There are so few games that can be self-sustainable on the P2P model.
The ones that are become behemoths of the industry.
A pipe dream for all the little companies making shovelware, but if anyone has the potential to do it again, SE certainly does.
The director was interviewed some time ago:
"The last thing is that our aim is to make an MMO,” Yoshida continued, “and a lot of companies do their development for MMOs by getting money from investors. Then the investors want their money back, so if the game doesn’t make enough money or doesn’t have enough users, then what do we do?
“We’d have to pay our investors back, and free-to-play is an option to get that money back to investors quickly. Final Fantasy XIV: A Realm Reborn is a product that is independent to Square-Enix. All of the money’s coming from us, so we had more time to put it into what we wanted to do. We’re not in a rush to pay anyone back.”
......
Another interview:
“Most MMOs have investors in the background, and the company uses the profit and splits the profit with the investors. But, if the game’s not successful, and it doesn’t reach the target, then they have to switch to free-to-play to try and get just a little profit from it. Among the MMOs in the market, only Blizzard and Square-Enix are making money without investors in the background.” Yoshida goes on to say that he doesn’t think it was subscriptions that hurt The Old Republic and The Secret World but the quality of the games themselves.
Needless to say, to justify P2P to gamers there has to be more content updates than with F2P titles. Only a company like SE can make it happen, because other developers are dependent on investors who don't want to keep funding a game post-release if there are no immediate returns.
I don't think there has to be "more updates" necessarily. I think "fewer updates overall, but of higher quality and greater involvement" would do just as well, if not better.
There only has to be more if all the new content they add is do-able within a couple days, if not hours, allowing players to burn through it. That's the problem, as I see it, with many Sub-based MMOs in recent years. They're designing a game with a revenue model that requires on-going month-to-month revenue from satisfied players. Then they design the game in complete contradiction to that, by making everything faster, easier and more immediate.
Another problem is that a lot of the content tends to be skip-able, with absolutely no detriment to the player (as in, they're not missing out on anything by avoiding it). Players never even have to touch it and, indeed, seldom do on their race to level cap. Make the content more meaningful, make it more interesting, and make it require more time and thought to complete.
I'm not saying they need to go back to the old days of "leveling to cap can happen no faster than a year". But I also think "level cap inside of a week" is just as ridiculous, if not moreso. And hell, at least if someone's taking a year to reach cap, they're actually spending time in the game and playing it for all those months.
They need to make content matter more. Quality over Quantity. They need to stop feeling obligated to make content that can be rushed through in a matter of hours of its release. I realize they do that to appease the impatience and stunted attention span many players have. But they're also shooting themselves in the foot and undermining their own endeavor.
Subscription-based MMOs need a stable, loyal player base who's there for the long-haul to survive, if not thrive. A transient MMO-Hopping population who takes a quick spin through the revolving door and is off to their next MMO within the first few weeks is not going to cut it. The latter population is who P2P MMO devs over the past several years have been trying to appeal to, in my view. And that's why they've failed. If someone can blast through and see all the best content, and acquire all the best rewards inside of a month, they're not gonna be hanging around when billing time comes. Why should they? They've seen/done all of the game's best/most interesting content. What's there to stick around for at that point? Of course they're going to cancel.
If there are enough long-term goals that are meaningful and, more importantly, fun for players to work toward, I think that would go a long way.
They also have to do more to get players involved as a community. I mean true community. Not just the people in their guild, or their own circle of friends. Get them out of their comfort zone. Provide events and such that encourages people to work together, to communicate and share in some valuable victories. SE was great at this with their seasonal events in XI, at least early on. You *had* to talk to others to team up and do some event together, and it was always fun (well, if such events were your thing to begin with).
People who played XI from early on might remember the event where you had to team up with 1 person of each Race/Gender other than your own, to be teleported to a high-level dungeon (Ifrit's Cauldron, Den of Rancor, etc), given an infinite Invis/Sneak and brought down to level 1. In there, you each had to locate an object on the ground (marked by a ?), then find each other and exchange those objects. That required communication and it really got people talking. It was a blast... not to mention scary as hell wandering as a naked level 1 (albeit undetectable) navigating around level 70+ mobs. I added several people to my friends list, one of which I still talk to to this day, 10 years later, solely on the strength of that one event.
FFXIV can absolutely work as a sub-based MMO. As can any MMO launched. They have to produce a quality experience that doesn't rush people through the content, and makes all - or at least most - of the content valuable in some way. It's here where many sub-based MMOs have failed, in my opinion. They resort to a revenue model that requires long-term engagement with the game, for a game that can be "finished" inside of a month. It just makes no sense.
There's also the kinds of quests they give. FFXI's quests were, in my opinion, truly quests. They weren't all "go kill 10 rabbits and return to me". There were some, but not many (FoV/GoV notwithstanding, as they were added later, and aren't a part of any actual story arc). They were actual adventures into new and dangerous areas. You had to explore dangerous dungeons, navigate around deadly mobs, sometimes much higher level than you, and in many cases, your best strategy was to avoid conflict at all cost. Just focus on the goal, and get back to the character you were helping. They all featured in-game cut-scenes, special music, etc. They made you feel as much "part of it" as a game possibly could. You weren't just standing there, skipping through a few paragraphs of text that ultimately meant nothing to anything you had to do.
