Originally posted by kullninja ok I am getting sick with all of this wow clones bull crap wow is a everquest clone!!. It started with everquest not wow so please stop referring every game that comes out is a wow clone not true it is everquest.
Asheron's Call 2 = actually in many ways. But most gamers these days only know WoW.
you can go even harder on the troll factor and say that blizzard, cause they couldnt get the warhammer franchise, cloned everything from there for warcraft and WoW.
People have idea's and run with them which is great. sometimes they are implemented poorly, sometime not. WoW managed to get a lot of ideas from others at the start and then growing over the years to stay current with certain parts of game design. as we all know WoW is starting to look old now, but this doesnt stop the fact that they have implemented ideas well.
Originally posted by laserit This thread is a clone of many that came before it.
True, but what the heck...
OP, people use 'WOW clone' because more people are familiar with WOW than with EQ. The point is not to create some historical origin for the style but to quickly relay the style or design of a game in as few words possible.
Aaaand because it's more accurate. SWTOR and AoC are WoW clones. They have almost NOTHING to do with EQ.
It depends on your point of comparison. If you just look at the fantasy-themed level-based class-restricted MMOs, then EQ is very different from the titles mentioned. If you look at the wider spectrum of MMOs, then the titles mentioned are very similar to EQ.
There isn't a "right" or "wrong" way to play, if you want to use a screwdriver to put nails into wood, have at it, simply don't complain when the guy next to you with the hammer is doing it much better and easier. - Allein "Graphics are often supplied by Engines that (some) MMORPG's are built in" - Spuffyre
Originally posted by spookydom It's happening again?..........IT'S HAPPENING AGAIN!!!!! NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
/Liked
There isn't a "right" or "wrong" way to play, if you want to use a screwdriver to put nails into wood, have at it, simply don't complain when the guy next to you with the hammer is doing it much better and easier. - Allein "Graphics are often supplied by Engines that (some) MMORPG's are built in" - Spuffyre
indeed wow took many things from EQ (not only) and implement them even BETTER than in original games.
on the other side, wow clones are taking things from wow but implement them much worse than wow is for itself. even after 10 years they cant implement wow features in newest games in a better way
^This.
For example, WoW invented the dungon finder. Love it or hate it, no game (except Rift after a few itterations) has been able to implement it properly.
I am 99.9% sure that Blizzard stole the dungeon finder. Can't remember the game at the moment.
You would be correct. WoW has never once invented any MMO feature.
It just so happens that a lot of the designers and producers that made WoW were also huge EQ fans. They liked the gear progression and raiding but knew they could improve upon it.
I never played Meridian 59, but I've seen some screenshots and heard people talk about it.
Not even a little. You didn't start getting clones until WoW came out. Each pre WoW MMO was VASTLY different from the other. Which is why those of us who were around back then, and saw just how different games could be from eachother, look at games like LotRO, AoC, SWTOR, and say that they all seem identical.
Originally posted by asmkm22 WoW is an EQ improvement, not clone.
Haha, improvement? By taking out all the good parts and leaving in the garbage, like limited class system, tiered raiding, and a game based entirely on level grinding? Making classes so limited and boring without any kind of proper out of combat functionality? Removing all the social aspects of the game?
Originally posted by asmkm22 WoW is an EQ improvement, not clone.
Haha, improvement? By taking out all the good parts and leaving in the garbage, like limited class system, tiered raiding, and a game based entirely on level grinding? Making classes so limited and boring without any kind of proper out of combat functionality? Removing all the social aspects of the game?
I don't know what game you're talking about, but it's clearly not World of Warcraft. The game hasn't sustained millions of players by "taking out all the good parts and leaving in the garbage." But I'm quite familiar with you as a poster, and you tend to get pretty emotional about your hatred of WoW, so have fun with that.
Originally posted by asmkm22 WoW is an EQ improvement, not clone.
Haha, improvement? By taking out all the good parts and leaving in the garbage, like limited class system, tiered raiding, and a game based entirely on level grinding? Making classes so limited and boring without any kind of proper out of combat functionality? Removing all the social aspects of the game?
Wait, you're saying WoW is a grind... compared to EVERQUEST?
EQ was a bigger damn grinder than all the asian MMOs released in the last 10 years combined! On top of that, you had to group in order to do it! I'm sorry but eliminating the need to group up so you could grind mobs for days at a time, or camp a spot for weeks at a time just to advance your character, isn't 'removing social features'.
Next thing you know people will be claiming it was 'fun' to de-level because you died due to your internet crapping out in the middle of a fight. *shakes head*
It's a sad day indeed when a family is too afraid of reprisals to publicly thank somebody for saving their lives.
WoW is a fun game but popularity doesn't equal better, it just means more people like it. I use the same idea with McDonald's. It's horrible for you but widely popular and good to a lot of people. Does that make it better than a burger at a restraunt?
