You obviously have not read YoshiP's interview. He has stated that the FASTEST way to level is in a group. I also am in Beta and I can tell you that when I group I get XP Much faster than solo. SO you can sit here and say people are going to solo all the time, not true. In Beta groups were popping up left and right for Leve and even basic questing.
The fastest way to level in WoW is through grouping for like 90% of the leveling process. This does encourage people to group while leveling, but people go solo all the time as well. In SWTOR, when the game was launched, everyone was grouping for those elite star missions or whatever, but as is with most MMORPGs, the population spread out and people stopped running those missions altogether.
Just because grouping is faster (how much faster is an important piece of information), it doesn't mean that it's going to be more group oriented while leveling - especially if it's only 10% faster and you are able to accomplish leveling solo at a fairly fast pace. Without knowing the actual difference in pacing, I don't think anyone can call it more group oriented while leveling than any other game out there.
Lots of ignorant statements on this thread but this one may take the cake. I understand that many have not seen the pacing difference, but Yoshi-P already stated the quests which reward significant xp for your first class 1-50 won't be repeatable. And this game requires multiple 50's to maximizing effectiveness at a role in the trinity.
I don't really know where to start but i guess i'll begin by outlining the difference between a western developed game vs an eastern. The leveling process in WoW/Swtor coming from an old school FFxi vet were a joke to me. Stupid easy. People in NA tend to stay away from eastern games and label them "grindfests" because actually maxing out your character can be egregious. Thus group play allows players to circumvent many of these aspects and increase their rate of progress significantly. Not to mention forming bonds with skillful players/crafters is essential for challenging down the road content.
Also strong player-driven economies promote those of us who enjoy being wealthy in such a game an incentive to reach end-game and sustain funds via crafting/gathering/farming since FF titles always do a great job of incorporating all three of these roles as being vital to attaining the best gear.
Long story short those who group will have competitive advantage, thus the basics required for group-play incentive in an mmo.
You want to solo everything that's fine but those players like myself who actively met people and joined ls's in 1.0 found the game less daunting and more enjoyable.
P.S for those earlier who used the term spamfest and were refering to this game's combat system, phase 3 hasn't even been released yet, and people are speculating on their experience in early levels in which questing/solo'ing is more encouraged to learn the game basics (not to mention your ability pool is laughable in comparison to someone with 3 level 50's). People are purely speculating and bashing a game because they 2 shot a squirrel at level 25 and think the games a mindless spamfest. Newsflash you start with 1000 tp, when you actually hit 50 and have to coordinate your ability sequencing for limit breaks and resource management with your teammates to actually beat an NM, than you'll understand for the first time how this games group-oriented design was intended.
It's true that what I said was based in ignorance. My post even states that I don't know and no one actually described the difference in pacing between the two forms of leveling up.
However, you still haven't really addressed the pacing of leveling up solo vs grouped in any any definable way. You just say Asian games take longer to level up and so you have to group. Well, that generalization is often true. For instance, I played FFXI and it was insanely group dependent. But that doesn't mean anything for this V2 overhaul. Actually, if anything, people have been saying this is a much more solo friendly game than any previous version of FF MMORPGs.
Notorious monsters take group coordination. Well, ok. But that says nothing about the leveling experience. You need to group up for all bosses in other games as well.
Thanks for the news flash and all, but I have no idea why you went into limit breaks, mindless spam fests or how many 50s you need to actually be on a somewhat level playing field. Is this what a beginner has to look forward to? Being completely underpowered and depending on others to power level them? Are you able to do solo limit breaks btw?
Is it bashing a game to say it will be more solo friendly than previous iterations of the series? I mean, you wax on about how group oriented it is, but what I've read about it says that they wanted it to be easier for solo people than in FFXI. Did they change their mind on this? Is it extremely hard for soloers to progress in this game to the point of frustration like in FFXI?
Address the pacing of leveling up solo vs group in any DEFINABLE way?
Do you read your contradictions?
Let me keep it simple its beta phase 2 wait until later before you ask for people to define anything about what 2.0 will offer that's DEFINABLE in terms of pace.
I gave you very reasonable facts as to why this game is more group-oriented in its design than many mmo's sorry you want the moon and the stars.
Oh and for your obviously agenda-filled rant about beginners suddenly having nothing to look forward, never once did i state that as such.
Yes this game gives you long term goals and progress (sorry thats a bad thing and you want newbies to join and be superpowered? I guess thats why f2p is on the rise) however it has already been stated multiple times it will be more solo-friendly than say FF11, that doesn't change my point on competitive advantage which was simply stated i thought.
Beginners can look forward to a system that gets bashed for being too easy and spamfest, yet at the same time will also be bashed as a grindfest where you need multiple 50's. Damned if you do damned if you don't, i say props to SE for making a challenging, long term game.
Address the pacing of leveling up solo vs group in any DEFINABLE way?
There isn't a contradiction. As I said in my first post, part of the problem is that we don't know the difference between leveling speeds and therefor can't really make a value assessment on this yet. However, here we have you going on and on about why it will be so much faster and more group oriented than all the other MMOs. Maybe it will be, but until we actually know how easy it is to level solo vs grouping, all of what you said is essentially useless when considering how group oriented leveling will be in practice.
Do you read your contradictions?
Let me keep it simple its beta phase 2 wait until later before you ask for people to define anything about what 2.0 will offer that's DEFINABLE in terms of pace.
I gave you very reasonable facts as to why this game is more group-oriented in its design than many mmo's sorry you want the moon and the stars.
