Ok here's a curveball to this thread,but relevant.
How do you know WoW,War,Lotro,EQ2 and so on didn't actually launch in a beta phase?Is it because of the number sequence?Was it because they said it was launch and not beta?How do you really know?Was there really much of a difference between open beta and launch?
Honest question,do we really know?
what it's called is irrelevant, it becomes a commercial product the moment a company sells it.
And thus that's makes it relevant.If they make it commercial during open beta or launch...Does it really matter.
The question still set's there.
commercial product = launch, calling it a beta does not make it any less a commercial product.
And the point is...who care's? I mean really,why does it make a difference?WoW had a patch within 1 week of launch,so why does it make a difference if NW does and it's open beta?
That's my point,there really is no difference except names/titles of what the software is.Seem's pretty lame to me.The way I see it,a game can so called launch and actually be in a beta state.People accept the launch title because of what they're told.It could be just slightly more than the open beta code.
Is it really that big of deal?In the end they're all out to get our money,either short term or long term.
I get what you are saying on this. From my understanding, AoC felt like it was still in Closed Beta when it launched.
Yea Rep,I'm just looking at and trying to be non biased.I can see both side's and am just wondering.Is there really much difference at all between open beta/launch.I know I sure didn't feel a difference playing AOC/EQ2 and War.
Open Betas are always near the launch date. When i played DCUO when it went into it's open beta phase, It played just like the launch when it hit it's date. Then after the grace period and I didn't feel like dropping 60 dollars on it to keep playing, I just called it a soft launch as well. It seems really the only part of a Open Beta now is to see if they can keep the game going with tons of people on it.
yea open betas typically go through phases of increasing levels of stress/load testing not so much mechanics/systems testing. and largely reflect the final build
Yea Rep,I'm just looking at and trying to be non biased.I can see both side's and am just wondering.Is there really much difference at all between open beta/launch.I know I sure didn't feel a difference playing AOC/EQ2 and War.
Just forget what it's called, open beta closed beta upside down inside out or green
Once they charged money for it it will be judged by it's consumers as a commercial product god/bad/ugly and the clock is ticking. within a couple weeks to a month you'll know if it does A TOR or not
Yea Rep,I'm just looking at and trying to be non biased.I can see both side's and am just wondering.Is there really much difference at all between open beta/launch.I know I sure didn't feel a difference playing AOC/EQ2 and War.
Just forget what it's called, open beta closed beta upside done inside out or green
Once they charged money for it it will be judged by it's consumers as a commercial product god/bad/ugly and the clock is ticking. within a couple weeks to a month you'll know if it does A TOR or not
Lol if it does a Tor,that's frickin ugly!
Some day I'm going to put a sword through your eye and out the back of your skull!
Yea Rep,I'm just looking at and trying to be non biased.I can see both side's and am just wondering.Is there really much difference at all between open beta/launch.I know I sure didn't feel a difference playing AOC/EQ2 and War.
Just forget what it's called, open beta closed beta upside done inside out or green
Once they charged money for it it will be judged by it's consumers as a commercial product god/bad/ugly and the clock is ticking. within a couple weeks to a month you'll know if it does A TOR or not
The thing is if you discount things like character wipes and commercial transactions...every game that exists is in open beta and Launch is a nonexistent concept or at best arbitrary.
Yea Rep,I'm just looking at and trying to be non biased.I can see both side's and am just wondering.Is there really much difference at all between open beta/launch.I know I sure didn't feel a difference playing AOC/EQ2 and War.
Just forget what it's called, open beta closed beta upside done inside out or green
Once they charged money for it it will be judged by it's consumers as a commercial product god/bad/ugly and the clock is ticking. within a couple weeks to a month you'll know if it does A TOR or not
Lol if it does a Tor,that's frickin ugly!
yea as far as determining weather it's a roaring success that should be within the 3-6 mo range, STO level of meh about 2-3 months, TOR face plant pretty darn quick.
Yea Rep,I'm just looking at and trying to be non biased.I can see both side's and am just wondering.Is there really much difference at all between open beta/launch.I know I sure didn't feel a difference playing AOC/EQ2 and War.
