Originally posted by wordiz Wow, blown away at how many people expect a fantasy game to be rooted in reality. As if this game being steampunkish was a secret.
The people that scratch their head as to why no AAA devs make a sandbox-focused MMO should print this thread out and nail it to their wall. Not only is there little or no agreement among the sandbox crowd as to what may constitute a good sandbox game, the minute something is introduced that a sandbox fan doesn't like, they reject the game almost in its entirety as a result of it. It's a crowd so fickle and polarized that it's almost pointless to try developing a new game for them.
Yeah, but to be fair you are assuming that "sandbox" people are all of one type and all are in agreement about aesthetics, how lore and the world is constructed, etc.
I'm assuming no such thing, rather concretely stating the exact opposite.
A better way for me to say that is that you indicate that "sandbox" people are not in agreement, disparate in opinion and all over the place and of that they are all of a "type" that they all poo poo any element that goes against their sensibilities.
Yet one can say that for any themepark person as well.
You mean the hybrid people, AA is not a sandbox mmo.
WurmOnline is sandbox, A Tale In The Desert is sandbox not AA.
Yes I suppose that's a good point as many people are thinking (myself included I suppose even though deep down I know better) that Arche Age is a sandbox when it's not.
I wonder if that will be a shock as well? I suppose it depends on how well the sandbox elements are implemented.
I loved it and also in game they have technology to build cars. Its funny though how one little feature can 'officially' ruin entire game for some people.
"The problem is that the hardcore folks always want the same thing: 'We want exactly what you gave us before, but it has to be completely different.' -Jesse Schell
"Online gamers are the most ludicrously entitled beings since Caligula made his horse a senator, and at least the horse never said anything stupid." -Luke McKinney
Originally posted by wordiz Wow, blown away at how many people expect a fantasy game to be rooted in reality. As if this game being steampunkish was a secret.
The people that scratch their head as to why no AAA devs make a sandbox-focused MMO should print this thread out and nail it to their wall. Not only is there little or no agreement among the sandbox crowd as to what may constitute a good sandbox game, the minute something is introduced that a sandbox fan doesn't like, they reject the game almost in its entirety as a result of it. It's a crowd so fickle and polarized that it's almost pointless to try developing a new game for them.
Yeah, but to be fair you are assuming that "sandbox" people are all of one type and all are in agreement about aesthetics, how lore and the world is constructed, etc.
I'm assuming no such thing, rather concretely stating the exact opposite.
A better way for me to say that is that you indicate that "sandbox" people are not in agreement, disparate in opinion and all over the place and of that they are all of a "type" that they all poo poo any element that goes against their sensibilities.
Yet one can say that for any themepark person as well.
The difference is there are 50 million of them, so it's easier to find a sizable audience for any given title.
There isn't a "right" or "wrong" way to play, if you want to use a screwdriver to put nails into wood, have at it, simply don't complain when the guy next to you with the hammer is doing it much better and easier. - Allein "Graphics are often supplied by Engines that (some) MMORPG's are built in" - Spuffyre
Originally posted by Doogiehowser I loved it and also in game they have technology to build cars. Its funny though how one little feature can 'officially' ruin entire game for some people.
again, it goes down to those who enjoy a certain design sensibility, those who enjoy a certain sense of immersion.
As I've said, I have no problem with a world that incorporates disparate technologies. But it better well be integrated in a way that works.
Given the other things that I've seen over the course of the game's development, with more being released closer to launch, it does seem that it's more about throwing things in that are neat as opposed to making a world that has some sort of coherence.
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For me I want to buy the game even more now. Gives you a chance to go do other things then just quest and destroy things. I think they are doing this for complete immersion into the game. I for one will enjoy this side feature. If you don't like this feature you can ignore it. this game is packed with so much stuff. There is no way one feature can ruin it.
