Originally posted by DamonVile Originally posted by nariusseldonOriginally posted by actionreaction
that's where you and I disagree, I believe games have many achievements, be in you finally defeated a wild boar that took you 10 deaths but you learned some techniques, or managed to get to the top of a high mountain, I consider these things achievements, but then again I play games for Fun, do you? It doesn't sound like it.uh? It sounds like i play games for fun, and you play them for "achievement".I consider those things gameplay elements that create an illusion of achievement, but not real achievement like learning calculus, or climbing a real mountain.Yeah I had to laugh at "climbing" a virtual mountain as an achievement. It may fit the dictionary definition of the word but I would hope few people would actually consider it one in their life.
Games do not give you a sense of achievement? I think 100% of athletes (and computer hackers) would disagree with you. All life is a game, after all. Play well, or at least don't come here and whine at those who do.
Luckily, i don't need you to like me to enjoy video games. -nariusseldon. In F2P I think it's more a case of the game's trying to play the player's. -laserit
I am just curious as to what the hardcore gamers play these days? With the market being saturated with the most casual of games [Guild Wars 2], what is there for the hardcore crowd? The only two games that come to mind are EVE Online and Final Fantasy XI and even FFXI has been scaled way back and is now a joke.
I feel as if developers are catering to casual players too much and not so much to their base hardcore fans. Things like Dungeon Finder, terribly easy leveling and instant gratification are pretty much the norm now and it's starting to become beyond a joke. Casual players complain when they can't solo the entirety of the games content so the devs scale it back. One thing that devs have started to inject is the normal and hard mode dungeons but... shouldn't these be hard anyway? why should I be able to roflspam my abilities and prance around and come out with tier gear [WoW] Where is the meaningful content? Never I have felt so good after finally getting my BLU spells in FFXI, all the work, all the hours meeting new people along the way, it was a journey, it wasn't about the end reward.
Developers should stop catering so much to casuals and start making content and games that require some sort of thought, some strategy and furthermore teamwork! Also, I hate to hear this "Well I can't play for hours on end grinding for particular gear, so it should be easier!"
Look, if you don't have the time to commit to an MMO then you shouldn't play an MMO, simple.
I don't have the time to put into EVE, it doesn't mean I should complain that their game is too difficult and demand they scale it back for me; I simply don't play.
Man, can you imagine if say... Tomb Raider 1 [PS1] was re-released for this generation? "Where is the guide telling me where to go? where is the enemy health bars? why aren't I automatically regaining hp? help i've ran out of med-packs! this game sucks"
my 2 cents...
Casual players are not very interested in hardcore games so how are those players taking hardcore games to far?
Your problem is rather that developers are not very interestet in making hardcore games but rather wish to aim their games for different public.
Games do not give you a sense of achievement? I think 100% of athletes (and computer hackers) would disagree with you. All life is a game, after all. Play well, or at least don't come here and whine at those who do.
What does athletes have to do with video games?
All life is a game, just some part more trivial than others. Do you feel a sense of achievement when you figure out how to beat the computer at tic-tac-toe?
we call that Propaganda. mixed in with some lies, like a good crowd manipulator would do.
it's a shame americans had to invade the middle east sovereign nations after 9/11, ruining all chances at diplomacy...when a more peaceful resolution could've been negociated.
How does above statement make you feel ? Not a word of it is false, is it ?
Well a lot of what you said is opinion.
Is a lot of what Badspock said opinion?
Just because you don't like it doesn't mean it is bad.
What's youre obsession with real life buddy? I can scale any real mountain I want any day, when can you go out and teleport across 20 ft ledges, and free fall 30ft to the next ledge?
I am afraid you both confused on what an achievement is.
I don't think we're confused at all. I just think we measure them with a different size of stick.
computers = energy, mountains = energy, any can gain the same fun and achievement feelings, just depends on the person, I suppose, me and you Damon, we agree on that.