Facts. Well, you said that you have to coordinate limit breaks. Other than that, it looks like a game where you group up to do dungeons, bosses and big quests. It's cool that you need to coordinate for limit breaks, but that doesn't mean that solo play won't be more popular than group play while leveling.
Oh and for your obviously agenda-filled rant about beginners suddenly having nothing to look forward, never once did i state that as such.
Meh, I could accuse you of delivering an agenda filled rant. I never said that they have nothing to look forward to. I asked if what a beginner has to look forward to is being power leveled by someone with multiple level 50s. And I was really talking about later on in the game's lifespan after everyone has moved up.
Yes this game gives you long term goals and progress (sorry thats a bad thing and you want newbies to join and be superpowered? I guess thats why f2p is on the rise) however it has already been stated multiple times it will be more solo-friendly than say FF11, that doesn't change my point on competitive advantage which was simply stated i thought.
I'm not sure why you would think I want newbies to be superpowered. I don't. I also have no clue what that has to do with F2P. If it's more solo friendly, then I'd say I was at least half right. I mean, they wouldn't just say that and then make grouping like 1000% better, would they?
Beginners can look forward to a system that gets bashed for being too easy and spamfest, yet at the same time will also be bashed as a grindfest where you need multiple 50's. Damned if you do damned if you don't, i say props to SE for making a challenging, long term game.
Is it challenging though? Or are you just making assumptions based on previous versions? That's really the heart of this. In an interest to make things more fun for players and therefor hopefully retain more subs, is solo play going to be viable enough that over half the people rarely feel like grouping? I don't think you know the answer to this (no matter how much you would like to pretend you know). You even admit that we can't know because they are changing rates between BETA 2 and BETA 3.
I don't know how this got so heated. The OP never stated it's going to beat WoW. They said it's going to be the best game that has some out since WoW, meaning it'll be better than every other MMO in the last 8 years.
Originally posted by Homitu
FF14 is virtually doomed to fail before it even (re)launches, despite whatever good publicity it manages to muster from some of its (somehow) most loyal fans. They're simply fighting a losing numbers battle. Nearly all the people who were/are interested in the next FF MMO tried it the first time around. So manypeople were incredibly put off by that game and will not return. It's over and done with for these people. All A Realm Reborn can hope for is to retain some portion of the total number of players the original release gathered.
Yes, the re-release will garner the attention of a very small number of people who weren't also paying attention to the original release. And yes I'm honestly quite shocked at just how many people seem so willing to forgive and forget the first disaster. But no matter what, these factors cannot compensate. There's no way A Realm Reborn can sell more copies than its predecessor at release.
The ONLY way it will ever experience a significant enough growth in population to surpass the original FF14 is if it somehow turns out to be aridiculously phenomenal game that receives rave reviews by media and players alike. If it's not amazing, the word of mouth chain won't have a huge impact. If it's just good, it won't make it. That's the position this game is in. Good doesn't cut it.
Something you have to keep in mind is that it might be difficult to have a high amount of sales because there's already 600k+ people out there that originally bought the game that won't have to again. With that said, they have the currently untapped PS3 market of people who never had a PC powerful enough to play the game and have been holding out. There are also people who already play the game who want to buy a PS3 copy so that they can play from either their PC or the comfort of their living room.
They've also had well over half a million people apply for the beta since it was announced with maybe only a quarter of them being accepted into the beta as of now. Legacy players were automatically accepted into the beta so there's a decent chunk that don't count towards those numbers.
I think this game will go through a leveling off period like every other MMO out there. Normally after a few months people will know whether they want to stick with the game or not. I think the game will be successful, but I'm not anticipating WoW-like numbers. I think they will get a loyal enough subscriber base to dig the game out of the red and keep it going for a long time like they have with FF11.
Originally posted by trash656 While I do not agree with the OP. I don't even think I'm gonna bother even visiting these forums anymore, because every reply i read to a post always is just a bunch of name calling and whining, I honestly have no idea why people on this site turn into spastic mongoloids, and get so emotionally upset like 3 year olds over someones opinion when it comes to video games. It's like 80% of the posts on this website are packed full of drama queens and trolls. No wonder why I don't see any of the old members of this site anymore. They all left. I mean we are discussing video games here, not politics. People on this website have some serious mental issues. Go see a Psychologist, or better yet, go back to highschool and learn how to properly socialize, and learn to act like mature Civil, educated adults. Sadly a lot of them seem to be Americans.
^This
What is sad is there seems to be a lot of hate towards this game coming from people who have no clue the game was being remade. They're basing their opinions on FFXIV 1.0 and the failures of how that game was at launch. Sure, SE f'd up big time but they're trying to make things right. With Yoshida on board as the new Director/Producer, the game is taking a new direction and from what I've seen so far it looks really good. Do I think it will be the next "big" thing in the MMO world? Probably not but I think it has potential to be very successful.
Originally posted by trash656 While I do not agree with the OP. I don't even think I'm gonna bother even visiting these forums anymore, because every reply i read to a post always is just a bunch of name calling and whining, I honestly have no idea why people on this site turn into spastic mongoloids, and get so emotionally upset like 3 year olds over someones opinion when it comes to video games. It's like 80% of the posts on this website are packed full of drama queens and trolls. No wonder why I don't see any of the old members of this site anymore. They all left. I mean we are discussing video games here, not politics. People on this website have some serious mental issues. Go see a Psychologist, or better yet, go back to highschool and learn how to properly socialize, and learn to act like mature Civil, educated adults. Sadly a lot of them seem to be Americans.
