Originally posted by jonrd463 I voted yes, but this poll is a little extreme. Some PVP is okay. Factional wars, battlegrounds, etc., so long as the people involved have chosen to PVP via flagging. If the demand for PVP is as high as its proponents let on, there will be tons of people running around flagged for PVP at all times, so it shouldn't be a problem, right?
It is extreme...And of course there will be some kind of PvP...
But the poll is making it's point quite well so far...And there is a point to be made here...
That most PVPers don't visit PVE threads?
Nonsense. Any PVPer passionate enough to make their voice heard will participate in such a poll to prove their overwhelming numbers.
How would they even know what this poll was? All it says is PVE poll. The first thing I thought of was a poll about what type of PVE you wanted.
Originally posted by ice-vortex So what in hell would you do in a sandbox game without PVP?
I just have to wonder, with a question like that, what makes you play MMORPGs at all? Isn't PVP done better in other game types, like Arena based, or FPS or MOBAs? MMORPGs are all about the "world" aspect and while I enjoy pvp to some extent I don't need it to have a great MMORPG experience. FFXI for all intents and purposes didn't really have PVP but it had one of the most immersive and difficult PVE aspects I've ever played and I would happily go back into a game like that again.
No. Unlike what PVErs think, people who play PVP MMORPGs aren't looking for deathmatch. We want guild cities, siege warfare, territory control, and resource control on a massive scale.
No. Unlike what PVErs think, people who play PVP MMORPGs aren't looking for deathmatch. We want guild cities, siege warfare, territory control, and resource control on a massive scale.
Just because I think this would be a neat social experiment.
And yes before I begin I understand some people don't think a sandbox is really a sandbox without PvP...going with the theory that it is still a sandbox without. Just want to see how people vote on this one to compare it to the other poll.
So no PvP and just PvE what say you?
Voted yes and it is refreshing to see an overwhelmingly 81% majority for those who answered yes. However not to go off topic but you can have a sandbox without PvP of any kind, the two are not mutually exclusive, never have and never will be.
Sandbox means open world, non-linear gaming PERIOD!
Subscription Gaming, especially MMO gaming is a Cash grab bigger then the most P2W cash shop!
Bring Back Exploration and lengthy progression times. RPG's have always been about the Journey not the destination!!!
Just because I think this would be a neat social experiment.
And yes before I begin I understand some people don't think a sandbox is really a sandbox without PvP...going with the theory that it is still a sandbox without. Just want to see how people vote on this one to compare it to the other poll.
So no PvP and just PvE what say you?
Voted yes and it is refreshing to see an overwhelmingly 81% majority for those who answered yes. However not to go off topic but you can have a sandbox without PvP of any kind, the two are not mutually exclusive, never have and never will be.
It was a rather extreme poll trying to make a point, not really in line with reality.
I get the while sandbox needs some PvP and all that sort of thing. Trouble with it as I see it is you allow it in the world, then need to restrict it somehow (as in consequences) and people get all like, well this isn't a sandbox. So I thought let's just eliminate it all together and see if it makes a difference and clearly it hasn't as you said....81%
Just because I think this would be a neat social experiment.
And yes before I begin I understand some people don't think a sandbox is really a sandbox without PvP...going with the theory that it is still a sandbox without. Just want to see how people vote on this one to compare it to the other poll.
So no PvP and just PvE what say you?
Voted yes and it is refreshing to see an overwhelmingly 81% majority for those who answered yes. However not to go off topic but you can have a sandbox without PvP of any kind, the two are not mutually exclusive, never have and never will be.
^This
Couldn't agree more....but I voted wrong
Thought it was identical to the other vote thread....what can I say. Redundant threads got me reduntantly voting :P
I said No. Not because I'm a big pvper or whatever, but because a game that doesn't have it hasn't learned anything. We need the option to do whatever we can think of doing, that's what makes a good MMO. To leave out features at this point would be taking steps backwards. They leave one thing out, there's probably plenty other options and mechanics missing on top of it.
What's really sad about this whole debate, is that people are trying to control the fate of the game, even people that already weren't interested in playing it. Folks are so spoiled that they don't think anything should be made if it wasn't made for their specific target audience. Whatever, this world sucks and it's full of selfish idiots. It's a revelation.
Originally posted by ice-vortex So what in hell would you do in a sandbox game without PVP?
