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Religious and LGBT Guilds, Yay or Nay?
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Wrong, and its exactly the problem!!
How can you say any guild right now is ALL WHITE OR ALL HETERO? How can you say that for sure, because the odds are that there is a mix of races and genders, and also some gays Im sure.
So you are wrong, the problem is people like you assuming everything is white and hetero.
Look, its real simple, you either give everyone the same respect and allow them to congregate by whatever group they want too, or you don't allow anyone to congregate.
Anything less is racism, sexism or phobia. Period!
Uhh they don't? Most GLBT guilds have lore appropriate names. On Neverwinter it was Feyguard. On FFIV its Noctis Crystallum. How are those even close to 'Gay Pride'? And even if they were, so what? Noone should be ashamed of the way they were born.
Lots of people in my guild are husband / wife combos. Should I be telling them to keep it private?
If it draws attention from the wrong people then it further proves my point. There are losers out there who are full of hatred towards the LGBT community, which is why they are justified in seeking a sanctum from those aholes while they play videogames in their downtime.
A guilt trip isn't going to work on me. I have nothing against gay people.
But what we don't allow is sexual discussions in our guild, this includes sexual orientation. If you want tell people you're gay that's fine, no one will judge you for it, but if you want to cry wolf about the fact you're gay and think you need any form of special treatment, or special group, then that's not ok, everyone is an equal.
What I do think should be possible, is that people with disabilities come together in a guild, there was a guild with deaf people once, I think that's awesome. They have a disability, they can relate, and they are not trying to cause drama, they are only grouped to support each other.
But if your goal is to be like everyone else, and to be treated like everyone else, then don't blame everyone else if you deliberately choose to distance yourself from everyone else. The only thing you're doing is knowingly causing drama, which is a good way to kill your guild and a great way for people to be less tolerant towards you instead of more.
You are not getting it.
In many cases it has nothign to do with sexual discussion. We dont' have sexual discussions in the guilds I belong to and they are heterosexual for the most part.
It does have to do with people saying things like "going to meet my wife" when they are a woman or of someone says "my boyfriend and I..." when they are a man, and then receiving ridicule, derision, being excluded etc.
gay/lesbian/religious guilds DO allow others in. They just want people to know that certain belief systems are accepted and celebrated.
If I was religious and was going to a nieces communion and I say just as much I don't want to have some assh*les start grilling me on religion and why it's this and that.
Especially when, though not being a believer at all, I know so many amazing people of faith who do not represent some of the negative stereotypes that are out there.
Godfred's Tomb Trailer: https://youtu.be/-nsXGddj_4w
Original Skyrim: https://www.nexusmods.com/skyrim/mods/109547
Serph toze kindly has started a walk-through. https://youtu.be/UIelCK-lldo
What does celebreating beliefs have to do with MMO. Should we have christian and muslim guilds too?
The best way for gay people to be accepted like everyone is to act like everyone else, that means joining a regular guild..and if certain people are intolerant towards you then tell an officer or a GM.
What is not going to help you get accepted is deliberately distancing yourself from the community into guilds based on sexual orientation, that only leaves you more vulnerable to ridicule, and frankly that's what some are looking for, some people look for drama on purpose.
It doesn't bother me.
As far as the chat channels go, have you seen some of the racists Comments and Smut being said? A little god is maybe what it needs. LOL
This is why you are part of the problem.
Interestingly enough, at my employer there are Employee Networking groups that cover a wide variety of special interests including:
Employees with disabilities
Latino/Hispanic
Asian/Pacific Islanders
African American
Early Career professionals
LGBT
Admin Professionals
Veterans
Women
Junior Women
Working Families
Public speaking
While we all strive to further the goals of the business, people definitely split off into groups which advocate certain positions and causes. They are all inclusive and in fact we are encouraged to join and support groups we're not necessarily a target member for, but fact remains people enjoy associating based on perceived common interest.
So it is not surprising they want to do the same while gaming, it makes them feel comfortable and helps people understand the focus and motivations of the people who are part of them.
EVE is famous for having very specialized corporations that focus on things such as roleplaying, finance, piracy, scamming, drug running (yes, this is true) mission running, banking etc. There are even a couple of religious based ones as well.