^This
What is sad is there seems to be a lot of hate towards this game coming from people who have no clue the game was being remade. They're basing their opinions on FFXIV 1.0 and the failures of how that game was at launch. Sure, SE f'd up big time but they're trying to make things right. With Yoshida on board as the new Director/Producer, the game is taking a new direction and from what I've seen so far it looks really good. Do I think it will be the next "big" thing in the MMO world? Probably not but I think it has potential to be very successful.
The problem is the community can be broken down into people that can logically reason and give good reasons why something should be done with factual data to back it up. Then you get the other part that think calling you a failure, or lazy, or casual, or many other derogatory comments is a logical and well reasoned argument against your own. No one does anything about it so the community as a whole has gone down the tubs. Much like may argument against having only 24 man raiding in FFXIV right now there is no game out there where 20 man raiding or larger is the majority of the game and the game is doing well because of it. Well they cannot come up with any so their argument is I am lazy and I suck because I cannot get into a good enough guild. Even though I cleared MC, was on Nef during vanllia with a friends guild and did 5 bosses in AQ40. I just have done enough leading of large raid groups to know they are a waste of time when I did better with 10 people in WOW and 8 people in SWTOR. But their argument they feel is well reasoned. With no controls in the community to remove these people from posting or the community saying hey I like 24 man raiding but dude name calling is not acceptable.
I doubt the community will ever clean itself up because too many people will feel butt hurt that they get ban for lack of logical arguments and nothing but name calling.
I don't know how this got so heated. The OP never stated it's going to beat WoW. They said it's going to be the best game that has some out since WoW, meaning it'll be better than every other MMO in the last 8 years.
Mmm. You're right, I can't see why that statement would anger anyone.
Originally posted by trash656 While I do not agree with the OP. I don't even think I'm gonna bother even visiting these forums anymore, because every reply i read to a post always is just a bunch of name calling and whining, I honestly have no idea why people on this site turn into spastic mongoloids, and get so emotionally upset like 3 year olds over someones opinion when it comes to video games. It's like 80% of the posts on this website are packed full of drama queens and trolls. No wonder why I don't see any of the old members of this site anymore. They all left. I mean we are discussing video games here, not politics. People on this website have some serious mental issues. Go see a Psychologist, or better yet, go back to highschool and learn how to properly socialize, and learn to act like mature Civil, educated adults. Sadly a lot of them seem to be Americans.
^This
What is sad is there seems to be a lot of hate towards this game coming from people who have no clue the game was being remade. They're basing their opinions on FFXIV 1.0 and the failures of how that game was at launch. Sure, SE f'd up big time but they're trying to make things right. With Yoshida on board as the new Director/Producer, the game is taking a new direction and from what I've seen so far it looks really good. Do I think it will be the next "big" thing in the MMO world? Probably not but I think it has potential to be very successful.
The problem is the community can be broken down into people that can logically reason and give good reasons why something should be done with factual data to back it up. Then you get the other part that think calling you a failure, or lazy, or casual, or many other derogatory comments is a logical and well reasoned argument against your own. No one does anything about it so the community as a whole has gone down the tubs. Much like may argument against having only 24 man raiding in FFXIV right now there is no game out there where 20 man raiding or larger is the majority of the game and the game is doing well because of it. Well they cannot come up with any so their argument is I am lazy and I suck because I cannot get into a good enough guild. Even though I cleared MC, was on Nef during vanllia with a friends guild and did 5 bosses in AQ40. I just have done enough leading of large raid groups to know they are a waste of time when I did better with 10 people in WOW and 8 people in SWTOR. But their argument they feel is well reasoned. With no controls in the community to remove these people from posting or the community saying hey I like 24 man raiding but dude name calling is not acceptable.
I doubt the community will ever clean itself up because too many people will feel butt hurt that they get ban for lack of logical arguments and nothing but name calling.
Look at the title of the topic and then read the OP. This is the last place to look for any kind of logical thinking. Topics like these these with such titles are made purely to bait people into back and forth flaming.
"The problem is that the hardcore folks always want the same thing: 'We want exactly what you gave us before, but it has to be completely different.' -Jesse Schell
"Online gamers are the most ludicrously entitled beings since Caligula made his horse a senator, and at least the horse never said anything stupid." -Luke McKinney
lol i think the OP knew people were going to get carried away with the topic...he prolly just did it for fun which is why he never said anything after the first post.
Originally posted by trash656 While I do not agree with the OP. I don't even think I'm gonna bother even visiting these forums anymore, because every reply i read to a post always is just a bunch of name calling and whining, I honestly have no idea why people on this site turn into spastic mongoloids, and get so emotionally upset like 3 year olds over someones opinion when it comes to video games. It's like 80% of the posts on this website are packed full of drama queens and trolls. No wonder why I don't see any of the old members of this site anymore. They all left. I mean we are discussing video games here, not politics. People on this website have some serious mental issues. Go see a Psychologist, or better yet, go back to highschool and learn how to properly socialize, and learn to act like mature Civil, educated adults. Sadly a lot of them seem to be Americans.
^This
What is sad is there seems to be a lot of hate towards this game coming from people who have no clue the game was being remade. They're basing their opinions on FFXIV 1.0 and the failures of how that game was at launch. Sure, SE f'd up big time but they're trying to make things right. With Yoshida on board as the new Director/Producer, the game is taking a new direction and from what I've seen so far it looks really good. Do I think it will be the next "big" thing in the MMO world? Probably not but I think it has potential to be very successful.
