Originally posted by Mkilbride Wow, how are people not understanding what I said?
Perhaps because you created a cryptic, and somewhat deceptive thread title?
No. People don't understand, because they only read the title, then skim the text. His post was easily understood, and it was easily seen that it was a quote he posted. That is, if you actually read the post. :P
I'm more than happy to pay 15 a month so I don't have to see gold seller spam, or stupid, invasive reminders to spend rl money on in game items.
When I log into a game, I want some immersion. I don't want to be reminded every few minutes that I'm playing a game, and they want me to spend money on it.
As a side note, Darkfall UW is much improved over the original imo. I'm enjoying playing and Id ask what other game offers FPS aiming, looting players, a completely zoneless world, a system where you can capture and effectively control certain areas of the world. I quit the original because of some issues I had with it, but I like this game now that they have given us a focus (people have to specialize). I get 30-80 ping usually with high fps.
I think most peoples' problem with the game is that they can't take the mental stress of losing gear in game. Its not a criticism. Its just that many people take it hard.
What makes me want to vomit is that there are people walking this earth that are dumb enough to believe that F2P isn't a scam.
They are the same people who see something for $19.99 and say "wow, that's not even $20.00, WHAT A DEAL!!!!"
It's more like the sub-only people see $15 and say, "it has to be better because it costs more!"
No, that's not it at all. I am adult with a job. I prefer to just pay outright for services rendered, and not be nickle-and-dimed to death. I've played several F2P games, and in order to have access to all of the game, you pay MORE than $15 per month.
F2P came about because as the MMO market started to skew younger, the publishers saw that they had a lot of naive players that would fall for bullshit like telling them the game is "free". If you really believe that F2P games are free, then you are a fucking idiot. I'm not even going to sugarcoat that.
What makes me want to vomit is that there are people walking this earth that are dumb enough to believe that F2P isn't a scam.
They are the same people who see something for $19.99 and say "wow, that's not even $20.00, WHAT A DEAL!!!!"
It's more like the sub-only people see $15 and say, "it has to be better because it costs more!"
No, that's not it at all. I am adult with a job. I prefer to just pay outright for services rendered, and not be nickle-and-dimed to death. I've played several F2P games, and in order to have access to all of the game, you pay MORE than $15 per month.
F2P came about because as the MMO market started to skew younger, the publishers saw that they had a lot of naive players that would fall for bullshit like telling them the game is "free". If you really believe that F2P games are free, then you are a fucking idiot. I'm not even going to sugarcoat that.
The issue for me arises when almost every single sub game has a cash shop.
I might get banned for this. - Rizel Star.
I'm not afraid to tell trolls what they [need] to hear, even if that means for me to have an forced absence afterwards.
P2P LOGIC = If it's P2P it means longevity, overall better game, and THE BEST SUPPORT EVER!!!!!(Which has been rinsed and repeated about a thousand times)
Common Sense Logic = P2P logic is no better than F2P Logic.
I was on the fence about it too. I never played the original but heard some great things and stories about it. Long story short, I got drunk one night and thought it would be a great idea to download Darkfall: UW. How wrong could my judgment be? I literally projectile vomit with such force that my monitor flew off my desk, went through the drywall and framing, killed my neighbours cat, and finally exploded a transformer just outside the house, leveling the block's hydro for the weekend.
Game sucks period. Nothing would change my opinion of it. Wasn't worth the initial $40, would no way in hell be worth an additional $15/mo.
I gave it a good shot. Had troubles getting it downloaded, had troubles installing it, had troubles getting past the tutorial without the game crashing. People in game are shitheads, controls suck, UI sucks, graphics make my eyes bleed, sounds are made by a 2 year old with a fisher price set.
I thought I had a leak from my ceiling, but it was actually my fucking monitor crying tears of agony pleading me to turn the shit off.
Oh come on, if you're going to troll, at least try to be accurate. The graphics and sound (especially sound) are pretty universally regarded as great. And the controls are super responsive.
Read the first sentence and wanted to vomit as well. People who can't or won't pay for a good game are sad and they are the reason these creppy f2p games are popping up like weeds everywhere....