No we don't agree at all. I was making fun of you. At the end when your life flashes before your eyes , it's going to suck when you get bored watching it.
Developers should stop catering so much to casuals and start making content and games that require some sort of thought, some strategy and furthermore teamwork! Also, I hate to hear this "Well I can't play for hours on end grinding for particular gear, so it should be easier!"
Look, if you don't have the time to commit to an MMO then you shouldn't play an MMO, simple.
So many things wrong with this post.
Developers are not obligated to cater to anyone just because you say so. if they decide their core audience is now the casuals, it is their prerogative, and they can cater their game to anyone they want.
Secondly, i don't commit to any MMO, and i do play them. They are entertainment products, and i use them as i see fit, not what you think how i should play games. It is the devs that put in great features like LFD .. obviously trying to get my play-time. I don't see any reason not to play a MMO, on short spurts, if it is fun.
How come you jump into every single thread that is about more hardcore gameplay in MMOs and basically writes exactly the same thing?
It's his M.O.
Doesn't matter how many times you call him out on it or point out his obvious obsession with making every game playable by any and every drool bib recipient there is. Every game should be about fun his way. I don't think he can realize not everyone finds fun in the same things.
Is that why you guys are doing nothing but repeatedly flogging the very dead horse here?
No matter. I will help you pass the time, but only when i have a slow day at work. When i am at home (particularly the weekends), i will be enjoying all the games (and some MMOs) and probably have less time to keep you company.
If this is indeed the case...I'd love to know how you retain a job considering your post count.
1. Is it people who are really into games, and go deep into them? Because Guild Wars 2 certainly feels deep enough to be worth investing some time in, with it's simple-yet-deep build design.
2. Is it people who don't mind having their time wasted? Because several earlier MMORPGs involve big timesinks without big game depth involved in those timesinks, which results in a game where only the "hardcore" (some might use other words) are willing to spend their time there.
I personally feel there is no such thing. Been gaming since 1982 on nearly every console game, PC's, the Arcade (When it was around...wish they still were), etc etc. I consider myself a gamer, nothing more.
I think the term "hardcore gamer" started as a jab at those who prefer strategy or a bit higher level of difficulty to their games by those who prefer games otherwise.
Originally posted by DamonVile Most games that have raiding still have "hard core " guilds. Just look for the guild that thinks of you as a number and couldn't care less if you enjoy your time playing or sit outside the door waiting to be called in. That's hard core raiding...and it's not hard to see why it's died off.
yeah. that is why LFR is a godsend. If i want to raid, i don't want to apply for a spot like a job, and have to commit to a schedule and 'training'. That is not my idea of a good fun game.
Thank god devs realize most players want to play raid content, but don't like the hardcore guild culture.
I don't get how so many state they like raid content...but aren't social within MMORPG's or like grouping...which is what is required for raid content.
Personally i never think there is any real achievement in games. Achievement in games are all illusion the devs create for players to have fun. Nothing more nothing else.
I don't know... I think atleast e-sports achievements are worth to take notice.
I skate to where the puck is going to be, not where it has been-Wayne Gretzky
I don't get how so many state they like raid content...but aren't social within MMORPG's or like grouping...which is what is required for raid content.
I love to raid. I love to group. I tend to group with people I know or have grouped with before.. guild mates and friends. I am social to an extent, I'm not going to go out of my way to spend an hour answering questions in chat. I will however spend hours helping friends and guild mates get needed gear, farming mats for raids or just dicking around.
Just because people who raid seriously don't seem Social to you, doesn't mean they aren't. It just means they aren't social with YOU.
Just because I'm a gamer doesn't mean I drive a Honda.
I don't get how so many state they like raid content...but aren't social within MMORPG's or like grouping...which is what is required for raid content.
I love to raid. I love to group. I tend to group with people I know or have grouped with before.. guild mates and friends. I am social to an extent, I'm not going to go out of my way to spend an hour answering questions in chat. I will however spend hours helping friends and guild mates get needed gear, farming mats for raids or just dicking around.