If ARR's major storyline missions, at the very least, provide that same level of depth and involvement (a variety of actual goals to achieve, and not just killing a number of monsters, or collecting a number of items), then that would already be a large step in the right direction.
I don't think there has to be "more updates" necessarily. I think "fewer updates overall, but of higher quality and greater involvement" would do just as well, if not better.
There only has to be more if all the new content they add is do-able within a couple days, if not hours, allowing players to burn through it. .. They're designing a game with a revenue model that requires on-going month-to-month revenue from satisfied players. Then they design the game in complete contradiction to that, by making everything faster, easier and more immediate.
Another problem is that a lot of the content tends to be skip-able, with absolutely no detriment to the player (as in, they're not missing out on anything by avoiding it). Players never even have to touch it and, indeed, seldom do on their race to level cap.
I'm not saying they need to go back to the old days of "leveling to cap can happen no faster than a year". But I also think "level cap inside of a week" is just as ridiculous, if not moreso.
I realize they do that to appease the impatience and stunted attention span many players have. But they're also shooting themselves in the foot and undermining their own endeavor.
Subscription-based MMOs need a stable, loyal player base who's there for the long-haul to survive, if not thrive. A transient MMO-Hopping population who takes a quick spin through the revolving door and is off to their next MMO within the first few weeks is not going to cut it. The latter population is who P2P MMO devs over the past several years have been trying to appeal to, in my view. And that's why they've failed. If someone can blast through and see all the best content, and acquire all the best rewards inside of a month, they're not gonna be hanging around when billing time comes. Why should they?
FFXIV can absolutely work as a sub-based MMO. As can any MMO launched. They have to produce a quality experience that doesn't rush people through the content, and makes all - or at least most - of the content valuable in some way. It's here where many sub-based MMOs have failed, in my opinion. They resort to a revenue model that requires long-term engagement with the game, for a game that can be "finished" inside of a month. It just makes no sense.
You weren't just standing there, skipping through a few paragraphs of text that ultimately meant nothing to anything you had to do.
Sorry for cutting some text, as I wanted to focus on these parts only.
Not all content is designed to be fast and immediate, even if it can be. You can absolutely take it easy and let the content sink in even if the potential to rush to level cap in a week is there. It's the playerbase that chooses to play the game this way. In my opinion a developer is not to be blamed for giving that choice to the player. Taking it away will not magically make impatient people into patient people, nor change anything for those who are already taking their time in consuming the content.
As a developer you simply have to sell the game to the population that doesn't "race", does not "burn", does not think in "endgame lootz" mindset and is there to enjoy the game for what it is, on their own pace. This really does not involve taking away the option to race, burn and hunt loot in the endgame. All it involves is making the game interesting enough for the population that takes their time, while not being mechanically overwhelming. What is "interesting enough" varies from person to person and their background.
With an existing IP and an already existing demographic this is infinitely easier. You don't make the game to suit the people who even know what "race to level cap" and "raids" mean, you make the game for the existing demographic that will play the game as a product of an IP they are already a fan of. They will not skip, burn or rush because there is so many cool things to do and see.
There are millions and millions of Final Fantasy fans around the world. Many of them have not touched an MMO, thus they can enjoy the things MMO vets (like this forum) consider "been there, done that".
People won't skip content if they find it enjoyable and interesting. People won't rush to level cap if they find the progression itself meaningful. MMO vets can't even consider the thought of enjoying anything anymore. FF fans will find the game amazing, if SE can sell the game to them. It's the same case with WoW years back - while 12 million people are enjoying the Warcraft MMO and finding it interesting, MMO vets are on MMORPG.com complaining how it's an "EQ clone" and not enjoying it. It's all subjective at best. All SE needs are the people that aren't grumpy WoW/MMO vets looking for their next fix.
Using LOL is like saying "my argument sucks but I still want to disagree".
One of the things I love that Yoshida has done since taking over is taken transparency in development plans to an entirely new level for AAA MMO's (and for SE it is a miracle to see).
My hope is that after/slightly before launch they will launch a patch roadmap similar to the beta roadmap. With the credibility they gained from ARR's development I think this will convince a lot of people on the fence about whether "12/mo" is worth it to play an MMO (I can't believe anyone would invest time into an MMO but not money, but that's people I guess who just have time to burn and maybe don't have the balls to start a serious drug addiction even though it would make them a more interesting person than playing a f2p mmo).
im kinda pissed, i've bought a copy of FFXIV dvd, but i never used it. Now i cant register it anymore and it seems i will have to trash it. Square Enix TERRIBLE CS has sent me an automated email, as it seems, saying i'll have to buy the "new game" if i so desire to play.
A shame because i was kinda excited to play as the OP, i don't think this game will go as near WoW, but it's showing potential to be good and have a healthy playerbase, specially if they manage to do a good launch at ps3.
This is not true. If you have a registration code you weren't able to register in time, you will get the opportunity again nearer to the ARR launch. That will give you the ability to download the new client for free, and they are offering a 2 week welcome back campaign with free access for 1.x owners.
Originally posted by Ralstlin This thread title is incorrect.. too many people will enrage just to defend WoW.. the correct question could be: Will FFXIV surpass Rift, GW2 and TSW?