Just forget what it's called, open beta closed beta upside done inside out or green
Once they charged money for it it will be judged by it's consumers as a commercial product god/bad/ugly and the clock is ticking. within a couple weeks to a month you'll know if it does A TOR or not
The thing is if you discount things like character wipes and commercial transactions...every game that exists is in open beta and Launch is a nonexistent concept or at best arbitrary.
Thank you Drak
Some day I'm going to put a sword through your eye and out the back of your skull!
Yea Rep,I'm just looking at and trying to be non biased.I can see both side's and am just wondering.Is there really much difference at all between open beta/launch.I know I sure didn't feel a difference playing AOC/EQ2 and War.
Just forget what it's called, open beta closed beta upside done inside out or green
Once they charged money for it it will be judged by it's consumers as a commercial product god/bad/ugly and the clock is ticking. within a couple weeks to a month you'll know if it does A TOR or not
The thing is if you discount things like character wipes and commercial transactions...every game that exists is in open beta and Launch is a nonexistent concept or at best arbitrary.
Open beta is a hold over term from when it was actually utilized for testing, about 1/2 decade ago it began to transition more to a marketing gimmick than anything that actually tested any significant systems. I can't even remember the last open beta that lased longer than a yr or a closed beta longer than 1.5
EDIT happened around the time all the bubbles burst around the world and all the venture capitalists wanted their $ NOW. Since a lot of the developers back then were dumb enough to get operating capital from the loan sharks of the corporate world. Turbine is an excellent example of this. Once lending dried up Katey bar the door.
Yea Rep,I'm just looking at and trying to be non biased.I can see both side's and am just wondering.Is there really much difference at all between open beta/launch.I know I sure didn't feel a difference playing AOC/EQ2 and War.
Just forget what it's called, open beta closed beta upside done inside out or green
Once they charged money for it it will be judged by it's consumers as a commercial product god/bad/ugly and the clock is ticking. within a couple weeks to a month you'll know if it does A TOR or not
The thing is if you discount things like character wipes and commercial transactions...every game that exists is in open beta and Launch is a nonexistent concept or at best arbitrary.
Open beta is a hold over term from when it was actually utilized for testing, about 1/2 decade ago it began to transition more to a marketing gimmick than anything that actually tested any significant systems. I can't even remember the last open beta that lased longer than a yr or a closed beta longer than 1.5
EDIT happened around the time all the bubbles burst around the world and all the venture capitalists wanted their $ NOW.
I would agree that there are no longer true open betas.Now it's just a marketing term like preview weekend or what have you.Very little testing is actually done now it's just a way to attract consumers.
commercial product = launch, calling it a beta does not make it any less a commercial product.
Then it's a beta commercial product.
and? glad we all agree
I don't know what I'm agreeing on. You keep stating it's a commercial product (which you seem to have a hard on for that word now) and that it's released and nothing more should be said on the subject. Now I just added beta infront of your most favorite word in the universe and you are saying I'm agreeing. I'm not. I'm saying this is a Open Beta phase that is testing how the game works but it has PWI's commercial product in it.
I really don't know how to make it any clearer if the defined terms don't clue you in, sorry maybe some one else here can explain it better.
You're simply repeating yourself, not making anything clearer. You've stated:
"commercial product = launch, calling it beta does not make it any less of a commercial product"
"It launched the moment it charged for the service/box as it is then a commercial transaction."
That is false, as exemplified by prepurchase and preorder sales well before anything is even playable or online. Now, the big thing that you are overlooking is that Beta is not what you are paying for. It is not the full product and not the official launch. They are selling you a pack of perks which includes beta access. If you choose to further spend money once in the beta, that is entirely up to you.
Question: In which betas did players buy points/items during the beta and didn't get those points refunded to their account at release?
@Reploid: All RIFT Beta characters were wiped on February 23rd, 2011.
