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Hardcore players? Hardcore games? Have Casuals taken it too far?
chrisatron
Member Posts: 139
I am just curious as to what the hardcore gamers play these days? With the market being saturated with the most casual of games [Guild Wars 2], what is there for the hardcore crowd? The only two games that come to mind are EVE Online and Final Fantasy XI and even FFXI has been scaled way back and is now a joke.
I feel as if developers are catering to casual players too much and not so much to their base hardcore fans. Things like Dungeon Finder, terribly easy leveling and instant gratification are pretty much the norm now and it's starting to become beyond a joke. Casual players complain when they can't solo the entirety of the games content so the devs scale it back. One thing that devs have started to inject is the normal and hard mode dungeons but... shouldn't these be hard anyway? why should I be able to roflspam my abilities and prance around and come out with tier gear [WoW] Where is the meaningful content? Never I have felt so good after finally getting my BLU spells in FFXI, all the work, all the hours meeting new people along the way, it was a journey, it wasn't about the end reward.
Developers should stop catering so much to casuals and start making content and games that require some sort of thought, some strategy and furthermore teamwork! Also, I hate to hear this "Well I can't play for hours on end grinding for particular gear, so it should be easier!"
Look, if you don't have the time to commit to an MMO then you shouldn't play an MMO, simple.
I don't have the time to put into EVE, it doesn't mean I should complain that their game is too difficult and demand they scale it back for me; I simply don't play.
Man, can you imagine if say... Tomb Raider 1 [PS1] was re-released for this generation? "Where is the guide telling me where to go? where is the enemy health bars? why aren't I automatically regaining hp? help i've ran out of med-packs! this game sucks"
my 2 cents...
Comments
There is "hardcore games" which require a huge time investment and dedication to do anything.
There is hardcore- or "ironman mode" which implies harsh death penalty and/or no load/save function.
There are players who who play such games and refer to themselves "hardcore players", but often these people are no more hardcore than anyone else.
There are "hardcore players" who are willing to spend hours upon hours on a game - any game.
Then there are hardcore players who are so good they get payed to play (e-sports).
Are you really a hardcore gamer or do you just play certain types of games?
I skate to where the puck is going to be, not where it has been -Wayne Gretzky
The real truth is obvious.
Making MMO games costs a lot more money now than it used to - which means you have to sell more copies.
The so called "hardcore" gamer is a bit of a rare breed.
Not enough of them to justify AAA budgets.
But the real trend now is options - options are good.
Difficulty settings, hard modes, different servers types, etc.
And besides, most "hardcore" gamers have no idea what they are calling themselves. Any game can be played "hardcore." There are hardcore Hearts players or hardcore Pokemon players...
Anyone who thinks a world-first competitive raiding guild in WoW isn't "hardcore" is, quite frankly, a moron.
Certain game mechanics, like those found in EvE or old-school UO/EQ or FFXI certainly tend to attract more of the "hardcore" type of players.
But investment <= expected return.
Punishing, brutal and/or grind heavy systems are just not popular.
What spock said is the truth.
Term "Hardcore-gamer" can be translated into many different categories based on the person categorizing them.
I feel that the term can be used on gamers who are willing to get to 'ends-meet' no matter the time it takes, wether that is grinding faction for days to get something, learning the ropes of the hardest raids and conquering them, spending every 'free-time' on gaming etc.
Simply put, spend most of your free-time on game(s), to be the best, get the best etc.
Eve online the one and only hardcore game left.
I knew someone would mention this and I wish I would have mentioned Starcraft 2 within those few examples I gave. Yes I do know about 'some' hardcore games however within the MMO genre and ESPECIALLY the AAA titles, hardcore is a term not brought forward.
Also yes, Hardcore can be subject to change depending on a persons view point, however, when I say hardcore I just in a general sense mean 'difficult' or otherwise not a faceroll. Developers now are creating games so easy that you can watch an episode of Stargate whilst raiding and still come out with top Damage and no deaths etc..
So many things wrong with this post.
Developers are not obligated to cater to anyone just because you say so. if they decide their core audience is now the casuals, it is their prerogative, and they can cater their game to anyone they want.
Secondly, i don't commit to any MMO, and i do play them. They are entertainment products, and i use them as i see fit, not what you think how i should play games. It is the devs that put in great features like LFD .. obviously trying to get my play-time. I don't see any reason not to play a MMO, on short spurts, if it is fun.
How come you jump into every single thread that is about more hardcore gameplay in MMOs and basically writes exactly the same thing?
If it's not broken, you are not innovating.
Torgrim we have two resident under-bridge-dwellers present in this thread thus far. Expect more to arrive shortly. I don't dislike them as much as they think, and surely they don't care.
But still, we hardcore players are playing....
Nothing.
Although a lot of people like Eve, I couldn't put up with the profanity and the death penalty. To avoid the death penalty you restricted to spending only half of your available resources, using the other half to "insure" your ships.
Luckily, i don't need you to like me to enjoy video games. -nariusseldon.
In F2P I think it's more a case of the game's trying to play the player's. -laserit
I suspect many who think of themselves as "hardcore" are just average gamers.
It's like a dude calling himself a "stud" or "chick magnet" when he's just an Average Joe.
Because such threads are just repeating exactly the same thing as posted before. It is quite appropriate. A repeated response to a repeated topic.
