As mentioned before there are already several games that have police to counter the Gankers and Bandits.
Age is Wushu is one.
APB the entire game is based on cops on robbers set up. City of Heroes / City of Villains was also based on Good guys fighting bad guys.
The real reason there are not more games that feature police is because police are kind on anachronism. Police are really a modern concept that started in the early 1700s. Having police in game that takes place in the dark ages would be like having King Arthur show up at the UN. Its' an anachronism, something that doesn't belong.
The dark ages was really a brutish age of barbarians and lawlessness. Rule of Law was often carried out ad-hoc in an almost vigilante style. Eye for an eye, cut off the hand of a thief, burned at the stake for witchcraft, scarlet letters for adultery, stocks for public drunkenness, etc. These were punishments for city criminals. In the open wilderness it truly was the law of the jungle. Kill or be killed as road bandits and pirates often got away with murder. The English King did set up a Sheriff and Constable system around the time of the Magnacarta but that was more about enforcing the authority of the King than anything else. The Sheriffs certainly weren't the good guys either. See Robin hood vs the Sheriff of Nottingham. Medieval Kings were little more than petty tyrants.
1st.victims dont really die in mmos either,they dont go to hospital for months or get whatever therapy.
That's a nice side step but you didn't answer the question. In a world where your avatar is disposable how will you keep criminal from running rampant? How do you keep people from exploiting the grey area so much that the game becomes un-playable?
Your excuse above doesn't fly either, because I don't know about you but I have way more going in my life then games. So what time I do get to play is precious to me.
how to keep criminals from running rampart.
Police radio :24:42:42 Minsc . lvl 5 . human . ranger . Guild: Berzerkers attacked XxImomyournoob666xX lvl 45 . undead . rogue . guild : STuFNoObLoL area Marren Till. coords 442.442. [other people in the same zone : list ]
thats the place to start for example,in game instant messages.
So you are hoping there is someone in the area strong enough to do anything, hope that there is someone in the area that cares enough to risk themselves. Hope is not plan.
having consensual pvp is a much simpler, and more effective solution.
True, but the problem is, they don't want consensual PvP because then they won't have anyone to gank, therefore, they have to force it on everyone, but if they do that, all of the non-PvP or casual PvP people leave the game so they have to pretend they're cracking down on the worst offenders, without actually doing anything that will stop them from having their ganktastic fun.
Now personally, I'd never play a PvP-centric game at all, but if I did, I'd expect to be able to opt out of it entirely. If I couldn't do that, I'd never play at all.
having consensual pvp is a much simpler, and more effective solution.
True, but the problem is, they don't want consensual PvP because then they won't have anyone to gank, therefore, they have to force it on everyone, but if they do that, all of the non-PvP or casual PvP people leave the game so they have to pretend they're cracking down on the worst offenders, without actually doing anything that will stop them from having their ganktastic fun.
Now personally, I'd never play a PvP-centric game at all, but if I did, I'd expect to be able to opt out of it entirely. If I couldn't do that, I'd never play at all.
Yeah .. but it is a fool's errand for them.
1) Devs clearly want the consensual pvpers as customers, so there are games with consensual pvp.
2) No one can force another play to play a game. Hence, none of the people who don't like forced pvp needs to participate.
At the end of the day, they can scream at the top of their lungs, and there is nothing they can do to me in games i play.
having consensual pvp is a much simpler, and more effective solution.
True, but the problem is, they don't want consensual PvP because then they won't have anyone to gank, therefore, they have to force it on everyone, but if they do that, all of the non-PvP or casual PvP people leave the game so they have to pretend they're cracking down on the worst offenders, without actually doing anything that will stop them from having their ganktastic fun.
Now personally, I'd never play a PvP-centric game at all, but if I did, I'd expect to be able to opt out of it entirely. If I couldn't do that, I'd never play at all.
Yeah .. but it is a fool's errand for them.
1) Devs clearly want the consensual pvpers as customers, so there are games with consensual pvp.