Just because people who raid seriously don't seem Social to you, doesn't mean they aren't. It just means they aren't social with YOU.
Defensive much?
I wasn't talking about my gaming experiences personally. But rather those here who constantly say they don't like talking to others and like to solo...yet say they like raid content. Makes no sense to me.
Originally posted by MMORPGRIP Originally posted by KrimzinI don't get how so many state they like raid content...but aren't social within MMORPG's or like grouping...which is what is required for raid content.
I love to raid. I love to group. I tend to group with people I know or have grouped with before.. guild mates and friends. I am social to an extent, I'm not going to go out of my way to spend an hour answering questions in chat. I will however spend hours helping friends and guild mates get needed gear, farming mats for raids or just dicking around. Just because people who raid seriously don't seem Social to you, doesn't mean they aren't. It just means they aren't social with YOU.Defensive much?
I wasn't talking about my gaming experiences personally. But rather those here who constantly say they don't like talking to others and like to solo...yet say they like raid content. Makes no sense to me.
Not defensive at all. Was making a point that things aren't always what they appear.
Just because I'm a gamer doesn't mean I drive a Honda.
Making MMO games costs a lot more money now than it used to - which means you have to sell more copies.
The so called "hardcore" gamer is a bit of a rare breed.
Not enough of them to justify AAA budgets.
But the real trend now is options - options are good.
Difficulty settings, hard modes, different servers types, etc.
And besides, most "hardcore" gamers have no idea what they are calling themselves. Any game can be played "hardcore." There are hardcore Hearts players or hardcore Pokemon players...
Anyone who thinks a world-first competitive raiding guild in WoW isn't "hardcore" is, quite frankly, a moron.
Certain game mechanics, like those found in EvE or old-school UO/EQ or FFXI certainly tend to attract more of the "hardcore" type of players.
But investment <= expected return.
Punishing, brutal and/or grind heavy systems are just not popular.
Excellent point Spock and one that I question the Devs with. Why spend all this money on a game and risk losing everything? Why not spend LESS money and make a SMALLER game that can do one thing really well.
The problem I have with these AAA titles is they spend millions of dollars to try and cater to all game players -- but deliver a below average product across all facets.
Spend less on marketing and trying to make the next best thing and focus on what you want the game to be. It will be of more value than what we are getting today.
It comes down to this...who has more money to spend?
"Casual players" (hate this overused term) are apparently the ones spending the most money...and it is relatively easy to make content for them.
There are SO MANY types of hardcore players (raiders, dungeon divers, farmers, PvE-ers, PvPers, RvRers, etc) that make up a SMALLER population of players relative to casuals that it is often difficult to make content to suit them all.
So do you make content for those who are willing to spend more money and have greater numbers?
Or do you make content for those who are will to spend more TIME in the game and have smaller numbers?
Or maybe there is a way we can all co-exist...
"As you read these words, a release is seven days or less away or has just happened within the last seven days those are now the only two states youll find the world of Tyria."...Guild Wars 2
Originally posted by Vorch It comes down to this...who has more money to spend?"Casual players" (hate this overused term) are apparently the ones spending the most money...and it is relatively easy to make content for them.There are SO MANY types of hardcore players (raiders, dungeon divers, farmers, PvE-ers, PvPers, RvRers, etc) that make up a SMALLER population of players relative to casuals that it is often difficult to make content to suit them all. So do you make content for those who are willing to spend more money and have greater numbers?Or do you make content for those who are will to spend more TIME in the game and have smaller numbers?Or maybe there is a way we can all co-exist...
Vorch that is a valid statement.
You missed one thing though.
Casual players spend more money when they actually play. The hardcore players are the ones who don't jump ship every time the wind blows.
Just because I'm a gamer doesn't mean I drive a Honda.
Originally posted by VengeSunsoar I don't think I've ever seen anyone state they prefer to solo and like to raid.