Of course, there will be variation on the language to make it more fun.
Is that why you guys are doing nothing but repeatedly flogging the very dead horse here?
No matter. I will help you pass the time, but only when i have a slow day at work. When i am at home (particularly the weekends), i will be enjoying all the games (and some MMOs) and probably have less time to keep you company.
Refresh my memory - how do I tell if I'm hardcore or casual?
I don't really stand in the "hardcore" corner. But nowadays if I want to have a challenge I play offline games with "additional" rules (e.g. CRPGs with parties that consist of hopeless characters, otherwise increased handycaps, decrease starting funds, avoid/disable save/reload options, etc.).
In MMOs the average player wants to get things done as fast as possible. You can only experiment with a group of like minded players. Eventually the games get boring. Pugging will bring back a bit of that unknown random element, though.
Are you unemployed?
Do you live in your mom's basement?
Does your entire life revolve around the game?
This is how to know whether or not your pathetic.. not if your a Hardcore gamer.
Lets see your Battle Stations /r/battlestations
Battle Station
Hey if you don't mind archaic interfaces, give Asheron's Call (1) a shot, other then the interface the game is pretty outstanding if you compare content to content, and number of free "expansions/extensive new content patching" that AC1 has put out over the last... 14 years or so ( they do new content/story arcs every month, holiday/season events, and random GM ran events that effect the world.
Not to mention one of the only MMORPG's with a pretty much seamless overland, where you get the feeling that the world is massive and immersive, not invisible boundried/sectored off zones that you load.
Heres an excerpt from Wikipedia's take on Asheron's Call. ( http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Asheron%27s_Call )
It's all out there, if you like theme parks, if you like FFA full loot pvp there are games that exist in those styles.
Nothing is ruined, unlike when there were only three MMO's we have all the choice in the world.
If you enjoy a game and play because it's fun, then you are a casual. Having a job is a plus
If you play "to be better than the other baddie/carebear/wusses" then you are hardcore. Having a job excludes you unless you have insomnia and can get your 14 hours per day in.
Most of them are still playing WoW 24/7. Hardmode raids are typically beaten by only the top 3% and the hardest core of the hardest core are sponsored gamers.
Unless you mean "hardcore" in the sense that you prefer to play games that take a long time to level up.
The idea of "hardcore" can encompass so many things.
I will also note that no one has answered my question and they never do. So maybe you can take a crack at it.
How is taking items that are easy to come by; where players will have hoarded them in their AH hardcore?
large experience loss in a game where it takes a long time to level is hardcore (and certianly my prefernece) losing items of immense value could be called hardcore.
But as some (and maybe you?) full loot gamers are quick to point out, these games aren't themepark games and people aren't losing items where it takes years to get them.
So isn't that just the illusion of hardcore?
Godfred's Tomb Trailer: https://youtu.be/-nsXGddj_4w
Original Skyrim: https://www.nexusmods.com/skyrim/mods/109547
Serph toze kindly has started a walk-through. https://youtu.be/UIelCK-lldo
If you enjoy instanced pvp where you opponents are just a numerous and powerful as you, you are a casual
If you and you ten buddies in full plate male enjoy killing noobs who are so weak they don't stand a chance, you are hard core.
my take on Hardcore... I think Asheron's Call is pretty hardcore by my definition, the loot generation is similiar to diablo 1/2, there is unique items that are pretty bad ass and have random variables for enchanments and dmg/defense, withen a range of course.. makes for a very diverse loot system when you can find all sorts of stuff, usuable things for certain creatures, and great things you might sell to the super rich or save for yourself.
Each item is comprised of a material, which you can salvage the item down to its base components if you wish and recombine into a lump of Brass you apply to your swords guard which increases your Melee defense, and ect, every material is different. This aspect also appeals to what I think hardcore entails.
you can build a jack of all trades character, no Rogue class, no Warrior, no Mage - another excerpt here..
[quote] The player initially allocates a limited number of attribute points (such as 'Strength', 'Coordination', and 'Quickness') and selects skills (such as 'Unarmed Combat', 'War Magic' and 'Melee Defense') for the character, with those base skills starting at a level determined by the character's attributes. Unlike many other games of the genre characters are not locked into a specific class, and can even reallocate previously selected skills to acquire other skills later in the game.[/quote]
This means is fun to mix and match skills, you can be an Staff wielding melee with a shield, but also give up your some Magic defense, or any skill you choose, and get War Magic so you can blast away from far, or sneak up with a crossbow.
Battles are pitched in a way where everyone has the ability to first aid, be it mages casting spells, chugging potions, melees can also cast any of the same heal spells if they trained ( with 16 of your total 100 something skill credits you earn over time, or 40 or so you get in the beginning ), but you could also be a cook ( for 6 skills points ) and make stamina and health rations on the go, potions and elixirs, first aid kits. - This makes battles constantly a feeling of being able to die in a split second, but also save your life just as fast, this creates skill based battles almost like a shooter but at a tab target pace. I consider this hardcore in my book.
Good point, I remember being taken aback when I read a forum full of angry complaints about a raid boss that allowed each party "only" 500 attempts/week to take it down. That was a bit of culture shock for me.
I hate the term hardcore - my term is no life. There is more money to be made from one market than the other, plain and simple.