I don't understand the issue, If you like first person for certain situations, use it. If you don't then stay in 3rd person. Players don't like options?
You can go in and out with a quick scroll of the wheel.
I don't understand why this is even a debate?
Me neither. Maybe some people just need something to worry about.
Originally posted by Fearum I think it was a huge waste of time to work on adding this to the game, nobody will use once they see its pretty much a self-handicap. Oh well, the game is going to crash and burn anyway with some of the game breaking additions they are bending too, so why not add in first person also so you can see it c'n'b up close with your hands showing lol.
It's already in almost every single MMO if you scroll in all the way. Pretty sure it wasn't like they spent years perfecting FPV.
Originally posted by Darth-Batman The Elder Scrolls fans have a right to protest these types of things, they dont want to see the game end up like SWTOR. They want ESO to be like ES and I dont think they are wrong or crazy for that and the people that arent ES fans your opinions dont matter on the subject because youll be gone after the first month anyways. Im still on the fence but if they make this game to be a 'traditional mmo' with just an ES skin it will fail hard.
You need to realize this is not a single player game. It's an MMORPG based on the ES series, so the devs are trying hard to find a good balance between the two because success depends on it. And it will appeal to both ES and non-ES fans alike so that argument really doesn't hold water and the idea that anyone's opinions don't matter is not only wrong but offensive. You want the game to succeed don't you?
I really don't understand what the concern is. I always play MMO's in 1st person. Actualy usualy pass up a game (MMO or SPRPG) if it forces me into 3rd person. Trust me while in general people may be disadvantaged by playing in 3rd person, I personaly always do better in 1st then 3rd.
Bottom line is peoples brains work in different ways and peoples tastes are different. Not everything every person is interested in playing a game is kill, kill with maximum efficiency.
What's wrong with letting people choose which view they want when they want?
I'm not planning on playing ESO anyway....but if they did want more toward people who were fans of the SPRPG....I can't see how supporting 1st person view can be a bad thing?
Let each individual do whatever works best for them.
Originally posted by Nanfoodle One feature I dont get why they are spending money on. 1st person works great for somethings in a MMO but not combat. This is one area TES fans did not do anything good by pushing this into production. This has taken quality dev time that could have been used on MMO content, as this is a MMO.
The devs are more to blame than the fans honestly. Fans always ask for things that are bad ideas. It's up to the Devs to be able to differentiate between good ideas that should be pushed through to make fans happy, and bad ideas that will hurt the game. It certainly doesn't bode well for the future of the game - I wonder what other silly fan requests they'll give in to. Fans don't know what they want until they see it in action and it either fails or succeeds and then two months down the line they realize it was good/bad.
If enough people demand or request the changes, they'd be stupid not to comply. These are not only the paying customers, they're the biggest part of the advertising campaign. Word of mouth has killed more than one MMO.
Originally posted by Darth-Batman The Elder Scrolls fans have a right to protest these types of things, they dont want to see the game end up like SWTOR. They want ESO to be like ES and I dont think they are wrong or crazy for that and the people that arent ES fans your opinions dont matter on the subject because youll be gone after the first month anyways. Im still on the fence but if they make this game to be a 'traditional mmo' with just an ES skin it will fail hard.
You need to realize this is not a single player game. It's an MMORPG based on the ES series, so the devs are trying hard to find a good balance between the two because success depends on it. And it will appeal to both ES and non-ES fans alike so that argument really doesn't hold water.
Well, considering that the current formulas for making MMOs seems to be killing the market, maybe an emphasis on other things, like the IP itself would be a very good thing.
I guess people forgot about games like Everquest it lets you do 3rd person and first person and no one complained, I don't think for one moment I did not ever use first person when I play Everquest even today.
Originally posted by Darth-Batman The Elder Scrolls fans have a right to protest these types of things, they dont want to see the game end up like SWTOR. They want ESO to be like ES and I dont think they are wrong or crazy for that and the people that arent ES fans your opinions dont matter on the subject because youll be gone after the first month anyways. Im still on the fence but if they make this game to be a 'traditional mmo' with just an ES skin it will fail hard.