I just have to wonder, with a question like that, what makes you play MMORPGs at all? Isn't PVP done better in other game types, like Arena based, or FPS or MOBAs? MMORPGs are all about the "world" aspect and while I enjoy pvp to some extent I don't need it to have a great MMORPG experience. FFXI for all intents and purposes didn't really have PVP but it had one of the most immersive and difficult PVE aspects I've ever played and I would happily go back into a game like that again.
No. Unlike what PVErs think, people who play PVP MMORPGs aren't looking for deathmatch. We want guild cities, siege warfare, territory control, and resource control on a massive scale.
And giving people the option to opt out on this would prevent you from having these features how?
There are 3 types of people in the world. 1.) Those who make things happen 2.) Those who watch things happen 3.) And those who wonder "What the %#*& just happened?!"
Originally posted by ice-vortex So what in hell would you do in a sandbox game without PVP?
I just have to wonder, with a question like that, what makes you play MMORPGs at all? Isn't PVP done better in other game types, like Arena based, or FPS or MOBAs? MMORPGs are all about the "world" aspect and while I enjoy pvp to some extent I don't need it to have a great MMORPG experience. FFXI for all intents and purposes didn't really have PVP but it had one of the most immersive and difficult PVE aspects I've ever played and I would happily go back into a game like that again.
No. Unlike what PVErs think, people who play PVP MMORPGs aren't looking for deathmatch. We want guild cities, siege warfare, territory control, and resource control on a massive scale.
And giving people the option to opt out on this would prevent you from having these features how?
Territory control means you can't enter someone else's territory without their permission. If you trespass, you risk getting pked. It also means other guilds can do incursions into the enemy territory. Sorry, I just don't like the idea of an invulnerability switch.
Originally posted by ice-vortex So what in hell would you do in a sandbox game without PVP?
I just have to wonder, with a question like that, what makes you play MMORPGs at all? Isn't PVP done better in other game types, like Arena based, or FPS or MOBAs? MMORPGs are all about the "world" aspect and while I enjoy pvp to some extent I don't need it to have a great MMORPG experience. FFXI for all intents and purposes didn't really have PVP but it had one of the most immersive and difficult PVE aspects I've ever played and I would happily go back into a game like that again.
No. Unlike what PVErs think, people who play PVP MMORPGs aren't looking for deathmatch. We want guild cities, siege warfare, territory control, and resource control on a massive scale.
And giving people the option to opt out on this would prevent you from having these features how?
Territory control means you can't enter someone else's territory without their permission. If you trespass, you risk getting pked. It also means other guilds can do incursions into the enemy territory. Sorry, I just don't like the idea of an invulnerability switch.
Opting out doesnt have to mean a switch. What if this territory control existed in a specific region that PvEers didnt have to worry about ever entering because their form of gameplay wouldnt require traveling there? You could have territory to control, siege based resources important to PvP guilds could be found exclusively in that area and those resources would not be needed for anything PvE related. Again, don't need full on world wide PvP for the features you want in a game.
There are 3 types of people in the world. 1.) Those who make things happen 2.) Those who watch things happen 3.) And those who wonder "What the %#*& just happened?!"
Anything with safe zones or built in player protection, outside of that of starter cities, is not a true sandbox. It's fact whether you like it or not. I enjoy PVE, I like PVP occasionally. I love world exploration and whatnot. I just want a thriving, player run, virtual world, and any time you have the game doing anything for you or making any decisions for you, you are getting themeparked by a trail of reeses pieces, not experiencing a sandbox. I love RPGS in general, so regardless, if it's a good game it's a good game...but ANY game that leave out features that were appreciated in earlier titles has already failed in my eyes.
Leaving pvp out completely (whether I enjoy it or not)? /GTFOuttahere
Originally posted by ice-vortex So what in hell would you do in a sandbox game without PVP?
I just have to wonder, with a question like that, what makes you play MMORPGs at all? Isn't PVP done better in other game types, like Arena based, or FPS or MOBAs? MMORPGs are all about the "world" aspect and while I enjoy pvp to some extent I don't need it to have a great MMORPG experience. FFXI for all intents and purposes didn't really have PVP but it had one of the most immersive and difficult PVE aspects I've ever played and I would happily go back into a game like that again.
No. Unlike what PVErs think, people who play PVP MMORPGs aren't looking for deathmatch. We want guild cities, siege warfare, territory control, and resource control on a massive scale.
You can have all those things and I might even play within that boundary at times and I agree those types of things are important for longevity and broad appeal but it needs an option or consensual nature not something that is always on.
Sandbox means open world, non-linear gaming PERIOD!
Subscription Gaming, especially MMO gaming is a Cash grab bigger then the most P2W cash shop!
