Originally posted by Iceman8235 I didn't make this post to flame SOE, but I've been gaming long enough to know that going from no information whatsoever to release in 5 months is optimistic. For that to happen, the plan they have would have to go perfectly from august 2nd to release day and anyone that's been around to watch a game develop from its infancy knows the plan almost never goes perfectly. Here's to hoping they prove me wrong and we're all playing a polished and revolutionary MMO by the end of the year.
I've speculated about this elsewhere.
Since a modern beta test is essentially nothing more than an extended server stress test, SOE might feel that they have enough expertise with server and network configuration to be able to forgo any kind of external beta test. This serves the dual purposes of keeping the information from competitors AND spoiler sides until the game is launched.
So, it might be possible that SOE is going to attempt something unique, a dark release, where there are few prior details about the product other than its name, genre and some basic machine requirements. This would give the community a new game, SOE would start earning direct income from the game, and they would begin trying to leverage this on their competitors.
It wouldn't surprise me if the SOELive attendees were given some advance signup, and the game open to the rest of the world a week after SOELive. It's a pretty low chance, I'll admit, but one that seems to strike the right note with me, somehow.
I guess we'll know in August.
Logic, my dear, merely enables one to be wrong with great authority.
Originally posted by Riposte.This The good part about such a short time period between us being shown and the game releasing is the hype wont wear off. Probably have pre-orders shortly after it's shown. Hype will still be really really strong, so lots of pre-orders to get access to the beta, etc.
SWTOR all over again.
Nah, Plenty knew SWTOR was going to be crap. The IP is what drove that hype, not the game itself. This time we'll have to see what the game actually is to see if the hype actually transition over into launch. Right now the Hype is about August 2nd and what is going to be announced.
So the IP here is not driving the hype. Yeah right.
It's not actually. Not for many. The fact that it's a Sandbox and MMORPG/TTH response to seeing what SOE has is driving the hype primarily I would say.
We knew about EQ Next for a long time. If IP was driving the hype, where was it a year ago?
As a programmer myself I was pretty impressed with the ideas and systems they came up with.
NPCs that understand the emotions you're conveying, react to those emotions and then remember how you treated them in the future?
I'm sorry but that's cool, imo. You're entitled to your opinion, but this is new stuff we haven't seen before in any games and a step in the right direction to make the world feel more alive and realistic.
I don't see that NPC's "understand the emotions you're conveying", and "remembering" isn't groundbreaking, it's just a more fine-grain notion of "faction". There may be a "mood" state in NPC's, but finite state machines existed since EQ 1. And lots of games have given you options to "threaten", "plead", or "entice".
It doesn't really seem to have anything to do with "stories" either.
What does seem potentially useful is two things:
a) non-programmers have a nice interface to create quests with multiple solutions
b) the quest text should be easily localized to different languages, since the tool largely consists of a small number of concepts such "I am feeling <current mood>, but if I got a <quest item > from <other NPC> I would be <new mood >".
I don't see that NPC's "understand the emotions you're conveying", and "remembering" isn't groundbreaking, it's just a more fine-grain notion of "faction". There may be a "mood" state in NPC's, but finite state machines existed since EQ 1. And lots of games have given you options to "threaten", "plead", or "entice".
It doesn't really seem to have anything to do with "stories" either.
What does seem potentially useful is two things:
a) non-programmers have a nice interface to create quests with multiple solutions
b) the quest text should be easily localized to different languages, since the tool largely consists of a small number of concepts such "I am feeling , but if I got a from I would be ".
Killing mobs or performing tasks to earn points to unlock the ability to get a quest to use a vendors shops is no where near the same as what the storybrick AI is going to bring to the game.
Think of it more like faction + mass effect style dialog choices + NPCs that change the way they act to you based on your faction and interactions. Also remembering it in the future.
It also has a lot to do with stories. In a sandbox you're making your own story. You can be a jerk, a thief, a valorous knight, a quiet kid, a romancing sweet talker, whatever.
Being able to interact and affect NPCs in a roleplaying way, and having them react to the role playing is a great tool for creating your own story for your character.
