Howdy, Stranger!
It looks like you're new here. If you want to get involved, click one of these buttons!
Quick Links
Religious and LGBT Guilds, Yay or Nay?
This discussion has been closed.
It looks like you're new here. If you want to get involved, click one of these buttons!
Comments
I think guilds whom run a charter and enforce common decency and freedom on personal matters would have a greater contribution than anything exclusive.
Why shield yourself off or try to create an environment with like minded ones. To me that sounds boring and won't get you much further as a person or in life. Tho I'd also assume that wouldn't be the easiest road to chose.
Ah well live and let live, I just don't see the need or benefit in it.
It's not so much that many of them think that they need to do this as you say.
It's more that most guilds have a voice chat and even in the ones they don't you are going to have, and it is what it is, some white folks (and you all make up the majority of gamers) who think they are funny by making jokes about people of color, homosexuals or any other group.
That's why many of those guilds exists is to enjoy the game and to get away from those, to them, hurtful "jokes" and judgements.
As far as the Christian (and now other religious) guilds, I don't agree that it's for those reasons above. They are exclusive, typically wanting to avoid the others in the above mentioned groups for a handful of reasons. There may be a tiny few that truly organize for gaming fellowship, but they aren't anywhere near the norm.
Those are my thoughts, anyway.
"Many nights, my friend... Many nights I've put a blade to your throat while you were sleeping. Glad I never killed you, Steve. You're alright..."
Chavez y Chavez
I am a born again Christian... I find my self staying away from Guilds in games because I don't want to be a part of the Adult related and/or kinds of Language you could find in Guilds... I've often thought about starting a Guild for other Christians just to give us a place where we can discuss the issues that concern us while gaming together... Has nothing to do with propaganda or anything else just about how I personally choose to spend my time and the types of Conversation I'm willing to be involved in.
Company Owner
MMO Interactive
I feel certain they would. The guilds I've seen though are not exclusive. Any guild that's exclusive for reasons other than game play is probably a bad idea. For instance, a hardcore raiders only guild with strict entrance requirements would be fine.
A post above mentioned "like minded people", and I think that's the point of a most of the guilds that advertise a preference. They want "like minded people". For a LBGT guild if that happens to be a hetero person who likes the people in the guild, then that hetero person would be a member.
The other thing I think it does is make sure that people have some idea of what they are getting into. I am non-religious. I would even go so far as to say anti-religious, so joining a guild full of like minded religious people probably wouldn't be a good fit. I'd know ahead of time to not bother joining. It saves everyone a bit of time.
I can not remember winning or losing a single debate on the internet.
I can't help but think there's a hint of irony in your post there.
As much as I might want to find like minded people and avoid the rest, you want to do the same. In the end it is only a matter of who is trying to portray themselves as a victim. Discrimination goes both ways: You might think I am a dirty infidel, and I might think you're just bat shit crazy. Or I don't want to hear your proselytizing and you might not hear me criticizing your faith. I am talking hypothetical of course.
Point is, games are the wrong place to bring up such things. I am just not that interested. And if you start opening up, you're just asking to be trolled. Don't do it.
I skate to where the puck is going to be, not where it has been -Wayne Gretzky
I think we agree ? People are far more tolerant of people who just blab about stuff over people who ...inflict their lifestyle on others. Personally I see a big difference between "my partner and I just adopted our first child and I'm so excited " and " hey guys you've been going on about XXXX for an hr now, would you mind giving it a rest I'm trying to enjoy killing these priests" <--ha!
The first example should really be able to fit into any guild....the second should probably find a guild that has other people who care about whatever xxxx happens to be.
i dont have a problem with them playing games. But i have found that LGBT usually dont make dramas about those topics in game, religious players tend to keep talking about it and i get fed up so i dont join their guilds with religious drama. But they have every right that i have to play the game.
People gather in guilds because of same interests.
If you should deny people community, then the game will fail.
I only say NAY to hardcore & grindmonger guilds, as they are a profanity to life itself!!!
I agree this is the kind of stuff that destroys gameplay, and destroys guilds.
the way I see it don't ask don't tell. If somebody has a friend and they want to keep that info to themselves then that is fine, but it has no place in out chat, or in guild chat, unless everybody in that guild is of a certain mindset.
These kind of discussions in our guild chat gets you benched from raid first, if it continues and folks complain your out.
ug.
That about sums up my feelings on the issue.
I normally am pretty firm about "leave the real world agendas out of the game please", but I can sympathize that there are always a few issues where restricting a real world attribute from the game feels like an agenda in itself.
So I say just leave me out of the decision. I don't intend to be a problem either way.
Roleplay sentric guilds like yours, where you are kicked if you dont act in a certain role within pre-defined boundries (in other words you must behave in a certain way imaginative or non-imaginative) are in no way different from the guild types discussed here.
Same reason why some guilds only let people who are over a specific age. So people can relate to others in their guild by having common interests.
Gosh .. we are talking about gaming guilds.
Why would you care how others organize their guilds?
Everyone has the right to pick their friends, and be in a guild with like-minded individuals who are fun to play with. I can totally understand Christians seeking a Christian friendly guild, or LGBT people seeking a LGBT friendly guild.
But seeking like-minded friends to play with can also easily turn into segregating all others based on some criteria that should have no in-game impact. If I start to feel like a Christian guild is formed so that Christians can exclude all others and play without them, then I don't see why I should give members of that guild the same respect I normally give to all fellow players I encounter while playing.
