm mate to revive the PC at the target’s present location with 40% of the target’s maximum health and mana. Skill may be used in combat, but not upon a burned corpse. Casting, cost and resulting target vigor can be modified by enchantments and healer progression.
Mass Battle Resurrection
Target: Up to 10 PCs of your Realm
Range: Circular area of effect defined by perimeter with radius extending 15 meters from the caster
Casting Time: 40 seconds (channeled, interruptible)
Cost: 100% of caster’s health and mana
Cooldown: 4 hours
Description: The healer makes the ultimate sacrifice of their lives for the greater glory of the Realm, reviving PCs at the target’s present location with 40% of the target’s maximum health and mana. Skill may be used in combat, but not upon a burned corpse. Casting, cost and resulting target vigor can be modified by enchantments and healer progression. Upon death, the healer is instantly transported to the Veil to fight its monstrosities at full vigor. If still alive after ten minutes, the healer is transported back to the spot of invocation at full vigor. If defeated in the Veil, the healer is sent to a bind point and suffers with resurrection sickness for ten minutes.
For what its worth, i like it. Obviously the devil lies in the detail of things like how the game determines when someone is in combat and how difficult it will be to burn a corpse and prevent a later rezzing.
Also the last one ... speaking as a healer im having trouble envisioning a situation where i would and could use that. Hard to pull off in a battle, and unnecessary after a battle.
Only partially thought out ideas, but the core elements are there. Curious to hear what you guys think.
A rez during a battle should be possible but several criteria should have to be met. In most situations it should make more sense for healers to have to wait until the end of the fight/push/retreat to rez the fallen and regroup. When you die your soul is captured by the Veil and you have a whole mess of new problems to deal with until you can be reanimated or are rejoined with your corporeal body. You cannot see the battle field, you have to deal with VW/VS, and have to navigate through the hostilities of the Veil. I envision 3 ways to reanimate.
1 Rez from rezzer in combat,
2 Rez from rezzer out of combat
3 Travel through the Veil to a stabilizer-
------------------------------
1. Battle rez should have significant cost. Both time and health/stats/mana. Durring a fight cast time is drastically longer (10-15 seconds) if the rezzer has recently casted an offensive spell, been attacked, or had an offensive spell cast on them. If the rezzer has been out of combat for 30-60 seconds their cast time could be fairly short.. Forcing the rezzer to purposefully remove themself from the action for the chance to rez another PC. A battle rez would also cost the Rezzer 25-40% mana or ~50% health Brief dazed/silence penalty. I think it would be cool for the veil and souls to play a role in a battle rez as well. Maybe both the healer, and the dead player have to sacrifice a captured soul fragment, or a fragment of their own soul to the Veil as a bribe to release their soul back into their body on the battle field.
2. Regular rez after the fighting, or if the rezzer chooses to jump out of the fight and take the time to rez. Still requires a soul fragment sacrifice from the dead player. Faster cast time. Slightly less mana cost but with stronger Rez sick penalty.
3. "Releasing" will be a pain too. Once you are dead you have to navigate your way to a Stabilizer where the strenght of the veil is much weaker. Once at the Stabilizer a healer or npc can channel your body to that area where you can rejoin your body with rez sickness and durability loss on your gear. blah blah blah when you have recovered you can look at getting back to the front lines. Maybe you reanimate with a random mutation from you encounter with the veil that takes time to wear off, or effort to reverse.
I often play healer as well. The design goal here was to make it difficult, expensive and a real pain in the neck.. but still quite heroic and potentially something that could turn a battle. It is way too early to pick those mechanical values (as you have stated) but somehow I feel like it clothes the ideas in a comfortable fabric for viewing.
Congrats on your first post! I think these are some great ideas. I especially like the "soul fragment" piece. I wish I had thought of it!
Ozek - DAOC
Niix - Other games that sucked
Or earlier for some of us...
Thinks will be tweaked and adjusted throughout development
Bickering about 3 or 5 or 10 sec res is pointless
Ozek - DAOC
Niix - Other games that sucked
I'm actually not making assumptions about anyone. You'll note my constant use of qualifiers like "some" when I post. I'm not talking about DAOC players, so dont try to pretend I am just so you can act self-righteous.
I'm talking about a specific subset of DAOC players (i.e. you). I dont need to make assumptions because you've made it pretty clear in your posts that for any issue that comes up, having anything work in any way thats different from DAOC is unacceptable to you.