Originally posted by Iceman8235 I didn't make this post to flame SOE, but I've been gaming long enough to know that going from no information whatsoever to release in 5 months is optimistic. For that to happen, the plan they have would have to go perfectly from august 2nd to release day and anyone that's been around to watch a game develop from its infancy knows the plan almost never goes perfectly. Here's to hoping they prove me wrong and we're all playing a polished and revolutionary MMO by the end of the year.
You also have to understand the game went through an extreme overall about a year and a half ago. From a thenepark to a sandbox.
Sandbox means open world, non-linear gaming PERIOD!
Subscription Gaming, especially MMO gaming is a Cash grab bigger then the most P2W cash shop!
Bring Back Exploration and lengthy progression times. RPG's have always been about the Journey not the destination!!!
There's a high chance it's a total failure of a game and they're just throwing something out there hoping it sticks.
A game that stands on it's own doesn't need any hype, it will hype itself, Smedley has done nothing but hype this game.
Then there's the weird preview MMORPG and TTH got and they gave it rewards without anyone seeing it. You would think the first people you show the game would be your fans...why was this done in total secrecy?
Then there's the weird E3 preview that only let in a very few people.
And just the fact they released nothing about this game. They said it will be playable at SOE Live in 2 weeks...and they have shown nothing.
Altogether, extremely weird behavior for a gaming company.
There's a tiny bit of hope for me that this game will be amazing, but it's tiny. I'm not going to get hyped over something I know nothing about at all.
It sounds like you got into gaming about a month ago. Games are frequently shown behind closed doors during development before the public ever gets to see a screenshot or substantial game details. Often at conventions such as E3 with press only booths and NDAs in place. Since when has hype not been a part of releasing games, whether they're triple AAA titles or not?
EQ1 was a success. EQ2 was a success. Why would you assume failure for EQ3? I'm not saying it's going to be great or suck, but you are just trolling the game based on zero information. By that logic any game in development that has been announced with no other info, which sadly happens earlier and earlier out from release these days, are complete and total failures because YOU were left out of the loop.
Originally posted by Riposte.This The good part about such a short time period between us being shown and the game releasing is the hype wont wear off. Probably have pre-orders shortly after it's shown. Hype will still be really really strong, so lots of pre-orders to get access to the beta, etc.
SWTOR all over again.
Nah, Plenty knew SWTOR was going to be crap. The IP is what drove that hype, not the game itself. This time we'll have to see what the game actually is to see if the hype actually transition over into launch. Right now the Hype is about August 2nd and what is going to be announced.
So the IP here is not driving the hype. Yeah right.
It's not actually. Not for many. The fact that it's a Sandbox and MMORPG/TTH response to seeing what SOE has is driving the hype primarily I would say.
We knew about EQ Next for a long time. If IP was driving the hype, where was it a year ago?
I'm not sure what you are smoking, but I don't want to have anything to do with it.
You seem to be the only one here preaching on about the E3 reward and the undoubtable acclaims by Bill and the TTH guy. Its great that you put so much faith in two people's untarnished opinions. If that is what's driving you to be excited, great.
However, there are those of us who have been following the IP for over a decade, so that's means a tad bit more than two writer's helping their corporate buddy's push that Hype Train out the door. Where was it a year ago? Where it belonged: on the EQ fansites. Except, over there, it wasn't this hysterical, unrealistic gong show of people tripping over themselves whenever Smedley passed gas. We had information, we talked about it, and we waited until the next small tidbit came out.
There's a high chance it's a total failure of a game and they're just throwing something out there hoping it sticks.
A game that stands on it's own doesn't need any hype, it will hype itself, Smedley has done nothing but hype this game.
Then there's the weird preview MMORPG and TTH got and they gave it rewards without anyone seeing it.
Then there's the weird E3 preview that only left in a very few people.
And just the fact they released nothing about this game. They said it will be playable at SOE Live in 2 weeks...and they have shown nothing. Extremely weird.
There's a tiny bit of hope for me that this game will be amazing, but it's tiny. I'm not going to get hyped over something I know nothing about at all.
thank you for apparently being the only other sane person in regards to this upcoming mmo. who doesn't hope it will be fabulous? no one. who else has noticed that so far there has been nothing, zip, zero, zilch except word of mouth hype? apparently no one.