Bring Back Exploration and lengthy progression times. RPG's have always been about the Journey not the destination!!!
Anything with safe zones or built in player protection, outside of that of starter cities, is not a true sandbox. It's fact whether you like it or not. I enjoy PVE, I like PVP occasionally. I love world exploration and whatnot. I just want a thriving, player run, virtual world, and any time you have the game doing anything for you or making any decisions for you, you are getting themeparked by a trail of reeses pieces, not experiencing a sandbox. I love RPGS in general, so regardless, if it's a good game it's a good game...but ANY game that leave out features that were appreciated in earlier titles has already failed in my eyes.
Leaving pvp out completely (whether I enjoy it or not)? /GTFOuttahere
What is this? The dark ages?
Says who? This argument is always brought up but has never been proven factually true because as stated time and time again PvP and Sandbox are not mutually exclusive. You can have one without the other and that is a fact of life as well as historical accuracy. Opinions are not something to be thrown around as fact and makes for a rather easily dismissed argument.
No one, especially me is talking about leaving out PvP, even though I would prefer too. What we are discussing the need to have options for consensual PvP, forcing anything regardless of system is bad game play.
Sandbox means open world, non-linear gaming PERIOD!
Subscription Gaming, especially MMO gaming is a Cash grab bigger then the most P2W cash shop!
Bring Back Exploration and lengthy progression times. RPG's have always been about the Journey not the destination!!!
Anything with safe zones or built in player protection, outside of that of starter cities, is not a true sandbox. It's fact whether you like it or not. I enjoy PVE, I like PVP occasionally. I love world exploration and whatnot. I just want a thriving, player run, virtual world, and any time you have the game doing anything for you or making any decisions for you, you are getting themeparked by a trail of reeses pieces, not experiencing a sandbox. I love RPGS in general, so regardless, if it's a good game it's a good game...but ANY game that leave out features that were appreciated in earlier titles has already failed in my eyes.
Leaving pvp out completely (whether I enjoy it or not)? /GTFOuttahere
What is this? The dark ages?
But as asked before, where does it state that Sandbox = PvP?
There are 3 types of people in the world. 1.) Those who make things happen 2.) Those who watch things happen 3.) And those who wonder "What the %#*& just happened?!"
Anything with safe zones or built in player protection, outside of that of starter cities, is not a true sandbox. It's fact whether you like it or not.
Actually it's not really fact. A "true sandbox", is something like Second Life - here are the tools, make anything, nothing is predefined. Pretty much everything else out there is some mix of sandbox and themepark. This includes EVE, includes SWG.
SWG is the best example - awesome sandbox game, no need to ever partake in PvP if you don't want. (And by sandbox i mean that it's more sandbox than themepark).
"Id rather work on something with great potential than on fulfilling a promise of mediocrity."
- Raph Koster
Tried: AO,EQ,EQ2,DAoC,SWG,AA,SB,HZ,CoX,PS,GA,TR,IV,GnH,EVE, PP,DnL,WAR,MxO,SWG,FE,VG,AoC,DDO,LoTRO,Rift,TOR,Aion,Tera,TSW,GW2,DCUO,CO,STO Favourites: AO,SWG,EVE,TR,LoTRO,TSW,EQ2, Firefall Currently Playing: ESO
Originally posted by ice-vortex So what in hell would you do in a sandbox game without PVP?
I just have to wonder, with a question like that, what makes you play MMORPGs at all? Isn't PVP done better in other game types, like Arena based, or FPS or MOBAs? MMORPGs are all about the "world" aspect and while I enjoy pvp to some extent I don't need it to have a great MMORPG experience. FFXI for all intents and purposes didn't really have PVP but it had one of the most immersive and difficult PVE aspects I've ever played and I would happily go back into a game like that again.
No. Unlike what PVErs think, people who play PVP MMORPGs aren't looking for deathmatch. We want guild cities, siege warfare, territory control, and resource control on a massive scale.
Besides guild cities done in SWG, what game that isn't one of the type above, has all of what you seek? I can't think of any, which brings me back to my point about MMORPGs not really being about that. Not that I wouldn't mind that sort of PVP in my game, but don't make the PVE side suffer for it either. A great MMORPG is one that has a ton of game aspects for different players. You know, just like life has a million different choices and paths to take.
