Well yeah. Duh. I have been a Final Fantasy fan for 25 years. How long have you been a GW2 and TSW fan?
I'm surprised a FF fan doesn't understand the point here. AS FF has always been about good story presentation in the single-player world. Why would they drop the ball on that in an MMO? Why would they not carry that tradition over?
What game are you playing? My god the damn tutorial made more sense to me than any other tutorial in MMO history. Did anybody read the dialogue? See this happend in previous beta tests I have been in. People try to grind to max level(whatever that may be) before beta ends. Most people skip the story all togather just for the free company at level 20. Then they come here and whine to death that "I had to kill squirrels and it was not presented right." It was 1 quest. Thats all. It took me 1 minute to complete and I have never been back to kill another squirrel or "kittens and puppies". How about getting past the first quest in the game. The quest if you read the dialogue is to help you with the combat system. I played as a lancer and the dialogue was 1000x longer than the op posted. He just threw in what ever he thought it said. My "kill 3 squirrels" quest was about courage and being steadfast when facing an enemy and the dude talked for like 3 minutes about how to properly use a pole arm how we need courage and determination. But the op never added that huh? Nope he just skipped through whatever he thought was deemed necessary. I mean all quest givers give history and lore lessons. I have to admit they do like to talk! But the op is trolling and he is baiting you guy's and your falling into a trap. Why don't you guy's judge for yourselves and play the game. Everything is "presented and excuted with persicion". BTW I am a FF fan but I hated FF X-2 and all FF 13 games.
Yes I read the dialogue, I found it highly uninspiring in many places so far. The initial carriage ride wasn't so bad, nor the first meeting at the guild hall, dialogue between the Guard and the adventurers guild leader was okay. Yet once I started doing actual quests I felt a sudden drop in quality. I too am playing an archer and I too went through the dialogue leading up to the task and felt the same way as the OP about it.
The cutscenes have been too far removed from my experience thus far to give them much credit. I went the higlander path during phase three which I felt the same lack of substance in the quest build ups I was reading.
I'm all about story in games, if I can't connect to it I give up on it. I was planning on playing again today, yet I'm going to try the approach some have suggested, leave the story alone and just play. I just feel that may lead me right back to a certain Emu.
For every minute you are angry , you lose 60 seconds of happiness."-Emerson
Originally posted by Distopia Originally posted by Allacore69Originally posted by DistopiaOriginally posted by Allacore69
Well yeah. Duh. I have been a Final Fantasy fan for 25 years. How long have you been a GW2 and TSW fan? I'm surprised a FF fan doesn't understand the point here. AS FF has always been about good story presentation in the single-player world. Why would they drop the ball on that in an MMO? Why would they not carry that tradition over?What game are you playing? My god the damn tutorial made more sense to me than any other tutorial in MMO history. Did anybody read the dialogue? See this happend in previous beta tests I have been in. People try to grind to max level(whatever that may be) before beta ends. Most people skip the story all togather just for the free company at level 20. Then they come here and whine to death that "I had to kill squirrels and it was not presented right." It was 1 quest. Thats all. It took me 1 minute to complete and I have never been back to kill another squirrel or "kittens and puppies". How about getting past the first quest in the game. The quest if you read the dialogue is to help you with the combat system. I played as a lancer and the dialogue was 1000x longer than the op posted. He just threw in what ever he thought it said. My "kill 3 squirrels" quest was about courage and being steadfast when facing an enemy and the dude talked for like 3 minutes about how to properly use a pole arm how we need courage and determination. But the op never added that huh? Nope he just skipped through whatever he thought was deemed necessary. I mean all quest givers give history and lore lessons. I have to admit they do like to talk! But the op is trolling and he is baiting you guy's and your falling into a trap. Why don't you guy's judge for yourselves and play the game. Everything is "presented and excuted with persicion". BTW I am a FF fan but I hated FF X-2 and all FF 13 games. Yes I read the dialogue, I found it highly uninspiring in many places so far. The initial carriage ride wasn't so bad, nor the first meeting at the guild hall, dialogue between the Guard the adventurers guild leader was okay. Yet once I started doing actual quests I felt a sudden drop in quality. I too am playing an archer and I too went through the dialogue leading up to the task and felt the same way as the OP about it.