Obviously lore will be different and I am looking forward to this game more than any before (Well about the same as D3 but I have to wait much longer this time) but I am going in not expecting all that much difference mechanically than typical MMORPG's. I hope I'm wrong and that this game is immersive and keeps me hooked. My subscription for 180 days all depends on the first month of playtime
I so hope FF dilvers, cant wait for the NDA to be lifted and see some contend ! Checking me mail every day to check if iam invited for CB3 or need to wait for Open Beta :P
But from what ive seen so far its looking pretty solid allround. And FF is diffrent then any other mmo as they mostly have a pretty great fanbase. Reaching all around the world
But they have been hit pretty hard with their latest games they where defently not of the quality we would expect from SE.... How many players they lost is always hard to determine, but if they manage to doilver we might be looking at one fine specimen :P
What a ridiculous post. ARR will not even get 10% of what WoW has in terms of numbers.
And if referring to the quality of game there has already been a ton of better games then WoW and you would be implying WoW was ever a good game.
The crafting system is not in anyway "deep" it is just long and at times a monotonous process, this will anything but attract people, especially not "WoW" people who will get bored of crafting in a second.
ARR is very likely to be another floptastic mess. Very few people will be willing to put money on the line for what was a disaster.
sorry to tell ya dude, but wow still has the best game engine of the mmos released.
no matter how much you love it or hate it - the engine is running smooth like fuck and the combat and skills are basically INSTANT, unlike many other mmos.
name me one better game than wow. rift, aoc, TSW, gw2. their engines can't reach what blizzard managed to achieve with WoW's gameplay. no matter how good they are.
"I'll never grow up, never grow up, never grow up! Not me!"
Might be so, but at the time wow released there wasnt realy much choice other then a few good one's. Today the market is seeded and lots of people play diffrent mmo's.
Add to the fact that WoW EU+USA had around 4/5 million people at the top the rest was Asian. Still Wow reached that number with basicly offering asian people a free to play WoW... Or you all think they payed 15 dollars / 14 euro a month ? They payed a few cent per hour tops :P
But still WoW pushed the genre to a new level no doubt about that. Their engine had lots of troubles tough, i was there when it launched and i agree that its still ok many years later, but it shows its age...
This is also not a post about GREATER THEN WOW but GREATEST MMO >>>SINCE<<< WOW <----
And only time will tell, Asia has a market much more competitive then us western market. I heared Archeage already is Free to Play or is going Free to Play, it shows that even good mmo's wont surive subs anymore.... Still FF takes the route of the hardest resistance and i hope they have agreat succes
Like the warcraft series Final fantasy also has its own fanbase, so they should at least hit a succes with those players alone. If they manage to pull in mmo dwellers and even attract mmo players that are bored with their current mmo who knows where it end
Its a long shot and it there wmight not be an mmo that reach so many players like wow did, but dont mix up 12.7 million peak from wow with subs as that is a flat out marketing lie !
If FFXIV:ARR has a good release, and is able to attract and retain players - which many will be exposed to ARR for the first time at E3 - and SE is obviously making a big deal of ARR by putting it at E3 with FFXIII-3 and (maybe) FFXV for next gen.
Then the Final Fantasy player base will be interested in ARR.
FFXIII sold 6.6 million copies world wide as of January 2013.
FFXIII-2 sold 3 million copies world wide as of the same.
FFXIII-3 is coming out in August.
A truly next gen FFXV will sell millions.
ARR has a good shot of selling 1 million copies on re-release.
Even with 50% retention, it'd be probably #2 or #3 in the west.
That would be a huge win for SE., and they are obviously investing a lot of $$ and people in the re-make to make that possible.
If FFXIV:ARR has a good release, and is able to attract and retain players - which many will be exposed to ARR for the first time at E3 - and SE is obviously making a big deal of ARR by putting it at E3 with FFXIII-3 and (maybe) FFXV for next gen.
Then the Final Fantasy player base will be interested in ARR.
FFXIII sold 6.6 million copies world wide as of January 2013.
FFXIII-2 sold 3 million copies world wide as of the same.
FFXIII-3 is coming out in August.
A truly next gen FFXV will sell millions.
ARR has a good shot of selling 1 million copies on re-release.
Even with 50% retention, it'd be probably #2 or #3 in the west.
That would be a huge win for SE., and they are obviously investing a lot of $$ and people in the re-make to make that possible.
chances are the best hope the game has for sales is from the console/ps3 crowd, i really doubt it will get even 500k PC sales, this is after all a game thats trying to relaunch after a miserably poor initial launch, and no matter how much Square have managed to improve the game, its going to be a monumental task to change peoples opinions of it, and thats only if the game really is a lot better than the original, it also has an additional hurdle to leap in that its also now a PS3 game, and the number of games that are reasonable console ports are, very very few. Only problem is, PS3 owners and probably more than a few xbox 360 owners will be saving their money to buy a PS4, so they might well be tempted to hang fire on buying a ps3 version of FFXIV in favour of getting the PS4 version when its released. These are factors that could well cripple FFXIV;ARR before it even clears the starting gates.
Originally posted by tkreep Originally posted by XzitoGame failed once , evne the remake wont save it, grapgics are medicore gameplay is quite boring.end /rant
You lost me at graphics are mediocre...compared to which mmo?
Agreed. The Graphics are so far above par.