You need to realize this is not a single player game. It's an MMORPG based on the ES series, so the devs are trying hard to find a good balance between the two because success depends on it. And it will appeal to both ES and non-ES fans alike so that argument really doesn't hold water.
Well, considering that the current formulas for making MMOs seems to be killing the market, maybe an emphasis on other things, like the IP itself would be a very good thing.
What happens when the single player RPG fans finish all the single player PvE content and quit the game? It needs to have a good balance because it is first and foremost an MMO and it's success and longevity will come from the MMO idea that it's a persistent world where you always have content to do and ways to progress your character. For the PvE crowd that's group PvE content via instances and adventure zones as well as crafting, economy, and other typical activities that promote constant, ongoing progression via player interaction. For the PvP crowd it's Cyrodiil.
I disagree with the theme of this article and frankly am a little perturbed at the choice of the title.
I do not feel there are any significant "Concerns" as this article seems to suggest. 1st person view is a welcome feature that Zenimax should be praised for implementing. There is simply no strong argument against having more options on how to play the game. Players will naturally play in the mode they are most effective or comfortable with.
You say there is no situational awareness? I say this:
1) The directional hit indicator (shown in the demo) clues you in on where you are being hit
2) Perceptiveness and vigilance is more important than having a complete view. Good players know to keep an eye on their flanks and look behind themselves when needed. I still top the charts most of the time when playing Chivalry medieval warfare (a PVP game) in 1st person view.
I think another simple solution for Ranged people is ....
Left mouse button click - Switch to First person = Aim = Fire - Release finger - Return to 3rd person view.
Does it automatically for you? I don't know....suppose that would get nauseating quickly.
I can see the gripe but if people are that obsessed with first person view then they are taking the penalty onto themselves. The only other option would be to force everyone to play in first person...
Originally posted by Darth-Batman The Elder Scrolls fans have a right to protest these types of things, they dont want to see the game end up like SWTOR. They want ESO to be like ES and I dont think they are wrong or crazy for that and the people that arent ES fans your opinions dont matter on the subject because youll be gone after the first month anyways. Im still on the fence but if they make this game to be a 'traditional mmo' with just an ES skin it will fail hard.
You need to realize this is not a single player game. It's an MMORPG based on the ES series, so the devs are trying hard to find a good balance between the two because success depends on it. And it will appeal to both ES and non-ES fans alike so that argument really doesn't hold water and the idea that anyone's opinions don't matter is not only wrong but offensive. You want the game to succeed don't you?
Firor said that ES players have an easier time getting into the game than MMO players right now in beta, in a recent interview. Their marketing speech even changed from "ESO is going to be a real MMO" to "ESO was designed as a multiplayer ES game from the start" in the last week.
The "new" marketing for the game doesn't give me the impression that ZOS is trying to appeal to none-ES fans...
To me, this has been (and still is) the biggest issue with this game. At first, there was no first-person view (like in every other MMO) for the simple reasons you stated - you can't PVP like this and you can't see as many mobs coming at you in PVE, so it makes sense. But the community freaked out because they wanted a "true" Elder Scrolls game with first person, so Zenimax caved in to fanboy pressure and added it. Now when the game goes live and everyone gets ganked like crazy in first-person they will complain like hell about that. So really, Zenimax can't win. Unless they can come up with some revolutionary way to solve this issue. Like you said, switching between views would be a pain in the ass and more annoying than it's worth. So here's to Zenimax figuring it out...I wish them the best of luck because this can be a dealbreaker for many people.
I disagree with the theme of this article and frankly am a little perturbed at the choice of the title.
I do not feel there are any significant "Concerns" as this article seems to suggest. 1st person view is a welcome feature that Zenimax should be praised for implementing. There is simply no strong argument against having more options on how to play the game. Players will naturally play in the mode they are most effective or comfortable with.