There isn't a "right" or "wrong" way to play, if you want to use a screwdriver to put nails into wood, have at it, simply don't complain when the guy next to you with the hammer is doing it much better and easier. - Allein "Graphics are often supplied by Engines that (some) MMORPG's are built in" - Spuffyre
commercial product = launch, calling it a beta does not make it any less a commercial product.
Then it's a beta commercial product.
and? glad we all agree
I don't know what I'm agreeing on. You keep stating it's a commercial product (which you seem to have a hard on for that word now) and that it's released and nothing more should be said on the subject. Now I just added beta infront of your most favorite word in the universe and you are saying I'm agreeing. I'm not. I'm saying this is a Open Beta phase that is testing how the game works but it has PWI's commercial product in it.
I really don't know how to make it any clearer if the defined terms don't clue you in, sorry maybe some one else here can explain it better.
You're simply repeating yourself, not making anything clearer. You've stated:
"commercial product = launch, calling it beta does not make it any less of a commercial product"
"It launched the moment it charged for the service/box as it is then a commercial transaction."
That is false, as exemplified by prepurchase and preorder sales well before anything is even playable or online. Now, the big thing that you are overlooking is that Beta is not what you are paying for. It is not the full product and not the official launch. They are selling you a pack of perks which includes beta access. If you choose to further spend money once in the beta, that is entirely up to you.
Question: In which betas did players buy points/items during the beta and didn't get those points refunded to their account at release?
@Reploid: All RIFT OB characters were wiped on February 23rd, 2011.
Actually if you go back and look through (for those that have it archived) the beta forums for those games you can tell almost exactly when the pre-orders went out. That's about the time the low grade backlashes started. As soon as $ is an issue consumers will begin evaluating value/cost. What I'm trying to get across, (unsuccessfully it seems) is that as soon as a company charges $ it no longer has the "cover" of being in testing. The provider can call it closed beta, open beta, launch, lunch, or red. The market evaluation process begins as soon as consumers begin paying.
EDIT: Heck SWTOR didn't even make it 30 days before the player base loss was enough to be mentioned in EA's shareholders meeting. All those players didn't wake up one morning and say hey I don't like this game. It was a cumulative process of evaluating perceived value/cost unique to the individual that took time.
commercial product = launch, calling it a beta does not make it any less a commercial product.
Then it's a beta commercial product.
and? glad we all agree
I don't know what I'm agreeing on. You keep stating it's a commercial product (which you seem to have a hard on for that word now) and that it's released and nothing more should be said on the subject. Now I just added beta infront of your most favorite word in the universe and you are saying I'm agreeing. I'm not. I'm saying this is a Open Beta phase that is testing how the game works but it has PWI's commercial product in it.
I really don't know how to make it any clearer if the defined terms don't clue you in, sorry maybe some one else here can explain it better.
You're simply repeating yourself, not making anything clearer. You've stated:
"commercial product = launch, calling it beta does not make it any less of a commercial product"
"It launched the moment it charged for the service/box as it is then a commercial transaction."
That is false, as exemplified by prepurchase and preorder sales well before anything is even playable or online. Now, the big thing that you are overlooking is that Beta is not what you are paying for. It is not the full product and not the official launch. They are selling you a pack of perks which includes beta access. If you choose to further spend money once in the beta, that is entirely up to you.
Question: In which betas did players buy points/items during the beta and didn't get those points refunded to their account at release?
@Reploid: All RIFT Beta characters were wiped on February 23rd, 2011.
Will our closed-beta characters be wiped for the Head Start and launch of RIFT? Yes
So my character I re-made in Open is still there, there is no mention of characters made in open, only this one made about closed
commercial product = launch, calling it a beta does not make it any less a commercial product.
Then it's a beta commercial product.
and? glad we all agree
I don't know what I'm agreeing on. You keep stating it's a commercial product (which you seem to have a hard on for that word now) and that it's released and nothing more should be said on the subject. Now I just added beta infront of your most favorite word in the universe and you are saying I'm agreeing. I'm not. I'm saying this is a Open Beta phase that is testing how the game works but it has PWI's commercial product in it.