That pretty much sums me up. I'm in a guild. But typically not on when the guildies are on. So I solo and dont yearn to quest with my guildmates. Questing is personal to me. I want to do it at my own pace. What happens if I want to go fishing or do something else when the person you are playing wants to go on to the next quest or do something else? It gets problematic and I dont think people really look at that.
On the other end raiding is hella fun. But its specific. You are with yoru guildmates or friends for a specific purposes of taking down some massive monster. You have to work in cohesion and as a team. learning how to do that and reaching the achievement of taking down the raid boss is exciting.
I don't see why you think they have to be mutually exclusive.
It comes down to this...who has more money to spend?
"Casual players" (hate this overused term) are apparently the ones spending the most money...and it is relatively easy to make content for them.
There are SO MANY types of hardcore players (raiders, dungeon divers, farmers, PvE-ers, PvPers, RvRers, etc) that make up a SMALLER population of players relative to casuals that it is often difficult to make content to suit them all.
So do you make content for those who are willing to spend more money and have greater numbers?
Or do you make content for those who are will to spend more TIME in the game and have smaller numbers?
Or maybe there is a way we can all co-exist...
They can make the same money on both...it would just be over a longer period of time with the vet crowd (Via monthly sub options.
Basically I see it as....
- Casuals: Hop games after a few months...but spend a lot on cash shop items, box price and and other extras.
- Vets: Stay with the game months/years (If good of course) on the box price and a monthly sub fee (Plus expansions).
But co-existence will probably never happen as neither side can agree on anything...and whichever side got more attention, the other side would whine excessively until neither side has what they want, population goes down due to game breaking garbage, game dies.
But companies rather get the money fast...so....here we are.
Originally posted by Vorch It comes down to this...who has more money to spend?
"Casual players" (hate this overused term) are apparently the ones spending the most money...and it is relatively easy to make content for them.
There are SO MANY types of hardcore players (raiders, dungeon divers, farmers, PvE-ers, PvPers, RvRers, etc) that make up a SMALLER population of players relative to casuals that it is often difficult to make content to suit them all.
So do you make content for those who are willing to spend more money and have greater numbers?
Or do you make content for those who are will to spend more TIME in the game and have smaller numbers?
Or maybe there is a way we can all co-exist...
Vorch that is a valid statement.
You missed one thing though.
Casual players spend more money when they actually play. The hardcore players are the ones who don't jump ship every time the wind blows.
I wasn't clear, but yes, hardcore players will spend more TIME in game. However, they do not spend more MONEY as a population compared to casuals. In GENERAL, they are using more server resources while paying less money. Casuals will pay for cool, cute, and quirky items, but not play as often...thus utilizing fewer server resources while paying MORE money...
In fact, the only way to get money consistently from the hardcore crowd has been the P2P model, which has been shown to only work in rare cases, as opposed to the B2P, F2P, and Freemium models. I'm basing this on monetization numbers from Nexon, NCSoft, and PerfectWorld.
What we are seeing is an industry trying to find a balance...you want a hardcore base to keep your game populated, but you also want people actually BUYING things for your game. And appealing 100% to hardcore audiences simply doesn't cut it in 2013.
"As you read these words, a release is seven days or less away or has just happened within the last seven days those are now the only two states youll find the world of Tyria."...Guild Wars 2
I wasn't clear, but yes, hardcore players will spend more TIME in game. However, they do not spend more MONEY as a population compared to casuals. In GENERAL, they are using more server resources while paying less money. Casuals will pay for cool, cute, and quirky items, but not play as often...thus utilizing fewer server resources while paying MORE money...
In fact, the only way to get money consistently from the hardcore crowd has been the P2P model, which has been shown to only work in rare cases, as opposed to the B2P, F2P, and Freemium models. I'm basing this on monetization numbers from Nexon, NCSoft, and PerfectWorld.
What we are seeing is an industry trying to find a balance...you want a hardcore base to keep your game populated, but you also want people actually BUYING things for your game. And appealing 100% to hardcore audiences simply doesn't cut it in 2013.