2) No one can force another play to play a game. Hence, none of the people who don't like forced pvp needs to participate.
At the end of the day, they can scream at the top of their lungs, and there is nothing they can do to me in games i play.
Who cares what you are playing...
You said it yourself, no one can forcé another player to play a game. So why are you whining that you got "ganked" if you choose to play a open world pvp full loot mmorpg?
having consensual pvp is a much simpler, and more effective solution.
True, but the problem is, they don't want consensual PvP because then they won't have anyone to gank, therefore, they have to force it on everyone, but if they do that, all of the non-PvP or casual PvP people leave the game so they have to pretend they're cracking down on the worst offenders, without actually doing anything that will stop them from having their ganktastic fun.
Now personally, I'd never play a PvP-centric game at all, but if I did, I'd expect to be able to opt out of it entirely. If I couldn't do that, I'd never play at all.
Yeah .. but it is a fool's errand for them.
1) Devs clearly want the consensual pvpers as customers, so there are games with consensual pvp.
2) No one can force another play to play a game. Hence, none of the people who don't like forced pvp needs to participate.
At the end of the day, they can scream at the top of their lungs, and there is nothing they can do to me in games i play.
Who cares what you are playing...
You said it yourself, no one can forcé another player to play a game. So why are you whining that you got "ganked" if you choose to play a open world pvp full loot mmorpg?
Who said i am whining about anything? I just pointed out i don't have to whine since i can ignore all the open world pvp full loot game.
And at the same time, point out that those who like full loot pvp probably don't have many to play with, except each other.
Why? Because most players don't whine .. they vote with their feet.
And i thought you are the one who is whining .... no one likes ffa pvp ... cry cry.
The real reason there are not more games that feature police is because police are kind on anachronism. Police are really a modern concept that started in the early 1700s. Having police in game that takes place in the dark ages would be like having King Arthur show up at the UN. Its' an anachronism, something that doesn't belong.
(...)
LOL, so you are suggesting that pure PvE MMORPGs should never exist, because it is out of place. Got ya.
Everything should be Game of Thrones basically with a few changes,.
True, but the problem is, they don't want consensual PvP because then they won't have anyone to gank, therefore, they have to force it on everyone, but if they do that, all of the non-PvP or casual PvP people leave the game so they have to pretend they're cracking down on the worst offenders, without actually doing anything that will stop them from having their ganktastic fun.
Now personally, I'd never play a PvP-centric game at all, but if I did, I'd expect to be able to opt out of it entirely. If I couldn't do that, I'd never play at all.
Yeah .. but it is a fool's errand for them.
1) Devs clearly want the consensual pvpers as customers, so there are games with consensual pvp.
2) No one can force another play to play a game. Hence, none of the people who don't like forced pvp needs to participate.
At the end of the day, they can scream at the top of their lungs, and there is nothing they can do to me in games i play.
Who cares what you are playing...
You said it yourself, no one can forcé another player to play a game. So why are you whining that you got "ganked" if you choose to play a open world pvp full loot mmorpg?
Most people would never play an open world PvP full loot MMORPG. This is a discussion about the possibility of police in such a game. I'd never actually play it and very few ever would. I don't ever get ganked because I don't ever play PvP. That doesn't mean I can't have opinions, and in an open forum, I am free to express them.
Most people would never play an open world PvP full loot MMORPG. This is a discussion about the possibility of police in such a game. I'd never actually play it and very few ever would. I don't ever get ganked because I don't ever play PvP. That doesn't mean I can't have opinions, and in an open forum, I am free to express them.
They have a double standard.
If they are whining about lack of games they like, it is ok.
If others dare to express a different preferences ... then you are committing heresy.
This brings to mind the social experimentation by Zimbardo, the Stanford prison experiment. If this thread is about actually giving peers authority over others, then this is just a terrible idea and that experiment proved it and has been amongst the most controversial social experiments.