"True friends stab you in the front." | Oscar Wilde
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Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing New Worlds atm
Fools find no pleasure in understanding but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV
Don't just play games, inhabit virtual worlds™
"This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon
A guild that says "Gay only" is probably not allowed in Most MMOs, which is why you are highly unlikely to see such a restriction.
What you will see and what you currently do see is "gay friendly" guilds.
Facts. Use 'em. They help move discussion - and thinking - forward.
There isn't a "right" or "wrong" way to play, if you want to use a screwdriver to put nails into wood, have at it, simply don't complain when the guy next to you with the hammer is doing it much better and easier. - Allein
"Graphics are often supplied by Engines that (some) MMORPG's are built in" - Spuffyre
this.
Looking forward to uhh.....
playing: Civ 5, Tony Hawk Pro Skater HD
That was an amazing response. Not only did you show a complete inability to comprehend anything said in this thread so far, but you've even completely misinterpreted the very post that you quoted and have sitting right in front of you.
A gem of a post, Adalwulff! Looking forward to your next one.
There isn't a "right" or "wrong" way to play, if you want to use a screwdriver to put nails into wood, have at it, simply don't complain when the guy next to you with the hammer is doing it much better and easier. - Allein
"Graphics are often supplied by Engines that (some) MMORPG's are built in" - Spuffyre
I think its great that players can find these niche guilds to be a part of, but there comes a point where certain guilds take it a step too far, and start discriminating against non-gay/religious/ethnic groups of people.
I believe in the freedom of choice though, and wish people could just live their lives without trying to push an agenda or their ideals on other people.
We get it... Youre Gay/Religious/Black/White/Hispanic/etc.. Now move on with your life and get off that soapbox. No one cares about your lifestyle choices anymore.
"The problem with quotes from the Internet is that it's almost impossible to validate their authenticity." - Abraham Lincoln
+1. Freedom of association and all that. If you want to put together a guild of snow-worshipping siberian goat farmers, more power to you.
From a personal standpoint, I think it's this type of thing that contributes to continuing tensions in the world. The sooner we stop labelling ourselves as something, the sooner the boundaries and stigmas disappear. The world has gone from fighting to abolish segregation to segregating themselves by choice and I don't see it as a good thing. That being said, there are other ways of looking at it and if you feel more comfortable with really really really likeminded people, go for it.
The religious thing always amuses me, nothing like a group of "devout <whatever>" playing an online game that (usually) encourages the worship of pagan religions (most Fantasy type games do).
"Id rather work on something with great potential than on fulfilling a promise of mediocrity."
- Raph Koster
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Currently Playing: ESO
I never even realized this could ever come up as an issue to begin with. I never really introduce my sexual orientation to anyone in game as I never found a need to. Actually I can't really figure out any point in time I would, unless someone specifically asked for what ever reason. That is just me though. It's also the same way I am in real life too.
However, this does not mean I think there is anything wrong with LGBT guilds, majority I have seen allow anyone into the guild, as long as they are friendly and not looking to cause issue.
Also people need to realize, it is a social game. Why should people keep their lives out of a game that includes social elements? If you don't like to see these things, maybe you should be playing a single player game XD.
As for religion, same thing. As long as they are not going around trying to change people, I don't see any problem with it.
This is how things work in real life society, why would this not exist in a game that includes .... society. The people playing the game are the same people that exist in real life, so really, it should be expected.
Yes people should be able to associate and form whatever groups they want too, snow worshipping goat herders would be awesome!
BUT, I disagree with your premise that this is what makes people hate each other. This kind of thinking has to go!
What we need is more respect for our individual choices. Our media and our govt needs to push this idea, instead of criminalizing people who don't conform to the mantra "we are all the same". Because we are not all the same!
Its all about respect, and it has to go for everyone, or it wont work.
Wrong, and its exactly the problem!!
How can you say any guild right now is ALL WHITE OR ALL HETERO? How can you say that for sure, because the odds are that there is a mix of races and genders, and also some gays Im sure.
So you are wrong, the problem is people like you assuming everything is white and hetero.
Look, its real simple, you either give everyone the same respect and allow them to congregate by whatever group they want too, or you don't allow anyone to congregate.
Anything less is racism, sexism or phobia. Period!