Originally posted by strangeside Read the first sentence and wanted to vomit as well. People who can't or won't pay for a good game are sad and they are the reason these creppy f2p games are popping up like weeds everywhere....
To be fair, though, the sub-based games were getting really bad, as well, and really, it's almost been a decade since we've seen decent quality sub games like WoW, CoH, FFXI, etc.. People were shafted with supposed AAA games like SWTOR, WAR, AoC, etc., that I guess you can't really blame them for not wanting to pay for a box and fee up front. The quality difference was not there, but the convenience of not having to worry about cash shops is what I enjoyed. It is just more immersive and fun.
i fill a bit dirty saying this considering who the OP is but i agree with the OP.
the whole ooh its P2P means i should just not play it.
that is the reason why P2P is dieing not because F2P is better but because when a person has a choice betweeen playing half a game for free or playing a good game for a sub they alwys go with free,
i just want my option to play a game and have access to everything on a equal scale as every other person playing fpor a flat rate, that way i dont fill like im being abused for not being rich, and when i see some one who is better or worse then me its because of me.
P.S. tis is especilly unfair since most P2P people will still try a F2P game, not like we got alot of choices right now.
F2P may be the way of the future, but ya know they dont make them like they used to Proper Grammer & spelling are extra, corrections will be LOL at.
Personally, I don't really care if a game is buy to play, pay to play, or free to play.
But, if the game, has an obvious shop, then that's it, I won't play it.
Personally, I feel there is enough junk advertising in the real world, to annoy me enough as it is, you turn on the TV, your spammed with adverts every few minutes, turn on the radio the same, open a magazine, 75% of it is adverts, and even interesting articles are surrounded by adverts.
The web in general, adverts, even this site, which I really enjoy reading is crammed with adverts, with articles wrapped around adverts.
The old days of gaming were the best, you buy a game, you install the game, you play the game, no adverts, no spam.
There are not many games like that anymore, if there is a store, then it means the developers are not giving you the full experience until you spend even more money, (which is fine, if I buy a game, I want the full experience), but you buy it, thinking you are getting it all, and paying a monthly sub (for the company to maintain the hardware, and continue development), only they then introduce free to play, for you to then not get all the experience, without spending even more money (which equates to usually more, than you were paying when you was a subscriber).
I think the gaming payment model, is becoming more like the Apple way, of donkey and carrot, you don't realise you are spending much, when it's small amounts, but you way up the costs over a month / size months / year, and you will see you ended up spending a fortune on a game, and still probably only have half the content, as every month, that carrot gets pulled away another meter.
Originally posted by Khorrax Both you and the guy you quoted are a bit melodramatic, but he has a point. Subscriptions are a thing of the past, and I think it's a good thing. I'm a fan of the 'buy to play' model, since I started with Guild Wars, but 'free to play' allowed me to play games I would have otherwise not tried. I'm not picky, as long as the business model is fair.
I agree with you here. I don't particular care about paying a subscription when my money is actually going to the maintenance and updating of it. However, sometimes companies (like EA with WAR and SWtOR) the funds do not go where they should and that does piss me off. Games with "Buy to Play" are nice when you are a fan of the IP or prequel of the game, but are a pain in the ass when you just want to try them out. F2P is great for trying out games, but are extremely hard to commit to.
In the end, the company should just be wise about what model they use.
I was on the fence about it too. I never played the original but heard some great things and stories about it. Long story short, I got drunk one night and thought it would be a great idea to download Darkfall: UW. How wrong could my judgment be? I literally projectile vomit with such force that my monitor flew off my desk, went through the drywall and framing, killed my neighbours cat, and finally exploded a transformer just outside the house, leveling the block's hydro for the weekend.
Game sucks period. Nothing would change my opinion of it. Wasn't worth the initial $40, would no way in hell be worth an additional $15/mo.
I gave it a good shot. Had troubles getting it downloaded, had troubles installing it, had troubles getting past the tutorial without the game crashing. People in game are shitheads, controls suck, UI sucks, graphics make my eyes bleed, sounds are made by a 2 year old with a fisher price set.
