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Realistic vs. stylized aesthetic. Which would you prefer? (poll)

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  • Gallus85Gallus85 Member Posts: 1,092
    Originally posted by Iadien

    There will be a lot of unhappy people for those expecting a realistic look.

    Senior Art Director discussing the visuals for EQN

    From the linked screenshot it looks like they're going for a more realistic look and the Forgelight engine, specifically in Planetside 2, has amazing high end realistic graphics.  Sure it's not Crysis 3, but it's pretty close.

    Legends of Kesmai, UO, EQ, AO, DAoC, AC, SB, RO, SWG, EVE, EQ2, CoH, GW, VG:SOH, WAR, Aion, DF, CO, MO, DN, Tera, SWTOR, RO2, DP, GW2, PS2, BnS, NW, FF:XIV, ESO, EQ:NL

  • Gallus85Gallus85 Member Posts: 1,092
    Originally posted by lizardbones

    If I have to choose one way or the other, I'll take stylized graphics over realistic graphics. Mostly because the realistic graphics don't look realistic. Not on people anyway. You always end up staring at lifeless mannequins that are one step away from trying to suck your eyes out of your head because they don't really understand how humans work.

    I don't really think things heading all the way towards cartoons is the best bet either. I think starting with realistic graphics, and then stylizing them just enough to get out of the uncanny valley is the way to go.

    My ass.  Realistic style has worked well for many years now.  Games like Half Life 2, Left 4 Dead, Crysis, Last of Us, Metro 2033, Mass Effect series, just to name a few  all have extremely well done, realistic style art and characters.  With wide range of facial emotions and body language.  Far from lifeless.  Now, with an MMORPG you have a lot more work on just the game itself.  From the loot, combat mechanics, balancing, economies, etc etc... a lot of times, good graphics or realistic facial expressions or really in depth character customization is just completely out of scope for the amount of time and money the studio has to work with.

    This thread isn't "What do you think they can do".  It's "What's better if they can do it".

    That just comes down to personal preference, but realistic looking characters that are full of life are things that we can accomplish in this day and age, and it's something a lot of studios take pride in.

    Legends of Kesmai, UO, EQ, AO, DAoC, AC, SB, RO, SWG, EVE, EQ2, CoH, GW, VG:SOH, WAR, Aion, DF, CO, MO, DN, Tera, SWTOR, RO2, DP, GW2, PS2, BnS, NW, FF:XIV, ESO, EQ:NL

  • rodingorodingo Member RarePosts: 2,870
    The more stylized of the art design, the more extreme and interesting the animations can be made.  It's just the nature of the Uncanny Valley effect. 

    "If I offended you, you needed it" -Corey Taylor

  • IadienIadien Member UncommonPosts: 638
    Originally posted by Gallus85
    Originally posted by Iadien

    There will be a lot of unhappy people for those expecting a realistic look.

    Senior Art Director discussing the visuals for EQN

    From the linked screenshot it looks like they're going for a more realistic look and the Forgelight engine, specifically in Planetside 2, has amazing high end realistic graphics.  Sure it's not Crysis 3, but it's pretty close.

    As I already linked, they want a stylized look closer to EQ1, again that does not mean WoW graphics.

  • apocolusterapocoluster Member UncommonPosts: 1,326
    The only reason I couldn't get into wow was due to the graffix

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  • rojoArcueidrojoArcueid Member EpicPosts: 10,722
    Originally posted by Aceshighhhh
    Originally posted by rojo6934

    for EQN and every mmorpg i want stylized aesthetics. Stylized does not mean it will look like WoW which a lot of people seem to think that way. There are a lot of stylized types (WoW and WIldstar look similar, GW2 is stylized, Tera is stylized, all those colorful mmorpgs are stylized in their own way. Thats what i want in mmorpgs.

    Look at WoW's vanilla compared to the last two expansions. Vanilla looks horribly outdated and the latest expansions updated the graphics and look really good and fresh.

    Now, imagine if Age of conan or The Secret World were released in 2005 up to this day no matter how much they update their realistic graphics it would look like washed out garbage. AoC started to look dated already (except for the amazing characters). TSW will be the same maybe a couple more years down the road. Even Rift started looking dated already because of the washed out rubber-ish textures behind the purple / black / green / brown palette.

     

    Realistic graphics dont have the longevity of stylized graphics. Their visual appeal is for very short term. Period

    Wholeheartedly disagree.

    If Blizzard can update WoW's graphics to make them more appropriate for this generation, why can't any company do the same with a realistic looking game? I think these are just assumptions based on your opinion that stylized aesthetics "age better". Look at EVE online - they've done a terrific job at updating their graphic style, and it's very much a realistic looking aesthetic.