I personally don't think WoW is an EQ clone because if it had been we would have a better slew of titles now. I don't think that's because WoW is bad but because it's popularity caused other companies to copy one model instead of doing something original.
It's taken a while but it's balancing out. Took to few years more though
Originally posted by DavisFlight Originally posted by slickbizzleOriginally posted by doodphaceOriginally posted by Manoliosindeed wow took many things from EQ (not only) and implement them even BETTER than in original games.on the other side, wow clones are taking things from wow but implement them much worse than wow is for itself. even after 10 years they cant implement wow features in newest games in a better way
^This.For example, WoW invented the dungon finder. Love it or hate it, no game (except Rift after a few itterations) has been able to implement it properly.I am 99.9% sure that Blizzard stole the dungeon finder. Can't remember the game at the moment.You would be correct. WoW has never once invented any MMO feature. Ok, then, what MMO had a dungeon finder before WoW?
Since you so confidently declare that slickbizzle is correct in stating that WoW did not invent the dungeon finder you should have no problem proving it.
You would be correct. WoW has never once invented any MMO feature.
Goes to show how much quality matters (compared to innovation.)
Although honestly I don't really know which game did WOW's specific style of Dungeon Finder or Phasing or LFR or Auction House first.
Not saying those games didn't exist but with AH for example you have things like Ragnarok's player shops and EVE's stations, but I don't know of a global AH done in WOW's style pre-WOW.
Same deal with the Dungeon Finder: you can certainly point to games with matchmaking prior to WOW (Blizzard's own War3 was the state of the art matchmaking implementation for a while,) but applied to group-finding in an MMORPG? I never played one.
If we struggle to portray Blizzard in the least innovative light, then sure we can quickly gloss over implementation details. The Wright Brothers were a bunch of uncreative garbage who simply rode the coattails of whoever first invented motorized travel vehicles...right?
"What is truly revealing is his implication that believing something to be true is the same as it being true. [continue]" -John Oliver
EQ *clone* may be a bit hyperbolic, but WoW definitely followed along the trajectory that EQ established. I wonder what the MMO world would look like if they tried to expand on what UO or AC started, instead...
Well, almost everything is so much better in WOW. EQ is one old game and even with old graphic he has optimization problem. Lag, strange combat, bad sound, bad lore. Do not compare this 2 games at all, WOW is Mercedes and EQ something like Yugo
Originally posted by asmkm22 WoW is an EQ improvement, not clone.
Haha, improvement? By taking out all the good parts and leaving in the garbage, like limited class system, tiered raiding, and a game based entirely on level grinding? Making classes so limited and boring without any kind of proper out of combat functionality? Removing all the social aspects of the game?
Wait, you're saying WoW is a grind... compared to EVERQUEST?
That's not what I said at all, good lord, redeading comprehension is your friend.
I said they left in the bad parts of EQ, aka, making the entire game about level grinding. I didn't say WoW was more of grind, I said it had level grinding, with the level cap going up with each useless expansion.
But if I had to pick, I'd pick the EQ level grind any day over the mindless idiotic WoW quest grinding.
At least EQ had an honest grind, that encouraged you to interact with and work with other players. WoW tries to pretty up its treadmill with shallow boring repeating quests where you just follow a blinking line on the ground and ignore all the other players. It's insulting. They make you jump through hoops before they screw you. At least EQ just screwed you.
Originally posted by Aelious WoW is a fun game but popularity doesn't equal better, it just means more people like it. I use the same idea with McDonald's. It's horrible for you but widely popular and good to a lot of people. Does that make it better than a burger at a restraunt?
If the 'restaurant' is a low-end dive where the cook never washes his hands and you have mouse dropping everywhere, then McDonald's is miles better. This analogy always amuses me since it automatically assumes that the other games are superior quality than WoW. They fail to take into account that to many, many people the 'old school' games feel like Food Poisoning Diner.
Comments
Asheron's Call 2 = actually in many ways. But most gamers these days only know WoW.
you can go even harder on the troll factor and say that blizzard, cause they couldnt get the warhammer franchise, cloned everything from there for warcraft and WoW.
People have idea's and run with them which is great. sometimes they are implemented poorly, sometime not. WoW managed to get a lot of ideas from others at the start and then growing over the years to stay current with certain parts of game design. as we all know WoW is starting to look old now, but this doesnt stop the fact that they have implemented ideas well.
It depends on your point of comparison. If you just look at the fantasy-themed level-based class-restricted MMOs, then EQ is very different from the titles mentioned. If you look at the wider spectrum of MMOs, then the titles mentioned are very similar to EQ.