I thought I had a leak from my ceiling, but it was actually my fucking monitor crying tears of agony pleading me to turn the shit off.
I prefer the subscription based model, but i do not think its for everybody. Having games with different business models is good thing. Those who want sub based games play those. Those who do not, go on to the games with the model you prefer. If i really love a game - the business model is not as important.
The Symptom of this genre is the F2P business model, but the CAUSE is bad games. Fix the cause, and you will remove the symptom.
Once upon a time original Everquest opened up a server that charged about 50 dollars a month.....and it was a HUGE success. Proving people will gladly pay money for a superior product. Of course, the problem now is that there are no superior products. There are not even any really good products. You have WOW.....which, if you failed to notice still has a massive subscription base. You have EVE, which in case you failed to notice, has a very healthy subscription base.
What other good MMOs are there? The answer is none. They are all piece meal MMOs, and those require a piece meal business model.
People just did not stop having any money. It's still there in their pockets. They just refuse to pay 15 dollars a month for a game like SWTOR, or LOTRO, or whatever generic MMO is out there. Why would anyone pay 15 dollars a month for a game that you basically get done playing in three weeks time.
It has taken all but a week before most of the players hit the end game in Neverwinter....a game that is still in Beta. They were right not to include a subscription in that garbage game, because there is nothing to do once you hit max level....just like every other themepark game.
The minute someone creates a true MMORPG, focused on the world instead of a hub based treadmill, then you will see people subscribe.
As of now, there is no such game. The last game to do so was SWG. No other western game since 2004 is even qualified to hold down a monthly subscription.
EQ Next is pretty the only thing standing in the way between another 10 years of the same crap you have already been playing.
I have money, I wish to spend it on superior products. Stop giving me crap, and maybe I will spend my money. Just because you lack money does not mean the rest of the gaming world does not have it.
Originally posted by Khorrax Both you and the guy you quoted are a bit melodramatic, but he has a point. Subscriptions are a thing of the past, and I think it's a good thing. I'm a fan of the 'buy to play' model, since I started with Guild Wars, but 'free to play' allowed me to play games I would have otherwise not tried. I'm not picky, as long as the business model is fair.
Subscriptions are not a thing of the past, current gaming development allows it to be abused. If developers actually worked on theirs games in a relative time and produced regular monthly content (like we had back in 1999, no excuse in 2013) it would make the subscription model more than viable again. Free trials or periods allow you to try the games anyway, with no cost until you see if you like it.
I'd prefer a subscription any day instead of those itemshops, trying to rip-off people in most cases.
In a subscription based game you know what you get for a determined price. If you can't afford paying 10-15 bucks for a sub you got other - more serious - problems imo.
Wouldn't be nearly as dramatic about the whole thing but I can't say the poster is wrong.
Some people like P2P, F2P, D2P which is dance to play btw....AHHH ACRONYMS!!!!
You get the idea. Whatever floats your boat.
I kinda enjoy F2P games cause its like going to the grocery store on sample day. You get to try a bunch of things you wouldn't have tried on your own and see if it tastes good and wow those new pizza bites ROCK totally going to spend some $$$ on those.
Same idea just MMO's. Yes cash shops can be sucky but hey sometimes they can be fun too.
Think Guild Wars 2 nailed the perfect way of doing things. Pay once and play forever. I know its not F2P but it still did things very well IMO.
i honestly love how people in this thread keep saying sub based games are a thing of the past because honestly sorry to be frank but it just shows you how stupid some of your thinking actually is honestly. Do the math serious before you post about subs going bye bye . WOW is still sub based and has over 8 million subs still , now go add up all your free to pay revenue garbage that you parade around this site and see how low in income you still are to wow which is sub based. ANY and ALL data proves you guys wrong daily yet you keep coming to this site and spewing off total nonsense that cannot even be classified as a correct opinion.
WOW at 8 million subs still reigns in any other game be it free or pay. This idiot thats crying about a sub fee is a freeloading kid who probably has no job and still lives at home , hes talking about school for christ sake , of course hes going to post that crap about darkfall , he wants things for free as mommas been taking care of him . Majority of adults will pay a sub fee monthly for a GOOD (good being the word) game. Thats the issue here that people always elude to on this site to try and make their point of view relevant.