The cutscenes have been too far removed from my experience thus far to give them much credit. I went the higlander path during phase three which I felt the same lack of substance in the quest build ups I was reading.
I'm all about story in games, if I can't connect to it I give up on it. I was planning on playing again today, yet I'm going to try the approach some have suggested, leave the story alone and just play. I just feel that may lead me right back to a certain Emu.
I don't know how far you got but at level 12 the story is engaging and things pick up a lot. Maybe people do not have the patience to get to 10 before making a final decision about a game. It happans far too often and people get the wrong impression.
I'm surprised a FF fan doesn't understand the point here. AS FF has always been about good story presentation in the single-player world. Why would they drop the ball on that in an MMO? Why would they not carry that tradition over?
Where did they drop the ball? The main story is solid.
The general questing is not particularly engaging, but it's not mandatory, really. Vanilla WoW didn't have the most engaging questing system per se, but I loved it. It's really just there to give you experience. I personally found it all pretty well integrated into the game. Nothing felt wrong to me. Yeah, squirrels, but it's an FF game, they have a tendency to be weird like that.
The quests are mixed with leves, FATE's, dungeons, logs, and other ways to really just level your character, that's all it's there for... I think once people understand that, they'll have far less issues with it.
Some people prefer to level with dungeons, some like to grind, some like quests, some likes party grinding. This game gives you all of those options.
You said it right in the opening of your first paragraph, that's exactly where they dropped the ball (the questing presentation). The main story has been spread far to thin thus far to really gauge it's quality.
I'm the type who opts for the questing route, I gave up on mob grinding years ago.
For every minute you are angry , you lose 60 seconds of happiness."-Emerson
I don't know how far you got but at level 12 the story is engaging and things pick up a lot. Maybe people do not have the patience to get to 10 before making a final decision about a game. It happans far too often and people get the wrong impression.
IF I give up on the questing, will I still be able to jump back into it at later levels (when it becomes interesting)? or... will I have missed chains that lead into the next level ranges?
For every minute you are angry , you lose 60 seconds of happiness."-Emerson
Originally posted by Distopia Originally posted by Allacore69
I don't know how far you got but at level 12 the story is engaging and things pick up a lot. Maybe people do not have the patience to get to 10 before making a final decision about a game. It happans far too often and people get the wrong impression.IF I give up on the questing, will I still be able to jump back into it at later levels (when it becomes interesting)? or... will I have missed chains that lead into the next level ranges?
You can go right back dude. They said that questing and all quests will be availabe to all anytime they want experiance it.
The problem is that the mayority of people really dont bother to read the quests.
Remember auto assault ? The quest texts in this game were awesome, but nobody cared and the game went off after 2 month. Devs nowdays dont spend much money on writers.... look at GW2 , the story arcs looked like written by a child.
Originally posted by Mari2k The problem is that the mayority of people really dont bother to read the quests.Remember auto assault ? The quest texts in this game were awesome, but nobody cared and the game went off after 2 month. Devs nowdays dont spend much money on writers.... look at GW2 , the story arcs looked like written by a child.
Originally posted by saiweed I DONT SEE THE PROBLEM, if you kill dragons from the start, what will you kill at the end? a DRAAGOOON DRAAAGOOOON , king dragon dragon GOD it makes no sense, ofcourse you start of hunting bullshit animals , you are a NOOB you just begun lol god wtf do you people even know what u want
Originally posted by Mari2k The problem is that the mayority of people really dont bother to read the quests.
Remember auto assault ? The quest texts in this game were awesome, but nobody cared and the game went off after 2 month. Devs nowdays dont spend much money on writers.... look at GW2 , the story arcs looked like written by a child.
+1 LMAO so true!
This works for the game and against it. Cut scenes and text is exactly what FF is all about. I think it's in there because they are trying to stay true to their IP. But in the west, that may work against them. Not sure how the Japanese market will respond. But if you are a true FF fan, this should seem very familiar to you.
as far as the opening quests, they are dull, but if you are paying attention, they aren't just running you all over the place to occupy your time. They are sending you to all the important NPCs so you know who they are, where to find them, and why they are in the game. That is, of course, if you bother to read the text.