There isn't a "right" or "wrong" way to play, if you want to use a screwdriver to put nails into wood, have at it, simply don't complain when the guy next to you with the hammer is doing it much better and easier. - Allein
"Graphics are often supplied by Engines that (some) MMORPG's are built in" - Spuffyre
/Liked
There isn't a "right" or "wrong" way to play, if you want to use a screwdriver to put nails into wood, have at it, simply don't complain when the guy next to you with the hammer is doing it much better and easier. - Allein
"Graphics are often supplied by Engines that (some) MMORPG's are built in" - Spuffyre
You would be correct. WoW has never once invented any MMO feature.
It just so happens that a lot of the designers and producers that made WoW were also huge EQ fans. They liked the gear progression and raiding but knew they could improve upon it.
Jeffrey Kaplan and Rob Pardo being the most notable of the bunch.
If you are going to use the word 'wow clone' then you might as well know that WoW copied a lot of elements from EQ.
Is EQ a Meridian 59 clone?
I never played Meridian 59, but I've seen some screenshots and heard people talk about it.
Not even a little. You didn't start getting clones until WoW came out. Each pre WoW MMO was VASTLY different from the other. Which is why those of us who were around back then, and saw just how different games could be from eachother, look at games like LotRO, AoC, SWTOR, and say that they all seem identical.
You make me like charity
Haha, improvement? By taking out all the good parts and leaving in the garbage, like limited class system, tiered raiding, and a game based entirely on level grinding? Making classes so limited and boring without any kind of proper out of combat functionality? Removing all the social aspects of the game?
I don't know what game you're talking about, but it's clearly not World of Warcraft. The game hasn't sustained millions of players by "taking out all the good parts and leaving in the garbage." But I'm quite familiar with you as a poster, and you tend to get pretty emotional about your hatred of WoW, so have fun with that.
You make me like charity
Crazy thing is that an 04 account started this, not a 2013
Wait, you're saying WoW is a grind... compared to EVERQUEST?
EQ was a bigger damn grinder than all the asian MMOs released in the last 10 years combined! On top of that, you had to group in order to do it! I'm sorry but eliminating the need to group up so you could grind mobs for days at a time, or camp a spot for weeks at a time just to advance your character, isn't 'removing social features'.
Next thing you know people will be claiming it was 'fun' to de-level because you died due to your internet crapping out in the middle of a fight. *shakes head*
It's a sad day indeed when a family is too afraid of reprisals to publicly thank somebody for saving their lives.
I personally don't think WoW is an EQ clone because if it had been we would have a better slew of titles now. I don't think that's because WoW is bad but because it's popularity caused other companies to copy one model instead of doing something original.
It's taken a while but it's balancing out. Took to few years more though
I am 99.9% sure that Blizzard stole the dungeon finder. Can't remember the game at the moment.
You would be correct. WoW has never once invented any MMO feature.
Ok, then, what MMO had a dungeon finder before WoW?
Since you so confidently declare that slickbizzle is correct in stating that WoW did not invent the dungeon finder you should have no problem proving it.
Goes to show how much quality matters (compared to innovation.)
Although honestly I don't really know which game did WOW's specific style of Dungeon Finder or Phasing or LFR or Auction House first.
Not saying those games didn't exist but with AH for example you have things like Ragnarok's player shops and EVE's stations, but I don't know of a global AH done in WOW's style pre-WOW.
Same deal with the Dungeon Finder: you can certainly point to games with matchmaking prior to WOW (Blizzard's own War3 was the state of the art matchmaking implementation for a while,) but applied to group-finding in an MMORPG? I never played one.
If we struggle to portray Blizzard in the least innovative light, then sure we can quickly gloss over implementation details. The Wright Brothers were a bunch of uncreative garbage who simply rode the coattails of whoever first invented motorized travel vehicles...right?
"What is truly revealing is his implication that believing something to be true is the same as it being true. [continue]" -John Oliver
That's not what I said at all, good lord, redeading comprehension is your friend.
I said they left in the bad parts of EQ, aka, making the entire game about level grinding. I didn't say WoW was more of grind, I said it had level grinding, with the level cap going up with each useless expansion.
But if I had to pick, I'd pick the EQ level grind any day over the mindless idiotic WoW quest grinding.
At least EQ had an honest grind, that encouraged you to interact with and work with other players. WoW tries to pretty up its treadmill with shallow boring repeating quests where you just follow a blinking line on the ground and ignore all the other players. It's insulting. They make you jump through hoops before they screw you. At least EQ just screwed you.
Fixed that for you, the primary reason for WoW's success.
Vanilla EQ didn't have instances at all.
So they're not the same.
when I think wow clone I think game where you have a leveling bit and then you sit in city / fleet whatever while you queue to go a
Which isn't EQ at all.
Closest game to EQ Is probably daoc, not wow.
If the 'restaurant' is a low-end dive where the cook never washes his hands and you have mouse dropping everywhere, then McDonald's is miles better. This analogy always amuses me since it automatically assumes that the other games are superior quality than WoW. They fail to take into account that to many, many people the 'old school' games feel like Food Poisoning Diner.