You say there is no situational awareness? I say this:
1) The directional hit indicator (shown in the demo) clues you in on where you are being hit
2) Perceptiveness and vigilance is more important than having a complete view. Good players know to keep an eye on their flanks and look behind themselves when needed. I still top the charts most of the time when playing Chivalry medieval warfare (a PVP game) in 1st person view.
I totally agree with you. They can't help it as they are still having orgasms over Wildstar. I mean, There wasn't even an ounce of concern with Everquest and is it really so hard for your finger to use a mouse scroll wheel which is avery natural movement for any MMO player? Since when is giving people options for playing a concern? I play Skyrim totally in first person because it feels more immersive. The animations in 3rd person are clunky and not as immersive. I agree with one of the posters above that there is a large audience who will play that care more about immersion than these ridiculous concerns in this article. Poorly titled and themed.
I disagree with the theme of this article and frankly am a little perturbed at the choice of the title.
I do not feel there are any significant "Concerns" as this article seems to suggest. 1st person view is a welcome feature that Zenimax should be praised for implementing. There is simply no strong argument against having more options on how to play the game. Players will naturally play in the mode they are most effective or comfortable with.
You say there is no situational awareness? I say this:
1) The directional hit indicator (shown in the demo) clues you in on where you are being hit
2) Perceptiveness and vigilance is more important than having a complete view. Good players know to keep an eye on their flanks and look behind themselves when needed. I still top the charts most of the time when playing Chivalry medieval warfare (a PVP game) in 1st person view.
I totally agree with you. They can't help it as they are still having orgasms over Wildstar. I mean, There wasn't even an ounce of concern with Everquest and is it really so hard for your finger to use a mouse scroll wheel which is avery natural movement for any MMO player? Since when is giving people options for playing a concern? I play Skyrim totally in first person because it feels more immersive. The animations in 3rd person are clunky and not as immersive. I agree with one of the posters above that there is a large audience who will play that care more about immersion than these ridiculous concerns in this article. Poorly titled and themed.
Couldn't agree more. Not sure what the concern is, just about every recent MMORPG I have played let's you play in first person by simply zooming all the way in if that is your thing.
I loved Skyrim but I'm also a realist. You cant just take Skyrim and add a world of ppl and call it an MMO - it just wont work. Playing dumb NPC's in FPS mode is one thing - playing other players online is totally different.
The aiming mechanic - for this to work in an online MMO they have to increase the size of hit boxes and make things move really slow to compensate for for players who will have latency of +250ms. This makes the whole idea of "aiming" pointless so tab targeting should be used.
FPS v Third Person - having a FPS view is fine but should be selectable. First person view in an MMO interferes with so many of the fundamentals that differentiate and MMO from a FPS game. e.g the fact I cant run/ fight etc AND chat or do other things is terrible - it may be ok for single tasker's but hey.
Combat system - the Skyrim combat system will not attract the masses. Most MMO players don't enjoy running around aiming / swinging a sword / running out of stamina etc . No high population MMO has this type of system and an MMO with population is boring.
Stealth - lets be honest the stealth mechanic in Skyrim is stupid. If your character actually vanished that would be believable and that's how it should work then no need to worry about camera angles.
I will be happy if at least the exploration / repeatability of Skyrim makes it to the MMO - hopefully everything else will be adjusted to suite.
ZeniMax originally had no plans of releasing "actual" first person because they knew that third person would have a major advantage in the MMO world. Many fans of the series did not like this and requested that "actual" first person be put in the game - ZeniMax listened, and would soon add this feature to the game. I commend ZeniMax for listening to the community and I'm not at all against adding "actual" first person, but will I use it? Not likely. Though, I do think adding this feature was a smart move as it will appeal to a large amount of people.
im glad they are offering First Person for those who want it. The more gameplay options the better. With that said, I am very very glad that Elder Scrolls in general adopted a Third Person view as well. Unless i am using a virtual reality device or motion controller i do not have any immersion in First Person. My immersion comes from watching my character acting when i press buttons. Creating a really bad ass character and not be able to see it in game is an auto immersion breaker for me.