I really don't know how to make it any clearer if the defined terms don't clue you in, sorry maybe some one else here can explain it better.
You're simply repeating yourself, not making anything clearer. You've stated:
"commercial product = launch, calling it beta does not make it any less of a commercial product"
"It launched the moment it charged for the service/box as it is then a commercial transaction."
That is false, as exemplified by prepurchase and preorder sales well before anything is even playable or online. Now, the big thing that you are overlooking is that Beta is not what you are paying for. It is not the full product and not the official launch. They are selling you a pack of perks which includes beta access. If you choose to further spend money once in the beta, that is entirely up to you.
Question: In which betas did players buy points/items during the beta and didn't get those points refunded to their account at release?
@Reploid: All RIFT Beta characters were wiped on February 23rd, 2011.
Will our closed-beta characters be wiped for the Head Start and launch of RIFT? Yes
So my character I re-made in Open is still there, there is no mention of characters made in open, only this one made about closed
Then you are very special coz I know my open beta weekend characters were deleted in Rift and other games you maintain they weren't.
Now my Headstart characters weren't.Headstart is in no way Beta and is pretty much where the term soft launch comes from.
Headstart is a designated period of time in the days just before hard launch where people who have purchased the game before a certain date(usually the day before headstart begins) before Hard Launch get a...Head Start on those buying it on launch day or after said close date.Again it's a marketing thing.
This.Open Beta is for testing, including testing the cash shop. But if it is on the live server and isn't wiped, then it's a launch.
We have to remember that with Neverwinter, they are planning on making the three servers into one mega server. So technically what you are saying that are Beta testing the cash shop because these are not the live servers.
I will gladly help a game test their cash shop... with THEIR money, not mine. Unfortunately, LOTS of gamers feel differently, so games charge players to test their game simply because us players gobble it up.
Is it a blatant cash grab? You bet it is! Supported wholeheartedly by players.
- Al
Personally the only modern MMORPG trend that annoys me is the idea that MMOs need to be designed in a way to attract people who don't actually like MMOs. Which to me makes about as much sense as someone trying to figure out a way to get vegetarians to eat at their steakhouse. - FARGIN_WAR
Anyway I agree somewhat OP, open beta/stress testing has always existed in this genre, because it's needed, taking money before release has pretty much been there all along as well.
As far as the cash shop is concerned there are other ways to test if it works, yet those are not exactly what one could consider live environments, which any MMO needs that sort of post launch stress, as well as activity testing before release (many exploits are found in this stage of a game's testing). As far as I know this is the first time NW has had such stress put on it's servers (live activity). That would be considered Open Beta for a any other western game.
What boggles my mind even more than everything else is people arguing based on typical F2P releases. Which, except for a select few have been Asian or (insert) ports/localizations of (released) titles. Any argument based on those games is void, those games already had been live tested (in most cases) years before we see them.
As far as the subject of testing is concerned I'd consider NW to be in Open Beta, as far as taking money goes, that's another matter entirely. One which the consumer controls... Paying is acceptance.
For every minute you are angry , you lose 60 seconds of happiness."-Emerson
Anyway I agree somewhat OP, open beta/stress testing has always existed in this genre, because it's needed, taking money before release has pretty much been there all along as well.
As far as the cash shop is concerned there are other ways to test if it works, yet those are not exactly what one could consider live environments, which any MMO needs that sort of post launch stress, as well as activity testing before release (many exploits are found in this stage of a game's testing). As far as I know this is the first time NW has had such stress put on it's servers (live activity). That would be considered Open Beta for a any other western game.
What boggles my mind even more than everything else is people arguing based on typical F2P releases. Which, except for a select few have been Asian or (insert) ports/localizations of (released) titles. Any argument based on those games is void, those games already had been live tested (in most cases) years before we see them.
As far as the subject of testing is concerned I'd consider NW to be in Open Beta, as far as taking money goes, that's another matter entirely. One which the consumer controls... Paying is acceptance.