I'm no fan of GW2, but no... doesn't compare. If they had you running around capturing ladybugs and stealing squirrels stash or something... OK. But in FFXIV you are literally killing squirrels and Ladybugs. LADYBUGS.
Just read this, and I wanted to reply to you. So you are saying that these quests are weak and you want something more challenging right?
Well I think questing for exp is weak and the game should be more challenging and you should NOT be able to solo quest as a means of leveling up (maybe just as a storyline or for an epic set of gear at 50). So to you this easy mode squirrel killing is on the far right side of the spectrum. But actually, You are just one notch over but still on the far right of the spectrum demanding quests, just not as easy. I'm on the other side of the spectrum wanting no quests to exp up, but in stead group play as the main means of exp.
Just wanted to put things in perspective for you and all the other gamers demanding harder/more intricate solo quests. But, in reality, there is nothing intricate or hard about solo quests, at least that's what guys like me on this end of the spectrum think. Just a thought for you guys.
No. I'm saying killing squirrels and little ladybugs is ridiculous as an "adventurer". If we're going to stick with tired MmO tropes, atleast go with something like a giant rat, spider, wolf, etc... Not literally one of the most harmless insects in existence.
On next weeks episode, I'll explain how water is wet.
I'm no fan of GW2, but no... doesn't compare. If they had you running around capturing ladybugs and stealing squirrels stash or something... OK. But in FFXIV you are literally killing squirrels and Ladybugs. LADYBUGS.
Just read this, and I wanted to reply to you. So you are saying that these quests are weak and you want something more challenging right?
Well I think questing for exp is weak and the game should be more challenging and you should NOT be able to solo quest as a means of leveling up (maybe just as a storyline or for an epic set of gear at 50). So to you this easy mode squirrel killing is on the far right side of the spectrum. But actually, You are just one notch over but still on the far right of the spectrum demanding quests, just not as easy. I'm on the other side of the spectrum wanting no quests to exp up, but in stead group play as the main means of exp.
Just wanted to put things in perspective for you and all the other gamers demanding harder/more intricate solo quests. But, in reality, there is nothing intricate or hard about solo quests, at least that's what guys like me on this end of the spectrum think. Just a thought for you guys.
No. I'm saying killing squirrels and little ladybugs is ridiculous as an "adventurer". If we're going to stick with tired MmO tropes, atleast go with something like a giant rat, spider, wolf, etc... Not literally one of the most harmless insects in existence.
On next weeks episode, I'll explain how water is wet.
have you ever tried hitting a rabid squirrel with a bow and arrow?
or taking out a lady bug with a 2 handed sword?
these are true tests of accuracy and agile striking!
No. I'm saying killing squirrels and little ladybugs is ridiculous as an "adventurer". If we're going to stick with tired MmO tropes, atleast go with something like a giant rat, spider, wolf, etc... Not literally one of the most harmless insects in existence.
On next weeks episode, I'll explain how water is wet.
I'm pretty tired of spiders, giant rats and wolves myself. I didn't mind the lady bugs and squirrels. And they are gone after level 5.
as far as the opening quests, they are dull, but if you are paying attention, they aren't just running you all over the place to occupy your time. They are sending you to all the important NPCs so you know who they are, where to find them, and why they are in the game. That is, of course, if you bother to read the text.
This is true, I'll give you that. Not to say that it's fun to do at all, but it does serve a purpose.
For every minute you are angry , you lose 60 seconds of happiness."-Emerson
I don't care for the squirrel slaying part, what I don't understand from SquareEnix is why not go down the path of the turned based battle and random encounters that defined what Final Fantasy was all about since the end of the 80's up to FF10? They could of created a really unique MMORPG that would of most likely made ArcheAge wet it's pants. But no, they go down the WoW path, where the battle system is almost the same as every other MMO title released to date. My only hope for SquareEnix is if they ever release a new FF online title by 2020, I pray that it be a turned based battle system MMO with random encounters with pink puffs!!
No. I'm saying killing squirrels and little ladybugs is ridiculous as an "adventurer". If we're going to stick with tired MmO tropes, atleast go with something like a giant rat, spider, wolf, etc... Not literally one of the most harmless insects in existence.