Again, i am glad they offer both FPS and TPS perspectives to switch on the fly as a situational choice. I will always take TPS over FPS. Even in shooters.
Make it so in 3rd person, people behind you are not visible to the player and appear as they get in front of you.
Why? This is an MMORPG I'm sorry you'll have to accept that. If you take away the traditional third person view the majority of gamers will not play. You're lucky they put in first person view at all.
Actually that would be a pretty awesome way to simulate situation awareness. We accept that we can't see behind walls (unless we tilt the camera in odd angles for this very reason), so why would we be able to see what is not in our field of view?
You'd have the best of two worlds. You wouldn't have the "cheat" camera telling you what's behind you or behind corners and you could still be able to see better where you're going, aka not bumping into things.
In any case, my biggest gripe with the ES games (and you can put Defiance there as well), is the dreadful interface that is clearly made for console play and is a nightmare to use with mouse and keyboard.
Comments
Me neither. Maybe some people just need something to worry about.
It's already in almost every single MMO if you scroll in all the way. Pretty sure it wasn't like they spent years perfecting FPV.
Steam: Neph
You need to realize this is not a single player game. It's an MMORPG based on the ES series, so the devs are trying hard to find a good balance between the two because success depends on it. And it will appeal to both ES and non-ES fans alike so that argument really doesn't hold water and the idea that anyone's opinions don't matter is not only wrong but offensive. You want the game to succeed don't you?
I really don't understand what the concern is. I always play MMO's in 1st person. Actualy usualy pass up a game (MMO or SPRPG) if it forces me into 3rd person. Trust me while in general people may be disadvantaged by playing in 3rd person, I personaly always do better in 1st then 3rd.
Bottom line is peoples brains work in different ways and peoples tastes are different. Not everything every person is interested in playing a game is kill, kill with maximum efficiency.
What's wrong with letting people choose which view they want when they want?
I'm not planning on playing ESO anyway....but if they did want more toward people who were fans of the SPRPG....I can't see how supporting 1st person view can be a bad thing?
Let each individual do whatever works best for them.
If enough people demand or request the changes, they'd be stupid not to comply. These are not only the paying customers, they're the biggest part of the advertising campaign. Word of mouth has killed more than one MMO.
Well, considering that the current formulas for making MMOs seems to be killing the market, maybe an emphasis on other things, like the IP itself would be a very good thing.
I just want those who bludgeoned ESOL management into putting first person in the game..... to play first person when they go into the AVA area.
It's really upsetting to see the games limited resources being put into such a waste .
What happens when the single player RPG fans finish all the single player PvE content and quit the game? It needs to have a good balance because it is first and foremost an MMO and it's success and longevity will come from the MMO idea that it's a persistent world where you always have content to do and ways to progress your character. For the PvE crowd that's group PvE content via instances and adventure zones as well as crafting, economy, and other typical activities that promote constant, ongoing progression via player interaction. For the PvP crowd it's Cyrodiil.
I disagree with the theme of this article and frankly am a little perturbed at the choice of the title.
I do not feel there are any significant "Concerns" as this article seems to suggest. 1st person view is a welcome feature that Zenimax should be praised for implementing. There is simply no strong argument against having more options on how to play the game. Players will naturally play in the mode they are most effective or comfortable with.
You say there is no situational awareness? I say this:
1) The directional hit indicator (shown in the demo) clues you in on where you are being hit
2) Perceptiveness and vigilance is more important than having a complete view. Good players know to keep an eye on their flanks and look behind themselves when needed. I still top the charts most of the time when playing Chivalry medieval warfare (a PVP game) in 1st person view.
I think another simple solution for Ranged people is ....
Left mouse button click - Switch to First person = Aim = Fire - Release finger - Return to 3rd person view.
Does it automatically for you? I don't know....suppose that would get nauseating quickly.