All these games that have released with subs and are forced to go free to play either A carbon copy every mechanic they own from wow and most leave and just go back and play wow as its superior. Or B they just suck out of the box and are half finished garbage that want to add in their end game 6 months after release and then cry about how they didnt expect everyone to get to end game that fast (im looking at you SWTOR devs)
No one here that keeps making this stupid ridiculous free to play no sub fee argument EVER has any numbers to back it up. If you guys are not just know it alls back up your claims with hard data and numbers here and stop making stupid claims. Games like Tera AOC SWTOR Rift have all had their populations drop off by like 75% of the boxes they sold and its not because of a monthly fee. Go do some real data digging and look at their forums as you can get a feel for why people left and none of them posting it was because of a 15 dollar a month fee , go look for yourself . Also TSW still isnt doing good as buy to play and GW2 is about the only game still selling and look at the quality of that game (even though some hate it you cant argue with the amount of polish it has). Release something of quality people will stick by you.
If a game is good enough to hold a subscription based community, then it will be a sub game. Sometimes a game is either not good enough or was initially designed with a F2P model in mind with expected revenues.
No payment model is inherently good or bad. It's all about the quality of the game and how it's pricing model has been integrated into the game.
Originally posted by redcapp Some random guy on the internet doesn't want to pay a sub for some game that may or may not even be worth that sub, and you want to vomit? Lol.
I don't know about the OP, if it's tied specifically to that case, and that game. For me however, it's the general trend of it. And like others have mentioned, sub based games are not dead. We have simply not seen anything of decent quality. Who the hell wants to play WoW in a different skin over and over again?
Comments
No. People don't understand, because they only read the title, then skim the text. His post was easily understood, and it was easily seen that it was a quote he posted. That is, if you actually read the post. :P
I'm more than happy to pay 15 a month so I don't have to see gold seller spam, or stupid, invasive reminders to spend rl money on in game items.
When I log into a game, I want some immersion. I don't want to be reminded every few minutes that I'm playing a game, and they want me to spend money on it.
As a side note, Darkfall UW is much improved over the original imo. I'm enjoying playing and Id ask what other game offers FPS aiming, looting players, a completely zoneless world, a system where you can capture and effectively control certain areas of the world. I quit the original because of some issues I had with it, but I like this game now that they have given us a focus (people have to specialize). I get 30-80 ping usually with high fps.
I think most peoples' problem with the game is that they can't take the mental stress of losing gear in game. Its not a criticism. Its just that many people take it hard.
No, that's not it at all. I am adult with a job. I prefer to just pay outright for services rendered, and not be nickle-and-dimed to death. I've played several F2P games, and in order to have access to all of the game, you pay MORE than $15 per month.
F2P came about because as the MMO market started to skew younger, the publishers saw that they had a lot of naive players that would fall for bullshit like telling them the game is "free". If you really believe that F2P games are free, then you are a fucking idiot. I'm not even going to sugarcoat that.
Writers blame all comprehension fault on the readers, but never on poor writing skills
Funny how that happens. It commonly follows that good editors do earn a paycheck.
Camelot Unchained makes me want to vomit...
Thoughts?
See I can do it too...
The issue for me arises when almost every single sub game has a cash shop.
I might get banned for this. - Rizel Star.
I'm not afraid to tell trolls what they [need] to hear, even if that means for me to have an forced absence afterwards.
P2P LOGIC = If it's P2P it means longevity, overall better game, and THE BEST SUPPORT EVER!!!!!(Which has been rinsed and repeated about a thousand times)
Common Sense Logic = P2P logic is no better than F2P Logic.
Oh come on, if you're going to troll, at least try to be accurate. The graphics and sound (especially sound) are pretty universally regarded as great. And the controls are super responsive.