Actually f2p is no different than sub or p2p the company offers a service for a fee, customers pay or dont' pay that fee based on their own cost/value analysis. How they pay and who pays and what they pay for may vary but the end result is the same. The company either generates enough revenue or it doesn't.
if a publisher or dev is taking money from players to enjoy their game(inventory expansion, bank expansion and whatnot) then it is already launched. the only reason they use the term "open beta" is for morons who are dumb enough to spend shit load of time and cash in their game and defend all the bugs or game crash or server crash or server lag with the notion "it is still beta, so it is ok". the term "open beta" literally means a beta that is open to all participant so that devs can test out how much stress their server can take, how many player their engine can properly emulate in a confined space before it crashes or start lagging, how much stress their network structure can take when they have to provide to millions of players and how much every aspect of the game being affected in the presence of millions of payers. the purpose of 'open beta" is not to nickle-dime money out of players.
Boobs are LIFE, Boobs are LOVE, Boobs are JUSTICE, Boobs are mankind's HOPES and DREAMS. People who complain about boobs have lost their humanity.
Beta for most gamers has connotations that the game is not ready for release yet and is still in testing stage. Most players dont like paying to test games for people.
Yes, I realise that F2P games have this Open Beta tag these days. But it is confusing and misleading. Every day there are questions in Neverwinter chat asking if characters will get wiped. Because it is a confusing term.
For Neverwinter, the game is launched, its playable, its complete (as much as a MMO can ever be complete, since they are ongoing developments). They should have just called it launch, because thats what it is.
Anyway I agree somewhat OP, open beta/stress testing has always existed in this genre, because it's needed, taking money before release has pretty much been there all along as well.
As far as the cash shop is concerned there are other ways to test if it works, yet those are not exactly what one could consider live environments, which any MMO needs that sort of post launch stress, as well as activity testing before release (many exploits are found in this stage of a game's testing). As far as I know this is the first time NW has had such stress put on it's servers (live activity). That would be considered Open Beta for a any other western game.
What boggles my mind even more than everything else is people arguing based on typical F2P releases. Which, except for a select few have been Asian or (insert) ports/localizations of (released) titles. Any argument based on those games is void, those games already had been live tested (in most cases) years before we see them.
As far as the subject of testing is concerned I'd consider NW to be in Open Beta, as far as taking money goes, that's another matter entirely. One which the consumer controls... Paying is acceptance.
Actually f2p is no different than sub or p2p the company offers a service for a fee, customers pay or dont' pay that fee based on their own cost/value analysis. How they pay and who pays and what they pay for may vary but the end result is the same. The company either generates enough revenue or it doesn't.
That's the basics of it..
For every minute you are angry , you lose 60 seconds of happiness."-Emerson
Irrespective of all the - is it open beta, soft launch, full launch hyperbole coming out:
Stepping back to view the current game status.
Cryptic (PWE) have allowed full access to their product to an unrestricted player base. This product allows and encourages commercial transactions - that is the whole basis of their business plan.
The product has been offered to the customer base with obvious, unannounced, and unchecked fundamental flaws.
Having an open beta status against the product is an attempted allowance of these fundamental flaws - well documented exploits and bugs - to be present in the game.
The knock on effect is possibly three fold:
Longevity and retention of the current player base - some of whom may feel they have ended up investing money in what turned out to be a significantly flawed offering.
Difficulty in attracting new players into the game, discouraged by the resultant controversy.
Company reputation for future product introductions. Players opting to stay clear of any other games - present or future from PWE/Cryptic
Any "Open Beta" that is a F2P title should follow suite with what "Open Beta" actually means. A TEST of content that does not require anything to be charged for testing purposes.
Anytime you CHARGE money in a "Beta" it means you're not in a BETA, and have actually launched.
Agreed, i'm playing both Neverwinter and Marvel Heroes Beta's. Marvel Heroes gave everyone in game coin to test their store (though by launch it all goes away anyway) but it felt better that they gave us their coin to spend on stuff to test stuff. I like both games, but feel MH is doing a real beta test to collect data and input from the fans/community, where as NW wants money to continue working on stuff (can't blame em for that but would have been nice for them to just say so).