Anything with safe zones or built in player protection, outside of that of starter cities, is not a true sandbox. It's fact whether you like it or not. I enjoy PVE, I like PVP occasionally. I love world exploration and whatnot. I just want a thriving, player run, virtual world, and any time you have the game doing anything for you or making any decisions for you, you are getting themeparked by a trail of reeses pieces, not experiencing a sandbox. I love RPGS in general, so regardless, if it's a good game it's a good game...but ANY game that leave out features that were appreciated in earlier titles has already failed in my eyes.
Leaving pvp out completely (whether I enjoy it or not)? /GTFOuttahere
Originally posted by wordiz Anything with safe zones or built in player protection, outside of that of starter cities, is not a true sandbox. It's fact whether you like it or not. I enjoy PVE, I like PVP occasionally. I love world exploration and whatnot. I just want a thriving, player run, virtual world, and any time you have the game doing anything for you or making any decisions for you, you are getting themeparked by a trail of reeses pieces, not experiencing a sandbox. I love RPGS in general, so regardless, if it's a good game it's a good game...but ANY game that leave out features that were appreciated in earlier titles has already failed in my eyes.Leaving pvp out completely (whether I enjoy it or not)? /GTFOuttahereWhat is this? The dark ages?
But as asked before, where does it state that Sandbox = PvP?
Apparently, there were some players who, as children, beat up other children in their sandbox for their position in the box, their toys in the box, and their constructions made of sand in the box.
- Al
Personally the only modern MMORPG trend that annoys me is the idea that MMOs need to be designed in a way to attract people who don't actually like MMOs. Which to me makes about as much sense as someone trying to figure out a way to get vegetarians to eat at their steakhouse. - FARGIN_WAR
Comments
build sandcastles to defend against crabs ?
How would they even know what this poll was? All it says is PVE poll. The first thing I thought of was a poll about what type of PVE you wanted.
No. Unlike what PVErs think, people who play PVP MMORPGs aren't looking for deathmatch. We want guild cities, siege warfare, territory control, and resource control on a massive scale.
This
Life IS Feudal
Voted yes and it is refreshing to see an overwhelmingly 81% majority for those who answered yes. However not to go off topic but you can have a sandbox without PvP of any kind, the two are not mutually exclusive, never have and never will be.
Sandbox means open world, non-linear gaming PERIOD!
Subscription Gaming, especially MMO gaming is a Cash grab bigger then the most P2W cash shop!
Bring Back Exploration and lengthy progression times. RPG's have always been about the Journey not the destination!!!
It was a rather extreme poll trying to make a point, not really in line with reality.
I get the while sandbox needs some PvP and all that sort of thing. Trouble with it as I see it is you allow it in the world, then need to restrict it somehow (as in consequences) and people get all like, well this isn't a sandbox. So I thought let's just eliminate it all together and see if it makes a difference and clearly it hasn't as you said....81%
^This
Couldn't agree more....but I voted wrong
Thought it was identical to the other vote thread....what can I say. Redundant threads got me reduntantly voting :P
I said No. Not because I'm a big pvper or whatever, but because a game that doesn't have it hasn't learned anything. We need the option to do whatever we can think of doing, that's what makes a good MMO. To leave out features at this point would be taking steps backwards. They leave one thing out, there's probably plenty other options and mechanics missing on top of it.
What's really sad about this whole debate, is that people are trying to control the fate of the game, even people that already weren't interested in playing it. Folks are so spoiled that they don't think anything should be made if it wasn't made for their specific target audience. Whatever, this world sucks and it's full of selfish idiots. It's a revelation.
http://thewordiz.wordpress.com/
And giving people the option to opt out on this would prevent you from having these features how?
There are 3 types of people in the world.
1.) Those who make things happen
2.) Those who watch things happen
3.) And those who wonder "What the %#*& just happened?!"
To be fair, minecraft is only fun on PvP servers.
Sandbox means open world, non-linear gaming PERIOD!
Subscription Gaming, especially MMO gaming is a Cash grab bigger then the most P2W cash shop!
Bring Back Exploration and lengthy progression times. RPG's have always been about the Journey not the destination!!!
To you. For me its more fun building and socializing.
Sandbox means open world, non-linear gaming PERIOD!
Subscription Gaming, especially MMO gaming is a Cash grab bigger then the most P2W cash shop!
Bring Back Exploration and lengthy progression times. RPG's have always been about the Journey not the destination!!!
Territory control means you can't enter someone else's territory without their permission. If you trespass, you risk getting pked. It also means other guilds can do incursions into the enemy territory. Sorry, I just don't like the idea of an invulnerability switch.