To be fair, though, the sub-based games were getting really bad, as well, and really, it's almost been a decade since we've seen decent quality sub games like WoW, CoH, FFXI, etc.. People were shafted with supposed AAA games like SWTOR, WAR, AoC, etc., that I guess you can't really blame them for not wanting to pay for a box and fee up front. The quality difference was not there, but the convenience of not having to worry about cash shops is what I enjoyed. It is just more immersive and fun.
i fill a bit dirty saying this considering who the OP is but i agree with the OP.
the whole ooh its P2P means i should just not play it.
that is the reason why P2P is dieing not because F2P is better but because when a person has a choice betweeen playing half a game for free or playing a good game for a sub they alwys go with free,
i just want my option to play a game and have access to everything on a equal scale as every other person playing fpor a flat rate, that way i dont fill like im being abused for not being rich, and when i see some one who is better or worse then me its because of me.
P.S. tis is especilly unfair since most P2P people will still try a F2P game, not like we got alot of choices right now.
F2P may be the way of the future, but ya know they dont make them like they used to
Proper Grammer & spelling are extra, corrections will be LOL at.
Thing is, you didn't say anything. You posted someone else's opinion on FTP and didn't elaborate past "wanting to vomit".
Rather than blaming the people trying to decipher your intentions, try clarity next time.
Intestinal Flu - it's been going around.
Personally, I don't really care if a game is buy to play, pay to play, or free to play.
But, if the game, has an obvious shop, then that's it, I won't play it.
Personally, I feel there is enough junk advertising in the real world, to annoy me enough as it is, you turn on the TV, your spammed with adverts every few minutes, turn on the radio the same, open a magazine, 75% of it is adverts, and even interesting articles are surrounded by adverts.
The web in general, adverts, even this site, which I really enjoy reading is crammed with adverts, with articles wrapped around adverts.
The old days of gaming were the best, you buy a game, you install the game, you play the game, no adverts, no spam.
There are not many games like that anymore, if there is a store, then it means the developers are not giving you the full experience until you spend even more money, (which is fine, if I buy a game, I want the full experience), but you buy it, thinking you are getting it all, and paying a monthly sub (for the company to maintain the hardware, and continue development), only they then introduce free to play, for you to then not get all the experience, without spending even more money (which equates to usually more, than you were paying when you was a subscriber).
I think the gaming payment model, is becoming more like the Apple way, of donkey and carrot, you don't realise you are spending much, when it's small amounts, but you way up the costs over a month / size months / year, and you will see you ended up spending a fortune on a game, and still probably only have half the content, as every month, that carrot gets pulled away another meter.
I agree with you here. I don't particular care about paying a subscription when my money is actually going to the maintenance and updating of it. However, sometimes companies (like EA with WAR and SWtOR) the funds do not go where they should and that does piss me off. Games with "Buy to Play" are nice when you are a fan of the IP or prequel of the game, but are a pain in the ass when you just want to try them out. F2P is great for trying out games, but are extremely hard to commit to.
In the end, the company should just be wise about what model they use.
Best DF:UW review ive seen yet.
I prefer the subscription based model, but i do not think its for everybody. Having games with different business models is good thing. Those who want sub based games play those. Those who do not, go on to the games with the model you prefer. If i really love a game - the business model is not as important.
Wrong. Figure out the cause as to symptom.
The Symptom of this genre is the F2P business model, but the CAUSE is bad games. Fix the cause, and you will remove the symptom.
Once upon a time original Everquest opened up a server that charged about 50 dollars a month.....and it was a HUGE success. Proving people will gladly pay money for a superior product. Of course, the problem now is that there are no superior products. There are not even any really good products. You have WOW.....which, if you failed to notice still has a massive subscription base. You have EVE, which in case you failed to notice, has a very healthy subscription base.
What other good MMOs are there? The answer is none. They are all piece meal MMOs, and those require a piece meal business model.
People just did not stop having any money. It's still there in their pockets. They just refuse to pay 15 dollars a month for a game like SWTOR, or LOTRO, or whatever generic MMO is out there. Why would anyone pay 15 dollars a month for a game that you basically get done playing in three weeks time.
It has taken all but a week before most of the players hit the end game in Neverwinter....a game that is still in Beta. They were right not to include a subscription in that garbage game, because there is nothing to do once you hit max level....just like every other themepark game.