Yea Rep,I'm just looking at and trying to be non biased.I can see both side's and am just wondering.Is there really much difference at all between open beta/launch.I know I sure didn't feel a difference playing AOC/EQ2 and War.
Just forget what it's called, open beta closed beta upside done inside out or green
Once they charged money for it it will be judged by it's consumers as a commercial product god/bad/ugly and the clock is ticking. within a couple weeks to a month you'll know if it does A TOR or not
Lol if it does a Tor,that's frickin ugly!
Judging by todays events it might be doing a TOR, told you it would be quick if it did. Once you commercialize something (sell it) one must meet consumer expectations.
Beta for most gamers has connotations that the game is not ready for release yet and is still in testing stage. Most players dont like paying to test games for people.
Yes, I realise that F2P games have this Open Beta tag these days. But it is confusing and misleading. Every day there are questions in Neverwinter chat asking if characters will get wiped. Because it is a confusing term.
For Neverwinter, the game is launched, its playable, its complete (as much as a MMO can ever be complete, since they are ongoing developments). They should have just called it launch, because thats what it is.
In line with this, I don't pay to beta test a video game.
I'm sure the title is hypothetical but it's pretty basic. Don't pay. I can't really take it beyond that. If I don't punch in the 12 digits and the CV code, they aren't getting any money.
This isn't a troll post, nor is it one to start a flame war. But I know this will generate both. Not to mention I'm trying to throw logic and reasoning in a forum that I try to stay away from since everyone just likes to go with a knee jerk reaction, but I'm staying the course on this!
Neverwinter is indeed in open beta/soft launch, but I don't have a gripe for it. I threw down five bucks for some character slots and thats about it, and I might throw down money in the future if classes that I want are hidden behind a pay wall, but that is neither here or there. What seems to be the problem lately is free games going into open with their cash shop open, and it seems some people forget that during closed it was not open. How I view all this, is that during open beta their cash shop needs to tested and tweaked. I saw the same thing in Allods Online as well, where their shop was open and by the time "launch" showed up, their market was different. Open beta lets the masses in, it's bigger than closed betas of course, so this would be a perfect time to test out their market place, and it seems when the actual launch shows up, maybe just maybe that 10 dollar back might be down to five.
Now I got done reading Bill Murphy's blog, and I respect the guy, but I think the blog post is just one big destructive criticism that we see in every MMO forum, and all it does is cater to more destructive talks. I think what would make a better blog is if Bill gave us an opinion on what to do with Free to Play games cash shop during their betas. It seems like he is stuck in 1999/early 2000s where every game needs an subscription and nothing more. He is not the only one, there is a vast majority of people that want a subscription based only game (P2P) and want nothing more. There is an ugly stigma with F2P that needs to be cleared. The games that are free now are not what they where ten years ago, they are not the korean grinders that make you buy XP pots just so you can get a level after one day (but that is how they like that for some reason). The stereotypical MMO gamer now is someone who wants instant gratification NOW, but doesn't know what he/she wants when they get it. I've seen it time and time again, like one post I read on here on what people would do to make their perfect game. What did they pick? WoW options that is freemium, yet most of these people before hate WoW "clones" that are freemium.
This is just an opinion of mine from observations. If people prefer to pay fifteen bucks a month, go for it, if you wish to play a free game thats awesome too. I myself like the Freemium/Free to play games because I'm a poor gamer. I don't have the money to throw down 14.99 a month for a game that I might just randomly stop playing because I'm bored of raiding or running dungeons over and over again. Sure some of the free games will make me do it at their endgame, but I have nothing to loose if I don't put all that money down and can just leave it to go back to another game that is free.
tl;dr: I'm just giving out my opinion is all and I'm tired of people just trying to see stuff ruined when we should work together to solve problems, or just let other people have their fun.
Always people like you open up there wallets and willing to sppent in there alpha/beta/openbeta cash shops.
Two choices eather keep your wallet close untill the game actually is released or take the consequence and spent money on game they maybe fail or is just not what your looking for.