You must not have waited long because ArcheAge has always had steampunk vehicles, now granted this are more polished looking then say the tractors, but it's not completely out of keeping with the game. The Ta-Re look more out of place then the steam punk inspired roadster. Also it's not the first time they showed the car, heck even MMORPG.com posted a picture of it back in April. http://www.mmorpg.com/gamelist.cfm/game/572/feature/7325
And people complained back then with that exact article and one poster who said that he was playing the game claimed that the cars were actually not in the game.
The point is it doesn't break the setting, most of those complaining appear to have little idea about the setting of the game and view it as high fantasy with high sea action when it's more of a mix of fantasy, renaissance and steam punk. In other words this type of tech and style fits the setting of the game and it would be more out of place not to have it, though personally I would like to see the roadster roughed up some. Vehicles are not new to Arche Age and if anything not having a vehicle outside of crafting, trading and warfare would just seem silly, the tech exists and there is no point for it to exist only in a work like setting.
Except that a good amount of the game was presented as fantasy/renaissance mash-up and now it's that and steam punk/technology.
I just think the presentation, as I have mentioned, feels like "everything but the kitchen sink". Considering that at one time there was a disco (which we have been told was removed) it seems more fitting to say that the developers don't care about what they put in the game design wise.
There is definitely a way to integrate all this but the designers are tacky. "In my opinion".
That's the part I don't get is how people missed the steam punk when they showed airships, steam power carriages, tanks, tractors and carts almost since the day it was announced. Yet somehow in all that not one complaint not until they add a roadster then somehow it's out of place. Somehow people claim to have missed it and I think if they had paid a little more attention they would see it all fits and is not a huge mess of a mixing pot but more like a fantasy world evolving into a tech world.
Because flying a Minmatar ship is like going down a flight of stairs on an office chair while firing an Uzi.
Originally posted by kabitoshin The only thing I thought cool about this game was it's open water pvp. Think it'd be fun to be a swashbuckler pillaging your goods.
lol that sounds like a "line" one would use in a pirate game
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Originally posted by Doogiehowser I loved it and also in game they have technology to build cars. Its funny though how one little feature can 'officially' ruin entire game for some people.
again, it goes down to those who enjoy a certain design sensibility, those who enjoy a certain sense of immersion.
As I've said, I have no problem with a world that incorporates disparate technologies. But it better well be integrated in a way that works.
Given the other things that I've seen over the course of the game's development, with more being released closer to launch, it does seem that it's more about throwing things in that are neat as opposed to making a world that has some sort of coherence.
Immersion is matter of convenience and selectivity and is like watching a kid eating all the meat chunks out of the green vegetables and making a face when told to finish the rest. There are lot more things that break immersion in this game apart from people zooming around in cars.
"The problem is that the hardcore folks always want the same thing: 'We want exactly what you gave us before, but it has to be completely different.' -Jesse Schell
"Online gamers are the most ludicrously entitled beings since Caligula made his horse a senator, and at least the horse never said anything stupid." -Luke McKinney
That's the part I don't get is how people missed the steam punk when they showed airships, steam power carriages, tanks, tractors and carts almost since the day it was announced. Yet somehow in all that not one complaint not until they add a roadster then somehow it's out of place. Somehow people claim to have missed it and I think if they had paid a little more attention they would see it all fits and is not a huge mess of a mixing pot but more like a fantasy world evolving into a tech world.
I'll be honest I missed quite a bit of that but not in the way you were thinking.
Since Balloons and kites have been around since early AD (albeit unmanned) I just thought they were pushing the envelope. Same with the gliders as kites have been around for a very long time. I didn't think they were going for a steam punk bent but just pushing the flight technology a bit for the fantasy world.
I then saw a catapult that seemed "automated" and felt they were going a bit too far.
Now that I see that this is truly a steam punk game (from a discussion that happened n April) I don't feel they've done a good job with it.
Again, I'll say it feels sloppy.
Like Skyrim? Need more content? Try my Skyrim mod "Godfred's Tomb."
Originally posted by Doogiehowser I loved it and also in game they have technology to build cars. Its funny though how one little feature can 'officially' ruin entire game for some people.
again, it goes down to those who enjoy a certain design sensibility, those who enjoy a certain sense of immersion.