The problem is the community can be broken down into people that can logically reason and give good reasons why something should be done with factual data to back it up. Then you get the other part that think calling you a failure, or lazy, or casual, or many other derogatory comments is a logical and well reasoned argument against your own. No one does anything about it so the community as a whole has gone down the tubs. Much like may argument against having only 24 man raiding in FFXIV right now there is no game out there where 20 man raiding or larger is the majority of the game and the game is doing well because of it. Well they cannot come up with any so their argument is I am lazy and I suck because I cannot get into a good enough guild. Even though I cleared MC, was on Nef during vanllia with a friends guild and did 5 bosses in AQ40. I just have done enough leading of large raid groups to know they are a waste of time when I did better with 10 people in WOW and 8 people in SWTOR. But their argument they feel is well reasoned. With no controls in the community to remove these people from posting or the community saying hey I like 24 man raiding but dude name calling is not acceptable.
I doubt the community will ever clean itself up because too many people will feel butt hurt that they get ban for lack of logical arguments and nothing but name calling.
Look at the title of the topic and then read the OP. This is the last place to look for any kind of logical thinking. Topics like these these with such titles are made purely to bait people into back and forth flaming.
True however there are always people who jump on any post to flame just because they enjoy it.
I'm really hoping FFXIV is my WoW replacement for many years to come, nothing else looks all too interesting.
I love the cross console play, controller support, general FF feel and look.
I love that it is non-action combat, heavily trinity based, gear and level based... in short a "classic" MMO with modern graphics and some modern systems.
I also love the 1 character all classes.
love how crafting/gathering actually seem interesting.
And I love how SE is really placing a LOT of resources into this reboot as they know they can't afford to screw it up twice.
And I love the work and dedication and communication of Yoshi-P and the new team.
I'm really hoping FFXIV is my WoW replacement for many years to come, nothing else looks all too interesting.
I love the cross console play, controller support, general FF feel and look.
I love that it is non-action combat, heavily trinity based, gear and level based... in short a "classic" MMO with modern graphics and some modern systems.
I also love the 1 character all classes.
love how crafting/gathering actually seem interesting.
And I love how SE is really placing a LOT of resources into this reboot as they know they can't afford to screw it up twice.
And I love the work and dedication and communication of Yoshi-P and the new team.
I pre-ordered a CE for sure.
I have pre-ordered as well I think for some people it can replace WoW. I will say I think Yoshi-P has done a good job too.
I'm really hoping FFXIV is my WoW replacement for many years to come, nothing else looks all too interesting.
I love the cross console play, controller support, general FF feel and look.
I love that it is non-action combat, heavily trinity based, gear and level based... in short a "classic" MMO with modern graphics and some modern systems.
I also love the 1 character all classes.
love how crafting/gathering actually seem interesting.
And I love how SE is really placing a LOT of resources into this reboot as they know they can't afford to screw it up twice.
And I love the work and dedication and communication of Yoshi-P and the new team.
I pre-ordered a CE for sure.
Well, if you pre-ordered the product as it stands, you might have a huge case of buyer's remorse when the NDA is lifted.
Boycotting EA. Why? They suck, even moreso since 2008.
I'm really hoping FFXIV is my WoW replacement for many years to come, nothing else looks all too interesting.
I love the cross console play, controller support, general FF feel and look.
I love that it is non-action combat, heavily trinity based, gear and level based... in short a "classic" MMO with modern graphics and some modern systems.
I also love the 1 character all classes.
love how crafting/gathering actually seem interesting.
And I love how SE is really placing a LOT of resources into this reboot as they know they can't afford to screw it up twice.
And I love the work and dedication and communication of Yoshi-P and the new team.
I pre-ordered a CE for sure.
Well, if you pre-ordered the product as it stands, you might have a huge case of buyer's remorse when the NDA is lifted.
What happens if he is in the Beta like I and really likes where the game is going? I do think there is work to be done on the game however its headed in a better direction than many MMOs in the last 7 years in my mind.
I'm really hoping FFXIV is my WoW replacement for many years to come, nothing else looks all too interesting.
I love the cross console play, controller support, general FF feel and look.
I love that it is non-action combat, heavily trinity based, gear and level based... in short a "classic" MMO with modern graphics and some modern systems.
I also love the 1 character all classes.
love how crafting/gathering actually seem interesting.
And I love how SE is really placing a LOT of resources into this reboot as they know they can't afford to screw it up twice.
And I love the work and dedication and communication of Yoshi-P and the new team.
I pre-ordered a CE for sure.
Well, if you pre-ordered the product as it stands, you might have a huge case of buyer's remorse when the NDA is lifted.
What happens if he is in the Beta like I and really likes where the game is going? I do think there is work to be done on the game however its headed in a better direction than many MMOs in the last 7 years in my mind.
[mod edit]
Well I been gaming since 1998 with UO. So lets put it this way. FFXIV goes back to the root of MMOS. That is players playing with other players. Not what has been released in MMOs for the last 7 years. O and your 3 rules are a bunch of BS. WoW was a great game for its time, it had an NDA, it did innovate however it more or less was a copy of EQ2 just done in their own way. Blizzard never answers their critiques they just do what they want how they want.
So just like all people you can say every game is like SWTOR. Funny thing is there is a long list of games that are going by the waist side as short term MMO fixes. None worth spending any time in or with after a month or 2.
i remember closed beta in 2010...its acatastrophe ...big catastrophe
and now after 3 jahre of dewelopment....who cnov what new big catastrophe coming
I believe that I have heard that "THIS GAME WILL BE A CATASTROPHIC FAILURE " In every Beta I been in, in the last......well going back to SWG. Hummm there may be a pattern here.
I'm a legacy member and i certainly like the game, whether it will be the greatest is all down to opinion. People need to stop getting carried away with mmo's and dev speel. Take ZeniMax who haven't really released any real information but release a short vid showing FPV and all of a sudden it's going to be the bestest lol.