I can see the gripe but if people are that obsessed with first person view then they are taking the penalty onto themselves. The only other option would be to force everyone to play in first person...
MMORPG Gamers/Developers need a reality check!
Firor said that ES players have an easier time getting into the game than MMO players right now in beta, in a recent interview. Their marketing speech even changed from "ESO is going to be a real MMO" to "ESO was designed as a multiplayer ES game from the start" in the last week.
The "new" marketing for the game doesn't give me the impression that ZOS is trying to appeal to none-ES fans...
I totally agree with you. They can't help it as they are still having orgasms over Wildstar. I mean, There wasn't even an ounce of concern with Everquest and is it really so hard for your finger to use a mouse scroll wheel which is avery natural movement for any MMO player? Since when is giving people options for playing a concern? I play Skyrim totally in first person because it feels more immersive. The animations in 3rd person are clunky and not as immersive. I agree with one of the posters above that there is a large audience who will play that care more about immersion than these ridiculous concerns in this article. Poorly titled and themed.
There Is Always Hope!
Couldn't agree more. Not sure what the concern is, just about every recent MMORPG I have played let's you play in first person by simply zooming all the way in if that is your thing.
I loved Skyrim but I'm also a realist. You cant just take Skyrim and add a world of ppl and call it an MMO - it just wont work. Playing dumb NPC's in FPS mode is one thing - playing other players online is totally different.
The aiming mechanic - for this to work in an online MMO they have to increase the size of hit boxes and make things move really slow to compensate for for players who will have latency of +250ms. This makes the whole idea of "aiming" pointless so tab targeting should be used.
FPS v Third Person - having a FPS view is fine but should be selectable. First person view in an MMO interferes with so many of the fundamentals that differentiate and MMO from a FPS game. e.g the fact I cant run/ fight etc AND chat or do other things is terrible - it may be ok for single tasker's but hey.
Combat system - the Skyrim combat system will not attract the masses. Most MMO players don't enjoy running around aiming / swinging a sword / running out of stamina etc . No high population MMO has this type of system and an MMO with population is boring.
Stealth - lets be honest the stealth mechanic in Skyrim is stupid. If your character actually vanished that would be believable and that's how it should work then no need to worry about camera angles.
I will be happy if at least the exploration / repeatability of Skyrim makes it to the MMO - hopefully everything else will be adjusted to suite.
Yeah, it really was. The problem will be it's a major handicap for PvP, a huge difference from the single player games.
Anyway.. I swear we going to see a lot of people back pedaling, or turning from left to right with the arrow key or A$D instend of using the mouse,
~The only opinion that matters is your own.Everything else is just advice,~
1 word, Darkfall Online
3rd person and 1st person, works fine u can pick.
im glad they are offering First Person for those who want it. The more gameplay options the better. With that said, I am very very glad that Elder Scrolls in general adopted a Third Person view as well. Unless i am using a virtual reality device or motion controller i do not have any immersion in First Person. My immersion comes from watching my character acting when i press buttons. Creating a really bad ass character and not be able to see it in game is an auto immersion breaker for me.
Again, i am glad they offer both FPS and TPS perspectives to switch on the fly as a situational choice. I will always take TPS over FPS. Even in shooters.
<insert Duel of the Fates soundtrack>
Now first person is maybe in lets make it also sandbox and i maybe concider playing this themepark.
Its still not realy a TES game so still won't change my mind about playing this.
And when i see most reply's here majority will turn this in a WoW clone anyway and have no respect for sandbox or real TES fans.
Actually that would be a pretty awesome way to simulate situation awareness. We accept that we can't see behind walls (unless we tilt the camera in odd angles for this very reason), so why would we be able to see what is not in our field of view?
You'd have the best of two worlds. You wouldn't have the "cheat" camera telling you what's behind you or behind corners and you could still be able to see better where you're going, aka not bumping into things.
In any case, my biggest gripe with the ES games (and you can put Defiance there as well), is the dreadful interface that is clearly made for console play and is a nightmare to use with mouse and keyboard.