On next weeks episode, I'll explain how water is wet.
I'm pretty tired of spiders, giant rats and wolves myself. I didn't mind the lady bugs and squirrels. And they are gone after level 5.
But what about mushroom? Not many games let you kill mushrooms.
For every minute you are angry , you lose 60 seconds of happiness."-Emerson
Originally posted by LeGrosGamer I don't care for the squirrel slaying part, what I don't understand from SquareEnix is why not go down the path of the turned based battle and random encounters that defined what Final Fantasy was all about since the end of the 80's up to FF10? They could of created a really unique MMORPG that would of most likely made ArcheAge wet it's pants. But no, they go down the WoW path, where the battle system is almost the same as every other MMO title released to date. My only hope for SquareEnix is if they ever release a new FF online title by 2020, I pray that it be a turned based battle system MMO with random encounters with pink puffs!!
Heh, you just reminded me how fun it was to play NWN2:SOZ with my wife.
For every minute you are angry , you lose 60 seconds of happiness."-Emerson
That's not really the point. I'm trying to approach the game in it's own merits, not judge it against anything else. And yes, I find GW2's noob areas lame as well.
Another question.... When can I stop delivering pies and actually, you know, slay those dreadful squirrels of doom?
Key word here: Context - in two aspects: Story/Setting and Gameplay/Tutorial
First the Story/Setting:
If you follow the quest and story dialog, you realize there are story-related reasons why they have you doing all that.
You arrive in your chosen city as a newbie. Sounds like you chose Gridania (good choice. Yes, I'm biased. I regret nothing).
No one knows you. They make it clear that - among the Woodwailers - you're not even trusted; they assume you're going to cause trouble. Mother Miounne has to reassure you that as time goes on, and as you gain the trust of the people, that distrust will go away and you'll come to be regarded as one of Gridania's own.
So, you're an outsider at the beginning. No one knows you. No one trusts you. Nor do they have reason to. You're a stranger, not a conquering hero. So, they start you off small and simple.
As you complete those simple, menial tasks, their trust in you grows, and so you're asked to take on bigger and more important tasks, involving bigger and more dangerous foes. They're not going to hit you with all their greatest woes when they barely even know your name.
Joining your chosen DoW/DoM guild is the same. You're a newbie. You have demonstrated no knowledge nor skill in the discipline you're seeking to learn. Hence they're going to start you off simple to make sure "you know which end of the lance to hold", and don't go killing yourself. So, yes, you'll be asked to kill squirrels...
And so on.
Then there's the Gameplay/Tutorial aspect, which is interwoven into the story/setting...
The beginning levels are not designed or intended for seasoned MMO players. They're designed and intended for brand-new MMO players; people who are unfamiliar with the mechanics of playing one. Hence, they're not going to throw you in at the deep end right off the bat. They're not going to throw everything the game offers at you right off the bat. That would just overwhelm and chase off new players... and that's not what SE (or any developer) is looking to do.
Seasoned players will get through those tasks quickly and be on to the more difficult and involved stuff. They do, however, help introduce new players (seasoned MMO gamers or otherwise) to the world and area they start in.
If you're a vet player, just realize that the early levels are not "all about you". They're about the new players for whom all that stuff isn't second-nature. It amazes me how many people, who claim to be seasoned MMO gamers, can't see past their own noses enough to realize this. Pretty much every MMO does this. No MMO - however "hardcore" - just throws you in at the deep end.
About the tutorial aspect...
Asking you to deliver a pie is both a gameplay/tutorial thing, and a story thing. You're being sent off to talk to this guy at the Markets who is notoriously grumpy. The way to cheer him up is to give him one of Miounne's famous eel pies. He, in turn, lightens up and introduces you to yet another new part of the game: "Where you can buy stuff". This brings the activity down to a "personal level", gives the characters a "life" and personality. It also is introducing you to a mechanic you'll be using throughout the game: Giving items to NPCs to complete a task (e.g. giving him the eel pie).
No one is asking you to go off doing this stuff "just because". Each task you're given will either introduce you to a new gameplay mechanic, or have you repeat things you already learned... .since repetition is an effective way to learn.