This is a great point, one I never really thought about before.
I really think the answer is simple - multiple server types or difficulty settings.
In the old days where servers were expensive and you pretty much had dedicated hardware for a single shard/world - it probably didn't make sense to offer up tons of different server rule sets.
But now, servers are cheap, everything is virtual and resources are dynamically shared across mega-powerful and affordable hosts...
Why would it be SO bad to spin up a VM for a hardcore shard?
As long as the developer stated plainly that "hey, here is this new hardcore rule set server for ya'll. It may not be balanced, and based on population we WILL NOT be spending as much dev time on it, but we'll do our best to make ya'll happy too."
Originally posted by DamonVile Most games that have raiding still have "hard core " guilds. Just look for the guild that thinks of you as a number and couldn't care less if you enjoy your time playing or sit outside the door waiting to be called in. That's hard core raiding...and it's not hard to see why it's died off.
Also look for the guild who recruits everyone that asks, doesn't care if you show up or not to raid, has all the drama in chat and is constantly whining about content being to hard.. that will be the casual guild.
Give me Progression raiding any day of the week.
Or you could find a guild full of like minded people who enjoy playing the game (read: Normal Non-Sociopaths) and bypass the children and elitist douchebags altogether.
Personally i never think there is any real achievement in games. Achievement in games are all illusion the devs create for players to have fun. Nothing more nothing else.
I don't know... I think atleast e-sports achievements are worth to take notice.
True. i was talking mostly about pve. All pve challenges are set up by devs, and they make sure if you spend the time, you can beat it . that is really not a true achievement in my beliefs.
The only reason why e-sport is different .. is because you beat others .. kind of like chess. I put "world-first" in this category, because to beat a raid "world first", you can beating the other raiders, not the raid itself.
Originally posted by DamonVile Most games that have raiding still have "hard core " guilds. Just look for the guild that thinks of you as a number and couldn't care less if you enjoy your time playing or sit outside the door waiting to be called in. That's hard core raiding...and it's not hard to see why it's died off.
Also look for the guild who recruits everyone that asks, doesn't care if you show up or not to raid, has all the drama in chat and is constantly whining about content being to hard.. that will be the casual guild.
Give me Progression raiding any day of the week.
Or you could find a guild full of like minded people who enjoy playing the game (read: Normal Non-Sociopaths) and bypass the children and elitist douchebags altogether.
Too much work, and too much drama. I have done it before and it wasn't that much fun. Progression guild is the worse in terms of commitment and drama.
Just do LFR, or solo and by-pass all those nonsense.
Look, if you don't have the time to commit to an MMO then you shouldn't play an MMO, simple.
Well... I don´t have time to play a "hardcore" MMO that´s why I choose to play a casual friendly MMO.... The thing is that people like you cry a river on developers for delivering for casuals too....
You want every MMO that comes out to fit your playstyle? To be clones? Raids in all MMOs? Vertical gear progression? Instant kill an enemy because you are equipped with that super-dupper weapon of yours that took you months to adquire? Thnx to God there are"different" games for "different" kinds of players...
If you don´t like Casual MMOs go play something else buddy...or stick to your super hardcore game forever
PS:
MMOs these days,like GW2,have casual appeal but also hardcore grinding for those who love it (Legendaries,fractals,,,)
Hope you find your game and enjoy it,but plz let the rest also enjoy theirs.
Comments
uh? It sounds like i play games for fun, and you play them for "achievement". I consider those things gameplay elements that create an illusion of achievement, but not real achievement like learning calculus, or climbing a real mountain.
Yeah I had to laugh at "climbing" a virtual mountain as an achievement. It may fit the dictionary definition of the word but I would hope few people would actually consider it one in their life.
Games do not give you a sense of achievement? I think 100% of athletes (and computer hackers) would disagree with you. All life is a game, after all. Play well, or at least don't come here and whine at those who do.