Comments
yea open betas typically go through phases of increasing levels of stress/load testing not so much mechanics/systems testing. and largely reflect the final build
Joined 2004 - I can't believe I've been a MMORPG.com member for 20 years! Get off my lawn!
Just forget what it's called, open beta closed beta upside down inside out or green
Once they charged money for it it will be judged by it's consumers as a commercial product god/bad/ugly and the clock is ticking. within a couple weeks to a month you'll know if it does A TOR or not
What if I only buy ? Hehe I kid I kid :P
Some day I'm going to put a sword through your eye and out the back of your skull!
Arya Stark
Lol if it does a Tor,that's frickin ugly!
Some day I'm going to put a sword through your eye and out the back of your skull!
Arya Stark
The thing is if you discount things like character wipes and commercial transactions...every game that exists is in open beta and Launch is a nonexistent concept or at best arbitrary.
yea as far as determining weather it's a roaring success that should be within the 3-6 mo range, STO level of meh about 2-3 months, TOR face plant pretty darn quick.
Thank you Drak
Some day I'm going to put a sword through your eye and out the back of your skull!
Arya Stark
Open beta is a hold over term from when it was actually utilized for testing, about 1/2 decade ago it began to transition more to a marketing gimmick than anything that actually tested any significant systems. I can't even remember the last open beta that lased longer than a yr or a closed beta longer than 1.5
EDIT happened around the time all the bubbles burst around the world and all the venture capitalists wanted their $ NOW. Since a lot of the developers back then were dumb enough to get operating capital from the loan sharks of the corporate world. Turbine is an excellent example of this. Once lending dried up Katey bar the door.
I would agree that there are no longer true open betas.Now it's just a marketing term like preview weekend or what have you.Very little testing is actually done now it's just a way to attract consumers.
You're simply repeating yourself, not making anything clearer. You've stated:
That is false, as exemplified by prepurchase and preorder sales well before anything is even playable or online. Now, the big thing that you are overlooking is that Beta is not what you are paying for. It is not the full product and not the official launch. They are selling you a pack of perks which includes beta access. If you choose to further spend money once in the beta, that is entirely up to you.
Question: In which betas did players buy points/items during the beta and didn't get those points refunded to their account at release?
@Reploid: All RIFT Beta characters were wiped on February 23rd, 2011.
There isn't a "right" or "wrong" way to play, if you want to use a screwdriver to put nails into wood, have at it, simply don't complain when the guy next to you with the hammer is doing it much better and easier. - Allein
"Graphics are often supplied by Engines that (some) MMORPG's are built in" - Spuffyre
Actually if you go back and look through (for those that have it archived) the beta forums for those games you can tell almost exactly when the pre-orders went out. That's about the time the low grade backlashes started. As soon as $ is an issue consumers will begin evaluating value/cost. What I'm trying to get across, (unsuccessfully it seems) is that as soon as a company charges $ it no longer has the "cover" of being in testing. The provider can call it closed beta, open beta, launch, lunch, or red. The market evaluation process begins as soon as consumers begin paying.
EDIT: Heck SWTOR didn't even make it 30 days before the player base loss was enough to be mentioned in EA's shareholders meeting. All those players didn't wake up one morning and say hey I don't like this game. It was a cumulative process of evaluating perceived value/cost unique to the individual that took time.
Will our closed-beta characters be wiped for the Head Start and launch of RIFT?
Yes
So my character I re-made in Open is still there, there is no mention of characters made in open, only this one made about closed
Then you are very special coz I know my open beta weekend characters were deleted in Rift and other games you maintain they weren't.
Now my Headstart characters weren't.Headstart is in no way Beta and is pretty much where the term soft launch comes from.
Headstart is a designated period of time in the days just before hard launch where people who have purchased the game before a certain date(usually the day before headstart begins) before Hard Launch get a...Head Start on those buying it on launch day or after said close date.Again it's a marketing thing.
Is it a blatant cash grab? You bet it is! Supported wholeheartedly by players.