    I've already made the point that we're hitting diminishing returns in terms of graphical advancements, so relying on cartoony aesthetics for longevity isn't quite necessary anymore.

    I really just want something that looks different. Over-emphasized shoulderpads, disproportional limbs, etc have all been done to hell in these western games. If SOE truly wants EQN to be different, it's time for a realistic looking fantasy MMO.

    Age of Conan already did that along with a completely engine overhaul to the new version and the only thing that look like it was made for today standards is the water and the character models.

    As for your last two paragraphs, i agree that we should see different things taht fully use the power of todays graphical advancements, but that doesnt mean it looks like real life. Colorful  aesthetics can be as mature looking as AoC or TSW. IT doesnt have to look cartoony like WoW, just stylized. Look at FFXIV for example. You can make a western style mmorpg with that level of graphical advancement that you mention. GW2 is another good example. Grab a game like GW2 or FFXIV and change the theme from vibrant to a dark atmosphere and youll have a stylized version of TSW's dark theme with even longer aging capabilities.

     

    Also its about personal preference, but its been proven many times that stylized games age better than real life-esque graphics. Maybe im wrong but I think you want it to look more mature which is ok by me, but mature does not mean realistic.





  • Gallus85Gallus85 Member Posts: 1,092
    Originally posted by Iadien
    Originally posted by Gallus85
    Originally posted by Iadien

    There will be a lot of unhappy people for those expecting a realistic look.

    Senior Art Director discussing the visuals for EQN

    From the linked screenshot it looks like they're going for a more realistic look and the Forgelight engine, specifically in Planetside 2, has amazing high end realistic graphics.  Sure it's not Crysis 3, but it's pretty close.

    As I already linked, they want a stylized look closer to EQ1, again that does not mean WoW graphics.

    Well you can have realistic style asthetics (Crysis, Half Life, Left 4 Dead) and have stylized combat animation and clothing/armor/weapons. (Aion, Blade N Soul, etc)

    You can also have stylized graphics (cell shaded, WoW, etc) and have realistic clothing, style and combat animations (Mortal Online, Chivalry, etc)

    From what we've seen so far they're going for realistic textures, landmasses and character models.

    I have no doubt that the combat animations, the weapons, the armor, the clothing and the structures are going to be heavily stylized.

    Legends of Kesmai, UO, EQ, AO, DAoC, AC, SB, RO, SWG, EVE, EQ2, CoH, GW, VG:SOH, WAR, Aion, DF, CO, MO, DN, Tera, SWTOR, RO2, DP, GW2, PS2, BnS, NW, FF:XIV, ESO, EQ:NL

  • xAPOCxxAPOCx Member UncommonPosts: 869
    Originally posted by Aceshighhhh
    Originally posted by Iadien
    Originally posted by Aceshighhhh
    Originally posted by Iadien
    There will be a lot of unhappy people for those expecting a realistic look.

    It's really a shame because SOE has a great opportunity with the Forgelight engine to make a beautiful realistic game.

    They argue that they want a new game that is different than the rest, but how exactly is a familiar cartoony aesthetic different from the recent slew of MMO's?

    Well, the art director claims it will be a different look than what we've seen before... who knows.

    Do you have a source on this? Considering the concept art we've seen, the leaked video, and the image Smedly posted - it looks very similar to a WoW-style

    I havent seen a vid for eqnext. when can i view this thing

     

    image

  • AticusWellesAticusWelles Member Posts: 152

    I don't really care either way, though given the option I would choose photo-realistic. But graphics are one of the last things I think about when it comes to choosing an MMORPG.

     

    But yeah, 9 times out of 10 I would take photo-realistic graphics, especially in a virtual world game.

  • waynejr2waynejr2 Member EpicPosts: 7,771
    Originally posted by Aceshighhhh
    I've been seeing a lot of debate lately about how EQN should look. A lot of people are really put off by the recent trend of stylized graphics, although many argue they age much better. How should EQN look, and why?

     Recent?  Wow is coming up on 9 years old this fall.  Certainly not recent.

    I can't believe we are still having this debate.  The lesson from EQ2 vs WOW settlled the matter.  Realisitic has to be updated often or it will go out of date.  Stylized has a much longer freshness date.

    http://www.youhaventlived.com/qblog/2010/QBlog190810A.html  

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  • AceshighhhhAceshighhhh Member Posts: 185
    Originally posted by waynejr2
    Originally posted by Aceshighhhh
    I've been seeing a lot of debate lately about how EQN should look. A lot of people are really put off by the recent trend of stylized graphics, although many argue they age much better. How should EQN look, and why?