As I've said, I have no problem with a world that incorporates disparate technologies. But it better well be integrated in a way that works.
Given the other things that I've seen over the course of the game's development, with more being released closer to launch, it does seem that it's more about throwing things in that are neat as opposed to making a world that has some sort of coherence.
Immersion is matter of convenience and selectivity and is like watching a kid eating all the meat chunks out of the green vegetables and making a face when told to finish the rest. There are lot more things that break immersion in this game apart from people zooming around in cars.
I'll go along with selectivity. Convenience? meh, that's too dismissive to my taste.
But Selectivity? sure. Everyone has their breaking point.
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It's official, Arche Age has been ruined. After so long of waiting and however long I was still going to have to wait beyond this post, I no longer have to wait.
Like all other Asian influenced games, they somehow have to completely ruin it with something that just doesn't make sense.
Anyway, I'm not here to gripe. I just want to know is there any other games on the horizon that have really interesting exploration with the added bonus of ships and nautical warfare? Preferably something that is medieval fantasy based.
OMG that looks so awesome! Im so gonna try arch age now
I could understand if this was based on some familiar fantasy world, but who are we to decide cars are lore breaking or hurt the immersion factor. People really thought they were going to have urban settings with Red Light Districts with glass windows and electric lighting, gliders, magic, but oooh cars are off limits?
Now if your upset over the badly animated and completely unnecessary flip the car does....yeah...that was pretty lame.
^Pretty much this.
You did not make the game.
You aren't part owner of the company.
What you think should or shouldn't be in game means NOTHING.
If what they are doing with their game bothers you so much. Go secure funding and staff, and make your own.
In War - Victory. In Peace - Vigilance. In Death - Sacrifice.
You must not have waited long because ArcheAge has always had steampunk vehicles, now granted this are more polished looking then say the tractors, but it's not completely out of keeping with the game. The Ta-Re look more out of place then the steam punk inspired roadster. Also it's not the first time they showed the car, heck even MMORPG.com posted a picture of it back in April. http://www.mmorpg.com/gamelist.cfm/game/572/feature/7325
And people complained back then with that exact article and one poster who said that he was playing the game claimed that the cars were actually not in the game.
The point is it doesn't break the setting, most of those complaining appear to have little idea about the setting of the game and view it as high fantasy with high sea action when it's more of a mix of fantasy, renaissance and steam punk. In other words this type of tech and style fits the setting of the game and it would be more out of place not to have it, though personally I would like to see the roadster roughed up some. Vehicles are not new to Arche Age and if anything not having a vehicle outside of crafting, trading and warfare would just seem silly, the tech exists and there is no point for it to exist only in a work like setting.
Except that a good amount of the game was presented as fantasy/renaissance mash-up and now it's that and steam punk/technology.
I just think the presentation, as I have mentioned, feels like "everything but the kitchen sink". Considering that at one time there was a disco (which we have been told was removed) it seems more fitting to say that the developers don't care about what they put in the game design wise.
There is definitely a way to integrate all this but the designers are tacky. "In my opinion".
That's the part I don't get is how people missed the steam punk when they showed airships, steam power carriages, tanks, tractors and carts almost since the day it was announced. Yet somehow in all that not one complaint not until they add a roadster then somehow it's out of place. Somehow people claim to have missed it and I think if they had paid a little more attention they would see it all fits and is not a huge mess of a mixing pot but more like a fantasy world evolving into a tech world.
I agree lol, makes you wonder if most the people following AA are just following the hype train without actually knowing much about the game. These are the people who shout the loudest, this thread is a prime example lol.
Didn't ArenaNET do a Halo-style video of GW2 characters? They never ended up in game... chill... you're reacting to some video from sources unknown for purposes unknown.
I agree lol, makes you wonder if most the people following AA are just following the hype train without actually knowing much about the game. These are the people who shout the loudest, this thread is a prime example lol.
As I've already said the game presented itself as a fantasy game. since fantasy games have incorporated a rather wide time frame (from dark ages to early renaissance) it wasn't beyond the pale to think that people would take this game as a fantasy game.