- Al
Personally the only modern MMORPG trend that annoys me is the idea that MMOs need to be designed in a way to attract people who don't actually like MMOs. Which to me makes about as much sense as someone trying to figure out a way to get vegetarians to eat at their steakhouse.- FARGIN_WAR
It's quite boggling that people still do not understand the actual concept of F2P, as well as the reasoning behind the model.
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Anyway I agree somewhat OP, open beta/stress testing has always existed in this genre, because it's needed, taking money before release has pretty much been there all along as well.
As far as the cash shop is concerned there are other ways to test if it works, yet those are not exactly what one could consider live environments, which any MMO needs that sort of post launch stress, as well as activity testing before release (many exploits are found in this stage of a game's testing). As far as I know this is the first time NW has had such stress put on it's servers (live activity). That would be considered Open Beta for a any other western game.
What boggles my mind even more than everything else is people arguing based on typical F2P releases. Which, except for a select few have been Asian or (insert) ports/localizations of (released) titles. Any argument based on those games is void, those games already had been live tested (in most cases) years before we see them.
As far as the subject of testing is concerned I'd consider NW to be in Open Beta, as far as taking money goes, that's another matter entirely. One which the consumer controls... Paying is acceptance.
For every minute you are angry , you lose 60 seconds of happiness."-Emerson
Actually f2p is no different than sub or p2p the company offers a service for a fee, customers pay or dont' pay that fee based on their own cost/value analysis. How they pay and who pays and what they pay for may vary but the end result is the same. The company either generates enough revenue or it doesn't.
Boobs are LIFE, Boobs are LOVE, Boobs are JUSTICE, Boobs are mankind's HOPES and DREAMS. People who complain about boobs have lost their humanity.
Beta for most gamers has connotations that the game is not ready for release yet and is still in testing stage. Most players dont like paying to test games for people.
Yes, I realise that F2P games have this Open Beta tag these days. But it is confusing and misleading. Every day there are questions in Neverwinter chat asking if characters will get wiped. Because it is a confusing term.
For Neverwinter, the game is launched, its playable, its complete (as much as a MMO can ever be complete, since they are ongoing developments). They should have just called it launch, because thats what it is.
That's the basics of it..
For every minute you are angry , you lose 60 seconds of happiness."-Emerson
Irrespective of all the - is it open beta, soft launch, full launch hyperbole coming out:
Stepping back to view the current game status.
Cryptic (PWE) have allowed full access to their product to an unrestricted player base. This product allows and encourages commercial transactions - that is the whole basis of their business plan.
The product has been offered to the customer base with obvious, unannounced, and unchecked fundamental flaws.
Having an open beta status against the product is an attempted allowance of these fundamental flaws - well documented exploits and bugs - to be present in the game.
The knock on effect is possibly three fold:
Longevity and retention of the current player base - some of whom may feel they have ended up investing money in what turned out to be a significantly flawed offering.
Difficulty in attracting new players into the game, discouraged by the resultant controversy.
Company reputation for future product introductions. Players opting to stay clear of any other games - present or future from PWE/Cryptic
Agreed, i'm playing both Neverwinter and Marvel Heroes Beta's. Marvel Heroes gave everyone in game coin to test their store (though by launch it all goes away anyway) but it felt better that they gave us their coin to spend on stuff to test stuff. I like both games, but feel MH is doing a real beta test to collect data and input from the fans/community, where as NW wants money to continue working on stuff (can't blame em for that but would have been nice for them to just say so).
Judging by todays events it might be doing a TOR, told you it would be quick if it did. Once you commercialize something (sell it) one must meet consumer expectations.
In line with this, I don't pay to beta test a video game.
I'm sure the title is hypothetical but it's pretty basic. Don't pay. I can't really take it beyond that. If I don't punch in the 12 digits and the CV code, they aren't getting any money.
Always people like you open up there wallets and willing to sppent in there alpha/beta/openbeta cash shops.
Two choices eather keep your wallet close untill the game actually is released or take the consequence and spent money on game they maybe fail or is just not what your looking for.
This reply was based on:
WoT;dr(only neverwinternight paragraph read)