Have you ever seen police in real life? I don't need something like that spoiling my experience in a game. Real life is already unfair enough, we can at least try to keep the MMO world balanced otherwise I would of just been a police officer in real life. No player should be able to maintain an amount of authority over others. Another way for the "elite players" in a game to control the environment over others.
This brings to mind the social experimentation by Zimbardo, the Stanford prison experiment. If this thread is about actually giving peers authority over others is just a terrible idea and that experiment proved it and has been amongst the most controversial social experiments.
Have you ever seen police in real life? I don't need something like that spoiling my experience in a game. Real life is already unfair enough, we can at least try to keep the MMO world balanced otherwise I would of just been a police officer in real life. No player should be able to maintain an amount of authority over others. Another way for the "elite players" in a game to control the environment over others.
The lucky thing is that this is just talk.
No one can force others to play an open world pvp game.
I voted other. I feel that the players that are PAYING to play a game with OW/PvP should enforce the rules THEY want. In EvE if you want to secure an area of 0.0 I don't need NPC sentries there. Besides, AI controlled police is either overwhelming (see:Concord) or like every other bot in a game, exploitable...see zap towers in DF1.
I don't have a problem with Concorde, bc they were in the game when I joined, so I never played EvE without them being there. I also know that they only provide consequence, not actually preventing anything. In that sense, they are like real police. If I call the cops right now bc someone is breaking in my house, they will get there in x amount of time. Many different outcomes can happen.
As a responsible gun owner, I provide my security for my family and me. I don't walk around with a gun, but in my state I am entitled to own a weapon for self defense. So as this relates to games I play, my guild/corp mates are my personal police. If someone is mining/gathering and they get attacked...we would stop what we are doing, and provide a response. This seems logical to me.
Should the AI/NPC's do that for us? I guess so, in context to the MECHANICS of that particular game. I recall non guilded players in DF1 who were friends with guilded ones attacking and killing nubs in cities bc the game mechanics were easily exploited.
So, should police exist? I say no, because that's my responsibility to my brothers/sisters in game. I don't really need the AI to do that for me.
Playing: BF4/BF:Hardline, Subnautica 7 days to die Hiatus: EvE Waiting on: World of Darkness(sigh) Interested in: better games in general
for the life of me, I cant even think what OWPvP games the OP has ever played. in every single one of them I have tried,the existance of PKKers (player killers' killers) has been prevalent, both in isolation and in the form of organized guilds.
Actually I'd say that during the levelling process they are even more prevalent than PKers and the ratio doesnt even come close to balanced till endgame.
one too many times I have founnd myself going "red" in a game I played, and after 5 minuts of PvPing in an area of my level, some white knight double my level would come and hunt me down.
makes you wonder why the hell people cries all day long about OWPvP, when it usually is a lot more of an uphill battle for those of us that want to indulge in fair and square antagonizing.
for the life of me, I cant even think what OWPvP games the OP has ever played. in every single one of them I have tried,the existance of PKKers (player killers' killers) has been prevalent, both in isolation and in the form of organized guilds.
Actually I'd say that during the levelling process they are even more prevalent than PKers and the ratio doesnt even come close to balanced till endgame.
one too many times I have founnd myself going "red" in a game I played, and after 5 minuts of PvPing in an area of my level, some white knight double my level would come and hunt me down.
makes you wonder why the hell people cries all day long about OWPvP, when it usually is a lot more of an uphill battle for those of us that want to indulge in fair and square antagonizing.
Really you are going the play the "I was red the whole time" card. Leveling as a red, lol, who are you trying to kid.
1st.victims dont really die in mmos either,they dont go to hospital for months or get whatever therapy.
That's a nice side step but you didn't answer the question. In a world where your avatar is disposable how will you keep criminal from running rampant? How do you keep people from exploiting the grey area so much that the game becomes un-playable?
Your excuse above doesn't fly either, because I don't know about you but I have way more going in my life then games. So what time I do get to play is precious to me.
how to keep criminals from running rampart.