It's not like cars and steam ships were in the very first videos. Heck, I don't remember when steam ships were added as I always saw sailing ships.
So you know, sometimes a cigar is just a cigar.
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The only thing that come to mind personally is, ITS YOUR LOSS!!
So let me get this straight, gamers have been begging for a game to break the themepark mold for years. Players yearn for new, exciting, and different activities than have been offered these past years. Along comes Archeage with arguably the most ambitious full feature set to ever be included in a game's core at release AND THIS IS ALL IT TAKES? So, it sounds like a good majority would rather continue to play the vanilla clone themeparks and avoid AA on principal. Ignoring that the gameplay is all there, there are TONS of activities to keep you busy for a long time, not to mention AA is a game that you can actually play for more than a couple months.
Are there really players that hold lore so close that no matter what features a game has, how fun it may be, and how engaging a game is long term, lore trumps it all? Wow I am glad I don't play with friends like these, talk about frustrating! Not to mention who are we to tell the developer how they should develop their own lore?
To me this is a low blow, Trion isn't in a position yet to start releasing official info yet and in it's absence, instead of meaningful discussions, all people want to do is bitch and try to paint an uniformed negative image of AA before any official new is released.
I can guarantee just about every one of you will change your tune when you get a chance to play it and realize how refreshingly different the game is. Then maybe you will understand how ridiculous something as minor as this would prevent ANYONE from playing it. The question is if you are ignorant enough to buy what the trolls are selling and never give it a chance? If so, once again ITS YOUR LOSS and I will see you on the other side when you get bored of TESO or NWN two months after release.
I may be willing to overlook this if it is contained to some lame mini-game. But this certainly raises valid concerns about the immigration factor in the game, IMO.
The poster who mentioned the integration of western imports to the east during the industrialization period brings up quite an interesting though, though. This may be one of those instances where our cultures simply don't mesh too well.
Edit to add: After reading the thread, I felt I should point out that I, as a 'sandbox' fan, am definitely still going to try the game, cars or no cars. It looks a little goofy, but it's definitely not a game BREAKER.
But, like I said above, I hope this isn't an indication of how immersive the overall game world will be. I don't know, I haven't been following too closely yet as it still seems to be too far away from a western launch to get too hyped up about it.
My main issue is that I generally don't like games that center around on a bunch of weird minigames and lose focus on the deeper metagame that I'm interested in. This video doesn't really conclusively point to either direction.
That's because we're sort of closed minded like that poster above pointed out. I'm sure other cultures suffer from this sort of myopia as well, but that doesn't change the fact that we have preconceived notions that we're basing our judgements on. The technologies are only considered disparate because you have this preconceived notion of congruency.
I'm not criticizing or belittling that, but I think it's important to recognize it as well. I do the same thing, and probably the only reason this doesn't bother me as well is because I watch anime that uses this design element so it's not strange or jarring to me.
I do think it's going to be a problem with the western audience though. Jake Song is an amazing designer, in my opinion, and even though he's tried to consider a global audience in design, he won't be able to appeal to everyone. It's also why I think our Western games tend to flop in Asia. People enjoy their cultural idiosyncrasies and don't feel comfortable moving outside the box. I think we don't value innovation and "different" as much as we think we do.
well "no".
The inconsistency comes with their art design. As I've said several times, I have no problem with different technology sets in a game. At all.
What I have a problem with is the representation of these technologies from very concrete time periods. It's almost lazy.
having a steam powered vehicle, flying machines that use steam/hot hair and having some sort of swords and magic can work. But each example/ machine comes across as being "of an era" as opposed to a blending of eras.
The way they have done it is to just take examples from different eras and plug them in.
Like Skyrim? Need more content? Try my Skyrim mod "Godfred's Tomb."
Comments
Hybrid is the future.
"The problem is that the hardcore folks always want the same thing: 'We want exactly what you gave us before, but it has to be completely different.'
-Jesse Schell
"Online gamers are the most ludicrously entitled beings since Caligula made his horse a senator, and at least the horse never said anything stupid."