How much do they really need to market? Gaming communities are on the net. We talk on twitter, facebook and forums, IM, chat programs. We also twitch live stream games and look up info on new games like a junkie looking for a new fix. You build a great game we do 75% of the work for them. Only time you really need to market is when you are an unknown. Everquest is a brand name so strong you just need to attach a good game to it and it will sell. Make an ok game and it will still make money sadly. Guess we will have to wait and see.
There is little reason for a company to do much marketing anymore other than PAX, etc. Hop on a community website like MMORPG, Massively etc and do an interview. Bam. Marketing done. Gamers are the marketing people now. We use so much social media to advertise for companies we should be being paid. (Well I don't I have zero social media)
and to be clear i am not cynical, just skeptical. show me solid evidence and i will happily accept it. feed me on nothing but hype and im going to be rather skeptical.
Nothing but hype? I guess. We don't know specifics, but we do know that two respected sites have seen the game and they are blown away. You can be crazy conspirator and think they are bought and lying to us. Something we will know for ourselves on Aug 2nd or you can be more rational. You can think that EQN does indeed have something new and it's big. Now whether or not you're going to like that 'new thing' is another question. Hence why the hype and excitement should squarely be on what SOE has got to say and not the game.
you don't need a conspiracy where gullibility or merely bad taste are present.
"There are at least two kinds of games. One could be called finite, the other infinite. A finite game is played for the purpose of winning, an infinite game for the purpose of continuing play." Finite and Infinite Games, James Carse
I can see them doing a 3-4 month beta and then releasing between january / march of 2014 fairly easily.
It's already been announced that EQN will be in our hands this year. So launch will be anywhere between 2 August 2013 and 31 December 2013.
could you provide me a source for that? i have honestly not seen that remark anywhere and it would be good to ground at least part of this conversation in actual recorded facts.
"There are at least two kinds of games. One could be called finite, the other infinite. A finite game is played for the purpose of winning, an infinite game for the purpose of continuing play." Finite and Infinite Games, James Carse
I can see them doing a 3-4 month beta and then releasing between january / march of 2014 fairly easily.
It's already been announced that EQN will be in our hands this year. So launch will be anywhere between 2 August 2013 and 31 December 2013.
could you provide me a source for that? i have honestly not seen that remark anywhere and it would be good to ground at least part of this conversation in actual recorded facts.
At the bottom of his (Smedley) interview with Gamsutra, search for the word "hands". Note though, we have no idea what this means - could mean a full release.. Who knows.
"Players will get their hands on an actual release version of what we're doing late [this] year - and I don't mean a beta," says Smedley.
I can see them doing a 3-4 month beta and then releasing between january / march of 2014 fairly easily.
It's already been announced that EQN will be in our hands this year. So launch will be anywhere between 2 August 2013 and 31 December 2013.
could you provide me a source for that? i have honestly not seen that remark anywhere and it would be good to ground at least part of this conversation in actual recorded facts.
At the bottom of his (Smedley) interview with Gamsutra, search for the word "hands". Note though, we have no idea what this means - could mean a full release.. Who knows.
"Players will get their hands on an actual release version of what we're doing late [this] year - and I don't mean a beta," says Smedley.
I can see them doing a 3-4 month beta and then releasing between january / march of 2014 fairly easily.
It's already been announced that EQN will be in our hands this year. So launch will be anywhere between 2 August 2013 and 31 December 2013.
could you provide me a source for that? i have honestly not seen that remark anywhere and it would be good to ground at least part of this conversation in actual recorded facts.
At the bottom of his (Smedley) interview with Gamsutra, search for the word "hands". Note though, we have no idea what this means - could mean a full release.. Who knows.
"Players will get their hands on an actual release version of what we're doing late [this] year - and I don't mean a beta," says Smedley.
This was discussed not long ago, and with their black box being one of the most effective ever pulled off to date, if I was a betting man I would go for a shock and awe release, very close to after the annoucnment, open beta-esque affiar, after their EQ2 marketing/release 6 months in change game radicaly debarcle, all because of their eyes on the WOW release and its blitzkrieg of the market at the time.