You would of thought people would of learnt the lessons of the last 5 years.
I'm really hoping FFXIV is my WoW replacement for many years to come, nothing else looks all too interesting.
I love the cross console play, controller support, general FF feel and look.
I love that it is non-action combat, heavily trinity based, gear and level based... in short a "classic" MMO with modern graphics and some modern systems.
I also love the 1 character all classes.
love how crafting/gathering actually seem interesting.
And I love how SE is really placing a LOT of resources into this reboot as they know they can't afford to screw it up twice.
And I love the work and dedication and communication of Yoshi-P and the new team.
I pre-ordered a CE for sure.
Well, if you pre-ordered the product as it stands, you might have a huge case of buyer's remorse when the NDA is lifted.
What happens if he is in the Beta like I and really likes where the game is going? I do think there is work to be done on the game however its headed in a better direction than many MMOs in the last 7 years in my mind.
[mod edit]
Well I been gaming since 1998 with UO. So lets put it this way. FFXIV goes back to the root of MMOS. That is players playing with other players. Not what has been released in MMOs for the last 7 years. O and your 3 rules are a bunch of BS. WoW was a great game for its time, it had an NDA, it did innovate however it more or less was a copy of EQ2 just done in their own way. Blizzard never answers their critiques they just do what they want how they want.
So just like all people you can say every game is like SWTOR. Funny thing is there is a long list of games that are going by the waist side as short term MMO fixes. None worth spending any time in or with after a month or 2.
Well, firstly, WoW was more based on EQ1 since EQ2 released merely 20 days before WoW. They also answer their critiques very often. Someone saying "my class sucks because I died, please buff me" is not a critique and they do not answer that. Sure often their answer is "its what the players asked for" which, although in some circlejerks, it seems bad, it is actually the truth. Actual critiques are often answered. Blizzcon is a great platform for that too.
To be honest, back then, NDA were a nice buzzword to throw around but no one ever respected them, no sites ever enforced them. You know, back when the Internet was free. If it were still like that instead of being used as a tool to censor negativity around a bad product, I would still disregard it. Lets just say that rumors that Wildstar has an NDA made me lose a lot of interest in that game, so I probably wont play it unless I get a beta invite and see it for myself.
In FFXIV, sure, you play with other, in pairs for most of the content, in groups for instances. BUT, are you really playing with others or are you all doing your own thing together. There simply is no real teamwork involved, quite like GW2 which is what made me leave that game. If they would update FFXI to work with modern PCs I would probably be playing that instead, its a shame that they let consoles ruin everything.
Boycotting EA. Why? They suck, even moreso since 2008.
In FFXIV, sure, you play with other, in pairs for most of the content, in groups for instances. BUT, are you really playing with others or are you all doing your own thing together. There simply is no real teamwork involved, quite like GW2 which is what made me leave that game. If they would update FFXI to work with modern PCs I would probably be playing that instead, its a shame that they let consoles ruin everything.
FFXIV has trinity based combat, which by itself makes it 100% better for group content for me when compared to GW2 - which I loved the game but hated anything to do with the instances.
FFXIV is also gear-heavy more "classic" tiered progression mechanics, unlike GW2.
And FFXIV is subscription based which means no item mall / buying items w/ diamonds and hopefully no global catalog AH with the worst economy in any MMO to date like GW2.
10% of what WoW HAS in numbers?! WoW had 12 mil at their peak. They have lost millions of those. Just between Jan to march of '13 they have lost 1.3 millions subscribers.Putting them just over 8 mil. 10% would be 800k. [mod edit]
800k is prob just over average for most good MMORPGs.
I don't think the NDA has been lifted on this game yet [mod edit]
In FFXIV, sure, you play with other, in pairs for most of the content, in groups for instances. BUT, are you really playing with others or are you all doing your own thing together. There simply is no real teamwork involved, quite like GW2 which is what made me leave that game. If they would update FFXI to work with modern PCs I would probably be playing that instead, its a shame that they let consoles ruin everything.
you say its because of consoles they dont update FFXI for modern PCs but which pc exclusive mmo has ever been updated for modern PCs cuz WoW still looks the same, everquest 1-2 still looks the same, GW1 still looks the same, Vanguard still looks the same, and swtor will look the same 5-10 years from now too...and unlike those mmos excluding WoW, FF11 is still p2p...please this console excuse is getting old.
I'm really hoping FFXIV is my WoW replacement for many years to come, nothing else looks all too interesting.
I love the cross console play, controller support, general FF feel and look.
I love that it is non-action combat, heavily trinity based, gear and level based... in short a "classic" MMO with modern graphics and some modern systems.
I also love the 1 character all classes.
love how crafting/gathering actually seem interesting.
And I love how SE is really placing a LOT of resources into this reboot as they know they can't afford to screw it up twice.
And I love the work and dedication and communication of Yoshi-P and the new team.
I pre-ordered a CE for sure.
Well, if you pre-ordered the product as it stands, you might have a huge case of buyer's remorse when the NDA is lifted.
What happens if he is in the Beta like I and really likes where the game is going? I do think there is work to be done on the game however its headed in a better direction than many MMOs in the last 7 years in my mind.
Well I've been gaming more than 7 years, enough to know that the current direction is headed straight into an iceberg. Ever heard the legend of the great ship, the TORtanic? People like you were "loving it". Then it sunk.
3 rules:
Great games don't NDA anymore.
Great games innovate.
Great games answer their critiques (with logic and respect), not with "please look forward to it" or "deal with it".