Police radio :24:42:42 Minsc . lvl 5 . human . ranger . Guild: Berzerkers attacked XxImomyournoob666xX lvl 45 . undead . rogue . guild : STuFNoObLoL area Marren Till. coords 442.442. [other people in the same zone : list ]
thats the place to start for example,in game instant messages.
So you are hoping there is someone in the area strong enough to do anything, hope that there is someone in the area that cares enough to risk themselves. Hope is not plan.
No this is not for the hopeless people.
This is for the people will join the fight even when theres no hope.
So, did ESO have a successful launch? Yes, yes it did.By Ryan Getchell on April 02, 2014. **On the radar: http://www.cyberpunk.net/ **
So is this to be a just a RPing activity for PvPers (ie "cops and robbers") or is this system supposed to act as an incentive for non-PvPers to join the game?
If this is meant to attract the non-PvPers then the system needs to be seriously effective in discouraging most non-consensual PvP or it is nothing more than trying to attract vegeterians to your restaurant by praising the quality of the meat you serve.
So is this to be a just a RPing activity for PvPers (ie "cops and robbers") or is this system supposed to act as an incentive for non-PvPers to join the game?
If this is meant to attract the non-PvPers then the system needs to be seriously effective in discouraging most non-consensual PvP or it is nothing more than trying to attract vegeterians to your restaurant by praising the quality of the meat you serve.
RP is really a whole different can of worms. My approach to good RP is "I act as though I am what my character is". In my case of RPing a vigilante, it's less "cops and robbers" and more "ninjas and pirates". Again, that's just me. Golden rule of RP #2: never negate.
As far as avoiding PvP: this is relatively simple in the game I play, as it isn't hard to find an unoccupied corner of space and peace-ably do one's thing (or at least do one's thing in a PvE sort of way). This has more to do with the three-dimensionality of space than any sort of invisible barrier or rule.
"The simple is the seal of the true and beauty is the splendor of truth" -Subrahmanyan Chandrasekhar Authored 139 missions in VendettaOnline and 6 tracks in Distance
So is this to be a just a RPing activity for PvPers (ie "cops and robbers") or is this system supposed to act as an incentive for non-PvPers to join the game?
If this is meant to attract the non-PvPers then the system needs to be seriously effective in discouraging most non-consensual PvP or it is nothing more than trying to attract vegeterians to your restaurant by praising the quality of the meat you serve.
I don't think you can attract non-PvPers with any sort of forced ow pvp system. They have plenty of other games to choose from. It is a lost cause.
This is getting ridiculous... Play Wushu, player constables (cops). Everyday I see two or three threads that say "I wish....I never..." and we been doing those exact things months in Wushu now.
Hell there's a saying with a group of people in my guild. "WE ARE THE LAW". This is a major reason Wushu is a civil FFA world
I agree Bcbully it's getting ridiculous, it's like these people are on this site but not actually reading what's going on in the MMO world.
Everything the OP is asking for is already out there and it's the best system bar none.
Comments
You live in Sicily ?
So, did ESO have a successful launch? Yes, yes it did.By Ryan Getchell on April 02, 2014.
**On the radar: http://www.cyberpunk.net/ **
As mentioned before there are already several games that have police to counter the Gankers and Bandits.
Age is Wushu is one.
APB the entire game is based on cops on robbers set up. City of Heroes / City of Villains was also based on Good guys fighting bad guys.
The real reason there are not more games that feature police is because police are kind on anachronism. Police are really a modern concept that started in the early 1700s. Having police in game that takes place in the dark ages would be like having King Arthur show up at the UN. Its' an anachronism, something that doesn't belong.
