to answer the OP's question yes gold BC would probably bring more people into the game. Whether they would stay is a another question. But given the premise that they would get them every hour, they might.
Whether it would be good or not I have mixed feelings but if they are paying customers why not? most pvp types would see them as meat to the grinder but it would skew the killboards unless gold battlecruisers had a nominal value.
If they did have a nominal value then I can't see that any harm is done.
I sometimes make spelling and grammar errors but I don't pretend it's because I'm using a phone
Originally posted by RavingRabbid I play both Eve Online and World of tanks. What works in one game doesnt work in another. Eve is a far more complex game than World of Tanks is. If you were to introduce "gold" ships in Eve you would ruin the economy, be boring to see millions of same ships fighting, ruin manufacturing runs etc etc. World of tanks gold tanks work because you arent in the same map contantly with the same players as the game ends at some wherein Eve online it doesnt.
Now tell me : you would not like to hotdrop a roam made of those ships ? Would it be better sitting on pos , spinning ship in station or roam without getting any fight ?
In a game that considers the player driven economy a strong point, I'm a bit skeptical of the original post. The main reasons that cross my mind have already been mentioned, but I'll reiterate them: the game has player driven economy and this service is already provided by player corps.
The first point could be argued. By this, i mean that depending on how optimistic you are, you might be able to project that player crafted module sales would increase and that players would more readily engage in PvP and escalate to player created ships when they wanted more 'power'. This is all speculation, much like the counter that sales of ships would drop. However, it seems that historically, if a lower risk method were available to people, they would take it and thus I would tend to side with the idea that this would be harmful to the economy.
Another thing that history has tended to show is that if there is a loophole, it will be exploited. If these ships can fit anything besides 'civilian' modules (thus negating any module sale increase), then I'd imagine they would have to be salvageable. If so, I'd imagine you would see on an hourly (or 2, or 'x' respawn interval) mass self-destruct/mutual destruction followed by a rapid salvage. What would the impact be for non-PvP activities (such as mining) with this new source of materials. Maybe not much, but still seems to run counter to the reasons I joined the game at least.
To the second point: I've been mostly in small corps and, even then, mostly high-sec. I've spent a fair amount of time under wardec and my corps have always offered to replace any losses. Maybe I'm just extremely lucky with the corps I joined and 'reimbursement policies' are harder to come by for others. I can only speak from my experience so your mileage may vary.
All in all, there is a place for an idea like this. I just don't think it is in EvE. This game has targeted its niche and managed a remarkable lifespan while other games have been developed and disappeared or gone to life support. I'm not saying there is no room for improvement because obviously there is always something that could be done better. I just don't think this idea, at least as I see it at this time, would be an improvement.
I hope that you can still find enjoyment in EvE without the 'gold battlecruisers', but if not, best of luck with the games you've backed. While I don't see anything that would pull me from EvE, it is nice to see more development in sci-fi/spaceships.
edit: Looking at my response, I didn't really answer the question that subject asked. So, yes, free ships would likely add more casual players and produce a short term spike in subs, however, for a game with a negligible 'box price', I'd be more concerned about retention and player churn. I can't begin to predict what could be expected except to say I don't think the net results would be positive and feel the longevity of the game would suffer. Again though, that's just my opinion.
edit: for the typos!
I understand your concern about economy and missing opportunity cost for t1 ship builders, epecially battlecruisers.
Can you tell please what is the profit made for building a battlecruiser and selling it in jita those days ?
Originally posted by apanz3r Originally posted by RavingRabbidI play both Eve Online and World of tanks. What works in one game doesnt work in another. Eve is a far more complex game than World of Tanks is. If you were to introduce "gold" ships in Eve you would ruin the economy, be boring to see millions of same ships fighting, ruin manufacturing runs etc etc. World of tanks gold tanks work because you arent in the same map contantly with the same players as the game ends at some wherein Eve online it doesnt.
Now tell me : you would not like to hotdrop a roam made of those ships ? Would it be better sitting on pos , spinning ship in station or roam without getting any fight ?
You're not going to get people on this forum to agree with your position. Free battle cruisers for players is the opposite of pretty much all of Eve's game play. It would do no good to bring in a bunch of casual players if the people who have been paying CCP for years left.
I can not remember winning or losing a single debate on the internet.
Originally posted by RavingRabbidI play both Eve Online and World of tanks. What works in one game doesnt work in another. Eve is a far more complex game than World of Tanks is. If you were to introduce "gold" ships in Eve you would ruin the economy, be boring to see millions of same ships fighting, ruin manufacturing runs etc etc. World of tanks gold tanks work because you arent in the same map contantly with the same players as the game ends at some wherein Eve online it doesnt.
Now tell me : you would not like to hotdrop a roam made of those ships ? Would it be better sitting on pos , spinning ship in station or roam without getting any fight ?