It would be something that would appeal to someone like Smed, a small gesture at Blizzard, its always been about Blizzard and now Blizzard has frozen their project, if this was politics all this would make sense, but for some reason people dont appear to except inter gaming company politics even though in recent years the stories about inter game company nastiness would make many a cheap day time soapie blush and run for cover.
Originally posted by cheyane May be alpha or demo.
I had originally posted that but it sounded way too pessimistic and unrealistic so I removed it lol.
That'd be like saying "We're having Dinner soon, and I don't mean 30 minutes from now!" Then serving dinner 5 hours later.
It would just be a little silly.
However, he does say ""Players will get their hands on an actual release version of what we're doing late [this] year - and I don't mean a beta," says Smedley.
Originally posted by cheyane May be alpha or demo.
I had originally posted that but it sounded way too pessimistic and unrealistic so I removed it lol.
That'd be like saying "We're having Dinner soon, and I don't mean 30 minutes from now!" Then serving dinner 5 hours later.
It would just be a little silly.
However, he does say ""Players will get their hands on an actual release version of what we're doing late [this] year - and I don't mean a beta," says Smedley.
All sites where all blown away with Aion / SWTOR... I rather see and feel 1st hand as i wont bite into those 8.5 9.5 numbers for mmo's anymore
Its kinda strange that push or rush from now to 5 months and want evrything in that timeframe done. I also understand that if you have new inventions or drastical gameplay changes you dont want to let your competitors copy that stuff in their game (hello blizzard).
Iam optimistic but a realist also, i expect nothing and hope for the best, but history has shown us that no mmo can keep our attentions for more then 4 months.
Also Smedley isnt the 1st person i would thrust, i just hope whe can back up his big mouth for once and silence us
Originally posted by wr75 The reason for the secrecy is so that they can have a comfortable lead before Blizzard finds out and steals/copies everything.
Lol, why do you think Titan was put on hold around the same time that EQN was being touted as "The next big mmo"?
Probably because with current tech EQN will be same old same old and Blizzard did not want to release some boring crap like EQN will be and draw what they have from WoW.
Lads we have caught a big one, someone get the net.
Do not be angry that Blizzard can out market and produce then SOE. You mad bro? Blizzard watches and waits like the spider...SOE throws crap out and hopes it sticks. Not that Blizzard always wins, but WoW has been a beast by watching the market. Innovation is great and fun, but really what does SOE have to innovate with at the moment. Is there some great AI to make PvE awesome yet....no. Is there anything other than what is already out there, but in a new shiny wrapping for PvP...not really. Blizzard would have been stupid to release competition against itself with nothing new to be the big draw. SOW is hoping to get something going because they are way behind at the moment.
It's bigger than i thought, all hands on deck.
This thread was giving me quite the fit of chuckles, then this post brought the lawls...
For every minute you are angry , you lose 60 seconds of happiness."-Emerson
Comments
I've speculated about this elsewhere.
Since a modern beta test is essentially nothing more than an extended server stress test, SOE might feel that they have enough expertise with server and network configuration to be able to forgo any kind of external beta test. This serves the dual purposes of keeping the information from competitors AND spoiler sides until the game is launched.
So, it might be possible that SOE is going to attempt something unique, a dark release, where there are few prior details about the product other than its name, genre and some basic machine requirements. This would give the community a new game, SOE would start earning direct income from the game, and they would begin trying to leverage this on their competitors.
It wouldn't surprise me if the SOELive attendees were given some advance signup, and the game open to the rest of the world a week after SOELive. It's a pretty low chance, I'll admit, but one that seems to strike the right note with me, somehow.
I guess we'll know in August.
Logic, my dear, merely enables one to be wrong with great authority.
It's not actually. Not for many. The fact that it's a Sandbox and MMORPG/TTH response to seeing what SOE has is driving the hype primarily I would say.
We knew about EQ Next for a long time. If IP was driving the hype, where was it a year ago?