Just because I'm a gamer doesn't mean I drive a Honda.
I am in Beta and I have played V1 . V1 and ARR are two different games. The plot might be somewhat the same . The world and cities are the same but the game over all is different . Very very different . When Phase 4 is out go play it phase 4 is open beta . I will also be streaming the game live on my LS website and twitch when we can . A lot of people are going to say OMG when they finally get to play it.
Is the questing the same as 1.0? You know, hub quests and insta-ports back to town after the quest was done? I found that to be very un-immersive and gave the game a grindy feel.
Dont forget open beta, if this game delivers it will reach lots and lots of forums wich inrease interest to a whole new level. Old players can play for free i heared so they get a chanse to see if they like it or not. SE is put everything they have to make this a succes.
From what they show it looks good. NDA is still active so its shit to hear news from hardcore fans instead of critics. But NDA or not if this game would not deliver i think we can asume even NDA players would leak stuff and warn for another failure.
With that said and the upcomming Beta 3 + E3 + Open Beta they show us players that this remake will be top notch. I have no clue how much people played previous FF mmo's i think you have FF 11 and FF XIV version 1.0 as mmo's ? I totaly skipped those 2 as it just dint look like a "good" mmo to play, this one tough has got my interest shooting trough the roof.
Even my wife was checking it out as she loves crafting, and it seems FF will deliver quite some stuff on that compared to other mmo's. Myself is looking forward to do dungeons / explore / and praying Yoshi can pull some extremely competitive pvp out.
Is the questing the same as 1.0? You know, hub quests and insta-ports back to town after the quest was done? I found that to be very un-immersive and gave the game a grindy feel.
From what I understand, the main story leads you by the nose, each area has it's own series of quests, and there are a ton of random one-off quests out in the world - not necessarily from quest hubs.
The levequests are totally different, and are more like dailies and yes they still do teleport you back to town after finished.
There are 3 major "paths" associated with the 3 major cities.
But there are not enough quests to level each and every job from 1 - 50 no matter what you do, so you will end up using FATE's, dungeons, and repeatable levequests.
Sounds like grinding mobs for XP is not much of an option, but you can set the difficulty of your levequests to require a group and that is a supposedly a very efficient means to level.
This all all going off of second hand information that has been made publicly available.
Originally posted by Ralstlin This thread title is incorrect.. too many people will enrage just to defend WoW.. the correct question could be: Will FFXIV surpass Rift, GW2 and TSW?
I doubt it. Well, maybe TSW. That's pretty easy.
Oh I think it will outdistance all of those.... of course that isn't saying much. It has a lot of depth and longevity to it. The IP also has a huge following. The only factor is that it isn't B2P like TSW and GW2. Hopefully the quality of it will more than make up for it....
James T. Kirk: All she's got isn't good enough! What else ya got?
Originally posted by Ralstlin This thread title is incorrect.. too many people will enrage just to defend WoW.. the correct question could be: Will FFXIV surpass Rift, GW2 and TSW?
I doubt it. Well, maybe TSW. That's pretty easy.
Oh I think it will outdistance all of those.... of course that isn't saying much. It has a lot of depth and longevity to it. The IP also has a huge following. The only factor is that it isn't B2P like TSW and GW2. Hopefully the quality of it will more than make up for it....
GW2 storyline is childish. Any MMO with good thoughtful story can beat GW2 without any effort.
"The problem is that the hardcore folks always want the same thing: 'We want exactly what you gave us before, but it has to be completely different.' -Jesse Schell
"Online gamers are the most ludicrously entitled beings since Caligula made his horse a senator, and at least the horse never said anything stupid." -Luke McKinney
the success of final fantasy 14 will depend on the reviews...if the game gets like 9.0 reviews from multiples sites people will flock to it...if it gets like 6.5 and 7 then most will probably pass on it.. im sure also there will be plenty of ads everywhere so whoever logs on to gaming sites will know about it...
i really hope its good. dont know when eso or wildstar will be out...if this game is great then no reason to play the other ones.
Despite the energy that has been put into this game, ARR is releasing at the end of a life cycle for this particular type/style of MMO. All indications so far point to it not doing enough 'new' or 'exciting' things to warrant a large amount of excitement with the game when compared with the two big names also coming out soon (being Wildstar and EQNext) from a pure entertainment perspective. A fan of the series might find energy to stay with the game and explore what it has to offer. But the average western player will likely not find engaging due to the more long term fulfilling 'sandboxy' focus the other games are promising without the stigma of the previous failure added on top.
In the eastern markets I imagine it will be much more successful, but even then a niche game, due to increased competition from other more current games such as Archeage and other similar titles.
Hmm that might be true ^^ But looking at the game it has all the features modern mmo's have. Its main selling point is not that its new !!! its the Final Fantasy IP !!! So just like WoW who had major fans from the old RTS warcraft series Final fantasy has old RPG fans looking forward to play that game.
It just needs to pcik up some mainstream gamers who stream and they might even pull off something epic. I havent played it, i dint even seen enough footage to make a "complete" verdict about how good or bad FF ARR is.
But if this game manage to pick up mainstream gamers the servers might fill up nicely. No1 is excpecting 10 million people here Unlike all those other studio''s and their "fanboys"claiming it would beat WoW etc etc.