You're not going to get people on this forum to agree with your position. Free battle cruisers for players is the opposite of pretty much all of Eve's game play. It would do no good to bring in a bunch of casual players if the people who have been paying CCP for years left.
I agree with you. I don't try to convince people to agree with me, i just try to highlight some aspects to give a new angle to the problem because like you said some will rather quit then accept this heresy.
I understand your concern about economy and missing opportunity cost for t1 ship builders, epecially battlecruisers.
Can you tell please what is the profit made for building a battlecruiser and selling it in jita those days ?
I honestly can't. Industry is not my game. But, more importantly, it is someone's game and this mechanics stands to infringe on that. Really, that is only one facet of the economy and a rather specific case to try to make a stand on. While I appreciate your opinion that this would be a good thing, I don't think you effectively demonstrate the value by identifying scenarios, in a vacuum, that you feel demonstrate excusable impact. Its too easy to fall afoul of the law of unintended consequences with such a narrow view and EvE players are nothing if not adept at exploiting the unintended.
Since players/corps already provide this service, the idea sounds like creating a system just for the sake of having a system which, at least to me, is a big red flag. There would have to be a much bigger case then profit margin on a BS in Jita to convince a lot of us.
With that in mind, I would say take your idea and define it a bit more. If you want to do more then just argue then explain how it relates to the various systems in the game. Explain how it is balanced against non-free ships and how to avoid disrupting various systems in the game. An idea of "wouldn't free ships be nice" isn't going to gain much traction. Hell, a more comprehensive proposal would probably have people adding to and refining your idea (though it would certainly still meet opposition).
In my opinion though, if the game were to honestly target casual players, there are probably a lot better ways to spend the resources then introducing the proposed mechanic.
-mklinic
"Do something right, no one remembers. Do something wrong, no one forgets" -from No One Remembers by In Strict Confidence
Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing New Worlds atm
Fools find no pleasure in understanding but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV
Don't just play games, inhabit virtual worlds™
"This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon
If you don't have time to generate the ISK needed to play the parts of the game that you enjoy then go buy a PLEX (your dilemma is the reason why PLEX exists).
Pandas. Pet Battles. Achievements. Zombie dragon mounts. Hey... it's in the lore, it's allowed!
Ya, a planet full of pandas is discovered in WH space who have battling pets. Same with a zombie/dragon planet :P.
Certificates are kind of like Achievements.
Or.... ORRRRRRR... a zombie/plant planet. Eh? EH? Whadda ya think of that one?
There isn't a "right" or "wrong" way to play, if you want to use a screwdriver to put nails into wood, have at it, simply don't complain when the guy next to you with the hammer is doing it much better and easier. - Allein "Graphics are often supplied by Engines that (some) MMORPG's are built in" - Spuffyre
Originally posted by Loktofeit Originally posted by NetSageOriginally posted by ArakaziWhat would bring casual players to eve....?Pandas. Pet Battles. Achievements. Zombie dragon mounts. Hey... it's in the lore, it's allowed!
Ya, a planet full of pandas is discovered in WH space who have battling pets. Same with a zombie/dragon planet :P.Certificates are kind of like Achievements.Or.... ORRRRRRR... a zombie/plant planet. Eh? EH? Whadda ya think of that one?
Oh, come on guys. A zombie, pirate island, wild wild west planet with naked women in mechs.
I can not remember winning or losing a single debate on the internet.
Originally posted by ArakaziWhat would bring casual players to eve....?Pandas. Pet Battles. Achievements. Zombie dragon mounts. Hey... it's in the lore, it's allowed!
Ya, a planet full of pandas is discovered in WH space who have battling pets. Same with a zombie/dragon planet :P.Certificates are kind of like Achievements.
Or.... ORRRRRRR... a zombie/plant planet. Eh? EH? Whadda ya think of that one?
Oh, come on guys. A zombie, pirate island, wild wild west planet with naked women in mechs.
Now that's the kind of thinking we need in game development! Quickly, though - give it a couple of years and everything on that list will be considered taboo.
There isn't a "right" or "wrong" way to play, if you want to use a screwdriver to put nails into wood, have at it, simply don't complain when the guy next to you with the hammer is doing it much better and easier. - Allein "Graphics are often supplied by Engines that (some) MMORPG's are built in" - Spuffyre
Originally posted by ArakaziWhat would bring casual players to eve....?Pandas. Pet Battles. Achievements. Zombie dragon mounts. Hey... it's in the lore, it's allowed!
Ya, a planet full of pandas is discovered in WH space who have battling pets. Same with a zombie/dragon planet :P.Certificates are kind of like Achievements.
Or.... ORRRRRRR... a zombie/plant planet. Eh? EH? Whadda ya think of that one?