Well I been gaming since 1998 with UO. So lets put it this way. FFXIV goes back to the root of MMOS. That is players playing with other players. Not what has been released in MMOs for the last 7 years. O and your 3 rules are a bunch of BS. WoW was a great game for its time, it had an NDA, it did innovate however it more or less was a copy of EQ2 just done in their own way. Blizzard never answers their critiques they just do what they want how they want.
So just like all people you can say every game is like SWTOR. Funny thing is there is a long list of games that are going by the waist side as short term MMO fixes. None worth spending any time in or with after a month or 2.
Well, firstly, WoW was more based on EQ1 since EQ2 released merely 20 days before WoW. They also answer their critiques very often. Someone saying "my class sucks because I died, please buff me" is not a critique and they do not answer that. Sure often their answer is "its what the players asked for" which, although in some circlejerks, it seems bad, it is actually the truth. Actual critiques are often answered. Blizzcon is a great platform for that too.
To be honest, back then, NDA were a nice buzzword to throw around but no one ever respected them, no sites ever enforced them. You know, back when the Internet was free. If it were still like that instead of being used as a tool to censor negativity around a bad product, I would still disregard it. Lets just say that rumors that Wildstar has an NDA made me lose a lot of interest in that game, so I probably wont play it unless I get a beta invite and see it for myself.
In FFXIV, sure, you play with other, in pairs for most of the content, in groups for instances. BUT, are you really playing with others or are you all doing your own thing together. There simply is no real teamwork involved, quite like GW2 which is what made me leave that game. If they would update FFXI to work with modern PCs I would probably be playing that instead, its a shame that they let consoles ruin everything.
Right now there is about 8 of us going to be buying the game after a few test out the beta. We are going to play on a set schedule because all of us have families or have full time jobs while going to college as in 1 persons case. All of us are going to get on and run the same content together. The game quest, instances and so on. Why? Because we are not going to be a 7 day a week 8 to 11pm group. We are going to be on 2 to 3 days max a week and play together like we all did back in the old days of mmos. Only during the old days we didnt have the real life to worry about so we played 7 days a week.
When it comes to leveling in FFXIV if you are playing together you will get to level faster not doing your own thing. Thats the way they designed the game. Not like GW2 designed their game.
10% of what WoW HAS in numbers?! WoW had 12 mil at their peak. They have lost millions of those. Just between Jan to march of '13 they have lost 1.3 millions subscribers.Putting them just over 8 mil. 10% would be 800k. [mod edit]
800k is prob just over average for most good MMORPGs.
I don't think the NDA has been lifted on this game yet but please don't go expecting this to be an amazing game and I will leave it as that..
I think anywhere from 500K to 1 Million players would be great for an MMO and possible for FFXIV. There will never be another WoW like game unless Titan is a killer in 2016. The reason I say that is blizzard does put out generally good products a lot of players play. No other publisher is like that.
I also do not think this game will have 2 Million pre orders then a 1.3 million sub drop. I think it will be a slow and steady startup vs the bubble effect.
I'm really hoping FFXIV is my WoW replacement for many years to come, nothing else looks all too interesting.
I love the cross console play, controller support, general FF feel and look.
I love that it is non-action combat, heavily trinity based, gear and level based... in short a "classic" MMO with modern graphics and some modern systems.
I also love the 1 character all classes.
love how crafting/gathering actually seem interesting.
And I love how SE is really placing a LOT of resources into this reboot as they know they can't afford to screw it up twice.
And I love the work and dedication and communication of Yoshi-P and the new team.
I pre-ordered a CE for sure.
Well, if you pre-ordered the product as it stands, you might have a huge case of buyer's remorse when the NDA is lifted.
What happens if he is in the Beta like I and really likes where the game is going? I do think there is work to be done on the game however its headed in a better direction than many MMOs in the last 7 years in my mind.
[mod edit]
Well I been gaming since 1998 with UO. So lets put it this way. FFXIV goes back to the root of MMOS. That is players playing with other players. Not what has been released in MMOs for the last 7 years. O and your 3 rules are a bunch of BS. WoW was a great game for its time, it had an NDA, it did innovate however it more or less was a copy of EQ2 just done in their own way. Blizzard never answers their critiques they just do what they want how they want.
So just like all people you can say every game is like SWTOR. Funny thing is there is a long list of games that are going by the waist side as short term MMO fixes. None worth spending any time in or with after a month or 2.
Well, firstly, WoW was more based on EQ1 since EQ2 released merely 20 days before WoW. They also answer their critiques very often. Someone saying "my class sucks because I died, please buff me" is not a critique and they do not answer that. Sure often their answer is "its what the players asked for" which, although in some circlejerks, it seems bad, it is actually the truth. Actual critiques are often answered. Blizzcon is a great platform for that too.
To be honest, back then, NDA were a nice buzzword to throw around but no one ever respected them, no sites ever enforced them. You know, back when the Internet was free. If it were still like that instead of being used as a tool to censor negativity around a bad product, I would still disregard it. Lets just say that rumors that Wildstar has an NDA made me lose a lot of interest in that game, so I probably wont play it unless I get a beta invite and see it for myself.
In FFXIV, sure, you play with other, in pairs for most of the content, in groups for instances. BUT, are you really playing with others or are you all doing your own thing together. There simply is no real teamwork involved, quite like GW2 which is what made me leave that game. If they would update FFXI to work with modern PCs I would probably be playing that instead, its a shame that they let consoles ruin everything.
Right now there is about 8 of us going to be buying the game after a few test out the beta. We are going to play on a set schedule because all of us have families or have full time jobs while going to college as in 1 persons case. All of us are going to get on and run the same content together. The game quest, instances and so on. Why? Because we are not going to be a 7 day a week 8 to 11pm group. We are going to be on 2 to 3 days max a week and play together like we all did back in the old days of mmos. Only during the old days we didnt have the real life to worry about so we played 7 days a week.