I realy think FF just have one hell of a community...not the selfish egoistic flamebaiters we have seen all before. It has a hardcore playerbase of old FF RPG fans.
Sure getting 2 million subs or even more is great ! but it seems 1 million is enough to call it a major succes.
Beta Phase 3 lifts the NDA and we should see alot more stuff being showed. Open Beta might suprise even (none) final fantasy players who might realy like that universe. Once that (ball) is going to roll it migt do rpetty wicked things
Mark my words. FFXIV ARR will be the greatest mmo since vanilla WoW. Consider my reasons for this claim. Unlike any other mmo, FFXIV will be released world wide Aug.27 on both PC and PS3. With over 70 million PS3 units sold imagine how many people walking into walmart or gamestop looking for a roleplaying game will be attracted to this title. FFXI at its peak had 500k members and it was predominantly on PS2. Even if only 1% of all PS3 owners buy FFXIV thats over 700k subscribers on console alone. Know that FFXIV will also be released on PS4. We all know how cautious we can be when buying first gen games for new consoles. Imagine how comforting the Final Fantasy name will be to people looking for games in that genre. Then there all the FFXI and FFXIV 1.0 people who will want to give ARR a try. Plus how many WoW and GW2 players arent really that happy with the current state of their gaming.
For new players playing their very first mmo ARR has a VERY friendly learning curve. Veteran players have even complained that it was too easy. However it has been confirmed that as you progress towards endgame the games challenges become more daunting. To the point of having to quit ones job in order to devote all of ones time to the game just to "first achieve" the games endgame rewards. There is also the ability to progress smoothly in game through both solo and group play.
It is commonly known that 1.0 had one of the deepest crafting systems in all mmos. This will be retained in 2.0, plus a crafting driven economy. Add a combination of 16 classes and jobs to choose from at release. Along with 18+ dungeons that range from easy to extremely hard. Player housing. Deep storylines.A beautiful soundtrack and the best graphics of any mmo to date. Plus one can really become attached to whatever character you create because one toon can be any and every job. So goodbye Alts.
Then theres the attraction for the ladies. In-game marriage. Ceremony and everything.(yes wedding gowns) Being able to dress up ones mount in various outfits. Minions or pets that walk along beside you. And man some of these are pretty impressive. Yes I know these can be found in several mmos, but none of them look as good as these. Imagine a hand clad in a mickey mouse glove that follows you pointing at stuff. Then theres the outfits. Anything from full body armor, to dresses with purses filled flowers, to bikinis. Finally the ability to craft items for your house. Anything from wallpaper to roofing. And the ability to mount the heads of monsters you've slain over your fireplace to show off for you guest.
All of these things and many more have me convinced that this will be the greatest mmo in years and possibly for years to come.
I just don't see it happening. They wanted to make a more casual version of FFXI, and to do so would require some sacrifice of the economy. That really isn't a good thing if they didn't shift the focus to some kind of competitive raiding (aka WOW).
How exactly are they going to convince new players to play if previous players keep their progression?
Mark my words. FFXIV ARR will be the greatest mmo since vanilla WoW. Consider my reasons for this claim. Unlike any other mmo, FFXIV will be released world wide Aug.27 on both PC and PS3. With over 70 million PS3 units sold imagine how many people walking into walmart or gamestop looking for a roleplaying game will be attracted to this title. FFXI at its peak had 500k members and it was predominantly on PS2. Even if only 1% of all PS3 owners buy FFXIV thats over 700k subscribers on console alone. Know that FFXIV will also be released on PS4. We all know how cautious we can be when buying first gen games for new consoles. Imagine how comforting the Final Fantasy name will be to people looking for games in that genre. Then there all the FFXI and FFXIV 1.0 people who will want to give ARR a try. Plus how many WoW and GW2 players arent really that happy with the current state of their gaming.
For new players playing their very first mmo ARR has a VERY friendly learning curve. Veteran players have even complained that it was too easy. However it has been confirmed that as you progress towards endgame the games challenges become more daunting. To the point of having to quit ones job in order to devote all of ones time to the game just to "first achieve" the games endgame rewards. There is also the ability to progress smoothly in game through both solo and group play.
It is commonly known that 1.0 had one of the deepest crafting systems in all mmos. This will be retained in 2.0, plus a crafting driven economy. Add a combination of 16 classes and jobs to choose from at release. Along with 18+ dungeons that range from easy to extremely hard. Player housing. Deep storylines.A beautiful soundtrack and the best graphics of any mmo to date. Plus one can really become attached to whatever character you create because one toon can be any and every job. So goodbye Alts.
Then theres the attraction for the ladies. In-game marriage. Ceremony and everything.(yes wedding gowns) Being able to dress up ones mount in various outfits. Minions or pets that walk along beside you. And man some of these are pretty impressive. Yes I know these can be found in several mmos, but none of them look as good as these. Imagine a hand clad in a mickey mouse glove that follows you pointing at stuff. Then theres the outfits. Anything from full body armor, to dresses with purses filled flowers, to bikinis. Finally the ability to craft items for your house. Anything from wallpaper to roofing. And the ability to mount the heads of monsters you've slain over your fireplace to show off for you guest.
All of these things and many more have me convinced that this will be the greatest mmo in years and possibly for years to come.
-1 imo this game will not draw people to it due to problems in the past.