Oh, come on guys. A zombie, pirate island, wild wild west planet with naked women in mechs.
Now that's the kind of thinking we need in game development! Quickly, though - give it a couple of years and everything on that list will be considered taboo.
It's easy enough to build yourself up to the point that you can maintain yourself in EVE with a few hours every week that I really don't think this idea would do much to help the game. Those who wanted better ships could get them easily enough, and those simply looking for free stuff would still find the rest of the game uninviting enough that they wouldn't stick around very long. It's a decent enough idea in a vacuum, but it doesn't fit well with what CCP has built up with EVE.
It's easy enough to build yourself up to the point that you can maintain yourself in EVE with a few hours every week that I really don't think this idea would do much to help the game. Those who wanted better ships could get them easily enough, and those simply looking for free stuff would still find the rest of the game uninviting enough that they wouldn't stick around very long. It's a decent enough idea in a vacuum, but it doesn't fit well with what CCP has built up with EVE.
It is relative. Try to loose couple t2 ships per week and not having eve as a second job.
op you're basically asking for a 23/7 standing fleet of 'burn jita'.
it'll never work. you cant have battleships spawn out of thin air.
it won't bring more casuals, it'll ruin the game for casuals and hardcores alike.
Fitting a suicide battlecruisers with t1 have almost 0 costs after insurance and buying this in jita is very convenient. I don;t see any impact here.
I didn;t said battleship out of thin air but battle cruisers. You keep saying it will not work. Why not ? Only reason i can see is that you don;t want to work.
Would "gold battlecruisers" bring more casual players to eve ?
When my time to play eve reduced due to job and family i had no other solution than to stop play eve because the logistic required to make/mantain a hangar filled with ships ready to fight was too much.
I switched to World of Tanks because it was more friendly to casual players.
I would love to return to eve if they would have gold batlecruisers - battlecruisers that spawn in your station like noob ships(with some time restrictions like 1 per hours or so).
No sorry, only my time seems to be today's term of casual, I still like my games somewhat hardcore, but I don't need to rush to get there.
"Walking on stations" or just full avatar characters would bring me in. I tried Eve several time, love all of it's feature's, just me being a spaceship just doesn't click with me.
Would "gold battlecruisers" bring more casual players to eve ?
When my time to play eve reduced due to job and family i had no other solution than to stop play eve because the logistic required to make/mantain a hangar filled with ships ready to fight was too much.
I switched to World of Tanks because it was more friendly to casual players.
I would love to return to eve if they would have gold batlecruisers - battlecruisers that spawn in your station like noob ships(with some time restrictions like 1 per hours or so).
No sorry, only my time seems to be today's term of casual, I still like my games somewhat hardcore, but I don't need to rush to get there.
"Walking on stations" or just full avatar characters would bring me in. I tried Eve several time, love all of it's feature's, just me being a spaceship just doesn't click with me.
How would a battlecruiser modestly fitted would stop you beeing a hardcore player in a t3 ship fitted with faction and officer and killing entire armadas ?
I am glad you like the "walking in station" at, least ccp didn;t 100%wasted the money.
Comments
to answer the OP's question yes gold BC would probably bring more people into the game. Whether they would stay is a another question. But given the premise that they would get them every hour, they might.
Whether it would be good or not I have mixed feelings but if they are paying customers why not? most pvp types would see them as meat to the grinder but it would skew the killboards unless gold battlecruisers had a nominal value.
If they did have a nominal value then I can't see that any harm is done.
I sometimes make spelling and grammar errors but I don't pretend it's because I'm using a phone
Now tell me : you would not like to hotdrop a roam made of those ships ? Would it be better sitting on pos , spinning ship in station or roam without getting any fight ?
I understand your concern about economy and missing opportunity cost for t1 ship builders, epecially battlecruisers.
Can you tell please what is the profit made for building a battlecruiser and selling it in jita those days ?
Haha, huh?
Video game...
That Guild Wars 2 login screen knocked up my wife. Must be the second coming!
You're not going to get people on this forum to agree with your position. Free battle cruisers for players is the opposite of pretty much all of Eve's game play. It would do no good to bring in a bunch of casual players if the people who have been paying CCP for years left.
I can not remember winning or losing a single debate on the internet.
I agree with you. I don't try to convince people to agree with me, i just try to highlight some aspects to give a new angle to the problem because like you said some will rather quit then accept this heresy.
I honestly can't. Industry is not my game. But, more importantly, it is someone's game and this mechanics stands to infringe on that. Really, that is only one facet of the economy and a rather specific case to try to make a stand on. While I appreciate your opinion that this would be a good thing, I don't think you effectively demonstrate the value by identifying scenarios, in a vacuum, that you feel demonstrate excusable impact. Its too easy to fall afoul of the law of unintended consequences with such a narrow view and EvE players are nothing if not adept at exploiting the unintended.