When it comes to leveling in FFXIV if you are playing together you will get to level faster not doing your own thing. Thats the way they designed the game. Not like GW2 designed their game.
[mod edit]
Facts: (I had multiple max level classes) Faster leveling in FFXI in groups, faster leveling in FFXIV 1.0 in groups through leve linking, Devs have stated multiple times leveling in 2.0 will be faster in a group. Not to mention SE requires group play for endgame and has always been their mantra for all of their mmo's. From crafting to NM hunting if you play solo and don't have any connections in the community things will be much harder to accomplish as a jack of all trades, especially without great gatherers and crafting accomplices.
I played GW1 for pvp, hall of heroes gvg etc, GW2 similar promises were made than it launched was essentially a b2p pve game that couldn't keep me or my guildies for more than a month.
Comments
Address the pacing of leveling up solo vs group in any DEFINABLE way?
Do you read your contradictions?
Let me keep it simple its beta phase 2 wait until later before you ask for people to define anything about what 2.0 will offer that's DEFINABLE in terms of pace.
I gave you very reasonable facts as to why this game is more group-oriented in its design than many mmo's sorry you want the moon and the stars.
Oh and for your obviously agenda-filled rant about beginners suddenly having nothing to look forward, never once did i state that as such.
Yes this game gives you long term goals and progress (sorry thats a bad thing and you want newbies to join and be superpowered? I guess thats why f2p is on the rise) however it has already been stated multiple times it will be more solo-friendly than say FF11, that doesn't change my point on competitive advantage which was simply stated i thought.
Beginners can look forward to a system that gets bashed for being too easy and spamfest, yet at the same time will also be bashed as a grindfest where you need multiple 50's. Damned if you do damned if you don't, i say props to SE for making a challenging, long term game.
2 million actually by 2009 and even before that it started with a steady 300k-500k
Is it challenging though? Or are you just making assumptions based on previous versions? That's really the heart of this. In an interest to make things more fun for players and therefor hopefully retain more subs, is solo play going to be viable enough that over half the people rarely feel like grouping? I don't think you know the answer to this (no matter how much you would like to pretend you know). You even admit that we can't know because they are changing rates between BETA 2 and BETA 3.
I don't know how this got so heated. The OP never stated it's going to beat WoW. They said it's going to be the best game that has some out since WoW, meaning it'll be better than every other MMO in the last 8 years.
Something you have to keep in mind is that it might be difficult to have a high amount of sales because there's already 600k+ people out there that originally bought the game that won't have to again. With that said, they have the currently untapped PS3 market of people who never had a PC powerful enough to play the game and have been holding out. There are also people who already play the game who want to buy a PS3 copy so that they can play from either their PC or the comfort of their living room.
They've also had well over half a million people apply for the beta since it was announced with maybe only a quarter of them being accepted into the beta as of now. Legacy players were automatically accepted into the beta so there's a decent chunk that don't count towards those numbers.
I think this game will go through a leveling off period like every other MMO out there. Normally after a few months people will know whether they want to stick with the game or not. I think the game will be successful, but I'm not anticipating WoW-like numbers. I think they will get a loyal enough subscriber base to dig the game out of the red and keep it going for a long time like they have with FF11.
^This
What is sad is there seems to be a lot of hate towards this game coming from people who have no clue the game was being remade. They're basing their opinions on FFXIV 1.0 and the failures of how that game was at launch. Sure, SE f'd up big time but they're trying to make things right. With Yoshida on board as the new Director/Producer, the game is taking a new direction and from what I've seen so far it looks really good. Do I think it will be the next "big" thing in the MMO world? Probably not but I think it has potential to be very successful.
The problem is the community can be broken down into people that can logically reason and give good reasons why something should be done with factual data to back it up. Then you get the other part that think calling you a failure, or lazy, or casual, or many other derogatory comments is a logical and well reasoned argument against your own. No one does anything about it so the community as a whole has gone down the tubs. Much like may argument against having only 24 man raiding in FFXIV right now there is no game out there where 20 man raiding or larger is the majority of the game and the game is doing well because of it. Well they cannot come up with any so their argument is I am lazy and I suck because I cannot get into a good enough guild. Even though I cleared MC, was on Nef during vanllia with a friends guild and did 5 bosses in AQ40. I just have done enough leading of large raid groups to know they are a waste of time when I did better with 10 people in WOW and 8 people in SWTOR. But their argument they feel is well reasoned. With no controls in the community to remove these people from posting or the community saying hey I like 24 man raiding but dude name calling is not acceptable.
I doubt the community will ever clean itself up because too many people will feel butt hurt that they get ban for lack of logical arguments and nothing but name calling.
Mmm. You're right, I can't see why that statement would anger anyone.
Look at the title of the topic and then read the OP. This is the last place to look for any kind of logical thinking. Topics like these these with such titles are made purely to bait people into back and forth flaming.
"The problem is that the hardcore folks always want the same thing: 'We want exactly what you gave us before, but it has to be completely different.'
-Jesse Schell
"Online gamers are the most ludicrously entitled beings since Caligula made his horse a senator, and at least the horse never said anything stupid."
-Luke McKinney
True however there are always people who jump on any post to flame just because they enjoy it.
I'm really hoping FFXIV is my WoW replacement for many years to come, nothing else looks all too interesting.
I love the cross console play, controller support, general FF feel and look.
I love that it is non-action combat, heavily trinity based, gear and level based... in short a "classic" MMO with modern graphics and some modern systems.