If you feel all that storyline is pointless 'cause you're not reading it, then you have to also acknowledge that it's your choice to approach it that way. Your lack of interest in following the story or setting does not constitute a flaw in the design.
In all.. It's absolutely ridiculous to complain that the starting levels of a MMO are "too simple" or "too repetitive" or "not challenging enough". The reasons for this are quite obvious and quite logical... to anyone who takes the 10 seconds required to stop and think about it.
Well yeah. Duh. I have been a Final Fantasy fan for 25 years. How long have you been a GW2 and TSW fan?
So your being fan for 25 years make your opinion more valid? i am not a fan of MMO genre and don't belong to any single MMO camp.
Neither do I. But yes it does make my opinion more valid. And if your not a fan of MMO's then why are you here on a website called "MMORPG.com"? Now see what you did? This is the definition of Troll+Hipster. Stop posting here if you do not like MMO's. If you don't like MMO's then do not come to a site called "MMORPG.com". Your trolling about something that is ancient and will never change. Wether it be rats, or republic soldiers, to "kittens", MMO's will never change. Get used to it. And btw, the op was commenting on ONE quest at the very beginning of the game that you NEVER have to do again. Go kill your 3 squirrels and get on with the game. It does get hella better after level 5 (like all mmo's when you get past the learning basics).
Its always a good thing to re read a post before getting all worked up. I made a typo which i edited in few seconds. The 'not' part was a typo.
Now take a deep breathe.
As far as questing progression goes you only move on to bigger monsters but the generic quest tasks are still there. That is the reason why questing feels bland. It is as if devs while taking inspiration from WOW just ended up copy pasting their go kill 'x' and collect 'y' tasks into FFXIV without any thought of their own.
So comparing the "Best MMO of All Time" (I did not like it) is a bad thing? The game has 5x more subscribers than any MMO out there. Your point is invalid.
No it is only a bad thing when it doesn't suit our argument.
"The problem is that the hardcore folks always want the same thing: 'We want exactly what you gave us before, but it has to be completely different.' -Jesse Schell
"Online gamers are the most ludicrously entitled beings since Caligula made his horse a senator, and at least the horse never said anything stupid." -Luke McKinney
Originally posted by LeGrosGamer I don't care for the squirrel slaying part, what I don't understand from SquareEnix is why not go down the path of the turned based battle and random encounters that defined what Final Fantasy was all about since the end of the 80's up to FF10? They could of created a really unique MMORPG that would of most likely made ArcheAge wet it's pants. But no, they go down the WoW path, where the battle system is almost the same as every other MMO title released to date. My only hope for SquareEnix is if they ever release a new FF online title by 2020, I pray that it be a turned based battle system MMO with random encounters with pink puffs!!
That would be way too niche for an MMO. It would cater to ONLY Final Fantasy fans and that's not what they would want. MMOs cost multiple times the amount of a single player rpg and they need to sell a lot more units that those single player games to make up for that. While I agree that I would have fun with a turn based random battle system in an MMO, the majority of MMO players would hate it and they would not sell the game.
In all.. It's absolutely ridiculous to complain that the starting levels of a MMO are "too simple" or "too repetitive" or "not challenging enough". The reasons for this are quite obvious and quite logical... to anyone who takes the 10 seconds required to stop and think about it.
How is it ridiculous to complain about something you're not enjoying?
You broke down the picture fairly well on what is going on, but that's fairly obvious from the get go, as it plays out right in front of you. That breakdown doesn't excuse the lack of soul in a lot of the dialogue. You're acting as though the only way to ease someone into the experience is to offer soulless filler, which it's not.
For every minute you are angry , you lose 60 seconds of happiness."-Emerson
Originally posted by agnostic4eve Don't get me wrong, I'm honestly giving this game a try and approaching it with a very open mind. It however is hard to maintain that perspective when Boiselont of the Lancer's guild is also having a squirrel problem.
What I want to know is did the squirrels have any special moves , and did they provide a death threatening challenge....
________________________________________________________ Sorcery must persist, the future is the Citadel
Originally posted by agnostic4eve Don't get me wrong, I'm honestly giving this game a try and approaching it with a very open mind. It however is hard to maintain that perspective when Boiselont of the Lancer's guild is also having a squirrel problem.