I don't see that NPC's "understand the emotions you're conveying", and "remembering" isn't groundbreaking, it's just a more fine-grain notion of "faction". There may be a "mood" state in NPC's, but finite state machines existed since EQ 1. And lots of games have given you options to "threaten", "plead", or "entice".
It doesn't really seem to have anything to do with "stories" either.
What does seem potentially useful is two things:
a) non-programmers have a nice interface to create quests with multiple solutions
b) the quest text should be easily localized to different languages, since the tool largely consists of a small number of concepts such "I am feeling <current mood>, but if I got a <quest item > from <other NPC> I would be <new mood >".
Killing mobs or performing tasks to earn points to unlock the ability to get a quest to use a vendors shops is no where near the same as what the storybrick AI is going to bring to the game.
Think of it more like faction + mass effect style dialog choices + NPCs that change the way they act to you based on your faction and interactions. Also remembering it in the future.
It also has a lot to do with stories. In a sandbox you're making your own story. You can be a jerk, a thief, a valorous knight, a quiet kid, a romancing sweet talker, whatever.
Being able to interact and affect NPCs in a roleplaying way, and having them react to the role playing is a great tool for creating your own story for your character.
Legends of Kesmai, UO, EQ, AO, DAoC, AC, SB, RO, SWG, EVE, EQ2, CoH, GW, VG:SOH, WAR, Aion, DF, CO, MO, DN, Tera, SWTOR, RO2, DP, GW2, PS2, BnS, NW, FF:XIV, ESO, EQ:NL
You also have to understand the game went through an extreme overall about a year and a half ago. From a thenepark to a sandbox.
Sandbox means open world, non-linear gaming PERIOD!
Subscription Gaming, especially MMO gaming is a Cash grab bigger then the most P2W cash shop!
Bring Back Exploration and lengthy progression times. RPG's have always been about the Journey not the destination!!!
What I am afraid of is they are pushing out too fast to compete with Wildstar and TESO. I'd rather wait another year for a polished product.
It sounds like you got into gaming about a month ago. Games are frequently shown behind closed doors during development before the public ever gets to see a screenshot or substantial game details. Often at conventions such as E3 with press only booths and NDAs in place. Since when has hype not been a part of releasing games, whether they're triple AAA titles or not?
EQ1 was a success. EQ2 was a success. Why would you assume failure for EQ3? I'm not saying it's going to be great or suck, but you are just trolling the game based on zero information. By that logic any game in development that has been announced with no other info, which sadly happens earlier and earlier out from release these days, are complete and total failures because YOU were left out of the loop.
I'm not sure what you are smoking, but I don't want to have anything to do with it.
You seem to be the only one here preaching on about the E3 reward and the undoubtable acclaims by Bill and the TTH guy. Its great that you put so much faith in two people's untarnished opinions. If that is what's driving you to be excited, great.
However, there are those of us who have been following the IP for over a decade, so that's means a tad bit more than two writer's helping their corporate buddy's push that Hype Train out the door. Where was it a year ago? Where it belonged: on the EQ fansites. Except, over there, it wasn't this hysterical, unrealistic gong show of people tripping over themselves whenever Smedley passed gas. We had information, we talked about it, and we waited until the next small tidbit came out.
There is little reason for a company to do much marketing anymore other than PAX, etc. Hop on a community website like MMORPG, Massively etc and do an interview. Bam. Marketing done. Gamers are the marketing people now. We use so much social media to advertise for companies we should be being paid. (Well I don't I have zero social media)
you don't need a conspiracy where gullibility or merely bad taste are present.
"There are at least two kinds of games.
One could be called finite, the other infinite.
A finite game is played for the purpose of winning,
an infinite game for the purpose of continuing play."
Finite and Infinite Games, James Carse
could you provide me a source for that? i have honestly not seen that remark anywhere and it would be good to ground at least part of this conversation in actual recorded facts.
"There are at least two kinds of games.
One could be called finite, the other infinite.
A finite game is played for the purpose of winning,
an infinite game for the purpose of continuing play."
Finite and Infinite Games, James Carse
At the bottom of his (Smedley) interview with Gamsutra, search for the word "hands". Note though, we have no idea what this means - could mean a full release.. Who knows.