Comments
That would be their opinion, or what it would need to be successful to them. SE hasn't actually stated what their requirements are.
I don't think there has to be "more updates" necessarily. I think "fewer updates overall, but of higher quality and greater involvement" would do just as well, if not better.
There only has to be more if all the new content they add is do-able within a couple days, if not hours, allowing players to burn through it. That's the problem, as I see it, with many Sub-based MMOs in recent years. They're designing a game with a revenue model that requires on-going month-to-month revenue from satisfied players. Then they design the game in complete contradiction to that, by making everything faster, easier and more immediate.
Another problem is that a lot of the content tends to be skip-able, with absolutely no detriment to the player (as in, they're not missing out on anything by avoiding it). Players never even have to touch it and, indeed, seldom do on their race to level cap. Make the content more meaningful, make it more interesting, and make it require more time and thought to complete.
I'm not saying they need to go back to the old days of "leveling to cap can happen no faster than a year". But I also think "level cap inside of a week" is just as ridiculous, if not moreso. And hell, at least if someone's taking a year to reach cap, they're actually spending time in the game and playing it for all those months.
They need to make content matter more. Quality over Quantity. They need to stop feeling obligated to make content that can be rushed through in a matter of hours of its release. I realize they do that to appease the impatience and stunted attention span many players have. But they're also shooting themselves in the foot and undermining their own endeavor.
Subscription-based MMOs need a stable, loyal player base who's there for the long-haul to survive, if not thrive. A transient MMO-Hopping population who takes a quick spin through the revolving door and is off to their next MMO within the first few weeks is not going to cut it. The latter population is who P2P MMO devs over the past several years have been trying to appeal to, in my view. And that's why they've failed. If someone can blast through and see all the best content, and acquire all the best rewards inside of a month, they're not gonna be hanging around when billing time comes. Why should they? They've seen/done all of the game's best/most interesting content. What's there to stick around for at that point? Of course they're going to cancel.
If there are enough long-term goals that are meaningful and, more importantly, fun for players to work toward, I think that would go a long way.
They also have to do more to get players involved as a community. I mean true community. Not just the people in their guild, or their own circle of friends. Get them out of their comfort zone. Provide events and such that encourages people to work together, to communicate and share in some valuable victories. SE was great at this with their seasonal events in XI, at least early on. You *had* to talk to others to team up and do some event together, and it was always fun (well, if such events were your thing to begin with).
People who played XI from early on might remember the event where you had to team up with 1 person of each Race/Gender other than your own, to be teleported to a high-level dungeon (Ifrit's Cauldron, Den of Rancor, etc), given an infinite Invis/Sneak and brought down to level 1. In there, you each had to locate an object on the ground (marked by a ?), then find each other and exchange those objects. That required communication and it really got people talking. It was a blast... not to mention scary as hell wandering as a naked level 1 (albeit undetectable) navigating around level 70+ mobs. I added several people to my friends list, one of which I still talk to to this day, 10 years later, solely on the strength of that one event.
FFXIV can absolutely work as a sub-based MMO. As can any MMO launched. They have to produce a quality experience that doesn't rush people through the content, and makes all - or at least most - of the content valuable in some way. It's here where many sub-based MMOs have failed, in my opinion. They resort to a revenue model that requires long-term engagement with the game, for a game that can be "finished" inside of a month. It just makes no sense.
There's also the kinds of quests they give. FFXI's quests were, in my opinion, truly quests. They weren't all "go kill 10 rabbits and return to me". There were some, but not many (FoV/GoV notwithstanding, as they were added later, and aren't a part of any actual story arc). They were actual adventures into new and dangerous areas. You had to explore dangerous dungeons, navigate around deadly mobs, sometimes much higher level than you, and in many cases, your best strategy was to avoid conflict at all cost. Just focus on the goal, and get back to the character you were helping. They all featured in-game cut-scenes, special music, etc. They made you feel as much "part of it" as a game possibly could. You weren't just standing there, skipping through a few paragraphs of text that ultimately meant nothing to anything you had to do.
If ARR's major storyline missions, at the very least, provide that same level of depth and involvement (a variety of actual goals to achieve, and not just killing a number of monsters, or collecting a number of items), then that would already be a large step in the right direction.
....Being Banned from MMORPG's forums since 2010, for Trolling the Trolls!!!
Sorry for cutting some text, as I wanted to focus on these parts only.
Not all content is designed to be fast and immediate, even if it can be. You can absolutely take it easy and let the content sink in even if the potential to rush to level cap in a week is there. It's the playerbase that chooses to play the game this way. In my opinion a developer is not to be blamed for giving that choice to the player. Taking it away will not magically make impatient people into patient people, nor change anything for those who are already taking their time in consuming the content.
As a developer you simply have to sell the game to the population that doesn't "race", does not "burn", does not think in "endgame lootz" mindset and is there to enjoy the game for what it is, on their own pace. This really does not involve taking away the option to race, burn and hunt loot in the endgame. All it involves is making the game interesting enough for the population that takes their time, while not being mechanically overwhelming. What is "interesting enough" varies from person to person and their background.
With an existing IP and an already existing demographic this is infinitely easier. You don't make the game to suit the people who even know what "race to level cap" and "raids" mean, you make the game for the existing demographic that will play the game as a product of an IP they are already a fan of. They will not skip, burn or rush because there is so many cool things to do and see.