What I want to know is did the squirrels have any special moves , and did they provide a death threatening challenge....
They are only a danger if you have a male avatar. They go for your nuts...
Originally posted by agnostic4eve Don't get me wrong, I'm honestly giving this game a try and approaching it with a very open mind. It however is hard to maintain that perspective when Boiselont of the Lancer's guild is also having a squirrel problem.
What I want to know is did the squirrels have any special moves , and did they provide a death threatening challenge....
No
For every minute you are angry , you lose 60 seconds of happiness."-Emerson
In all.. It's absolutely ridiculous to complain that the starting levels of a MMO are "too simple" or "too repetitive" or "not challenging enough". The reasons for this are quite obvious and quite logical... to anyone who takes the 10 seconds required to stop and think about it.
How is it ridiculous to complain about something you're not enjoying?
You broke down the picture fairly well on what is going on, but that's fairly obvious from the get go, as it plays out right in front of you. That breakdown doesn't excuse the lack of soul in a lot of the dialogue. You're acting as though the only way to ease someone into the experience is to offer soulless filler, which it's not.
You say I paint a good picture of what's going on... yet still manage to completely miss (ignore?) the specific complaints/arguments I'm addressing with it.
All you're doing in your post is tossing hastily thrown-together strawmen at me. You've given me nothing worth responding to... Try asking questions relevant to what I'm addressing, and we can have a discussion.
To touch on one key thing you said though: That you find the dialog "soulless" is your own subjective view of it, and you're certainly free to express that opinion. However, it does not constitute a "design flaw". Others, myself included, find the dialog lively and interesting.
Comments
Yes I read the dialogue, I found it highly uninspiring in many places so far. The initial carriage ride wasn't so bad, nor the first meeting at the guild hall, dialogue between the Guard and the adventurers guild leader was okay. Yet once I started doing actual quests I felt a sudden drop in quality. I too am playing an archer and I too went through the dialogue leading up to the task and felt the same way as the OP about it.
The cutscenes have been too far removed from my experience thus far to give them much credit. I went the higlander path during phase three which I felt the same lack of substance in the quest build ups I was reading.
I'm all about story in games, if I can't connect to it I give up on it. I was planning on playing again today, yet I'm going to try the approach some have suggested, leave the story alone and just play. I just feel that may lead me right back to a certain Emu.
For every minute you are angry , you lose 60 seconds of happiness."-Emerson
I'm surprised a FF fan doesn't understand the point here. AS FF has always been about good story presentation in the single-player world. Why would they drop the ball on that in an MMO? Why would they not carry that tradition over?
What game are you playing? My god the damn tutorial made more sense to me than any other tutorial in MMO history. Did anybody read the dialogue? See this happend in previous beta tests I have been in. People try to grind to max level(whatever that may be) before beta ends. Most people skip the story all togather just for the free company at level 20. Then they come here and whine to death that "I had to kill squirrels and it was not presented right." It was 1 quest. Thats all. It took me 1 minute to complete and I have never been back to kill another squirrel or "kittens and puppies". How about getting past the first quest in the game. The quest if you read the dialogue is to help you with the combat system. I played as a lancer and the dialogue was 1000x longer than the op posted. He just threw in what ever he thought it said. My "kill 3 squirrels" quest was about courage and being steadfast when facing an enemy and the dude talked for like 3 minutes about how to properly use a pole arm how we need courage and determination. But the op never added that huh? Nope he just skipped through whatever he thought was deemed necessary. I mean all quest givers give history and lore lessons. I have to admit they do like to talk! But the op is trolling and he is baiting you guy's and your falling into a trap. Why don't you guy's judge for yourselves and play the game. Everything is "presented and excuted with persicion". BTW I am a FF fan but I hated FF X-2 and all FF 13 games.
Yes I read the dialogue, I found it highly uninspiring in many places so far. The initial carriage ride wasn't so bad, nor the first meeting at the guild hall, dialogue between the Guard the adventurers guild leader was okay. Yet once I started doing actual quests I felt a sudden drop in quality. I too am playing an archer and I too went through the dialogue leading up to the task and felt the same way as the OP about it.