There was never any steam in that balloon In the first place as evident by any sense of Triple-A quality FFA PvP MMO.
Sandbox means open world, non-linear gaming PERIOD!
Subscription Gaming, especially MMO gaming is a Cash grab bigger then the most P2W cash shop!
Bring Back Exploration and lengthy progression times. RPG's have always been about the Journey not the destination!!!
LOL!!
Minecraft....on PvP...was the only fun way huh?
Worst PvP ever...and no one cared. Only kids did it.
Opting out doesnt have to mean a switch. What if this territory control existed in a specific region that PvEers didnt have to worry about ever entering because their form of gameplay wouldnt require traveling there? You could have territory to control, siege based resources important to PvP guilds could be found exclusively in that area and those resources would not be needed for anything PvE related. Again, don't need full on world wide PvP for the features you want in a game.
There are 3 types of people in the world.
1.) Those who make things happen
2.) Those who watch things happen
3.) And those who wonder "What the %#*& just happened?!"
Anything with safe zones or built in player protection, outside of that of starter cities, is not a true sandbox. It's fact whether you like it or not. I enjoy PVE, I like PVP occasionally. I love world exploration and whatnot. I just want a thriving, player run, virtual world, and any time you have the game doing anything for you or making any decisions for you, you are getting themeparked by a trail of reeses pieces, not experiencing a sandbox. I love RPGS in general, so regardless, if it's a good game it's a good game...but ANY game that leave out features that were appreciated in earlier titles has already failed in my eyes.
Leaving pvp out completely (whether I enjoy it or not)? /GTFOuttahere
What is this? The dark ages?
http://thewordiz.wordpress.com/
You can have all those things and I might even play within that boundary at times and I agree those types of things are important for longevity and broad appeal but it needs an option or consensual nature not something that is always on.
Sandbox means open world, non-linear gaming PERIOD!
Subscription Gaming, especially MMO gaming is a Cash grab bigger then the most P2W cash shop!
Bring Back Exploration and lengthy progression times. RPG's have always been about the Journey not the destination!!!
Says who? This argument is always brought up but has never been proven factually true because as stated time and time again PvP and Sandbox are not mutually exclusive. You can have one without the other and that is a fact of life as well as historical accuracy. Opinions are not something to be thrown around as fact and makes for a rather easily dismissed argument.
No one, especially me is talking about leaving out PvP, even though I would prefer too. What we are discussing the need to have options for consensual PvP, forcing anything regardless of system is bad game play.
Sandbox means open world, non-linear gaming PERIOD!
Subscription Gaming, especially MMO gaming is a Cash grab bigger then the most P2W cash shop!
Bring Back Exploration and lengthy progression times. RPG's have always been about the Journey not the destination!!!
But as asked before, where does it state that Sandbox = PvP?
There are 3 types of people in the world.
1.) Those who make things happen
2.) Those who watch things happen
3.) And those who wonder "What the %#*& just happened?!"
Actually it's not really fact. A "true sandbox", is something like Second Life - here are the tools, make anything, nothing is predefined. Pretty much everything else out there is some mix of sandbox and themepark. This includes EVE, includes SWG.
SWG is the best example - awesome sandbox game, no need to ever partake in PvP if you don't want. (And by sandbox i mean that it's more sandbox than themepark).
"Id rather work on something with great potential than on fulfilling a promise of mediocrity."
- Raph Koster
Tried: AO,EQ,EQ2,DAoC,SWG,AA,SB,HZ,CoX,PS,GA,TR,IV,GnH,EVE, PP,DnL,WAR,MxO,SWG,FE,VG,AoC,DDO,LoTRO,Rift,TOR,Aion,Tera,TSW,GW2,DCUO,CO,STO
Favourites: AO,SWG,EVE,TR,LoTRO,TSW,EQ2, Firefall
Currently Playing: ESO
Besides guild cities done in SWG, what game that isn't one of the type above, has all of what you seek? I can't think of any, which brings me back to my point about MMORPGs not really being about that. Not that I wouldn't mind that sort of PVP in my game, but don't make the PVE side suffer for it either. A great MMORPG is one that has a ton of game aspects for different players. You know, just like life has a million different choices and paths to take.
Sandbox has nothing to do with PvP.
You are wrong. It's as simple as that.
- Al
Personally the only modern MMORPG trend that annoys me is the idea that MMOs need to be designed in a way to attract people who don't actually like MMOs. Which to me makes about as much sense as someone trying to figure out a way to get vegetarians to eat at their steakhouse.- FARGIN_WAR