There are millions and millions of Final Fantasy fans around the world. Many of them have not touched an MMO, thus they can enjoy the things MMO vets (like this forum) consider "been there, done that".
People won't skip content if they find it enjoyable and interesting. People won't rush to level cap if they find the progression itself meaningful. MMO vets can't even consider the thought of enjoying anything anymore. FF fans will find the game amazing, if SE can sell the game to them. It's the same case with WoW years back - while 12 million people are enjoying the Warcraft MMO and finding it interesting, MMO vets are on MMORPG.com complaining how it's an "EQ clone" and not enjoying it. It's all subjective at best. All SE needs are the people that aren't grumpy WoW/MMO vets looking for their next fix.
One of the things I love that Yoshida has done since taking over is taken transparency in development plans to an entirely new level for AAA MMO's (and for SE it is a miracle to see).
My hope is that after/slightly before launch they will launch a patch roadmap similar to the beta roadmap. With the credibility they gained from ARR's development I think this will convince a lot of people on the fence about whether "12/mo" is worth it to play an MMO (I can't believe anyone would invest time into an MMO but not money, but that's people I guess who just have time to burn and maybe don't have the balls to start a serious drug addiction even though it would make them a more interesting person than playing a f2p mmo).
http://xivpads.com/?1595680
http://guildwork.com/users/murugan
This is not true. If you have a registration code you weren't able to register in time, you will get the opportunity again nearer to the ARR launch. That will give you the ability to download the new client for free, and they are offering a 2 week welcome back campaign with free access for 1.x owners.
I doubt it. Well, maybe TSW. That's pretty easy.
aye indeed ^^
I so hope FF dilvers, cant wait for the NDA to be lifted and see some contend !
Checking me mail every day to check if iam invited for CB3 or need to wait for Open Beta :P
But from what ive seen so far its looking pretty solid allround.
And FF is diffrent then any other mmo as they mostly have a pretty great fanbase.
Reaching all around the world
But they have been hit pretty hard with their latest games they where defently not of the quality we would expect from SE....
How many players they lost is always hard to determine, but if they manage to doilver we might be looking at one fine specimen :P
sorry to tell ya dude, but wow still has the best game engine of the mmos released.
no matter how much you love it or hate it - the engine is running smooth like fuck and the combat and skills are basically INSTANT, unlike many other mmos.
name me one better game than wow. rift, aoc, TSW, gw2. their engines can't reach what blizzard managed to achieve with WoW's gameplay. no matter how good they are.
"I'll never grow up, never grow up, never grow up! Not me!"
Might be so, but at the time wow released there wasnt realy much choice other then a few good one's.
Today the market is seeded and lots of people play diffrent mmo's.
Add to the fact that WoW EU+USA had around 4/5 million people at the top the rest was Asian.
Still Wow reached that number with basicly offering asian people a free to play WoW...
Or you all think they payed 15 dollars / 14 euro a month ?
They payed a few cent per hour tops :P
But still WoW pushed the genre to a new level no doubt about that.
Their engine had lots of troubles tough, i was there when it launched and i agree that its still ok many years later, but it shows its age...
This is also not a post about GREATER THEN WOW but GREATEST MMO >>>SINCE<<< WOW <----
And only time will tell, Asia has a market much more competitive then us western market.
I heared Archeage already is Free to Play or is going Free to Play, it shows that even good mmo's wont surive subs anymore....
Still FF takes the route of the hardest resistance and i hope they have agreat succes
Like the warcraft series Final fantasy also has its own fanbase, so they should at least hit a succes with those players alone.
If they manage to pull in mmo dwellers and even attract mmo players that are bored with their current mmo who knows where it end
Its a long shot and it there wmight not be an mmo that reach so many players like wow did, but dont mix up 12.7 million peak from wow with subs as that is a flat out marketing lie !
If FFXIV:ARR has a good release, and is able to attract and retain players - which many will be exposed to ARR for the first time at E3 - and SE is obviously making a big deal of ARR by putting it at E3 with FFXIII-3 and (maybe) FFXV for next gen.
Then the Final Fantasy player base will be interested in ARR.
FFXIII sold 6.6 million copies world wide as of January 2013.
FFXIII-2 sold 3 million copies world wide as of the same.
FFXIII-3 is coming out in August.
A truly next gen FFXV will sell millions.
ARR has a good shot of selling 1 million copies on re-release.
Even with 50% retention, it'd be probably #2 or #3 in the west.
That would be a huge win for SE., and they are obviously investing a lot of $$ and people in the re-make to make that possible.
chances are the best hope the game has for sales is from the console/ps3 crowd, i really doubt it will get even 500k PC sales, this is after all a game thats trying to relaunch after a miserably poor initial launch, and no matter how much Square have managed to improve the game, its going to be a monumental task to change peoples opinions of it, and thats only if the game really is a lot better than the original, it also has an additional hurdle to leap in that its also now a PS3 game, and the number of games that are reasonable console ports are, very very few. Only problem is, PS3 owners and probably more than a few xbox 360 owners will be saving their money to buy a PS4, so they might well be tempted to hang fire on buying a ps3 version of FFXIV in favour of getting the PS4 version when its released. These are factors that could well cripple FFXIV;ARR before it even clears the starting gates.