The cutscenes have been too far removed from my experience thus far to give them much credit. I went the higlander path during phase three which I felt the same lack of substance in the quest build ups I was reading.
I'm all about story in games, if I can't connect to it I give up on it. I was planning on playing again today, yet I'm going to try the approach some have suggested, leave the story alone and just play. I just feel that may lead me right back to a certain Emu.
I don't know how far you got but at level 12 the story is engaging and things pick up a lot. Maybe people do not have the patience to get to 10 before making a final decision about a game. It happans far too often and people get the wrong impression.
You said it right in the opening of your first paragraph, that's exactly where they dropped the ball (the questing presentation). The main story has been spread far to thin thus far to really gauge it's quality.
I'm the type who opts for the questing route, I gave up on mob grinding years ago.
For every minute you are angry , you lose 60 seconds of happiness."-Emerson
IF I give up on the questing, will I still be able to jump back into it at later levels (when it becomes interesting)? or... will I have missed chains that lead into the next level ranges?
For every minute you are angry , you lose 60 seconds of happiness."-Emerson
IF I give up on the questing, will I still be able to jump back into it at later levels (when it becomes interesting)? or... will I have missed chains that lead into the next level ranges?
You can go right back dude. They said that questing and all quests will be availabe to all anytime they want experiance it.
The problem is that the mayority of people really dont bother to read the quests.
Remember auto assault ? The quest texts in this game were awesome, but nobody cared and the game went off after 2 month. Devs nowdays dont spend much money on writers.... look at GW2 , the story arcs looked like written by a child.
+1 LMAO so true!
lmmfao. ^^^^^^^ This is pure win.
This works for the game and against it. Cut scenes and text is exactly what FF is all about. I think it's in there because they are trying to stay true to their IP. But in the west, that may work against them. Not sure how the Japanese market will respond. But if you are a true FF fan, this should seem very familiar to you.
as far as the opening quests, they are dull, but if you are paying attention, they aren't just running you all over the place to occupy your time. They are sending you to all the important NPCs so you know who they are, where to find them, and why they are in the game. That is, of course, if you bother to read the text.
No. I'm saying killing squirrels and little ladybugs is ridiculous as an "adventurer". If we're going to stick with tired MmO tropes, atleast go with something like a giant rat, spider, wolf, etc... Not literally one of the most harmless insects in existence.
On next weeks episode, I'll explain how water is wet.
have you ever tried hitting a rabid squirrel with a bow and arrow?
or taking out a lady bug with a 2 handed sword?
these are true tests of accuracy and agile striking!
I'm pretty tired of spiders, giant rats and wolves myself. I didn't mind the lady bugs and squirrels. And they are gone after level 5.
This is true, I'll give you that. Not to say that it's fun to do at all, but it does serve a purpose.
For every minute you are angry , you lose 60 seconds of happiness."-Emerson
But what about mushroom? Not many games let you kill mushrooms.
For every minute you are angry , you lose 60 seconds of happiness."-Emerson
Heh, you just reminded me how fun it was to play NWN2:SOZ with my wife.
For every minute you are angry , you lose 60 seconds of happiness."-Emerson
Key word here: Context - in two aspects: Story/Setting and Gameplay/Tutorial
First the Story/Setting:
If you follow the quest and story dialog, you realize there are story-related reasons why they have you doing all that.
You arrive in your chosen city as a newbie. Sounds like you chose Gridania (good choice. Yes, I'm biased. I regret nothing).
No one knows you. They make it clear that - among the Woodwailers - you're not even trusted; they assume you're going to cause trouble. Mother Miounne has to reassure you that as time goes on, and as you gain the trust of the people, that distrust will go away and you'll come to be regarded as one of Gridania's own.
So, you're an outsider at the beginning. No one knows you. No one trusts you. Nor do they have reason to. You're a stranger, not a conquering hero. So, they start you off small and simple.
As you complete those simple, menial tasks, their trust in you grows, and so you're asked to take on bigger and more important tasks, involving bigger and more dangerous foes. They're not going to hit you with all their greatest woes when they barely even know your name.