You dont want to take good concepts from DAOC. You want to take everything from DAOC in the same form that it was in DAOC. And you and a couple others have been very vocal in bashing the ideas of anyone who blasphemes against the almighty perfect DAOC, even when its MJ himself throwing out new ideas.
Be nice Taldier. Just because I agree doesn't mean you need to be quite so sharp in your analysis.
Just my thoughts on this, a slight different take
When making any system for this game, we must consider RVR, CRAFTING, BUILDING. This is the core things that make this game fun for its fans. Any mechanic should enhance these.
my suggestion is to not worry to much about the actual REZ process. make healers able to rez, but make it hard to do, long cast times, easy to intturupt. even make it out of combat rezing only. nothing special here. Effectively, only good for end fight clean up. If you die in a active fight, you have to go back to a spawn point
What I want to see is the spawn point be a a structure you build in the RVR battle zone. It can be built in an RVR zone using a build plot with the assistance of crafters. When players die, they return to the closest built rez site. if there is none, then there could be a default spawn, but i suggest if this happens, you can spawn back in town. I would make it so crafters need to stay close and actively do something to the structure to keep it running
it enhances RVR, because a rez point is important, and it gives players something else to defend/attack instead of joining a zerg. It ups the complexity level of RVR
i enhances crafting since it gives crafters something to do directly in RVR. It plays well with the idea that crafters must be present and protected in RVR . It makes crafting required for RVR
it enhances building because it gives you more things to build.
----
I have heard some talk about souls, sounds boring.
I have heard about rezing into the veil, might be interesting, but seems to serve no purpose in enhancing RVR, crafting, and certainly, building. but since the veil is important to MJ, I will make this suggestion..... Use my same ideas. but instead of of spawning back at spawn, you have to return to a crafted or default rez point in the veil. Instead of fighting for a rez in the veil, you fight your way back to spawn against potential veil classes. If you die in the veil, you start stacking on rez sickness, or some other penalty. this gives solo veil classes something to do that can be very annoying and devestating to RVR activities.
Exactly the reason for my suggestion. When venturing deep into enemy territory, players who are smart about building these "respawn points" will still have a way to reinforce, and it gives crafters another interesting type of structure to build.
gimmie a link so i can go back ya up.. never heard of the freddy forums
you know, I believe in my rough idea, that is, the idea of a buildable structure strongly enough that I think what I should do it make a concept video showing it. This is how ideas get noticed and convince the masses
http://forums.freddyshouse.com/forums/camelot-unchained.296/
Mostly Europeans but FH was a pretty active DAoC community during its heyday.
Is that purposely ironic?
Its worth considering that this could give the defenders too much of an advantage, and create the exact same sort of play we want to avoid.
Basically every single castle or town or whatever would have one or more of these built inside it. So not only does it encourage the "run into the mob and die so you can rez inside" mentality. But it also means that in order to effectively attack youre practically required to build your own walled area with a spawn inside somewhere nearby.
In short, you cant just have crafters building spawnpoints anywhere or else you just get rez point zerging with everyone running right off the pad and back into the battle with almost no delay (on the defender side at least and potentially on both).
You're assuming that these spawn points will be permanent and easily constructed.
Though there will likely be permanent ones, I highly doubt player constructed spawn points will be as uber as you are assuming.
Already accounted for in my suggestion. I want a limit to how frequently you can ress people using the respawn points. If you have a keep with a Healer's House and lots of people die at the same time, only a few of them would get to respawn at the Healer's due to its limits. The rest would have to respawn further away.
Don't know how often it should be able to do it. Maybe one guy per 30 secs. Maybe more, maybe less. It depends. There might also be different quality Healer's Houses. And as mentioned there probably needs to be a mechanic to prevent people from spamming too many HHs in the same area.
An interesting thing for stealthers to do could also be sabotaging HHs.
Heres a potential twist, what if you can just respawn at something inside your house? It would be much more easily controlled for a walled area of any given size by the number of building plots inside.
Then the defenders who actually lived in a town or keep could respawn inside, but other players of the same realm would respawn at their own nearby towns and have to travel back to the siege.
It also goes along with MJ's idea that building homes in contested territory should have advantages.
That could also be interesting. It could also work in tandem with the HHs. If your home is near, maybe it's best to ress there. If not, perhaps the HH if it isn't "on cooldown." (No town should be without one!)
Would give more incentive to build your home closer to the front, if that's a behaviour CSE want to see. It kind of depends on what role(s) personal housing should have in the game.