     Recent?  Wow is coming up on 9 years old this fall.  Certainly not recent.

    I can't believe we are still having this debate.  The lesson from EQ2 vs WOW settlled the matter.  Realisitic has to be updated often or it will go out of date.  Stylized has a much longer freshness date.

    Untrue, look at EVE online, it still looks great despite being realistic. Also please read my previous post:

     

    This may have been true 10 years ago when we've had exponentially worse looking graphics, but in this generation we're hitting a plateau when it comes to real noticeable graphic enhancements. If SOE decides to make a realistic game now, it would still look quite good in 10 years - they also would have plenty opportunity to keep upgrading the engine and make it look better as time goes on.

    I don't know anybody who says "man, WoW really looks so great, I think I'm gonna start playing it!" If anything, many people are put off by how silly it looks. If SOE is seriously looking for more numbers here, I think a dark realistic aesthetic would sell much better than a cartoony style which looks catered toward children.

    I see stylized artwork as more of a gimmick to try to sell the game as being different - which I think is counterproductive in and of itself because literally almost every current fantasy MMO out there trying to go for that silly style.

  • Soki123Soki123 Member RarePosts: 2,558
    Originally posted by waynejr2
    Originally posted by Aceshighhhh
    I've been seeing a lot of debate lately about how EQN should look. A lot of people are really put off by the recent trend of stylized graphics, although many argue they age much better. How should EQN look, and why?

     Recent?  Wow is coming up on 9 years old this fall.  Certainly not recent.

    I can't believe we are still having this debate.  The lesson from EQ2 vs WOW settlled the matter.  Realisitic has to be updated often or it will go out of date.  Stylized has a much longer freshness date.

    Exactly. Besides it s a video game, does it really need to be realistic.

  • IadienIadien Member UncommonPosts: 638
    Originally posted by xAPOCx

    I havent seen a vid for eqnext. when can i view this thing

    I took it down. =p

    Originally posted by Aceshighhhh

    This may have been true 10 years ago when we've had exponentially worse looking graphics, but in this generation we're hitting a plateau when it comes to real noticeable graphic enhancements. If SOE decides to make a realistic game now, it would still look quite good in 10 years - they also would have plenty opportunity to keep upgrading the engine and make it look better as time goes on.

    I don't know anybody who says "man, WoW really looks so great, I think I'm gonna start playing it!" If anything, many people are put off by how silly it looks. If SOE is seriously looking for more numbers here, I think a dark realistic aesthetic would sell much better than a cartoony style which looks catered toward children.

    I see stylized artwork as more of a gimmick to try to sell the game as being different - which I think is counterproductive in and of itself because literally almost every current fantasy MMO out there trying to go for that silly style.

    You can call it WoW all you want, but I already showed you that the original EQ was stylized.
  • TheLizardbonesTheLizardbones Member CommonPosts: 10,910


    Originally posted by Gallus85

    Originally posted by lizardbones If I have to choose one way or the other, I'll take stylized graphics over realistic graphics. Mostly because the realistic graphics don't look realistic. Not on people anyway. You always end up staring at lifeless mannequins that are one step away from trying to suck your eyes out of your head because they don't really understand how humans work. I don't really think things heading all the way towards cartoons is the best bet either. I think starting with realistic graphics, and then stylizing them just enough to get out of the uncanny valley is the way to go.
    My ass.  Realistic style has worked well for many years now.  Games like Half Life 2, Left 4 Dead, Crysis, Last of Us, Metro 2033, Mass Effect series, just to name a few  all have extremely well done, realistic style art and characters.  With wide range of facial emotions and body language.  Far from lifeless.  Now, with an MMORPG you have a lot more work on just the game itself.  From the loot, combat mechanics, balancing, economies, etc etc... a lot of times, good graphics or realistic facial expressions or really in depth character customization is just completely out of scope for the amount of time and money the studio has to work with.

    This thread isn't "What do you think they can do".  It's "What's better if they can do it".

    That just comes down to personal preference, but realistic looking characters that are full of life are things that we can accomplish in this day and age, and it's something a lot of studios take pride in.



    Those are awesome still shots. And the play through looks really good too. Oh, wait. There's a difference between doing something that looks great in a single player game, and then doing the exact same thing in an MMORPG, which is what we're discussing here, yes? If EQN can have graphics on par with The Last Of Us, then great. They won't though, because it's an MMORPG, not a single player game.