"Players will get their hands on an actual release version of what we're doing late [this] year - and I don't mean a beta," says Smedley.
http://www.gamasutra.com/view/news/184805/MMO_devs_will_lose_the_fight_against_content_churn_says_SOEs_Smedley.php#.UQEy9Sf7J8E
That's what I was referring to, and it spells it out.
"Players will get their hands on an actual release version of what we're doing late [this] year - and I don't mean a beta,"
Actually, out of ALL the things the devs and John Smedley have said about EQN, this one has to be the most direct and to the point statement.
Legends of Kesmai, UO, EQ, AO, DAoC, AC, SB, RO, SWG, EVE, EQ2, CoH, GW, VG:SOH, WAR, Aion, DF, CO, MO, DN, Tera, SWTOR, RO2, DP, GW2, PS2, BnS, NW, FF:XIV, ESO, EQ:NL
This was discussed not long ago, and with their black box being one of the most effective ever pulled off to date, if I was a betting man I would go for a shock and awe release, very close to after the annoucnment, open beta-esque affiar, after their EQ2 marketing/release 6 months in change game radicaly debarcle, all because of their eyes on the WOW release and its blitzkrieg of the market at the time.
It would be something that would appeal to someone like Smed, a small gesture at Blizzard, its always been about Blizzard and now Blizzard has frozen their project, if this was politics all this would make sense, but for some reason people dont appear to except inter gaming company politics even though in recent years the stories about inter game company nastiness would make many a cheap day time soapie blush and run for cover.
I had originally posted that but it sounded way too pessimistic and unrealistic so I removed it lol.
That'd be like saying "We're having Dinner soon, and I don't mean 30 minutes from now!" Then serving dinner 5 hours later.
It would just be a little silly.
Legends of Kesmai, UO, EQ, AO, DAoC, AC, SB, RO, SWG, EVE, EQ2, CoH, GW, VG:SOH, WAR, Aion, DF, CO, MO, DN, Tera, SWTOR, RO2, DP, GW2, PS2, BnS, NW, FF:XIV, ESO, EQ:NL
However, he does say ""Players will get their hands on an actual release version of what we're doing late [this] year - and I don't mean a beta," says Smedley.
SWG, Eve, Planetside 2, EQN, Star Citizen
Ya. Exactly.
Legends of Kesmai, UO, EQ, AO, DAoC, AC, SB, RO, SWG, EVE, EQ2, CoH, GW, VG:SOH, WAR, Aion, DF, CO, MO, DN, Tera, SWTOR, RO2, DP, GW2, PS2, BnS, NW, FF:XIV, ESO, EQ:NL
From Brasse on Feb. 7th 2013:
Highly unlikely that EQN will launch in 2013. Smed said we'd have "something," but that could be one of a million facets.
I think some people are unaware of this tweet, or forgot. Anyway, there you go.
http://eq2wire.com/2013/02/12/eqnext-release-in-2013-unlikely/
woh woh. What's that?
who's khayotis?
when was this said?
cry cry!
SWG, Eve, Planetside 2, EQN, Star Citizen
All sites where all blown away with Aion / SWTOR...
I rather see and feel 1st hand as i wont bite into those 8.5 9.5 numbers for mmo's anymore
Its kinda strange that push or rush from now to 5 months and want evrything in that timeframe done.
I also understand that if you have new inventions or drastical gameplay changes you dont want to let your competitors copy that stuff in their game (hello blizzard).
Iam optimistic but a realist also, i expect nothing and hope for the best, but history has shown us that no mmo can keep our attentions for more then 4 months.
Also Smedley isnt the 1st person i would thrust, i just hope whe can back up his big mouth for once and silence us
I did an edit. It came out all messy.
Brasse is on the EQN team. She's the Community Manager. This tweet was a reply to Khayotix who asked what Smed meant about his message.
aw man this changes everything!
This should have it's own thread (maybe)
SWG, Eve, Planetside 2, EQN, Star Citizen
I just figured it was old news. This has been on the EQ fansites for months. Well, now you know.
This thread was giving me quite the fit of chuckles, then this post brought the lawls...
For every minute you are angry , you lose 60 seconds of happiness."-Emerson