Joining your chosen DoW/DoM guild is the same. You're a newbie. You have demonstrated no knowledge nor skill in the discipline you're seeking to learn. Hence they're going to start you off simple to make sure "you know which end of the lance to hold", and don't go killing yourself. So, yes, you'll be asked to kill squirrels...
And so on.
Then there's the Gameplay/Tutorial aspect, which is interwoven into the story/setting...
The beginning levels are not designed or intended for seasoned MMO players. They're designed and intended for brand-new MMO players; people who are unfamiliar with the mechanics of playing one. Hence, they're not going to throw you in at the deep end right off the bat. They're not going to throw everything the game offers at you right off the bat. That would just overwhelm and chase off new players... and that's not what SE (or any developer) is looking to do.
Seasoned players will get through those tasks quickly and be on to the more difficult and involved stuff. They do, however, help introduce new players (seasoned MMO gamers or otherwise) to the world and area they start in.
If you're a vet player, just realize that the early levels are not "all about you". They're about the new players for whom all that stuff isn't second-nature. It amazes me how many people, who claim to be seasoned MMO gamers, can't see past their own noses enough to realize this. Pretty much every MMO does this. No MMO - however "hardcore" - just throws you in at the deep end.
About the tutorial aspect...
Asking you to deliver a pie is both a gameplay/tutorial thing, and a story thing. You're being sent off to talk to this guy at the Markets who is notoriously grumpy. The way to cheer him up is to give him one of Miounne's famous eel pies. He, in turn, lightens up and introduces you to yet another new part of the game: "Where you can buy stuff". This brings the activity down to a "personal level", gives the characters a "life" and personality. It also is introducing you to a mechanic you'll be using throughout the game: Giving items to NPCs to complete a task (e.g. giving him the eel pie).
No one is asking you to go off doing this stuff "just because". Each task you're given will either introduce you to a new gameplay mechanic, or have you repeat things you already learned... .since repetition is an effective way to learn.
If you feel all that storyline is pointless 'cause you're not reading it, then you have to also acknowledge that it's your choice to approach it that way. Your lack of interest in following the story or setting does not constitute a flaw in the design.
In all.. It's absolutely ridiculous to complain that the starting levels of a MMO are "too simple" or "too repetitive" or "not challenging enough". The reasons for this are quite obvious and quite logical... to anyone who takes the 10 seconds required to stop and think about it.
No it is only a bad thing when it doesn't suit our argument.
"The problem is that the hardcore folks always want the same thing: 'We want exactly what you gave us before, but it has to be completely different.'
-Jesse Schell
"Online gamers are the most ludicrously entitled beings since Caligula made his horse a senator, and at least the horse never said anything stupid."
-Luke McKinney
That would be way too niche for an MMO. It would cater to ONLY Final Fantasy fans and that's not what they would want. MMOs cost multiple times the amount of a single player rpg and they need to sell a lot more units that those single player games to make up for that. While I agree that I would have fun with a turn based random battle system in an MMO, the majority of MMO players would hate it and they would not sell the game.
How is it ridiculous to complain about something you're not enjoying?
You broke down the picture fairly well on what is going on, but that's fairly obvious from the get go, as it plays out right in front of you. That breakdown doesn't excuse the lack of soul in a lot of the dialogue. You're acting as though the only way to ease someone into the experience is to offer soulless filler, which it's not.
For every minute you are angry , you lose 60 seconds of happiness."-Emerson
What I want to know is did the squirrels have any special moves , and did they provide a death threatening challenge....
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Sorcery must persist, the future is the Citadel
They are only a danger if you have a male avatar. They go for your nuts...
No
For every minute you are angry , you lose 60 seconds of happiness."-Emerson
You say I paint a good picture of what's going on... yet still manage to completely miss (ignore?) the specific complaints/arguments I'm addressing with it.
All you're doing in your post is tossing hastily thrown-together strawmen at me. You've given me nothing worth responding to... Try asking questions relevant to what I'm addressing, and we can have a discussion.
To touch on one key thing you said though: That you find the dialog "soulless" is your own subjective view of it, and you're certainly free to express that opinion. However, it does not constitute a "design flaw". Others, myself included, find the dialog lively and interesting.
I am glad WoW never did that to its players.
Right off the bat you are killing deadly kobolds and wolves.