    **

    Also, do you really not notice how their eyes never look at you? It's like walking around in a world full of people who always look at your left shoulder.

    I can not remember winning or losing a single debate on the internet.

  • JedidiahTheadoreJedidiahTheadore Member Posts: 48

    [quote]


    Originally posted by Soki123

    Originally posted by waynejr2

    Originally posted by Aceshighhhh I've been seeing a lot of debate lately about how EQN should look. A lot of people are really put off by the recent trend of stylized graphics, although many argue they age much better. How should EQN look, and why?
     Recent?  Wow is coming up on 9 years old this fall.  Certainly not recent. I can't believe we are still having this debate.  The lesson from EQ2 vs WOW settlled the matter.  Realisitic has to be updated often or it will go out of date.  Stylized has a much longer freshness date.
    Exactly. Besides it s a video game, does it really need to be realistic.
    Its a matter of preference.  But I wouldn't go so far as to say WoWs graphics were ever fresh.  They were vomit inducing from the start.  I still had fun playing the game in spite of its sheer ugliness though.
  • DrakynnDrakynn Member Posts: 2,030
    Originally posted by lizardbones

     


    Originally posted by Gallus85

    Originally posted by lizardbones If I have to choose one way or the other, I'll take stylized graphics over realistic graphics. Mostly because the realistic graphics don't look realistic. Not on people anyway. You always end up staring at lifeless mannequins that are one step away from trying to suck your eyes out of your head because they don't really understand how humans work. I don't really think things heading all the way towards cartoons is the best bet either. I think starting with realistic graphics, and then stylizing them just enough to get out of the uncanny valley is the way to go.
    My ass.  Realistic style has worked well for many years now.  Games like Half Life 2, Left 4 Dead, Crysis, Last of Us, Metro 2033, Mass Effect series, just to name a few  all have extremely well done, realistic style art and characters.  With wide range of facial emotions and body language.  Far from lifeless.  Now, with an MMORPG you have a lot more work on just the game itself.  From the loot, combat mechanics, balancing, economies, etc etc... a lot of times, good graphics or realistic facial expressions or really in depth character customization is just completely out of scope for the amount of time and money the studio has to work with.

     

    This thread isn't "What do you think they can do".  It's "What's better if they can do it".

    That just comes down to personal preference, but realistic looking characters that are full of life are things that we can accomplish in this day and age, and it's something a lot of studios take pride in.

     

     



    Those are awesome still shots. And the play through looks really good too. Oh, wait. There's a difference between doing something that looks great in a single player game, and then doing the exact same thing in an MMORPG, which is what we're discussing here, yes? If EQN can have graphics on par with The Last Of Us, then great. They won't though, because it's an MMORPG, not a single player game.

     

    ^^^This.

    MMOs have to sacrifice graphic fidelity for practicality due to their nature,unless they do things like limit player character variation in looks and abilities or limit the amount of player characters that will ever be on screen at once.

    Rendering dozens to hundreds of Player Characters all dressed differently and firing off dozens of different abilities at once with little in the way of prediction will tax the highest end computer let alone the average PC and that's with current MMORPG graphics.Try doing that with SIngle Player type graphics from today's games or next gen and you'll be playing a slideshow.

  • KarbleKarble Member UncommonPosts: 750

    There needs to be a fine mix riding the line between the two.

     

    We want known things that are familiar and then build upon it with totally wild stuff as well. Just no anime or cartoony business please.

  • LokeroLokero Member RarePosts: 1,514

    I guess I might be the only person here who actually liked WoW's graphics.  It was certainly not realistic, but it was jam-packed with artistic style.

    That said, I would much rather have more realistic looking graphics in this generation.  Now that "realistic" actually means realistic, it's hard to not want things to look detailed and living.

    Realistic, but with style, not the stiff and boring kind of realistic.

  • waynejr2waynejr2 Member EpicPosts: 7,771
    Originally posted by JedidiahTheadore

    [quote]


    Originally posted by Soki123

    Originally posted by waynejr2

    Originally posted by Aceshighhhh I've been seeing a lot of debate lately about how EQN should look. A lot of people are really put off by the recent trend of stylized graphics, although many argue they age much better. How should EQN look, and why?
     Recent?  Wow is coming up on 9 years old this fall.  Certainly not recent. I can't believe we are still having this debate.  The lesson from EQ2 vs WOW settlled the matter.  Realisitic has to be updated often or it will go out of date.  Stylized has a much longer freshness date.
    Exactly. Besides it s a video game, does it really need to be realistic.
    Its a matter of preference.  But I wouldn't go so far as to say WoWs graphics were ever fresh.  They were vomit inducing from the start.  I still had fun playing the game in spite of its sheer ugliness though.