The dark ages was really a brutish age of barbarians and lawlessness. Rule of Law was often carried out ad-hoc in an almost vigilante style. Eye for an eye, cut off the hand of a thief, burned at the stake for witchcraft, scarlet letters for adultery, stocks for public drunkenness, etc. These were punishments for city criminals. In the open wilderness it truly was the law of the jungle. Kill or be killed as road bandits and pirates often got away with murder. The English King did set up a Sheriff and Constable system around the time of the Magnacarta but that was more about enforcing the authority of the King than anything else. The Sheriffs certainly weren't the good guys either. See Robin hood vs the Sheriff of Nottingham. Medieval Kings were little more than petty tyrants.
So you are hoping there is someone in the area strong enough to do anything, hope that there is someone in the area that cares enough to risk themselves. Hope is not plan.
True, but the problem is, they don't want consensual PvP because then they won't have anyone to gank, therefore, they have to force it on everyone, but if they do that, all of the non-PvP or casual PvP people leave the game so they have to pretend they're cracking down on the worst offenders, without actually doing anything that will stop them from having their ganktastic fun.
Now personally, I'd never play a PvP-centric game at all, but if I did, I'd expect to be able to opt out of it entirely. If I couldn't do that, I'd never play at all.
Played: UO, EQ, WoW, DDO, SWG, AO, CoH, EvE, TR, AoC, GW, GA, Aion, Allods, lots more
Relatively Recently (Re)Played: HL2 (all), Halo (PC, all), Batman:AA; AC, ME, BS, DA, FO3, DS, Doom (all), LFD1&2, KOTOR, Portal 1&2, Blink, Elder Scrolls (all), lots more
Now Playing: None
Hope: None
It assumes the desire to PvP any time, all the time.
Good guy, bad guy, sure whatever. If you are fine with PvP any time, all the time. Most aren't fine with that.
Yeah .. but it is a fool's errand for them.
1) Devs clearly want the consensual pvpers as customers, so there are games with consensual pvp.
2) No one can force another play to play a game. Hence, none of the people who don't like forced pvp needs to participate.
At the end of the day, they can scream at the top of their lungs, and there is nothing they can do to me in games i play.
Who cares what you are playing...
You said it yourself, no one can forcé another player to play a game. So why are you whining that you got "ganked" if you choose to play a open world pvp full loot mmorpg?
Who said i am whining about anything? I just pointed out i don't have to whine since i can ignore all the open world pvp full loot game.
And at the same time, point out that those who like full loot pvp probably don't have many to play with, except each other.
Why? Because most players don't whine .. they vote with their feet.
And i thought you are the one who is whining .... no one likes ffa pvp ... cry cry.
LOL, so you are suggesting that pure PvE MMORPGs should never exist, because it is out of place. Got ya.
Everything should be Game of Thrones basically with a few changes,.
Most people would never play an open world PvP full loot MMORPG. This is a discussion about the possibility of police in such a game. I'd never actually play it and very few ever would. I don't ever get ganked because I don't ever play PvP. That doesn't mean I can't have opinions, and in an open forum, I am free to express them.
Played: UO, EQ, WoW, DDO, SWG, AO, CoH, EvE, TR, AoC, GW, GA, Aion, Allods, lots more
Relatively Recently (Re)Played: HL2 (all), Halo (PC, all), Batman:AA; AC, ME, BS, DA, FO3, DS, Doom (all), LFD1&2, KOTOR, Portal 1&2, Blink, Elder Scrolls (all), lots more
Now Playing: None
Hope: None
They have a double standard.
If they are whining about lack of games they like, it is ok.
If others dare to express a different preferences ... then you are committing heresy.
This brings to mind the social experimentation by Zimbardo, the Stanford prison experiment. If this thread is about actually giving peers authority over others, then this is just a terrible idea and that experiment proved it and has been amongst the most controversial social experiments.
Have you ever seen police in real life? I don't need something like that spoiling my experience in a game. Real life is already unfair enough, we can at least try to keep the MMO world balanced otherwise I would of just been a police officer in real life. No player should be able to maintain an amount of authority over others. Another way for the "elite players" in a game to control the environment over others.
The lucky thing is that this is just talk.
No one can force others to play an open world pvp game.