The minute someone creates a true MMORPG, focused on the world instead of a hub based treadmill, then you will see people subscribe.
As of now, there is no such game. The last game to do so was SWG. No other western game since 2004 is even qualified to hold down a monthly subscription.
EQ Next is pretty the only thing standing in the way between another 10 years of the same crap you have already been playing.
I have money, I wish to spend it on superior products. Stop giving me crap, and maybe I will spend my money. Just because you lack money does not mean the rest of the gaming world does not have it.
Subscriptions are not a thing of the past, current gaming development allows it to be abused. If developers actually worked on theirs games in a relative time and produced regular monthly content (like we had back in 1999, no excuse in 2013) it would make the subscription model more than viable again. Free trials or periods allow you to try the games anyway, with no cost until you see if you like it.
I'd prefer a subscription any day instead of those itemshops, trying to rip-off people in most cases.
In a subscription based game you know what you get for a determined price. If you can't afford paying 10-15 bucks for a sub you got other - more serious - problems imo.
Wouldn't be nearly as dramatic about the whole thing but I can't say the poster is wrong.
Some people like P2P, F2P, D2P which is dance to play btw....AHHH ACRONYMS!!!!
You get the idea. Whatever floats your boat.
I kinda enjoy F2P games cause its like going to the grocery store on sample day. You get to try a bunch of things you wouldn't have tried on your own and see if it tastes good and wow those new pizza bites ROCK totally going to spend some $$$ on those.
Same idea just MMO's. Yes cash shops can be sucky but hey sometimes they can be fun too.
Think Guild Wars 2 nailed the perfect way of doing things. Pay once and play forever. I know its not F2P but it still did things very well IMO.
MMORPG Gamers/Developers need a reality check!
i honestly love how people in this thread keep saying sub based games are a thing of the past because honestly sorry to be frank but it just shows you how stupid some of your thinking actually is honestly. Do the math serious before you post about subs going bye bye . WOW is still sub based and has over 8 million subs still , now go add up all your free to pay revenue garbage that you parade around this site and see how low in income you still are to wow which is sub based. ANY and ALL data proves you guys wrong daily yet you keep coming to this site and spewing off total nonsense that cannot even be classified as a correct opinion.
WOW at 8 million subs still reigns in any other game be it free or pay. This idiot thats crying about a sub fee is a freeloading kid who probably has no job and still lives at home , hes talking about school for christ sake , of course hes going to post that crap about darkfall , he wants things for free as mommas been taking care of him . Majority of adults will pay a sub fee monthly for a GOOD (good being the word) game. Thats the issue here that people always elude to on this site to try and make their point of view relevant.
All these games that have released with subs and are forced to go free to play either A carbon copy every mechanic they own from wow and most leave and just go back and play wow as its superior. Or B they just suck out of the box and are half finished garbage that want to add in their end game 6 months after release and then cry about how they didnt expect everyone to get to end game that fast (im looking at you SWTOR devs)
No one here that keeps making this stupid ridiculous free to play no sub fee argument EVER has any numbers to back it up. If you guys are not just know it alls back up your claims with hard data and numbers here and stop making stupid claims. Games like Tera AOC SWTOR Rift have all had their populations drop off by like 75% of the boxes they sold and its not because of a monthly fee. Go do some real data digging and look at their forums as you can get a feel for why people left and none of them posting it was because of a 15 dollar a month fee , go look for yourself . Also TSW still isnt doing good as buy to play and GW2 is about the only game still selling and look at the quality of that game (even though some hate it you cant argue with the amount of polish it has). Release something of quality people will stick by you.
Sub based games aren't dead.
If a game is good enough to hold a subscription based community, then it will be a sub game. Sometimes a game is either not good enough or was initially designed with a F2P model in mind with expected revenues.
No payment model is inherently good or bad. It's all about the quality of the game and how it's pricing model has been integrated into the game.
I don't know about the OP, if it's tied specifically to that case, and that game. For me however, it's the general trend of it. And like others have mentioned, sub based games are not dead. We have simply not seen anything of decent quality. Who the hell wants to play WoW in a different skin over and over again?