     

     Fresh as is not becoming stale as fast as the realistic fake graphics.

    As to saying it's a matter of preference, that is just too obvious for anyone to even state.  Unless you think people are talking about their neighbors opinion instead of their own?

    I don't play games for the graphics.  To me playing for graphics would be like people who stare at shiny objects or infants looking at their mobiles above their cribs.

    http://www.youhaventlived.com/qblog/2010/QBlog190810A.html  

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    Kyleran:  "Now there's the real trick, learning to accept and enjoy a game for what it offers rather than pass on what might be a great playing experience because it lacks a few features you prefer."

    John Henry Newman: "A man would do nothing if he waited until he could do it so well that no one could find fault."

    FreddyNoNose:  "A good game needs no defense; a bad game has no defense." "Easily digested content is just as easily forgotten."

    LacedOpium: "So the question that begs to be asked is, if you are not interested in the game mechanics that define the MMORPG genre, then why are you playing an MMORPG?"




  • JedidiahTheadoreJedidiahTheadore Member Posts: 48
    Originally posted by waynejr2
    Originally posted by JedidiahTheadore

    [quote]


    Originally posted by Soki123

    Originally posted by waynejr2

    Originally posted by Aceshighhhh I've been seeing a lot of debate lately about how EQN should look. A lot of people are really put off by the recent trend of stylized graphics, although many argue they age much better. How should EQN look, and why?
     Recent?  Wow is coming up on 9 years old this fall.  Certainly not recent. I can't believe we are still having this debate.  The lesson from EQ2 vs WOW settlled the matter.  Realisitic has to be updated often or it will go out of date.  Stylized has a much longer freshness date.
    Exactly. Besides it s a video game, does it really need to be realistic.
    Its a matter of preference.  But I wouldn't go so far as to say WoWs graphics were ever fresh.  They were vomit inducing from the start.  I still had fun playing the game in spite of its sheer ugliness though.

     

     Fresh as is not becoming stale as fast as the realistic fake graphics.

    As to saying it's a matter of preference, that is just too obvious for anyone to even state.  Unless you think people are talking about their neighbors opinion instead of their own?

    I don't play games for the graphics.  To me playing for graphics would be like people who stare at shiny objects or infants looking at their mobiles above their cribs.

    They were stale to begin with. Of course they aren't going to go stale as fast when that's the state they started in.

     

    Gameplay is definitely the most important aspect of a game, and playing for the graphics is a shallow experience, I agree with you on that.  But that doesn't change the fact that an ugly game is an ugly game (WoW was as homely as a crack whore IMO) and great graphics and great gameplay aren't mutually exclusive.

  • BetaguyBetaguy Member UncommonPosts: 2,629
    I don't have a preference, if done right either are good.
    "The King and the Pawn return to the same box at the end of the game"

  • BBPD766BBPD766 Member UncommonPosts: 98
    Originally posted by Iadien

    There will be a lot of unhappy people for those expecting a realistic look.

    Senior Art Director discussing the visuals for EQN

    I dunno how you can say there won't be a realistic look or otherwise as of yet. That was three years ago and things may have changed since then..

  • BBPD766BBPD766 Member UncommonPosts: 98
    Originally posted by Iadien
    Originally posted by AliceKaye

    I chose stylized. Reason being, it just ages much better than realistic does, in my opinion.

    I'm not saying the game needs to look like a gosh darn cartoon, but more stylized than realistic just seems to age better.

    Yeah, this is important, just because it isn't photo realistic doesn't mean it has to look like WoW and Wildstar.

    Originally posted by greenblood82
    Would the original eq models be considered stylized? Because i liked them much better than the newer luclin models.

    In the video I linked above the art director mentions going for a look closer to the original EQ.

    ....which was three years ago.

  • IadienIadien Member UncommonPosts: 638
    Originally posted by BBPD766
    Originally posted by Iadien

    There will be a lot of unhappy people for those expecting a realistic look.

    Senior Art Director discussing the visuals for EQN

    I dunno how you can say there won't be a realistic look or otherwise as of yet. That was three years ago and things may have changed since then..

    True, but I'll stick to facts, no matter how old they are, until we know otherwise.

  • Synns77Synns77 Member Posts: 124
    I've had to go stylised as I'm a firm believer that realistic very quickly outdates a game, BUT I must say that wow / wildstar is alittle too cartoony for my tastes SO I would pick something Inbetween. Unfortunatly that wasn't an option.
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