I didn't say all hetero. I said 'mostly'. The odds that a guild will be composed mostly of hetero males by chance is very high. The odds that a guild will be composed of non-hetero mix of males and females is very low. I would say, "Zero", but there's always a chance it could happen. Well, at least in the U.S. Can't really speak for even Western Europe.
So no, I'm not wrong. Do a little research on your own instead of whatever you used in place of research.
Also, leave race out of the discussion. Gamers for the most part are non-racial, unless the race includes some sort of stat bonus.
I can not remember winning or losing a single debate on the internet.
Not me, total racist. I HATE Elves beyond any stat bonus. End of story. With their "high and mighty", "we are better than the humans", "we could fix the dying world, but wont".....stupid pointy ears.......
hehe,
As long as religious groups are not spreading around crazy religious dogma, I could care less. There is zero valid, logical reason that is not associated with bigotry or religion that would pertain to having an issue with an LBGT guild, so don't see why not either.
Pretty much, I don't see a problem with either. If they mind their business, I don't see why other people can't mind theirs.
They exist because there are guilds out there that will kick you from their gaming community if you are gay. There are guilds that use homophobic slurs or racial ones or religious ones. Some people don't want to deal with that crap or associate with others that are like that. It's really not that hard to understand. I guess maybe it might be hard for someone that has never had to deal with being a minority in a community. Lack of empathy is the major problem for people having an objection.
For the record most LGBTQ communities are also + ally. Meaning they are about inclusion, not exclusion. Many of the religious ones are the same way. People just don't want to deal with bigots. Imagine that.
Yup them too, all those Vulcans are "space elves" off topic: I find it rather a let down when one realizes there is very little that could actually be considered new an unique IP, when it comes to media. maybe it speaks to the masses and how they generally stand against what they don't know or understand. May favorite example is to break down the Star Wars IP, as not Science Fiction, but as fantasy. Just because the sword glows and the blaster doesn't shoot arrows.....
I wouldn't disagree that there are people looking for drama. You find those people in all walks of life. Sometimes they are the people who at one point indulged in a certain thing and then they suddenly "found religion" and then they go on their witchhunts.
Juding a whole group by the few bad people in that group isn't really the way to go.
As far as "celebrating beliefs" don't take that too literally. More like "hey guys, I won't be in the guild events for the next few weeks because I'm getting married" and it's a same sex marriage. Or
"hey guys, I won't be in guild events for the next few weeks because I"m taking a religous retreat";
"where";
"At xyz religious camp"; oh I know that place, spent a week there a few years ago"
Though I don't know everything about my guild members (in any guild I've been in) I can say that eventually, over the years, you get to know who is married, who used to be married, who doesn't drink, who likes sky diving, etc. This stuff comes up in conversation all the time. Being able to have this stuff come up and not be judged or ridiculed is kind of important don't you think?
Your statment about people not calling attention to themselves is more about you. You assume that these guilds are distnacing themselves from the community but that's not true at all. they group with and interact with the rest of the community just fine. They just are more accpeting of their members should things come up in conversation.
How many times have you mentioned, just briefly in passing a significant other in guild chat "oh, wife's home got to go" or "oh, my husband just made dinner" and probably thought nothing of it. Now imagine you letting that drop and suddenly you are a pariah.
Godfred's Tomb Trailer: https://youtu.be/-nsXGddj_4w
Original Skyrim: https://www.nexusmods.com/skyrim/mods/109547
Serph toze kindly has started a walk-through. https://youtu.be/UIelCK-lldo
Except Bruce Willis doesn't cast any magic spells. Brando just thinks he can. Rambo walks the line, but again no casting of spells.
Enough of the thread-jack though
I think it is more of "I have to deal with X bigot bastard all day busting my belief of orientation". I want to play a game to get away form that, and by joining a guild with "like-minds", I keep that to a minimum.
Mostly though the question should be, "Is that LGBT, Jesus Freak, Meatatarian, FSM worshiping, guild hurting me?" I suspect the answer is, "Hell NO!". If they are, then Block/Ignore/Report.
Agree.
My jaw hit the floor today when I saw it was still up. There is a warning I think no later than page 2, yet here we are on like 20. I don't know weather to be amazed or let down.
Hehe