I believe people have to the right to include or exclude whoever they want. Sadly, this is not the civilized world I would hope it would be, where everyone just accepts each other regardless. Less hatred, more understanding, would be nice. However, until we reach actual civilization, I think people have the aforementioned right. Most MMO's already have religion in them, so why not have more? Sex is something everything does, so that is there too. People will always judge others, that is just going to happen because humans fear each other. It would be really nice if there was a place where everyone could go to be themselves, for some it is hating others, for some it is loving others.
Common interests? There is only one interest. (Unless you come across a homsexual, catholic, and liberal guild).
When people group themselves(segregate) in this way and claim they are sharing common interests. Other than what they prefer to fuck, what god they follow and if they are right wing, what interest do they have that that they can't share with people who arn't gay, who arn't catholic and who arn't democratic?
It's not like a brony's only guild. These subjects do touch people a bit more deeply than that.
TBH, I don't actually care (just find it little odd) if they create these guilds and talk about that stuff in private. It's when it brought up in public chats. Luckily, they do include an ignore button.
I'm a hetrosexual man, I would never think I couldn't share common interests with a homosexual just because of his sexual orientation.
No problem at all with it. Same as with people who advertise they are a guild of hard core raiders, pvp fanatics, server first specialists or stoners just looking for a good time.
Let people associate for the reasons they like, we are all free to join or ignore them as we please.
"True friends stab you in the front." | Oscar Wilde
"I need to finish" - Christian Wolff: The Accountant
Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing New Worlds atm
Fools find no pleasure in understanding but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV
Don't just play games, inhabit virtual worlds™
"This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon
Generally being anti something is a lot harder to pull off than being for something. Negativity in general tends to be more problematic, as its very easy to become extremely disrespectful when you start from a negative position, so on those grounds, I would say that the short answer is probably yes. The long answer is that it could be done, but you'd likely spend more time avoiding problems than what it would be worth given that most people play games to relax and not to focus on real life social commentary. That being said, it shoud be allowed just as much as the pro LGBT guilds should be; after all, there is always a chance that enough people want to make it happen that it would live, and they deserve their right to do so as long as they keep problems with others to a minimum.
-----------------
On the topic as a whole, I can understand the impulse for themed guilds even though I never have felt the need personally. Even if you don't discuss real life issues, its a lot more pleasant to be able to make passing comments that reflect your point of view without getting into massive arguments and/or having to screen comments to avoid said arguments.
I think such guilds make sense. After all, ideally, you get to know the people a bit and get to like them, and game together every now and then. And in MMORPGs, if you are in voice chat, you sometimes also talk about this and that.
If I'd meet there a hardcore nazi, I'd either demand that the person leaves the guild or I'd quit it myself. Same if someone expresses hatred towards gays or whatever. Not because I'm gay, but because I strongly believe that everybody has the right to become happy, and do everything necessary to reach that aim, as long as nobody gets hurt.
If I'd meet there a strongly religious person, I wouldn't really care about it. Everybody has his/her own beliefs or the lack thereof. If I'd be in a guild where about everybody would be of the same religion and constantly talk about it, I'd probably get annoyed, and leave.
I mean, there've been guilds for people of a certain age (30+ for example), there've been guilds just for women. So why restrict people only to certain themes?
Let's play Fallen Earth (blind, 300 episodes)
Let's play Guild Wars 2 (blind, 45 episodes)
All the example guilds you mentioned are game releated. Actually, the "Stoners looking for a good time" is worded rather ambiguously.
I find it funny how many people replied with "keep their personal stuff out of the mix" or "leave it at the door" or ... well, there are lots of responses and I'm sure you get the idea.
The idea of an MMO is to meet others, to become friends and have fun playing. If you are told to keep a part of your life ... silent ... then doesn't that defeat the purpose of playing an MMO? I would hope that those I'm playing with like me for who I am not who they have created some image of me based on my nifty avatar/character on the screen - trust me, I don't look like no wizard in real life.
The fact is, guilds that cater to a specific type of player, not play style, can at times give a person some others where their version of "normal" isn't going to be ignored or attacked. Simply reading over the honest replies here proves that point when you think about some gay or lesbian person who wants to chat about their boyfriend or girlfriend ... because we all like to talk about those we love to those we are friends with right?
Religion is yet another touchy thing especially as games move from one country to mixing in many others and our religious beliefs are just as personal as our discussions about our wife or husbands. We want to share and be friendly.
This is the thing. Can't straight people have common interests with lesbian/gay/bi/trans person? Sex is that important to someone that they are not willing to share common interests.
EDIT: Unless straight people are allowed to join, just be warned it might get pretty gay in guild chat.
I tend to frown upon things like this. Reason being is that honestly, if you allow these types of guilds to form from real life issues, then you have to allow them all. And who wants to deal with intolerance in a vehicle for escapism when you just finished dealing with it in real life. I mean it's one thing to form guilds based on gaming schedules, languages or time zones. You know things that could change at a moments notice. But to based them on things of a more permanent basis like race, religion and sexual orientation is down right discriminatory! Even if the guilds are suppose to serve as safe havens for a particular group.
For me the whole freakin game is suppose to serve as a safe haven for all its players and to further segregate its population is doing a great disservice to the spirit of mmorpgs. Curbing or filtering bad behavior is one thing, and we all should be doing it, but allowing lines to be drawn from deep rooted issues is not the answer. No matter how noble it starts out as.
"Small minds talk about people, average minds talk about events, great minds talk about ideas."