Luckily, i don't need you to like me to enjoy video games. -nariusseldon.
In F2P I think it's more a case of the game's trying to play the player's. -laserit
Casual players are not very interested in hardcore games so how are those players taking hardcore games to far?
Your problem is rather that developers are not very interestet in making hardcore games but rather wish to aim their games for different public.
End of story.
What does athletes have to do with video games?
All life is a game, just some part more trivial than others. Do you feel a sense of achievement when you figure out how to beat the computer at tic-tac-toe?
Well a lot of what you said is opinion.
Is a lot of what Badspock said opinion?
No we don't agree at all. I was making fun of you. At the end when your life flashes before your eyes , it's going to suck when you get bored watching it.
It's his M.O.
Doesn't matter how many times you call him out on it or point out his obvious obsession with making every game playable by any and every drool bib recipient there is. Every game should be about fun his way. I don't think he can realize not everyone finds fun in the same things.
If this is indeed the case...I'd love to know how you retain a job considering your post count.
I personally feel there is no such thing. Been gaming since 1982 on nearly every console game, PC's, the Arcade (When it was around...wish they still were), etc etc. I consider myself a gamer, nothing more.
I think the term "hardcore gamer" started as a jab at those who prefer strategy or a bit higher level of difficulty to their games by those who prefer games otherwise.
I don't get how so many state they like raid content...but aren't social within MMORPG's or like grouping...which is what is required for raid content.
I don't know... I think atleast e-sports achievements are worth to take notice.
I skate to where the puck is going to be, not where it has been -Wayne Gretzky
I love to raid. I love to group. I tend to group with people I know or have grouped with before.. guild mates and friends.
I am social to an extent, I'm not going to go out of my way to spend an hour answering questions in chat. I will however spend hours helping friends and guild mates get needed gear, farming mats for raids or just dicking around.
Just because people who raid seriously don't seem Social to you, doesn't mean they aren't. It just means they aren't social with YOU.
Lets see your Battle Stations /r/battlestations
Battle Station
Defensive much?
I wasn't talking about my gaming experiences personally. But rather those here who constantly say they don't like talking to others and like to solo...yet say they like raid content. Makes no sense to me.
Defensive much?
I wasn't talking about my gaming experiences personally. But rather those here who constantly say they don't like talking to others and like to solo...yet say they like raid content. Makes no sense to me.
Not defensive at all. Was making a point that things aren't always what they appear.
Lets see your Battle Stations /r/battlestations
Battle Station
Excellent point Spock and one that I question the Devs with. Why spend all this money on a game and risk losing everything? Why not spend LESS money and make a SMALLER game that can do one thing really well.
The problem I have with these AAA titles is they spend millions of dollars to try and cater to all game players -- but deliver a below average product across all facets.
Spend less on marketing and trying to make the next best thing and focus on what you want the game to be. It will be of more value than what we are getting today.
It comes down to this...who has more money to spend?
"Casual players" (hate this overused term) are apparently the ones spending the most money...and it is relatively easy to make content for them.
There are SO MANY types of hardcore players (raiders, dungeon divers, farmers, PvE-ers, PvPers, RvRers, etc) that make up a SMALLER population of players relative to casuals that it is often difficult to make content to suit them all.
So do you make content for those who are willing to spend more money and have greater numbers?
Or do you make content for those who are will to spend more TIME in the game and have smaller numbers?
Or maybe there is a way we can all co-exist...
"As you read these words, a release is seven days or less away or has just happened within the last seven days those are now the only two states youll find the world of Tyria."...Guild Wars 2
Vorch that is a valid statement.
You missed one thing though.
Casual players spend more money when they actually play.
The hardcore players are the ones who don't jump ship every time the wind blows.