-Luke McKinney
The difference is there are 50 million of them, so it's easier to find a sizable audience for any given title.
There isn't a "right" or "wrong" way to play, if you want to use a screwdriver to put nails into wood, have at it, simply don't complain when the guy next to you with the hammer is doing it much better and easier. - Allein
"Graphics are often supplied by Engines that (some) MMORPG's are built in" - Spuffyre
again, it goes down to those who enjoy a certain design sensibility, those who enjoy a certain sense of immersion.
As I've said, I have no problem with a world that incorporates disparate technologies. But it better well be integrated in a way that works.
Given the other things that I've seen over the course of the game's development, with more being released closer to launch, it does seem that it's more about throwing things in that are neat as opposed to making a world that has some sort of coherence.
Godfred's Tomb Trailer: https://youtu.be/-nsXGddj_4w
Original Skyrim: https://www.nexusmods.com/skyrim/mods/109547
Serph toze kindly has started a walk-through. https://youtu.be/UIelCK-lldo
That's the part I don't get is how people missed the steam punk when they showed airships, steam power carriages, tanks, tractors and carts almost since the day it was announced. Yet somehow in all that not one complaint not until they add a roadster then somehow it's out of place. Somehow people claim to have missed it and I think if they had paid a little more attention they would see it all fits and is not a huge mess of a mixing pot but more like a fantasy world evolving into a tech world.
Because flying a Minmatar ship is like going down a flight of stairs on an office chair while firing an Uzi.
lol that sounds like a "line" one would use in a pirate game
Godfred's Tomb Trailer: https://youtu.be/-nsXGddj_4w
Original Skyrim: https://www.nexusmods.com/skyrim/mods/109547
Serph toze kindly has started a walk-through. https://youtu.be/UIelCK-lldo
Immersion is matter of convenience and selectivity and is like watching a kid eating all the meat chunks out of the green vegetables and making a face when told to finish the rest. There are lot more things that break immersion in this game apart from people zooming around in cars.
"The problem is that the hardcore folks always want the same thing: 'We want exactly what you gave us before, but it has to be completely different.'
-Jesse Schell
"Online gamers are the most ludicrously entitled beings since Caligula made his horse a senator, and at least the horse never said anything stupid."
-Luke McKinney
I'll be honest I missed quite a bit of that but not in the way you were thinking.
Since Balloons and kites have been around since early AD (albeit unmanned) I just thought they were pushing the envelope. Same with the gliders as kites have been around for a very long time. I didn't think they were going for a steam punk bent but just pushing the flight technology a bit for the fantasy world.
I then saw a catapult that seemed "automated" and felt they were going a bit too far.
Now that I see that this is truly a steam punk game (from a discussion that happened n April) I don't feel they've done a good job with it.
Again, I'll say it feels sloppy.
Godfred's Tomb Trailer: https://youtu.be/-nsXGddj_4w
Original Skyrim: https://www.nexusmods.com/skyrim/mods/109547
Serph toze kindly has started a walk-through. https://youtu.be/UIelCK-lldo
I'll go along with selectivity. Convenience? meh, that's too dismissive to my taste.
But Selectivity? sure. Everyone has their breaking point.
Godfred's Tomb Trailer: https://youtu.be/-nsXGddj_4w
Original Skyrim: https://www.nexusmods.com/skyrim/mods/109547
Serph toze kindly has started a walk-through. https://youtu.be/UIelCK-lldo
OMG that looks so awesome! Im so gonna try arch age now
^Pretty much this.
You did not make the game.
You aren't part owner of the company.
What you think should or shouldn't be in game means NOTHING.
If what they are doing with their game bothers you so much. Go secure funding and staff, and make your own.
In War - Victory.
In Peace - Vigilance.
In Death - Sacrifice.
I agree lol, makes you wonder if most the people following AA are just following the hype train without actually knowing much about the game. These are the people who shout the loudest, this thread is a prime example lol.
