We've removed the healer class - What about the tank as well?

nariusseldon

Originally posted by Quirhid

Originally posted by nariusseldon

Originally posted by Quirhid

 

And like you've seen, it is absurd to have the trinity applied to modern combat. I don't want to see a guy, in a tanktop, with a sledgehammer "holding aggro" and, not using cover or anything, but soaking the damage while the rest of his group is shooting the enemy through him with M16s. Yes, I know its a game, but that shit just ain't right.

What is the problem? You can always add some sci-fi elements to make it sound ok. Something like "nanites inside repair the damage fast" ... it is just dressing.

Now i am not opposed to interesting combat mechanics .. but there is no reason to eliminate ideas just because it does not sound realistic.

No. I'm not opposed to it either, but trinity is already a perversion of combat, and it only makes it worse when it strikes closer to home - when applied to modern combat. It is hard suspend my belief when the game insults my intelligence.

My main point is still that trinity trivializes combat; makes it easy and formulaic.

Two points. First i agree that combat should not be easy. it is obviously that zero challenge is not a lot of fun for many.

However, i disagree on two points .. first formulaic is bad. Second trinity always makes combat easy. The second part is easy to show. There are plenty of WOW hard mode raids that are extremely difficult but also based in trinity. So that is your counter example. Trinity is not always easy. If it is, it is because of the specific tuning. You can very easily (pun intended) making any trinity fight difficult.

Why is formulaic bad? Deus Ex is a fun game to many. Dishonored is a fun game to many. The encounters are very much formulaic in the structure (few path to the objective, a number of guards with patrolling patterns ...) but fun.

The same can be said for trinity type encounter.

Having said that .. trinity is not the only way to do combat, as Diablo, and GW2 has shown.

BadSpock

All games are defined by their mechanics.

For example, Halo has some of the most fun and interest cooperative PvE mechanics in any game I have ever played.

Tanks/healers in such a system would be hilariously awful.

From a MMO perspective, UO seemed to work out pretty darn well, but there was a very soft trinity in place.

Tanking was more an effort in positioning due to the collision detection mechanics.

And with Magery, Archery, even things like Taming/Bards could be used as "support" in a lot of situations.

But I do agree with many of the statements made by others - I just don't think it really "works" in GW2 - it feels so sloppy and random.

Tanking in WoW, back in the day, used to take a very high degree of skill and knowledge. It wasn't really until WOTLK that they completely ruined tanking in WoW.

Healing was made a lot more engaging and fun in Cataclysm than it was ever before, and is the one role that isn't terribly boring (at least in 5-person content) due to all the nerfs/changes to Tanking and DPS rotations.

Moral of the story - as with all things it is 100% about the implementation.

Trinity or no trinity, all about how you do it.

Oh and whomever said EvE doesn't have the Trinity firmly in place is a liar.

True, in many PvE situations you are self-tanking and rep'ing while pumping out the damage (missioning)

But in organized fleet warfare, logistics makes or breaks everything.

BeansnBread

Originally posted by BadSpock

Oh and whomever said EvE doesn't have the Trinity firmly in place is a liar.

True, in many PvE situations you are self-tanking and rep'ing while pumping out the damage (missioning)

But in organized fleet warfare, logistics makes or breaks everything.

Um, that doesn't mean there is a trinity. Where are the agro mechanics for instance? You have logistics ship that repair other ships, sure, but you have those same mechanics in say, GW2.

 

I mean, I could argue GW2 has a trinity at that point as support makes all the difference. It just doesn't come down to a trinity. There are many, many roles in EVE.