I also love the 1 character all classes.
love how crafting/gathering actually seem interesting.
And I love how SE is really placing a LOT of resources into this reboot as they know they can't afford to screw it up twice.
And I love the work and dedication and communication of Yoshi-P and the new team.
I pre-ordered a CE for sure.
I have pre-ordered as well I think for some people it can replace WoW. I will say I think Yoshi-P has done a good job too.
Well, if you pre-ordered the product as it stands, you might have a huge case of buyer's remorse when the NDA is lifted.
Boycotting EA. Why? They suck, even moreso since 2008.
What happens if he is in the Beta like I and really likes where the game is going? I do think there is work to be done on the game however its headed in a better direction than many MMOs in the last 7 years in my mind.
i remember closed beta in 2010...its acatastrophe ...big catastrophe
and now after 3 jahre of dewelopment....who cnov what new big catastrophe coming
Which Final Fantasy Character Are You?
Final Fantasy 7
Well I been gaming since 1998 with UO. So lets put it this way. FFXIV goes back to the root of MMOS. That is players playing with other players. Not what has been released in MMOs for the last 7 years. O and your 3 rules are a bunch of BS. WoW was a great game for its time, it had an NDA, it did innovate however it more or less was a copy of EQ2 just done in their own way. Blizzard never answers their critiques they just do what they want how they want.
So just like all people you can say every game is like SWTOR. Funny thing is there is a long list of games that are going by the waist side as short term MMO fixes. None worth spending any time in or with after a month or 2.
I believe that I have heard that "THIS GAME WILL BE A CATASTROPHIC FAILURE " In every Beta I been in, in the last......well going back to SWG. Hummm there may be a pattern here.
I'm a legacy member and i certainly like the game, whether it will be the greatest is all down to opinion. People need to stop getting carried away with mmo's and dev speel. Take ZeniMax who haven't really released any real information but release a short vid showing FPV and all of a sudden it's going to be the bestest lol.
You would of thought people would of learnt the lessons of the last 5 years.
Well, firstly, WoW was more based on EQ1 since EQ2 released merely 20 days before WoW. They also answer their critiques very often. Someone saying "my class sucks because I died, please buff me" is not a critique and they do not answer that. Sure often their answer is "its what the players asked for" which, although in some circlejerks, it seems bad, it is actually the truth. Actual critiques are often answered. Blizzcon is a great platform for that too.
To be honest, back then, NDA were a nice buzzword to throw around but no one ever respected them, no sites ever enforced them. You know, back when the Internet was free. If it were still like that instead of being used as a tool to censor negativity around a bad product, I would still disregard it. Lets just say that rumors that Wildstar has an NDA made me lose a lot of interest in that game, so I probably wont play it unless I get a beta invite and see it for myself.
In FFXIV, sure, you play with other, in pairs for most of the content, in groups for instances. BUT, are you really playing with others or are you all doing your own thing together. There simply is no real teamwork involved, quite like GW2 which is what made me leave that game. If they would update FFXI to work with modern PCs I would probably be playing that instead, its a shame that they let consoles ruin everything.
Boycotting EA. Why? They suck, even moreso since 2008.
FFXIV has trinity based combat, which by itself makes it 100% better for group content for me when compared to GW2 - which I loved the game but hated anything to do with the instances.
FFXIV is also gear-heavy more "classic" tiered progression mechanics, unlike GW2.
And FFXIV is subscription based which means no item mall / buying items w/ diamonds and hopefully no global catalog AH with the worst economy in any MMO to date like GW2.
800k is prob just over average for most good MMORPGs.
I don't think the NDA has been lifted on this game yet [mod edit]
you say its because of consoles they dont update FFXI for modern PCs but which pc exclusive mmo has ever been updated for modern PCs cuz WoW still looks the same, everquest 1-2 still looks the same, GW1 still looks the same, Vanguard still looks the same, and swtor will look the same 5-10 years from now too...and unlike those mmos excluding WoW, FF11 is still p2p...please this console excuse is getting old.
Right now there is about 8 of us going to be buying the game after a few test out the beta. We are going to play on a set schedule because all of us have families or have full time jobs while going to college as in 1 persons case. All of us are going to get on and run the same content together. The game quest, instances and so on. Why? Because we are not going to be a 7 day a week 8 to 11pm group. We are going to be on 2 to 3 days max a week and play together like we all did back in the old days of mmos. Only during the old days we didnt have the real life to worry about so we played 7 days a week.
When it comes to leveling in FFXIV if you are playing together you will get to level faster not doing your own thing. Thats the way they designed the game. Not like GW2 designed their game.
I think anywhere from 500K to 1 Million players would be great for an MMO and possible for FFXIV. There will never be another WoW like game unless Titan is a killer in 2016. The reason I say that is blizzard does put out generally good products a lot of players play. No other publisher is like that.
I also do not think this game will have 2 Million pre orders then a 1.3 million sub drop. I think it will be a slow and steady startup vs the bubble effect.
[mod edit]
Facts: (I had multiple max level classes) Faster leveling in FFXI in groups, faster leveling in FFXIV 1.0 in groups through leve linking, Devs have stated multiple times leveling in 2.0 will be faster in a group. Not to mention SE requires group play for endgame and has always been their mantra for all of their mmo's. From crafting to NM hunting if you play solo and don't have any connections in the community things will be much harder to accomplish as a jack of all trades, especially without great gatherers and crafting accomplices.
I played GW1 for pvp, hall of heroes gvg etc, GW2 similar promises were made than it launched was essentially a b2p pve game that couldn't keep me or my guildies for more than a month.