As I've already said the game presented itself as a fantasy game. since fantasy games have incorporated a rather wide time frame (from dark ages to early renaissance) it wasn't beyond the pale to think that people would take this game as a fantasy game.
It's not like cars and steam ships were in the very first videos. Heck, I don't remember when steam ships were added as I always saw sailing ships.
So you know, sometimes a cigar is just a cigar.
Godfred's Tomb Trailer: https://youtu.be/-nsXGddj_4w
Original Skyrim: https://www.nexusmods.com/skyrim/mods/109547
Serph toze kindly has started a walk-through. https://youtu.be/UIelCK-lldo
This.
The only thing that come to mind personally is, ITS YOUR LOSS!!
So let me get this straight, gamers have been begging for a game to break the themepark mold for years. Players yearn for new, exciting, and different activities than have been offered these past years. Along comes Archeage with arguably the most ambitious full feature set to ever be included in a game's core at release AND THIS IS ALL IT TAKES? So, it sounds like a good majority would rather continue to play the vanilla clone themeparks and avoid AA on principal. Ignoring that the gameplay is all there, there are TONS of activities to keep you busy for a long time, not to mention AA is a game that you can actually play for more than a couple months.
Are there really players that hold lore so close that no matter what features a game has, how fun it may be, and how engaging a game is long term, lore trumps it all? Wow I am glad I don't play with friends like these, talk about frustrating! Not to mention who are we to tell the developer how they should develop their own lore?
To me this is a low blow, Trion isn't in a position yet to start releasing official info yet and in it's absence, instead of meaningful discussions, all people want to do is bitch and try to paint an uniformed negative image of AA before any official new is released.
I can guarantee just about every one of you will change your tune when you get a chance to play it and realize how refreshingly different the game is. Then maybe you will understand how ridiculous something as minor as this would prevent ANYONE from playing it. The question is if you are ignorant enough to buy what the trolls are selling and never give it a chance? If so, once again ITS YOUR LOSS and I will see you on the other side when you get bored of TESO or NWN two months after release.
I may be willing to overlook this if it is contained to some lame mini-game. But this certainly raises valid concerns about the immigration factor in the game, IMO.
The poster who mentioned the integration of western imports to the east during the industrialization period brings up quite an interesting though, though. This may be one of those instances where our cultures simply don't mesh too well.
Edit to add: After reading the thread, I felt I should point out that I, as a 'sandbox' fan, am definitely still going to try the game, cars or no cars. It looks a little goofy, but it's definitely not a game BREAKER.
But, like I said above, I hope this isn't an indication of how immersive the overall game world will be. I don't know, I haven't been following too closely yet as it still seems to be too far away from a western launch to get too hyped up about it.
My main issue is that I generally don't like games that center around on a bunch of weird minigames and lose focus on the deeper metagame that I'm interested in. This video doesn't really conclusively point to either direction.
well "no".
The inconsistency comes with their art design. As I've said several times, I have no problem with different technology sets in a game. At all.
What I have a problem with is the representation of these technologies from very concrete time periods. It's almost lazy.
having a steam powered vehicle, flying machines that use steam/hot hair and having some sort of swords and magic can work. But each example/ machine comes across as being "of an era" as opposed to a blending of eras.
The way they have done it is to just take examples from different eras and plug them in.
Godfred's Tomb Trailer: https://youtu.be/-nsXGddj_4w
Original Skyrim: https://www.nexusmods.com/skyrim/mods/109547
Serph toze kindly has started a walk-through. https://youtu.be/UIelCK-lldo
You act like beggars can't be choosers. They can choose "not".
I'll just wait for a sandbox game that I don't think is silly. That doesn't have to offend you it's "just how i was drawn".
It's not like I don't think it's going to be a good game. It's just clearly not for me at this point.
Just like WoW is a good game for what it is but I don't play it.
Godfred's Tomb Trailer: https://youtu.be/-nsXGddj_4w
Original Skyrim: https://www.nexusmods.com/skyrim/mods/109547
Serph toze kindly has started a walk-through. https://youtu.be/UIelCK-lldo