Agreed. The Graphics are so far above par.
Lets see your Battle Stations /r/battlestations
Battle Station
Is the questing the same as 1.0? You know, hub quests and insta-ports back to town after the quest was done? I found that to be very un-immersive and gave the game a grindy feel.
Dont forget open beta, if this game delivers it will reach lots and lots of forums wich inrease interest to a whole new level.
Old players can play for free i heared so they get a chanse to see if they like it or not.
SE is put everything they have to make this a succes.
From what they show it looks good.
NDA is still active so its shit to hear news from hardcore fans instead of critics.
But NDA or not if this game would not deliver i think we can asume even NDA players would leak stuff and warn for another failure.
With that said and the upcomming Beta 3 + E3 + Open Beta they show us players that this remake will be top notch.
I have no clue how much people played previous FF mmo's i think you have FF 11 and FF XIV version 1.0 as mmo's ?
I totaly skipped those 2 as it just dint look like a "good" mmo to play, this one tough has got my interest shooting trough the roof.
Even my wife was checking it out as she loves crafting, and it seems FF will deliver quite some stuff on that compared to other mmo's.
Myself is looking forward to do dungeons / explore / and praying Yoshi can pull some extremely competitive pvp out.
From what I understand, the main story leads you by the nose, each area has it's own series of quests, and there are a ton of random one-off quests out in the world - not necessarily from quest hubs.
The levequests are totally different, and are more like dailies and yes they still do teleport you back to town after finished.
There are 3 major "paths" associated with the 3 major cities.
But there are not enough quests to level each and every job from 1 - 50 no matter what you do, so you will end up using FATE's, dungeons, and repeatable levequests.
Sounds like grinding mobs for XP is not much of an option, but you can set the difficulty of your levequests to require a group and that is a supposedly a very efficient means to level.
This all all going off of second hand information that has been made publicly available.
I am not in beta - yet! (hopefully)
Oh I think it will outdistance all of those.... of course that isn't saying much. It has a lot of depth and longevity to it. The IP also has a huge following. The only factor is that it isn't B2P like TSW and GW2. Hopefully the quality of it will more than make up for it....
James T. Kirk: All she's got isn't good enough! What else ya got?
GW2 storyline is childish. Any MMO with good thoughtful story can beat GW2 without any effort.
"The problem is that the hardcore folks always want the same thing: 'We want exactly what you gave us before, but it has to be completely different.'
-Jesse Schell
"Online gamers are the most ludicrously entitled beings since Caligula made his horse a senator, and at least the horse never said anything stupid."
-Luke McKinney
the success of final fantasy 14 will depend on the reviews...if the game gets like 9.0 reviews from multiples sites people will flock to it...if it gets like 6.5 and 7 then most will probably pass on it.. im sure also there will be plenty of ads everywhere so whoever logs on to gaming sites will know about it...
i really hope its good. dont know when eso or wildstar will be out...if this game is great then no reason to play the other ones.
Despite the energy that has been put into this game, ARR is releasing at the end of a life cycle for this particular type/style of MMO. All indications so far point to it not doing enough 'new' or 'exciting' things to warrant a large amount of excitement with the game when compared with the two big names also coming out soon (being Wildstar and EQNext) from a pure entertainment perspective. A fan of the series might find energy to stay with the game and explore what it has to offer. But the average western player will likely not find engaging due to the more long term fulfilling 'sandboxy' focus the other games are promising without the stigma of the previous failure added on top.
In the eastern markets I imagine it will be much more successful, but even then a niche game, due to increased competition from other more current games such as Archeage and other similar titles.
Hmm that might be true ^^
But looking at the game it has all the features modern mmo's have.
Its main selling point is not that its new !!! its the Final Fantasy IP !!!
So just like WoW who had major fans from the old RTS warcraft series Final fantasy has old RPG fans looking forward to play that game.
It just needs to pcik up some mainstream gamers who stream and they might even pull off something epic.
I havent played it, i dint even seen enough footage to make a "complete" verdict about how good or bad FF ARR is.
But if this game manage to pick up mainstream gamers the servers might fill up nicely.
No1 is excpecting 10 million people here
Unlike all those other studio''s and their "fanboys"claiming it would beat WoW etc etc.
I realy think FF just have one hell of a community...not the selfish egoistic flamebaiters we have seen all before.
It has a hardcore playerbase of old FF RPG fans.
Sure getting 2 million subs or even more is great ! but it seems 1 million is enough to call it a major succes.
Beta Phase 3 lifts the NDA and we should see alot more stuff being showed.
Open Beta might suprise even (none) final fantasy players who might realy like that universe.
Once that (ball) is going to roll it migt do rpetty wicked things
You had these threads the first time around as well, look at how that turned out.
I wish it all the best, but it isn't even in the ballpark for getting WoW subscribers, or discovering a new kind of niche.
Feel free to use my referral link for SW:TOR if you want to test out the game. You'll get some special unlocks!
I just don't see it happening. They wanted to make a more casual version of FFXI, and to do so would require some sacrifice of the economy. That really isn't a good thing if they didn't shift the focus to some kind of competitive raiding (aka WOW).
How exactly are they going to convince new players to play if previous players keep their progression?
-1 imo this game will not draw people to it due to problems in the past.
Asbo