Since players/corps already provide this service, the idea sounds like creating a system just for the sake of having a system which, at least to me, is a big red flag. There would have to be a much bigger case then profit margin on a BS in Jita to convince a lot of us.
With that in mind, I would say take your idea and define it a bit more. If you want to do more then just argue then explain how it relates to the various systems in the game. Explain how it is balanced against non-free ships and how to avoid disrupting various systems in the game. An idea of "wouldn't free ships be nice" isn't going to gain much traction. Hell, a more comprehensive proposal would probably have people adding to and refining your idea (though it would certainly still meet opposition).
In my opinion though, if the game were to honestly target casual players, there are probably a lot better ways to spend the resources then introducing the proposed mechanic.
-mklinic
"Do something right, no one remembers.
Do something wrong, no one forgets"
-from No One Remembers by In Strict Confidence
/end thread
"True friends stab you in the front." | Oscar Wilde
"I need to finish" - Christian Wolff: The Accountant
Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing New Worlds atm
Fools find no pleasure in understanding but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV
Don't just play games, inhabit virtual worlds™
"This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon
What would bring casual players to eve....?
Pandas. Pet Battles. Achievements. Zombie dragon mounts. Hey... it's in the lore, it's allowed!
If you don't have time to generate the ISK needed to play the parts of the game that you enjoy then go buy a PLEX (your dilemma is the reason why PLEX exists).
Ya, a planet full of pandas is discovered in WH space who have battling pets. Same with a zombie/dragon planet :P.
Certificates are kind of like Achievements.
Or.... ORRRRRRR... a zombie/plant planet. Eh? EH? Whadda ya think of that one?
There isn't a "right" or "wrong" way to play, if you want to use a screwdriver to put nails into wood, have at it, simply don't complain when the guy next to you with the hammer is doing it much better and easier. - Allein
"Graphics are often supplied by Engines that (some) MMORPG's are built in" - Spuffyre
Or.... ORRRRRRR... a zombie/plant planet. Eh? EH? Whadda ya think of that one?
Oh, come on guys. A zombie, pirate island, wild wild west planet with naked women in mechs.
I can not remember winning or losing a single debate on the internet.
Now that's the kind of thinking we need in game development! Quickly, though - give it a couple of years and everything on that list will be considered taboo.
There isn't a "right" or "wrong" way to play, if you want to use a screwdriver to put nails into wood, have at it, simply don't complain when the guy next to you with the hammer is doing it much better and easier. - Allein
"Graphics are often supplied by Engines that (some) MMORPG's are built in" - Spuffyre
Maybe this is the secret plan for dust 514
Lol, I had to stop reading here. PLEASE pull more numbers directly from your ass.
It's easy enough to build yourself up to the point that you can maintain yourself in EVE with a few hours every week that I really don't think this idea would do much to help the game. Those who wanted better ships could get them easily enough, and those simply looking for free stuff would still find the rest of the game uninviting enough that they wouldn't stick around very long. It's a decent enough idea in a vacuum, but it doesn't fit well with what CCP has built up with EVE.
Is called projection. Feel free to bring your own projection to make a constructive discussion.
It is relative. Try to loose couple t2 ships per week and not having eve as a second job.
Explain why would devastate the game , which ships would replace , what would be the impact on ship builders how much revenue would they loose etc.
Fitting a suicide battlecruisers with t1 have almost 0 costs after insurance and buying this in jita is very convenient. I don;t see any impact here.
I didn;t said battleship out of thin air but battle cruisers. You keep saying it will not work. Why not ? Only reason i can see is that you don;t want to work.
No sorry, only my time seems to be today's term of casual, I still like my games somewhat hardcore, but I don't need to rush to get there.
"Walking on stations" or just full avatar characters would bring me in. I tried Eve several time, love all of it's feature's, just me being a spaceship just doesn't click with me.
>>cons: high-sec suicide ganking without consequences.
main conseq for suicide gank is sec status loss. battlecruiser loss after insurance is close to 0 anyway and very conenient to replace in high sec
>>cons: economic inflation.
please explain this one . i am opened to listen an eventually accept your theory
>>cons: skill points limitation for newer players in a universe filled with battleships.
please read again, i asked for battle cruisers. is fairly easy to jump in a t1 fitted battlecruisers.
>>or do you also want to fly it with Frigate 1 ?
what are the prereq for BC1 ?
How would a battlecruiser modestly fitted would stop you beeing a hardcore player in a t3 ship fitted with faction and officer and killing entire armadas ?
I am glad you like the "walking in station" at, least ccp didn;t 100%wasted the money.
I just started playing EvE, the second I got that Gnosis Battlescruiser I sold it for 300m Isk.
That has funded everything I needed.