I voted other. I feel that the players that are PAYING to play a game with OW/PvP should enforce the rules THEY want. In EvE if you want to secure an area of 0.0 I don't need NPC sentries there. Besides, AI controlled police is either overwhelming (see:Concord) or like every other bot in a game, exploitable...see zap towers in DF1.
I don't have a problem with Concorde, bc they were in the game when I joined, so I never played EvE without them being there. I also know that they only provide consequence, not actually preventing anything. In that sense, they are like real police. If I call the cops right now bc someone is breaking in my house, they will get there in x amount of time. Many different outcomes can happen.
As a responsible gun owner, I provide my security for my family and me. I don't walk around with a gun, but in my state I am entitled to own a weapon for self defense. So as this relates to games I play, my guild/corp mates are my personal police. If someone is mining/gathering and they get attacked...we would stop what we are doing, and provide a response. This seems logical to me.
Should the AI/NPC's do that for us? I guess so, in context to the MECHANICS of that particular game. I recall non guilded players in DF1 who were friends with guilded ones attacking and killing nubs in cities bc the game mechanics were easily exploited.
So, should police exist? I say no, because that's my responsibility to my brothers/sisters in game. I don't really need the AI to do that for me.
Playing: BF4/BF:Hardline, Subnautica 7 days to die
Hiatus: EvE
Waiting on: World of Darkness(sigh)
Interested in: better games in general
for the life of me, I cant even think what OWPvP games the OP has ever played. in every single one of them I have tried,the existance of PKKers (player killers' killers) has been prevalent, both in isolation and in the form of organized guilds.
Actually I'd say that during the levelling process they are even more prevalent than PKers and the ratio doesnt even come close to balanced till endgame.
one too many times I have founnd myself going "red" in a game I played, and after 5 minuts of PvPing in an area of my level, some white knight double my level would come and hunt me down.
makes you wonder why the hell people cries all day long about OWPvP, when it usually is a lot more of an uphill battle for those of us that want to indulge in fair and square antagonizing.
Really you are going the play the "I was red the whole time" card. Leveling as a red, lol, who are you trying to kid.
No this is not for the hopeless people.
This is for the people will join the fight even when theres no hope.
So, did ESO have a successful launch? Yes, yes it did.By Ryan Getchell on April 02, 2014.
**On the radar: http://www.cyberpunk.net/ **
In that case, just better to have consensual pvp.
You play the bad hardcore bad guy and i play the good guy and i take you down.
Welcome aboard.
So, did ESO have a successful launch? Yes, yes it did.By Ryan Getchell on April 02, 2014.
**On the radar: http://www.cyberpunk.net/ **
So is this to be a just a RPing activity for PvPers (ie "cops and robbers") or is this system supposed to act as an incentive for non-PvPers to join the game?
If this is meant to attract the non-PvPers then the system needs to be seriously effective in discouraging most non-consensual PvP or it is nothing more than trying to attract vegeterians to your restaurant by praising the quality of the meat you serve.
RP is really a whole different can of worms. My approach to good RP is "I act as though I am what my character is". In my case of RPing a vigilante, it's less "cops and robbers" and more "ninjas and pirates". Again, that's just me. Golden rule of RP #2: never negate.
As far as avoiding PvP: this is relatively simple in the game I play, as it isn't hard to find an unoccupied corner of space and peace-ably do one's thing (or at least do one's thing in a PvE sort of way). This has more to do with the three-dimensionality of space than any sort of invisible barrier or rule.
"The simple is the seal of the true and beauty is the splendor of truth" -Subrahmanyan Chandrasekhar
Authored 139 missions in Vendetta Online and 6 tracks in Distance
I don't think you can attract non-PvPers with any sort of forced ow pvp system. They have plenty of other games to choose from. It is a lost cause.
I agree Bcbully it's getting ridiculous, it's like these people are on this site but not actually reading what's going on in the MMO world.
Everything the OP is asking for is already out there and it's the best system bar none.