Lets see your Battle Stations /r/battlestations
Battle Station
That pretty much sums me up. I'm in a guild. But typically not on when the guildies are on. So I solo and dont yearn to quest with my guildmates. Questing is personal to me. I want to do it at my own pace. What happens if I want to go fishing or do something else when the person you are playing wants to go on to the next quest or do something else? It gets problematic and I dont think people really look at that.
On the other end raiding is hella fun. But its specific. You are with yoru guildmates or friends for a specific purposes of taking down some massive monster. You have to work in cohesion and as a team. learning how to do that and reaching the achievement of taking down the raid boss is exciting.
I don't see why you think they have to be mutually exclusive.
They can make the same money on both...it would just be over a longer period of time with the vet crowd (Via monthly sub options.
Basically I see it as....
- Casuals: Hop games after a few months...but spend a lot on cash shop items, box price and and other extras.
- Vets: Stay with the game months/years (If good of course) on the box price and a monthly sub fee (Plus expansions).
But co-existence will probably never happen as neither side can agree on anything...and whichever side got more attention, the other side would whine excessively until neither side has what they want, population goes down due to game breaking garbage, game dies.
But companies rather get the money fast...so....here we are.
I wasn't clear, but yes, hardcore players will spend more TIME in game. However, they do not spend more MONEY as a population compared to casuals. In GENERAL, they are using more server resources while paying less money. Casuals will pay for cool, cute, and quirky items, but not play as often...thus utilizing fewer server resources while paying MORE money...
In fact, the only way to get money consistently from the hardcore crowd has been the P2P model, which has been shown to only work in rare cases, as opposed to the B2P, F2P, and Freemium models. I'm basing this on monetization numbers from Nexon, NCSoft, and PerfectWorld.
What we are seeing is an industry trying to find a balance...you want a hardcore base to keep your game populated, but you also want people actually BUYING things for your game. And appealing 100% to hardcore audiences simply doesn't cut it in 2013.
"As you read these words, a release is seven days or less away or has just happened within the last seven days those are now the only two states youll find the world of Tyria."...Guild Wars 2
This is a great point, one I never really thought about before.
I really think the answer is simple - multiple server types or difficulty settings.
In the old days where servers were expensive and you pretty much had dedicated hardware for a single shard/world - it probably didn't make sense to offer up tons of different server rule sets.
But now, servers are cheap, everything is virtual and resources are dynamically shared across mega-powerful and affordable hosts...
Why would it be SO bad to spin up a VM for a hardcore shard?
As long as the developer stated plainly that "hey, here is this new hardcore rule set server for ya'll. It may not be balanced, and based on population we WILL NOT be spending as much dev time on it, but we'll do our best to make ya'll happy too."
I'd totally believe that would work.
Or you could find a guild full of like minded people who enjoy playing the game (read: Normal Non-Sociopaths) and bypass the children and elitist douchebags altogether.
True. i was talking mostly about pve. All pve challenges are set up by devs, and they make sure if you spend the time, you can beat it . that is really not a true achievement in my beliefs.
The only reason why e-sport is different .. is because you beat others .. kind of like chess. I put "world-first" in this category, because to beat a raid "world first", you can beating the other raiders, not the raid itself.
Too much work, and too much drama. I have done it before and it wasn't that much fun. Progression guild is the worse in terms of commitment and drama.
Just do LFR, or solo and by-pass all those nonsense.
Well... I don´t have time to play a "hardcore" MMO that´s why I choose to play a casual friendly MMO.... The thing is that people like you cry a river on developers for delivering for casuals too....
You want every MMO that comes out to fit your playstyle? To be clones? Raids in all MMOs? Vertical gear progression? Instant kill an enemy because you are equipped with that super-dupper weapon of yours that took you months to adquire? Thnx to God there are"different" games for "different" kinds of players...
If you don´t like Casual MMOs go play something else buddy...or stick to your super hardcore game forever
PS:
MMOs these days,like GW2,have casual appeal but also hardcore grinding for those who love it (Legendaries,fractals,,,)
Hope you find your game and enjoy it,but plz let the rest also enjoy theirs.